Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings MK III

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Deoxys-Attack D -> A- or B+
Not sure why this is down in D lol.
however, it isnt without its flaws. it needs a lot of team support: defog/spin, slow pivot moves to get it in safely, and a powerful priority user for if it gets impostered after its sash has been broken. also, its not as strong as other protean mons due to the lack of a boosting item, so it can sometimes miss important kills.
You answered it yourself. Also not to mention, there's Imposter-proof lategame cleaners with fewer weaknesses/support issues, such as Quick Feet Mega-Scept / Mega-Ray / Skymin (very niche compared to the other two, but still has a spot), all three of which can function as revenge killers and fast checks to even some stuff that's boosted their speed. I think even Speed Boost + Tail Glow Kyu-W requires less support to get in safely and start cleaning.

I can see maybe C, but not A or B. A-ranks should require little support than most Pokemon and B-ranks shouldn't need much beyond removing Imposter, Sheddy, and specific checks or counters. Dialga's a good example of a B-rank because its bulky, hits hard, and pretty much only needs Sheddy, Imposter, Groudon, and Xtwo removed for it to do its job effectively.
 
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Deoxys-A is surprisingly good with the current meta, so D does not do it much justice.
But B and A are still bit high for it due of its gigantic risk factor and support recruitments.

I'd honestly say that the C range would be justified for Deo-A.
 
Audino-M b ----> A-/B+

Mega Audino has a great place in the meta, with it's amazing defensive stats, and it's wide array of different uses. now ive been using it on a volt turn team as a magic bouncer and parting shot-er... and it fairs well against other pokemon unless they have contrary... mega audino does have many flaws, but it has pokemon to support it, like scizor-m, hell, even m-aggron... these two are all it needs to support m-audino against anything with a poison move, other than that it can take hits and widdle down the opponents... (if i'm stupid just say)
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Regarding Deo-A: I believe there has been some previous discussion about it much earlier about moving it up, and I agree that it is extremely powerful and has a unique ability to be "imposter proof" because of its weak defenses (as long as sash is up). However, it takes a huge amount of support to keep the sash up and to keep hazards away, and it's not like shed which can actually take hits, so I wouldn't put it higher than C or C+

Regarding Audino-Mega: I'm not really sure about this one. First off, it's bulk is pretty high, but it's not really that great when you consider that it has virtually no useful resists outside of Dark. The only useful things the typing gives is Dark resist and Ghost immunity (Dragon is rarely ever used). This leaves it a bit overshadowed by other defensive threats like Registeel, Aegislash, and Giratina. The main reason its ranked at B is because it doesn't have all the weaknesses the aforementioned pokemon have. I don't really think it's good enough to go higher than that.
 
Regarding Deo-A: I believe there has been some previous discussion about it much earlier about moving it up, and I agree that it is extremely powerful and has a unique ability to be "imposter proof" because of its weak defenses (as long as sash is up). However, it takes a huge amount of support to keep the sash up and to keep hazards away, and it's not like shed which can actually take hits, so I wouldn't put it higher than C or C+

Regarding Audino-Mega: I'm not really sure about this one. First off, it's bulk is pretty high, but it's not really that great when you consider that it has virtually no useful resists outside of Dark. The only useful things the typing gives is Dark resist and Ghost immunity (Dragon is rarely ever used). This leaves it a bit overshadowed by other defensive threats like Registeel, Aegislash, and Giratina. The main reason its ranked at B is because it doesn't have all the weaknesses the aforementioned pokemon have. I don't really think it's good enough to go higher than that.
I agree about Mega Audino, I think it fits just fine in B rank. And i've changed my mind about Deoxys-A I think C or C+ is a good fit.
 
I disagree with the people saying Deoxys-A deserves to be in C rank. I agree that A rank was maybe a bit too far, but it's definitely at least B rank material, maybe even B+. The biggest advantage that Deo-A has over other Proteans is its speed: base 150 speed puts it above just above just about every relevant mon in the game. In fact, its so fast that it can outspeed neutral nature Kyogre-P at +1! This means that, in addition to beating -ate and Imposter, Deo-A also beats the Mega Mewtwos, Mega Gengar, Mega Aerodactyl etc. without risking a speed tie, something most other Proteans cannot boast. Another huge advantage Deo-A has is the fact that it isn't restricted in its move choices by the need to beat Imposter. Other Protean mons have to be walled by something else on your team, meaning that, by extension, they can possibly be walled by something on your opponents team. Even anti-imposter Protean mons need to run sub-optimal moves in order to be Imposter-proof, whereas Deoxys is free to run whatever coverage it wants. And as for it needing too much support, it doesn't need any more support than Shedinja, which is up in A-rank. Also, the sash lets it check a lot of set-up sweepers which is p cool. Here's a replay of Deo-A being good:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-214166662
 
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Honestly, I think Deoxys-A is being underestimated a little. Despite its numerous flaws, its great offensive presence greatly outweighs them. Its successful and continued usage only proves its potency. Do you really think Deoxys-A belongs with C rank Pokemon such as Ho-Oh and whatnot? I believe Deoxys-A is deserving of C+ or B-. Let's alter our biased mindset a little; Deoxys-A has always been a controversial Pokemon in a sense, due to its poor use and ineffectiveness in the past; however, the metagame has changed a lot since then, and I think Deoxys-A is one of the best Protean Pokemons in the current metagame.
 
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ah, now i see about mega-audino, even though it has a great niche of bulk and countering a lot of different pokemon (like giratina with magic bounce, hell even alot of attacking pokemon.) (god im stupid XD)
 
I disagree with the people saying Deoxys-A deserves to be in C rank. I agree that A rank was maybe a bit too far, but it's definitely at least B rank material, maybe even B+. The biggest advantage that Deo-A has over other Proteans is its speed: base 150 speed puts it above just above just about every relevant mon in the game. In fact, its so fast that it can outspeed neutral nature Kyogre-P at +1! This means that, in addition to beating -ate and Imposter, Deo-A also beats the Mega Mewtwos, Mega Gengar, Mega Aerodactyl etc. without risking a speed tie, something most other Imposters cannot boast. Another huge advantage Deo-A has is the fact that it isn't restricted in its move choices by the need to beat Imposter. Other Protean mons have to be walled by something else on your team, meaning that, by extension, they can possibly be walled by something on your opponents team. Even anti-imposter Protean mons need to run sub-optimal moves in order to be Imposter-proof, whereas Deoxys is free to run whatever coverage it wants. And as for it needing too much support, it doesn't need any more support than Shedinja, which is up in A-rank. Also, the sash lets it check a lot of set-up sweepers which is p cool. Here's a replay of Deo-A being good:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-214166662
"Deoxys-Attack used Boomburst!
Deoxys-Attack's Protean made it the Normal type!
The opposing Chansey lost 89.2% of its health!"

0 SpA Protean Deoxys-A Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD Eviolite Chansey: 991-1167 (140.7 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mamp y u no adjust IVs and nature?
 
Well for Deo-A, it does have a great place in the current meta, but its frail and easily countered by mega-gengar and the mewtwos, hell, even other great megas in the game
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
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Well for Deo-A, it does have a great place in the current meta, but its frail and easily countered by mega-gengar and the mewtwos, hell, even other great megas in the game
Your definition of "counter" is completely and totally wrong. Counter essentially means they can switch in, take at least 2-3 hits, and outspeed + KO or threaten Deoxys-Attack out, or just wall it. Mega-Gengar and MMX/Y certainly cannot switch in and take 2 hits, let alone outspeed Deoxys-Attack itself barring a Choice Scarf (and if you're running Choice Scarf on any of these, tbh, you should really reconsider except in specific scenarios). MMX and M-Ray can KO with FakeSpeed if it switches in for free (and potentially MMY if you're running a lure set for M-Ray), so those are checks, not counters.
 
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"Deoxys-Attack used Boomburst!
Deoxys-Attack's Protean made it the Normal type!
The opposing Chansey lost 89.2% of its health!"

0 SpA Protean Deoxys-A Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD Eviolite Chansey: 991-1167 (140.7 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mamp y u no adjust IVs and nature?
Yeah, that was my b, i forgot to account for eviolite when i was EVing it. Boomburst easily OHKO's if you run negative SpDef nature+0 IV's.
 
Mamp : Sheddy requires less support than Deo-A, paradoxically, since Sturdinja can manually switch into nearly any attack and shrug it off and threaten a clean 2HKO on most of it at the same time (and even if they have Rocky Helmet, being dropped to 1 HP is practically a death sentence). Deo-A cannot manually switch into anything, not even status moves since it must use a Sash if it wants to accomplish anything of note while Sheddy often runs Lum to do it at least once. Additionally, if an Imposter happens to get their hands on your Deo-A set, or if they have two Imposters, prepare for ouchies. In contrast, something Impostering your Sheddy is usually just a joke and a loss of momentum for your opponent.

Actually, now that I think of it, double Imposter is a good point against Deo-A. The "live a hit with Sturdy" gimmick works on one Imposter, but trying to take down two like that is incredibly risky. And if it fails, which it has a very high chance to, now you have to deal with your Deo-A. Possibly without any sort of dedicated check or counter to it since your Deo-A was supposed to check itself. IMO, a properly Imposter resistant or immune set should be able to handle double Imposter reliably, not based on winning two speed ties.

I'm just opposed to it going to B, let alone A, by virtue of the sheer amount of support it needs. It's very difficult to get in safely and its sweep can be quickly ended by all sorts of random stuff that either happens to survive a hit or carries priority. Or worse, Water Shuriken. Once it's in, it's a friggin' nuke, but we also have a lot of other friggin' nukes that are much easier to leverage.
 
Mamp : Sheddy requires less support than Deo-A, paradoxically, since Sturdinja can manually switch into nearly any attack and shrug it off and threaten a clean 2HKO on most of it at the same time (and even if they have Rocky Helmet, being dropped to 1 HP is practically a death sentence). Deo-A cannot manually switch into anything, not even status moves since it must use a Sash if it wants to accomplish anything of note while Sheddy often runs Lum to do it at least once. Additionally, if an Imposter happens to get their hands on your Deo-A set, or if they have two Imposters, prepare for ouchies. In contrast, something Impostering your Sheddy is usually just a joke and a loss of momentum for your opponent.

Actually, now that I think of it, double Imposter is a good point against Deo-A. The "live a hit with Sturdy" gimmick works on one Imposter, but trying to take down two like that is incredibly risky. And if it fails, which it has a very high chance to, now you have to deal with your Deo-A. Possibly without any sort of dedicated check or counter to it since your Deo-A was supposed to check itself. IMO, a properly Imposter resistant or immune set should be able to handle double Imposter reliably, not based on winning two speed ties.

I'm just opposed to it going to B, let alone A, by virtue of the sheer amount of support it needs. It's very difficult to get in safely and its sweep can be quickly ended by all sorts of random stuff that either happens to survive a hit or carries priority. Or worse, Water Shuriken. Once it's in, it's a friggin' nuke, but we also have a lot of other friggin' nukes that are much easier to leverage.
Deo-A is actually pretty easy to anti-imposter, as any powerful priority move, like -ate or Protean ExtremeSpeed cleanly OHKO's it.
 
Deo-A is actually pretty easy to anti-imposter, as any powerful priority move, like -ate or Protean ExtremeSpeed cleanly OHKO's it.
Not to mention a pursuit user that can handle deoxys-a can easily remove impostered deoxys-a, even if it has eviolite thanks to it's piss-poor defense.
Mega Gyarados in particular can cause mind games with sucker punch + pursuit (although mega gyarados easily dies to close combat variants, but i was just saying).
 
I don't think M-Scept is a D-ranked..I mean, it's a really good Special sweeper. Not much people use it, but if they did, the people would know how strong it is. This is my set:
Sceptile-Mega (F) @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Contrary
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Psycho Boost
- Leaf Storm
- Draco Meteor
It's stupidly high Spe lets it outspeeds most pokemon, even legendaries. Use Leaf Storm (or SE moves)on any thing appears to get a boost, then just grab the broom. It can also makes a good support. This is another set of mine:
Sceptile-Mega (F) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
The Spe is high enough for support. You may say: "Deo-spe is better" or whatever. I agree, but just beware of Sucker Punch. And since no OHKO moves, Deo-spe has lose one of it's best movepool. Besides, Scept have more relyable healing, plus, it don't scare of Taunt. I think it suits in C or even B-.
 
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I don't think M-Scept is a D-ranked..I mean, it's a really good Special sweeper. Not much people use it, but if they did, the people would know how strong it is. This is my set:
Sceptile-Mega (F) @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Contrary
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Psycho Boost
- Leaf Storm
- Draco Meteor
It's stupidly high Spe lets it outspeeds most pokemon, even legendaries. Use Leaf Storm (or SE moves)on any thing appears to get a boost, then just grab the broom. It can also makes a good support. This is another set of mine:
Sceptile-Mega (F) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
The Spe is high enough for support. You may say: "Deo-spe is better" or whatever. I agree, but just beware of Sucker Punch. And since no OHKO moves, Deo-spe has lose one of it's best movepool. Besides, Scept have more relyable healing, plus, it don't scare of Taunt. I think it suits in B- or even B+.
To be honest, mega Sceptile only really performs well on mono-sceptile teams. Otherwise Mega Sceptile is kinda average really and about as useful as the other D ranked pokemon. I think its fine where it is.
The problems with Sceptile is that it's ridiculously weak to -ates, and almost every set is outclassed by other attackers. The only niche it has (i can think of at least) is it's spore-immunity and blazing fast speed.
 
Yeah, it's pretty hard to justify using M-Sceptile over the plethora of more powerful/less frail/less -ate weak special attackers. Although it does have a small niche in that it outspeeds MM2Y and is immune to Spore, it's not enough to push it out of D imo.
 
Mamp I like donkeys I thought the whole reason, or a big one really, Deo-A was being hyped up as a great Protean was its inherent Anti-Imposter resistance, allowing it to deal with them on its own via Focus Sash. Doesn't needing a priority/Pursuit abuser to check an Imposter of your Deo-A defeat the purpose of that?

I mean, from what I'm gathering, to use Deo-A effectively, you need...

-Focus Sash, to survive a hit, particularly from Imposters
-A way to safely and reliably switch after the opponent has moved, since Deo-A can't switch into anything at all. This means at least one slow Parting Shot/Volturn user.
-Removal of priority damage on the opposing side, particularly bulky priority.
-Removal of priority or bulky status, particularly Spore/Dark Voice, since Deo-A has no way to deal with that.
-Removal of hazards, since even 1 HP of damage means Deo-A will drop as soon as Weedle switches in safely.
-Weakening or removal of pretty much anything that can take a hit, since Deo-A can only take two hits period. Or one if its Sash is removed or negated somehow.
-Removal of at least one Imposter since two is risky.
-A Pokemon that can reliably check and revenge kill an Imposter just in case.
-Shedinja removal, if not running an anti-Sheddy move.

That's... a hell of a lot of support required for one Pokemon to get into a specific situation to get going. Especially when there's other nukes in the meta that require less support in general to function, let alone get in.

Compare to Kyurem-W at B-, who needs...

-A good switch-in opportunity, such as into a weak attack, a resisted attack, or into a status move it doesn't care about, the latter of which is easier with a Lum Berry or Safety Goggles. A slow Volturn is helpful, but not necessary.
-Removal of hazards is handy since its weak to Rocks, but not entirely necessary since it still has reasonable bulk
-Removal or weakening of faster or bulky priority. Less necessary if Kyu-W has its own priority.
-Removal or weakening of priority or bulky status. Less necessary if Kyu-W has Lum Berry, Safety Goggles, or its a burn and Kyu-W isn't using Fakespeed.
-Weakening of checks so they can't switch in to check. There isn't much that can switch into Fridge Boomburst, however, and Kyu-W can remove its own checks with the right coverage, usually Earth Power or Bolt Strike.
-Removal of Imposter or an Imposter Counter. Imposter cannot repeatedly switch into Boomburst, so Kyu-W can take its own down over time.
-Removal of Sheddy, if not running an anti-Sheddy move or Rocky Helmet.

It looks like similar support, but most of the support needed is situational to Kyu-W's moves and item selection and isn't always necessary and, in fact, if the right team synergy is in place, it doesn't need specific support and, against some teams (noob teams don't count), it can even operate virtually independently. In contrast, Deo-A NEEDS support against nearly any competitive team (or maybe all of them) just by the virtue of it not being able to switch in on anything or if hazards are up.

Again, I'm not opposed to Deo-A moving up at all. I just feel even B- would be too high just by virtue of the amount of support needed. Oddly, the fact that it has bulk on par with Sheddy but more HP is what makes it so, so much harder to use than the undead bug.

------

As for Sceptile, I think it might have untapped potential, but being weak to all -ate priority really stings. It has a pretty good Contrary typing, but I think its Sheer Force set is better and more reliable since it can hit like a truck without needing to "get going". A Quick Feet set with Ice Beam can also counter Imposters nearly every time (burned, poisoned, and Scarfed Imposters notwithstanding) and can tear through a team quite easily once the stage is set. However, until the metagame shifts in its favor or a new, effective set or two is discovered for it, I don't really see it moving up. And even then, no higher than the C-ranks.
 
I mean, from what I'm gathering, to use Deo-A effectively, you need...

-Focus Sash, to survive a hit, particularly from Imposters
-A way to safely and reliably switch after the opponent has moved, since Deo-A can't switch into anything at all. This means at least one slow Parting Shot/Volturn user.
-Removal of priority damage on the opposing side, particularly bulky priority.
-Removal of priority or bulky status, particularly Spore/Dark Voice, since Deo-A has no way to deal with that.
-Removal of hazards, since even 1 HP of damage means Deo-A will drop as soon as Weedle switches in safely.
-Weakening or removal of pretty much anything that can take a hit, since Deo-A can only take two hits period. Or one if its Sash is removed or negated somehow.
-Removal of at least one Imposter since two is risky.
-A Pokemon that can reliably check and revenge kill an Imposter just in case.
-Shedinja removal, if not running an anti-Sheddy move.

That's... a hell of a lot of support required for one Pokemon to get into a specific situation to get going. Especially when there's other nukes in the meta that require less support in general to function, let alone get in.
Deoxys-A sets with Spiky Shield allow it to sponge prankster spores and provides protection against Shedinja. Even if the opponent has 2 imposters (which I have NEVER seen before), none of them can switch in without getting bopped, so a lot of the time one of their teammates has to die before Chansey can safely switch in. And it's not like it's any issue packing a reliable imposter check, any -ate user is more than enough to handle imposter'd Deoxys-A, pretty much every offensive team has to run some kind of -ate user thanks to -ate's delicious power. If you're in a late-game situation, then Deoxys-A sometimes won't even need a focus sash because it's ridiculous offensive stats allow it to clean up once priority is removed, you speak as if Deoxys-A is deadweight if hazards are up. You underestimate focus sash by the way, sure Deoxys-A can only survive 2 hits, but that's a GUARANTEED 2 hits (unless infestation or something), whereas other powerful attacks (the Mewtwos and Mega Gengar for example) are OHKO'd by a plethora of powerful Pokemon in the tier.
Deoxys-A also has another benefit over other powerful attackers - it's fantastic mixed attacking stats allow it to go mixed very effectively.
I say Deoxys-A is worthy of C+ or B- rank.
 
I would like to nominate Mega Blaziken to enter the list at D Rank. It has a great Attack stat and is fast enough to outspeed a decent chunk of unboosted mons to release its most destructive move on the first turn - Contrary V-Create, coming off STAB on M-Blaziken's base 160 Attack and boosting its defences and speed by one stage each. It also has access to STAB Superpower and Close Combat, which also trigger its Contrary. More coverage can be obtained with any of the special nukes (Leaf Storm, Draco Meteor, etc.), or with Dragon Ascent. The final move can be personal preference. Toxic can be helpful to beat Sturdy Shedinja.
 
I would like to nominate Mega Blaziken to enter the list at D Rank. It has a great Attack stat and is fast enough to outspeed a decent chunk of unboosted mons to release its most destructive move on the first turn - Contrary V-Create, coming off STAB on M-Blaziken's base 160 Attack and boosting its defences and speed by one stage each. It also has access to STAB Superpower and Close Combat, which also trigger its Contrary. More coverage can be obtained with any of the special nukes (Leaf Storm, Draco Meteor, etc.), or with Dragon Ascent. The final move can be personal preference. Toxic can be helpful to beat Sturdy Shedinja.
Mega-Blaziken is severely outclassed by alot of different pokemon, and there are much better contrary users, and toxic would be a waste of a moveslot. it is very outclassed by primal-groudon in alot of different ways, it is also countered by aerilate mega ray and pixilate mega diancie, 2 of the biggest sweepers and must haves for a team, it would need alot of team support, being countered by anything gale wings or anything it is weak to. it is fine at it's unranked spot.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think mega blaziken is the highest BST/Attack fire/fighting type which makes it have the best niche for Super Power & V-create STAB bombing Contratory.
So honestly, it could probably get D mention out of that factor, cause while as STAB V-create is nice that many other contratory users have, many still tend to lack STAB SuperPower that can be a big help against flash fire steel types at times that could normally survive non stab super power.

Tho it still isn't -THAT- great it still is a niche tho.
 
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