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Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings MK III

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A to B+

Mega Slowbro's effectiveness has been questionable lately. It's been mostly outclassed by Giratina and Cresselia as a Fur Coat Pokemon, courtesy of its general lack of special bulk. It is an incredibly inconsistent counter to the -ates, as most of them go mixed in the current metagame. Its Soundproof set was fantastic, but Techno Blast became so common that it compromised its viability. I would limit its use to Prankster and Poison Heal.



I personally find this a little tough. Due to its weakness to revenge killing, Primal Kyogre is best used as a sweeper in defensive teams. It's clear that with the amount of support Primal Kyogre needs, it should be A+ rank, yet the amount of pressure it provides alone with its required amount of support is staggering. It has the ability to single-handedly defeat almost every team in the Balanced Hackmons metagame. I think it can easily stay S rank.

I believe it should stay A-

Aegislash has always been a fantastic pivot to some of the most dangerous threats in the Balanced Hackmons metagame, but its effectiveness as a counter to -ates has been lessened, as the two most common -ates in the current metagame break walls a lot more easily than their predecessors. However, Aegislash has also regained its use as a consistent Magic Bounce Pokemon, as Magic Bounce Pokemon are no longer reliable against -ates, which allows Aegislash to have a more dedicated role as a "utility counter" to various setup sweepers. You could say its Prankster set is also better in a sense, since Magic Bouncers, Poison Heal Pokemon, and walls in general have been uncommon lately.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
As for my opinions on these three mons:

B+ its main role as a -ate counter is more or less obsolete because of techno blast as well as coverage. It still has good utility as a monster physical tank, especially because of its ability to deal with Groudon, but I think its weakness to pretty much any special attack as well as its relative predictability makes it B+ rank.

A+ I agree with the point that it has the ability to potentially sweep any BH team with its poison heal set, but I think the problem with Kyogre is that it has trouble finding opportunities to set up, thus it needs a bit more team support than the other S rank mons. It's also a lot more predictable, but unlike Mega Ray which doesn't really mind being predictable because of the sheer amount of speed and power it has, Kyogre needs setup to really get going.

A- I'm not really sure about this one. It's ability to be a sort of "catch all" to any contrary set is extremely useful, and it's also a really good pivot against -ate attackers on both stall and offense teams. My only problem with it is that it can't hit back in any way, ergo it has no way of forcing -ate out. The only thing it can do is to pivot out of it using something like parting shot. Still, it has enough bulk to reliably pivot out of -ate with Prankster (with leftovers recovery), and it can stop contrary sets with Flash Fire. I think this is enough to keep it at A- Rank.

If anyone has any other comments on the mons in S rank and A rank, please post them now. The council will discuss the points that have been proposed and come to a conclusion on these rankings which will be locked-in on Tuesday sometime. Otherwise, if you have no objections to any of the mons ranked S or A, we can proceed to focus the discussion more on B, C, and D rank. I'll make a post about some of these mons that need more discussion later today.
 
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First thing I noticed:

I think Regirock could easily be moves up to the high A tier. This is because it's one of the few pokemon that can reliably stop mega rayquaza. Regenerator AV Regirock can tank multiple boombursts, fake outs, and espeeds from ray.

4 SpA Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 94-111 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regirock: 30-36 (8.2 - 9.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regirock: 61-72 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO

With Aerilate Ray being incredibly popular in the meta,it's only fair that such a reliable and versatile counter to it be moved up the tiering.
 
I think arceus should go down to B rank. It has the bulk, but lacks the ability to actually be a great threat; the balance in its stats makes it inferior to many other things that could do the job it wants. Through my experience of playing BH, which while probably not as much as the council (~2k games), Arceus is seldom used, and most of the time for Perish Song. While it is good in all-around stats, I find it difficult to be on the same level of Registeel,and over M-Aggron, which is utilized rather well in a mostly physical meta.
Also,I think Shedinja should go to A rank. It is able to wall many pokes of the metagame, and when played correctly baton pass every time it is also incredibly difficult to take down. It can cause and incredible pain and is an excellent switch to most -ate pokes motherword predicts my switch and uses infestation M-rayq Regardless, Shedinja should go to A rank, not for its gimmicky Endeavor-ice shard/espeed/feint, but for being an excellent pivot. The use of pivot Shed is noticeable in the higher ladder BH,i believe
I have further comments for B rank, but that will be it for now...thank you in advance for accounting this input and also,kit,thanks for reopening this thread (in a way)
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
I think arceus should go down to B rank. It has the bulk, but lacks the ability to actually be a great threat; the balance in its stats makes it inferior to many other things that could do the job it wants. Through my experience of playing BH, which while probably not as much as the council (~2k games), Arceus is seldom used, and most of the time for Perish Song. While it is good in all-around stats, I find it difficult to be on the same level of Registeel,and over M-Aggron, which is utilized rather well in a mostly physical meta.
Also,I think Shedinja should go to A rank. It is able to wall many pokes of the metagame, and when played correctly baton pass every time it is also incredibly difficult to take down. It can cause and incredible pain and is an excellent switch to most -ate pokes motherword predicts my switch and uses infestation M-rayq Regardless, Shedinja should go to A rank, not for its gimmicky Endeavor-ice shard/espeed/feint, but for being an excellent pivot. The use of pivot Shed is noticeable in the higher ladder BH,i believe
I have further comments for B rank, but that will be it for now...thank you in advance for accounting this input and also,kit,thanks for reopening this thread (in a way)
Actually, I completely forgot about arc, even though I had a discussion with lcass earlier today about it. I agree with what you said about Arceus. It is definitely not as potent as it was pre EV change XY and in gen 5. Defensive sets are not as useful anymore because of the large power creep brought by ORAS, and offensive sets lack the bulk that Arceus once had that made it extremely useful on balance teams. I think it still has potential in the current meta, but definitely not enough to validate putting it in B+ rank.

Edit: When I said Thursday in the earlier post above, I really meant Tuesday lel
sorry about that.

So the S and A ranks will be locked in on Tuesday, probably around 24 hours from this post.
 
k i'll submit stuff about B ranking in 24 hours then. I find quite a few misplacements among the B- to B+ rank zone (although then again,its only my opinion)
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Actually, I completely forgot about arc, even though I had a discussion with lcass earlier today about it. I agree with what you said about Arceus. It is definitely not as potent as it was pre EV change XY and in gen 5. Defensive sets are not as useful anymore because of the large power creep brought by ORAS, and offensive sets lack the bulk that Arceus once had that made it extremely useful on balance teams. I think it still has potential in the current meta, but definitely not enough to validate putting it in B+ rank.

Edit: When I said Thursday in the earlier post above, I really meant Tuesday lel
sorry about that.

So the S and A ranks will be locked in on Tuesday, probably around 24 hours from this post.
bro, you mustve been talking to a imposter, because i work in the mornings, and i dont recall talking about arceus.

moving arceus...idk...the problem is, its a nasty pher, better then gigas atm, due to its speed teir and bulk imo, HOWEVER its rarely used. and when it is used its very underwhelming. i feel like arceus has untapped potential...but we just cant find it.(its max speed illusion bdrum with spiky sheild, espeed, and knock off is amazing tho use it, its amazing how fast it tears down teams.)in reality though, i agree with moving arceus down to B. it was a monster last gen due to its unpredictability. but now its just somebody that you used to knoooow~ outclassed by a lot of pokemon. jack of all trades, master of none.

edit: also run belly drum illusion arceus with espeed and knock off spiky sheild. its a good set, and fucks over ates due to its superior speed. and is semi imposter proof.
edit2: didnt notice i said that allready. ill keep it so you can laugh at me

Also,I think Shedinja should go to A rank. It is able to wall many pokes of the metagame, and when played correctly baton pass every time it is also incredibly difficult to take down. It can cause and incredible pain and is an excellent switch to most -ate pokes motherword predicts my switch and uses infestation M-rayq Regardless, Shedinja should go to A rank, not for its gimmicky Endeavor-ice shard/espeed/feint, but for being an excellent pivot. The use of pivot Shed is noticeable in the higher ladder BH,i believe)
why hello there my shedinja loving brother :) im a fairly well versed shedinja player (my best teams use them and they are the only ones that peak ladder ;~;) i say that so you dont think im just undermining shedinjas amazingness btw, not trying to brag. and although i agree with all your posts, and im SUPER stoked you see the amazing pivot shedinja is moreso then the stupid endevoir set(which still should be run on the pivot). its just...too prepared for. it does its job well. really well. best in the teir. i mean i literally just said "its too prepared for" and here we are giving it a A- ranking, which is very well deserved. shedinja has too many ways to stop it, and although it steamrolls the meta to annoyance, its still a pokemon that rather then needing a proper teambuild, (which even then you need a defogger-which is all it needs really...i dont see the "needs plenty of support" when it only needs 1 move to work) but moreso requires prediction skill to pull off. not any average joe can utilize shedinja high tier and win battles. people who can use shedinja properly(mista rob for example-my arch rival..RIP buddy, may you rejoin us in the ring someday ;~;) are truly skilled players.(not saying people who suck with shedinja have no skill might i add). so im sorry, but im going to have to disagree with moving it up. sorry.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
I was talking to you about how ghost and rock arc are more or less obsolete because of the lack of bulk remember? ;-;

About shedinja: The main reason why it's at A- is because, like lcass said, it is one of the most prepared for things in BH (that and imposter), that it takes a lot of skill to use effectively. That said, if you are able to use it effectively, it ends up being able to stop all kinds of offensive pressure, which is why it is A-
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I was talking to you about how ghost and rock arc are more or less obsolete because of the lack of bulk remember? ;-;

About shedinja: The main reason why it's at A- is because, like lcass said, it is one of the most prepared for things in BH (that and imposter), that it takes a lot of skill to use effectively. That said, if you are able to use it effectively, it ends up being able to stop all kinds of offensive pressure, which is why it is A-
oh right. i remember talking about rockceus, but not ghost ;~;
 
bro, you mustve been talking to a imposter, because i work in the mornings, and i dont recall talking about arceus.
ill keep it so you can laugh at me

why hello there my shedinja loving brother :) im a fairly well versed shedinja player (my best teams use them and they are the only ones that peak ladder ;~;) i say that so you dont think im just undermining shedinjas amazingness btw, not trying to brag. and although i agree with all your posts, and im SUPER stoked you see the amazing pivot shedinja is moreso then the stupid endevoir set(which still should be run on the pivot). its just...too prepared for. it does its job well. really well. best in the teir. i mean i literally just said "its too prepared for" and here we are giving it a A- ranking, which is very well deserved. shedinja has too many ways to stop it, and although it steamrolls the meta to annoyance, its still a pokemon that rather then needing a proper teambuild, (which even then you need a defogger-which is all it needs really...i dont see the "needs plenty of support" when it only needs 1 move to work) but moreso requires prediction skill to pull off. not any average joe can utilize shedinja high tier and win battles. people who can use shedinja properly(mista rob for example-my arch rival..RIP buddy, may you rejoin us in the ring someday ;~;) are truly skilled players.(not saying people who suck with shedinja have no skill might i add). so im sorry, but im going to have to disagree with moving it up. sorry.
lololololol. ;) i know its not edited
but yeah,i failed to account the fact that pivot shed requires some skill =\
also..move aegislash to AT LEAST M-slowbro's rank imo. Aegislash is an amazing pivot. resists all -ates, laughs at drain punch mmx, ignores sheddy's endeavor...I have tried both, and in my experience, Aegislash is more useful for being a tank, partly from typing but also from its balanced bulk, allowing it to be also able to stop things like mmy.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Changes made:

A -> B+
S -> A+

I was going to make a post on some of the B ranked mons today but I got caught up with something else :(
I'll post it tomorrow.
 
I'd like to offer the opinion that Xerneas should be dropped from B+ to B, if that's okay... I find that for the most part, it's outclassed by Mega Audino in defensive roles (Fighting resist is nice, though) and Mega Diancie in offensive ones. It's a good bulky attacker for Poison Heal, but no one really runs that anymore, probably because of -ates.

I can reserve this nomination until later if you'd rather I wait.

I also have some more ideas that I'll suggest sometime soon.
 
I'm not particularly active in BH at the moment and probably won't be for another couple of weeks, so I'm not going to suggest specific rankings in this post. Rather, I'm just stepping in to point out that Arceus is the only Judgement sweeper who never fears Trick or Knock Off, which can be a pretty big deal for Imposter-proof sets. Ghostceus still probably doesn't want to take a Knock Off from a sweeper, but, on the other hand, it never gets hit by the boosted Knock Off power nor does it even need to raise an eyebrow at Knock Off from support mons. But either way, for whatever it gets ranked at, I feel that's a point worth keeping in mind in its favor.

Of course, there's Sticky Hold for everyone else, but that doesn't let you disguise your type and is vulnerable to Mold Breaker.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Here are my thoughts on some B ranked mons that might need moving.

Arceus-* B+ -> B This was discussed a bit in early posts, so to summarize: Although Arceus has a lot of utility because of its high bulk and high speed (which is often underestimated), it can pull off a variety of defensive and supporting roles effectively. However, because of the EV change, Arceus's offensive roles are not as effective because it lacks the bulk it once had that made it an extremely useful attacker on balance teams.

Audino-Mega B -> B+ Audino has very good bulk and an amazing typing that allows it to be a very formidable defensive threat. Its only weaknesses, Poison and Steel, are relatively uncommon, which allows Audino to soak up a lot of the coverage moves thrown around in BH. It can run a variety of abilities, including Prankster, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, and Fur Coat. My only concern is that its typing, while leaving it with few weaknesses, also leaves it with very few relevant resists. It has two useful immunities in Dragon and Ghost, but no other relevant resists, which leaves it vulnerable to the extremely powerful STAB moves used in bh like -ate Boomburst and Thousand Arrows.

Cresselia B- -> B Cresselia is just ridiculously bulky. Ghost and Dark, while still used, are far less common attacking types than they were in XY, which makes Cresselia a lot more viable in ORAS (I can understand Gengar dropping in usage because of -ate, but for some reason STAB Knock Off spam doesn't seem as common as before). Cresselia has use in Unaware as one of the best Contrary stops in BH, and in Fur Coat as a deceptively bulky wall (In addition to other less used abilities).
 
sorry,but i've got something to say about the A rank again =\
Diancie Mega A- -> A that thing's been used in almost every team i've been facing recently. It is an excellent sweeper, having powerful fake out+espeed in addition to boombursting. Its STAB Pixilate also allows it to slaughter giratinas in impunity.A stealth rock support keeps aways shedinjas, and a coverage move hit steel types imo makes it difficult to stop without needing to revenge kill
 
Here are my thoughts on some B ranked mons that might need moving.

Arceus-* B+ -> B This was discussed a bit in early posts, so to summarize: Although Arceus has a lot of utility because of its high bulk and high speed (which is often underestimated), it can pull off a variety of defensive and supporting roles effectively. However, because of the EV change, Arceus's offensive roles are not as effective because it lacks the bulk it once had that made it an extremely useful attacker on balance teams.
I'm fine with this change. Arceus can run a lot of roles, but it definitely doesn't belong above some of the Pokemon in B Rank.

Audino-Mega B -> B+ Audino has very good bulk and an amazing typing that allows it to be a very formidable defensive threat. Its only weaknesses, Poison and Steel, are relatively uncommon, which allows Audino to soak up a lot of the coverage moves thrown around in BH. It can run a variety of abilities, including Prankster, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, and Fur Coat. My only concern is that its typing, while leaving it with few weaknesses, also leaves it with very few relevant resists. It has two useful immunities in Dragon and Ghost, but no other relevant resists, which leaves it vulnerable to the extremely powerful STAB moves used in bh like -ate Boomburst and Thousand Arrows.
Not entirely sold on this one. Usually I would support it, but using it recently, it tends to get destroyed on whatever defense it doesn't invest in. By virtue of typing, it's quite useful. Its stats aren't quite as good as one might think, however.

Cresselia B- -> B Cresselia is just ridiculously bulky. Ghost and Dark, while still used, are far less common attacking types than they were in XY, which makes Cresselia a lot more viable in ORAS (I can understand Gengar dropping in usage because of -ate, but for some reason STAB Knock Off spam doesn't seem as common as before). Cresselia has use in Unaware as one of the best Contrary stops in BH, and in Fur Coat as a deceptively bulky wall (In addition to other less used abilities).
I haven't used Cress in an extremely long time (I mostly use Darm-Z instead), so I'll withhold comment here.

Nominating Reshiram to go down from C to C-. I'm not 100% sure about this, but it has lower or equal stats compared to Groudon-Primal in every category but Special Defense. Dragon STAB is something of an advantage, but I also don't feel like it's bulky enough to set up without getting murdered by an opposing Primal Kyogre, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Groudon in the process. (What abilities does this even run in the current meta, by the way? I haven't seen Drought in an awfully long time.)
 
I've had my thoughts regarding these threats for quite some time.

Arceus B+ -> (?) Arceus still has potential in the current ORAS metagame. He has not been used as an incredibly bulky Mold Breaker hazard layer, which is rather strange in my opinion. Although Arceus has been a little worse recently, I feel that no one is using Arceus to His full potential. Arceus' niche is His excellent Speed and bulk, and His offensive sets are long gone. In fact, you could say His offensive sets have been gone for a long while; however, His offensive sets have never been His best this gen. If you're going to use Arceus, you should use Him now, as I see a lot of potential in Him! Safety Goggles + Spore with that excellent Speed to abuse. Moldy Hazards, Regenvest, and Poison Heal seem more potent this time around! Let's not get hasty, I say we wait a bit.

Audino-Mega B -> B+ Mega Audino is one of the most solid defensive Pokemon in the current metagame. Its niche as a counter to most Gengar sets isn't as useful anymore, but its lack of common weaknesses allows Mega Audino to seemingly circumvent offense itself. It can perform with a variety of abilities, such as Magic Bounce, Prankster, Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and Regenerator with incredible effectiveness.

Cresselia B- -> B Cress has been one of my staples in the ORAS metagame. It easily rivals Giratina as a Fur Coat Pokemon. Cresselia's Unaware set is also still ok, but it's definitely not its best set. Ghost and Dark-type attacks have been a little less common lately, so I guess that can also put it up. Cresselia has always been a fantastic wall, but now that Cresselia actually has a more identifiable role as a Fur Coat Pokemon, its viability just shot up considerably.

Latias-Mega and Latios-Mega B- -> B These twins are extremely strong with Soul Dew equipped. With their solid Speed stat, it's also quite easy for them to outpace almost all opposing pivots. Mewtwo-Y may seem better, but the twins do have considerably more bulk and power. Protean is better on Mewtwo-Y, so let's talk about Adaptability. Mega Latios can make use of his great Dragon-type STAB to obliterate the opposition. Plus, the freedom to choose its moves is rather great for a wallbreaker. The combination of Psystrike and Draco Meteor on an Adapt set is virtually impossible to wall.

Nominating Reshiram to go down from C to C-. I'm not 100% sure about this, but it has lower or equal stats compared to Groudon-Primal in every category but Special Defense. Dragon STAB is something of an advantage, but I also don't feel like it's bulky enough to set up without getting murdered by an opposing Primal Kyogre, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Groudon in the process. (What abilities does this even run in the current meta, by the way? I haven't seen Drought in an awfully long time.)
I can see Reshiram performing an Adapt set or something, but it's just so outclassed in power. Still, I don't think we should make Reshiram even lower, as it certainly has the power to break past many defensive and offensive threats. Also, thanks to Primal Groudon's centralisation, most people are using Giratina to take powerful Fire-Type attacks, so I guess that means Reshiram can abuse that fact with its powerful Dragon-type STAB attacks.
 
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I'd like to offer the opinion that Xerneas should be dropped from B+ to B, if that's okay... I find that for the most part, it's outclassed by Mega Audino in defensive roles (Fighting resist is nice, though) and Mega Diancie in offensive ones. It's a good bulky attacker for Poison Heal, but no one really runs that anymore, probably because of -ates.

I can reserve this nomination until later if you'd rather I wait.
I'd personaly find that Xerneas could drop even further, cause really, you don't see Xerneas that much nowdays at all considering its both sides of spectrum have a better specialized mons.
It's kinda like it has a ok stat spread and pure fairy is a nice typing, but still, its kinda left in a limbo of temptations to run something else.

Diancie Mega A- -> A that thing's been used in almost every team i've been facing recently. It is an excellent sweeper, having powerful fake out+espeed in addition to boombursting. Its STAB Pixilate also allows it to slaughter giratinas in impunity.A stealth rock support keeps aways shedinjas, and a coverage move hit steel types imo makes it difficult to stop without needing to revenge kill
I think this is pretty reasonable. Diancie Mega packs some serious punch and it is definatly the second best -ate user if you ask me.

Arceus-* B+ -> B This was discussed a bit in early posts, so to summarize: Although Arceus has a lot of utility because of its high bulk and high speed (which is often underestimated), it can pull off a variety of defensive and supporting roles effectively. However, because of the EV change, Arceus's offensive roles are not as effective because it lacks the bulk it once had that made it an extremely useful attacker on balance teams.
Arceus got a lot going on, I'm bit uncertain on this whenver should it drop or not. Even tho the EV change did hurt Arceus, 120 on everything is still nothing to scoff at. It can still pull off bulky sweeper role quite effectivly and has unique trait of becoming wildcard with its typing.
Tho Arceus doesnt get as much use as it deserves, I still think it should stay B+.
 
On Reshy, I used it a little bit right before ORAS as a bulky offensive PH user and it worked pretty decently, though was more held back by being on a gimmicky as hell team than anything else. It's also worth noting that, unlike Groudon, Reshy takes neutral damage from all of Kyo-P's common attacks (Water, Fairy, and Ice) without using abilities, which is a defensive niche worth considering. There's also the fact that it also has Dual special Contrary STAB that's only resisted consistently by FF/Prim Sea Steels, Fairies, and lolAzumarill.

I don't have enough recent experience to support a change in any direction or a stay, however. But, on paper at least, it looks like it still has a few significant niches.
 
Arceus B+ -> (?) Arceus still has potential in the current ORAS metagame. Its has not been used as an incredibly bulky Mold Breaker hazard later, which is rather strange in my opinion. Although Arceus has been a little worse recently, I feel that no one is using Arceus to His full potential. Arceus' niche is His excellent Speed and bulk, and His offensive sets are long gone. In fact, you could say His offensive sets have been gone for a long while; however, His offensive sets have never been His best this gen. If you're going to use Arceus, you should use Him now, as I see a lot of potential in Him! Safety Goggles + Spore with that excellent Speed to abuse. Moldy Hazards, Regenvest, and Poison Heal seem more potent this time around! Let's not get hasty, I say we wait a bit.
I like how you made sure Him, His, etc were capitalized...if you didnt , RNGceus would've eaten your soul
I'd say keep at B+, the recent influx of Assistdon teams is actually helping show some of his potential as a bulky sweeper and may lead to the discovery of even more uses of Arceus. however, as adrian stallin marin said, let's not get hasty,we should wait a bit to see how it turns out

Audino-Mega B -> B+ Mega Audino is one of the most solid defensive Pokemon in the current metagame. Its niche as a counter to most Gengar sets isn't as useful anymore, but its lack of common weaknesses allows Mega Audino to seemingly circumvent offense itself. It can perform with a variety of abilities, such as Magic Bounce, Prankster, Poison Heal, Fur Coat, and Regenerator with incredible effectiveness.
i'm sorry,but i'll have to agree with UC on this one. I'd used it when ORAS was first announced, and it got slaughtered by whatever defense I didnt invest in. In effect,i was like a downgraded chansey(with no phys bulk investment) or regirock(no sp.def invest) tank. it is true that its resistance to Gengar-mega isn't as useful as it was a couple months ago, when gengar-mega was common; now, it's mostly a rarity mother's anti-assist gengar-mega tho. However, while it can circumvent many weaknesses common in the BH metagame cough ground=rip registeel/regirock/aggro-mega/steelix-mega, it also has too many types neutral.

Cresselia B- -> B Cress has been one of my staples in the ORAS metagame. It easily rivals Giratina as a Fur Coat Pokemon. Cresselia's Unaware set is also still ok, but it's definitely not its best set. Ghost and Dark-type attacks have been a little less common lately, so I guess that can also put it up. Cresselia has always been a fantastic wall, but now that Cresselia actually has a more identifiable role as a Fur Coat Pokemon, its viability just shot up considerably.
I beg to differ...yveltal's growing nowadays. A little while 2 weeks ago? no. but now? oh yes...with the classic pursuit/knock off. I see it quite often now as a regenvest user or a Magic Guard Toxic Orb user i wonder who's set that is. So yeah...but no.I have to disagree about that. However, it is true that one major thing that held it back, MegaGar, has also been declining in use. Also, what about u-turn? still gets a little boost of damage hue hue

Latias-Mega and Latios-Mega B- -> B These twins are extremely strong with Soul Dew equipped. With their solid Speed stat, it's also quite easy for them to outpace almost all opposing pivots. Mewtwo-Y may seem better, but the twins do have considerably more bulk and power. Protean is better on Mewtwo-Y, so let's talk about Adaptability. Mega Latios can make use of his great Dragon-type STAB to obliterate the opposition. Plus, the freedom to choose its moves is rather great for a wallbreaker. The combination of Psystrike and Draco Meteor on an Adapt set is virtually impossible to wall.
Call them Lati@s-Mega. anyway...Yes,they're very good wall breakers. I'd run adapt Latios mega when i was a n00b, but the fact is,it does work. In fact, Soul Dew, Max Sp.Atk Latios-Mega has a 100% chance to OHKO Max Sp.Bulk Giratina w/ Draco, not even accounting if its adaptability. More calcs below.
The thing is, lati@s mega are,well,rather slow for sweepers tbh. And,that they lose an item and die to any fake out+espeed. agreeing with keeping at B rank
+1 252+ SpA Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 518-612 (102.7 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Mega Latios Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 294-348 (80.7 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (those pesky things,still trying to find a way to get a nice OHKO)
+1 252+ SpA Adaptability Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Yveltal: 504-594 (110.5 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


I can see Reshiram performing an Adapt set or something, but it's just so outclassed in power. Still, I don't think we should make Reshiram even lower, as it certainly has the power to break past many defensive and offensive threats. Also, thanks to Primal Groudon's centralisation, most people are using Giratina to take powerful Fire-Type attacks, so I guess that means Reshiram can abuse that fact with its powerful Dragon-type STAB attacks.
Reshiram in the first place is extremely rare, and 100% (yes,100%) of the times i've faced it,it has been contrary by a person using pokes from the old viability thread calling a sturdinja "The Fallen Prince" Honestly, I cant see much viability in this thing. Agreeing with UC to bring down to C-...maybe even worse.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
B I agree with Adrian's point that Arceus has a lot of unexplored potential because of its great stat distribution, so for now I think we can wait on Arc to see what people can do with it.

B Now that you mention it, the fact that it can't really take hits from its uninvested side is a pretty notable hindrance to the effectiveness of Audino. I noticed that too when I was testing it; I had it invested physically to take -ate better but then its pretty much 2HKO'd by most special hits. That combined with the lack of very useful resists (pretty much only dark and dragon) makes Audino a bit harder to use. That being said, I still found it to have a lot of utility, so I think staying at B is good for now.

B- -> B Even if Yveltal is increasing in usage, Cress generally doesn't care about koff at all except for the first hit. With Fur Coat, its barely a scratch. Most Yveltal sets these days are defensive / support, so unless someone is running something like Mold Breaker sweeper Yveltal, I doubt it'll be able to break Cresselia's immense bulk.

B- -> B With Kyub and Gengar rarely seen nowadays, Lati@s has a much easier time functioning effectively. It has the hardest hitting protean nuke in the game, which gives it a bit of a niche over MM2Y if you want a slower, bulkier protean user. Other offensive sets include Contrary and Tinted Lens / Adaptability. It also has uses as an offensive pivot, able to run Fur Coat (mainly Latias) and still be able to hit back hard, or it can run a defensive / support Protean set. In fact Lati@s might even be good enough to put in B+ rank but I think we should wait and see on that.

Edit: removed the dashes because they looked like B- :P
 
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I can see Reshiram performing an Adapt set or something, but it's just so outclassed in power. Still, I don't think we should make Reshiram even lower, as it certainly has the power to break past many defensive and offensive threats. Also, thanks to Primal Groudon's centralisation, most people are using Giratina to take powerful Fire-Type attacks, so I guess that means Reshiram can abuse that fact with its powerful Dragon-type STAB attacks.
Reshiram can run a very good Mold Breaker set with Draco Plate Judgement to become inposter resistant. Quiver Dance can work better now that most Kyogre are the set up sweeper variety instead of regenvest that was so common in XY.
 
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