Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings MK III

[Kit Kasai]

Since it's still not anywhere, I'd like to nominate Mega Steelix for D Rank. I have been using the RegenVest set lately in a partnership with Mega Diancie to dispatch Imposters of it as well as most other -ates. It can't switch in on Kyu-B like other Steels can, but it has slightly more bulk than Mega Aggron. I've been using it to spread status via Nuzzle to allow POgre and PDon to set up or rip holes respectively. It has been functioning as an excellent pivot. With some attack investment, it can OHKO Mega Rayquaza with Icicle Crash, as well as Mega Diancie via Gear Grind. Sacred Fire is another option to spread burns.

MegaLix

Steelix-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 SpD
Careful Nature
- Nuzzle
- U-turn
- Gear Grind
- Icicle Crash

The EVs are the ones I have been using, and they avoid the 2HKO from Aerilate Sharp Beak Boomburst, allowing you to switch in and OHKO with Icicle Crash. Gear Grind is for Mega Diancie, while also hitting Kyu-B (but you can't switch in on Kyu-B). U-Turn is obvious for momentum and my team appreciates Nuzzle to Paralyze faster Pokemon so MegaLix's teammates can wreck. Like I said earlier, Sacred Fire is usable over or in tandem with Nuzzle for more status spreading, burning Shedinja, and to hit opposing Steel types. The thing I like about Mega Steelix over Mega Aggron is its Ground typing. While this makes it more weak to POgre and Ice types, it gives it a nice Electric immunity allowing it to switch in on Bolt Strikesand Nuzzles before pivoting out. Here's a replay of a battle I just had where MegaLix spread status and annoyed the other team to allow PDon to finish up:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-242927727
The Paras on Arceus and Deoxys in particular were helpful, while it also allowed Lugia to be weakened.

I understand that Mega Aggron or Registeel will outclass Mega Steelix in the majority of situations, but I feel like the Ground typing and ability to switch in and KO Mega Ray is a nice niche for Mega Steelix and enough to give it D Rank.

Can you elaborate more? I'm not convinced. To me, ground typing is more of a disadvantage than advantage. I introduces a weakness to Water and removes your resist to Ice (relevant) and Grass (not as relevant). In return it gains an immunity to Electric, which is for the most part a very uncommon attacking move outside of Volt-Switch. Bolt Strike is rarely run in BH in the current meta, and when it is, it is usually run on protean sets which can easily take out Steelix with a different coverage move like V-Create. In that replay I didn't see any examples of what Steelix can do that Aggron can't. Right now the only thing it has is slightly greater special bulk. Aggron can run a similar regen set to check Mega-Ray, it just ends up having slightly less attack and physical bulk.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

While the Electric immunity is nice, it is not the best reason for running MegaLix imo. It is nice for blocking Volt Switch from Shedinja's that choose to run that over Baton Pass (I have faced a few) as well as stall mons running just Nuzzle for offensive coverage, or again Nuzzle for pivoting. Some PDons run Bolt Strike, and if they are choice locked (~39% of PDons are choiced and ~7% run Bolt Strike in 1760, I've faced a few) you force them out, allowing you to U-Turn safely out to something else nabbing momentum. Even if PDon isn't choice locked, if you switch in on the predicted Bolt Strike, it has enough natural bulk to tank an Arrows and pivot out (if it V-Creates literally wtf lives, not even Mega Aggron does so w/e .-. and you can Pursuit trap it for some big damage when it is -1, but I digress). It can also tank a CC from MMX, Nuzzle it, the pivot out if it switched in on a Bolt Strike (idk exactly how common this is, but I've seen some MMXs run this for POgre), which Mega Aggron also can't do as it would take enough damage from Bolt Strike to put it in CC KO range:

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 252-296 (71.1 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 252-296 (73.2 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (MegaLix has slightly better physical bulk too)

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 90-107 (26.1 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Rolls for Mega Aggron are 99.3 - 117.1%, and overall it has around a 96.1% chance to KO, whereas MegaLix takes no damage and then tanks the CC (Low Kick does the same damage to both). Ofc this is assuming full, but due to Regen I've found this is pretty easy. Basically, while Electric moves are uncommon, they are occasionally used and provide switch in opportunities for Mega Steelix where Mega Aggron would take a lot of damage, get paralyzed, or get pivoted out from leading to momentum loss. The main reason however, is this:

252+ SpA Sky Plate Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 44+ SpD Assault Vest Mega Steelix: 151-178 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Sky Plate Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 44+ SpD Assault Vest Mega Aggron: 174-204 (50.5 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I've found special Mega Ray is getting more common to hit the Steel-type switchins harder, and Mega Lix only has a 1.2% chance to be 2HKOed compared to the guaranteed 2HKO on Mega Aggron with the same EVs. Or, if you are assuming a predominantly physical set with Earth Power as coverage to bop the Steel types:

4 SpA Mega Rayquaza Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 44+ SpD Assault Vest Mega Steelix: 132-156 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 SpA Mega Rayquaza Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 44+ SpD Assault Vest Mega Aggron: 152-180 (44.1 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO

Again, the bulk of MegaLix is superior, completely avoiding the 2HKO. Losing the Ice resistance means you can't check Kyu-B and Kyu-W like other Steel-types, but I have found they have been declining lately, and it is easy to cover them with teammates, such as POgre. MegaLix is slightly bulkier than Mega Aggron allowing it to beat MegaRay and check Bolt Strike variants of Mega Mewtwo X, and the Electric immunity occasionally provides it free switch in opportunities. I feel that the slight bulk increase and the niche but sometimes helpful Electric immunity is enough to give MegaLix D Rank, although Mega Aggron is usually better due to it still resisting Ice.

 

[motherlove]

Can you elaborate more? I'm not convinced. To me, ground typing is more of a disadvantage than advantage. I introduces a weakness to Water and removes your resist to Ice (relevant) and Grass (not as relevant). In return it gains an immunity to Electric, which is for the most part a very uncommon attacking move outside of Volt-Switch. Bolt Strike is rarely run in BH in the current meta, and when it is, it is usually run on protean sets which can easily take out Steelix with a different coverage move like V-Create. In that replay I didn't see any examples of what Steelix can do that Aggron can't. Right now the only thing it has is slightly greater special bulk. Aggron can run a similar regen set to check Mega-Ray, it just ends up having slightly less attack and physical bulk.

- I used steelix mainly to spam thousand arrows, the ground typing is really good offensively.
- Defensively, steelix can spam prankster electrify + disable which is good for scouting and such.
- In terms of imposterproofing if you have any mon with volt switch that you're walling with steelix, using it over aggron stops the oppponent from gaining momentum.
- The buff in special defense is actually much appreciated.
252+ SpA Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Mega Steelix: 144-171 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Mega Aggron: 167-197 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Mega Steelix: 148-175 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Mega Aggron: 170-201 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
- Steelix is slower meaning you have a slower u-turn than aegi, registeel, chansey or mega ampharos and you can spam whatever moves you want against chansey without her being able to metal burst you.
- Last but not least, shiny steelix looks fabulous

Here's the set I've used:

Dat set tho

Steelix-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Shard

EDIT: yeah i got ninja'ed, but you guys gotta realise steelix hsa better special AND phisical bulk, most of you seem to imply that aggron has better phisical bulk which is wrong. Aggron only has more attack making him better for a refrigirate set.

 

[Funbot28]

Bumping

Now since the Primals are banned...

: A+ to S

MMY is one of the best Mega's in the meta right now due to it losing opportunity cost from the primals. It's Protean set decimates teams who are not prepared for it and is overall a very powerful mon, who may be potentially be banworthy.

: A to A+

MMX is also a monster in the current meta, with it's Protean or -ate sets. Same as the other mega, due to the primals being banned, it's opportunity cost also decreased significantly. Could be potentially broken, but Mega Ray holds it back, as it is everywhere.

: A- to A

With the both Mewtwos running rampant in the tier, Aegislash carves itself a great niche being a nice check to them, as it possess a nice typing with great 60/150/150 bulk. It is also a great -ate check, and has an easier time with the removal of P-Don.

: B+ to A-/A

One of the best if not the best answers for -ate spam atm, having access to great typing, with good bulk. Provides great utility, and really enjoys the meta without the primals.

: A- to A

Pixilate Mega Diancie is so scary right now, losing a check in P-Don, it can destroy teams who don't have answer for it. Also loses opportunity cost without the primals, and good stop to Mega Ray without EQ.

: A- to B+/B

I feel that Shedinja is one of the most prepared for threats imo. Really every serious team has an answer for it one way or another. Good but prepared for.

P.S remove the primals :)

 

[Keep it Playful]

Bumping

: A- to B+/B

I feel that Shedinja is one of the most prepared for threats imo. Really every serious team has an answer for it one way or another. Good but prepared for.

I pretty much agree with all those viability changes, though I'm no expert on ranking mons, I would still say the undead bug deserves to be in the A tier. This is because even if a serious team has one or two answers, another serious player may be able to deal with all of the answers and then checkmate the opponent with Shedinja.

Also, I'd perhaps set Garchomp at least to the B Tier now that Primal Groudon is gone, due to it being the strongest Ground type physical attacker outside of Protean.

 

[tysequaine]

I pretty much agree with all those viability changes, though I'm no expert on ranking mons, I would still say the undead bug deserves to be in the A tier. This is because even if a serious team has one or two answers, another serious player may be able to deal with all of the answers and then checkmate the opponent with Shedinja.

Also, I'd perhaps set Garchomp at least to the B Tier now that Primal Groudon is gone, due to it being the strongest Ground type physical attacker outside of Protean.

Agreed on keeping Shedinja at A: serious Shedinja users have their team outfitted to keep Shedinja alive for use as an excellent defensive pivot. A primarily offensive Shedinja set is definitely far less reliable than A ranking, but it's virtually unmatched in its momentum-snatching abilities, provided you can keep rocks off the field and status away from the bug.

 

[Adrian Marin]

B+ to A-
I know Arceus isn't used very often in the current metagame, but it has been proven to be extremely effective. PH Arceus is very dangerous against offense and it is very hard to deal with in the long run. It also poses a huge threat against teams that must rely on Mega Rayquaza to deal with this set, as ice coverage makes short work of Mega Rayquaza. Its ability to slowly and consistently defeat opposers while having a decent defensive role should solidify its ranking as A-. E4 Flint and Piccolo Daimao can probably back me up here.

Other Pokemon that possibly deserve a better ranking are as follows: Regigigas, Lugia, Slaking, Hoopa-Unbound, Ho-Oh, Garchomp-Mega.

 

[CactusCacti]

So, should Blaziken-Mega now raise to D rank as Primal Groudon is out of the way from taking the contratory spotlight?

 

[Funbot28]

Can we like update this anytime soon?

Tagiing The Immortal Kit Kasai

 

[Kit Kasai]

sorry for the negligence, Piccolo Daimao is going to take over this thread since he's more active and actually plays the current BH meta.

 

[jackm]

Another thing, but we should probably drop Gourgeist-Super to Unranked now that Groudon-Primal is out of the way, because checking GP was its only real niche.

 

[jackm]

Come on guys, don't let this die.

Bumping

Now since the Primals are banned...

: A+ to S

MMY is one of the best Mega's in the meta right now due to it losing opportunity cost from the primals. It's Protean set decimates teams who are not prepared for it and is overall a very powerful mon, who may be potentially be banworthy.

: A to A+

MMX is also a monster in the current meta, with it's Protean or -ate sets. Same as the other mega, due to the primals being banned, it's opportunity cost also decreased significantly. Could be potentially broken, but Mega Ray holds it back, as it is everywhere.

: A- to A

With the both Mewtwos running rampant in the tier, Aegislash carves itself a great niche being a nice check to them, as it possess a nice typing with great 60/150/150 bulk. It is also a great -ate check, and has an easier time with the removal of P-Don.

: B+ to A-/A

One of the best if not the best answers for -ate spam atm, having access to great typing, with good bulk. Provides great utility, and really enjoys the meta without the primals.

: A- to A

Pixilate Mega Diancie is so scary right now, losing a check in P-Don, it can destroy teams who don't have answer for it. Also loses opportunity cost without the primals, and good stop to Mega Ray without EQ.

: A- to B+/B

I feel that Shedinja is one of the most prepared for threats imo. Really every serious team has an answer for it one way or another. Good but prepared for.

P.S remove the primals :)

I definitely agree with moving MMY up to S. As I teambuild, it increasingly is one of the things that I have to warp my defensive core around because it's just so goddamn powerful. If it can keep SR down (to stop Sturdinja and hypothetical Desolate Land Ho-Oh, which does surprisingly well against it on paper), pretty much nothing switches in safely.

On MMX, I'm not so sure. While its Protean sets are certainly scary, they suffer from the fact that they just aren't as uncounterable as MMY's. Fur Coat is a huge thorn in its side, and its -ate sets are pretty easily checked compared to those of Cray and Diancie-Mega. I think it can stay where it is for now in A.

Agree with Aegislash, the loss of Pdon is HUGE for its viability. Same with Registeel, and I would say it deserves A just because of how useful it is.

Personally, I would say Diancie-Mega even deserves A+ at this point. The combined loss of Pdon and Pogre is just so good for it, and it tears through certain Cray checks like Regirock with ease. Fairy is an amazing offensive typing, and being able to scare off Giratina with ease is huge. Plus there's a cool LO Magic Guard set you can run with Light of Ruin and Head Smash if you want to be a hipster.

Shedinja is kind of a tossup for me. Yes, it's prepared for, but so is Chansey and that doesn't hurt its viability. The fact of the matter is that, while unreliable, Shedinja is just so goddamn good and forcing things out and grabbing momentum. It needs a fuckton of team support, granted, but that's why it's not higher. I would be ok with A- or B+.

Also P.S. 500th post so woot woot