Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Bertrand4979]

Ok so:

I'd officialy like to report a win streak of 195 wins in ultra sun super singles. Because deep down in my very core I am not smart, I forgot to upload the actual battle video. So i will include a photo of my record as proof.

So dear Betrand, what was your team?

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z (lead pokemon. This is the mon that made it all happen.)
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Swords Dance

The Garchomp is not easily taken down by any means. as a lead the plan was simple:
step 1: SD unless enemy could OHKO or posed huge threat
step 2: ALWAYS click devastating drake against anything but fairy types
step 3: offensively kill what is coming next with outrage/ earthquake

other members:

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power fire

Do i even need to explain what the Holy Rooster can do? It's just to spam choice specs thunderbolt/dazzling gleam.
Seriously though. not even gonna explain it any further. Things die unless they are fast and scarfed that's it.


Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

This walls 90% of the battle tree and has excellent type synergy with Tapu Koko. Also nice that it stalls like a stall selling other stalls in the marketplace. AND it can do great damage with heavy slam even without offensive investment so yeah.

How did i lose?

Metal burst bulky Cobalion killed chomp.
Tapu koko couldn't ohko the Rotom-W that followed so it got blasted with Hydro Vortex
Third mon was Moltres, it roasted Celesteela.

proof:

 

[Torqan]

So I’ve been playing with Shuckle trying to get him on Thebes leaderboard and it’s pretty hard. Here’s a look at the team in playing with, please feel free to make suggestions

Shuckle @ Chesto berry
Bold Sturdy
252 HP/252 Def/ 4 SpD
-Power Split
- Rest
- Acupressure
- Struggle Bug

Open with Power Split and of its a physical attacker switch to Aegi to lower attack with King’s Shield or Struggle Bug special attackers so I can switch in Salamence and set up easily behind substitutes. Shuckle can PP stall for days but his main job is to weaken opposing damage to allow Salamence to set up.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Jolly Intimidate
4 HP/252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 12 SpD/ 236 Speed
-Roost
-Dragon Dance
-Return
-Substitute

Credit for this EV spread goes to GG Unit

I saw there was a lot of success using the Salamence/Aegislash duo and I hadn’t played with them much so I figured I’d try them out. Not putting a write up for them since they’ve been covered to death already

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Brave Stance Change
0 Speed IV
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def

-Sacred Sword
-Shadow Sneak
-Swords Dance
-King’s Shield

Any suggestions or some better team mates for Shuckle?

 

[Anna says hi]

Metal burst bulky Cobalion killed chomp.
Tapu koko couldn't ohko the Rotom-W that followed so it got blasted with Hydro Vortex
Third mon was Moltres, it roasted Celesteela.

None of the Rotom-w in tree have waterium z (or any z-crystal for that matter), so yeah, fake. Even if you meant to say hydro pump instead, no trainer in tree can have both Cobalion2 (the metal burst set) and any rotom-w.

 

[atsync]

I've been doing the Afteruption thing some more in USUM with a new team and have a slightly better streak of 138 wins (Battle 139: D8KG-WWWW-WWWD-RNZH).

Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Modest + Quiet
Drought
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31 + 31/x/31/31/31/0
EVs: 172/0/0/252/84/0

Eruption
Flamethrower
Earth Power
Solar Beam

Ribombee @ Focus Sash
Timid
Shield Dust
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4/0/4/252/4/244

Moonblast
Powder
After You
Protect

Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Jolly
Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4/252/0/0/0/252

Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Iron Head
Protect

Sawsbuck @ Choice Band
Adamant
Chlorophyll
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4/252/4/0/4/244

Double-Edge
Seed Bomb
Wild Charge
Stomping Tantrum

Torkoal is mostly the same. I used the same Modest set for the 138 win streak but replaced it a 0 Speed Quiet set for subsequent attempts to make it a better anti-Trick Room Pokemon. Solar Beam is still expendable but it's a bit more useful now Lilligant isn't around to spam it.

Ribombee got After You from the USUM tutors. While it is much slower than Lilligant in the sun, it makes up for it with access to tools that can keep Pokemon shrug of the Afteruption strategy at bay. STAB Moonblast is quite helpful for Dragons (although it sadly can't OHKO many of them), and Powder, another new move for Ribombee, has been magnificent, completely shutting down attempts to fry it with fire moves, including from Scarfers like Fire Fang Garchomp and Overheat Manectric. Protect and Focus Sash round out the set, improve its longevity and giving it some baiting capabilities in specific match-ups. Fairium Z was tempting (Z-Moonblast OHKOes almost all Dragons) but I like Sash better and I think there are better ways to spend the Z move slot.

Garchomp was selected for its excellent defensive synergy with the leads - I'm running a stock standard Groundium Z set. I'm using Iron Head over Poison Jab because I've found the Steel coverage to be helpful as back-up coverage against Ice- and Rock-types in addition to its coverage on Fairies (and a lot of the Pokemon Poison Jab would be used for are susceptible to Fire anyway).

Sawsbuck is the most replaceable team member and its inclusion here is a bit self-indulgent (I think it's cool, ok?) but it does have a number of useful traits. It is very powerful in the sun, outspeeding all Scarfers easily and launching powerful Band-boosted attacks to snype fast things that would be rough opponents otherwise. It is particularly helpful against Ace Trainer Raz and all the other "fast Pokemon" specialists, since Ribombee can sometimes find itself outsped by those teams. Sawsbuck mostly spams Double-Edge but it also has unusually good coverage for a Chlorophyll Pokemon. Its type synergy with Torkoal is very good and its STAB Grass moves are helpful for Water and Rock teams (I don't have Lilligant to help against those any more, and in any case I find Sawsbuck is able to function slightly better outside of sun in situations where sandstorm overrides it). Its Ground resistance is also helpful because it makes using Garchomp's Earthquake safer. Wild Charge is good for some Flying-types, particularly Aerodactyl and Archeops. Stomping Tantrum gives the team more anti-Fire options but is rarely used. Jump Kick is a viable replacement for coverage on things like Snorlax and Regice - shame about the 95 accuracy though. The main downside with Sawsbuck is the poor type-synergy it shares with Ribombee and especially Garchomp. The shared Poison/Flying/Fire weaknesses with Ribombee have been managable, but the double Ice weakness at the back has been a problem against Ice leads and especially against Pokemon with Blizzard.

I've only tried this team a handful of times and got 2 more streaks of 86 and 90. Overall the team is still not ideal if going for super-long streaks, but at the very least it is more consistent than the Lilligant version, which acheived a lucky 90+ once and then proceeded to burn out in the 30s multiple times. I attribute this to the presence of Ribombee as an anti-anti-Afteruption Pokemon - while it doesn't have the ability to allow for full-powered Eruptions against as many opponents Lilligant, it provides much better support in situations where the strategy isn't appropriate.

This has been a fun experiment and it's satisfying to get obscure Pokemon some representation on the leader board, but I have other things I need to work on, so consider this post a signal for this team's retirement!

 

[Worldie]

Both fellows who ran the Kommonium Z teams used Totem for the extra girth. Good enough reasoning if you hate Mega Aerodactyl that much... I know there’s a couple other things that know Sky Drop, but Aero is one of the only relevant users past 40, I think.

I believe Mimikyu Totem is also a viable idea to use (hink hink take note single runners) because it reduces Heavy Slam damage against it.

In fact I even seen it used on smogon pvps...

 

[Bertrand4979]

None of the Rotom-w in tree have waterium z (or any z-crystal for that matter), so yeah, fake. Even if you meant to say hydro pump instead, no trainer in tree can have both Cobalion2 (the metal burst set) and any rotom-w.

lol thisis why i should have saved the battle video. I was very tired when i wrote my original post and i couldn't remember the second mon of the trainer anymore. It was something with hydro vortex though

 

[Brucolac]

If serebii is correct then there also is no trainer with Cobalion2 and Waterium Z...

 

[paperquagsire]

Boris, Priya, Napoleon, Inez, Mechabob, and Abel have Cobalion2
Of those, only Inez and Napoleon also carry Moltres
Neither of them have Rotom-W, or any other Rotoms. Both of them only have Suicune as a water type, and no Suicune set has Waterium Z. Maybe you meant to say Hydro Pump, which Suicune2 has? You can easily OHKO that with Tbolt though.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune in Electric Terrain: 252-296 (121.7 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Bertrand4979]

Boris, Priya, Napoleon, Inez, Mechabob, and Abel have Cobalion2
Of those, only Inez and Napoleon also carry Moltres
Neither of them have Rotom-W, or any other Rotoms. Both of them only have Suicune as a water type, and no Suicune set has Waterium Z. Maybe you meant to say Hydro Pump, which Suicune2 has? You can easily OHKO that with Tbolt though.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune in Electric Terrain: 252-296 (121.7 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I understand that it looks a bit shady on my part now. But then it must have been something like this:

the cobalion OHKOes garchomp with metal burst after i earthquake it

i am caught off guard now and i click dazzling gleam against weakened cobalion because i don't want to be locked into an electric move if a ground mon comes out (or bulky grass) I didn't use any trainer catalogue so...

suicune lives my next specs dazzling gleam and OHko's me with waterium z move

celesteela stalls out suicune but then dies to the moltres

anyway, if y'all dfecide that it's fake, then i'll just do it again and upload video this time

 

[paperquagsire]

I understand that it looks a bit shady on my part now. But then it must have been something like this:

the cobalion OHKOes garchomp with metal burst after i earthquake it

i am caught off guard now and i click dazzling gleam against weakened cobalion because i don't want to be locked into an electric move if a ground mon comes out (or bulky grass) I didn't use any trainer catalogue so...

suicune lives my next specs dazzling gleam and OHko's me with waterium z move

celesteela stalls out suicune but then dies to the moltres

anyway, if y'all dfecide that it's fake, then i'll just do it again and upload video this time

I'd love to believe it, but why would you keep Koko in when it can't use Tbolt instead of swapping to Celesteela and back to let it lock into Tbolt? Also there is no Suicune with waterium Z, and if it was a Rotom like you originally thought, how would celesteela stall that out?

 

[Bertrand4979]

I'd love to believe it, but why would you keep Koko in when it can't use Tbolt instead of swapping to Celesteela and back to let it lock into Tbolt? Also there is no Suicune with waterium Z, and if it was a Rotom like you originally thought, how would celesteela stall that out?

Ok wait up before i talk myself into more disbelief out of clumsiness how about this?

I have a battle video of me fighting against trainer 148 in the tree. If i show you guys that, in combination with the proof foto of 195 wins will that do?

We can argue all day but i just saw that i do have a battle vid of 148. i made it to show a friend

to show you i am not full of bs i will post this picture

 

[Bertrand4979]

and here is a foto of my entire 3ds screen:

 

[Bertrand4979]

battle video for 148:

MBUG-WWWW-WWWD-T45M

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

I understand that it looks a bit shady on my part now. But then it must have been something like this:

the cobalion OHKOes garchomp with metal burst after i earthquake it

i am caught off guard now and i click dazzling gleam against weakened cobalion because i don't want to be locked into an electric move if a ground mon comes out (or bulky grass) I didn't use any trainer catalogue so...

suicune lives my next specs dazzling gleam and OHko's me with waterium z move

celesteela stalls out suicune but then dies to the moltres

anyway, if y'all dfecide that it's fake, then i'll just do it again and upload video this time

If you didn’t use a trainer catalog, it’s fairly easy to assume you didn’t look up any sets or run any calcs, which also doesn’t help you at all. Your “warstory” has too many inconsistencies, not only the muddled Cobalion/Hydro Vortex bit but the fact that a Specs Tapu Koko, whose only truly good move is Thunderbolt, would use Dazzling Gleam “to avoid movelocking against a Ground or bulky Grass” when you’ve got Celesteela in reserve.

There are misplays and misremembering but in trying to get yourself out of the corner you’ve painted, you’ve now discarded logic. A battle vid 50 wins prior is not going to help.

I believe Mimikyu Totem is also a viable idea to use (hink hink take note single runners) because it reduces Heavy Slam damage against it.

In fact I even seen it used on smogon pvps...

...uh, bro? Does-does anyone use Heavy Slam aside from that super early Curse Wailord set? :P

 

[Bertrand4979]

If you didn’t use a trainer catalog, it’s fairly easy to assume you didn’t look up any sets or run any calcs, which also doesn’t help you at all. Your “warstory” has too many inconsistencies, not only the muddled Cobalion/Hydro Vortex bit but the fact that a Specs Tapu Koko, whose only truly good move is Thunderbolt, would use Dazzling Gleam “to avoid movelocking against a Ground or bulky Grass” when you’ve got Celesteela in reserve.

There are misplays and misremembering but in trying to get yourself out of the corner you’ve painted, you’ve now discarded logic. A battle vid 50 wins prior is not going to help.

Ok first of all: then at least put me up for 148 wins in the battle tree. That's the thing i can undoubtly prove with my battle video alone.

Second of all: i'll just do it again, upload that single battle video and be done with it.

I misremembered one pokemon from a trainer after beating 195 of the trainers. it all starts blurring together is what i'm saying. I don't mean any disrespect and i would never cheat just to get on a smogon leaderboard.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Ok first of all: then at least put me up for 148 wins in the battle tree. That's the thing i can undoubtly prove with my battle video alone.

Second of all: i'll just do it again, upload that single battle video and be done with it.

I misremembered one pokemon from a trainer after beating 195 of the trainers. it all starts blurring together is what i'm saying. I don't mean any disrespect and i would never cheat just to get on a smogon leaderboard.

*shrugs* people have attempted repeatedly. And I was going to suggest doing it all over if you were insistent on proving your team was capable. 195 uninterrupted wins in Singles without researching any opponents is not a small feat, which adds to the doubt/impressiveness.

Speaking of researching opponents, how does lead Garchomp deal with Sturdy Donphan? Whether you get the one that runs Counter or the Quick Claw user, all they need to do is punk your lead and you've got an uphill battle ahead. There are lots of Ground/Sand specialists, so you would've seen at least a few Donphans.

 

[Smuckem]

...uh, bro? Does-does anyone use Heavy Slam aside from that super early Curse Wailord set? :P

Aggron3 does, bro; Mudsdale4 too, bro.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Smuckem Worldie from what I've read, Totems have anywhere from two to four times the weight of the standard; sounds about right.

But Mimikyu weighs 1.5 lbs. Mudsdale I know off memory weighs over a metric ton, and Mega Aggron is considerably heavier than vanilla Aggron which, while nowhere near as chunky as Mudsdale, is still incredibly heavy (heavier than Hariyama, who I consider a decent user of the move.) Actually looking things up instead of going off memory, very early Dhelmise and Golurk sets also use the move. Slimmer than Wailord, but still absurdly heavier than Mimikyu, enough to easily secure that 120 BP.

So how exactly does Mimikyu lessen damage from Heavy Slam in totem form now? This seems very silly. Kommo at least becomes a pretty fat piece of shit when its weight is quadrupled.

 

[parsath]

Mimikyu totem's weight is 6,2 lbs (2,8 kg), so every pokemon heavier than 31 lbs (14 kg) can do max damage with heavy slam. Looking at the list of fully evolved 'mons that can learn the move, the lightest is donphan with 264 lbs (120 kg), much higher than 31 lbs, so i think totem mimikyu don't have any use, concerning the weight.

 

[Bertrand4979]

*shrugs* people have attempted repeatedly. And I was going to suggest doing it all over if you were insistent on proving your team was capable. 195 uninterrupted wins in Singles without researching any opponents is not a small feat, which adds to the doubt/impressiveness.

Speaking of researching opponents, how does lead Garchomp deal with Sturdy Donphan? Whether you get the one that runs Counter or the Quick Claw user, all they need to do is punk your lead and you've got an uphill battle ahead. There are lots of Ground/Sand specialists, so you would've seen at least a few Donphans.

I literally have seen no donphans but if i would, I'd switch to Celesteela immediately and wall it. Use leech seed, and then make sure to use protect and fire blast/heavy slam

also on a side note: i find it kind of weird how in the end I am accused of cheating because i misremembered what the second pokemon was in a 196th super single battle tree battle.

I know i didn't handle myself well in the following discussion and explaining my bad memory away. And for rhat I apologize

but you have a picture of me with a 195 super single record, AND a battle video of me at battle 148 sweeping everything with Garchomp.

From a logical standpoint: why would i try and lie about what happened between battle 148 and battle 195? All i did was make a mistake in my analysis. And yes i choked in the next part of the discussion, but i never had any ill intent. I simply couldn't remember that second mon in the losing battle because it was late. and i was excited about getting so far into the Tree

edit: all this is becoming irrelevant as i am already doing a second run

 

[Altissimo]

I literally have seen no donphans but if i would, I'd switch to Celesteela immediately and wall it. Use leech seed, and then make sure to use protect and fire blast/heavy slamalso on a side note: i find it kind of weird how in the end I am accused of cheating because i misremembered what the second pokemon was in a 196th super single battle tree battle.

Well, there's also this:

I literally have seen no donphans but if i would, I'd switch to Celesteela immediately and wall it. Use leech seed, and then make sure to use protect and fire blast/heavy slam

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

so, uh

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

I haven't come out and called you a cheater myself. But you have to understand that you've served up many of the ingredients present in the phony streaks we've gotten in the past, unintentionally or not. When you straight up admit you don't look up trainers and produce an impossible warstory, it becomes difficult to just plainly accept a streak at face value. Singles is really difficult to steamroll without knowing your opponent, and while 195 is far from the milestones people have managed to hit, it's not a small number, either. It gets bigger when put into the perspective of a user who carelessly sacks their lead against the enemy's own lead over a simple retaliation move. That probably isn't the first time it's happened (losing Garchomp right away I mean.)

While I doubt the powers that be are going to accept the original streak at this point, you are right in that redoing it from the beginning is a good way to earn some credibility back. Post a lot of replays, especially ones that don't involve the best-case scenarios of Garchomp setting up on something incredibly benign and getting a clean sweep. Show people how your team gets out of some murky shit.

 

[Bertrand4979]

I haven't come out and called you a cheater myself. But you have to understand that you've served up many of the ingredients present in the phony streaks we've gotten in the past, unintentionally or not. When you straight up admit you don't look up trainers and produce an impossible warstory, it becomes difficult to just plainly accept a streak at face value. Singles is really difficult to steamroll without knowing your opponent, and while 195 is far from the milestones people have managed to hit, it's not a small number, either. It gets bigger when put into the perspective of a user who carelessly sacks their lead against the enemy's own lead over a simple retaliation move. That probably isn't the first time it's happened (losing Garchomp right away I mean.)

While I doubt the powers that be are going to accept the original streak at this point, you are right in that redoing it from the beginning is a good way to earn some credibility back. Post a lot of replays, especially ones that don't involve the best-case scenarios of Garchomp setting up on something incredibly benign and getting a clean sweep. Show people how your team gets out of some murky shit.

The only point of me posting that 148 win video was so i could show that i did indeed do what i said i did (which is get to 195 wins with this team). i know it was an easy Garchomp win, but that wasn't about showcasing my team. It was purely showing that i beat the 148th trainer.

 

[RAlexa21th]

Since Chuggaaconroy is LPing BW, I have the urge to revisit the game. I've played through the campaign, and I am not fond of the restrictions on my Subway teambuilding. That said, I managed to build a team after researching VGC 2011.

Team #0.1 (Codename: Kyogre wannabe)

Wide Lens, Jolly, Inner Focus
- Fake Out, Hi-Jump Kick, Rock Slide, U-Turn
- 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe

Flying Gem, Jolly, Prankster
- Tailwind, Acrobatic, Rain Dance, Taunt
- 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe

Water Gem, Modest, Water Absorb
- Spout, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam, Protect
- 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 SpD

Life Orb, Modest, Levitate
- Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Surf, Protect
- 12 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 236 Spe

Threats to this team include Lanturn. Ferrothorn and Empoleon are tricky to fight if Mienshao goes down early but they can be brute forced, and Blissey is tough when both leads are gone.
I'm not sure what Ability I want for Tornadus and Mienshao. Nevertheless, I feel this team is solid enough to fight in B2W2 Subway.
My current run is 63 wins, still counting.

 

[turskain]

Since Chuggaaconroy is LPing BW, I have the urge to revisit the game. I've played through the campaign, and I am not fond of the restrictions on my Subway teambuilding. That said, I managed to build a team after researching VGC 2011.

Team #0.1 (Codename: Kyogre wannabe)

View attachment 96378
Wide Lens, Jolly, Inner Focus
- Fake Out, Hi-Jump Kick, Rock Slide, U-Turn
- 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe

View attachment 96379
Flying Gem, Jolly, Prankster
- Tailwind, Acrobatic, Rain Dance, Taunt
- 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe

View attachment 96380
Water Gem, Modest, Water Absorb
- Spout, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam, Protect
- 4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 SpD

View attachment 96381
Life Orb, Modest, Levitate
- Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Surf, Protect
- 12 HP, 4 Def, 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 236 Spe

Threats to this team include Lanturn. Ferrothorn and Empoleon are tricky to fight if Mienshao goes down early but they can be brute forced, and Blissey is tough when both leads are gone.
I'm not sure what Ability I want for Tornadus and Mienshao. Nevertheless, I feel this team is solid enough to fight in B2W2 Subway.
My current run is 63 wins, still counting.

Nice to see that someone's still playing the Subway. Have you considered Focus Sash on Mienshao with Low Kick over Hi-Jump Kick, or is Rock Slide and the power/risk of HJK worth it?