Averagemons

So you think that those Pee Dons and Arceuses are enuf? You need some real PU mons! As everyones stats become 100/100/100/100/100/100, no need to worry bout them being not bulkeh!


Dedenne @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Recycle
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Parabolic Charge\Nuzzle
The recycle tho. You can also replace Petaya with Sitrus.


Chatot @ Focus Sash
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Chatter FILLER
Huh. Chatter is banned.Now wut? Well, use nasty plot and start sweeping if there be no talonflame of roxx.


Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Protect
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
It has a decent movepool, and...well, Speed Boost. You can even run a physical ninjask, because it has access to Swords Dance.


Ditto @ Leftovers/Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Bold Nature
- Transform
Well... Now Ditto has 100 base HP. When the Opposing Pokemon tries to set up, switch this guy in.

Thats it for now. Ill post more later.
 
So you think that those Pee Dons and Arceuses are enuf? You need some real PU mons! As everyones stats become 100/100/100/100/100/100, no need to worry bout them being not bulkeh!


Dedenne @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Recycle
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Parabolic Charge\Nuzzle
The recycle tho. You can also replace Petaya with Sitrus.


Chatot @ Focus Sash
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Chatter FILLER
Huh. Chatter is banned.Now wut? Well, use nasty plot and start sweeping if there be no talonflame of roxx.


Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Protect
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
It has a decent movepool, and...well, Speed Boost. You can even run a physical ninjask, because it has access to Swords Dance.


Ditto @ Leftovers/Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Bold Nature
- Transform
Well... Now Ditto has 100 base HP. When the Opposing Pokemon tries to set up, switch this guy in.

Thats it for now. Ill post more later.
I would run physical ninjask; it has access to swords dance to boost, which makes it much more frightening than it is at +0. Also scolipede is probably just better since it doesn't have that awful typing.
 
I would run physical ninjask; it has access to swords dance to boost, which makes it much more frightening than it is at +0. Also scolipede is probably just better since it doesn't have that awful typing.
Actually i agree with you over using Scolipede, and you can even use Blaziken.
 
Given that it's now 30% bulkier and has no weakness (except Moldy EQ), how viable would you say Eelektross is? (In fact the whole meta seems bulky to me with everyone needing boosts or at least pseudo boosts.)
What do people think is the ideal way to deal with Speed
Some Speed-related ideas:
  • Sticky Web, but watch out for those Contrary users who pick up a speed boost instead
  • Trick Room
  • Payback (double power if you're slower)
  • Analytic (1.3x power if you're slower)
  • Metal Burst (Aggron-Mega?)
Spinda @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Spinda for B- rank: Better typing and move set than Malamar. Too bad this rest talk set gets walled by ghost type.
Well, Spinda does learn Shadow Ball...
 

G-Luke

Grookey Gang Rise Up
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Will Venomoth be un-banned since the Baton Pass nerf and also maybe Smeargle.

Here is a set im sure no one sees coming.

Togekiss @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 176 HP / 80 Spe
Ability: Hustle
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Aerial Ace
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Trick

A unexpected and powerful wallbreaker with Hustle + Choice Band boosting its attack to extreme levels. Aerial Ace is a powerful and spammable STAB, as it bypasses Hustle's accuracy nerf. Extreme Speed is powerful priority that allows it to revenge kill many threats. Drain Punch hits Steel types hard and provides semi-reliable recovery. Zen Headbutt smashes Poison types (cough couch Nidoking) hard, while Choice Scarf cripples Stallmons which are very popular in this meta.
 
Prettyfied the VR

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the Averagemons metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

Clefable
/
Nidoking/Nidoqueen
http://data:image/png;base64,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 Primal Groudon

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Averagemons metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. These Pokemon exert a strong presence in the metagame.

A+ Rank:
Chatot
Kecleon
Sableye-Mega
Skrelp
Swoobat
Talonflame

A Rank:
Crawdaunt
Dragalge
Exploud
/
Foongus/Amoonguss
Gliscor
Greninja
Serperior
Wooper

A- Rank:
Corsola
Klefki
Kyogre
Salamence-Mega
Xerneas
/
Zigzagoon/Linoone

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Averagemons metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

B+ Rank:
Arceus-Normal
Arceus-Rock
Blaziken
Gardevoir
Gyarados-Mega
Jirachi
Mawile
Rayquaza-Mega
Skarmory
Slowking
/
Swirlix/Slurpuff
Tauros
Victini

B Rank:
Alomomomomomomomola
Altaria-Mega
Audino
Breloom
Excadrill
Gorebyss
Ho-oh
Huntail
Lucario-Mega
Masquerain
Ninetales
/
Pawniard/Bisharp
Porygon-Z
Primal Kyogre
Solrock
Staryu
Thundurus
Tornadus-Therian
Yveltal

B- Rank:
Aerodactyl
Banette-Mega
Darkrai
Ditto
Furfrou
Genesect
Gyarados
Heatran
/
Hippopotas/Hippowdon
Kabutops
Kingdra
Malamar
Manaphy
Mew
Mienshao
Numel
Shaymin-Sky
Shuckle
Surskit
Sylveon
Volbeat

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Averagemons metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

C+ Rank:
Arceus-Ghost
Arceus-Steel
Aurorus
Barbaracle
Charizard-Mega (X)
Deoxys
Ferrothorn
Hitmonlee
Landorus-Therian
Latias
Latios
Ludicolo
Palkia
Reuniclus
Salamence
Scizor
Sigilyph
Swellow
Tangrowth
Togekiss
Vivillon
/
Cottonee/Whimsicott

C Rank:
Aerodactyl-Mega
Alakazam
Arcanine
Arceus-Fairy
/
Bronzor/Bronzong
/
Carvahna/Sharpedo
Cloyster
Crustle
Diancie-Mega
Dragonite
Gardevoir-Mega
Giratina-Origin
Groudon
Hydreigon
Murkrow
Politoed
Qwilfish
Sawsbuck
Staraptor
Trevenant
Tyrantrum
Ursaring
Victreebel
Zangoose

C- Rank:
Azumarill
Basculin
Bibarel
Conkeldurr
Eelektross
Espeon
Farfetch'd
Flygon
Gengar
Honchkrow
/
Frillish/Jellicent
Larvitar
Lopunny-Mega
Lugia
Tyranitar
Xatu

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the Averagemons metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

Aegislash
Beedrill-Mega
Chansey
Charizard-Mega-Y
Dialga
Diancie
Dustox
Eevee
Garchomp
Klinklang
Landorus-Incarnate
Lilligant
/
/
Magnemite/Magneton/Magnezone
Mewtwo
Ninjask
Rayquaza
/
Roselia/Roserade
Rotom-Wash
Tropius
Zekrom
 
Last edited:
Prettyfied the VR

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the Averagemons metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

Clefable
/
Nidoking/Nidoqueen
http://data:image/png;base64,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 Primal Groudon

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Averagemons metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. These Pokemon exert a strong presence in the metagame.

A+ Rank:
Chatot
Kecleon
Sableye-Mega
Skrelp
Swoobat
Talonflame

A Rank:
Crawdaunt
Dragalge
Exploud
/
Foongus/Amoonguss
Gliscor
Greninja
Serperior
Wooper

A- Rank:
Corsola
Klefki
Kyogre
Salamence-Mega
Xerneas
/
Zigzagoon/Linoone

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Averagemons metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

B+ Rank:
Arceus-Normal
Arceus-Rock
Blaziken
Gardevoir
Gyarados-Mega
Jirachi
Mawile
Rayquaza-Mega
Skarmory
Slowking
/
Swirlix/Slurpuff
Tauros
Victini

B Rank:
Alomomomomomomomola
Altaria-Mega
Audino
Breloom
Excadrill
Gorebyss
Ho-oh
Huntail
Lucario-Mega
Masquerain
Ninetales
/
Pawniard/Bisharp
Porygon-Z
Primal Kyogre
Solrock
Staryu
Thundurus
Tornadus-Therian
Yveltal

B- Rank:
Aerodactyl
Banette-Mega
Darkrai
Ditto
Furfrou
Genesect
Gyarados
Heatran
/
Hippopotas/Hippowdon
Kabutops
Kingdra
Malamar
Manaphy
Mew
Mienshao
Numel
Shaymin-Sky
Shuckle
Surskit
Sylveon
Volbeat

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Averagemons metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

C+ Rank:
Arceus-Ghost
Arceus-Steel
Aurorus
Barbaracle
Charizard-Mega (X)
Deoxys
Ferrothorn
Hitmonlee
Landorus-Therian
Latias
Latios
Ludicolo
Palkia
Reuniclus
Salamence
Scizor
Sigilyph
Swellow
Tangrowth
Togekiss
Vivillon
/
Cottonee/Whimsicott

C Rank:
Aerodactyl-Mega
Alakazam
Arcanine
Arceus-Fairy
/
Bronzor/Bronzong
/
Carvahna/Sharpedo
Cloyster
Crustle
Diancie-Mega
Dragonite
Gardevoir-Mega
Giratina-Origin
Groudon
Hydreigon
Murkrow
Politoed
Qwilfish
Sawsbuck
Staraptor
Trevenant
Tyrantrum
Ursaring
Victreebel
Zangoose

C- Rank:
Azumarill
Basculin
Bibarel
Conkeldurr
Eelektross
Espeon
Farfetch'd
Flygon
Gengar
Honchkrow
/
Frillish/Jellicent
Larvitar
Lopunny-Mega
Lugia
Tyranitar
Xatu

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the Averagemons metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

Aegislash
Beedrill-Mega
Chansey
Charizard-Mega-Y
Dialga
Diancie
Dustox
Eevee
Garchomp
Klinklang
Landorus-Incarnate
Lilligant
/
/
Magnemite/Magneton/Magnezone
Mewtwo
Ninjask
Rayquaza
/
Roselia/Roserade
Rotom-Wash
Tropius
Zekrom
Oml, thank you so much for this! I've been meaning to get around to this but I kept procrastinating on it, you just saved me a ton of work! I'll edit this into the OP
 
So since the baton pass clause is in effect, does Venomoth have a chance at being unbanned? Going by the post about it, that seemed to be the main reason for its banning.

Maybe Smeargle as well, although I'm not sure on that since I can't find the post for it.
 
I'm thinking of a decent set to abuse Final Gambit in this meta, but don't know what item

Ninjask @ Mental Herb / Safety Goggles
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Timid Nature
- Final Gambit
- Protect
- U-Turn
- Baton Pass

Suicide mon that kills everything, Protect to outspeed everything that isn't boosted. Can Baton Pass a speed boost, and U-Turn to get out of bad situations.

Also really liking this Trevenant set, SubSeed with Harvest.

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Giga Drain
- Will-O-Wisp

EDIT: Thanks sin(pi)
 
Last edited:

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
I'm thinking of a decent set to abuse Final Gambit in this meta, but don't know what item

Ninjask @ ???
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Final Gambit
- Protect

Suicide mon that kills everything, Protect to outspeed everything that isn't boosted.
Mental Herb blocks Prankster Encore, while Safety Goggles helps with Sand/Hail damage.

or run itemless with thief to hit ghosts
 
ive been meaning to do this for a while but it kept slipping my mind, sorry bout that!

Venomoth is unbanned. With the recent implementation of Baton Pass clause, it can no longer pass Quiver Dance boosts and thus isn't really broken anymore.

I'll get around to updating the VR soon, but in the meantime, where do y'all think Venomoth should go on the rankings? It still has access to one of the best boosting moves in the game, as well as Tinted Lens.

As well, I want to open up some discussion on the banlist. A few people have raised concerns to me that the tier is not as well balanced as it could be, specifically that a well built stall team is obnoxiously difficulty to break through (looking at u Deathly ♛The King), and that Clefable in particular is very difficult to beat. As well, I've thought for a while that the Nidos are really dumb and restrict teambuilding to a high degree. Do y'all think that we should do something about this, and if so, what should be done?
 

G-Luke

Grookey Gang Rise Up
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Here is simething i could suggest.... Suspect Clefable and Sheer Force.

Clefable is stupidly strong being EXTREMELY versatile with so much sets. Unlike most viable Pokemon in Averagemons, Clefable is 100% better, since every stat gets buffed (its S Ranked in standard where no stat hits 100). Its checks while ok, Clefable easily has a way to get around it, since not every set as the same checks and counters. Unaware Wall, CM Magic Guard, Offensive, Unaware + CM, Bulky SR setter..... yeah thats how good this is. Definately needs to get a look into.

The Nidos are a different story. While they are super restrictive, its because of one thing: Sheer Force. Without Sheer Force the Nidos would simply be good offensive pokes with great coverage options.
 
I have unbanned Shedinja. PS! had it implemented incorrectly; it always has 1 HP no matter what its base HP is.

(If it's broken at 1 HP, MAMP can reban, but I doubt it)
Thanks TI! With 1 HP Shedinja shouldn't be an issue. In Averagemons it suffers from the same crippling issue as it does in standard tiers, its horrific weakness to hazards and any form of passive damage. Even though its greater speed and attack allow it to more effectively take advantage of the free turns it creates than in standard tiers, I can't see it being too much of a threat.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Thanks TI! With 1 HP Shedinja shouldn't be an issue. In Averagemons it suffers from the same crippling issue as it does in standard tiers, its horrific weakness to hazards and any form of passive damage. Even though its greater speed and attack allow it to more effectively take advantage of the free turns it creates than in standard tiers, I can't see it being too much of a threat.
famous last words before you get rekt by a sab + shed stall team
 
Some things that look interesting in Averagemons now thanks to ORAS move tutors/ORAS in general/Still may be good.

Pangoro:
Has nice utility in Parting shot, semi-reliable recovery with drain punch, taunt to mess with stall, bulk up if you like boosting, knock off, and a decent movepool with things like the elemental punches and GUNK SHOT.

Kecleon:
dual priority recovery options, nasty plot, PROTEAN, a wide movepool, stealth rocks, knock off, and more.

Yveltal has knock off and some other support options, along with a free life orb boost to dark type attacks and has U-turn.

Blaziken looks pretty stronk. Speed boost, swords dance, baton pass, an actual movepool. What could possibly go wrong?

Deoxys still exists,still has it's unholy movepool and has cosmic power for extra annoyingness. It does have it's crummy typing though.

Too bad Togekiss is fairy type, i would have otherwise use hustle-extremespeed on it for fun.
Wouldn't that be triple priority options? Fake out, Scuker Punch, Shadow Sneak.
 
Surely the meta game is good
But every pokemon having 100 base speed means there will be alot of speed ties hence lot of 50-50 chances :(
 

Xayah

KA-KOOO!
is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Exploud could be a great wallbreaker here with its wide movepool and access to Specs STAB Scrappy Boomburst. Its other moves can be filled up with anything really.
 
What about Drifloon/Drifblim? It's got two good abilities, one of which is unique to it: Unburden and Flare Boost. Sadly, its movepool doesn't seem that good, but there's at least the seed of a good Pokemon there.

Drifblim @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Unburden
Acrobatics
Knock Off/Sucker Punch
Rest
Hypnosis/Body Slam/Explosion/Sleep Talk

Drifblim @ Flame Orb
Ability: Flare Boost
Shadow Ball
Psychic/Pain Split
Thunderbolt/Pain Split
Trick
 

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