Battle Tree Discussion and Records

To be honest, I consider Multi with AI being very fun in B-tree.

What it fails being fun at is the frame rate. It's UGLY and UGLY is a compliment for someone with a normal 3ds like me. I've got as far as 50 with Cynthia for the stamp, but the terrifyingly low frame rate is really hurting my will to commit :(
Aside from this, I think the biggest problem with Multis is the accessibility. In order to get a usable partner, you have to scout them in Singles first... which requires you to play Singles, thus taking away time that you could be playing Multis (it's like you have to play a different mode to even have a chance of starting this one). And everything is random, meaning that you have to actually find (and beat) a good trainer in order to scout them. People in this thread have racked up hundreds of wins looking for specific trainers and never found them.

XY did it better by letting you use your friend list as partners, and it was easier to "scout" people by adding their Friend Code (I know a few people whose trainers with Scarfed Eruption users were popular). ORAS nerfed it by limiting you to 4 preset partners, and then this game added yet another entry barrier, pushing away even more players.
Not to mention it makes it tougher to take a lot of Pokemon seriously. Every time I see a Wailord or Wishwashi barely bigger than the player character, I cringe. Pokémon Colosseum, XD, and PBR don’t get the credit they deserve. Here’s hoping Pokemon Switch falls more in line with them when it comes to models.
Don't forget the N64 Stadiums, which also sized everything to scale. I remember Lugia being floor-hoggingly gigantic.

hotdogturtle Doubles is more helpful for scouting because you know immediately who their first and second pokemon are. Scouting will not pick their third even if it was sent out after their lead fainted in a single battle. Since you have to choose to scout right away, you can make a better informed decision after doubles.
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The main potential diffe
Aside from this, I think the biggest problem with Multis is the accessibility. In order to get a usable partner, you have to scout them in Singles first... which requires you to play Singles, thus taking away time that you could be playing Multis (it's like you have to play a different mode to even have a chance of starting this one). And everything is random, meaning that you have to actually find (and beat) a good trainer in order to scout them. People in this thread have racked up hundreds of wins looking for specific trainers and never found them.
It's actually way easier to scout them in Doubles since you know the 2 Pokemon that will be used rather than having the risk of one not being the one you desired.
Most of us spam doubles so we have a healthy reserve of scouted trainers.
View attachment 90408

Streak still ongoing, now using Josh C. 's Garchomp, which has Sand Veil and Iron Head instead of Poison Jab. Same EV / item, have already got a tad of value from having the Iron Head, no sizeable difference from ability due to having always 1shot stuff before they could fight back whenever Sandstorm was up either ways.

Managed to breed a the HP Ice Charizard but it needs still to hit 100 for hypertrain (it doesn't have 31 defense and speed), and I'm still debating myself if it's worth updating it over Dragon Pulse. Notably because it lacks the KO potential on Turtonator while essentially equal damaging or outdamaging Dragon Pulse against most dragons that arent Latis or Haxorus/Drampa. (Though, things that Dpulse 2hkos are also 2hkod by HP Ice as far as my calculations went)
Welp, fucked up and lost at 142. Assumed Latios would nuke down Charizard, instead it went straight into Garchomp deleting it and ending all hopes of killing the Chandelure.

Definitely greed punished there. Will see if I decide to try again on same comp or not.

NoCheese Edit: The team of Mega Charizard Y / Typholosion+Entei / Garchomp / Toxapex (except for the Garchomp changes noted above) is detailed here.

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It's actually way easier to scout them in Doubles since you know the 2 Pokemon that will be used rather than having the risk of one not being the one you desired.
Most of us spam doubles so we have a healthy reserve of scouted trainers.
Ah, I didn't know that you could also scout in Doubles; however, I think my main point about having to play another mode in order to stand a chance in Multis still stands.
Reporting a single's streak of 163 with Dragonite/Aegislash/Chansey.

Oval table (Dragonite)
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost

Objection! (Aegislash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 1 Spe
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Shadow Ball

Chancey (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Substitute
- Minimize

I lost at 163 to Tyranitar3. I was trying to PP stall it out with Dnite/Aegislash, but I had had a few too many for the battle tree and clicked Toxic instead of King's shield to try and get it's attack down from +2, I clicked toxic. From there it swept. Perhaps in hindsight I should've just 2HKOed it with EQ, but the TTar34 lead is scary.

Some notes on my team: Fairly standard team comp. The main difference is the specially defensive aegislash with toxic. I really enjoyed how it performed, having aegi behind a substitute, even not at +6 ATk is really strong. The physical defense investment isn't in there because of lazy EVing admittedly. And also, I really just wanted to use my shiny aegislash in the tree. I'm a little disappointed the team didn't make it to 200, but I'm trying durant/Volca currently. If people want Battle Videos I can post them and here's proof of the winstreak.

Hey everyone, I’m here to speak on my ongoing streak of 200 Wins in Super Doubles with a team consisting of Pheromosa/Tapu Lele/Garchomp/Mega Metagross. I’d first like to give a shutout to Level 51 and turskain for helping influence this team with fantastic runs of their own.

I really liked the idea of Pheromosa with Sash and Protect to bait opponents and grab Beast Boosts while Tapu Lele summons Psychic Terrain to guard Pheromosa from priority attacks. I also was a fan of having a Dragon and Steel type in the back to form a F/D/S core, with Mega Salamence and Aegislash being the go-to choices. A bunch of people already have over a 300-win streak in Super Doubles with Pheromosa/Tapu Lele/Aegislash/Mega Salamence (there was one just posted as I was writing this up lol, congrats Maunzi) so I decided I wanted to switch things up a bit. Mega Metagross was my immediate choice as he has a very high attack that can also take advantage of Psychic Terrain with Zen Headbutt. Metagross also takes advantage of the new mega evolution speed mechanic greatly, having base 110 right off the bat. Finally, Metagross is my favorite Pokemon and I even bred a Shiny flawless one in my Omega Ruby so I knew I wanted to use him. For my Dragon, I originally went with a Dragon Dance Dragonite with Lum Berry. I liked the idea of having at least one member with a setup move, however on my first run with the team I rarely clicked DD. Although Dragonite is great at sponging just about any hit with Multiscale, he was a bit too weak and slow without a boost for me. The team went on a 102-win streak before losing to a Trick Room team. Although I blame the way I played the first few turns in the loss instead of the team itself, I wanted to try someone else instead of Dragonite, as he certainly seemed like the weakest member of the team. I also wanted to abuse a Z-move, which Dragonite prevented me from doing, as my Tapu Lele runs Scarf, Mosa needs Sash and Metagross needs his Mega Stone. Enter Garchomp. The land shark has been an awesome addition to the team, having great speed, bulk and power. I knew I wanted to use Groundium Z on him, as that allows him to target one enemy when using Earthquake instead of always having to Protect with Metagross and Pheromosa. Additionally, if I bring out Garchomp with Lele on the field and I need to use Earthquake, Lele is going to get hit too (again Choice Scarf set that obviously doesn’t run Protect). Additionally, having such a powerful move that always hits (barring Flying types and levitators) and ignores evasion boosts is amazing. Now that I’ve explained why I decided to go with these four, let me go a bit more into detail on their movesets:

Pheromosa @

Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Lunge
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Mixed Sash Pheromosa is a monster. With a Naughty Nature and max attack EVs, she grabs an attack boosts whenever she gets a kill, which I much preferred over a speed boost. . Even without a +Speed boosting nature, a ridiculous 151 base stat and max speed EVs make her quick enough to out pace almost everything in the Battle Tree. Since she is so frail, lowering her special defense doesn’t matter since almost any attack, resisted or not, is going to knock her down to her Sash. This also allows her to go mixed and still hit pretty damn hard on the special side. I chose Lunge as my Bug STAB for the nice attack drop on opponents. Low Kick was chosen as the reliable Fighting STAB. I decided to go with Ice Beam over a straight physical attacking Pheromosa with Poison Jab for Ices much better coverage, especially considering the high amount of Flying types the Battle Tree loves to throw out against Pheromosa. Poison Jab is almost only useful to hit Fairy Types, which this team is already well equipped to take on as I’ll get to later. Protect is so amazing for baiting opponents, especially when she is down to 1 HP. Often times both opponents will target her, allowing Tapu Lele or whoever is paired with her to get in a free hit for that turn.

Tapu Lele @

Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Fire

So after playing around with different Tapu Lele sets, I knew Choice Scarf was the way to go. First and most importantly, this allows Tapu Lele to be faster than Pheromosa. This is vital as it allows Tapu Lele to do enough that Pheromosa can clean up and get the attack boost on something, if it doesn’t just straight up OHKO something of course. The big threats that I can think of (but certainly not limited to) that the Scarf is very important for allowing Lele to OHKO or do enough for Pheromosa to clean are Latios/Latias, all three of the Swords of Justice, Azelf-3 with Focus Sash, Crobat, Salamence-3 with Yache berry and a Timid nature (but be careful double targeting because it has Protect), Garchomp-2 with Focus Sash and a Hasty Nature, Gallade-4 (Mega Gallade) and so many others. Psychic and Moonblast chosen for obvious STAB, and man do they hit hard, especially Psychic under the terrain. Shadow Ball is very important to do good damage to bulky Psychic and Ghost types such as Slowking (Mega) Slowbro, Reuniclus, and Musharna, Uxie, Cresselia, Bronzong, Dusknoir and Cofagrigus. A lot of these can set up the dangerous Trick Room as well, so having Shadow Ball usually allows Lele to get them low enough for Pheromosa to clean with Lunge. To be honest, Hidden Power Fire was clicked very rarely, but there was one game that I was up against Ferrothorn-2 with Curse, Rest and Chesto Berry that it saved me. I had managed to get in a Low Kick before Mosa went down that did decent damage after maybe one Curse or so and figured Tectonic Rage from Garchomp would do the rest. Then it used Rest and woke right back up and I got nervous. I immediately switched out my Lele (who was locked into something else), and eventually get her back in and finished the job with HP Fire.

Mega Metagross @

Ability: Tough Claws (Clear Body)
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Protect

Metagross is the Mega of the team and he’s been nothing short of fantastic. He really just has everything going for him; excellent stats, great typing, amazing coverage and not one but two useful abilities (seriously Clear Body can be very valuable against Intimidate users the turn he is sent out). Jolly nature I feel is the much-preferred nature over Adamant for out speeding as much as possible. Since I bred this in Omega Ruby, I was able to teach him tutor moves. Iron Head over Meteor Mash for the consistency, while the 30% flinch rate is pretty cool too. It’s the main way I deal with Fairy types on this team, but is also useful for hitting things like I wanted both Ice and Thunder Punch for the famous Bolt/Beam coverage. Everyone knows how useful Ice typing is offensively and there’s a reason out of the 16 move slots available for my team, two of them are for Ice coverage. It just hits so much super effectively and it’s a great backup to Pheromosa’s Ice beam if she goes down or needs to switch out. For example, Metagross is able to switch into Landorus-2 or Garchomp-3 that go for Extrasensory and Outrage respectively, sponge it up easily and OHKO right back. Or if I only have Metagross and Garchomp left and the opponent has something like a Gliscor or Zapdos, I’d be in real trouble without Ice Punch. Thunder Punch was manly chosen for bulky Water types. Things like Suicune, Primarina, Gyarados, Jellicent and even Pelipper pretty much wall Pheromosa and can eat a hit from Tapu Lele. Also very useful for Moltres and Charizard-Y who are both very dangerous and only take neutral damage from Ice Punch. Lastly, Skarmory would be a major issue for this team without Thunder Punch since I have to rely on Hidden Power Fire from Lele, which I really don’t like to lock myself into unless I absolutely have to, or Low Kick from Pheromsa that doesn’t do too much without a boost. It straight up walls Garchomp as well. For the last slot, I originally had Zen Headbutt to abuse the Physic Terrain boost, which combined with STAB + Tough Claws off a 145 attack, it hit like a truck. However when I dropped Dragonite in favor of Garchomp, I knew I needed to drop something for Protect in order to avoid being hit by Earthquake when not using Tectonic Rage. It obviously wasn’t going to be Iron Head, so I had to choose between Thunder Punch, Ice Punch and Zen Headbutt. Nothing else on my team has Electric coverage so I wanted to keep that, since Lele has Psychic coverage and Mosa has Ice Beam. It was decided that although Zen Headbutt offers more power, Ice Punch has way better coverage and can’t miss like Zen Headbutt (I really like to stay away from imperfect accurate moves, the Battle Tree already has enough hax with Minimize and Bright Powder etc.). There’s also the fact that Pheromosa generally dies much more than Tapu Lele, so that backup Ice move is clutch. Losing Zen Headbutt really hasn’t been an issue at all and Protect has come in handy for much more than just guarding Metagross from my own Garchomp’s Earthquake, whether that be stalling out turns of Trick Room or baiting enemy attacks.

Garchomp @

Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab
- Protect

Last we have Garchomp, who fit perfectly onto this team right away, after one small change. Originally I had Swords Dance over Poison Jab, but I never found myself needing to use it. Poison Jab is just another way for this team to deal with Fairies other than just relying on Metagross, and makes it so this set isn’t completely walled by things like Togekiss, Whimsicott and Shiinotic. One major advantage Garchomp has over other popular Dragons is that it isn’t a Flying type like Mega Salamence or Dragonite or a Levitator like Hydreigon. This is critical in that Psychic Terrain doesn’t protect you from priority if you’re off the ground, leaving the others vulnerable to things like Ice Shard or Fake-Out. I really like having the option of using Earthquake to hit both opponents or firing off a nuke on one of them, which doesn’t force me to Protect own Pokemon. This is key if Pheromosa goes down and I need to bring in Garchomp on something Metagross can’t touch like Darmanitan. Since I can’t Protect with my Tapu Lele or switch in Metagross, the single-targeting Tectonic Rage is fantastic. So far in 200 battles, I’ve never been in this situation more than once a battle. As mentioned earlier, having a Pokemon in the back with a move that will never miss, especially one with such power, eases a ton of pressure against enemies with Bright Powder or Minimize (I’m looking at you Blissey-4 with Chople Berry for Mosa’s Low Kick, Minimize, Mud Bomb, Toxic and Soft-Boil). Dragon Claw is definitely preferred in my opinion for being able to choose the target enemy you’re hitting and not being locked into a move. These can both certainly be a major deciding factor in winning or losing a streak, and the power difference between it and Outrage hasn’t been a problem at all. Finally, having a Pokemon immune to electric attacks such as Thunder Wave and Thunder is just another reason Garchomp is a perfect fit for this team.

The biggest threats to this team are pretty much leads that can eat any two hits from Lele and Mosa first turn and do something dangerous other than just hitting Pheromosa down to its Sash. Examples include using a boosting move, setting up Trick Room or using a status move, potentially making Lele or Mosa dead weight. Other problems include things that can get off a hit before both Lele and Mosa, whether it be from a Choice Scarf, Quick Claw etc.

-Trick Room-

Trick Room is a major threat to this team, and the one that’s given me the most close calls, but somehow I always found a way out of it. If the opponent leads with anything that has a set with Trick Room, I will always double target them. Unfortunately there are quite a few things that can eat any two attacks from Tapu Lele and Pheromosa and get up the Trick Room such as Dusknoir, Cofagrigus, Cabrink, Aromatisse and Jellicent. In this case, I get as much damage off on them as possible and then either try and bait them with Pheromosa so Tapu Lele can get off another hit, or if Tapu Lele goes down or I find a way to switch her out, I’ll double protect every other turn to waste away the TR time and hopefully get rid of the Trick Room User the turn it disappears before they have a chance to set it up.


Volc dangerous as he can live any two hits from both Tapu Lele and Pheromosa turn one and set up a Quiver Danceor fire away a Heat Wave to knock Mosa down to her Sash (or even kill with a burn) while also damaging Lele. Again since she lives any two hits and Volcarona-2 has Protect, I advise not double targeting first turn. Generally I will switch Pheromosa to Garchomp and hit Voclarona with a Psychic from Lele, which does decent damage. From there I’ll go right for Tectonic Rage if a second Psychic doesn’t finish the job, for instance if Volcarona went for QD turn one. This will also allow me to preserve Pheromosa and her Sash for later.

-Rotom Forms-

The Rotom forms are truly a pain in the ass, besides Rotom Mow which Pheromosa can take care of, and Rotom Fan which can be taken out with a combination of Psychic and Ice Beam. However Rotom Heat, Wash and Frost (Low Kick does absolutely nothing to Frost due to Rotom’s low weight) can spam status moves such as Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray and Will-O-Wisp or set up Screens depending on which set they are. Some carry Sitrus berries which make them even harder to take down. Additionally, Rotom can also hit pretty hard with moves like Hydro Pump, Overheat, Blizzard, Thunderbolt, Dark Pulse and Hex (when statused). Really such a pain to play around, especially since they have Levitate and I can’t Tectonic Rage with Garchomp. I’ll normally either target them with Lele if I can OHKO the other enemy straight up with Pheromosa and get the attack boost, or double target the other enemy if Mosa needs prior damage to finish them off get the boost. I then hope Rotom decided to go for an attacking move which is almost always on Pheromosa, live with the Sash and finish them off next turn. Thunder Wave on either or WoW on Mosa is pretty much the worst-case scenario, but even if those are the case I’m usually able to just revenge kill with Garchomp. Bottom line they’re annoying but generally will either status something or take down Pheromosa before being revenged.


I really just don’t like seeing this thing. While it does die from a combination of Psychic and Lunge, it outspeeds Pheromosa which always allows it to get off a move, and there’s a ton of annoying things it can do. Between all four sets, there are a bunch of dangerous moves it can use such as Explode, Swagger, Thunder Wave, Light Screen, Mirror Coat which will take out Lele and Rain Dance (Electrode-4 with Rain Dance also has Damp Rock) to set up Swift Swimmers in the back like Kingdra and Mega Swampert for eight turns. It can also use Thunder, which always seems to paralyze something when it hits. Lastly, Electrode-2 & 3 run Protect, which can make you think twice about double targeting. Like Rotom it’s annoying af but generally won’t do much more than statusing something and possibly allowing its teammate to take out Pheromosa if they both decide to target her before going down. You can Protect with Phermosa first turn hoping Eletrode targets her, but if it goes for something like Thunder Wave, Swagger or Mirror Coat on Lele, you can really fuck yourself, so I wouldn’t recommend it.

-Minor Threats-

Those are all of the major threats that I can think of. There are a few other minor threats I’ve come across that are much easier to handle than the above Incineroar-4 with Quick Claw has gone right for the Flare Blitz on Pheromosa every single time. Unless the other enemy is faster than Pheromosa which is very rare, Mosa just finishes off Incineroar with Low Kick, but can go down the same turn if the Lele doesn’t take out the other enemy and they target Mosa with an attacking move. Manectric-4 runs Timid with a Choice Scarf which outspeeds Lele and Mosa, but has gone for Overheat on Pheromosa everytime I’ve come across it. There are a few ways to handle it depending on the other enemy partner. If you’re not too scared of the other enemy, you can Protect with Mosa turn one to bait Manectric and attack it with Lele. If the other enemy is a potential problem you can double target the other enemy and let Manectric hit you down to your Sash (and pray no burn), Protect turn two and bait the second overheat and finish Manectric off with Lele. If turn two the third enemy you once again need Lele to go after, switch Pheromosa to Garchmp as Overheat shouldn’t be doing shit at -1 anyway. Again just pray for no Burn. Zapdos-2 with Bright Powder can be a real pain if Psychic or Ice Beam misses and it starts getting up Double Team. This did happen to me where I missed Psychic but hit Ice Beam. Luckily turn two I hit my next Psychic and took it out. Alolan Ninetales-1 can be a problem as Hail takes away Pheromosa’s Sash and Blizzard is annoying and can’t miss, Aurora Veil is scary and it has Hypnosis. Luckily I have only faced it once where I switched out Mosa for Metagross as it went for Hypnosis and missed, and I OHKOed it with Iron Head next turn. Lastly, if you see a Typhlosion, just assume it’s the third set with Choice Scarf and Eruption and immediately target it with Lele, don’t fuck around with that thing.

So if you made it to this point in my post that’s awesome and I greatly appreciate it because I made this way longer than it should have been. Any suggestions are very welcome, and I’d love to answer any questions about the team. Unfortunately I only saved 4 videos from the streak, two of which were 4-0s against teams full of legendries without losing a hit point, another was the same thing without losing any HP but against Wally and the last was battle 200 against Cynthia. The problem is that they don’t Metagross or Garchomp at all and its just Pheromosa and Tapu Lele fucking shit up. Truthfully when going for the streak, I rarely won a battle using Metagross and Garchomp and thought “I better save this replay for when I hit a big streak and can show off how the team operates”. I just wanted to get through the battles quick and not jinx myself thinking like that, but I promise once I decide to go back and continue the streak I’ll do my best to get some better replays. I do however still have them saved if needed as additional proof of my streak since I’m seeing more and more people on here lie about their own run which is pretty upsetting. I will also come back and edit this post to provide a QR rental team for anyone to try out once I get my Pheromosa to level 100 and bottle cap her defenses because I’m a perfectionist like that and if I’m giving out a team I want it to be flawless. Again, thank you all so much for reading :)

So since we are less than two weeks from USUM, I decided to give the Battle tree another shot. It has been months since I reached the 200 win mark and haven't touched it since then, focusing more on breeding projects (just surpassed 12,000 eggs in my Moon copy!). Unfortunately I did not last very long after getting back into this streak. A lack of motivation after achieving my goal of 200 wins using my Mega Metagross, months of not touching the Battle Tree as well as the new games coming so soon and this game coming to "a close" all lead to me losing pretty quickly. Regardless, I am very proud of this team and am here to announce my streak officially coming to an end at 228 wins!

Unfortunately I dont have the replay infront of me which happened about a week or two ago, but it was a lead Mow rotom and skarmory, with Bronzong and Mega Metagross (how ironic) in the back. I don't remember every turn exactly, but basically the Motom Row went down turn one, Bronzong came in. Skarmory and Bronzong are both already pretty hard to deal with for my team, but the thing that screwed me was the Bronzong having Quick Claw. Skarmory was also Scarfed (using Brave Bird) and I found that out the same turn Quick Claw activated and they both targeted my Garchomp, taking him out before I could get an attack off. Losing Garchomp was huge once I learned his last was a Mega Metagross and that Continental Crush would've been the wincon. Later on it came down to my Tapu Lele and Mega Metagross vs Bronzong and Mega Metagross. I double attack the opposing Mega Metagross using Shadow Ball and Thunder Punch and take him out which was great. Bronzong went for Earthquake which did about half to Metagross due to Lele still being alive. So I'm thinking I can still win this with a combination of Shadow Ball and Thunder Punch. But then, of course, next turn Quick Claw activates and he uses Gyro Ball on Tapu Lele taking her out. Thunder Punch does about 45%. It didn't seem like another TP was gonna do it, and his next Earthquake was most likely going to take me out. I decided to go for Iron Head and go for the flinch, which combined with one TP would be able to do it. I click Iron Head, Quick Claw does not activate, but unfortunately I don't get the flinch and his Earthquake finishes me off. Some thing I would've done differently and not having Garchomp for Metagross forcing me to double attack him and allowing Bronzong to deal out so much damage got me. A bad match up against three steel types all neutral to Pheromosa's Low Kick, Quick Claw Bronzong with Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Scarf Skarmory just was a terrible match up for me but what a run it was. Still didn't finish up getting Pheromosa to level 100 to use a bottle cap and tbh I wanted to breed a Shiny Garchomp when creating the rental team to give out. With USUM coming up, hopefully I can shiny Hunt Pheromosa and Tapu Lele and my rental team will be fully shiny and perfect. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this and I'm very excited to give the Battle Tree another run with this team in USUM! :)
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Nice! I'm over 13000 eggs on my sun cart, nice to see I'm not the only madman hatching that many eggs.
It's a lifestyle haha. I love my shinies and more importantly I like being able to actually use them for things like the Battle Tree or battling in general. Yes, bottle caps have made other methods viable in getting competitive shinies but hatching eggs is still the best chance you have of hatching a flawless Mon and I just can't stop lol. Good luck to you on future eggs :)
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It's a lifestyle haha. I love my shinies and more importantly I like being able to actually use them for things like the Battle Tree or battling in general. Yes, bottle caps have made other methods viable in getting competitive shinies but hatching eggs is still the best chance you have of hatching a flawless Mon and I just can't stop lol. Good luck to you on future eggs :)
You too man! From last count I've bred about 30 shinies, few more planned and a few I have to do again for use in VGC 2018 (and for different natures on some of the best shinies like Aegislash).
Has anyone make it further than 100 wins in Doubles with a Trick Room team? I find this kind of team put you at the mercy of hax and surprise matchups.
There's a few TR comps in the streak list (I myself made it to 99 before giving up). ReptoAbysmal is our most dedicated TR runner if you have specific questions.

I give you a TLDR though: if you aren't running a Fake out + setter lead, and said lead isnt Hariyama + Oranguru or at most Aromatisse, you are asking for problems. :P
There's a few TR comps in the streak list (I myself made it to 99 before giving up). ReptoAbysmal is our most dedicated TR runner if you have specific questions.

I give you a TLDR though: if you aren't running a Fake out + setter lead, and said lead isnt Hariyama + Oranguru or at most Aromatisse, you are asking for problems. :P
Does Fake Out work if Instructed on Turn 2? Just curious.
Which has lead to wasted turns from yours truly, now that you mention it, heh. Twice Mega Ampharos lead with Confuse Ray after I made its partner flinch, and attempting to CC the next turn failed due to confusion. Instruct works but also fails because, yeah, turn 2.

Anyway, Oranguru has the benefit of flinch immunity and excellent offensive synergy, and Dark/Bug attacks are either more scarce or less likely to OHKO from their more prominent users (compared to Steel and Poison) so it has some unique edges over Aromatisse. Everyone that comes to mind used it for their TR team with nothing to complain about.

If you're willing to wait a little while, I'm fairly confident we'll get the HA starter pokemon very soon, and you'll want to try Incineroar with both the flinching and Intimidate. I'll worry about the drop in power compared to Guts CC once we have the event :P
For what it's worth, I'm at ~160 wins with a doubles team. Streak is ongoing, but I've been focusing on singles atm. Here's the team

Aron @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Sleep Talk

Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Night Shade
- Brick Break
- Foresight

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Protect

Muk-Alola @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 16 Def / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Protect
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
is this a good charizard to use?
Moves: Aerial Ace, Flare Blitz, Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw
EV: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4-6 HP (built for mega charizard X)
current hold item Red Card (thought about switching to Quick Claw)
don't remember Nature off hand but I do believe that it increases Attack and Decreases Special Attack
Pretty much not. Without Mega (and to several extends, even with mega), Charizard gets mediocre pretty fast. Too low speed tier to reliably setup, too mediocre typing considering the plethora of fast rock and electric types on tree.
Well, I've turned back to Doubles lately, and I'm here to report a streak of 78 wins in Super Doubles.


Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 25 SpA
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut
- Superpower
- Protect

Non-Mega: 141/182/80/82/80/139
Mega: 141/202/80/118/80/183

Not only does Mega Absol look amazing, it can hit pretty hard too. Knock Off helps remove any items, does really good damage, and helps remove Ghost types that otherwise threaten Tapu Lele. Psycho Cut acts like a second STAB move when under terrain, and does just a little bit more than what Knock Off would do without an item on the opponent. Superpower helps break down Steel types that can wall out Tapu Lele. Rarely used though, since the Attack drop can be pretty annoying at the beginning. Protect is really obvious with Absol's fraility and just stalling out things like Trick Room.

Jolly is the nature of choice to be as fast as possible, and the EV spread is a simple one just to maximize damage and speed. Nothing too special really.

Magic Bounce is really nice after Absol Mega Evolves. It essentially makes Absol immune to any sort of status. There seems to be a weird thing with the AI not recognizing Magic Bounce though, something I'll cover when I get to the replays.

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 25 HP / 0 Atk / 25 Def
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball


Good old Tapu Lele, one of my most used Pokemon in the Battle Tree. Psychic is STAB with Psychic Terrain, and Moonblast is an alternate STAB, mainly for opposing Dragon and Dark types. Dazzling Gleam for a spread move, which often chips things enough to where Absol can take them out. Shadow Ball is used for coverage and to hit opposing Psychics if absolutely needed.

Modest nature and 236 Speed EVs with a Scarf hits an empty speed tier, and max Special Attack to do the most damage. Everything else is just spread out for a tiny bit of bulk to make the most of the EVs. Spread is just a slight modification of Josh C.'s Tapu Lele on Sharkanine.

Excadrill @ Groundium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 20 SpA
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Protect


The Z-Move user of the team and an Electric immunity for Mantine and any Thunder Waves. Earthquake and Iron Head are obvious STABs, dealing with opposing Fairy and Steel types. When Z-powered, Tectonic Rage helps give me a one time nuke to use without hitting my partner, though it is rarely needed to be used instantly. Rock Slide, while rarely used, helps against any opposing Flying types if absolutely needed. Protect is used to stall Trick Room and just take up turns in general when needed.

EV spread is again relatively basic, just to hit fast and hit hard. Mold Breaker makes Earthquake and Tectonic Rage even better, ignoring Levitate, Sturdy, and Solid Rock, among other annoying abilities. Excadrill is by no means the best Ground type ever, but it's typing fits it in pretty well, ignoring it's somewhat lower speed.

Mantine @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 148 Def / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 18 Atk
- Scald
- Helping Hand
- Tailwind
- Wide Guard


The general team supporter and switch-in for a lot of different things. Scald is just to not be Taunt bait and to help break Focus Sashes if ever needed. Helping Hand makes any move from the rest of the team much more powerful, supporting spread moves or just solidifying a KO. Tailwind seemed kinda useless at first, but being able to make Excadrill's speed match with the rest of the team or just ignore Speed drops for a few turns is really helpful. Wide Guard helps block spread moves that can otherwise be annoying and potentially disastrous.

Since most of Mantine's weaknesses are specially based, a Calm nature is used along with max HP and a decent amount of investment to help it survive various Electric moves. The remaining EVs go into Defense to help improve it's physical bulk more. With it's relatively massive bulk, an Aguav Berry is the item of choice to quickly bring Mantine back to a health range that helps it take an extra move or two. Water Absorb gives Mantine an extra immunity and lets it switch into things for Excadrill, which gives a bonus of healing some health back.


Trick Room: The team plays extremely quickly and relies a lot on Speed, so taking that away can cripple the team quite a bit. How I deal with it varies based on the Trick Room setter, but if I can't OHKO it with Absol and/or Tapu Lele, or there are two Trick Room setters, then I just hope to stall it out with switching and Protect.

Alakazam3: One of the Pokemon that gives me the biggest trouble. Outspeeds my whole team, and nothing I have can OHKO it without being OHKO'd in return. My best bet is to just hope that Tapu Lele can 2HKO it while taking minimal damage, or getting Tailwind up so something can OHKO it.

There are certainly other threats. I just haven't played the team far enough to see them, but I did run into these two things several times on this run.

Team Problems:

At the moment, I don't see any major flaws that require massive changes, like changing a whole Pokemon. The main reason for my loss is my fault, targeting the wrong thing at the wrong time. You could argue that there was a tiny bit of hax involved, but that could have been avoided entirely. I'll cover this more when I get to that battle.


Battle 50: 6FPG-WWWW-WWW9-Y3PL
Battle Legend Blue (Alakazam3 / Rhyperior4 / Machamp34 / Pidgeot3)

First time I've faced an Alakazam. Dealing with that got mildly annoying, but once Alakazam went down, it finished up relatively easily. Also was my first Blue battle in quite a while, I haven't been able to get this far lately in Doubles.

Battle 75: JSTG-WWWW-WWW9-Y3PF
Black Belt Boris (Rhyperior3 / Aggron4 / Virizion2 / Regigigas1)

Aggron can get really annoying for Tapu Lele, and Absol can't really break through it either. A potential Rhyperior3 also means I can't just use Absol to take it out, as I risk losing Absol. A couple switches and a weird Magic Bounce interaction makes it easier, as it allows me to ignore Aggron for the most part and deal with the other side, then nuke Aggron to finish it off.

As seen in this battle, the opposing Aggron continuously uses Thunder Wave into Absol, who has Magic Bounce and thus is essentially immune to it. This happened several other times in this streak, at least 3 times I know for sure, all of which I saved the battle for. Seems to be something similar to how the AI reacts to Misty Terrain, but I'm not sure.

Battle 79: XP3G-WWWW-WWW9-Y3P5 (Loss)
Golfer Susanna (Tentacruel4 / Slaking3 / Zapdos3 / Salamence4)

A mistarget from the beginning, I'd say. Seeing the wrong Pokemon as the threat, I decide that a potential Choice Band Slaking is fine to leave around, going after Tentacruel instead, who could have had a Focus Sash. It doesn't, but Slaking takes out Tapu Lele in return, and Absol has it's Protect wasted from a prediction. The battle goes pretty downhill from there, since I have no good way to hit Salamence and it outspeeds me. I unfortunately miss a Rock Slide there, which may have cost me the game, but I don't believe it would have mattered, as a Zapdos in the back would be pretty annoying to handle with just Excadrill.

If I just double targeted Slaking right from the beginning, I should have won that. Absol and Tapu Lele would theoretically be able to deal with anything in the back, and if not, they would be crippled enough to where the back can take them on. Or even if the Rock Slide connected, I may have needed to take one less Crunch, thus not lowering my Defense and having just over half health on Excadrill, which should have been enough health for it to go down in 3 hits, assuming Rock Slide connected.

Final Thoughts:

I really like the concept of the team, and getting lesser used Pokemon out there, like Absol and Mantine, makes me happy that it actually functions relatively well. Very glad I didn't give up on the team immediately when I saw it lose a few times under 40 battles. I'll try another run after this post goes up, so some sort of update should come around.
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My streak ended at 143. I've been rotating between Team #1 and Team #2

Turn 1: Gengar and Staraptor vs Heatran and Entei. Heatran's and Entei's Attack fell.
Staraptor used Close Combat on Heatran, Heatran lost 95% heath, Staraptor's Defense and Special Defense fell.
Gengar used Shadow Ball on Entei, Entei lost 52% health, Entei's Special Defense fell.
Entei used Overheat on Starapor. Staraptor fainted. Entei's Special Attack harshly fell.
Heatran used Magma Storm on Gengar. Gengar lost 99% health. Gengar was trapped by magma.
Gengar was hurt by magma, Gengar fainted.

Turn 2: Metagross and Swampert vs Heatran and Entei.
Metagross used Bullet Punch on Heatran, Heatran fainted.
Entei used Overheat on Metagross, Metagross lost 83% of its health.
Swampert used Earth Power on Entei. Entei ate Shuca Berry. Entei fainted.

Turn 3: Metagross and Swampert vs Moltres and Medicham.
Metagross used Bullet Punch on Medicham, Medicham lost 60% health.
Medicham used Drain Punch on Metagross. Metagross fainted, Medicham recovered 12% health.
Moltres used Overheat on Swampert. It's a critical hit! Swampert lost 67% health.
Swampert used Waterfall on Moltres. Moltres fainted. Moltres' Special Attack harshly fell.

Turn 4: Swampert vs Medicham.
Medicham used Drain Punch on Swampert. Swampert fainted. Medicham recovered 20% health.


I'll be having fun playing with Ubers next.
Well into the 600s, a seemingly innocuous Latios3 lead occured and I made several minor mistakes when pp stalling Draco meteor. 5 turns and two SpDef drops on Gliscor later, it turned into the closest battle I've had this entire streak. I literally spent a half hour trying to figure out what I could do to salvage the battle, and, well, it speaks for itself.


What went through my mind after Download Porygon-Z was sent out:
"Okay, if this is set 4, Gliscor dies to Breakneck Blitz if I leave it in, but Mence has a good chance to OHKO it and if it doesn't I lose anyway.
"If this is set 3, I'm golden. All I need to do is get prior damage onto it then Mence and Suicune can clean up.
"Given that Gengar3 was sent out on Suicune earlier in the battle and that this was sent out instead of Latios against Gliscor, this is almost certainly set 3. Let's assume it's set 3 because if it's set 4 then I have to risk a damage roll and can't do anything about it.
"EQ will give me the prior damage I need, so let's use that."

What went through my mind after Porygon-Z was switched out to Latios immediately after:
"okay let's protect at least to get some hp and hope it uses energy ball"
"shit, it used psychic"
"cune is in 2hko range, mence is in ko range so i can't switch in either but gliscor dies if i leave it in"
"this is very likely a loss but there's gotta be something I can do to increase the odds from 'hope mence gets a high roll(3/16)'"
"i could sac mence and cune to reset drops with gliscor and get 2 turns of ph but i can't stall out all of psychic(latios), ice beam, psychic(p-z) and energy ball with what PP I have left"
"i could go for a double protect to do the same without having to sac both so that I can have mence alive for energy ball"
"maybe i could do something with leaving cune to deal the finishing blow on latios"
"nah then it gets destroyed by p-z after"
"double protect looks like the best strat possible since if it fails i can fall back on the high roll with mence strat for around 40% chance of success"
"there's gotta be something I can do with the double sac strat, let's go over the scenario again"
"latios has 9 pp left on psychic, cune is in 2hko range, gliscor may not be healthy enough to sub if latios gets a high roll"
"the strat fails anyway if gliscor gets crit"
"let's go over how pp is used if i do the strat, after saccing cune 5 pp is used up. after the mence sac 7 pp is used up. the last psychic is used on one of my protects. even if gliscor gets hit with a high roll it'll have enough hp for a sub on the switch after latios runs out of psychics."
"hey, if i have enough HP for a sub, then why do i even have to take the risk of my first sub [on the 9th psychic] being a dud? why don't i just use toxic on latios and finish p-z off with earthquakes when i have a sub"
"hey this actually gives me like a 80% win chance, let's do this"

Battles like these are why you keep your cool in close situations. I went from an unrealistic 3/16 chance to a very favorable ~80% simply by assessing the situation before clicking a move (not doing that is what got me in to this mess in the first place). Count PP in advance if you know you might have to stall something out. Above all, don't completely ignore strategies you considered initially but felt had problems.
Well a day after that, I lost in the most pitiful way possible. Posting a completed streak of 673 wins.
Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

I'm not sure what I can say for this other than a direct quote from GG Unit: "This is not a 'Dragon Dance once or twice then sweep' mon. If you want that or are wondering how this beats Rocks or Steels, use Dragonite instead." Usually when you decide to set Mence up, you're aiming for a sweep, and you want to go all the way, or at least as much as feasible. There is a lot you want to set Salamence up against: Non-Rock type physical attackers, anything with a status-inducing move that can't OHKO you, weak Special attackers, Draco Meteor/Overheat/Leaf Storm users (although they may need to be coaxed into using that move). Half the time I can just stay in and set up on their lead, subbing when necessary. In spite of Mence's sweeping capability, it is the mon you will be sacrificing a lot of the time if you can't avoid losing a mon. The EVs outspeed Haxorus non-mega, Salazzle after mega evolving, and outspeed +1 Tyranitar3 at +0 after Mega evolving, while giving Downloaders an Attack boost.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 13 SpA (Hyper Trained)
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest

This Suicune may have Calm Mind, but make no mistake: It is a PP staller first and a sweeper second. Scald's burn chance is not something you want to rely on either. It can (and probably will) fail you at the most crucial times. Suicune is my only Ice resist, and is thus the most valuable member of the team. Never leave it in to get killed by a potential Sheer Cold, even if it means that you'll lose Salamence in the process. I say that Suicune is not a sweeper, but at +6 you'll be able to take on the remaining 2 foes. Just don't leave it in to potentially get crit by Thunder and faint with a mystery mon left in the back. The EVs were originally meant to outspeed the Maison's Garchomp4 at -1 while surviving a +2 crit Earthquake from the same Mon, and I left them as is. The speed outspeeds the Tree's Garchomp4, meaning that you won't have to take a Sand-boosted Earthquake for half your health if it comes in as the second mon.

Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 15 SpA
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic

Unlike Suicune, this juggernaut doesn't try to hide what it does. It can PP stall nearly any move by itself. While it is best used in conjunction with Suicune to stall out certain move combos from faster Pokemon (Ice Beam/Thunderbolt from Starmie4, for example), it can usually do the same by itself, which helps with keeping Suicune's health high. Often stalling an Ice move out of all its PP is all Salamence needs to find a setup opportunity. However, should you be in a pinch against the lead, you can attempt a Gliscor sweep(which consists of PP stalling their lead until it gives you an opportunity to finish it off with a sub up, then Toxic stalling their backups). As Gliscor shares a 4x Ice weakness with Salamence, you would think it contributes less to the team's defensive synergy than something like Chansey. However, Gliscor provokes leads into using their Ice moves first, leading to less PP stalling required for Mence to set up, and thus, faster battles.

WFTW WWWW WWW9 JKFG Battle 674 vs Ignacio (Latias4/Terrakion3/Tornadus4)
I hate everything I did in this battle. I was indecisive with my strat against Latias4, which I replayed several times. I went to Suicune against Terrakion, thinking that Gliscor could get flinched out and not 2HKO. If I either fully commit to setting up against Latias4 or simply play it safe and go for a 2HKO, the battle is a cakewalk. Instead, I got this well-deserved loss to 3 mons that aren't even on my threatlist.

Speaking of the threatlist, here it is.

Metagross4 is perhaps the single most threatening foe this team can face, and unlike most threats, it's even more deadly as a backup. It can get Meteor Mash attack boosts, crit/flinches on Suicune, and it has Clear Body to block Intimidate before it goes mega. This mon is the reason why, if you can't set Mence up to at least +2, you will want to keep it non-mega if possible. YE6W WWWW WWW9 BREB is an example of what happens when Mega Metagross4 gets an attack boost on the first turn. Watch out for Colress, because he has a 1/7 chance of bringing Clear Body Metagross4 every time you fight him, along with other tricky foes, like the Porygons.

Salamence4, like Metagross4, is another extremely threatening Mega. While its attacks don't have nasty secondary effects, it does have Intimidate and outspeeds my own Mega Salamence. Unlike Metagross4, its main attack is too dangerous to consider setting Suicune up on. See JJGG WWWW WWW9 BREF for the strategy I came up with to minimize damage against Salamence4 leads. (Only 7 battles after the previous video)

Kommo-o, when all four sets can appear, is threatening because no play is completely safe. Return gets you OHKOed by set 1 Counter, switch to Suicune is risky because of set 2's Dragon Dance, and Set 3 OHKOes Mence through sub. Of these, switching to Suicune is the play I like the most.

Noivern34 can have Infiltrator, making a lot of actions against it risky. The safest play is to have Gliscor Toxic stall it, but I forget exactly what actions to take and don't have a battle video saved of it. Just don't use Sub unless it frisks you.

Porygon-Z4 hits really hard with Breakneck Blitz, and cannot be reliably OHKOed. It is too risky to set Suicune up on it. The best play is to go for a non-mega sub to bait the Z-move, and only then go to Suicune.

Other threats include Dragonite3 (hits really hard and cannot be safely intimidate cycled), Gyarados34 after finishing something off with an unsubbed Gliscor, Tyranitar2 (unpredictable, and cannot be distinguished from Tyranitar3 until it's at +2 speed), and some other stuff that only needs crits to beat Suicune. Sheer Cold users aren't as much of a problem since you can sac Mence to PP stall them with Gliscor.

I'm satisfied with this streak for now, since it hit two of the four goals I set (and the other two are so far ahead that it'd be a huge stretch for this team to reach them). Additionally, it's a nice long streak to end the Sun/Moon Tree leaderboards on. But I won't leave this to rest, and I will be back for more after the release of USM.

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