Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Not banworthy. The risk of using it is pretty high in a tier where a single set up move is so threatening. Overall, I think it brings diversity to the rather stale playstyle of this gen. Without spectral thief and core enforcer in the tier, the options are already pretty limited for defensive mons. Removing another one of their tools is a no for me.
Stone Axe
Not banworthy. The 60 damage is somewhat irrelevant except on ho-oh. The true upside is being able to use it through taunt, choice band and assault vest, which allows concerned mons not to be totaly stale as long as they're counter is still alive. I really like the dynamic between stone-axe and MG Ho-Oh which has a unique typing and can be such a pain to deal with. Considering how weak salt cure is, removing stone-axe is practicaly removing all form of rock type moves from the tier as I doubt people will start using diamond storm because of stone-axe's absence. Once again, removing a typing from the tier will probably lead to an even more stale meta.
Bulwark and stone Axe
I think the greatest argument for keeping both in the tier is how how defining the 4 MSS is to this tier. Both are fairly passive moves that run a high cost on offensive and defensive sets. Stone Axe on an offensive set will replace your set up move, your recovery or your pivot and on a defensive set it's absolute set up bait and does basicaly nothing if your opponent can remove hazards, which is pretty easy in this tier. Overall, the argument seems to be more around uncompetitive/boring than overpowered. That argument seems pretty weak to me, since the meta is already somewhat stale and I think these option have a high cost to run and balance things out instead of making it boring.
Speaking of passive moves, this is as anti-passive as it gets. It's a derivative of a Arceus-steel set I posted a while ago but ditches the spinblocking for absolute domination against just about any defensive mons, requiring an absurdly low amount of prediction to use.
The worst status this guy suffers from is burn halving mortal spin's trash damage. MG also blocks all other forms of residual damage and knock off doesn't work. The only common strategy a passive mon that can't 2 shot you can do is set up hazards and as I explain in the next paragraph this set is as hard to spinblock as it gets.
On the offensive side, electric + ground + poison status + Cage damage is often somewhat effective against every member of the opposing team, making switching in pretty hard for a mostly defensive mon, especially mid/late game. More importantly this anti-passive beast is one of the hardest mons to spin block in the current meta. When covering for the 3 usual steel type weaknesses, it becomes very hard to cover for this guy and people will likely prepare for the much more common v-create, headlong rush and close combat instead.
Survey results! Thank you to the 27 respondents, of which 21 are "qualified voters".
How much are you enjoying the current meta?
Average - 6.89 | Previous Averages - 7.00 & 6.94
How competitive do you think the meta is?
Average - 7.44 | Previous Averages - 7.38 & 7.67
How much do you enjoy building?
Average - 6.00 | Previous Averages - 6.10 & 6.39
All 3 scores are basically identical to the previous survey around 2.5 months ago. Generally people find the meta to be in a good state, being both fun and competitive. Teambuilding is as always polarizing in terms of results with some people really enjoying building while others greatly detesting it.
Bans
Almost all of these elements lack substantial support and most have a strong majority in opposition.
The one exception is Burning Bulwark. This element has been brought up frequently recently for its high potential reward when used on Pokemon like Chansey and Blissey while being argued as unpleasant to deal with on other random sets. Without a significant number of support vs opposition it is unlikely we will have any action on it in the near future though high potential down the line, but we will be keeping a very close eye on it, and we strongly encourage people to continue posting regarding Burning Bulwark; high quality replays are particularly valuable as practical examples.
Unbans
All but one of the elements lack substantial support.
Regigigas + Slaking is the one that has received most support for freeing. However with still a submajority (and sub 40% if only looking at qualified) it is unlikely that we will consider suspecting these in the near future especially considering a complete absence of formal discussion on them. As always we strongly encourage passionate advocates to post their arguments regarding this. One thing to look forward to is potentially a plan to host a fun tour with RegiKing unbanned so players can have a strong competitive environment to play and test with them, seeing that these bans were fairly early in the generation and a good amount of players currently have not been active back then.
Any further comments?
No significant repeated response.
That concludes the survey results, thanks for reading!
Are you tired of removing hazards? Do you not like playing the spinblocking game with your opponent? Psea Celesteela/Aegislash and Levitate Steels, Big Ghost Arc blocking your hazard removal without your consent? Well do I have the solution for you. In this post I will share some of the most reliable hazard removals you'll ever see in 2025 generation 9 balanced hackmons. The concept is very simple. STOP giving your walls removal. Your walls are too busy clicking recover and getting their boots knocked to fit in enough OFFENSIVE moves that let you spin reliably. Let me introduce you to the future of reliable removal: Magic Guard Darks.
What you need to know is that there are no ability that gives a mon immunity to the DARKNESS. This means that as long as your Rapid Spinner can beat Ghost Arc, Flutter Mane, Aegislash and Giratina, it will reliably remove hazards. With Magic Guard, your spinner can come in at any time without worrying about taking hazards. This makes MG Darks one of the most reliable removal you'll find anywhere. I will share some sets below with a brief description for you to enjoy. Just a disclaimer but every one of these sets let Imposter come in for free BUT that's a fair price to have reliable removal. I recommend proofing these sets with a Magic Bounce mon to prevent Sap recovery and further make your team more hazard proof by bouncing Spikes. I'd also always recommend Revdance over Knock Off for the Dark stab since it's much better vs FC/Sap Ghost Arceus but you could run Knock instead if you don't expect it or your other mons can deal with it. Revdance also beats Normalize Ghost Judge Flutter which is very nice. Finally, the good MG moves are physical recoil ones so a special moves makes you a lot harder to wall.
Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Revelation Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
Yveltal is the best MG Dark spinner. It can beat most Ghost Arcs and thats the most common Ghost. Brave Bird hits Flutter Mane and the overrated FC Zamazenta hard. Because we run a physical move to destroy Chansey/Blissey we can run Strength Sap, unless you mispredict Bulwark. Some people might say this set can lose to Take Heart Ghost Arcs but a lot of things have to go wrong for that to happen (you got knocked, the arc already setup before you come in, your yveltal is low, etc.). As long as you keep Yveltal healthy, you should always beat Ghost Arc. Always go +speed to outspeed neutral 100s like Gardevoir and Blaziken. Attacking first with Brave Bird is much better than being a bit bulkier/stronger.
Greninja-Ash (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Wave Crash
- Fiery Wrath
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
Everyone's favourite frog is back, but this time he's your family friendly reliable spinner. This is the most offensive set but has good longevity thanks to MG + recovery. Not only that, you're Big Greninja so even with just LO, you still do good damage with Wave Crash + Fiery Wrath. Beats non Secret Sword Ghost Arcs and bonks Flutter Mane with Wave Crash.
Gyarados-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wave Crash
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
This is the slower, bulkier, no mixed attacker version of MG Greninja. Notably since you're Knock Off you can lose to FC/Sap Ghost Arc so you have to have an answer to that elsewhere. The upside is Knock Off is a godly move so you're happy to run that. Jolly makes you faster than Adamant Garchomp and neutral 90s so you can attack it first. At +1 you also outspeed base 130s with Jolly.
Tyranitar-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Stone Axe / Head Smash
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
Tyranitar is kinda similar to Gyarados but there are some pros and cons. Firstly you get stab stone axe and knock off which means you guarantee progress against most teams. Being a poison resist means you can beat a chipped non-sap / secret sword Eternatus. Personally i think Head Smash is a terrible move because of accuracy but I guess its an option. You're also overall bulkier statwise and can be run in sand for more bulk. The downside is you're slower which means even with Jolly you dont outspeed neutral 90s. Only go +speed if you care about outspeeding 130s at +1. Also rock is overall worse than water defensively.
Guzzlord @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Revelation Dance
- High Jump Kick / Dragon Tail / Glaive Rush / Steel Beam / Dragon Energy
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap / Recover
These last mons are mote cooked and spicy. Big GUZZLORD is a cope check to Sniper Greninja on top of non SS Ghost Arc. You want to go mixed to run Sap (for blobs) but you can go Steel Beam or Dragon Energy with Recover.
Zarude-Dada @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Wood Hammer
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
BIG ZARUDE is the ultimate Garchomp and Greninja wall. Do not calc the damage, just trust me. Fast Knock Off makes you bulkier than you think. Huge Wood Hammer let's Zaddy Zarude slam cringe mons like Ting-Lu, Swampert and Kyogre.
Houndoom-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid Nature
- Flare Blitz / Torch Song
- Revelation Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap / Recover
Houndoom is a very cool mon. Unfortunately it has low attack which makes Flare Blitz kinda weak. Torch Song is an option but you'll be walled by blobs so be wary if you wanna run that.
That concludes the MG Dark Spinners section. I'll now talk about the next type of reliable removal: -Ate spinners. I'll preface this by saying that I do think these mons are worse than the above because of a couple things. Firstly they can get chipped. This means you need to soend more turns clicking recovery. Repeat after me: I do not want to click Recover. I do not want to click Recover. I do not want to click Recover. The other reason is because if you want to run recovery and Rapid Spin, you only have 2 moves for Extremespeed, Boomburst and coverage. Dropping recovery isn't an option unless you have other spinners which really reduces the whole "reliable spinner" image we have going on here. I'm actually showcasing only Aerilate spinners because they are immune to spikes. Some people will tell you that all -Ate types are equal for spinning but that's not true. Nobody wants to worry about getting their spinner's boots knocked, trust me. No one wants to pay 37.5% of their hp to click Rapid Spin and Recover. We do not donate 2 free turns like that in this 2025 economy. This is why we run rocks-neutral Flying Type mons like below.
There are 2 very good reasons to run the Incarnate form of Landorus: the base 101 speed and higher special attack. The speed makes you always faster than base 100s which as I keep mentioning previously is very useful to attack the mid speed breakers. Again if you don't run a physical move you should run Recover.
Gapdos is a very cool mon. Physical fighting moves go well with Flying, especially because Combat Torque and Triple Arrows have great side effects to punish non Cloak mons.
Zapdos-Galar @ Wide Lens
Ability: Aerilate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Rapid Spin
- Triple Arrows
- Strength Sap
This is an evil version of the Gapdos that can be self-proof as long as you're better (re: luckier) than your opponent. Simply Pop Bomb on the Imposter switch, outspeed and do it again for an easy kill.
Have you ever thought to yourself "man I wish I have a Rapid Spin Blocker that also Rapid Spins andbeat other Rapid Spin Blockers and is alsoself-imposterproof and I'm allergic to Rapid Spin Ghost Arc." Well good news because I am back again to pioneer the future of Rapid Spin Blocker that also Rapid Spins and beat other Rapid Spin Blockers and is also self-imposterproof (RSBRSBORSBSI™).
The method is simple. we run a Ghost type with Purifying Salt, Rapid Spin and Infernal Parade. Basically, Purifying Salt acts as a pseudo FC + Ice Scales against Ghost-type moves and a pseudo Magic Guard because you can't be statused. This means that a bulky mon like Giratina can easily come in on Ghost Arc's Judgment and beat it 1v1. You can also Rapid Spin safely because you don't mind Ghosts coming in because you win 1v1. The biggest issue for this set is Imposter. However, with a bit of help you can beat Imposters 1v1. You see, gaining Purifying Salt doesn't remove your status condition (allegedly). this means if you for example Poison the Imposter beforehand, it will remain Poisoned even if it transforms into your PS mon, so your Infernal Parade will do double damage while theirs will never do double because your mon always had Purifying Salt the whole time.
This is the first and best RSBRSBORSBSI™ set. The idea is mostly explained above already. With Griseous Core, Knock Off and Strength Sap, you can beat Imposters 1v1 provided that you poison/burn it before hand. This does mean that you lose to Chansey/Blissey but at least you can knock them off. Alternatively you can run a fighting move but I think Knock is too good vs Imposters. Notably, this set also walls FC Zamazenta. You do not block the Mortal Spin but you don't get Poisoned and you can't get Knocked so overall it's a very good switchin. Note that the set is not self-proof if you run Recover. Again +Speed to outspeed neutral 100s offensive mons so you can Knock them first and take 30% less damage. This set CAN lose to Take Heart Ghost Arc but it's not too bad because you basically force a Take Heart/Recover if you play well. If you really want to beat Take Heart Ghost Arc, l'd recommend Topsy-Turvy or Spite. Spite is a very cool move because usually, the Ghost Arc only has Judgment to hit you so you can Spite away 4 PP. Do that 3 times and their Ghost Arc just becomes useless. If they also dare click Recover in front of you, they also get destroyed by Spite. Note that this move makes Imposters annoying if you don't win some speed ties to Spite the Imposter's Spite.
Here are calcs to show you beat Imposter if you status it:
252 SpA Griseous Core Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 138-164 (19.3 - 22.9%) -- 63.4% chance to 3HKO after poison damage
252 SpA Griseous Core Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 138-164 (19.3 - 22.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Giratina Infernal Parade (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 60-72 (11.9 - 14.2%) -- possible 7HKO
Here are calcs to show you beat Ghost Arc in an even position:
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 132-156 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Griseous Core Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 272-324 (61.2 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
Flutter Mane @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infernal Parade
- Moonblast / Knock Off
- Pain Split
- Rapid Spin
Unfortunately we can't talk about Ghost types without menitoning our resident wannabe Mega Gengar. This is exactly the set you'd expect with respect to running a RSBRSBORSBSI™ set. Flutter Mane has such a high Spdef that it would have lost to Imposter except for Pain Split.
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Flutter Mane: 120-144 (38.2 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 282-332 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
There are obviously pros and cons compared to Giratina. Flutter Mane is faster, can run double STAB because Pain Split beats blobs. You also sap block and kill dragons. It's a lot less bulkier, especially on the physical side so you might have to run other spinners in case Flutter gets too low.
Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infernal Parade
- Secret Sword / Knock Off / Spite
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
To be honest, I'm an Aegislash enjoyer but that mon has no Spatk so you deal no damage even with a juiced Infernal Parade, so I have to unfortunately recommend Gholdengo. Gholdengo has the extra Steel type which means you can also block Mortal Spin. I wouldn't rely on that too much though since any competent Mortal Spinner should run a strong STAB or Fire/Ground/Fighting move to beat steels, and you only stop the Fighting coverage Mortal Spinners.
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Gholdengo: 156-186 (41.2 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Purifying Salt Gholdengo: 144-170 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This mon is so bad we have to run Calm just to not get 2HKOd by Ghost Arceus Judgment after rocks. I personally think the 2 sets above this are better but if you need the cool Ghost/Steel typing then this is a viable option.
Have you ever thought to yourself "man I wish I have a Rapid Spin Blocker that also Rapid Spins andbeat other Rapid Spin Blockers and is alsoself-imposterproof and I'm allergic to Rapid Spin Ghost Arc." Well good news because I am back again to pioneer the future of Rapid Spin Blocker that also Rapid Spins and beat other Rapid Spin Blockers and is also self-imposterproof (RSBRSBORSBSI™).
The method is simple. we run a Ghost type with Purifying Salt, Rapid Spin and Infernal Parade. Basically, Purifying Salt acts as a pseudo FC + Ice Scales against Ghost-type moves and a pseudo Magic Guard because you can't be statused. This means that a bulky mon like Giratina can easily come in on Ghost Arc's Judgment and beat it 1v1. You can also Rapid Spin safely because you don't mind Ghosts coming in because you win 1v1. The biggest issue for this set is Imposter. However, with a bit of help you can beat Imposters 1v1. You see, gaining Purifying Salt doesn't remove your status condition (allegedly). this means if you for example Poison the Imposter beforehand, it will remain Poisoned even if it transforms into your PS mon, so your Infernal Parade will do double damage while theirs will never do double because your mon always had Purifying Salt the whole time.
This is the first and best RSBRSBORSBSI™ set. The idea is mostly explained above already. With Griseous Core, Knock Off and Strength Sap, you can beat Imposters 1v1 provided that you poison/burn it before hand. This does mean that you lose to Chansey/Blissey but at least you can knock them off. Alternatively you can run a fighting move but I think Knock is too good vs Imposters. Notably, this set also walls FC Zamazenta. You do not block the Mortal Spin but you don't get Poisoned and you can't get Knocked so overall it's a very good switchin. Note that the set is not self-proof if you run Recover. Again +Speed to outspeed neutral 100s offensive mons so you can Knock them first and take 30% less damage. This set CAN lose to Take Heart Ghost Arc but it's not too bad because you basically force a Take Heart/Recover if you play well. If you really want to beat Take Heart Ghost Arc, l'd recommend Topsy-Turvy or Spite. Spite is a very cool move because usually, the Ghost Arc only has Judgment to hit you so you can Spite away 4 PP. Do that 3 times and their Ghost Arc just becomes useless. If they also dare click Recover in front of you, they also get destroyed by Spite. Note that this move makes Imposters annoying if you don't win some speed ties to Spite the Imposter's Spite.
Here are calcs to show you beat Imposter if you status it:
252 SpA Griseous Core Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 138-164 (19.3 - 22.9%) -- 63.4% chance to 3HKO after poison damage
252 SpA Griseous Core Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 138-164 (19.3 - 22.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
252 SpA Giratina Infernal Parade (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 60-72 (11.9 - 14.2%) -- possible 7HKO
Here are calcs to show you beat Ghost Arc in an even position:
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Giratina: 132-156 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Griseous Core Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 272-324 (61.2 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
Flutter Mane @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infernal Parade
- Moonblast / Knock Off
- Pain Split
- Rapid Spin
Unfortunately we can't talk about Ghost types without menitoning our resident wannabe Mega Gengar. This is exactly the set you'd expect with respect to running a RSBRSBORSBSI™ set. Flutter Mane has such a high Spdef that it would have lost to Imposter except for Pain Split.
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Flutter Mane: 120-144 (38.2 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Ghost: 282-332 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
There are obviously pros and cons compared to Giratina. Flutter Mane is faster, can run double STAB because Pain Split beats blobs. You also sap block and kill dragons. It's a lot less bulkier, especially on the physical side so you might have to run other spinners in case Flutter gets too low.
Gholdengo @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infernal Parade
- Secret Sword / Knock Off / Spite
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap
To be honest, I'm an Aegislash enjoyer but that mon has no Spatk so you deal no damage even with a juiced Infernal Parade, so I have to unfortunately recommend Gholdengo. Gholdengo has the extra Steel type which means you can also block Mortal Spin. I wouldn't rely on that too much though since any competent Mortal Spinner should run a strong STAB or Fire/Ground/Fighting move to beat steels, and you only stop the Fighting coverage Mortal Spinners.
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Purifying Salt Gholdengo: 156-186 (41.2 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Purifying Salt Gholdengo: 144-170 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This mon is so bad we have to run Calm just to not get 2HKOd by Ghost Arceus Judgment after rocks. I personally think the 2 sets above this are better but if you need the cool Ghost/Steel typing then this is a viable option.
Wouldn't you prefer Mortal Spin over Rapid Spin in almost every mon? Also by self-proofing do you mean Imposter comes in, clicks Infernal Parade 5 times, switches out, and comes back and does the same thing again.
Also why are you allergic to Spin Ghostceus genuine set go sue your doctor
Nothing groundbreaking but I've been quite fond of this combo. Heracross is an easy "red-button go brrrrr" if the opposing team is unprepared. Alakazam, similarly, is a "pink button go brrrr" as well as a counter to both Arceus-Poison or Impostered Heracross. Another use case would be to switch into Alakazam for sap blocking following some Fur Coat/Unaware encounter. Meloetta has been a B-teir special wall in general, but in this case excels at Arceus-proofing and Alakazam-proofing. I've become an enjoyer of playing dual sweep as of recent, and the Phys/Special self-countering sweepers makes switching out favourable. Final rating: 7/10, pretty spicy but has room for improvement.
This post seeks to cover most stuff relating to entry hazards and their presence and interactions within BH, going over the different hazard types and their respective setters, removal options and their respective users, the matchups between setters & removers & removal blockers, and how hazards shape the metagame.
1. Introduction
Entry hazards are an essential aspect of nearly every metagame, and BH is no different. In fact, due to BH's universal availability, BH offers rather unique options for elements of the hazard game, with every single Pokemon capable of setting and removing them. As such, it is vital to recognize the common performers of each duty, what makes them effective, and the counterplay options. It is also useful to know how everything from individual Pokemon to entire archetypes revolve around hazards.
2. Entry Hazards Types and Setters
Due to the nature of BH there are limitless options for entry setters. This section will only cover some specific examples, a more detailed list of common users exists in the Role Compendium.
A. Stealth Rock/Stone Axe
Probably the most prevalent hazard type, entirely due to Stone Axe. Stone Axe is unique in that it can be used by RegenVest Pokemon, making it most splashable on some of the most utility-based Pokemon, and its non-negligible damage also makes it appealing on certain hybrid Pokemon. In particular, due to these traits Stone Axe is more influential than any other element in the hazard game, as its ease of use and presence on momentum-retaining RegenVest users means it is much more likely to maintain Stealth Rock up, and its damage dealing and PP render passive removal options like Defog and Tidy Up are barely viable. Stone Axe's presence also nearly forces every Rocks-weak Pokemon to run either Magic Guard or Heavy-Duty Boots (expanded on later), greatly limiting certain breaker's viabilities, such as Kyurem formes.
Generally Stone Axe can be used on almost anything that can fit it. The one exception is on the strong users of removal it is highly recommended to not run hazards as well. It is less important for hazard setters to beat removers, especially considering setters often carry other utility moves that help annoy the removers using moves like Tidy Up and Defog.
Almost every RegenVest user has the moveslot to fit Stone Axe for more utility. The main exception being Doom Desire + Dragon Tail who often wants Knock Off. RegenVest users not needing to waste turns recovering also gives them more opportunities to safely set Rocks. Magic Guard set relatively often can forgo Strength Sap in favour of a coverage move, of which Stone Axe is a viable option as it doubles as a coverage move for . It should be noted that this should generally not be the sole hazard setter of the team (pair with Spikes setters) due to its lack of recovery and reliance on full HP. Relatively similar to above, Magic Guard variants often run Stone Axe to set hazards for its team, and its damage output is non-negligible coming from its attack stat and potential Life Orb boost. As one of the few offensive Rock-types in the tier, it uses Stone Axe as a STAB on more utility based sets like Magic Guard. Wallbreaking sets generally prefer options like Mighty Cleave. An example of a non-RegenVest Pokemon that can have the moveslot to fit a hazard-setting move, but also usually is forced out fast enough to set Spikes. It also has enough attack stat to make Stone Axe deal sizable chip. An example of a Pokemon that can run both Stone Axe and Spikes if it has the moveslot, depending on what the team needs.
B. Spikes
Spikes more or less does the same thing in other tiers. Compared to Stone Axe it can be less splashable due to RegenVest users not being able to run it, and also a more challenging task of Imposter-proofing. Imposter is a stronger consideration when using Spikes because giving multiple turns to Imposter to set Spikes is highly undesirable, whereas with Stone Axe it only gets to set them up once. Magic Bounce is the most straight forward Imposter-proof but is quite committal, while other good options include a Spinner that beats the Spiker, having a Spiker that beats/deters Imposter, or having a team that does not care about Spikes.
Spikes can be fitted on both offensive and defensive Pokemon. Offensive Spike setters typically have some degree of longevity, and utilize Spikes as a surefire way to make progress even in front of checks, while their offensive presence generates turns from forced switches and deters certain removal options. Defensive Spike setters tend to just be defensive mons with spare moveslots, though it should be noted that turns spent spiking can compete with the opportunity to pivot to a progress maker instead.
Magic Guard set is a common utility Spiker. It is fully self Imposter-proof, bulky with a hard-to-exploit typing so breakers have a harder time forcing it out, and resilient through Magic Guard. It is also an excellent user of Knock Off to remove Boots to support itself. Spikes notably is a great way for it to make progress against checks like , , and Ice Scales Pokemon. It has enough offensive presence, Fairy-type STAB with potential Ghost STAB gives it great neutral coverage to conserve moveslots for Spikes, and its excellent capability of running Pain Split gives it a lot of longevity. Similar to above Spikes is great at progressing against hard-to-break walls. Regenerator sets are similar to the above where it has offensive presence and good longevity, while not benefiting much from running Stone Axe. An example of a more defensive Spike setter, non-RegenVest variants can fit Spikes to help reduce its passivity. Imposter-proofing defensive Pokemon can be more annoying, with a non-Bounce Improof for this being Rapid Spin .
C. Toxic Spikes
Toxic Spikes can be powerful at their highest potential, however there are a few factors in BH that limit its effectiveness despite the universal access to Toxic Spikes and Toxic Debris. is a grounded Poison-type that has consistently high usage, teams are already prepped against Spikes which automatically makes them resilient to Toxic Spikes, Take Heart being common reduces number of targets, and removal options being more available allows teams to control the damage done. Toxic Spikes as a concept also has been rather underexplored.
Running Toxic Spikes as a move has an immediate problem into teams with a Poison-type where it cannot setup TSpikes against any slow pivot. Toxic Debris frees up the turn to click an actual move, and one method that has been attempted to a good degree of success is to combine Toxic Debris with phazing from Red Card and Dragon Tail; the former prevents the U-turn user from being able to choose to pivot in the Poison-type and instead drag in a random Pokemon to potentially be poisoned, while Dragon Tail can double up and affect a second target while remaining to be a constant threat.
D. Sticky Web
Probably just as rare as Toxic Spikes, Sticky Web loses some of its luster in BH despite not being limited to suboptimal mons considering how there is less dependence on using offensive Pokemon to revenge-kill, as well as the presence of Imposter, which bypass Webs. It is similarly rather unexplored as a concept.
This is not to say that Webs are unviable, in fact it can be a powerful supporting/utility option. Sticky Web is most commonly paired with powerful wallbreakers with a middling speed, such as , , and . The former two, being physical breakers, appreciate the speed drop on faster physical walls like and formes, while the latter enjoys both checks like and a variety of potential revenge-killers slowed down so it can not only click more freely but also have more entry opportunities.
3. Hazard Countermeasures, and their Countermeasures
A. Mortal Spin
Mortal Spin is by far the most common form of hazard removal. Its excellent secondary effect along with being generally more splashable than its counterpart makes it the go-to removal for many teams. In comparison to Rapid Spin, there are more viable Pokemon capable of pressuring the Steel-types that block Mortal Spin than the Ghost-types in the tier. However, Steel-types with their few weaknesses and capability to offset all of them with common secondary-typings and/or defensive abilities can make many Mortal Spin users inconsistent, and it is for this reason that teams almost always opt for multiple removal.
Since Mortal Spin is blocked by Steel-types, the best users of Mortal Spin for the purpose of removal are ones that can threaten common Steel-types. Below is a list, sorted approx. by VR ranking, of such users and their respective viable spinblockers. It is important to note that even with strong removal options into opposing spinblockers Mortal Spin can still be blocked by getting several turn predictions right.
Its reasonable damage output with powerful Fighting-STABs like Combat Torque and more notably Triple Arrows make it risky to spinblock by most Steels. Combat Torque is more common but is less threatening than Triple Arrows, which can be very challenging to spinblock. is the exact same Pokemon for these purposes, as only physical sets run Mortal Spin.
Blockers - Fur Coat | |
Water isn't super effective into Steel, but its sky-high 180 SpA along with generally neutral coverage can threaten enough sufficiently, and has the bonus of doing particularly well into Primordial Sea. It should never be the primary removal option since it can always be blocked if the opponent commits to it. Mortal Spin is also used for its purposes of Poisoning switch-ins like Imposter. and are similar, but are even less threatening due to not packing as many utility moves usually, as well as the lower damage output.
Blockers - Ice Scales | RegenVest | Non-Primordial Sea excluding
Ground can be very good into Steels if not for and Levitate users, as tends to also have Imposter issues, affecting its coverage option. Magma Storm is the most potent, but its unreliability can be devastating and it gets completely walled by Fire-immune , so Thunder Cage is seen too.
Blockers - RegenVest | Fire-Immune Levitate Anything with workable SpD |
Powerful V-create is hugely threatening to Steel-types, but is severely hampered by the existence of Fire-immune abilities. Fire-neutral Steels like also can take one reasonably comfortably and threaten back with Stone Axe after the stat drops.
Blockers - Fire-Immune Anything | | None
Similar to , but it generally runs less coverage for Ground-immunes, most commonly using Salt Cure to pressure. Knock Off on RegenVest can remove Covert Cloaks as well. Main drawback is that Salt Cure is not instantaneous pressure, so opponent can sack health on blocker if needed.
Blockers - RegenVest | Levitate + Anything RegenVest | RegenVest Levitate Anything w/o
Very similar to . It can end up running Dragon-STAB over the third coverage on (e.g. Knock Off), which generally makes some matchups worse. However, its higher Atk and tendency to stack other boosts like MGLO and High Jump Kick make it more threatening.
Blockers - Fur Coat/Beak Blast | |
Barely viable and similar to the other Fighting-types. Its slower speed actually makes it slightly worse into some Steel-types as Thunderous Kick is less threatening than fast Triple Arrows, though the Electric-STAB allows it to annoy if it desires.
Blockers - Fur Coat | |
Mortal Spin is also used on some other Pokemon, but moreso for the Poison effect and occasionally the removal of partial trapping effect.
It is definitely a very poor remover, since Steel-types are already some of the most common switch-ins to it and it has no effective way to pressure them. However, its slow speed and defensive profile makes Mortal Spin valuable on its Ice Scales set to pressure certain special attackers such as and formes (Magic Guard SpAs are either which beats it anyways, or stuff like / who hate Moonblast. Notably, since it always underspeeds it is able to consistently deal chip through Take Heart. Mortal Spin also removes the trapping and passive damage from Thunder Cage, which is valuable in the 1v1.
It usually forgoes the Ground-STAB making it quite ineffective at actually spinning, but Mortal Spin's Poison chance is the best punish for Imposter-users since its Ground-typing blocks Nuzzle. In general the Poison-chance combined with solid Knock Off output makes it annoying to switch-into.
B. Rapid Spin
Rapid Spin is the second most common/reliable removal. It shares most of the traits with Mortal Spin, but it has even more PP, making it theoretically able to consistently defeat hazards in the hypothetical infinite-length game. The biggest issue for Rapid Spin is that Ghost-type is actually more challenging to contest than Steel-types, since it only has 2 weaknesses and one of them being itself. The common Ghost-types in the tier, and , are also rather difficult to pressure. These characteristics make effective Rapid Spin users few. However, Rapid Spin users do tend to be more reliable, since it is more difficult to offset the Ghost-type weaknesses with secondary typings and defensive abilities. Thus the blockers section will be omitted, with generally seen countermeasures being limited to FurScales and the very rare Purifying Salt.
Rapid Spin is also by far the most effective removal option when paired with -ate abilities since it becomes unblockable. However, -ate users are already few, and the few users tend to be hyper offensive sets that have no room to fit it, nor have the longevity to use it. Even the bulkier Pokemon like tend to not run Rapid Spin in favour of coverage or other utility options.
Not very effective at all, but it does usually beat Ghost-types 1v1 long term and can use the secondary effect from Rapid Spin to escape Thunder Cage. Opponent can as usual block if they absolutely need to.
Most viable Ghost-type, its strong Ghost-STAB naturally deters opposing Ghost-types from switching-in, and it has the bulk and usually the moveslot to fit Rapid Spin. Magic Guard is also excellent and common on it, making it more effective as a remover. Most commonly it runs Rapid Spin alongside Torch Song to act as a pseudo Double Dance setup, and sometimes Knock Off. The biggest issue with running Rapid Spin is that is also a great Spiker, along with certain defensive ability posing problems.
Most viable Dark-type. It doesn't have a great matchup into , but its strong Knock Off makes it never want to switch-in. Magic Guard is again also commonly used by it which make it more effective at removal. Knock Off's high PP also lets it easily pressure despite reduced power. Only issue is against Fur Coat Ghost-types as well as the rare and suboptimal Strength Sap variants if it isn't running Revelation Dance.
Because it usually is RegenVest, it is less effective than at pressuring out as it needs to switch out to heal, but it has a similarly strong Knock Off that dissuades every Ghost-type from switching-in. It usually prefers running Stone Axe though.
Barely viable, but otherwise similar to . Rapid Spin also faces less competition from running Mortal Spin to pressure Imposter since cannot poison Imposter, and thus uses Nuzzle instead.
Functions similarly to .
Functions similarly to
C. Court Change
Previously a defining factor in hazard games, even getting itself banned from Gen 8. Court Change's effectiveness has since plummeted. One critical factor is the lack of trapping/other self-improof options like Poison Heal; Imposter thus is a lot more difficult to deal with, which is critical for a Court Change user to prevent them from simply swapping it back. The other change is the rise of "superman" hazard stack structures (elaborated on later), which simply do not care about the hazards present on its own side and thus can continue to stack, making Court Change just a temporary relief and not a solution.
The most common user of Court Change in this meta is likely Imposter itself, as it generally has free moveslots for utility options. Imposter also only gets to use its moves against a transformed target, making it unlikely for opponent to reverse Court Change. This makes Court Change a solid momentum move on Imposter.
D. Tidy Up
A new addition this generation, Tidy Up theoretically sounds amazing. It is completely unblockable, and simultaneously acts as a Dragon Dance to increase offensive presence. In reality though, Tidy Up is one of the least effective removal options in the meta. Its terrible PP in comparison to every hazard and other removal move makes it ineffective at keeping hazards off, an issue further augmented by its dual purpose as a setup move. Its lack of immediate effect also makes it lose momentum long term against Stone Axe, which can continuously inflict chip while the Tidy Up user can be forced out immediately. Tidy Up also removes the user's hazards, which can be contradictory for setup Pokemon. Even as a setup move Tidy Up falls short, as with only 16 PP Strength Sap matches it and can trade 1-for-1, unlike Dragon Dance, while not providing the same bonuses like Shift Gear for slower setup Pokemon (e.g. ) or Victory Dance for Defense boosts.
E. Defog
Defog doesn't have the same offensive effect that Tidy Up has, and also is not a guaranteed removal against Good as Gold. It does, however, have more PP, matching Stone Axe, which when factoring in Stone Axe's accuracy means technically Defog is capable of winning against it. Considering Tidy Up's generally ineffectiveness as a setup move anyways, Defog becomes a niche option for more passive or specially oriented removers. Defog should usually be used as a backup removal options for teams, especially ones that contain certain more hazard-weak Pokemon that value the reliability Defog provides over the Spins.
F. Magic Bounce
Magic Bounce is unique on this list as a preventive measure. It also should never be used as a sole form of hazard control due to the presence of Stone Axe, unless one somehow designed their entire team to be Rock-resistant but Spikes-vulnerable. Instead, Magic Bounce can supplement standard removal options by helping to deny further hazards on the field by blocking Spikes. Magic Bounce is also often used for its other utility, namely blocking Strength Sap, as well as great improofing potential.
Magic Bounce can be excellent for denying teams that rely on stacking Spikes to make progress, but teams using it need to account for Stone Axe. This can include a combination of hazard-immune Pokemon and Rock-resistant Pokemon, such as and , and opting for slacker removal. Magic Bounce also works well on non-superman hazard stack structures itself, especially as an Improof to the team's Spike stackers.
Magic Bounce can be used on a fairly large pool of Pokemon, albeit to different degrees of effectiveness. Generally the choice depends on the targets to Bounce, whether its Strength Sap users, Spike setters, or teammates to improof. A good example of a Bounce user is . This rather niche Pokemon can serve as a good Bounce user by Sapblocking against common Take Heart formes such as , while also denying Spikes from the common , as well as to a degree.
G. Heavy-Duty Boots
Comfortably the most used item in the metagame, the high usage of is a good measure of how prevalent hazards are in the meta. It is nigh mandatory on non-Magic Guard non-Offensive Pokemon weak to Rock, such as and , and in general a strong contender for any defensive pick that is not Rock-resistant, simply due to how effective it can be to neutralize hazard damage. Even by just blocking Stealth Rock damage it offsets 2 turns of recovery. In general, even with good removal, should be the primary choice for any defensive Pokemon that does not resist Rocks and is vulnerable to Spikes, with the main contention from the critical utility from . Even Imposter is effective with it on teams without removal to function normally.
4. Impact of Hazards on BH Meta
A. Stone Axe and Rock-Resistance
One clear impact by Stone Axe's presence is the effect on Pokemon with relation to their resistance to Rock. Rocks-weak Pokemon tend to be rather hampered in this meta, indeed, the highest ranking Rocks-weak Pokemon are and , with the remaining in the C and D ranks. 's defensive sets are forced to run , leaving it vulnerable to Knock Off from Pokemon it aims to check. 's strongest set is Magic Guard, as its role as a switch-in would be a lot worse if it took Rocks damage every time after taking its Knock Off. Otherwise strong offensive breakers like the Kyurem's lose a lot of effectiveness when their entry opportunities are limited.
On the contrary, resisting Rock is a valuable trait, as it can allow the Pokemon to equip other items like and . Rock-resistant offensive breakers like also get more opportunities to switch-in while remaining at high-health. deserves a special mention, as while it does not resist Rock, it is immune to Spikes while being neutral to Rocks, an almost unique trait that almost single-handedly carried it to high ranks in the VR.
B. Prevalence of Magic Guard
Magic Guard is one of the most, if not the most used ability in the tier right now. It is good both offensively and defensively, as everything appreciates the immunity to hazards, poison/burn, and other residual damage. While not the sole reason, hazards are a big part of why Magic Guard is very common offensively despite the lack of a damage amp. Almost all of the most common offensive Magic Guards are Dragon-types that heavily rely on Dragon Energy as their main STAB, which demands maintaining near full HP to maintain power. A particular example is , whose Magic Guard set can be argued as more viable than the Sheer Force alternative because of its increased ease of use and consistency, especially for a rather prediction-reliant breaker.
C. Metagame Team Structures
a. Hazardstack as a wincon
Stacking hazards is unsurprisingly one of the main wincons in the current meta. Not only is it potent offensively in chipping down defensive Pokemon and enabling offensive Pokemon to clean up, but hazard stack also is excellent defensively by greatly limiting opposing breakers' entries. Powerful breakers like and that can rip through teams if given enough opportunities are heavily limited by presence of hazards, especially for slower breakers like the latter that get put into range of weaker moves from walls (e.g. often can use its respectable bulk to stay in against walls like Ice Scales and formes and spam Boomburst). This differentiates it from more traditional breaker-pivot structures where such teams can be more vulnerable to "who can win faster" matchups.
Hazardstack teams obviously require at least one Spiker, and rarely teams opt for two when affordable; Stone Axe is a given presence. Considering the main removal methods are the Spins, such teams should always pack at least one Steel-type, and a Ghost-type is near mandatory too to prevent difficult matchups vs Rapid Spin. Having 2+ Steel-types can also be appealing to have a stronger matchup into dual Mortal Spin. Multiple Knock Off users are also necessary to remove . Defensively, these structures need to have sturdy answers against the Magic Guard breakers in the tier, such as and . Court Change can be particularly annoying for hazardstack teams despite its rarity, and this along with the potential difficulties of improofing Spikes means that many hazardstack structures opt to be:
b. Superman as a structure
Superman is defined to be a team that generally forgoes hazard control completely (can still use Bounce/Mortal mainly for other utility) and instead has the entire team be immune to Spikes and not weak to Stealth Rock. This means using a lot of Magic Guard and (including on Imposter), as well as some other ways to be hazard resilient such as Pokemon like and Levitate Steel-types. Such teams lose out on some defensive and offensive potency, but in return get to mostly ignore a huge part of the game, and the minor defensive commitment is often compensated by avoiding hazard chip.
Hazardstack teams have a natural tendency to end up being superman because it easily resolves all the issues of Court Change and improofing Spikes, while reducing the risk into Magic Bounce. Now Court Change merely delays the presence of hazards on their side, and Spikes can be completely ignored when improofing since the team doesn't care if Imposter stacks up. Magic Bounce will still be problematic but having a Spike bounced is far less punishing.
Due to committing heavily to , superman teams generally need very solid Knock Off absorbers. For example, Magic Guard Spikes + Knock is a potent stacker that is also good at Knocking since it has solid matchups vs common Knock Off absorbers like and various Magic Guard Pokemon, which makes some choices like Magic Guard and interesting picks to completely shut it down.
It is important to note that while hazardstack tends to gravitate towards superman, superman by no means needs to be hazardstack. Superman teams can easily revolve around (most commonly) Magic Guard breakers as the main wincon, some forgoing Spikes entirely. Below are some examples of teams.
Hazardstack superman:
https://pokepast.es/c1e51f3f8d27da27
This sample has 2 Magic Guards, 3 Boots, and a Levitate . It doesn't have a lot of immediate offensive power, but instead relies on hazards and Knock Off to supplement and 's long term pressure and chip damage.
https://pokepast.es/922582ed2d53e806
This sample has 1 Magic Guard, 3 Boots, a Levitate and a . Compared to the above team this team commits more fully into the stack wincon with less offensive pressure but instead having two Spikes users, a Toxic Spike user, and the incorporation of phazing moves like Dragon Tail to accelerate chipping opposing key Pokemon.
https://pokepast.es/7f1ad81b8295e1cf
This team has 2 Magic Guards, 2 Boots, and a . It uses a combination of hazards pressure, especially from the unbounceable Teravolt Spiker, and several reasonably threatening Pokemon, particularly the somewhat dangerous .
Non-hazardstack superman:
https://pokepast.es/30e9484ac6ef355c
This sample has 3 Magic Guards, 2 Boots, and a . It in fact does not have hazards at all though (although it could be a potential option over Mortal Spin on ), and instead relies on long term pressure from and in conjunction to passive damage from status.
https://pokepast.es/4572ecc17d7d2e91
This older team has some flaws but can still serve as an example. It has 2 Magic Guards, 3 Boots, and a . While there are Spikes on this team, the intended focus is not on stacking (especially when the team lacks Knock Off somehow) but instead around the two Magic Guard breakers that aim to overload/eliminate checks for each other.
https://pokepast.es/463fbcc3edde8aa0
Latest Wandering Spirit Dialga team, this time with water spam. Very good vs regens bc , and a ground type () cover every Regen damaging utility moves. Water is also a very safe typing since only use Grass STAB and walls most tcage mons. Bring in on offensive mons to force them out. The rest of the team will easily break down at mons thanks to Knock, Revelation Dance, Stone Axe and Mortal Spin.
https://pokepast.es/97fafe66a7fa3ea6
Altered version of Big Spite. This one has Spite and . As mentioned previously, this team stacks Physical damage because we want to Spite off Recovers.
https://pokepast.es/cf22e791e46bcd88
This is a solo team. We put our faith that will win the game. Very cool tech with Imposter to proof the and click Knock and Spikes.
https://pokepast.es/c34fa6754c83e0f6
Rain team with Drizzle , SF LO Luster Purge and friends. This team also relies on to blow up all walls with Rain-boosted SF LO Steam Eruption. I know some people like Tinted Lens and that's definitely a very good set too. This set is weaker but it cares less about the Rain being up and Hazards.
With that being said, the last 2 teams are untested so they could definitely be improved. Here are the some quick set mentions to wrap this up.
MG LO with Uturn/HJK/Sunsteel + Dragon Energy/Psycho Boost - kills every fast mon like , after a tiny bit (<5%) chip. Need a bit more chip but does >70%+ to , , , etc. U-turn preserves momentum.
MG Globe +Def Rev or Scald/Knock/Mortal - Comes in on every Knock/Cure mon with ease. Reliable Spinner. Good pair with WANDERING SPIRIT and a ground type to cover 99% of all regen mons. With the right predictions, opponent Regens become useless. Emergency and soft check.
Max Speed Timid RegenVest - Outspeeds neutral 100s and below like , etc. Fast Knock Off basically means you never die to Choiced sets from full which is very useful.
Rocky Helmet MG +Def and - These mons performed surprisingly well in tests. You only need Flying STAB. Taunt, Spikes, Spite and Psychic Noise for are all good stallbreakers. +Def on both makes them quite tanky. They are so fast too which means the slow wallbreakers might not wanna switch in.
SF LO Luster Purge - Standard set but Luster Purge OHKOs , hits and very hard. Pair with Imposter for fun.
Fur Coat Eviolite - MG sidegrade, absolutely walls Shell Side Arm and Secret Sword and various but vulnerable to chip like Knock, Thunder Cage and Salt Cure. Diabolical Duo when the two are paired together though.
https://pokepast.es/f625060c46036656
This is a solo team. We put our faith that will win the game. Very cool tech with Imposter to proof the and click Knock and Spikes.
Felt like sharing a threatening imposter-proof set-up sweeper I've been running
Gyarados-Mega @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wave Crash
- Jaw Lock
- Strength Sap
- Victory Dance
Moves and Ability Choice
Magic Guard is simply an insane offensive and defensive ability. Most notably it gives Mega Gyarados a bunch of opportunities for switch-ins on top of its excellent base bulk ignoring the effects of hazards, salt cure, poison and leech seed. Forging Wicked Blow, Surging Strikes and Power Trip are key for this set to be imposter-proof as they would bypass the defense boost you need to survive the 1v1. Strength sap is here for its convenient -1 attack effect on top of giving this set some longevity. Wave Crash is the best water type option available that isn't surging strikes with its high BP relatively solid PP and no drawback with magic guard. Jaw Lock is needed for its trapping effect and is nice for dark stab all in one. Victory Dance is needed for the boost in speed and attack but also the defense boost to make the imposter 1v1 possible no matter how many boost you have.
Gameplan
The gameplan is to set up in the face of a mon you wall (rare but it happens), a mon who is immediately threatened by you and may be forced to heal or switch out or a passive mon who relies on chip damage. If they switch to an imposter mon you want to make sure you're ready to go for the sweep. Trap it with Jaw Lock then spam strength sap until they are at -1 attack and no longer have any victory dances to prevent the risk of crits. From that point on you can get +6 and PP stall the imposter mon out then sweep the rest of the team. Aim for a mid to late game sweep unless the opponent seems particularly hyper-offensive or incapable of immediately threatening this set. Teammates who can wear down and chip extremely bulky teams pair great with this set to help prepare it for the one opportunity it needs to get set up. This set can also serve as a way for more offensive teams to have just that little bit of extra defensive backbone.
Item Choice
Clear Amulet is used to speed up the process of 1v1ing imposter sets so it doesn't bring your attack down as well. It also allows even more opportunities to set up in the face of walls that rely on strength saps -1 attack debuff. It only takes one wrong guess from a wall that doesn't know you have clear amulet to get a sweep going. Toxic orb is another choice to prevent burn and paralysis which while not the most common can stop a sweep and toxic orb has the benefit of generally not worrying about knock off. Of course, you also have the option of life orb for more damage which has its recoil ignored with magic guard but it does make the setup opportunities more difficult. It can make up for Jaw Locks middling power perhaps. Leftovers can also work to increase survivability and perhaps find set-up opportunities in the face of threats you might barely not have the bulk to withstand.
Checks and/or Counters
Once this set gets going there's only a handful of things that can stop it. Strong fur coat mons namely fairy types such as Arceus-Fairy or Mega Audino give this set some trouble but Mega Gyarados's high special defense aids in combatting this. If they have topsy turvey they can serve as a hard counter, however. Strong water resist like the many bulky dragons might require some chip to break thanks to Jaw Locks low power but most don't immediately threaten a boosted Mega Gyarados hard enough to stop a sweep. Prankster mons with destiny bond can be annoying but with smart play can be beaten generally. By far the best way to deal with this set is mons who can threaten it before it's set up. Dragon tail mons, Offensive Koridon Sets, Offensively oriented Miradon sets, Pixilate fairy types, etc.
Anyway thanks for reading this far and if you decide to give this set a shot all I gotta say is: Happy shrimp fishing!
ok for this post to not be instantly deleted i will be sharing the bestest most effective sets for all of you to use on ladder for an instant 6-0 against everyone and reach #1 in 3 seconds
Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate / Earth Plate
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off / Thunder Cage
- Judgment
- Spikes
- Shore Up
ok so you know how effective knockspikes ghostceus is
what if we made him fire instead
fireceus is like ghostceus but you resist big vcreate and not weak to knock and probably does something else i am forgetting idk just trust me this guy works ok
if you remember how broken slaking was with guts facade then you will absolutely love this guy because they do completely different things and literally have 0 similarities at all other than being immune to status
sd facade + taunt is a fairly effective stallbreaker because you cant be statused + you taunt them. just be aware of salt cures and have something else to lure steels.
the improofing is dumb but shhh ignore that
alright the above guys at least makes kind of some sense (in the mon choices) but the next guys are so spicy your opponent will forfeit on preview out of mental damage from seeing a shitmon and not knowing what it does
are you sick of being walled by cringe mons such as zamazenta or mega audino as rocky payload rockceus? say no more! fix all of your life problems with a simple change to glimmora with its high spa and secondary stab that completely smacks both!!!!!!!!!!
MY MOM (Snorlax) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Body Slam
- U-turn
- Stone Axe / Nuzzle
- Knock Off
big lax is like blissey if she wasnt omega passive
yeah thats really just it
i guess he has ok physdef to take secret swords but otherwise just use him as regenvest blissey that deals damage
THE FOLIVOREAN (Zekrom) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Glaive Rush
- Volt Tackle / Spikes
- Thunder Cage
the mixed guy of all mixed guys. you click tcage and then like nothing walls you bar ting-lu because mixed electric + phys dragon/fire is basically unwallable. alternatively you can exchange some of that unwallable-ness for pretty consistent spikesetting
john smogon (holy shit) is here from sword and shield overused to terrorize scarlet and violet balanced hackmons
he does this by doing roughly the same thing as the orbfacade zacian above but trading speed and fairy typing for ground stab + higher atk. unfortunately he still sucks into celesteela
ok thats all of the shit ""worth"" sharing in my builder now what are you waiting for go and spam them on ladder rfn
It wouldn't work, because Scarlet/Violet has code that specifically prevents you from hacking in specific formes, like Terapagos-Stellar, so the only way to get Terapagos-Stellar is to Terastalize Terapagos mid-battle, which is impossible to do in BH because Tera is banned. In NatDex BH you could hack in Terapagos-Stellar though, before it got banned anyways.
Assuming you swapped it with a different mon (i'll use Blissey) since you can't use Stellar Terapagos, it could, as long as you swap some things around.
1: Give it actual ability
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Burning Bulwark
- Salt Cure
- Jungle Healing
- Shore Up
Sample Team Submission: https://pokepast.es/320fcbe258f638ac
Team Name: Grand Order; Andromeda Astramentis
Effectiveness: Peaked 2000 in my dreams.
Blaziken-Mega @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Population Bomb
- Blizzard / Focus Blast
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
I am once again asking people to try out this underrated set. I think everyone is too focused on Shift Gear/Band chicken set to realize there are other options. Unlike usual chicken sets, this one packs much more utility and flexibility in game plan. All of our moves are special which means that traditional FC sets do not wall this very well. With a bit of Knock support, every FC apart from become vulnerable to being Paralysed with Zap Cannon and 2HKOd with Magma Storm, Focus Blast or Population Bomb. On the other hand, Ice Scales and RegenVest walls will also struggle to halt this demon chicken's onslaught thanks to Population Bomb. Population Bomb boasts an impressive 65% chance of flinching its target. Considering 's damage output, a single flinch is devastating to any Ice Scales wall attempting to force it out.
I highly recommend you try out the complementary team I have provided above to experience the power of this set. Both and improofs it fairly well. EDIT: I think Blizzard is overall better than Focus Blast since Magma Storm already hits Steels. Blizzard is useful vs Dragons and Grounds.
Kyurem-White @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Blizzard
- Magma Storm
- Zap Cannon
- Population Bomb
This is the second set and it's new. The idea is that special Ice-type moves suck (look it up), BUT with No Guard, has access to 100% accurate Blizzards which is not bad. The reason why Blizzard is a useful addition is because of how well it synergizes with Zap Cannon. Blizzard obviously hits Ground-types like and very hard, but not only that it also hits one of the few Electric-types hard too. The obvious downside of the set is the rocks weakness. Such is the life of and in gen 9 BH. However with Hazard control or Wish support, this mon can be extremely devastating to traditional defensive cores. I will say that although both of these No Guard sets can be self-proof (provided the Imp is para'd and you hax them), this set is more difficult to improof because of the lack of good Ghost types. Can be run with an Ice Scales Cover Cloak with Pain Split as an improof.
Kyogre-Primal @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Population Bomb
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Origin Pulse
Finally, who can forget my favourite fish: . THIS IS THE FIRST OFFENSIVE KYOGRE SET FOUND IN 2025 GENERATION 9 BALANCED HACKMONS (rain-based sets are fake, just use or instead. I'm not sure if Origin Pulse is better than Steam Eruption because I think the Paralysis is what makes these slow mons viable offensively. Origin Pulse similarly blows up Ground-types that want to switch in to Zap Cannon, albeit not as well as 's Blizzard. However, this mon is rocks-neutral and has higher Attack as compensation which is not bad. I recommend proofing this with Rocky Helmet MG .
Blaziken-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- V-create
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
It’s shift gear chicken but a lil less auto damage and more setup = win. Everything but vcreate does more than if dland shift gear which can be really useful and with rocks up vcreate still gets nearly all the kills it did before this set just makes it easier to muscle past stuff like mirai etern mg korai unec pseasteela etc etc due to SD + lorb boosted headlong and cc hitting mighty hard.
ok for this post to not be instantly deleted i will be sharing the bestest most effective sets for all of you to use on ladder for an instant 6-0 against everyone and reach #1 in 3 seconds
Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate / Earth Plate
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off / Thunder Cage
- Judgment
- Spikes
- Shore Up
ok so you know how effective knockspikes ghostceus is
what if we made him fire instead
fireceus is like ghostceus but you resist big vcreate and not weak to knock and probably does something else i am forgetting idk just trust me this guy works ok
if you remember how broken slaking was with guts facade then you will absolutely love this guy because they do completely different things and literally have 0 similarities at all other than being immune to status
sd facade + taunt is a fairly effective stallbreaker because you cant be statused + you taunt them. just be aware of salt cures and have something else to lure steels.
the improofing is dumb but shhh ignore that
alright the above guys at least makes kind of some sense (in the mon choices) but the next guys are so spicy your opponent will forfeit on preview out of mental damage from seeing a shitmon and not knowing what it does
are you sick of being walled by cringe mons such as zamazenta or mega audino as rocky payload rockceus? say no more! fix all of your life problems with a simple change to glimmora with its high spa and secondary stab that completely smacks both!!!!!!!!!!
MY MOM (Snorlax) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Body Slam
- U-turn
- Stone Axe / Nuzzle
- Knock Off
big lax is like blissey if she wasnt omega passive
yeah thats really just it
i guess he has ok physdef to take secret swords but otherwise just use him as regenvest blissey that deals damage
THE FOLIVOREAN (Zekrom) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Glaive Rush
- Volt Tackle / Spikes
- Thunder Cage
the mixed guy of all mixed guys. you click tcage and then like nothing walls you bar ting-lu because mixed electric + phys dragon/fire is basically unwallable. alternatively you can exchange some of that unwallable-ness for pretty consistent spikesetting
john smogon (holy shit) is here from sword and shield overused to terrorize scarlet and violet balanced hackmons
he does this by doing roughly the same thing as the orbfacade zacian above but trading speed and fairy typing for ground stab + higher atk. unfortunately he still sucks into celesteela
ok thats all of the shit ""worth"" sharing in my builder now what are you waiting for go and spam them on ladder rfn
Sample Team Submission: https://pokepast.es/3c08e3932b238dd7
Team Name: Grand Order; Andromeda Astramentis
Effectiveness: Peaked 2000 in my dreams.
Blaziken-Mega @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Population Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
I am once again asking people to try out this underrated set. I think everyone is too focused on Shift Gear/Band chicken set to realize there are other options. Unlike usual chicken sets, this one packs much more utility and flexibility in game plan. All of our moves are special which means that traditional FC sets do not wall this very well. With a bit of Knock support, every FC apart from become vulnerable to being Paralysed with Zap Cannon and 2HKOd with Magma Storm, Focus Blast or Population Bomb. On the other hand, Ice Scales and RegenVest walls will also struggle to halt this demon chicken's onslaught thanks to Population Bomb. Population Bomb boasts an impressive 65% chance of flinching its target. Considering 's damage output, a single flinch is devastating to any Ice Scales wall attempting to force it out.
I highly recommend you try out the complementary team I have provided above to experience the power of this set. Both and improofs it fairly well.
Kyurem-White @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Blizzard
- Magma Storm
- Zap Cannon
- Population Bomb
This is the second set and it's new. The idea is that special Ice-type moves suck (look it up), BUT with No Guard, has access to 100% accurate Blizzards which is not bad. The reason why Blizzard is a useful addition is because of how well it synergizes with Zap Cannon. Blizzard obviously hits Ground-types like and very hard, but not only that it also hits one of the few Electric-types hard too. The obvious downside of the set is the rocks weakness. Such is the life of and in gen 9 BH. However with Hazard control or Wish support, this mon can be extremely devastating to traditional defensive cores. I will say that although both of these No Guard sets can be self-proof (provided the Imp is para'd and you hax them), this set is more difficult to improof because of the lack of good Ghost types. Can be run with an Ice Scales Cover Cloak with Pain Split as an improof.
Kyogre-Primal @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Population Bomb
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Origin Pulse
Finally, who can forget my favourite fish: . THIS IS THE FIRST OFFENSIVE KYOGRE SET FOUND IN 2025 GENERATION 9 BALANCED HACKMONS (rain-based sets are fake, just use or instead. I'm not sure if Origin Pulse is better than Steam Eruption because I think the Paralysis is what makes these slow mons viable offensively. Origin Pulse similarly blows up Ground-types that want to switch in to Zap Cannon, albeit not as well as 's Blizzard. However, this mon is rocks-neutral and has higher Attack as compensation which is not bad. I recommend proofing this with Rocky Helmet MG .
I am back with some more epic No Guard teams. This one features No Guard and a spicy tech in Rocky Helmet Imposter . The real Improof assuming you haven't para'd the Imposter is Ice Scales Covert Cloak .
Sample Team Submission:Cataclysmic Conception beneath the Sea of Milk; Blackwater Behemoth https://pokepast.es/f498694a50dd4b6a Effectiveness: 100% win rate with unfathomable sample size.
This one features No Guard and MG LO with a spicy Knock Off + Axe Kick set. Absolutely insane.
If we're going to be posting teams, I suppose it falls on me to post something that's actually good. Here's the team I've been using to bully ladder for the last few months. There's nothing groundbreaking about this team, just six good sets that work well together to make a hazardless balance. Ting Lu is probably the most crucial guy on the team, he scouts, soft checks, and knocks a good 80% of the meta, being a good midground into pretty much anything; he's also the only pivot, so you gotta use him to bring in Sceptile safely in a lot of games. Imposter is there as a must into ladder, because it's a huge pain to try and play when you can't figure out whatever wacko sets they're using, and it also usually wins because they fucked up their improofing or used it too much mid battle and suddenly you knocked the helmet guy that they were using to keep their pop bomb guy from winning. Unaware Etern is the other half of the anti ladder reliability core, it gets revdance to beat normalize, unaware to give you an out versus a lot of setup people, and tcage so you can actually make a bit of progress - it's great into arcs that have a take heart or two up but haven't realized you're unaware, since they get trapped and then you just kill them through their boosts. Then we've got a fairly standard FurScales core, which also gives us a backup clearing in the rare matchups where Ting Lu can't keep things off the field and a secondary wincon in arc; tcage arc water is less improofed than most tcage arceuses, but it's fine because you have chansey + eternatus + sceptile. Rounding out the team is sceptile, who wins out over other MGLO dragons by just plain being faster, and speed control is king. Great if they reveal they're some dragon judgment np entrain dragapult bullshit that beats your Etern, or such, and can sometimes even break things too if you can spread enough knocks and chip damage. You could probably run stone axe here but I don't really find myself missing the lack of hazards too much. Chansey is one of my usual sets here, sapblocks and traps the enemy if they get greedy trying to fish for a win with one of your special attackers.
any thoughts on the move eerie spell on one of your regenvests in a double regenvest structure as an alternative to spite? as opposed to like idk clear smog
ive been wanting to build around that for a while but im unsure of its viability
I haven't tried Eerie Spell because I think the 8 PP, Special category and only -3 PP effect makes it walled by RegenVest. It might be usable on an offensive regen mon like Kyogre or Necrozma who can force an FC/Scales in though with mixed offensive moves. It's also not bad if you want to Eerie Spell opposing offensive moves Dragon Energy or V-create rather than Recover. Although I don't think it's very good, I haven't put my mind into trying it so it might actually be alright in the right set.
any thoughts on the move eerie spell on one of your regenvests in a double regenvest structure as an alternative to spite? as opposed to like idk clear smog
ive been wanting to build around that for a while but im unsure of its viability
the idea's definitely cute but the thing is that against regen (with or without vest), people will almost never be staying in to use weak attacks cause you just regen it off. the way to play around regenvest is to wear it down with knock/status/hazards, and switch around into safe mons (imposter, fastmons, regen) so as to never lose to uturn -> breaker. maybe once in a while you catch a recover or get a clutch endgame vs dragon energy stuff, but moves like knock, axe, nuzzle are far more likely to be useful over the majority of the game
This is just a meta rambling post (as promised by the vr update post) that covers some meta trends that have occurred since HPL. The main tours between this period were World Cup, Championships, and Ghosting, and despite these not being the most significant of tours we have seen the meta roughly solidify around developments both made during and after HPL. This also serves as a rough guide for anyone to catch up on the current meta.
Fast Walls Slow Breakers
This basically is the defining characteristic of this meta right now, and it is rather unique and interesting when compared to any other BH meta. With previous defining fast wallbreakers like Mewtwos and Zac-C that had both insane speed and offenses being banned/mechanic locked, there is now more competition between offensive mons with tradeoffs between speed and power.
The 3+2 non-breaker speed control +
The defining speed control options, the trio of Zamazenta, Flutter Mane, and Miraidon serve as the main speed control options for teams that did not opt for one of the fast offensive Pokemon (Sceptile, Zacian-C, Aerodactyl, Deoxys, Alakazam, and Pheromosa). In particular, they provide excellent defensive utility and thus are way more splashable and common.
By hitting the 135 speed mark, these Pokemon outspeed threats like Ultra Necrozma, Eternatus, and Ash Greninja. Outspeeding UNecro and Ashgren is specifically very useful, and all of these Pokemon do actually scare them out while in. This revenge-killing + soft checking potential grants an out for teams that might not be fully equipped to handle coverage fish sets of either wallbreaker, which is also why you basically never see fastest mon Eternatus, much less fastest mon Arceus teams these days. It is simply not very hard to fit one of these 5 pokemon on the team.
To cover briefly why these Pokemon are used. Zamazenta is the premier non-Arc Fur Coat currently and one of the more reliable removal options. Flutter Mane provides the near mandatory Fairy-type, is one of the best Spikers, and is very customizable. Miraidon has an incredibly useful typing and great STABs, being able to force out all slower Dragons. Koraidon is Zamazenta but trades checking Garchomp at all for better matchup into Blaziken and ability to forgo Fur Coat, and it also scares off Eternatus. Zacian is by far the nichest of the 5, but is a Fairy, faster than all the 135s and has good matchup, and can go either FurScales.
The 3 slow wallbreakers
Pretty much the 3 most common breaker wincons. To clarify, by slow it is with respect to Arceus's 120 speed. The most notable feature of SVBH that allows these slower wallbreakers to thrive is the recovery nerf. Without being able to match the pp of the main STAB moves with Recover, it is no longer viable to recover spam stall out threats. This is most impactful for Gardevoir, since it can often just stay in to spam Boomburst in front of walls that do not technically get 2HKOed from full.
Another reason is the high usage of the fast walls. Walls like Zamazenta and Miraidon greatly limit the advantage wallbreakers like Ashgren have, while even faster attackers like Sceptile and Alakazam have flaws offensively. Meanwhile, these faster walls often have less bulk, and the listed 3 wallbreakers are able to capitalize on that using their nuclear power, while still having enough speed to outspeed any of the slower, fatter than Arceus walls.
Garchomp is by far the hardest to counter of the 3. Having two very strong STABs along with ability to pick coverage moves to dismantle any checks make it almost impossible to answer it long term, especially coupled with its super effective coverage to OHKO targets and its unique Stealth Rock resistance. However, it also has the least immediate damage output to neutral targets and immunities for both STABs, making it easier to soft check in short term.
Gardevoir has the most spammable move in Boomburst, and unlike the 2 physical breakers it doesn't rely on sapblocking teammates, and overall is more self sufficient. It does heavily dislike an increase in Steels, especially the faster Arceus-Steel, and it can be annoying to find opportunities to bring in relative to the others as it has a worse time finding OHKO targets (Chomp has SE targets).
Blaziken's V-create is incredibly warping in its switch-ins: anything that is not a Giratina/Slowbro/Fur Coat resist will take irrecoverable damage especially compounded with sapblocking. It's reliance on the nuclear V-create is also its largest vulnerability, as running Desolate Land forgoes boosting other moves, making opponents carrying one of the aforementioned sturdier checks more difficult to bypass. Blaziken is also unique of the 3 as the one to have the most viable boosting set, Shift Gear Life Orb hits OHKO thresholds after a boost that Garchomp cannot reach.
Arceus formes
Arceus formes are still mandatory on every team, there is simply no reason to not use one. There has been some development where using a non-FurScales set is completely fine, partially due to the effectiveness of the faster walls. The 8 listed are generally the only used types, other types are very very niche.
Ghost remains the most popular forme, but ironically is one of the least defensive formes. Magic Guard sets are excellent at hazard games, either being a great Spiker or solid spinner. Fur Coat still retains the niche of being able to freely use Recover without worrying about Imposter in the slightest, but the lack of item slot makes it particularly vulnerable to hazards, and so it has generally fallen off a lot. Magic Bounce is niche but does effectively counter Zamazenta, although it needs a way to deal with status.
Fairy is still one of the most effective Fur Coat users in the tier, being a Fairy-type that can mostly switch into Garchomp well. Scales sets however are almost entirely outclassed by Audino, since Strength Sap is trolling and Recover sets can't as effectively run utility and deter Imposter. Pixilate remains a niche offensive option with a myriad of possible utility moves.
Steel is perhaps the strangest appearance for anyone unfamiliar with current meta. Steel's defining niche is its capability to run Recover sets while remaining most selfproof, and unlike Ghost it has a better defensive typing. The typing is particularly useful into Flutter Mane and Gardevoir before even abilities. Nasty Plot + Fist/Earth Plate sets are the main sets and can run numerous different abilities, with main ones being Levitate, Well-Baked Body, and Good as Gold, the latter stops the common anti-setup Topsy-Turvy while funnily full blocking Flutter Mane's recovery from Pain Split. Ice Scales would require a different set to handle Eviolite Imposter, but is a fairly solid Scales user, having good matchup into Flutter Mane and special Dragons.
Electric mainly differentiates from Miraidon with the lack of Dragon-typing and associated weaknesses, as well fitting Secret Sword comfortably to handle Blobs. This makes Electric a surprisingly solid and unique Scales user, being notably able to switch into most mixed attackers like Necrozma and SF Ashgren thanks to a lack of weaknesses and a valuable resistance to Bolt Strike. Fur Coat sets struggle with the weakness to Garchomp while taking up the Arceus slot, so are generally outclassed by Miraidon who at least resists Blaziken's V-create.
Water is the only used forme that resists V-create, making it already unique as a Fur Coat. The defensive typing is also just generally useful, although a weakness to Bolt Strike does hurt it. Combined with a vulnerability to moves like Thunder Cage and Salt Cure makes it definitely nicher than the previous formes and faces competition from the likes of Slowbro, but still a solid mon.
Fighting is actually quite good, for all the same reasons Zamazenta is good, and only suffers because Zamazenta is able to mostly do the same things while not taking up the Arc slot. However, if a team can comfortably spare the Arc slot and was planning on running Zamazenta, then changing it with Fighting is almost always good, considering the decline of Ashgren and Arceus's significant bulk over Zamazenta for Garchomp.
Poison is also a recent meta development and will be covered in a later part.
Ground is easily the least viable of the listed formes, but Scales sets do retain a niche. Its largest issue is Imposter matchup and facing competition from formes like Electric for the Scales slot, considering that Electric also checks mixed Necrozma sets. Ground's niche is hitting Eternatus super effectively, but it requires a way to handle Shell Side Arm poisoning.
The 120<x<135 area
Not much has particularly changed for these 3. Eternatus is hardly impacted by any development of the mons around it, and continues to remain a dominant offensive and support option. The other two has continued their decline. Necrozma is still very threatening since it outspeeds all of its checks while none of the 135+ mons can switch in safely, but it generally is annoying to use with coverage and predictions. Greninja faces a lot of competition from the two slow physical breakers with the popularity of the fast Fur Coats that render its speed negligible, but against Fur Coat Arceus formes it can have an easier time, and Sheer Force sets if able to set up the right conditions can be very difficult to answer.
The even faster mons
Again not much has changed. Main ones are Sceptile still somewhat declining from its original boom but is roughly settling in a fair place, and Alakazam falling even further as it is just annoying to make it work despite it being threatening on paper. Worth noting that with Alakazam falling so are its specialized answers like Meloetta and Muk-Alola.
Some other meta trends and me yapping
A bit less common than like 1 month ago but Chansey is very very good, almost entirely due to its ability to eat up Shell Side Arms and even weak Secret Swords. The increase in Chansey usage is the most impactful change to Etern, as standard MG sets can find it a lot more annoying to deal with Chansey. This trend also means Blissey Imp is more common, the forgoing of Eviolite isn't usually that significant especially if there's enough speed control. One item that has basically never been used before is Leftovers, which offers some nice healing and effective bulk increase, and crucially gives a very favourable matchup in Thunder Cage matchups.
With the ubiquity of Zamazenta and Flutter Mane the Poison-type is suddenly relevant again, as it has great matchups into both as a Magic Bouncer. Arceus-Poison is less passive especially being a great user of Shell Side Arm (hits same natured Audino, and defaults to special on FC Fairyceus), while Clodsire doesn't take up Arc slot and is immune to Thunder Cage, posing as an annoyance to another one of the common mons, Miraidon.
This sucks that I have to mention it but people do find it nice as a non-Arc Steel-type to do all the Steel-type things while not having a Ghost-weakness unlike Solgaleo.
Less of a trend but I do really like these two mons as Regen users sometimes because of their high physical defenses. This makes them excellent soft checks to Garchomp by scouting the choice lock and finding opportunities to heal off later. In fact I would argue Relaxed Ting-Lu feels more appealing than Sassy. Slowbro also is great by offering the Blaziken V-create switch-in teams often struggle to find.
This is half troll but if your team is very weak to Blaziken and has a Fur Coat that is neutral to V-create but can somewhat afford the item slot (think Zamazenta) you can run this niche item to make V-create much more handleable, dealing 55ish instead of 85.
Yeah RegenVest set sucks, maybe people can try to make MG or FC work and it can come back up a bit.
FTR I think C+ is extremely generous for it for a mon that went 8-23 across BH tours last year. I think physical sets are lowkey trolling at this point, being weak to too many of the fast guys is just not good and Sunsteel resists are fairly common. Special sets are actually interesting if someone manages to make them work.
A term that's been floating around in the BH community for many years now, pertaining to teams, is "easy to use". Though this term is not really defined anywhere, it's pretty relevant, particularly in the process of sample team decision. This is important! I'm sure all of you have seen Blunder's video from a couple months ago where he brings a sample team (granted, an old one) and does NOT have an easy time using it. In this case, "easy to use" clearly failed us. But how did this happen? And how can we prevent it from happening again?
We spend entire suspects arguing about what "broken" and "uncompetitive" mean, and I think it's time to extend that. My main goal here is to establish a dialogue. What does "easy to use" actually mean (especially in the eyes of the council)? How relevant is it? What should our sample teams (and other beginner resources) actually look like?
1. Safe vs. Easy
I would describe our sample teams as very safe. Six of the ten carry slow RegenVest pivots, while the other four have MG Chansey/Blissey, a mon that serves a relatively similar role as a general special blanket check. To be sure, these are effective and straightforward mons, but they certainly aren't the only way to build, and they can often get you into slow and difficult-to-play positions. Let's start by looking at another team structure: one that doesn't carry a slow RegenVest itself, but has Imposter to punish RegenVest (a silly example being this team).
Though I'm sure no one would deny that this team structure is viable, a line I hear often is that new players struggle to grasp the idea of consistently hard switching in Imposter against RegenVest. To this I would argue: you know what's even more difficult than that? Making an offensive plan against Imposter as the RegenVest user. RegenVest teams are often desperately reliant on the slow pivot's momentum in order to accomplish anything at all, and with Imposter in the picture they can be stuck maneuvering very carefully and preserving their defensive resources as best they can until an opportunity presents itself. QT and other strong players are good at this. New players aren't--and more importantly, they typically don't have fun doing it, either.
Another thing I wanted to say is that we need to stop pretending that offense is unviable. I think the metagame is at a strange sort of point where since so many balance teams already exist, it's hard to imagine that any alternative could be strong, but at the same time Akira's semi-joking remarks of "Cirno HO would've won this game if it were brought" are never completely unfounded, and that's with a meme team (and undeniably an easy-to-use one) of all things. The only reason I stopped queueing ladder with the Great Tusk team is because I kept loading into random Court Change bullshit which instawins vs webs offense (this move isn't good but it can be toxic as hell sometimes).
2. Comparison to OU
I was wondering if OU had the same sort of framework as here, so I asked the following question in the OU discord:
yo, i got a few questions for council (though anyone else can also answer them), hope this is the right channel
my questions r mostly about what makes a good sample team
first of all, of course sample teams must be viable, but can "viability" look like very lopsided matchup spreads where sometimes the team will be hugely favored but other times it'll have almost no play at all?
or is it only acceptable for them to have balanced matchup spreads where every matchup is playable to a degree
second of all, how high of a priority is ease of use? if a team requires sophisticated bluffs or hard-to-see positional ideas to get payoffs, does it make for a worse sample team? in general, how would you define "ease of use"?
finally, should a sample team remain very strong even after it's been revealed? (i.e. is it unacceptable for them to be over-reliant on sets being unknown?)
I didn't get any responses from the council, but some regulars did give some pretty illuminating answers.
(A)
I am not the council but usually from what I understand
Sample teams are usually very strong even if you know what's up with them
Remember a big part of the audience for sample teams are new players
It's meant to refine their gameplay so that they understand how to play the tier
On any given sample team
Your main goals should be give players a good team that they can pickup and see success with through gameplay even when sets are known
because if I know the set and it's whole deal is bluffing and is bad/mediocre otherwise then it's not a good set/worth using
ease of use is harder to define but
generally it doesn't have some complicated setup for it's win condition
take a look at the sample teams
all of them have a pretty clear gameplan
the hos wanna overwhelm the opponent with sheer hazards and setup
offense plays fast but not too recklessly
etc etc
Here "easy to use" means "can easily make straightforward and direct gameplans".
(B)
Mostly no, fairly high, and yes. Consistency is something we look for in samples, even if the team is known, and more straightforward teams are more valued in samples. If a team needs to be unknown to work it won't be a sample, it's not a good ladder team and it's probably a flawed team in general. Ease of use does have a limit as we do try to keep all styles on the samples, and that inevitably pops up with some more awkward choices (stall requires a good bit of meta knowledge and can be very sketchy this gen as an example, but we still normally keep one). Ease is use at least how I would describe it, is how much experience and metagame knowledge it requires to pilot effectively. Teams that rely on doubling or a lot of midgrounds, aim to position specific mons repeatedly, etc are generally harder to use and less useful as samples imo.
Also I'm room staff not council, but we are the ones that compile samples so hopefully that could answer your questions
In this case, it means "not requiring meta knowledge or specific, subtle sequences of plays".
3. Who cares?
Did you know that Pokemon requires you to learn things? Sometimes when I look at RMTs for main tiers/old gens, I'll see some shit like "If you suspect Raging Bolt to be SubCM based on the team structure, calc damage on it to determine how much speed it has, if it's fast then go to Boulder and bluff CB but if you already revealed SD then make sure to preserve your Tera so you can Tera Rock and get the kill from 70 with Mighty Cleave. Also you lowkey lose to Tera Flying Hawlucha lololol but you can bluff a defensive spread on your Shocks and they'll run away I did this 3 times it always works". (These aren't samples, but if I were learning the tier, I would start with them, because they actually concretely explain what's going on, instead of leaving me wondering whether I'm supposed to be having a hard time vs certain mons or whether the team is just some old ass SPL team that got grandfathered into current samples somehow.)
They're working with Tera and limited EVs over there, but BH can have the same level of complexity, something that I do think we learned in the ghosting tour. I think we do a great disservice to both the metagame and new players if we deny this fact and insist that the only thing anyone really needs to know is how to U-turn to, like, Gardevoir and click Boomburst ten times in a row, and that everything else is just fancy stuff (le schizo dark magic!!11!!1) that's mostly aesthetic in nature. I wouldn't continue to play this game if it didn't have complexity and intrigue at the top level, even if I am often disappointed with how few serious options there often are on each turn compared to like OU. I'll still take this any day of the week over fucking Hydro Pump and Rock Slide, though.
Sure, something like Imposter interactions can be a lot to take in for new players, but that's the fucking game. If you're new in ADV OU and you mindlessly go Skarmory on every lead physical attacker, you'll lose a lot of games to a well-timed Magneton switch--should there be no sample teams with Skarmory? If you play too recklessly with your physical walls, you'll get cleaned out by an unrevealed last CB Aerodactyl quite often--should every team carry a physically defensive Swampert with special instructions to only send it out vs. Aerodactyl? The average BH new player is getting a random mon poisoned by Mortal Spin Audino by turn 15 anyway. (Unless they're using offense. Offense teaches you how to kill.) (Also sometimes even veterans get their random mons poisoned by Mortal Spin by turn 15 lol)
Anyway, end of the day I just want more diverse samples, as long as they're decently performing and don't autolose if you know what you're doing. Personally, my barrier for decently performing is v87 rain and Hallward's original WASP Dialga team during their respective primes, though I welcome any and all disagreements. But I want offense, I want weird stall, I even maybe want one or two oddball teams that actually do require a little bit of precision.
Thanks for reading. I hope this post will spark some useful discussion. I want to submit some strong offense teams here, but making anything else as good and awesome as the Great Tusk team is a tall ask, and I also don't want to submit anyone else to the despair that is the Court Change matchup. That's right, this post was anti-Court Change propaganda all along. This move has no place in a healthy metagame, regardless of its viability. Keep my screens on my side and their hazards on theirs. etc etc
These remarks are deadly serious at all times.
I have created a matchup chart below to demonstrate that Cirno has favorable odds against more of the sample teams than those against which it does not.
As you can see, many teams in the sample pool tend to lack ice resists or have poor fairy resists, in addition to few ways of gaining momentum against a hyper offensive team like Cirno that doesn't even need the setup turns of webs, screens or set up to get going.
That said, I think this is shifting and the samples being slightly out of date don't reflect current meta trends which seem to be unfavorable for Cirno.
Chessking's post above describes the recent meta trends in more detail, but Cirno really doesn't appreciate the higher usage of Registeel and Steelceus over Dialga or Celesteela, since they resist Ice and are tricky to break past. Garde may be an issue here driving usage of even guys like Heatran. That said, the trend towards slower breakers exacerbates the momentum issue. I think Cirno's matchups are becoming more polarizing overall and idt it's as reliable, but many current teams are built in a way that only accounts for balance and ladder-type cheese/offense which mostly just manifests as gag setup shitters.
Cirno's place as a no-setup (including webs) hyper offense is pretty unique and the only other team I've managed to build that captures a similar essence is my team with Gambit Bliss + Sap Sipper Pert + Prank Amph, which I'm probably going to try to build a new iteration of sometime soon.
>What possessed you to make this team?
Which led to this beauty of a team: https://pokepast.es/91aaea9ea9997e4e
The gen 9 version is a spiritual successor although I don't think it can reach the peaks of AV Regice and sub Custap Mage.
> Sure this works on ladder, but does it work in tours?
I'm pretty sure I've only brought Cirno to tour 4 times:
- 1 Win and 1 Loss from me vs Nihilslave in BH redefined money tour
- 1 Loss in BH seasonal from me vs Ballfire
- 1 Win in OMWC finals from me vs Damflame
so the record is... neutral for me. Both times I brought Cirno and lost were because I was crashing out and decided to load something aggro to get the series over with so I figure you can get a higher WR if you only load Cirno when you're confident it's a good bring.
afaik Clas has never lost a BH game with one of my hyper offenses, so maybe you just need luck :)
> you say all of QT's teams lose to Cirno and yet you lose to QT?
Good point.
Other meta thoughts less related to Cirno:
Burning Bulwark is a stupid move and I still think it ought to be banned. Pretty much never leads to healthy interactions, easier to slot than other protect moves and shuts down choicers completely while still allowing for mindgames vs physical setup and even grabbing burns vs regen which isnt an issue for all of them but can be really devastating sometimes (e.g. burning a Ting Lu to make MG Ghostceus completely spinblock it). OP on blobs only limited by improofing issues, although at least there it is predictable enough to expect people to scout. Random Bulwark on regen Etern or randos like my Leech Seed Pixiburst Arc set can be really really toxic to deal with.
Take Heart still limits the builder but i'm coming around on it, regen + fast encore or topsy mane acts as pretty reliable counterplay so I'm not as stuck saying you need the blobs, plus Zama's big rise has made it much less frequent of an issue.
That said, Zama's rise has made the blobs much worse, which ought to make Etern and TH Arc more viable, but I'm not really seeing that rise. Missed opportunity? not sure. Zama counterplay is very limited aside from methods that punish its raw bulk decrease, Bounce Poisons are cool though Clodsire especially has a lot of use atm.
Because Zama is on 70% of teams I'm starting to think a Triple Arrows ban might be a good idea for hax reduction reasons, similar to Bright Powder. It's not exactly broken but it certainly doesn't add anything except allowing Zama to fish for hax through soft checks like Celesteela. Combat Torque para is annoying but has a lower "hax ceiling" in the sense that paralysis is more predictable than a flinch chance and a defense drop chance that are separate, and there are more ways to avoid paralysis. It also disrupts Zama's other status infliction with Mortal. Take Heart also allows it to be healed in longer games, reducing the chances of Zama eventually fishing for the low odds multiflinch / multipara.
Almost every RegenVest user has the moveslot to fit Stone Axe for more utility. The main exception being Doom Desire + Dragon Tail 
who often wants Knock Off. RegenVest users not needing to waste turns recovering also gives them more opportunities to safely set Rocks.
Magic Guard set relatively often can forgo Strength Sap in favour of a coverage move, of which Stone Axe is a viable option as it doubles as a coverage move for 
. It should be noted that this should generally not be the sole hazard setter of the team (pair with Spikes setters) due to its lack of recovery and reliance on full HP.
Relatively similar to above, Magic Guard variants often run Stone Axe to set hazards for its team, and its damage output is non-negligible coming from its attack stat and potential Life Orb boost.
As one of the few offensive Rock-types in the tier, it uses Stone Axe as a STAB on more utility based sets like Magic Guard. Wallbreaking sets generally prefer options like Mighty Cleave.
An example of a non-RegenVest Pokemon that can have the moveslot to fit a hazard-setting move, but also usually is forced out fast enough to set Spikes. It also has enough attack stat to make Stone Axe deal sizable chip.
An example of a Pokemon that can run both Stone Axe and Spikes if it has the moveslot, depending on what the team needs.
Magic Guard set is a common utility Spiker. It is fully self Imposter-proof, bulky with a hard-to-exploit typing so breakers have a harder time forcing it out, and resilient through Magic Guard. It is also an excellent user of Knock Off to remove Boots to support itself. Spikes notably is a great way for it to make progress against checks like 
, and Ice Scales Pokemon.
It has enough offensive presence, Fairy-type STAB with potential Ghost STAB gives it great neutral coverage to conserve moveslots for Spikes, and its excellent capability of running Pain Split gives it a lot of longevity. Similar to above Spikes is great at progressing against hard-to-break walls.
Regenerator sets are similar to the above where it has offensive presence and good longevity, while not benefiting much from running Stone Axe.
An example of a more defensive Spike setter, non-RegenVest variants can fit Spikes to help reduce its passivity. Imposter-proofing defensive Pokemon can be more annoying, with a non-Bounce Improof for this being Rapid Spin 
, 
, and 
. The former two, being physical breakers, appreciate the speed drop on faster physical walls like 
and 
formes, while the latter enjoys both checks like 
and a variety of potential revenge-killers slowed down so it can not only click more freely but also have more entry opportunities.
] 
[
] 
Its reasonable damage output with powerful Fighting-STABs like Combat Torque and more notably Triple Arrows make it risky to spinblock by most Steels. Combat Torque is more common but is less threatening than Triple Arrows, which can be very challenging to spinblock. 
Water isn't super effective into Steel, but its sky-high 180 SpA along with generally neutral coverage can threaten enough sufficiently, and has the bonus of doing particularly well into Primordial Sea. It should never be the primary removal option since it can always be blocked if the opponent commits to it. Mortal Spin is also used for its purposes of Poisoning switch-ins like Imposter. 
Ground can be very good into Steels if not for 
Similar to 
Anything RegenVest 
Barely viable and similar to the other Fighting-types. Its slower speed actually makes it slightly worse into some Steel-types as Thunderous Kick is less threatening than fast Triple Arrows, though the Electric-STAB allows it to annoy 
who hate Moonblast. Notably, since it always underspeeds 
It usually forgoes the Ground-STAB making it quite ineffective at actually spinning, but Mortal Spin's Poison chance is the best punish for Imposter-users since its Ground-typing blocks Nuzzle. In general the Poison-chance combined with solid Knock Off output makes it annoying to switch-into.
tend to not run Rapid Spin in favour of coverage or other utility options.
Barely viable, but otherwise similar to 
Functions similarly to 
Functions similarly to 
. This rather niche Pokemon can serve as a good Bounce user by Sapblocking against common Take Heart 
, while also denying Spikes from the common 
is a good measure of how prevalent hazards are in the meta. It is nigh mandatory on non-Magic Guard non-Offensive Pokemon weak to Rock, such as 
recovery. In general, even with good removal, 
, whose Magic Guard set can be argued as more viable than the Sheer Force alternative because of its increased ease of use and consistency, especially for a rather prediction-reliant breaker.
and 
.
, 
after a tiny bit (<5%) chip. Need a bit more chip but does >70%+ to 
has access to 100% accurate Blizzards which is not bad. The reason why Blizzard is a useful addition is because of how well it synergizes with Zap Cannon. Blizzard obviously hits Ground-types like 
