Has anyone tried something like a FEAR mon + focus sashed shedinja w/ protect, shadow sneak? Seems kinda dumb but also workable at the same time.
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Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
There's too much weather, priority, you name it. Shedinja has fallen a long way from gen 3. FEAR is still useful, though it's also fallen since last gen. However, what with the AI often wasting their Z-moves on attacks that would have OHKOd anyway, the downside of those nukes hitting through Protect is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the nukes aren't hitting the rest of your team. Losing your expendable FEAR to a Z-move is the more preferable outcome.
I've only done the required breeding, so I haven't formally tested it yet (waiting for triples to be a thing) but Togedemaru accomplishes everything Aron did last gen (save for being a Sunny Day user) and has a few more tools at its disposal.
I've only done the required breeding, so I haven't formally tested it yet (waiting for triples to be a thing) but Togedemaru accomplishes everything Aron did last gen (save for being a Sunny Day user) and has a few more tools at its disposal.
thank you both for all the help! I really think this will make things a lot easier for me. I'll definitely give these changes a shot! also quoting just to have these all in one place where i can check back later!
Also quick question, what should i replace on Aegislash for wide guard?
Aegislash doubles setup is often pretty standard, King Shield, Wide Guard, generally fill with double special stabs, flash cannon + shadow sneak, or you can go shadow sneak + sacred sword if you rather hit phisical side and defensive setuppers but that really leaves you open to intimidaters and burns.
Flash Cannon and Shadow *Ball*, I think you mean?
No, that was intended as a second option, if he for some reason rather have the priority than the special stab.
Back after a long break with a new team. I'm currently at a streak of 50 so I'm quite happy with it. I partially used it in a previous streak which ended at 53 due to bad hax and poor plays on my part. I don't count that streak though as I started using the team at battle 27 so it was technically only 26 battles so 50 is this team's current longest. No videos yet as I haven't gotten far enough to be leader board eligible or really had anything worth saving excluding the 2 battles against Blue but I always save boss battles anyway.
Overall I'm having a blast with this team. Makes me wish I'd tried FEAR before now.
Togedemaru (エミー Amy, F) @ Berry Juice
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sturdy
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/31
EVs: None
Moves:
- Fake Out
- Encore
- Spiky Shield
- Endeavor
My left hand lead. FEAR Togedemaru. I've never used a FEAR Pokemon before but wanted to give it a try. Togedemaru over Aron due to a few moves it can get that Aron can't, namely Spiky Shield, Encore and Fake Out. Fake Out for ensuring both my Pokemon survive and get Trick Room up the first turn outside of crits or flinching which has so far only happened once in 70+ battles, Spiky Shield over Protect because it does the exact same thing with the extra damage bonus against physical attackers. Encore is to lock Pokemon into useless moves or to stop them attacking completely with Aromatisse's Disable (I commonly do this with Ghost types which Togedemaru obviously can't touch). No EVs because it's a FEAR Pokemon but flawless IVs because I'm the sort of person who has to have perfect IV Pokemon. Nicknamed after Amy Rose from the Sonic the Hedgehog series.
Aromatisse (ユガ Yuga, M) @ Lum Berry
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Aroma Veil
IVs: 31/X/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252/0/77/0/181/0
Moves:
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Trick Room
- Disable
My right hand lead. My choice of Trick Room setter, chosen because of his ability Aroma Veil which blocks Taunt, Cursed Body and other annoying statuses which would otherwise prevent me setting up Trick Room. So far I've only failed to get Trick Room up due to Fake Out flinching and one unlucky Iron Head flinch. Protect and Trick Room are obvious while Dazzling Gleam is used to KO Pokemon Togedemaru weakens with Endeavor. I've had several battles where Togedemaru and Aromatisse managed to wipe out the opponent's team on their own. Disable may seem like an odd choice but it pairs very nicely with Togedemaru's Encore and I used to have a lot of fun using an Encore/Disable team in Maison Triples back in the day. It also helps to stop some Pokemon from taking out Togedemaru with priority moves with Aromatisse disabling the move while Togedemaru protects on it. The nature choice and EV spread is the same as JustinTR's 569 streak Aromatisse which was EVd to live Sludge Bombs from Mega Gengar which would be extremely difficult to deal with if I didn't get Trick Room up. Lum Berry for confusion and the unlucky freeze hax which I've had lately (including a double turn one freeze from Blizzard). Nicknamed after Yuga, the villain from The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds.
Mudsdale (ガンパウダー Gunpowder, M) @ Assault Vest
Nature: Brave
Ability: Stamina
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/0
EVs: 252/252/6/0/0/0
Moves:
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Rock Slide
Backup 1. The physical attacker. I had a lot of trouble deciding on a physical attacker for this team. I originally considered using a Mega Pokemon but none of them appealed to me so I looked at other Pokemon. I decided on Mudsdale because he's slow, has good attack and defences, and pretty good coverage so he felt like a good fit for the team. Brave with max attack to KO stuff and max HP to increase his survivability. Stamina for the ability as his other abilities are nowhere near as good. Heavy Slam and Close Combat are high power moves coming from Mudsdale, Rock Slide is for coverage and Earthquake is the obvious STAB move. I considered using other Ground type moves instead but High Horse Power has a chance to miss and Stomping Tantrum is too weak so I stuck with Earthquake which goes well with Vikavolt. Assault Vest to increase his special defence although Grass Knot is still an OHKO (at least coming from special Decidueye and Protean Greninja). Nicknamed after Ichabod Crane's horse in the Sleepy Hollow film.
Vikavolt (スタルチュラ Stalchula (Skulltula), M) @ Bugium-Z
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 31/X/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252/0/0/252/6/0
Moves:
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz (Savage Spinout)
- Protect
- Hidden Power (Ice)
Backup 2. The special attacker. Like with Mudsdale I had trouble deciding on what special attacker I wanted to use for my team. In the end I chose Vikavolt because of its massive special attack and pitiful speed. Thunderbolt and Bug Buzz for STAB, HP Ice for coverage and Protect for scouting, getting Trick Room back up etc. I chose Bugium-Z over Electrium-Z because of Ground types as I had problems with Normal types when my previous team's Mimikyu had Ghostium-Z over Fairium-Z and didn't want a repeat of that. Quiet nature and max special attack EVs for maximum power. HP for more survivability. Nicknamed after Skulltulas from The Legend of Zelda series.
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sturdy
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/31
EVs: None
Moves:
- Fake Out
- Encore
- Spiky Shield
- Endeavor
My left hand lead. FEAR Togedemaru. I've never used a FEAR Pokemon before but wanted to give it a try. Togedemaru over Aron due to a few moves it can get that Aron can't, namely Spiky Shield, Encore and Fake Out. Fake Out for ensuring both my Pokemon survive and get Trick Room up the first turn outside of crits or flinching which has so far only happened once in 70+ battles, Spiky Shield over Protect because it does the exact same thing with the extra damage bonus against physical attackers. Encore is to lock Pokemon into useless moves or to stop them attacking completely with Aromatisse's Disable (I commonly do this with Ghost types which Togedemaru obviously can't touch). No EVs because it's a FEAR Pokemon but flawless IVs because I'm the sort of person who has to have perfect IV Pokemon. Nicknamed after Amy Rose from the Sonic the Hedgehog series.
Aromatisse (ユガ Yuga, M) @ Lum Berry
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Aroma Veil
IVs: 31/X/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252/0/77/0/181/0
Moves:
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Trick Room
- Disable
My right hand lead. My choice of Trick Room setter, chosen because of his ability Aroma Veil which blocks Taunt, Cursed Body and other annoying statuses which would otherwise prevent me setting up Trick Room. So far I've only failed to get Trick Room up due to Fake Out flinching and one unlucky Iron Head flinch. Protect and Trick Room are obvious while Dazzling Gleam is used to KO Pokemon Togedemaru weakens with Endeavor. I've had several battles where Togedemaru and Aromatisse managed to wipe out the opponent's team on their own. Disable may seem like an odd choice but it pairs very nicely with Togedemaru's Encore and I used to have a lot of fun using an Encore/Disable team in Maison Triples back in the day. It also helps to stop some Pokemon from taking out Togedemaru with priority moves with Aromatisse disabling the move while Togedemaru protects on it. The nature choice and EV spread is the same as JustinTR's 569 streak Aromatisse which was EVd to live Sludge Bombs from Mega Gengar which would be extremely difficult to deal with if I didn't get Trick Room up. Lum Berry for confusion and the unlucky freeze hax which I've had lately (including a double turn one freeze from Blizzard). Nicknamed after Yuga, the villain from The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds.
Mudsdale (ガンパウダー Gunpowder, M) @ Assault Vest
Nature: Brave
Ability: Stamina
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/0
EVs: 252/252/6/0/0/0
Moves:
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
- Rock Slide
Backup 1. The physical attacker. I had a lot of trouble deciding on a physical attacker for this team. I originally considered using a Mega Pokemon but none of them appealed to me so I looked at other Pokemon. I decided on Mudsdale because he's slow, has good attack and defences, and pretty good coverage so he felt like a good fit for the team. Brave with max attack to KO stuff and max HP to increase his survivability. Stamina for the ability as his other abilities are nowhere near as good. Heavy Slam and Close Combat are high power moves coming from Mudsdale, Rock Slide is for coverage and Earthquake is the obvious STAB move. I considered using other Ground type moves instead but High Horse Power has a chance to miss and Stomping Tantrum is too weak so I stuck with Earthquake which goes well with Vikavolt. Assault Vest to increase his special defence although Grass Knot is still an OHKO (at least coming from special Decidueye and Protean Greninja). Nicknamed after Ichabod Crane's horse in the Sleepy Hollow film.
Vikavolt (スタルチュラ Stalchula (Skulltula), M) @ Bugium-Z
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 31/X/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252/0/0/252/6/0
Moves:
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz (Savage Spinout)
- Protect
- Hidden Power (Ice)
Backup 2. The special attacker. Like with Mudsdale I had trouble deciding on what special attacker I wanted to use for my team. In the end I chose Vikavolt because of its massive special attack and pitiful speed. Thunderbolt and Bug Buzz for STAB, HP Ice for coverage and Protect for scouting, getting Trick Room back up etc. I chose Bugium-Z over Electrium-Z because of Ground types as I had problems with Normal types when my previous team's Mimikyu had Ghostium-Z over Fairium-Z and didn't want a repeat of that. Quiet nature and max special attack EVs for maximum power. HP for more survivability. Nicknamed after Skulltulas from The Legend of Zelda series.
Like in the SM Tree, it's taken awhile to get going in USUM's Tree. I brought over my old team from Moon to use but I could never get as far as I did before, I couldn't even reach 50 let alone 110 again. Even giving Mimikyu Mimikium-Z didn't help so I retired the team and started planning a new one. I went through numerous ideas, none ever reaching the Tree, and ended up just using random Pokemon not expecting to get far. I didn't. I haven't tried Singles as I'm not very good at it and don't enjoy it anyway but I did give Multis a go. Furthest I got was 42 (twice) losing because of Colress making dumb decisions and unfortunate crit hax against me the first time. Both times I partnered up with Colress using Adaptability Normalium-Z Porygon-Z and Mega Metagross while I used Dusk Lycanroc both times and Mega Sableye in one streak and Mega Lopunny in another.
After losing Multi twice I decided to go back to Doubles. After reading that Togedemaru is now the best FEAR Pokemon to use I decided to give it a go and see how far I could get. That was last year so it's taken me a long time to finally get round to playing again. Deciding on what Pokemon to use was hard. Togedemaru was obvious and Aromatisse is my favourite Trick Room setter so those 2 were easy but picking backups, not so much. I eventually settled on Vikavolt because of its high special attack and low speed, and because I'd never used one before. Mudsdale I chose for two reasons, one because of its stats (good physical attack, good defences and terrible speed), the other reason was because I wanted to use a Pokemon that hadn't been on the leader board yet. After browsing through it and not seeing Mudsdale I chose him. Obviously I am now aware he is on the leader board (twice) thanks to a Ctrl+F search which I couldn't do before, but I decided to keep him anyway as I do really like Mudsdale as a Pokemon.
After losing Multi twice I decided to go back to Doubles. After reading that Togedemaru is now the best FEAR Pokemon to use I decided to give it a go and see how far I could get. That was last year so it's taken me a long time to finally get round to playing again. Deciding on what Pokemon to use was hard. Togedemaru was obvious and Aromatisse is my favourite Trick Room setter so those 2 were easy but picking backups, not so much. I eventually settled on Vikavolt because of its high special attack and low speed, and because I'd never used one before. Mudsdale I chose for two reasons, one because of its stats (good physical attack, good defences and terrible speed), the other reason was because I wanted to use a Pokemon that hadn't been on the leader board yet. After browsing through it and not seeing Mudsdale I chose him. Obviously I am now aware he is on the leader board (twice) thanks to a Ctrl+F search which I couldn't do before, but I decided to keep him anyway as I do really like Mudsdale as a Pokemon.
Dual Fake Out and flinch leads. These are obviously a problem as they pretty much guarantee I won't be getting Trick Room up turn one. I usually double Protect when both opponents can know Fake Out to prevent taking damage but that always means I can't Fake Out myself meaning Togedemaru will almost always end up getting hit at least once. Iron Head users and Pokemon with Rock Slide also fall into this category.
Mold Breaker. Can hit through Sturdy and Taunt through Aroma Veil. Thankfully the game tells you when a Pokemon has this ability so it's less of an issue but I have still lost Togedemaru to it (due to me not paying attention).
Opposing Trick Room setters. These were very threatening with my old team which was built around speed but now they're not threatening but they are extremely annoying as they keep taking my Trick Room down forcing me to waste a turn getting it back up.
Alolan Marowak and Magnezone. Not problems for Mudsdale but problems for everyone else. Both these Pokemon completely wall Aromatisse and Vikavolt with neither being able to hit them for even neutral damage (Marowak can be hit with Thunderbolt provided it doesn't have Lightningrod which isn't worth the risk) while Togedemaru can't touch Marowak at all outside of Spiky Shield. Magnezone can at least be dispatched with Endeavor and Dazzling Gleam so it's less of a problem. I've considered giving Vikavolt Mud Shot for these Pokemon but Mud Shot is pretty weak and would be very situational, and Mudsdale has Earthquake to deal with them anyway.
Dual Ghost type leads. Togedemaru can't do anything which makes her useless. I don't like risking the switch so I usually Spiky Shield and set up Trick Room, then Encore-Disable both of them so it's safe to switch but that's not really ideal. It does work most of the time though.
Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, Rocky Helmet, Flame Body and Jaboca Berry. These can all be issues for Togedemaru breaking Sturdy rendering her useless.
Priority Moves. These ignore Trick Room and can easily KO Togedemaru. I have scouted these with Spiky Shield and Disabled them but that doesn't always work and almost always means I have to lose my Berry Juice or be dropped to 1HP to do this.
Grass Knot. Not even Assault Vest can Protect Mudsdale from this.
Quick Claw. Ignores Trick Room and is just a cheap item in general.
Mold Breaker. Can hit through Sturdy and Taunt through Aroma Veil. Thankfully the game tells you when a Pokemon has this ability so it's less of an issue but I have still lost Togedemaru to it (due to me not paying attention).
Opposing Trick Room setters. These were very threatening with my old team which was built around speed but now they're not threatening but they are extremely annoying as they keep taking my Trick Room down forcing me to waste a turn getting it back up.
Alolan Marowak and Magnezone. Not problems for Mudsdale but problems for everyone else. Both these Pokemon completely wall Aromatisse and Vikavolt with neither being able to hit them for even neutral damage (Marowak can be hit with Thunderbolt provided it doesn't have Lightningrod which isn't worth the risk) while Togedemaru can't touch Marowak at all outside of Spiky Shield. Magnezone can at least be dispatched with Endeavor and Dazzling Gleam so it's less of a problem. I've considered giving Vikavolt Mud Shot for these Pokemon but Mud Shot is pretty weak and would be very situational, and Mudsdale has Earthquake to deal with them anyway.
Dual Ghost type leads. Togedemaru can't do anything which makes her useless. I don't like risking the switch so I usually Spiky Shield and set up Trick Room, then Encore-Disable both of them so it's safe to switch but that's not really ideal. It does work most of the time though.
Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, Rocky Helmet, Flame Body and Jaboca Berry. These can all be issues for Togedemaru breaking Sturdy rendering her useless.
Priority Moves. These ignore Trick Room and can easily KO Togedemaru. I have scouted these with Spiky Shield and Disabled them but that doesn't always work and almost always means I have to lose my Berry Juice or be dropped to 1HP to do this.
Grass Knot. Not even Assault Vest can Protect Mudsdale from this.
Quick Claw. Ignores Trick Room and is just a cheap item in general.
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For Knowledge, Stomping Tantrum has basically same power as Earthquake on one target. It's less weak than you'd think.
I'd definitely recommending it if you feel the forced protects when not paired with Vikavolt are a problem.
Comparison:
252+ Atk Mudsdale Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 49-60 (27.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Mudsdale Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 49-60 (27.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
(also, since when does Aggron-3 have Dragon Rush °_° )
I'd definitely recommending it if you feel the forced protects when not paired with Vikavolt are a problem.
Comparison:
252+ Atk Mudsdale Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 49-60 (27.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Mudsdale Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 49-60 (27.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
(also, since when does Aggron-3 have Dragon Rush °_° )
So the above team came to an unfortunate end at battle 161. The last replay I have is battle 160 (I turned my DS off in frustration at the loss >_>, but essentially it came down to me playing recklessly against a Heatran, losing Kartana to a burn, followed by missing several attacks against a Lax Incense holding Latios... Was too much of an uphill battle after that. I can't even remember what the last 2 mons were but they finished off Kang, Fini and Wak with no problem.
Here's the replay of my last winning battle, so let's just call that a finished streak of 160 wins in Super Doubles.
SR7W-WWWW-WWWE-MUBM
With that, I went back to the drawing board and decided to try again with a new team. After some trial and error (I tried several different things, Chandelure, M-Medicham, tons of different things with varying success), I settled on the team below which I really wasn't sure of at first but proved to be pretty damn good.
So here's a finished streak of 256 wins in Super Doubles.
Team Details
Team Wilevile? I'm bad at names.
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate -> Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Def (I'm not 100% sure this is exactly right)
Nature: Adamant
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
I've tried a lot of Mega Evolutions in the tree, obviously Kang with the last team, Scizor, Medicham which I both had moderate success with, but I decided to try Mawile and it proved to be fantastic during this streak. He was bred and EV trained in ORAS so I can't remember exactly what these EVs do, but it proved to make Mawile quite tanky, he wasn't going to outspeed much anyway. Standard moveset, Play Rough being 90% accuracy is one of the worst aspects of this whole team and it has missed a few times when I really needed it to hit (e.g. the loss where Play Rough missed on M-Sceptile). Aside from that, he hits like a truck and often just deletes the other side of the field, while having great resistances and being decently tanky along with it. Sucker Punch is fantastic and hits incredibly hard with Mawile's huge attack power.
Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Nature: Jolly
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Protect
Weavile is fast, frail and great for baiting with her Focus Sash and Protect. Knock Off is great for removing items, Leftovers, Sitrus Berries on bulky mons, all manner of things,, while also being a fairly hard hitting Dark STAB. Ice Punch reliably KOs 4x weak mons. The fast Fake Out is amazing and stops threats to Mawile turn 1, letting Mawile often pick up a KO off the bat. Full attack and speed investment just to be as fast and hit as hard as possible (she isn't living hits anyway).
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 188 SpA / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Again the same Tapu Fini from Josh C's Lopunny team. I feel like I can't play in the Battle Tree anymore without Misty Surge, it's amazing. Fini is quite bulky and switches in to Fire attacks for the two leads, provides the Misty Terrain, while still being decently offensive. Just an amazing Pokemon all around.
Landorus-I @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Timid
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic
- Protect
Was so lucky getting this with a Timid nature. Immune to Electric hits that target Fini, swiftly removes most Fire and Electric types from the field with Earth Power, Sludge Bomb picks up KOs quite well on Grass and Fairies, didn't have a decent Hidden Power of course so just went with Psychic for the last option, wasn't used often but hits stuff like Crobat which is nice.
Issues I encountered;
I'd probably consider running Grass Knot in the next streak, the likes of M-Swampert were usually just gradually worn down while baiting EQs and Waterfalls with Lando/Fini respectively, but would be much more easily dealt with by Grass Knot which I'd put on either Fini or Landorus (I think they can both learn it?).
Not having a never-miss move (such as Kartana's Smart Strike), I had an almost endless battle against a Cresselia that spammed Double Team and was left 1v1 with Mawile. Luckily the only "offensive" move it had was Toxic so it just ended up in a PP war that Mawile won, but a nuisance nonetheless.
Fire teams could be scary but Lando and Fini dealt with them sufficiently, I was never afraid to pull a double switch, I could always bring Weavile back in and Fake Out. Scarf Eruption users such as Typhlosion and Entei could be Sucker Punched by Mawile to reduce the damage.
Play Rough's accuracy is a pain, I really wish there was a 100% accurate, decent hitting physical Fairy move, it's missed more times than I would have liked.
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate -> Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Def (I'm not 100% sure this is exactly right)
Nature: Adamant
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
I've tried a lot of Mega Evolutions in the tree, obviously Kang with the last team, Scizor, Medicham which I both had moderate success with, but I decided to try Mawile and it proved to be fantastic during this streak. He was bred and EV trained in ORAS so I can't remember exactly what these EVs do, but it proved to make Mawile quite tanky, he wasn't going to outspeed much anyway. Standard moveset, Play Rough being 90% accuracy is one of the worst aspects of this whole team and it has missed a few times when I really needed it to hit (e.g. the loss where Play Rough missed on M-Sceptile). Aside from that, he hits like a truck and often just deletes the other side of the field, while having great resistances and being decently tanky along with it. Sucker Punch is fantastic and hits incredibly hard with Mawile's huge attack power.
Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Nature: Jolly
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Protect
Weavile is fast, frail and great for baiting with her Focus Sash and Protect. Knock Off is great for removing items, Leftovers, Sitrus Berries on bulky mons, all manner of things,, while also being a fairly hard hitting Dark STAB. Ice Punch reliably KOs 4x weak mons. The fast Fake Out is amazing and stops threats to Mawile turn 1, letting Mawile often pick up a KO off the bat. Full attack and speed investment just to be as fast and hit as hard as possible (she isn't living hits anyway).
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 188 SpA / 52 SpD / 12 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Again the same Tapu Fini from Josh C's Lopunny team. I feel like I can't play in the Battle Tree anymore without Misty Surge, it's amazing. Fini is quite bulky and switches in to Fire attacks for the two leads, provides the Misty Terrain, while still being decently offensive. Just an amazing Pokemon all around.
Landorus-I @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Timid
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic
- Protect
Was so lucky getting this with a Timid nature. Immune to Electric hits that target Fini, swiftly removes most Fire and Electric types from the field with Earth Power, Sludge Bomb picks up KOs quite well on Grass and Fairies, didn't have a decent Hidden Power of course so just went with Psychic for the last option, wasn't used often but hits stuff like Crobat which is nice.
Issues I encountered;
I'd probably consider running Grass Knot in the next streak, the likes of M-Swampert were usually just gradually worn down while baiting EQs and Waterfalls with Lando/Fini respectively, but would be much more easily dealt with by Grass Knot which I'd put on either Fini or Landorus (I think they can both learn it?).
Not having a never-miss move (such as Kartana's Smart Strike), I had an almost endless battle against a Cresselia that spammed Double Team and was left 1v1 with Mawile. Luckily the only "offensive" move it had was Toxic so it just ended up in a PP war that Mawile won, but a nuisance nonetheless.
Fire teams could be scary but Lando and Fini dealt with them sufficiently, I was never afraid to pull a double switch, I could always bring Weavile back in and Fake Out. Scarf Eruption users such as Typhlosion and Entei could be Sucker Punched by Mawile to reduce the damage.
Play Rough's accuracy is a pain, I really wish there was a 100% accurate, decent hitting physical Fairy move, it's missed more times than I would have liked.
Videos (including the loss this time)
All videos on Ultra Sun.
Battle 257 (loss) vs Ace Trainer Raz (Greninja, Ribombee, Talonflame, M-Sceptile)
XDAG-WWWW-WWWE-MPF3
Disappointed in how this went, I misplayed certainly letting Weavile die to Quick Attack from Talonflame when I could have just switched something to take it and brought Weavile back in later for another Fake Out. Ultimately though, I missed a Play Rough on M-Sceptile which would have prevented the loss had it landed. M-Sceptile goes down to an Ice Beam from Fini, but by the end it's down to whether Greninja lands its Blizzard and sadly it hits both Lando and Fini. I should have protected one of them perhaps, in hindsight. Could even have taken down Greninja first and possibly killed Sceptile with Landorus' Sludge Bomb. All in all a disaster :(
Battle 230 vs Cynthia (Togekiss, Lucario, Garchomp, Milotic)
LCVG-WWWW-WWWE-MTJH
Relatively easy battle, aside from Play Rough miss and Air Slash flinch from Togekiss. Double Protect to scout Garchomp's set, it was slower than Togekiss so Weavile can safely KO with Ice Punch without it being much of a threat.
Battle 205 vs Rising Star Dolly (M-Swampert, Armaldo, Kingdra, Ludicolo)
MRCG-WWWW-WWWE-MTU9
Rain teams can be a pain, M-Swampert is difficult to play against, luckily I haven't encountered too many, but this was simply a case of wearing it down with Fini and Weavile, the rest of the team wasn't difficult to go up against.
Battle 121 vs Veteran Demiathena (Thundurus, Azelf, Zapdos, Virizion)
8XQG-WWWW-WWWE-MU3U
This battle just showcases the two lead Pokemon running riot. Azelf gets off one Thunderbolt, Sucker Punch just destroys it, Focus Sash turn 1, KO turn 2. Weavile OHKO's Thundurus with Ice Punch and almost does the same to Zapdos, Virizion is OHKO'd by Play Rough.
I have a ton more videos this time round, this is just a random selection, I'll likely go through them all and find some more interesting battles and edit them into this post.
Battle 257 (loss) vs Ace Trainer Raz (Greninja, Ribombee, Talonflame, M-Sceptile)
XDAG-WWWW-WWWE-MPF3
Disappointed in how this went, I misplayed certainly letting Weavile die to Quick Attack from Talonflame when I could have just switched something to take it and brought Weavile back in later for another Fake Out. Ultimately though, I missed a Play Rough on M-Sceptile which would have prevented the loss had it landed. M-Sceptile goes down to an Ice Beam from Fini, but by the end it's down to whether Greninja lands its Blizzard and sadly it hits both Lando and Fini. I should have protected one of them perhaps, in hindsight. Could even have taken down Greninja first and possibly killed Sceptile with Landorus' Sludge Bomb. All in all a disaster :(
Battle 230 vs Cynthia (Togekiss, Lucario, Garchomp, Milotic)
LCVG-WWWW-WWWE-MTJH
Relatively easy battle, aside from Play Rough miss and Air Slash flinch from Togekiss. Double Protect to scout Garchomp's set, it was slower than Togekiss so Weavile can safely KO with Ice Punch without it being much of a threat.
Battle 205 vs Rising Star Dolly (M-Swampert, Armaldo, Kingdra, Ludicolo)
MRCG-WWWW-WWWE-MTU9
Rain teams can be a pain, M-Swampert is difficult to play against, luckily I haven't encountered too many, but this was simply a case of wearing it down with Fini and Weavile, the rest of the team wasn't difficult to go up against.
Battle 121 vs Veteran Demiathena (Thundurus, Azelf, Zapdos, Virizion)
8XQG-WWWW-WWWE-MU3U
This battle just showcases the two lead Pokemon running riot. Azelf gets off one Thunderbolt, Sucker Punch just destroys it, Focus Sash turn 1, KO turn 2. Weavile OHKO's Thundurus with Ice Punch and almost does the same to Zapdos, Virizion is OHKO'd by Play Rough.
I have a ton more videos this time round, this is just a random selection, I'll likely go through them all and find some more interesting battles and edit them into this post.
So that's the doubles streak, I'm thinking of having a go at Singles next, or trying some Multi with an AI partner now I've scouted a few good ones.
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*sigh* my semi-original team of Oranguru/Hariyama/Drampa/M-Mawile failed yet again in its latest effort to creep closer to its original milestone, but I lost on battle 171, which is moderately better than the previous attempts which usually met a nightmare lead combo a lot sooner.
I encountered a firefighter leading Palossand and Mega Slowbro, which meant Hariyama was not going to accomplish dick before being slain. That said, I made the risky call of sacking it to bring in Drampa safely for the outspeed & OHKO on Slowbro, only to find Goodra3 immediately taking its place. Had I risked the switch and taken the hit, I would have had a much better alternative to slaying it and Palossand; as it stood, I would learn I used Devastating Drake too soon. By the time Mawile came out, TR was gone and Goodra had set rain. Intimidate wasn't enough to stop a Gyarados3 from helping it pick off what was left of Drampa and then finishing off my Mawile. Had I switched Drampa for Hariyama, I'd have needed Palossand to target Oranguru (which it did) because surviving both a Psychic and an Earth Power had terrible odds even without a SpD drop.
I had spent the past couple days re-EVing a bunch of really old spreads and was aleady getting pretty bored with the team (battles 101-155 were all done yesterday) so it's about damn time for something new. No change to my milestone though, so bummer nonetheless. I was having good luck with avoiding Grimsley, not to mention lead Escavaliers or combos that forced me to sack Hariyama just to prevent a probable Oranguru slaying.
I encountered a firefighter leading Palossand and Mega Slowbro, which meant Hariyama was not going to accomplish dick before being slain. That said, I made the risky call of sacking it to bring in Drampa safely for the outspeed & OHKO on Slowbro, only to find Goodra3 immediately taking its place. Had I risked the switch and taken the hit, I would have had a much better alternative to slaying it and Palossand; as it stood, I would learn I used Devastating Drake too soon. By the time Mawile came out, TR was gone and Goodra had set rain. Intimidate wasn't enough to stop a Gyarados3 from helping it pick off what was left of Drampa and then finishing off my Mawile. Had I switched Drampa for Hariyama, I'd have needed Palossand to target Oranguru (which it did) because surviving both a Psychic and an Earth Power had terrible odds even without a SpD drop.
I had spent the past couple days re-EVing a bunch of really old spreads and was aleady getting pretty bored with the team (battles 101-155 were all done yesterday) so it's about damn time for something new. No change to my milestone though, so bummer nonetheless. I was having good luck with avoiding Grimsley, not to mention lead Escavaliers or combos that forced me to sack Hariyama just to prevent a probable Oranguru slaying.
Eh, lead Escavaliers are just inherently threatening to most TR teams. They're geared to rip giant chunks out of any psychic or fairy and are slow enough (Set3 especially) to get the jump on a lot of your standard goodstuffs in spite of maintaining lowest possible speed. Even the blubbery Rhyperior can only speed tie with Escavalier4, the faster of the two. Minimalist Drampa only speed ties with #3 and that Life Orb ensures a OHKO if it moves first. It takes something like Dusclops and FEAR, or Torkoal or Camerupt to not only set TR with relatively no fuss, but also guarantee outspeeding and killing it. Unlike Shiinotic who's a pain primarily to base 50s and higher, of which I have many, Escavalier has the capacity to actually kill things by itself. Much of the time, when it leads, you have to temporarily abandon Plan A and do what you can to kill it without its partner throwing its own wrench into the works. And we all prefer the path of least resistance :P
I'm too hesistant, if not outright indignant to say I'm afraid of the bugger, let alone terrified- especially since unlike other enemies, it's relatively hax-free; it's slow and it's strong, with only one really exploitable weakness. No Quick Claw or Brightpower or annoying abilities like Incinefucker4. Set4 has Swagger but I've seen it use it maybe once. So I just try to plan for it and hope it doesn't pair with something equally dangerous.
I'm too hesistant, if not outright indignant to say I'm afraid of the bugger, let alone terrified- especially since unlike other enemies, it's relatively hax-free; it's slow and it's strong, with only one really exploitable weakness. No Quick Claw or Brightpower or annoying abilities like Incinefucker4. Set4 has Swagger but I've seen it use it maybe once. So I just try to plan for it and hope it doesn't pair with something equally dangerous.
Hi there!
I am completely not into the Battle Tree and I have not played it so far, but I have a question regarding the Pokemon EV Splits here.
This is also referring to the battle maison, as I also have seen it there often, but just posting it here as Battle Tree is more recent.
I simply dont get why SO MANY pokemon here have an EV Split where they get 4 EV shifted on a *random* stat like Def or SDef for example.
Yes now you may say: Aaaah well noob! This is because with this 1 higher Stat the Pokemon has a special advantage.
And yes I know this is the case for all those Speed Tie things and for Aegislash its often
KP 252, ATK 252, Init 4
which makes sense. This way it can act faster than other Pokemon with the same Init Base, but KP + Atk is maxed.
And yes I know that sometimes the dudes here calculated that if a Pokemon gets like 10 additional Def, then they may survive the Attack XY so they do additional 40 EVs in Def.
But in this case I really cannot imagine that this is linked to the reason above. I have seen so many Pokemon here where it applies and I wonder why it is this way.
Examples:
GG Units Evolite Chansey:
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Well the HP EVs = +1 HP is for what? I mean it cannot have Leftovers ... and I really doubt, that +1 HP is making it survive a special move from a special threat. And the 4 SpD are also so random, I really doubt that this single +1 in SDef is making it survive something which it had not before.
I would have imagined for an Evolite Chansey 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD (in this case Init)
Next example:
SilverLinings Mega Salamence:
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
Yes the 20 Spe is definetly to be faster than someone, the 36 Atk is definetly to KO some foes with an attack which it would have not before. But again: What are these 4 Def ? I mean it's a sweeper, if you have additional 1 Stat Point to share then why this random +1 for Def ?
Those are just 2 but I have seen something like this on very much pokemon and I simply can't explain it Oo
I am completely not into the Battle Tree and I have not played it so far, but I have a question regarding the Pokemon EV Splits here.
This is also referring to the battle maison, as I also have seen it there often, but just posting it here as Battle Tree is more recent.
I simply dont get why SO MANY pokemon here have an EV Split where they get 4 EV shifted on a *random* stat like Def or SDef for example.
Yes now you may say: Aaaah well noob! This is because with this 1 higher Stat the Pokemon has a special advantage.
And yes I know this is the case for all those Speed Tie things and for Aegislash its often
KP 252, ATK 252, Init 4
which makes sense. This way it can act faster than other Pokemon with the same Init Base, but KP + Atk is maxed.
And yes I know that sometimes the dudes here calculated that if a Pokemon gets like 10 additional Def, then they may survive the Attack XY so they do additional 40 EVs in Def.
But in this case I really cannot imagine that this is linked to the reason above. I have seen so many Pokemon here where it applies and I wonder why it is this way.
Examples:
GG Units Evolite Chansey:
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Well the HP EVs = +1 HP is for what? I mean it cannot have Leftovers ... and I really doubt, that +1 HP is making it survive a special move from a special threat. And the 4 SpD are also so random, I really doubt that this single +1 in SDef is making it survive something which it had not before.
I would have imagined for an Evolite Chansey 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD (in this case Init)
Next example:
SilverLinings Mega Salamence:
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
Yes the 20 Spe is definetly to be faster than someone, the 36 Atk is definetly to KO some foes with an attack which it would have not before. But again: What are these 4 Def ? I mean it's a sweeper, if you have additional 1 Stat Point to share then why this random +1 for Def ?
Those are just 2 but I have seen something like this on very much pokemon and I simply can't explain it Oo
So you mean this is connected to the fact that the Level of the Pokes will be 50 and not 100 ? And the additional EVs would not have made any difference then to the other ones. Yeah that might be possible!
But wait now that I think of it:
If you need 8 EVs to change a stat by 1 at lvl 50, then only 4 EVs in Def are also a waste ... I mean there you would also have required 8 EVs, wouldnt it ? Oô
But wait now that I think of it:
If you need 8 EVs to change a stat by 1 at lvl 50, then only 4 EVs in Def are also a waste ... I mean there you would also have required 8 EVs, wouldnt it ? Oô
So the first point which you level up with EVs only takes 4 EVs but after this first +1 you need 8 EVs for a +1. Ok as I was never used to the mechanics at level 50 I am asking myself if this has already been in the last generations (Gen IV Battle Tower / Gen V Battle Subway) like this (that you get +1 with 4 EVs at the start), because I never saw anything like this ... it was always used to do 4 + 252 + 252 or something like that and it was also Level-50-Combatting
Also I don't get one of the strong teams namely the one by Josh C. and his Trick Room Oranguru:
Normally I had TR Teams in the battle challenges which were totally opted for min defense. But his Team members kind of slow outside of TR and even kind of slow inside of TR. Magnezone is completely not down to its minimum Speed and therefore slow in TR, being slow in TR nevertheless as it is not too slow outside of it. Also Mimigma is fully opted for Init, wouldn't that be bad in TR? I can understand that Mimigma is a little bit outstanding here, but why is Magnezone so medium slow? I mean you could say *to kill special enemies outside of TR* but with that argumentation ANY TR team would have had only medium-speed members in the past. But in my eyes you do the complete slow way or the complete fast O: Can anyone tell why its like that?
Also I don't get one of the strong teams namely the one by Josh C. and his Trick Room Oranguru:
Normally I had TR Teams in the battle challenges which were totally opted for min defense. But his Team members kind of slow outside of TR and even kind of slow inside of TR. Magnezone is completely not down to its minimum Speed and therefore slow in TR, being slow in TR nevertheless as it is not too slow outside of it. Also Mimigma is fully opted for Init, wouldn't that be bad in TR? I can understand that Mimigma is a little bit outstanding here, but why is Magnezone so medium slow? I mean you could say *to kill special enemies outside of TR* but with that argumentation ANY TR team would have had only medium-speed members in the past. But in my eyes you do the complete slow way or the complete fast O: Can anyone tell why its like that?
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No TR teams opt for minimum defense. One of the entire perks is that you can invest heavily in bulk without losing the speed advantage once the move is used.
Josh's Magnezone is EV'd that way to outspeed and destroy a number of threats on the opening turn, without needing TR in play. This includes a lot of slow water types as well as enemies that can badly injure Oranguru. Magnezone still has very poor overall speed, so it'll still outrun most of its enemies afterward.
All of the teams on the front page are links leading to elaborate writeups for each one. Clicking on Josh's TR team will bring you to his post, where he explains all of his EV spreads. That will do a better job than one of us trying to paraphrase.
Josh's Magnezone is EV'd that way to outspeed and destroy a number of threats on the opening turn, without needing TR in play. This includes a lot of slow water types as well as enemies that can badly injure Oranguru. Magnezone still has very poor overall speed, so it'll still outrun most of its enemies afterward.
All of the teams on the front page are links leading to elaborate writeups for each one. Clicking on Josh's TR team will bring you to his post, where he explains all of his EV spreads. That will do a better job than one of us trying to paraphrase.
Ah damn why did I write opt for min defense?
Of course min Speed. Well yeah I read it but I simply cannot imagine that killing a few mons in the first turn is better than overall speed in TR and as it is a TR team he will use TR all the time. Yeah ok - he got so far with that team so it MUST be the right tactic or at least not wrong, but when I did my TR Teams in GEN V and IV they are all completely down to min Speed.
I mean if you want to be in TR 100% of the time then I guess you should focus on maxing your pokes there and get the highest speed tier. It was just the way I tried - but I dont wanna say he should have done it in another way as he got so far. I'm just still wondering that it is paying out x)
Of course min Speed. Well yeah I read it but I simply cannot imagine that killing a few mons in the first turn is better than overall speed in TR and as it is a TR team he will use TR all the time. Yeah ok - he got so far with that team so it MUST be the right tactic or at least not wrong, but when I did my TR Teams in GEN V and IV they are all completely down to min Speed.
I mean if you want to be in TR 100% of the time then I guess you should focus on maxing your pokes there and get the highest speed tier. It was just the way I tried - but I dont wanna say he should have done it in another way as he got so far. I'm just still wondering that it is paying out x)
Yes, it has already been like that in Gen IV
Are you sure the person opted for min defense? Min speed would make more sense as we're dealing with a Trick Room Team.
The fact that Mimigma has max speed isn't really surprising. It's to outspeed and possibly eleminate Tapu Lele before it can attack one of your Pkm with its strong psychic moves, I think. With Mimikyu, you wouldn't be too reliant on Trick Room.
The thing is, the first turn is so important that the less you leave to chance, the better.
Take Barbaracle for example. Sniper Stone Edge has an 81% chance to OHKO Oranguru on a crit. It holds a Razor Claw, and due to the updated crit mechanics, there's a 50% chance of landing one if the move connects. Magnezone outspeeds and easily slaughters it before that dice roll can even take place. While Magnezone is going to be faster than Slowbro regardless, it's another example of something that you want to OHKO immediately, lest it attempt to set TR itself, or use an annoying move like Blizzard.
I run minimum speed, myself, but it comes at the cost of reliability. Without heavy support like Fake Out, I can find myself at a disadvantage. Josh wanted to mitigate some of that.
In general, TR teams need to also be able to function without TR to some extends.
Neither Oranguru nor Aromatisse (the premiere setters as far as tree goes) can survive *everything*, and both can be KOd by focus fire or crits. Therefore, being able to snipe out specific threats, or reaching certain speed tiers for Instruct, can dictate apparently weird EV sets.
My own only TR team on leadeboard in fact lost exactly like that if you read my analysis, specifically *exactly* to the lead i said it was an autoloss, Inner Focus Bisharp + Drapion lead from Grimsley which prevented TR from going up, and the team simply got run down.
The example Repto provided fits quite nicely: in the event of a lead that can either underspeed & threaten the team with KO or status under TR, or flat out KO the setter due to the negative priority of TR, the lead needs to be able to deal with it, or the backline to react to the event of non-settable TR without it spelling an automatic loss.
It's why when you craft a doubles team for Tree, you never 100% commit to one strategy: you don't just put in a setter and 3 < 40 base speed mons with no priority or stalling potential, you don't use a rain setter + 3 swift swimmers, etc :)
Backup plans are important.
Neither Oranguru nor Aromatisse (the premiere setters as far as tree goes) can survive *everything*, and both can be KOd by focus fire or crits. Therefore, being able to snipe out specific threats, or reaching certain speed tiers for Instruct, can dictate apparently weird EV sets.
My own only TR team on leadeboard in fact lost exactly like that if you read my analysis, specifically *exactly* to the lead i said it was an autoloss, Inner Focus Bisharp + Drapion lead from Grimsley which prevented TR from going up, and the team simply got run down.
The example Repto provided fits quite nicely: in the event of a lead that can either underspeed & threaten the team with KO or status under TR, or flat out KO the setter due to the negative priority of TR, the lead needs to be able to deal with it, or the backline to react to the event of non-settable TR without it spelling an automatic loss.
It's why when you craft a doubles team for Tree, you never 100% commit to one strategy: you don't just put in a setter and 3 < 40 base speed mons with no priority or stalling potential, you don't use a rain setter + 3 swift swimmers, etc :)
Backup plans are important.