All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

Can old, non-core series games with competitive potential be discussed in this subforum? I was referred here when asking the same question in OI.
 

Oglemi

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Can old, non-core series games with competitive potential be discussed in this subforum? I was referred here when asking the same question in OI.
No, this is core series only. Conquest was a fun game and worth exploring in some aspect competitively for sure, but I don't know that there's a place for it here on smogon. Try talking to one of the OI moderators in PM and see if they'll give it a go, otherwise i'm afraid not.
 
Going back to my previous question (sorry for all the questions lol) why was Blissey often used over Chansey back in the day? Was it not obvious that Chansey was superior in basically every way except the passable special attack from Blissey?
 

Merritt

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Going back to my previous question (sorry for all the questions lol) why was Blissey often used over Chansey back in the day? Was it not obvious that Chansey was superior in basically every way except the passable special attack from Blissey?
You'll have to define "back in the day" to really get a good answer. In gens 2-4 the answer should be obvious - Blissey was the objectively superior choice due to its higher stats everywhere and the lack of Eviolite.

In early gen 5 the usual reasoning was the lack of Leftovers on Chansey allowed it to get chipped down in longer games vs sand or hail.
 
You'll have to define "back in the day" to really get a good answer. In gens 2-4 the answer should be obvious - Blissey was the objectively superior choice due to its higher stats everywhere and the lack of Eviolite.

In early gen 5 the usual reasoning was the lack of Leftovers on Chansey allowed it to get chipped down in longer games vs sand or hail.
Shouldve specified gen 5, sorry
 
Are there any ways to check usage stats in old metagames like adv ou and dpp ou? I did a quick search on the forums but all I saw was gen 7 and tournament usage stats.
 

Excal

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Are there any ways to check usage stats in old metagames like adv ou and dpp ou? I did a quick search on the forums but all I saw was gen 7 and tournament usage stats.
Yup their is, they are right here.
Also, you could check out the usage stats for old gens in major tournaments like Smogon Premier League and World Cup of Pokemon. Links here:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spl-x-weekly-usage-stats.3646001/ - SPL
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-world-cup-of-pokémon-2019-usage-stats.3650301/ - WCoP

Other smaller team tournaments like RoAPL also may feature some usage stats for Old Gens if you're interested as well.
 
Why is Regice still OU in ADV/RSE when it's in a similar situation as Raikou right now? Are tiers going to update for other generations, like maybe DPP Electivire drops to UU?
Also I know this question has been asked hundreds of times already, but what happens when people play GSC without Snorlax? Is that metagame "less healthy" than standard GSC? Does another Pokemon become the S+ ?
 

Excal

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Why is Regice still OU in ADV/RSE when it's in a similar situation as Raikou right now? Are tiers going to update for other generations, like maybe DPP Electivire drops to UU?
Also I know this question has been asked hundreds of times already, but what happens when people play GSC without Snorlax? Is that metagame "less healthy" than standard GSC? Does another Pokemon become the S+ ?
I think Moltres going to OU and Raikou going to BL is a sign that changes like this will happen in the near future, so maybe Regice will be looked at soon. In DPP they may very well update, but if they do it would only be OU and BL mons shifting into OU or BL. Lower tiers like UU and NU will not be disrupted in that process, which is why Nidoqueen and Clefable cannot rise up to OU, for example.

I'll let someone else answer your last question with more detail since I have not played OU without Snorlax, but one thing I would assume is that Zapdos and Raikou would become significantly better because Snorlax is one of the main soft answers to each. Raikou would be used more because Zapdos is just that powerful/threatening, and Zapdos without Snorlax will probably be the strongest Pokemon in the tier. Those are just some small assumptions, though. There is probably more information on GSC OU no Snorlax in the forums somewhere.
 
I'm going to ask here at the risk of looking like I don't know Gen I, because I thought I remembered everything about its mechanics.

The part of this image that's relevant is turn 102: how did this happen? Why did Exeggutor move first?
186987


In case the image is no longer available:
Tauros and Eggy are both Paralyzed. Eggy is in kill range of hyper beam, so I go for the move and miss. Then it moves first on the next turn and gets the kill. Why did eggy move first?
 

Excal

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I'm going to ask here at the risk of looking like I don't know Gen I, because I thought I remembered everything about its mechanics.

The part of this image that's relevant is turn 102: how did this happen? Why did Exeggutor move first?
View attachment 186987

In case the image is no longer available:
Tauros and Eggy are both Paralyzed. Eggy is in kill range of hyper beam, so I go for the move and miss. Then it moves first on the next turn and gets the kill. Why did eggy move first?
It's because Tauros received a Special drop, which reapplies the paralysis, making Exeggutor faster. It's a very weird mechanic that is exclusive to RBY.
 
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Possibly somewhat related to the previous issue, with RBY stat mechanics. On cartridge, I have experienced that using Double Team seems to make the Attack stat rise as well. What is the explanation behind this?
 
Possibly somewhat related to the previous issue, with RBY stat mechanics. On cartridge, I have experienced that using Double Team seems to make the Attack stat rise as well. What is the explanation behind this?
Since evasion moves are banned from competitive game I haven't check how Double Team works with stat modifications but should be same as any other stats modificator move.

Check this for more information about stat modification errors aswell as this video from Crystal_.
 
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In what games can sleep talk call disabled moves? Bulbapedia's disable page says it's been able to since GSC, but sleep talk's page says it couldn't until BW.
 
How is the size of the BL banlist for ADV almost as big as the UU tier itself, how is this justified, and has it ever ben considered to make a concerted effort to reintroduce mons from BL into UU to promote the diversity of the tier?
 
How is the size of the BL banlist for ADV almost as big as the UU tier itself, how is this justified, and has it ever ben considered to make a concerted effort to reintroduce mons from BL into UU to promote the diversity of the tier?
Back then, we didn't have usage statistics so making tiers was a heavily arbitrary decision based on each pokemon's usage and all-around usefulness in the metagame. At some point the standard UU power level (let's call it that) was set around metagame staples like Electabuzz/Scyther/Vileplume/Fearow/Golem/Hypno, of course this was completely arbitrary.
BL was basically the UU banlist, and it included mons like Alakazam, Dodrio or Rhydon which were definitely not OU, but deemed "too strong" for the perceived UU metagame power level.
Some tournaments around 2003-2004 (for example Summer Freedom) had a weird format where you could use one BL in your UU team. In the following years there was much debate on this issue, by late RSE it was settled that BLs were completely banned.

Basically people really liked playing Fearow and Golem so Dodrio and Rhydon were banned because of that.

AFAIK Kangaskhan evaded the banlist and remained in UU forever, despite it being the most powerful mon in the meta.
Smogon Dex said:
UUBL (UnderUsed Banlist) is the banlist for UU and is generally not a playable tier. UUBL was determined by community consensus at the time that ADV was the current generation as comprised of Pokemon that were "Borderline Standard" (Standard being the old name for "OU"). They were in effect Pokemon that were "usable" to a degree in OU, but "not quite there" as Pokemon that were consistent enough to be considered "standard."
And as far as I know, reviewing the banlist has been suggested a few times, but nobody cares enough to make it really happen. Several people think we have enough BL Pokemon to make a playable tier between OU and UU, and such BL players already have our own thread and Discord.
 
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Huh, it seems completely antithetical to the system of tiering that was established by DPP and beyond. Really, really strange, and in some ways a real shame.

Although justifying things by an objective standard might be an anachronism for the metas of those days. Hell I love GSC OU, and you can't justify Snorlax's inclusion based on an objective evaluation of power levels when comparing Lax to other banned mons. The "original" old gens are just weird, I guess. :)
 
Hey, I've been mulling this over for a few hours now and I decided to bring it up here to a bigger audience in hopes that I may find a concise answer.

Why is auto hail, namely the ability Snow Warning, banned in BW UU. It seems like an unnecessary complex ban when Abomasnow could just be moved up to BW OU. Additionally, this has effected non-official lower tiers. I understand these lower tiers do not affect the decision whatsoever. I just want an explanation as to why Snow Warning is banned.
 

kjdaas

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Hey, I've been mulling this over for a few hours now and I decided to bring it up here to a bigger audience in hopes that I may find a concise answer.

Why is auto hail, namely the ability Snow Warning, banned in BW UU. It seems like an unnecessary complex ban when Abomasnow could just be moved up to BW OU. Additionally, this has effected non-official lower tiers. I understand these lower tiers do not affect the decision whatsoever. I just want an explanation as to why Snow Warning is banned.
After going through both the old UU forum (see thread cryonics) and the Policy review subforum, this is what I could find:

In the early stages of BW UU, Snow Warning was banned due to its interaction with Snow Cloak but was later unbanned because it was found to be not broken anymore in stage 10. In stage 13 Froslass was banned due to snow cloak again, which was the last suspect test of the BW UU with Victini. It was then almost a year after XY came around, that is was voted on again (see this for all the explanation), because hail was considered broken. One could argue that Abomasnow was the only problem and just having Snover could be fine, which some of the voters did, but reading through the posts it seems that most of the voters found hail itself broken. To be more precise, it is more hails interaction with some powerful breakers, for example Nidoking, Rotom-F and Jynx, and with some more stally mons, see Walrein, that was broken, then it was Abomasnow himself.

I was not around when BW was the main gen, so I could have missed somethings but this seems to be the reason.
 
In ADV OU, if im running sd heracross with 3 attacks, is it viable to run jolly? Ive seen there are lots of pokemon that try to speed creep adamant heracross, and thus would get outsped by jolly.
 

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