Battle Mechanics Research

[Thorhammer]

Hmm, just to remove any doubts:

LV78 Mega Charizard X (240 Attack) uses Fly vs. LV100 Aegislash (147 Defense).

If 1.2x boost, Fly should do 50-59 damage
If 1.3x boost, Fly should do 54-64 damage

First test did 56 damage. Second test did 65 damage. That's... odd. Perhaps there was a problem with my math?

((((78*2/5+2)/50)*240*90*1.3/147)+2)*0.5*0.85 = 54.8
((((78*2/5+2)/50)*240*90*1.3/147)+2)*0.5 = 64.4

Now, we could attribute this to some sort of rounding error, but there's another possible explanation:

((((78*2/5+2)/50)*240*90*1.33/147)+2)*0.5*0.85 = 56.0
((((78*2/5+2)/50)*240*90*1.33/147)+2)*0.5 = 65.9

Based on this, I believe Tough Claws has a x1.33 boost.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Smogon Calc says a 1.3x would have done 54-63 damage, so that certainly wasn't a mistake in your calcs either way.

...So I guess it should be tested whether Sheer Force is now a 33%, 50% or still a 30% boost.

 

[Thorhammer]

It's also the same as the change for Fairy Aura and Dark Aura. And it's worth noting that x1.33 is the same as an Adaptability boost. So Mega Charizard X essentially has Adaptability on Flare Blitz, Yveltal essentially has Adaptability on Dark-type moves, and Xerneas essentially has Adaptability on everything. Ultimately, calcing Tough Claws attacks with a x1.2 bonus was lowballing their power by 10%, which is quite a bit.

I'm also curious about Aerilate and its sisters. I remember some confusion about whether they were x1.3 or x1.33, and with this, it sounds like they're worth a close look to make sure.

 

[ctom42]

Ok, good to know that a more detailed calc gave a more exact number. I was just frustrated no one seemed to have tested it at all since I was pretty sure it was more than 20%. 33% makes sense as well.

 

[Linneus]

Here's an idea: Get a pokémon with Trace, catch one of those Foongus with Effect Spore, and get engaged in a double (Or triple battle) with a partner with weak contact moves. It's easier than gambling for status due to the possibility of Regenerator

Well, Trace wouldn't help me since there's no way to know WHICH one I'm tracing, and the chance of Regenerator is fairly low (I had to go through 20 Foongus before I found even one with the ability; using my Skill Swap Carbink to check each and every one). But still, if anyone with a Grass-type gets afflicted with Effect Spore, do let us know.

 

[Tase]

Testing Outrage vs. glorious Fairies.

Hide

Turn 1
Charizard switched in.
Gardevoir switched in.
Charizard used Outrage!
[lol no damage]
Gardevoir used Calm Mind!
-------
Turn 2
Gardevoir switched out.
Hydreigon switched in.
Charizard used Outrage BUT WAS NOT LOCKED IN, MY FRIEND IS DUMB
-------
Turn 3
Hydreigon switched out.
Gardevoir switched in.
Charizard used Outrage!
[lol no damage]
Charizard is confused!
-------
Turn 4
Charizard switched out.
Aegislash switched in.
Gardevoir used Calm Mind!
-------
Turn 5
Gardevoir switched out.
Abomasnow switched in.
Aegislash switched out.
Charizard switched in.
-------
Turn 6
Abomasnow switched out.
Gardevoir switched in.
Charizard used Outrage!
[lol no damage]
-------
Turn 7
Gardevoir switched out.
Abomasnow switched in.
Charizard used Roost!
-------
turn 8
Abomasnow Mega Evolved!
Charizard used Outrage!
Abomasnow used Wood Hammer!
-------
Turn 9
Abomasnow switched out.
Gardevoir switched in.
Charizard used Outrage!
[lol no damage]
[no confusion either]
-------
Turn 10
Gardevoir used Calm Mind!
Charizard used Roost!
[ragequit]

So, what I gather from this switchfest is that


1. If an immune pokémon switches in on the first or second turn, or is already in the field, the Outrage user will not be locked the next turn.
2. Outrage will inflict confusion every time it ends, regardless of an immune pokémon switching in.
3. I have no idea what happens if Outrage somehow misses. If it does, you're using Evasion and should be banned so to hell with you.
4. This game is shit.

Video proof: HADW-WWWW-WWW2-BA8Z

And yes, I know it's "lebensraum", that was a mistake on my part

I tested Outrage, Petal Dance, and Thrash over Wi-Fi (battle with a friend instead of a random match-up over Battle Spot) and got the same results. I wonder if this is a quirk with Battle Spot causing this discrepancy. I'm not sure what to think at this point.

 

[Kingclown50]

Can someone confirm a Thick Fat user with Burn Orb takes no damage? My friend said this Hariyama wasn't taking any Burn damage.

Thick Fat@Flame Orb
Fake Out/Detect/CC/EQ

 

[V4Victini]

Sheer Force is still 1.3, tested it with SF Mawile and compared the damage to a 1.333 Tough Claws. I will post details on the test when I'm not in a phone

So I was essentially just spamming one move until I got either the min roll for 1.3 or the max roll for 1.33
All Pokemon are at Level 50 (Used the Battle Institute)

Burned SF Mawile (104 Atk) using Bite against Noivern (w/e this thing's defense is with 31 IVs and 0 EVs) did 15 damage. This is possible with the min roll on 1.3 but not at all with 1.33x

 

[Punchshroom]

Word on Copycat. Copycat can no longer call Roar for use.

Riolu used Roar!
The opposing Krokorok was dragged out!
Riolu used Copycat!
But it failed!

Further testing on other moves to be done.

FUCK. MY. LIFE.

 

[GodLucifer]

was battling with one friend using lucario and on the turn lucario mega evolved he died to garchomp without making a move so has this been confirmed yet that turn order is set before mega evolution?

 

[NMcCoy]

was battling with one friend using lucario and on the turn lucario mega evolved he died to garchomp without making a move so has this been confirmed yet that turn order is set before mega evolution?

Yes it has.

 

[Bravadorado]

Yes it has.

Rather, the pokemon that is mega evolving will keep all of it's original stats on the same turn that it evolves. The speed stays the same, not the turn order. I realize that turn order is based completely on speed, but I wanted to clarify that.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

Rather, the pokemon that is mega evolving will keep all of it's original stats on the same turn that it evolves. The speed stays the same, not the turn order. I realize that turn order is based completely on speed, but I wanted to clarify that.

That's the first time I hear about this. When was it established?

 

[alphasupreme]

Questions:
1: What happens if parental bond is skill swapped?
2: Can you still mega evolve if your pokémon needs to recharge after using a move like hyper beam? (I don't think so, but we should still check.)
3:Are mega evolution stat changes immediate or do they change on the next turn?
4: If a pokémon has its stats lowered before mega evolving does this stat drop stay?
4: Can ditto transform into mega evolved pokémon and if not, what happens?
Info:
1:Pokémon amie has no affect in any form of multiplayer battle.
2:Rockslide no longer hits pokémon in the air after using moves like fly.

 

[alphasupreme]

What happens if a pokémon with color change is hit by a dual type move?

 

[Bravadorado]

That's the first time I hear about this. When was it established?

I'm not entirely sure about when it was proven, but we know it to be true. A specific post that I remember (I might be able to find it for you, but for now I will quote) states that a pokemon (I think it was Starmie) that shouldn't have outsped MegaGengar did, and that is because you do not get the mega stats until the turn after megavolving.

Questions:
1: What happens if parental bond is skill swapped?
2: Can you still mega evolve if your pokémon needs to recharge after using a move like hyper beam? (I don't think so, but we should still check.)
3:Are mega evolution stat changes immediate or do they change on the next turn?
4: If a pokémon has its stats lowered before mega evolving does this stat drop stay?
4: Can ditto transform into mega evolved pokémon and if not, what happens?
Info:
1:Pokémon amie has no affect in any form of multiplayer battle.
2:Rockslide no longer hits pokémon in the air after using moves like fly.

1. I don't know, I assume it works.
2. Yes you should be able to considering I think you can mega evolve when asleep and frozen.
3. Next turn.
4. I believe so.
5. Yes it can, and it is very dangerous. Since it can also hold an item it is essentially a better version of every single mega.

What happens if a pokémon with color change is hit by a dual type move?

It turns to the type of the dual type. For example, Freeze Dry will turn it to ice type. Freeze Dry is super effective against water types, but it is not a water type move. The same goes for Protean.

Also, next time edit your original post, rather than posting twice in a row.

 

[thelaytonmobile]

I'm not entirely sure about when it was proven, but we know it to be true. A specific post that I remember (I might be able to find it for you, but for now I will quote) states that a pokemon (I think it was Starmie) that shouldn't have outsped MegaGengar did, and that is because you do not get the mega stats until the turn after megavolving.

Actually, this was the quote I found.

It seems like turn order is set before Mega Evolution occurs.
My Aerodactyl is slower than the in-game Liepard but faster when Mega Aerodactyl. But on the turn I Mega Evolve, Liepard still goes first but then goes 2nd on every turn after.

It mentions only turn order. You are implying that moves do less damage too, which is wrong. EDIT: At least, no one noticed anything like that in the many tests they did.

 

[alphasupreme]

I'm not entirely sure about when it was proven, but we know it to be true. A specific post that I remember (I might be able to find it for you, but for now I will quote) states that a pokemon (I think it was Starmie) that shouldn't have outsped MegaGengar did, and that is because you do not get the mega stats until the turn after megavolving.

1. I don't know, I assume it works.
2. Yes you should be able to considering I think you can mega evolve when asleep and frozen.
3. Next turn.
4. I believe so.
5. Yes it can, and it is very dangerous. Since it can also hold an item it is essentially a better version of every single mega.

It turns to the type of the dual type. For example, Freeze Dry will turn it to ice type. Freeze Dry is super effective against water types, but it is not a water type move. The same goes for Protean.

Also, next time edit your original post, rather than posting twice in a row.

Sorry about the spam, I'm really new. I can assume that if ditto can copy a mega evolved pokémon then you can have 2 mega evolved pokémon in your party if you go into a double battle and use transform on your own mega evolved pokémon. This could make ditto quite the monster.

 

[Bravadorado]

It mentions only turn order. You are implying that moves do less damage too, which is wrong.

Well, I COULD be wrong. As you said, your quote only mentions turn order, it does not prove that I am wrong about the stats remaining the same.

Do you have another quote that proves all the stats change? If not then I would think that the stats stay the same until next turn, because turn order is based on speed and it makes no sense for only the speed to remain the same. It also makes no sense that the turn order is decided before megavolution because what if you were to use a priority move? That rule would force you to go slower than the opponent even if you used bullet punch on the turn you megavolved.

 

[Forsety]

Can someone confirm a Thick Fat user with Burn Orb takes no damage? My friend said this Hariyama wasn't taking any Burn damage.

This seems pretty important so I went out and gave it a test for myself, no better confirmation than seeing it for yourself anyway.

Test:
Using a Thick Fat Piloswine I had lying about and a Flame Orb I would use Protect on the first turn to activate the Flame Orb and get the burn off and another Protect on the second turn to double check. Surely enough the Flame Orb activated and I took no damage, however on the second turn 109 HP was reduced to 96HP and consequent turns I'd take 13HP damage per turn.

Conclusion:
Debunked. Thick Fat Pokemon still take Burn damage at 1/8 damage per turn, what was changed was the Flame Orb mechanic. You do not take burn damage on the turn flame Orb activates, unless my memory is out of order I believe this wasn't the case previously. Which explains why someone would think it doesn't damage Thick Fat users now.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

^Actually, Flame and Toxic Orb always worked like this(or at least since Gen V, but I'm pretty sure that was the case in IV as well).

 

[thelaytonmobile]

Well, I COULD be wrong. As you said, your quote only mentions turn order, it does not prove that I am wrong about the stats remaining the same.

Do you have another quote that proves all the stats change? If not then I would think that the stats stay the same until next turn, because turn order is based on speed and it makes no sense for only the speed to remain the same. It also makes no sense that the turn order is decided before megavolution because what if you were to use a priority move? That rule would force you to go slower than the opponent even if you used bullet punch on the turn you megavolved.

Well, having looked through the thread, I couldn't actually find anything. But the Bullet Punch would go first of course - turn order seems to be set when the moves are chosen, attack power when they hit. That's how I understand it.

 

[Bravadorado]

Well, having looked through the thread, I couldn't actually find anything. But the Bullet Punch would go first of course - turn order seems to be set when the moves are chosen, attack power when they hit. That's how I understand it.

In that case all you would have to do is megavolve before you select a move, which doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[Marty]

There seems to be a lot of confusion on how turn order works with Mega Evolution. It's no different than using something like Tailwind or activating Sand Rush in the middle of a turn.

Turn order is determined twice per turn, once after commands are chosen and once at the end of the turn to determine the order of end-of-turn effects (weather damage, Leftovers, etc). If your Speed changes during a turn, it won't affect the turn order until the end of that turn. Despite gaining all of your new stats after Mega Evolving, since Mega Evolution happens during the turn and not before the turn, your new Speed will not allow you to move before something that would otherwise be slower than you. Also because your Speed actually changed, you'd take more Gyro Ball damage that turn and less Electro Ball damage (assuming you gained Speed by Mega Evolving).

As an example, say you have Gengar VS non-Magic Guard Alakazam in a sandstorm. If Gengar Mega Evolves, it will still be slower than Alakazam that turn, but at the end of that turn it will take sandstorm damage first because its Speed is actually higher. This has been a mechanic for several years, it just became more obvious with the introduction of Mega Evolution.

 

[alphasupreme]

When your pokémon mega evolves are its current stats raised or is it given new base stats. If so, then you could baton pass your mega evolved pokémon's stats onto another pokémon allowing for dangerous combos. Or using haze could eliminate the usefulness of mega evolution outside of abilities.