B&W Research Thread

poccil said:
I just tested this.

It's probably because your friend must have accidentally targeted his/her partner with Scald. In generation 5, when an attack targets an ally that isn't there, it doesn't go back and target an opposing Pokemon that is there. Moreover, generation 5 uses the message "But it failed!" rather than the message "But there was no target..." (as was the case in generation 4) when an attack fails because there is no target.

Therefore, Scald indeed tried to "hit a target that wasn't there".
Click to expand...

That same thing happened when I was battling one of my friends in college. I was wondering about that. His Lucario's Psychic failed, allowing my Stunfisk to KO it.
 
FOUND IT. So I'll test the signature move combinations out but unless somebody else can work with me over WiFi or something I don't know how I would test which abilities activate with priority or lack thereof

Edit: Okay shit I'm getting nothing. Unless there's something I'm doing really wrong I'm having trouble getting any conclusive results solo
 
I'm not entire sure this goes here but I figure it's a form of research.

VGC Tiebreaker Mechanics (and probably random Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi Competitions as well as well)

For reference here are what the official rules say about the tiebreakers for VGC battles:

29.1. Tiebreakers
Should the time limit expire before a player knocks out his or her opponent’s final Pokémon, the winner of the game is determined based on the criteria below.

1. Remaining Pokémon
If one player has more remaining Pokémon than the other, that player wins the game.
If both players have the same number of Pokémon remaining, the result of the game is determined by average percentage of HP remaining, as described below.

2. Average Percentage of HP Remaining
If one player’s team has a higher average percentage of HP remaining, that player wins the game.
If both players’ teams have the same average HP remaining, the result of the game is determined by amount of HP remaining, as described below.

3. Amount of Total HP Remaining
If one player’s team has a higher total HP remaining, that player wins the game.
If both players’ teams have the same total HP remaining, the result of the game is a tie.


These tiebreakers are automatically applied by the game when the timer in a match runs out. How the second tiebreaker works has come into question so I did some testing regarding it. How people seem to think it worked was:
Tiebreaker Rating = (sum of (current HP/max HP) for each living Pokemon) / (# of living Pokemon)
With the higher tiebreaker rating winning the second tiebreaker. This is incorrect.

For the tests, I'll give the number of Pokemon alive, their current and max HP when the timer expires.

Test #1
Team 1
4 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP:
156/156
155/155
170/170
161/161

Team 2
4 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP:
185/185
168/201
191/191
167/167

Team 1 wins. Both teams had the same number of Pokemon and Team 2 had the higher total remaining HP so this shows the second tiebreaker does exist.

Test #2
Team 1
1 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP along with the max HP of the three fainted Pokemon:
142/155
0/156
0/161
0/170

Team 2
1 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP along with the max HP of the three fainted Pokemon:
155/155
0/185
0/191
0/201

Team 1 wins. I don't think you will find many people who would have expected this result. Team 2 has 1 full HP Pokemon against a single damaged Pokemon and loses despite what many would interpret to be a higher average Percentage of HP Remaining.

Test #3
Team 1
140/155
0/156
0/161
0/170

Team 2
155/155
0/185
0/191
0/201

Team 2 wins. The difference in this scenario is Team 1's first Pokemon has 140 HP instead of 142. This is enough for team 1 to either lose the second tiebreaker or tie the second tiebreaker and lose on the third.


I believe the truth of the second tiebreaker is:
Tiebreaker Rating = floor((total current HP of all Pokemon) * 100 / (total max HP of all Pokemon))

Using my formula:

Test #1
Team 1 Tiebreaker score = 100
Team 2 Tiebreaker score = 95

Test #2
Team 1 Tiebreaker score = 22
Team 2 Tiebreaker score = 21

Test #3
Team 1 Tiebreaker score = floor(21.81) = 21
Team 2 Tiebreaker score = floor(21.17) = 21 (Team 2 wins by 3rd tiebreaker)

It's worth noting that before the floor, team 1 actually wins the 2nd tiebreaker but due to the floor it becomes a tie and a loss by 3rd tiebreaker.

Any other ideas for test cases or mistakes I may have made?
 
Team Rocket Elite said:
How people seem to think it worked was:
Tiebreaker Rating = (sum of (current HP/max HP) for each living Pokemon) / (# of living Pokemon)

I believe the truth of the second tiebreaker is:
Tiebreaker Rating = floor(((total current HP of all Pokemon) * 100) / (total max HP of all Pokemon))
Click to expand...

99% sure you're right on this one; the game doesn't usually keep remainders (unsigned divmod function), so it would need that third tiebreaker.

The second formula is much easier for the game to compute (accessing 8 addresses and doing much less calculations) compared to the first.

I'll try to get mat or xfr to debug this, since they asleepz
 
Team Rocket Elite said:
VGC Tiebreaker Mechanics (and probably random Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi Competitions as well as well)

I believe the truth of the second tiebreaker is:
Tiebreaker Rating = floor((total current HP of all Pokemon) * 100 / (total max HP of all Pokemon))
Click to expand...

Thank you TRE.

Here´s my Paris round 3 situation that I described in my (war)story:

I had: 181 HP Rhydon + 161 HP Crobat + 156 HP Latios + 185 HP Ludicolo = 683 total HP
Foe had: 141 HP Jolteon + (161-192) HP Togekiss + 152 HP Dusknoir + 328 HP Blissey = 782-813 total HP

My Ludicolo was burned and finished the battle at 162 HP.
Foe´s Blissey was Leech Seeded and finished the battle at 287 HP.

Team 1:
0/181
0/161
0/156
162/185

Team 2:
0/141
0/161-192
0/152
287/328

Tiebreaker Rating = floor((total current HP of all Pokemon) * 100 / (total max HP of all Pokemon))

Team 1 tiebreaker score = 162 * 100 / 683 = 23
Team 2 tiebreaker score = 287 * 100 / 782-813 = 35-36

So it was futile to think I stood a chance with Ludicolo against Blissey... now with this knowledge there will be even more Cresselia flying around and maybe people will start pumping more EVs into HP or something, you know, just in case.

Maybe what you should test is when exactly the game calculates this. I think you or your brother mentioned in your comment about the last turn after the timer dropped to zero being not accounted for or something?

EDIT:
TRE said:
This means beating a even moderately damaged Blissey in the second tiebreaker department is very difficult. For better or worse, your Ludicolo would have lost to 7/8th HP Blissey even if it was at full health. On the other hand, a fainted Blissey is pretty harmful to your second tiebreaker.
Click to expand...

Oh hadn´t thought about that. You´re right, alive Blissey means you almost always win the tiebreaker, a fainted one basically means the opposite. So yeah, you could avoid this by playing your highest HP Pokémon in the back, as your last one. I know this is situational and you´re better off just beating the oponent straight up before the timer rans out.
 
Team Rocket Elite said:
I'm not entire sure this goes here but I figure it's a form of research.

Code: 
VGC Tiebreaker Mechanics (and probably random Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi Competitions as well as well)

For reference here are what the official rules say about the tiebreakers for VGC battles:

29.1. Tiebreakers
Should the time limit expire before a player knocks out his or her opponent’s final Pokémon, the winner of the game is determined based on the criteria below.

1. Remaining Pokémon
If one player has more remaining Pokémon than the other, that player wins the game.
If both players have the same number of Pokémon remaining, the result of the game is determined by average percentage of HP remaining, as described below.

2. Average Percentage of HP Remaining
If one player’s team has a higher average percentage of HP remaining, that player wins the game.
If both players’ teams have the same average HP remaining, the result of the game is determined by amount of HP remaining, as described below.

3. Amount of Total HP Remaining
If one player’s team has a higher total HP remaining, that player wins the game.
If both players’ teams have the same total HP remaining, the result of the game is a tie.


These tiebreakers are automatically applied by the game when the timer in a match runs out. How the second tiebreaker works has come into question so I did some testing regarding it. How people seem to think it worked was:
Tiebreaker Rating = (sum of (current HP/max HP) for each living Pokemon) / (# of living Pokemon)
With the higher tiebreaker rating winning the second tiebreaker. This is incorrect.

For the tests, I'll give the number of Pokemon alive, their current and max HP when the timer expires.

[b]Test #1[/b]
Team 1
4 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP:
156/156
155/155
170/170
161/161

Team 2
4 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP:
185/185
[b]168[/b]/201
191/191
167/167

Team 1 wins. Both teams had the same number of Pokemon and Team 2 had the higher total remaining HP so this shows the second tiebreaker does exist.

[b]Test #2[/b]
Team 1
1 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP along with the max HP of the three fainted Pokemon:
[b]142[/b]/155
0/156
0/161
0/170

Team 2
1 Pokemon alive with the following current and max HP along with the max HP of the three fainted Pokemon:
155/155
0/185
0/191
0/201

[b]Team 1 wins.[/b] I don't think you will find many people who would have expected this result. Team 2 has 1 full HP Pokemon against a single damaged Pokemon and loses despite what many would interpret to be a higher average Percentage of HP Remaining.

[b]Test #3[/b]
Team 1
[b]140[/b]/155
0/156
0/161
0/170

Team 2
155/155
0/185
0/191
0/201

[b]Team 2 wins.[/b] The difference in this scenario is Team 1's first Pokemon has 140 HP instead of 142. This is enough for team 1 to either lose the second tiebreaker or tie the second tiebreaker and lose on the third.


I believe the truth of the second tiebreaker is:
Tiebreaker Rating = floor((total current HP of all Pokemon) * 100 / (total max HP of all Pokemon))

Using my formula:

Test #1
Team 1 Tiebreaker score = 100
Team 2 Tiebreaker score = 95

Test #2
Team 1 Tiebreaker score = 22
Team 2 Tiebreaker score = 21

Test #3
Team 1 Tiebreaker score = floor(21.81) = 21
Team 2 Tiebreaker score = floor(21.17) = 21 (Team 2 wins by 3rd tiebreaker)

It's worth noting that before the floor, team 1 actually wins the 2nd tiebreaker but due to the floor it becomes a tie and a loss by 3rd tiebreaker.

Any other ideas for test cases or mistakes I may have made?
Click to expand...

How did you discover this? inside a Tournament or there is any hack program that simulates videogame tournament^?
 
Maverick Hunter said:
How did you discover this? inside a Tournament or there is any hack program that simulates videogame tournament^?
Click to expand...

if you register for a tournament you are allotted (usually) 99 games. After the tourney you don't unregister so you can dink around. I've also been able to setup fake IR tournaments with AR codes; so it's pretty easy to test this.

whitefag said:
There was some research on video structure? Where can I read about it?
Click to expand...

That information isn't public, but I can direct you here. The instructions start with 20 -> 9x start turn with player move length of instruction -> instruction type + instruction -> 12 if switch required during turn. It's somewhat technical as it is data structure.
 
According to the B/W damage formula page, it appears there are some rare cases in which damage could be 0. If you get through Step 8 of "General flow of damage calculation" with a damage of 1, and the final modifier is 0x800 or less, it should result in a damage of 0. Given the information on the page, you could get a final modifier of 0x800 or less if the target has the ability Multiscale and/or holds the appropriate type-resist berry.

I'm not exactly set up to test, but I was under the impression that attacks that landed would cause at least 1 damage (except in boundary cases involving Endure/Focus Band/False Swipe/Shedinja @ Focus Sash/etc). Can anyone produce a scenario involving Multiscale/Type-resist berries that causes damage to be 0?

EDIT: This could also be triggered in single battles when the target has Reflect/Light Screen up for the appropriate type of damage.
 
Actually? I have done this one on accident in the past when fiddling around with reflect and indeed, I did take zero damage. You still go through the damage flash as usual, but the HP doesn't drop. And yeah, the reflect thing is only in singles. Just retested with a level 71 celebi with reflect and a level 8 patrat.
 
1yS0g.png



7M10K.png
This is if you trust the damage calculator. The first calculation ended up being severe underkill(?) but the second calculation was close to the minimum I saw for getting any damage
 
OmegaDonut said:
Yes. It is a standard stat boost, like Swords Dance.
Click to expand...
Ah nice thx!

Does Taunt work the same way as Encore, in the matter of how many turns it lasts depending on if you played first or second?

For example if i use Taunt and move second, will Taunt last for 2 or 3 more turns, since practically it didn't prevent the opponent from using non-attacking moves in the first turn, because he moved first.
 
alexwolf:

It will last three more rounds; thus it works like Encore. My description for Taunt says:

"Effect lasts for three rounds, or if the user strikes after the opponent, four rounds, including the current round."
 
poccil said:
alexwolf:

It will last three more rounds; thus it works like Encore. My description for Taunt says:

"Effect lasts for three rounds, or if the user strikes after the opponent, four rounds, including the current round."
Click to expand...
Nice, thx a lot!
 
So I know Solace had asked this a while ago in #C&C, idk if she ever got a solid answer, but I'm getting conflicting numbers for Quick Claw's activation rate.

Some sources say 20%, others say a 3/16 chance. Can anybody confirm which is correct?

EDIT: Thanks Kaphotics

also /me slap Nexus with a large trout
 
If Zoroark gets disguised as a poke that has Pressure, will the '' X poke is applying his pressure'' message appear or not?
 
alexwolf:

No, the Illusion Ability doesn't copy a Pokemon's Ability, so the Pokemon under its effect is still considered to have Illusion, not Pressure (or any other Ability).
 
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