Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings MK III

Status
Not open for further replies.
First post, so give me likes yay...
Latias-Mega and Latios-Mega B- -> B These twins are extremely strong with Soul Dew equipped. With their solid Speed stat, it's also quite easy for them to outpace almost all opposing pivots. Mewtwo-Y may seem better, but the twins do have considerably more bulk and power. Protean is better on Mewtwo-Y, so let's talk about Adaptability. Mega Latios can make use of his great Dragon-type STAB to obliterate the opposition. Plus, the freedom to choose its moves is rather great for a wallbreaker. The combination of Psystrike and Draco Meteor on an Adapt set is virtually impossible to wall.
Agreed, Latios Mega should be moved to at least B, if not higher. There is nothing that can wall it. Although it has a lackluster speed, that does not really matter much, as it can easily secure kills every single time it switches in. Even without Adaptability, the Psystrike and Draco Meteor combo hits everything, save Shed, which is killed with Magma Storm/support. This isn't used nearly enough as it should be. On the other hand, I'd say Latias Mega should stay where it is. With mediocre physical bulk, and a typing weak to Knock Off, U-turn, and ghost Judgment, it pretty much loses all tanking it can possibly have. Offensively, it is completely outclassed by Latios Mega as well.

In my opinion, Audino Mega sucks. To those using to "counter" Mega Gengar, how well does it actually do the job? The physically defensive sets are 2'd by a +3 Modest Aura Sphere, while the specially defensive ones still get 2HKO'd by Secret Sword. Not to mention that a single Sludge Wave would 2HKO without a boost. Audino also can do practically nothing as Gengar bombards it with attacks, except for spam Recover, phaze it out, or Haze/Topsy Turvy. It also loses to practically all common wallbreakers, like Mega Rayquaza or Primal Groudon.
 
First post, so give me likes yay...Agreed, Latios Mega should be moved to at least B, if not higher. There is nothing that can wall it. Although it has a lackluster speed, that does not really matter much, as it can easily secure kills every single time it switches in. Even without Adaptability, the Psystrike and Draco Meteor combo hits everything, save Shed, which is killed with Magma Storm/support. This isn't used nearly enough as it should be. On the other hand, I'd say Latias Mega should stay where it is. With mediocre physical bulk, and a typing weak to Knock Off, U-turn, and ghost Judgment, it pretty much loses all tanking it can possibly have. Offensively, it is completely outclassed by Latios Mega as well.

In my opinion, Audino Mega sucks. To those using to "counter" Mega Gengar, how well does it actually do the job? The physically defensive sets are 2'd by a +3 Modest Aura Sphere, while the specially defensive ones still get 2HKO'd by Secret Sword. Not to mention that a single Sludge Wave would 2HKO without a boost. Audino also can do practically nothing as Gengar bombards it with attacks, except for spam Recover, phaze it out, or Haze/Topsy Turvy. It also loses to practically all common wallbreakers, like Mega Rayquaza or Primal Groudon.
Latios mega used Magma Storm! Shedinja held on with Sturdy! Shedinja used Parting Shot! js. and RegenVest yveltal tanks it pretty well tbh
No one runs aura sphere gengar mega,tbh. and No one runs sludge wave either. It's always shell smash/spookyjudg/secretsword/filler (usually spore/infest or something like that)
sorry to shoot you down,but i disagree with you on these things.
 
Yveltal doesn't wall Mega Latios at all. After a layer of rocks, it can't even reliably switch in. Let me give you some calcs: Timid Soul Dew Mega Latios Magma Storm vs 252 HP 252 Sp. Def Calm Assult Vest Yveltal: 20.3-24.1%. Same Latios does 39.6-46.9% with Draco Meteor to the Yveltal. If Yveltal switches in on a Magma Storm, assume it takes 20.3 (the minimum damage). It then proceeds to take 12.5% from the end turn damage. After this, Draco does a minimum of 39.6%. This all adds up to 72.4%, leaving Yveltal with 27.6% maximum. This all assumes Yveltal has no prior damage and no hazards are up. And believe me, this isn't easy to keep up. Just Magma Storm + Volt Switch does 61.3%. Then the next time Mega Latios comes in, Yveltal is practically dead. And if you think Yveltal can attack back with Pursuit/Sucker Punch, 4 Attack Careful Yveltal only does 72.1-86%. In addition, Mega Latios running Adaptability hits even harder, and the Contrary sets actually kill Yveltal with a double Draco Meteor from 100%.
About Mega Audino, what can it even do to Mega Gengar? Gengar can just continue to set up while Audino watches. In addition, just because not many people use Aura Sphere or Sludge Wave Mega Gengar doesn't completely eliminate the threat. In saying it's not common, you commit a logical fallacy. If your team relies completely on Mega Audino to counter Mega Gengar, just one random person using Sludge Wave would destroy you. I'm just pointing out flaws with Mega Audino as a counter to Mega Gengar.
 
Lati@s loses its Soul Dew if it stays in on nearly any Yveltal that can take a hit, crippling it for the rest of the match. (In fact, reliance on Soul Dew NOT getting Knocked Off/Tricked is a hindrance since a bad switch-in gimps your Lati@s.) Additionally, with Defog being very common and spin not far behind, you can't ensure Rocks are always up, especially since you'll probably have to Defog too if the opponent dumps Rocks on you.

Audino would deal with Gengar like any of the more passive answers to set-up sweepers would do, such as Topsy-Turvy, Haze, Perish Song, Heart Swap, Encore, Destiny Bond, Whirlwind, etc. Really depends on the set. Audino could probably hit a Smashing Gengar pretty hard too since Gengar is frail, doesn't run bulk, and is reducing its bulk even more.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Moving Lati@s to B and Cress to B, the rest of B rank is staying as is for now.

Moving on to C and D rank, here are a few thoughts I have:

C -> C+ (or higher?) In XY, Lugia was for the most part completely unviable because of the huge popularity of Kyub and Gengar. Now I think it has the potential to be a lot more useful of a support pokemon. It has a similar niche to Arceus, being a bulky pokemon with a lot of speed. I think Lugia has the potential to run a variety of support sets effectively, including Poison Heal, Fur Coat and Magic Bounce.

C -> C- Although it has decent offensive stats and an interesting STAB combination, its subpar bulk and shabby defensive typing gives it very few opportunities to actually get in and hit something. Not to mention its average speed makes it susceptible to getting bop'd before it even fires off a shot. As Adrian mentioned, it still has uses in being able to use Adapt to break things with its strong STAB, as being able to utilizing its STABs with contrary. I just feel like the risk involved in using it and the support needed to get it in to actually do something outweighs the benefits.

C -> C- Venusaur has very interesting defensive typing and decent bulk, but I feel its typing isn't as relevant in the current meta. First off, two of the most popular attackers in the tier, Groudon and Rayquaza, completely plow through it with little effort. It also struggles to counter Kyogre now as many are running Ice Beam over Moonblast for coverage. I guess it has a decent niche being a poison type, allowing it to wall Diancie decently, but I don't see it being very useful otherwise.

D -> Unranked I brought this up once in chat some time ago in chat but I want to post this again here so more people can see it. Does Alakazam really have a notable enough niche over Deoxys-A to be ranked? Right now the only niche it has is its speed, which allows it to outpace the Mewtwos. But Deo-A has the same speed benchmark, higher SpA, and the ability to go mixed. I know Alakazam has a bit more defenses than Deo-A, but without investment it's still pretty much a paper thin glass cannon.

Any other thoughts on the mons ranked C - D (or continuing some of the discussion of the B ranked mons)?
 

Uselesscrab

if you still had the bones of an idol
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Moving Lati@s to B and Cress to B, the rest of B rank is staying as is for now.

Moving on to C and D rank, here are a few thoughts I have:

C -> C+ (or higher?) In XY, Lugia was for the most part completely unviable because of the huge popularity of Kyub and Gengar. Now I think it has the potential to be a lot more useful of a support pokemon. It has a similar niche to Arceus, being a bulky pokemon with a lot of speed. I think Lugia has the potential to run a variety of support sets effectively, including Poison Heal, Fur Coat and Magic Bounce.
Not sure about this one. Lugia could use some testing. I think it has untapped potential, and it has to break free from the stigmas it developed in XY. It'll also be good for it if Arrows gets banned.

C -> C- Although it has decent offensive stats and an interesting STAB combination, its subpar bulk and shabby defensive typing gives it very few opportunities to actually get in and hit something. Not to mention its average speed makes it susceptible to getting bop'd before it even fires off a shot. As Adrian mentioned, it still has uses in being able to use Adapt to break things with its strong STAB, as being able to utilizing its STABs with contrary. I just feel like the risk involved in using it and the support needed to get it in to actually do something outweighs the benefits.
I think I proposed this, so yeah, supporting.

C -> C- Venusaur has very interesting defensive typing and decent bulk, but I feel its typing isn't as relevant in the current meta. First off, two of the most popular attackers in the tier, Groudon and Rayquaza, completely plow through it with little effort. It also struggles to counter Kyogre now as many are running Ice Beam over Moonblast for coverage. I guess it has a decent niche being a poison type, allowing it to wall Diancie decently, but I don't see it being very useful otherwise.
I agree; its defensive typing is extremely bad right now. I used to use it all the time, too :(

D -> Unranked I brought this up once in chat some time ago in chat but I want to post this again here so more people can see it. Does Alakazam really have a notable enough niche over Deoxys-A to be ranked? Right now the only niche it has is its speed, which allows it to outpace the Mewtwos. But Deo-A has the same speed benchmark, higher SpA, and the ability to go mixed. I know Alakazam has a bit more defenses than Deo-A, but without investment it's still pretty much a paper thin glass cannon.

Any other thoughts on the mons ranked C - D (or continuing some of the discussion of the B ranked mons)?
I'm not 100% sure about this, but it makes sense, I suppose. I haven't tested either Pokemon enough to make any good points.
 
C -> C+ In XY, Lugia was for the most part completely unviable because of the huge popularity of Kyub and Gengar. Now I think it has the potential to be a lot more useful of a support pokemon. It has a similar niche to Arceus, being a bulky pokemon with a lot of speed. I think Lugia has the potential to run a variety of support sets effectively, including Poison Heal, Fur Coat and Magic Bounce.
yeah,but its weakness to rocks is another problem with it. and also...guess who made Kyu-B popular in the first place. ahem kit,your kagome kagome. Before that,it was semi-viable,but still not as preferred as some pokes like kektina. I agree with a promotion to C+.

C -> C- Although it has decent offensive stats and an interesting STAB combination, its subpar bulk and shabby defensive typing gives it very few opportunities to actually get in and hit something. Not to mention its average speed makes it susceptible to getting bop'd before it even fires off a shot. As Adrian mentioned, it still has uses in being able to use Adapt to break things with its strong STAB, as being able to utilizing its STABs with contrary. I just feel like the risk involved in using it and the support needed to get it in to actually do something outweighs the benefits.
indeed...lower than average,especially for a sweeper. Along with the other flaws of it and its lack to successfully pull off a useful job,I'd say D or D+.

C -> C- Venusaur has very interesting defensive typing and decent bulk, but I feel its typing isn't as relevant in the current meta. First off, two of the most popular attackers in the tier, Groudon and Rayquaza, completely plow through it with little effort. It also struggles to counter Kyogre now as many are running Ice Beam over Moonblast for coverage. I guess it has a decent niche being a poison type, allowing it to wall Diancie decently, but I don't see it being very useful otherwise.
It's great for being spore-resistant and still has amazing bulk. Rayq's popularity is also dying,which is improving Venu even more. some people run PrimSea Venu to stop don from keking it. stay at C imo

D -> Unranked I brought this up once in chat some time ago in chat but I want to post this again here so more people can see it. Does Alakazam really have a notable enough niche over Deoxys-A to be ranked? Right now the only niche it has is its speed, which allows it to outpace the Mewtwos. But Deo-A has the same speed benchmark, higher SpA, and the ability to go mixed. I know Alakazam has a bit more defenses than Deo-A, but without investment it's still pretty much a paper thin glass cannon.
agreed. thin as paper, inferior to Deo-A in all ways because they're both thin as paper,and only niche is outspeeding mewtwos. Unranked
 
C -> C+ (or higher?) In XY, Lugia was for the most part completely unviable because of the huge popularity of Kyub and Gengar. Now I think it has the potential to be a lot more useful of a support pokemon. It has a similar niche to Arceus, being a bulky pokemon with a lot of speed. I think Lugia has the potential to run a variety of support sets effectively, including Poison Heal, Fur Coat and Magic Bounce.
I'd vote higher. Even with 1k Arrows being a thing, it's still immune to Precipice Blades and Earth Power. Not to mention, also immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web. Fridge and Gengar weaknesses are less relevant now and Lugia can run Delta Stream to eliminate Fridge and all of its other Flying-weaknesses while also harassing weather strategies. It also actually has better overall bulk than Cress.

252 SpA Arceus Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Cresselia: 144-169 (32.4 - 38%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Arceus Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Cresselia: 129-153 (29 - 34.4%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Arceus Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Lugia: 126-148 (30.2 - 35.5%) -- 36.1% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Arceus Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Lugia: 123-145 (29.5 - 34.8%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO

(Move/spread choice is for illustration purposes only and does not reflect an actual set for either side.)


C -> C- Although it has decent offensive stats and an interesting STAB combination, its subpar bulk and shabby defensive typing gives it very few opportunities to actually get in and hit something. Not to mention its average speed makes it susceptible to getting bop'd before it even fires off a shot. As Adrian mentioned, it still has uses in being able to use Adapt to break things with its strong STAB, as being able to utilizing its STABs with contrary. I just feel like the risk involved in using it and the support needed to get it in to actually do something outweighs the benefits.
I've not used Reshy enough lately to have any opinion on this. Though it's still worth noting that it takes neutral from all of Kyo-P's common moves, unlike pretty much every other Fire-type.

C -> C- Venusaur has very interesting defensive typing and decent bulk, but I feel its typing isn't as relevant in the current meta. First off, two of the most popular attackers in the tier, Groudon and Rayquaza, completely plow through it with little effort. It also struggles to counter Kyogre now as many are running Ice Beam over Moonblast for coverage. I guess it has a decent niche being a poison type, allowing it to wall Diancie decently, but I don't see it being very useful otherwise.
I pretty much agree with this. Additionally, its Black Sludge Trick is pretty much expected at this point.

D -> Unranked I brought this up once in chat some time ago in chat but I want to post this again here so more people can see it. Does Alakazam really have a notable enough niche over Deoxys-A to be ranked? Right now the only niche it has is its speed, which allows it to outpace the Mewtwos. But Deo-A has the same speed benchmark, higher SpA, and the ability to go mixed. I know Alakazam has a bit more defenses than Deo-A, but without investment it's still pretty much a paper thin glass cannon.
Also pretty much agree. If there was an E-rank, it'd fit there nicely since, while it does have a niche, it's an incredibly small niche.


Any other thoughts on the mons ranked C - D (or continuing some of the discussion of the B ranked mons)?
Skarmory is worth keeping an eye on in case 1k Arrows go out the window, as that move is pretty much the one thing holding it back. But until then, I don't propose any movement on it.
 

Uselesscrab

if you still had the bones of an idol
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Reviving this thread!

Altaria-Mega from Unlisted to D.
It has a niche as an Unaware or Fur Coat user by virtue of its excellent typing, allowing it to resist all common Contrary moves but Psycho Boost. Has good stats all around.

Sableye-Mega from Unlisted to D. It has excellent bulk, only one weakness, and the ability to check Mega Gengar rather well.

Gourgeist-Super from Unlisted to D. One of the few Pokemon capable of countering most Primal Groudon sets if given Primordial Sea, and has immunity to Spore and Shedinja's Endeavor because of its unusual typing.

Xerneas from B+ to B. Outclassed by Mega Diancie offensively, mostly outclassed by Mega Audino defensively. It's not on the level of its fellow denizens of B+ Rank.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Reviving this thread!
Altaria-Mega from Unlisted to D. It has a niche as an Unaware or Fur Coat user by virtue of its excellent typing, allowing it to resist all common Contrary moves but Psycho Boost. Has good stats all around.

Sableye-Mega from Unlisted to D. It has excellent bulk, only one weakness, and the ability to check Mega Gengar rather well.

Gourgeist-Super from Unlisted to D. One of the few Pokemon capable of countering most Primal Groudon sets if given Primordial Sea, and has immunity to Spore and Shedinja's Endeavor because of its unusual typing.

Xerneas from B+ to B. Outclassed by Mega Diancie offensively, mostly outclassed by Mega Audino defensively. It's not on the level of its fellow denizens of B+ Rank.
Agreeing with Altaria for D rank.

I don't think sable has enough of a niche to really be ranked. Its bulk is not actually that great and while it has only one weakness, it doesn't have any useful resists. Also I don't really see what sable can do to gengar lol.

Agreeing with Gourgeist, has a niche because of its typing.

Agree with Xerneas to B.

I think this thread is kinda dead because the meta is relatively stable right now and there haven't really been any new innovations. Maybe when assist is dealt with it'll open up opportunities for exploring new things?
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Reviving this thread!
Altaria-Mega from Unlisted to D. It has a niche as an Unaware or Fur Coat user by virtue of its excellent typing, allowing it to resist all common Contrary moves but Psycho Boost. Has good stats all around.

Sableye-Mega from Unlisted to D. It has excellent bulk, only one weakness, and the ability to check Mega Gengar rather well.

Gourgeist-Super from Unlisted to D. One of the few Pokemon capable of countering most Primal Groudon sets if given Primordial Sea, and has immunity to Spore and Shedinja's Endeavor because of its unusual typing.

Xerneas from B+ to B. Outclassed by Mega Diancie offensively, mostly outclassed by Mega Audino defensively. It's not on the level of its fellow denizens of B+ Rank.
mmm...the problem with altaria is its got no niche in the current meta, unaware and fur coat are both destrolished by the common physical attackers, and the problem with altaria vs contrary, is the three best contrary users have psychoboost as their main stab. :\ i have to disagree. it has niche...but such a small one i dont see why we should rank it.

sable-no...kit kasai points this out better then i could. plus its horrendously frail.

gourgeist-im down with gorgeist, its a perfect counter to groudon with primordial sea/flash fire, and it actually can support its team with spore and leech seed, while being imposter proof too.

xern...agreed.
 
Got some suggestions:

Move Dialga up to B+

Dialga is really good in the current meta. It's most well known for its Tinted Lens Doom Desire set (which is incredible in bh atm), but it can also run a very potent Regenvest set that checks most variants of Ray, Diancie, Kyogre, and a lot of other common mons. It's a very valuable asset to balance teams in bh rn, definitely deserves to move up.

Move Gengar-Mega up to A+

Lmao what is this doing down below Blissey, this is thing is still an absolute monster in bh. So little can switch into Judgement, and most of the mons that can are donked by Secret Sword. It can even run crap like Moonblast or Sludge Wave to hit Yveltal and Audino, it's only real reliable counters. It can run so many different abilities viably as well, so it's very unpredictable; I even saw a Fur Coat set w/King's Shield to avoid getting checked by Ray. I think ppl are sleeping on Gar bc Ray checks it, but Ray sure as hell doesn't want to switch into Judgement. It's also very nice to have a Mold Breaker that can switch into Shed's Endeavor. This is still one of the best mons in BH
 
Reviving this thread!
Altaria-Mega from Unlisted to D. It has a niche as an Unaware or Fur Coat user by virtue of its excellent typing, allowing it to resist all common Contrary moves but Psycho Boost. Has good stats all around.

Sableye-Mega from Unlisted to D. It has excellent bulk, only one weakness, and the ability to check Mega Gengar rather well.

Gourgeist-Super from Unlisted to D. One of the few Pokemon capable of countering most Primal Groudon sets if given Primordial Sea, and has immunity to Spore and Shedinja's Endeavor because of its unusual typing.

Xerneas from B+ to B. Outclassed by Mega Diancie offensively, mostly outclassed by Mega Audino defensively. It's not on the level of its fellow denizens of B+ Rank.
Holy shit, Gourgeist-Super actually seems pretty viable to me. I agree it should be in D rank or maybe even C-
I agree with M-Altaria.
Is Sableye-Mega worthy of being in D rank? It's not very bulky when compared to other threats in BH and i dont see how it checks mega gengar?
I think Xerneas should be lower, it's not nearly as good as it was in XY. I mean, what can Xerneas do that Mega Diancie or Mega Audino can't? I think B- would be a good fit.

Gourgeist-Super seems interesting and i want to try it out, does anyone have any cool movesets I could use for it?
 
Holy shit, Gourgeist-Super actually seems pretty viable to me.Gourgeist-Super seems interesting and i want to try it out, does anyone have any cool movesets I could use for it?
Max defense and a recovery move and sometimes a switching move, the rest pretty much depends on your team. I had thousand waves to trap my own groudon. Leech seed / spore is also good since it doesn't care about mb and deals with shed. It might be less viable if assists get's banned but still counters most version of groudon. Also counters a lot of phisical protean who run bolt strike / v-create / Espeed wich is sometimes usefull but lost popularity because of the rise of fur coat.

I've used both mega altaria and mega sableye quite a lot and mega sableye is just really really frail for bh, it has a niche, mostly being able to switch on psystrike and fighting covreage while also blocking shedninja. But it's so weak i don't see the point of ranking it.
Mega altaria has a niche because of it's typing (I used the fur coat set, the unaware set and a sub + psycho shift ph version to take advantage of my other mons getting impostered and to counter doom desire dialga) I think it would be good to rank it just to remember that it exists but it's really hard to fit on a team and is outclassed most of the time. Every time i used it was because i needed this specific typing to counter specific threats. The fur coat set was the overall best since a lot of phisical protean only run draco meteor as special coverage and the unaware set was too weak to tank a dragon ascend anyway.
 
Max defense and a recovery move and sometimes a switching move, the rest pretty much depends on your team. I had thousand waves to trap my own groudon. Leech seed / spore is also good since it doesn't care about mb and deals with shed. It might be less viable if assists get's banned but still counters most version of groudon. Also counters a lot of phisical protean who run bolt strike / v-create / Espeed wich is sometimes usefull but lost popularity because of the rise of fur coat.

I've used both mega altaria and mega sableye quite a lot and mega sableye is just really really frail for bh, it has a niche, mostly being able to switch on psystrike and fighting covreage while also blocking shedninja. But it's so weak i don't see the point of ranking it.
Mega altaria has a niche because of it's typing (I used the fur coat set, the unaware set and a sub + psycho shift ph version to take advantage of my other mons getting impostered and to counter doom desire dialga) I think it would be good to rank it just to remember that it exists but it's really hard to fit on a team and is outclassed most of the time. Every time i used it was because i needed this specific typing to counter specific threats. The fur coat set was the overall best since a lot of phisical protean only run draco meteor as special coverage and the unaware set was too weak to tank a dragon ascend anyway.
Thanks for the advice :3
To be honest though i dont think protean MMX has lowered in usage. MMX is on most teams, and most of the time its either protean or -ate.
 

wishes

clarity
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Mega Altaria is the one Pokemon I've been using consistently in BH from the time of its arrival. It's very good as a Fur Coat wall thanks to its great typing, as Uselesscrab has stated, but I've also been using offensive variants and they're actually quite good. A simple Poison Heal set of Shift Gear / King's Shield / Play Rough / Roost is a great cleaner later in the match when Steel-types are taken out of the way. Lcass has a general concern, but I really don't see it. What "common physical attackers" blast right through it? It's definitely a D Rank Pokemon, but nothing higher and nothing less.

Also, Mega Sableye is incredibly underrated by y'all. I've also been using this thing because of its typing and ability to combat a lot of physical attackers well. Funnily enough, Mega Sableye shrugs off Thousand Arrows. Mega Sableye's defensive typing is what warrants it a slot in D Rank.
 
Also, Mega Sableye is incredibly underrated by y'all. I've also been using this thing because of its typing and ability to combat a lot of physical attackers well. Funnily enough, Mega Sableye shrugs off Thousand Arrows. Mega Sableye's defensive typing is what warrants it a slot in D Rank.
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 127-151 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (not even banded or with an ability or anything)

Base 50 HP is just really, really bad, and honestly if you want a strong neutral wall Cresselia is a far better option in my opinion. Both only have 1 exploitable weakness (Nobody uses bug or ghost as attacking types, so Cress is effectively only weak to Dark), have few resists and are pretty much neutral to every common attacking type in the tier, but Cresselia is far, FAR bulkier. There's honestly no reason to justify Mega Sableye being used in this tier whatsoever tbh.
 

wishes

clarity
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 127-151 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (not even banded or with an ability or anything)

Base 50 HP is just really, really bad, and honestly if you want a strong neutral wall Cresselia is a far better option in my opinion. Both only have 1 exploitable weakness (Nobody uses bug or ghost as attacking types, so Cress is effectively only weak to Dark), have few resists and are pretty much neutral to every common attacking type in the tier, but Cresselia is far, FAR bulkier. There's honestly no reason to justify Mega Sableye being used in this tier whatsoever tbh.
Fur Coat is what I meant, which is a complete stop to Thousand Arrows.
 
Fur Coat is what I meant, which is a complete stop to Thousand Arrows.
But the issue still remains - why would you use it over fur coat cress (or for that matter, Audino)?

Hell, even if you're scared of Knock Off for some reason, Cress hits 444 HP at maximum health while Sableye only hits 304, and they both have approximately the same defense. This means Cress has approximately 150% of Sableye's bulk , and even moreso specially. Cresselia will be taking ~33% more damage than Sableye from Knock Off but that's it. On the flip side Sableye will be taking ~50% more damage from every other attack.

EDIT: Just to help reinforce the point:

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Primal Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Mega Sableye: 128-151 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Primal Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Cresselia: 131-155 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:
I mean, what can Xerneas do that Mega Diancie or Mega Audino can't? I think B- would be a good fit.
Resist Fighting-typed attacks.

More seriously, Xerneas at the moment fits a niche between Audino and Diancie. It lacks the bulk of the former and the offense of the latter, but it also has better offenses than the former and better defenses (especially in terms of typing) than the latter. Or in other words, unlike Audino, Xerneas can hit stuff back while supporting the team. And unlike Diancie, it can take a hit or two or five.

Basically, you want Xerneas if you want a bulky-offense or offensive-support set. Or if you want an offensive Fairy-type whose defensive typing synergizes with your team better than Diancie's plethora of weaknesses thanks to its Rock-type.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Xern definitely has a role as an offensive supporter, but I feel it's not nearly as good in the current meta. Fighting is actually a very rarely used offensive type, interestingly enough (probably only used by mm2x). Even when it is used, it's very often accompanied with strong STAB (like judgment gengar) or with V-create if the opposing opponent is Contrary/Protean, neither of which Xern can take very well. Still a solid mon overall, but I think it fits better in B rank than B+ rank.
 

Uselesscrab

if you still had the bones of an idol
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Kit, could you please apply some of the recently discussed nominations if you agree with them?

Also increasing my Gourgeist-Super nomination to C- because, with Primordial Sea, it's actually proven extremely useful on my recent teams. (I've been using it alongside Registeel and Mega Audino, and it's an excellent defensive core, though it has some issues with powerful special attackers, since most carry coverage to beat Registeel.)
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Committed a few changes to the rankings:
Unranked -> D
Unranked -> D
B+ -> B

Regarding some of the other propositions that were brought up:

I agree that Dialga has a lot of use in the meta right now. Its typing is great both offensively and defensively, and it has great stats to back that up. I think it's also kind of underrated as an offensive support mon, with something like magic bounce or prankster. That being said, its steel typing, while giving useful resistances, also gives it a weakness to ground, which is an extremely common attacking type in BH right now. I'm still somewhat hesitant to move it up right now.
Gengar is one of those pokemon with the potential to do extreme damage but also comes at a huge risk of using, especially in the current meta. If you do manage to get it in, however, I think the meta is vastly unprepared for it. It's kind of because of a sort of negative feedback mechanism, where the less a mon is viable, the less people prepare for it, and the less people prepare for it the more viable it is. I think this is certainly the case with Gengar right now. People rarely use Yveltal right now because its stats are basically lacking in all categories when compared to pokemon in similar roles. Audino as mamp said can be bypassed with Sludge Bomb, which is a risky but still viable option. I'm considering moving it up to A Rank but I'm not really certain about A+ right now. The main issue is that it requires a lot of risk to get it into play, and it's easily revenge killed because of its frailty.

That's about it for now, I'll think about other propositions if there are any changes that should be made.
 
Deoxys-Attack D -> A- or B+
Not sure why this is down in D lol. Deo-A's protean + focus sash set is prob the best late-game cleaner in bh atm; it's both very fast and very powerful on both sides of the spectrum, meaning nothing can really wall it depending on its coverage. not only that, but it can beat -ate and imposter thanks to its sash. once the opposing team is weakened, it usually has no trouble cleaning up. however, it isnt without its flaws. it needs a lot of team support: defog/spin, slow pivot moves to get it in safely, and a powerful priority user for if it gets impostered after its sash has been broken. also, its not as strong as other protean mons due to the lack of a boosting item, so it can sometimes miss important kills. its a very good mon in bh rn, D rank is a travesty lol
 
Deoxys-Attack D -> A- or B+
Not sure why this is down in D lol. Deo-A's protean + focus sash set is prob the best late-game cleaner in bh atm; it's both very fast and very powerful on both sides of the spectrum, meaning nothing can really wall it depending on its coverage. not only that, but it can beat -ate and imposter thanks to its sash. once the opposing team is weakened, it usually has no trouble cleaning up. however, it isnt without its flaws. it needs a lot of team support: defog/spin, slow pivot moves to get it in safely, and a powerful priority user for if it gets impostered after its sash has been broken. also, its not as strong as other protean mons due to the lack of a boosting item, so it can sometimes miss important kills. its a very good mon in bh rn, D rank is a travesty lol
Although I certainly agree that Deoxys-A is a ridiculously underrated threat in BH, I think A- / B+ is a little too high. I mean, maybe I'm just not that good with it, but it requires a lot of team support, and a lot of the time it just won't be doing enough damage. Too often the opponent will be left with 5% or 10% or something because it lacks a boosting item. Yes, I know it's meant to be a late-game cleaner, but still. Not to mention it has literally zero switch-in opportunities against ANY Pokemon.
Don't get me wrong, Deoxys-A is a great pokemon, I was just dwelling on the negatives there. It's a fast, powerful, and most importantly imposter-resilient sweeper that performs well if you play it right. I think B rank would be a good fit for Deoxys-A.

On another note, I would like to propose Gourgeist-Super to C- rank.
Primordial Sea/Flash Fire Gourgeist counters Shedinja, checks most protean MMX (sets like v-create, bolt strike, etc), naturally immune to spore so it doesn't lose to magic bouncers, checks most Pdons (aside from tinted band, but for some reason I haven't fought one of those in a while, most seem to be mold breaker or soundproof from my experience), is immune to random fire-coverage, and i'm sure the inevitable chatter ban will help it out a lot too.
It's better than most D rank pokemon at the very least.
Kit, could you please apply some of the recently discussed nominations if you agree with them?

Also increasing my Gourgeist-Super nomination to C- because, with Primordial Sea, it's actually proven extremely useful on my recent teams. (I've been using it alongside Registeel and Mega Audino, and it's an excellent defensive core, though it has some issues with powerful special attackers, since most carry coverage to beat Registeel.)
Holy shit one of my teams has the exact same defensive core :o
Don't tell me you have pdon on that team as well haha
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top