Averagemons



252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 107-126 (26.5 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Mienshao gets Knock Off, which threatens Nidoking with the removal of its Life Orb, meaning it becomes neutered if it stays in and goes for Sludge Wave again. It also resists Stealth Rock, meaning it isn't prone to being worn down. Probably the best Nidoking counter you'll get, as there are no strange coverage moves that hit it specifically.
Yeah the main problem here is how fucking fat you made the EVs to do it, like you don't really threaten anything else on the team with that kinda spread.

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mew Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Mew: 129-152 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You can still dodge the 2hko and get some decent damage if you run 252 adamant instead of HP / Careful
 
I've found Bulky Volt-Turn to be pretty nice, considering how literally anything with a good defensive typing and a switching move can be a viable bulky pivot. Some stuff I've been using on the ladder to good success:
  • Mienshao (as has been mentioned) is a great AV user; U-Turn, HJK, and some combination of coverage tanks basically any non-super-effective special attack with ease
  • LO Zekrom checks a bunch of fliers and hits pretty hard [252+ Atk Life Orb Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 253-298 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO]
  • Forretress is weirdly useful, between applying hazard pressure and hitting decently hard with Flash Cannon/Signal Beam
  • Yveltal can be kindof cool if your team needs it, with a strong Knock Off/Sucker Punch combo and U-turn+Oblivion Wing
  • CB Genesect has a strong U-turn/Extremespeed/Explosion, yadda yadda
  • Starmie is a great bulky spinner with two awesome abilities (Analytic Scalds are fcking amazing, and Natural Cure lets it function as a status absorber)
In general, I've come across a crapton of teams which don't have solid hazard control; because of this, Volt-turn with a good hazard layer can break down badly built teams with ease. imo it's much easier to get hazards down in Averagemons than in standard because your hazard layer is guaranteed to be both reasonably bulky and have offensive presence on either side of the spectrum. I'm curious as to whether others have observed this as well or whether it's just me (maybe I'm just awful at pressing hazards in standard, idk)
 
I've found Bulky Volt-Turn to be pretty nice, considering how literally anything with a good defensive typing and a switching move can be a viable bulky pivot. Some stuff I've been using on the ladder to good success:
  • Mienshao (as has been mentioned) is a great AV user; U-Turn, HJK, and some combination of coverage tanks basically any non-super-effective special attack with ease
  • LO Zekrom checks a bunch of fliers and hits pretty hard [252+ Atk Life Orb Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 253-298 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO]
  • Forretress is weirdly useful, between applying hazard pressure and hitting decently hard with Flash Cannon/Signal Beam
  • Yveltal can be kindof cool if your team needs it, with a strong Knock Off/Sucker Punch combo and U-turn+Oblivion Wing
  • CB Genesect has a strong U-turn/Extremespeed/Explosion, yadda yadda
  • Starmie is a great bulky spinner with two awesome abilities (Analytic Scalds are fcking amazing, and Natural Cure lets it function as a status absorber)
In general, I've come across a crapton of teams which don't have solid hazard control; because of this, Volt-turn with a good hazard layer can break down badly built teams with ease. imo it's much easier to get hazards down in Averagemons than in standard because your hazard layer is guaranteed to be both reasonably bulky and have offensive presence on either side of the spectrum. I'm curious as to whether others have observed this as well or whether it's just me (maybe I'm just awful at pressing hazards in standard, idk)
With every mon having that same 100 BST across the board, you get a lot of new solid, viable hazard layers and it makes it a lot easier to get hazards up on the field, as you said. This tho, counts for spinners/defoggers as well. You get a lot of good spinners like the Starmie you talked about. I don't know why most people don't have hazard control on there team, because it's really easy. Hazards on the field is pretty useful in this meta imo because if you can turn a 3HKO into a 2HKO after rocks, this applies to every mon with the same investment and thus making it very worthwhile. Also, Sticky Web is very useful to get rid of those speed ties, without having to speed creep.
 
I'm very new to this metagame, but how does mixed Machamp sound?

Machamp @ Expert Belt
Ability: No Guard
- Focus Blast
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Knock Off

I'm not sure what EVs would be best on this set--it's just an idea I thought of after remembering Machamp gets access to Fire Blast.
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
I'm very new to this metagame, but how does mixed Machamp sound?

Machamp @ Expert Belt
Ability: No Guard
- Focus Blast
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Knock Off

I'm not sure what EVs would be best on this set--it's just an idea I thought of after remembering Machamp gets access to Fire Blast.
It's not a bad idea, but I would DynamicPunch>Focus Blast
 
After some discussion, the council has decided that Venomoth is now banned. Thanks to Sleep Powder, Venomoth is ridiculously efficient at passing Quiver Dances to its teammates, and it is almost impossible to stop it from passing at least one Quiver Dance without a Sleep Powder miss, or with the use of an obscure option like Safety Goggles. The only Pokemon which can consistently stop Venomoth that isn't outclassed otherwise is Clear Smog Foongus/Amoonguss, which isn't really an option on offensively inclined teams. Powerful special attackers like Exploud and Nidoqueen are difficult enough to deal with unboosted; with a Quiver Dance or two passed to them they are practically unwallable. Often Venomoth doesn't even need to pass its boosts - thanks to Tinted Lens, it can sometimes sweep weakened teams on its own. Overall, Venomoth is just far too efficient at performing its role to allow it to remain in the tier.

The Immortal
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Yvetal is pretty good here. I've been running offensive taunt with life orb and three attacks. Dark pulse can 2hko anything that doesn't resist and isn't specially defensive. Oblivion wing is good coverage along with dark pulse and restores hp. Special Yvetal misses out on priority but besides sucker punch and acrobatics it's physical move pool is meh.
 
Yvetal is pretty good here. I've been running offensive taunt with life orb and three attacks. Dark pulse can 2hko anything that doesn't resist and isn't specially defensive. Oblivion wing is good coverage along with dark pulse and restores hp. Special Yvetal misses out on priority but besides sucker punch and acrobatics it's physical move pool is meh.
Physical Yveltal actually isn't that bad; it gets Knock Off, which is a rad move for obvious reasons, as well as sucker punch and u-turn. Losing out on Oblivion Wing is a bummer tho. I feel like a mixed set might be worth trying out.
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Physical Yveltal actually isn't that bad; it gets Knock Off, which is a rad move for obvious reasons, as well as sucker punch and u-turn. Losing out on Oblivion Wing is a bummer tho. I feel like a mixed set might be worth trying out.
I don't think Physical Yvetal is bad at all, I just feel like it's special set is more viable. As a physical attacker I feel like Honchkrow outclasses Yvetal, it doesn't have u-turn or knock off; but I think superpower, brave bird, and moxie make up for the lack of those two moves and Dark Aura though. Also Krow has an amazing support move pool that makes Yvetal jealous with gems like defog, perish song, t-wave, haze, whirlwind, snatch, etc....
 
After some discussion, the council has decided that Venomoth is now banned. Thanks to Sleep Powder, Venomoth is ridiculously efficient at passing Quiver Dances to its teammates, and it is almost impossible to stop it from passing at least one Quiver Dance without a Sleep Powder miss, or with the use of an obscure option like Safety Goggles. The only Pokemon which can consistently stop Venomoth that isn't outclassed otherwise is Clear Smog Foongus/Amoonguss, which isn't really an option on offensively inclined teams. Powerful special attackers like Exploud and Nidoqueen are difficult enough to deal with unboosted; with a Quiver Dance or two passed to them they are practically unwallable. Often Venomoth doesn't even need to pass its boosts - thanks to Tinted Lens, it can sometimes sweep weakened teams on its own. Overall, Venomoth is just far too efficient at performing its role to allow it to remain in the tier.

The Immortal
whoops, forgot to tag Eevee General in this
 
I don't think Physical Yvetal is bad at all, I just feel like it's special set is more viable. As a physical attacker I feel like Honchkrow outclasses Yvetal, it doesn't have u-turn or knock off; but I think superpower, brave bird, and moxie make up for the lack of those two moves and Dark Aura though. Also Krow has an amazing support move pool that makes Yvetal jealous with gems like defog, perish song, t-wave, haze, whirlwind, snatch, etc....
Don't forget Murkrow who has a very similar movepool and also gets Prankster, letting it use that movepool very effectively.
 
So pokemon with critical boosting items seem decent in the current meta, but while Farfetch'd is really popular many seem to forget about our other Lucky Puncher (pun intended, don't kill me please):



Chansey (F) @ Lucky Punch
Ability: Natural Cure/Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind/Coverage

I have found this to be Chansey's most efficient set. Due to the current offensive nature of the meta you might want to swap Calm Mind with a coverage move like Flamethrower to hit steel types. You can even choose Heal Bell if you want to. It just depends on what your team needs. With 252 Spa-Evs Hyper Voice already hits decently hard, but with the 50% crit chance of your Lucky Punch the pink blob hits like a truck, effictively giving her Choice Specs with no drawbacks half of the time. She also is one of the few things I've found that is able to beat Unaware Clefable, given she gets two Hyper Voice crits in a row. One of the biggest bonusses in comparison to Farfetch'd is her huge support movepool and decent attacking movepool in general. Her main stab doesn't have recoil too, although Normal Stab is arguably worse in comparison too Flying Stab. Nonetheless Chansey is a really underestimated threat in the current meta, as a result I was able to sweep unprepared opponents several times.
 
I remember someone from OU chat talking about a final gambit team that was used to take out Lucario threats in regular Pokemon. Has anyone begun a scarf gambit team with Luke in the back waiting for the 1v1 in averagemons?

obviously protect or Prankster sub mons counter this but it probably works on balance and hyper offense.

Also with Prankster in mind, how are the fireflies? Tail Glow pass and whatnot, or even his own tail Glow sweep.

EDIT: IS PRANKSTER RIOLU WITH FINAL GAMBIT A THING WE CAN USE?
 
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Arbok @ Black Sludge
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Rest

I Found a good pokémon in this tier and he is Arbok
With Coil he becomes a powerfull and resistant sweeper,Earthquake for coverage and Rest, With Shed Skin you can recover from sleep :D.

Arbok is a very good pokémon in this tier,Gunk shot hits hard and Earthquake kills Steel types like a Heatran,Corsola,etc...
Coil boosts the defense and makes it very resistant.
If you need a Powerfull Sweeper choose Arbok the Fairy Killler.
 
^ btw you can run crunch for coverage against psychic types that doesn't die to an earthquake and also hit brozor/zong who would otherwise wall your other moves
 
Other Metas Mobile Research Laboratory

What is this? It's a mini-project to spark discussion within the subject's thread instead of siphoning it off into a new thread somewhere else. Each week or so I'll post a new topic in a metagame or pet mod. Topics will vary from thread to thread, so make sure to check out each one to see if it's something you want to participate in. Plus, if it dies, at least there isn't an empty thread cluttering up the subforum. (intro by Eevee General)

Week 3 - Averagemons
Topic - Stall and its role in the metagame
Viable Stall mons:


Help me fill in the rest!

Questions:


    • How viable is stall in the current metagame?
    • What Pokemon are missing from the above list?
    • What does a stall team need to function?
    • What Pokemon/strategies cause problems for stall teams?
I'll add things brought up by you as necessary to complete our research. Just like anywhere else in the forums, contributing well thought out ideas can lead to rewards. I'll keep track of the best contributors throughout this project, so stay consistent!
You should add Staryu to that list. Not only is it the only mon with both recover and rapid spin (other than poorly typed Starmie and the banned smeargle), but it has Natural Cure to soak status and the defensive pure water typing.
 
Physically defensive calm mind swoobat has worked very well for me as of countering unaware mons trying to stop the sweeps. The set i use is:


Swoobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Roost
- Heat Wave

Heat wave is just there to hit both dark and steels, there are a lot of other options for the last slot- knock off, taunt, substitute, air slash, signal beam, or even psycho shift- which can all be helpful in certain situations. One turn of set up and this thing becomes a serious bulky sweeping threat.
 
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I am just saying: Since Speed tying is abig issue, what if pokemon with the same speed would move contemporaneously ( making an example here: a Mawile targets a Clefable with Iron Head, and Clefable responds with Fire Blast; Mawile loses HP due to Fire Blast, while Clefable loses HP due to Iron Head, all in the same turn ).
It is only an idea in a moment, plz dont hate.
We can't implement changes in the battle system for OM's
 
The point of any balance in this speed tie meta is to have RNG decide winners of those clashes. That's why sticky web is popular and max speed is necessary for your checks. Adding a mechanic to trade damage taken seems unnatural to the Pokemon hard-code
 

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