Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - VGC edition

[CCM30]

I'm having second thoughts about my lead right now. Currently, on my team of Mewtwo, Weavile, Palkia and Metagross, my lead is Mew2/Weavile, but I'm wondering if I should change that.

Weavile's main usage is FO...and that's really it. My team seems to have slight problems with defending against weather or sleep or whatnot...essentially, early-game setups. That's why I had Weavile to use Fake Out to get an extra turn in for Mewtwo to immediately do damage, but it doesn't work all the time and Weavile is so god damn frail, even if he has priority.

Should I keep Weavile as a lead with Mewtwo or switch to something more beneficial? If so, whom?

 

[NjSoccer]

I'm having second thoughts about my lead right now. Currently, on my team of Mewtwo, Weavile, Palkia and Metagross, my lead is Mew2/Weavile, but I'm wondering if I should change that.

Weavile's main usage is FO...and that's really it. My team seems to have slight problems with defending against weather or sleep or whatnot...essentially, early-game setups. That's why I had Weavile to use Fake Out to get an extra turn in for Mewtwo to immediately do damage, but it doesn't work all the time and Weavile is so god damn frail, even if he has priority.

Should I keep Weavile as a lead with Mewtwo or switch to something more beneficial? If so, whom?

I'll leave Mewtwo up to someone else, but i would say deff keep Weavile. With being the fastest Fake Out'er in VGC, him and its companion can be a deadly duo. Also, you tend to see a lot of stuff that takes super effective hits from ghost/dark types. Night Slash can be a great assistance here, and then ice shard can be a good priority move for enemy sashers.

 

[Dave [old]]

You will not get banned for having clones. Last year everyone used the Shiny Metagross BlakChrome it seems like. Also about Abomasnow, heat wave will almost definately kill it with 4x damage, but there is no way the Zapdos will kill it with Thunder, even with a crit and stab.

I meant Thunder and then as a separate thought Heat Wave for Abomasnow. Thunder would be there for huge damage against Kyogre and a generally powerful STAB.

Icy Vegeta, it looks cool, but wouldn't most Garchomps at the VGC be Yache and therefore survive the Ice Punch a good sum of the time? Also, how well does it take hits itself? It would speed tie with fellow Bulk Up Mewtwos, however in the VGC speed tiers are all over the place. Trick Room is always rampant, but then there are also the Swift Swimmers and Chlorophyll users.

 

[Noxe]

While mewtwo is somewhat bulky, it's not going to be able to stand up to some of the heavier Special hitters in the metagame. TR Dialga, and Modest Palkia both have a chance to 1 shot it while your boosting with draco meteor, so basically any spread attack after that and its bye mewtwo. Gengar and Mewtwo, both have a chance to 1 Shot it with shadow ball. Kyogre and Palkia's Hydro pump in rain will one shot it. Its a good idea, but you could use a broader moveset and get the same damage results.

 

[Werecario]

Not to mention a well placed sucker punch from a dark pokemon like absol, honchkrow, or shiftry can take off about 50% of your hp with the bulk up def boost. Add that to whatever hits you take while doing bulk up or if double teamed by both opponents. Its not very common but it is definitely something to keep in mind.

 

[Werecario]

Any thoughts on how to counter a trick room dialga and follow me smeargle combo to prevent the TR from even being activated. All I can think of is ohkoing the smeargle and then ohkoing the dialga.

 

[Noxe]

*edit*
sry, thinking wrong thing.

You could try something with Imprison thats faster than Dialga that can learn TR. Azelf is what comes to mind off the top of my head. Imprison TR and protect, and then you can explode on teams with protect as well.

 

[Werecario]

yeah thats true. I also thought of leading ambipom and double hitting the smeargle to kill it even if it is sashed. Then someone can fake out or kill dialga. Double hit and taunt works also. Idk the best way I can think of countering a TR team is by being one...

 

[Noxe]

yeah thats true. That plan fails when a TR dusknoir is sent out instead. I also thought of leading ambipom and double hitting the smeargle to kill it even if it is sashed. Then someone can fake out or kill dialga. Double hit and taunt works also. Idk the best way I can think of countering a TR team is by being one...

Or have a poke, that completely turns the TR around on them. Anything that has a fighting move with Iron Ball can cause problems for TR Dialga, and pretty much anything else that does well in TR. Them getting TR up isn't the end of the game, especially if you play it smart and out last the TR. It's not uncommon for this to happen.

 

[theamericandream38]

Any thoughts on how to counter a trick room dialga and follow me smeargle combo to prevent the TR from even being activated. All I can think of is ohkoing the smeargle and then ohkoing the dialga.

Using Trick Room with your own pokemon (the battlefield will be reset to normal dimensions), using Imprison with your pokemon that knows Trick Room, and OHKOing the Dialga are, as far as I know, the only possible ways to do it.

 

[jmon]

if someone switches in a pokemon with a weather effect, will a pokemon ability(swift swim/chlorophyll) activate that turn or will it get the speed boost next turn?

 

[ΩDonut]

if someone switches in a pokemon with a weather effect, will a pokemon ability(swift swim/chlorophyll) activate that turn or will it get the speed boost next turn?

Next turn.

 

[CCM30]

While mewtwo is somewhat bulky, it's not going to be able to stand up to some of the heavier Special hitters in the metagame. TR Dialga, and Modest Palkia both have a chance to 1 shot it while your boosting with draco meteor, so basically any spread attack after that and its bye mewtwo. Gengar and Mewtwo, both have a chance to 1 Shot it with shadow ball. Kyogre and Palkia's Hydro pump in rain will one shot it. Its a good idea, but you could use a broader moveset and get the same damage results.

Hmmm, interesting. My Mewtwo has always done fine for me. I don't boost with him, I just immediately attack.

Though, I have no idea who I'd replace him with.

 

[Noxe]

Hmmm, interesting. My Mewtwo has always done fine for me. I don't boost with him, I just immediately attack.

Though, I have no idea who I'd replace him with.

Mewtwo does hold his own just fine..... when hes attacking. Hes suggesting using a turn he could be attacking with mewtwo boosting stats that wouldn't necesarily help it much. Bulk up raises physical defense which is used much less in this metagame. Thats why alot of EV sets you see on VGC pokemon this year are special oriented. A physical mewtwo can 1 shot Chople Tyranitar, great, but all the other numbers a special mewtwo can pull off the same amount of power, without wasting a turn to boost its stats. Grass knot takes care of palkia and kyogre, and pretty much OHKOs 252HP Gdon. Blizzard takes care of dragons. While u can grab aura sphere for dialga and tyranitar. Granted aura sphere won't 1 shot a chople tar, but you wont waste a turn boosting with the chance of being attacked on the same turn.

 

[FMasamune]

*edit*
sry, thinking wrong thing.

You could try something with Imprison thats faster than Dialga that can learn TR. Azelf is what comes to mind off the top of my head. Imprison TR and protect, and then you can explode on teams with protect as well.

The only issues with this set is when Azelf gets Fake Outed first turn, they can set up TR and you're pretty much screwed. Also Mewtwo should definately stay Special IMO. It is pretty much the hardest hitter in the VGC Metagame. Running with lifeorb, you can do massive damage to anything in your way, plus the people above me are underestimating his defenses. 90 base defense, and special defense isn't really anything to laugh at. Plus if you run bulk up, your defenses will go higher but the majority Pokemon in the Metagame are Special. So I don't really see what the point is in wasting a turn.

 

[Werecario]

Or have a poke, that completely turns the TR around on them. Anything that has a fighting move with Iron Ball can cause problems for TR Dialga, and pretty much anything else that does well in TR. Them getting TR up isn't the end of the game, especially if you play it smart and out last the TR. It's not uncommon for this to happen.

A TR team with dialga and smeargle with kyogre as back up is common. My team can ko smeargle easy and can survive even a choice specs kyogre for one hit and bring it down enough to not do much damage with water spout. Im pretty sure I can wait out any TR team and as long as I ko Dialga then I don't have to worry about another TR being activated. Protects help as well of course. What is the most common TR team? Was I right when I said Dialga, smeargle, kyogre and someone else, possibly like machamp or Cresselia? I'm doing damage calc for possible teams and even youtube teams and I found out TR was my biggest threat so any and all info on common pokemon in them would be great.

 

[Noxe]

A TR team with dialga and smeargle with kyogre as back up is common. My team can ko smeargle easy and can survive even a choice specs kyogre for one hit and bring it down enough to not do much damage with water spout. Im pretty sure I can wait out any TR team and as long as I ko Dialga then I don't have to worry about another TR being activated. Protects help as well of course. What is the most common TR team? Was I right when I said Dialga, smeargle, kyogre and someone else, possibly like machamp or Cresselia? I'm doing damage calc for possible teams and even youtube teams and I found out TR was my biggest threat so any and all info on common pokemon in them would be great.

Most of the Japanese videos of the VGC you will see TR Dialga. Just to give you an example.

Japanese tournament matches:
Hyogo Finals - Rain + TR Zong vs Rain + TR Dialga
Yamaga Semifinals - Mixed Weather vs Scarfed Tina Beatdown
Ehime Finals - Hail + TR Dialga vs Scarfed Ogre Beatdown
Tiba Finals - Scarfgle + Sand Vs Hail Beatdown
Oita Finals - Rain Beatdown Vs Sand + TR(Zong and Dialga)
Tokyo Finals - Pure Beatdown Vs Mixed Weather + TR Dialga
Wakayama Finals - Mixed Weather Vs Hail + TR Dialga
Saitama Finals - Hail + TR Dialga vs Sand Beatdown
Kanagawa Finals Day 1* - Rain + TR Dialga Vs Sunny Beatdown
Kanagawa Finals Day 2* - Rain Beatdown(Tina with Twave) Vs Mixed Weather + TR Dialga
Nagano Finals - Mixed Weather + TR Cresselia Vs Rain Beatdown
Aomori Finals - Mixed Weather Vs Rain + Shedinja
Okayama Finals - Sand Beatdown Vs Mixed Weather
Hiroshima Finals - Hail Beatdown Vs. Rain Beatdown

Unofficial tournament matches:

Expert Evan vs. Serendipity, Finals in Smogon VGC 2010 practice tournament - Rain Beatdown Vs Mixed Weather + TR Dialga
Pokémon VGC 2010 Wi-Fi Battle - Gritt VS Massi - Rain Beatdown Vs Mixed Weather

look how many times TR Dialga is listed. In TR, Tars, Bomas, Smeargles, Dons, Ogres are all common in TR. Also bw weary of the occasional Hariyama in TR.

Just know though that our meta will probably end up being quite differen't from the japanese though, so it is hard to tell exactly what will happen until the regionals start.

 

[Icy Vegeta]

While mewtwo is somewhat bulky, it's not going to be able to stand up to some of the heavier Special hitters in the metagame. TR Dialga, and Modest Palkia both have a chance to 1 shot it while your boosting with draco meteor, so basically any spread attack after that and its bye mewtwo. Gengar and Mewtwo, both have a chance to 1 Shot it with shadow ball. Kyogre and Palkia's Hydro pump in rain will one shot it. Its a good idea, but you could use a broader moveset and get the same damage results.

You see, this is where my other team member comes into play. Without revealing anything huge, this Pokemon has Taunt along with Follow Me. With this in mind, I pretty much get a free boost. This Pokemon can survive a Draco Meteor or absorb status, so I won't have to worry about Dialga. With Kyogre, I do have to worry about the Hydro Pump but I can't cover anything. Mostly this set is used to lure Tyranitar who thinks he can kill me. Suprise is one of the number one ways to win, especially in something with Standard Uber sets and counters.

 

[Mosquito]

You see, this is where my other team member comes into play. Without revealing anything huge, this Pokemon has Taunt along with Follow Me. With this in mind, I pretty much get a free boost. This Pokemon can survive a Draco Meteor or absorb status, so I won't have to worry about Dialga. With Kyogre, I do have to worry about the Hydro Pump but I can't cover anything. Mostly this set is used to lure Tyranitar who thinks he can kill me. Suprise is one of the number one ways to win, especially in something with Standard Uber sets and counters.

You know, you sorta narrowed your Pokemon down to three options, so you might as well tell which one it is ;)

 

[Icy Vegeta]

You know, you sorta narrowed your Pokemon down to three options, so you might as well tell which one it is ;)

I'd rather not.

 

[Rayne Sylvan]

Is a non-selfdestruct Snorlax at all viable in TR? I'd love to use Lax but I don't currently have access to XD for the tutor, not to mention the relative difficulty of breeding perfect 'mons in Emerald.

 

[Showsni]

Is a non-selfdestruct Snorlax at all viable in TR? I'd love to use Lax but I don't currently have access to XD for the tutor, not to mention the relative difficulty of breeding perfect 'mons in Emerald.

If you have a Pokéwalker, the Winner's Path route was just released for English speaking games, so now we can get easy access to a Selfdestruct Snorlax.

 

[Rayne Sylvan]

If you have a Pokéwalker, the Winner's Path route was just released for English speaking games, so now we can get easy access to a Selfdestruct Snorlax.

I had considered that, but I wouldn't necessarily call a 5% chance after 8,000 steps "easy". Not to mention how hard it will be to get even decent stats that way. If a non-SD Snorlax is at all viable, I'd rather do that than torture myself with trying to get one out of Winner's Path.

 

[Showsni]

Heh, yeah, there is the difficulty in getting the steps and actually catching the thing. But it's pretty easy to RNG once you've done that; I got a Brave 29/30/30/0/30/1 one this morning.

As for non-SD Snorlax, I think it could be viable. There's also the bonus that a skilled opponent will probably expect Selfdestruct on it; that gives you the oppurtnity to possibly take advantage whilst they attempt to dodge a predicted Selfdestruct. (E.g., you lead with Snorlax and Giratina and they'll be bound to expect a BOOM!, so if they do something like double protect you get a chance to set up with Curse/Calm Mind/whatever.).

 

[NjSoccer]

Is there a fee to compete at the VGC tourneys? or you just show up and yeah?

Also, looking for a VGC trained dialga. PM me as i really need one for mah team >_>