Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Beaver12]

Hey there!
So, I am a huge Battle Tree fan and am finally actually using this forum's resources to help myself, and I found this spreadsheet the absolutely most helpful, so thank you so much for all the work!

I just wanted to let you know that I found that the Spe Tier does not work as intended as the function is slightly off. I edited it so that it performs properly and displays the Pokémon's speed with the item taken into account and a truncated result. I have also updated everything to reflect the changes present in USUM, would you like me to send it to you or create a google doc of it and post it?

I guess just to expand on this since I noticed the OPer hasn't been active in 10 months, would anyone on this forum like me to post the edited spreadsheet workbook? to reiterate it is essentially the same thing as what is pinned on the homepage for this thread, but with a functioning speed tier column and adjusted pokemon sets to represent USUM changes

 

[ShadoeSch]

Good afternoon sirs,
This is the first time I post here in the forum. I have a team that I found very interesting (it's nothing new, but it worked).
I would like to know what you think:

First pokemon: - Porygon 2 (defensive build) and Eviolite
-Ice beam
- Foul Play
-Recover
-Toxic

Second Pokemon:
Mimikyu Adamant (Max Speed and Max Atk) and Mimikium Z
- Sword dance
-Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw

Third Pokemon:
Garchomp Jolly (Max Speed and Max Atk) and Garchompite
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb (I hate miss)
- Sword dance
- Outrage

The tactic is basically: Porygon 2 kills most pokemons through toxic and recover (as everyone here knows). But Porygon 2 faces two major difficulties: metal Pokemon and fighting Pokemon. For this I use the other two. For any pokemon that will use a fight attack, switch to mimikyu. For almost any metal pokemon, switch to garchomp (I prefer it to a charizard Y for example, because garchomp is complemented by mimikyu that resists dragon attacks and don't die so easily). There are a few pokemons to watch out for: Terrakion (outspeed everyone but dies for Mimikium Z, Mega mawille (never switch to garchomp because his first attack is Play rough always) and Mega Abomasnow (hard to deal with since he usually has Focus Blast to kill) Porygon 2 and Blizzard to kill Garchomp.) I recommend letting Porygon 2 die, use sword dance with Mimikyu (lose disguise) and use Mimikium Z.

And then, any suggestions for improving the build? Swap attacks, items, pokemons?

Thanks for reading.

 

[formula4speed]

Not much to write home about by Smogon standards, but finally picked up my 50 badge in Super Singles (did it before, but reset my game) after losing in the 40s repeatedly.

Ran a team of Dragonite, Mega Scizor and Mimikyu. Perhaps the only interesting thing about this team is they are all Adamant nature which makes it probably not very viable for longer runs. The saving grace is running Curse on Mimikyu to stall out things that can't be run over by the hyper offense nature.

Going to see how long I can keep this one going without looking up sets, which likely won't be long since I'm not really familiar with sets 3 and 4 that I'll be up against now.

 

[GG Unit]

So judging by the new 8th gen Battle Tower it looks like either you can just cheese it with legendaries/level 100 Pokemon, or Durant/Drapion/Mimikyu should do the trick just as well in terms of getting 1000+ straight wins.

 

[Eisenherz]

M O N O T Y P E S T A M P S
​

As mentioned in my previous post, I'm a huge fan of ANTS' ULTRA Stamps that provides the Tree with basically dozens of additional modes through self-imposed challenges. I decided to start tackling these with the Monotype stamps, and it's been an absolute blast. I'm now halfway through the stamps (I obtained my 9th this week), so before SwSh releases, I thought it would be fun to share the different teams and ideas that helped me obtain these stamps. For clarity, the stamp is obtained from winning 50 battles in a row; I think technically you could start anywhere, but all of these streaks were started from 0.
A few of these teams could be leaderboard-eligible, but I really don't want to spam it, so if anything, I'd like to submit just the Mono Normal run for the leaderboard, because Girafarig :3

Some of the teams surely benefited from some luck to make it through 50 (and/or required multiple attempts), while others could likely have gone much further. Here's a quick breakdown of my 9 successful teams so far, with a short compilation video of 2-5 battles for each!

MONO NORMAL
Streak: 109

Normal

The most obvious route when looking at options for Mono Normal is probably going with Trick Room. Normal features a ton of Fake Out options, and one of the best setters in Oranguru, not to mention plenty of usable sweepers (Snorlax, Ursaring, Bewear, Drampa, Wigglytuff... even Gumshoos could be pretty good!). But I was drawn by Mega Kangaskhan as the centerpiece of a Mono Normal team, as it offers both Fake Out support and a ton of damage for a single slot. At first, I thought Tailwind support would be a good addition to that, as there are a bunch of Normal/Flying options can set Tailwind and, as a bonus, threaten Fighting-types.

But as soon as I saw Eevee in the list of Normal Pokémon, I knew I had to go for it, if only for the throwback to my first Battle Tree leaderboard streak. Supporting Eevee without Friend Guard/Follow Me would definitely be more difficult, but Fake Out might do the job? My first attempt featured M-Kang at the front, and I had Tauros in the back for Intimidate support, with the plan to Fake Out + Eevoboost, and then switch in Tauros for Intimidate and Baton Pass to Kangaskhan, after which Tauros could either deal damage or Helping Hand to ensure Kang got OHKOs on everything.

As outlandish of a choice as Girafarig might seem, having a Psych Up user, preferably a special attacker, felt essential with this team, to create an alternative victory condition. After a bit more thinking, I also realized I needed a Fighting "resist", because of how omnipresent Fighting-type moves are in the Tree, especially Focus Blast. Those conditions narrowed down the candidates to Oranguru and Girafarig only, and from there the choice was easy, because I'd jump on any occasion to use Girafarig unironically! I've loved that Pokémon since Gen 2, but its poor stats makes it really difficult to ever find it a proper niche, and this was my chance. While nothing to write home about, +2 Girafarig hits fairly hard, and having a spread move to put things in range is always super useful in Tree. The boosts also patched its really bad defenses, turning it into a real potent sweeper. If only for the Psychic typing, I think this was probably the best pick for the job, though an offensive Oranguru may have been fine too (I have a really hard time imagining Oranguru as an offensive Pokémon, lol).

However, the first couple of runs were unsatisfactory. Having Kangaskhan at the front and being forced to switch it out in order to pass the boosts was really awkward, I didn't always need, or even want, Intimidate on turn 2. Moreover, this setup prevented Girafarig from getting a safe switch-in and getting to Psych Up the boosts. I'd end up with a Tauros-Girafarig endgame with no boosts often enough to consider the plan to not be good enough.

After realizing I didn't want Kangaskhan at the front anymore, and that a simple Tauros Intimidate wouldn't be enough to reliably Evoboost, I found how perfect Staraptor was for the job. Instant Intimidate and a pseudo-Fake Out in Final Gambit, and then the free switch I had been wanting all along to get Girafarig going. Staraptor has already proven to be quite the asset on many random teams I ran in the past, so I knew this would be pretty solid. I didn't expect it to be solid enough to go all the way to, and past 100 though! Obviously, a bit of luck has to be involved in an Eevee streak, since untimely crits or other forms of hax will eventually get the best of it (the loss was particularly frustrating!), but I was thrilled to not only take a Mono Normal team, but one that featured Eevee and Girafarig so far!

I used to have Quick Attack over Protect in my old Eevee streak - I replaced it this time around, since Protect was essential for turn 1 Fake Outs and such. Because that left Eevee attackless, Adaptability was completely useless, even undesirable, as in one game, Porygon2 traced the ability and powered up its Tri Attacks. Anticipation could have been quite useful instead, but I was way too attached to this Eevee which carried me to my first post-100 streak to not let it have the honors of being part of this team too. I don't think it made much of a difference in the end, it was just suboptimal.

@ Eevium Z

Jolly | Adaptability
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 196 HP / 4 Atk / 60 Def / 116 SpDef / 132 Spe
Last Resort / Baton Pass / Helping Hand / Protect

@ Choice Scarf

Jolly | Intimidate
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 212 Spe
Final Gambit / Brave Bird / Close Combat / U-turn

@ Kangaskhanite

Adamant | Scrappy → Parental Bond
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpDef / 100 Spe
Fake Out / Return / Drain Punch / Crunch

@ Mago Berry

Timid | Sap Sipper
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
EVs: 52 HP / 4 Def / 236 SpAtk / 28 SpDef / 188 Spe
Hyper Voice / Psychic / Psych Up / Protect

MONO FIRE
Streak: 78

Fire

Mono Fire was a lot more straightforward to build than Mono Normal, the team hasn't gone through any changes after its initial creation. Mega Camerupt is one of the best Trick Room sweepers, and Incineroar is the best Fire-type Pokémon of Gen 7 (for doubles, anyway). Torkoal is usually in competition with Camerupt for a spot on a Trick Room team since they're both Eruption spammers, but providing the sun for Camerupt seemed like it would be a deadly combo, so I doubled down on the Eruptions (plus, having sun was 100% necessary for Mono Fire to win against Rain trainers, and that could also allow Camerupt to tank a water hit for once).

The main issue for this was obviously the Trick Room setter. With Intimidate + Fake Out support in the lead, I knew the setter didn't have to be amazing. Only Delphox and Chandelure were possible candidates, so the choice was pretty easy, especially since I already had an Iron Ball Chandelure set for my random battles. Everything else came together quickly. Knowing Rain trainers were this team's #1 enemy, having Torkoal's Grass move being dependant on Sun being up seemed shaky, so with the Z-Move still free, I gave it Grassium Z, something that would be very subpar in most scenarios, but just made too much sense for Mono Fire. It came in very handy, and even though the Bloom Doom damage wasn't amazing, it was still a very necessary piece of the equation.

I think the team could have made it further. It's very matchup based, but the number of really tough matchups this team has in Tree isn't that big. I was hoping to make it to 90, but I kept running into a TON of Rain trainers, and won only from luck in some instances. Shockingly, while I went on to beat every Rain trainer, I lost to a regular trainer (a Punk Girl I think) with an Amoonguss - Malamar lead. Fearing Spore, I immediately targeted Amoonguss, failing to notice I had given Malamar a +1 boost with Intimidate. Incineroar got Superpowered before it could even move, Spore happened, and from there things were obviously downhill. While it would have been a tough lead to handle no matter what, noticing the +1 would have helped, I could have Faked Out Amoonguss and sacrificed Incineroar to a safer Trick Room, or I could have risked the Spore and Faked Out Malamar; I'll never know what slot Spore was targeting, so it may have been into Incineroar and I would have been fine. In short, a number of plays could have given me at least a fighting chance, but I messed up. The team felt solid enough outside of rain matchups to think it could very well get to 100 and more, but I got the stamp, so that's what matters!

@ Iapapa Berry

Brave | Intimidate
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Atk / 76 SpDef
Fake Out / Flare Blitz / Knock Off / U-turn

@ Iron Ball

Quiet | Flash Fire
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SpAtk
Flamethrower / Shadow Ball / Trick Room / Protect

@ Cameruptite

Quiet | Solid Rock → Sheer Force
IVs: 31/1/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpAtk
Eruption / Earth Power / Ancient Power / Protect

@ Grassium Z

Quiet | Drought
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SpAtk / 164 SpDef
Eruption / Flamethrower / Solar Beam / Protect

MONO WATER
Streak: 111

Water

"Mono Water? Easy money, Pelipper-Swampert rain, gg!"
Those were my thoughts when I started teambuilding, and though that wasn't *entirely* wrong, it was not as easy as I expected. I ran that archetype in Tree so much, but losing access to Specs Koko at the front is a huge deal in how easy rain is, and losing Best Grass Resist™, aka. Celesteela, also makes things a lot more shaky. I thought I could bruteforce my way through with a simple, classic Pelipper-Ludicolo lead and Mega Swampert in the back. For my first attempt, I completed the team with Araquanid, a decent Grass "resist" that can OHKO just about anything in rain, and can Wide Guard next to Swampert if necessary. I don't remember to what, but that team lost twice, and that made me realize Mono Water was not free wins, and I needed to put a little more thought into it.

First, as much as I liked Araquanid, it almost never got more than one hit in before going down; while it has great bulk, its speed is a real issue outside Trick Room, more so than I expected. Often, it would just get doubled up and go down before a single hit was fired.
Second, Ludicolo is WEAK! I think my expectations were too high since I was used to having Koko next to Pelipper, but Modest max SpA Ludicolo was not getting the KOs I expected of it. I know it's been successful on other rain teams, and it's not that bad, but it really didn't feel like it was patching the shortcomings of Mono Water, but rather was adding to them.

I thought of trying Golisopod to compress Ludicolo and Araquanid's roles into one; First Impression is a good enough replacement for Fake Out since it's able to score a ton of OHKOs with priority, and as an added bonus, it murders Grass types, which the team very much struggles with. This also allowed me to have Wide Guard at the front, protecting Pelipper from Rock Slides and Blizzards, and since the set featured 2 priority STABs, the poor speed wasn't nearly as much of an issue as it was with Araquanid. Emergency Exit, while usually considered a crippling ability, was awesome for this team, it gave me free switches to my Swift Swim sweeper of choice, or a way to reset rain if I switched out Pelipper instantly, not to mention it recycled First Impression; in a way, it helped me out similarly to how U-turn Incineroar helps me on ZapFini. Likewise, though one would think activating the ability with my own Life Orb would be frustrating, it ended up being an asset, I remember pulling off tricks like going for Aqua Jet, Exiting from the Life Orb, and sending in Swampert to take an Electric move. Leech Life allowed the Life Orb recoil to not cut into Golisopod's longevity too much, dealing and healing absurd amounts. Seriously, this streak was eye-opening for me as to how solid Golisopod can be, it was the star of the team by far.

Kingdra just made sense as a 4th, the Dragon typing was handy to "resist" Grass and Electric, and it's a decent Z-move user. I wasn't convinced it was the right member for that slot, but it won me over as I went along - it may not be an amazing Rain sweeper, but it felt better than Ludicolo on this team.

The loss stung, because I had been mostly breezing through with the team until then. Xio (a mono Fairy trainer) got the best of me; I thought I had won when I planned an endgame where low HP Pelipper and Golisopod were left against Sylveon and Shiinotic. Rain was over, and I had to get Shiinotic out of there, so I went for First Impression into it for the KO, and Scald on Sylveon, which put it in Aqua Jet range for the next turn. Golisopod was at half HP at that point, so I thought Sylveon could only score 1 KO and would lose to whichever Pokémon was left on the following turn. But Sylveon went for Dazzling Gleam and got a crit on Golisopod for the KO.

@ Focus Sash

Modest | Drizzle
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Tailwind / Hurricane / Scald / Protect

@ Life Orb

Adamant | Emergency Exit
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 244 HP / 244 Atk / 20 Def
First Impression / Leech Life / Aqua Jet / Wide Guard

@ Swampertite

Adamant | Damp → Swift Swim
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Waterfall / Earthquake / Ice Punch / Protect

@ Waterium Z

Modest | Swift Swim
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
EVs: 20 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpDef / 228 Spe
Scald / Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam / Protect

MONO GRASS
Streak: 51

Grass

This team is probably the one I'm the happiest about among all these Monotype teams, despite having the shortest streak. Grass was really difficult to build with, as it obviously suffers from a lot of weaknesses, and the fact the Tree features trainers that specialize in the stuff that counters Grass made it all the more difficult. Finding a way to not auto lose to Fire, Flying or Steel was a big challenge, especially with the poor coverage most Grass-types have, not to mention the awkward speed tiers.

I quickly resorted to Trick Room, since it's one of the most reliable archetypes to make lackluster Pokémon shine, allowing them to invest in bulk at no expense, and Alolan Exeggutor is a pretty good setter, despite its 4x weakness to Ice. I also knew I wanted Tapu Bulu; not only is it the most powerful Grass-types, it also provides everyone else on the team with a +1 boost on their STAB, something Mono Grass desperately needs. The rest took a while to come together. As a Trick Room setting support, I ran Parasect for my first couple of runs; the combination of Rage Powder and Wide Guard made it work pretty well. I did, however, run into one of the classic Trick Room problems: not enough free switches, lack of damage output before Trick Room ran out, and Rage Powder made me very prone to getting haxed (Thunder Wave, Confuse Ray, etc.). I think I ran Sunflora as the 4th at the time; very few Grass Pokémon have access to Earth Power, which is an incredibly valuable move for Mono Grass, and Sunflora surprisingly packs the biggest punch of the bunch, and has very respectable special bulk. While I was being paranoid of losing to Fire and Sun, I ended up losing to Flying types repeatedly.

Realizing I needed a Flying "resist", I considered Cradily, which also gets access to Earth Power. It's quite a lot weaker than Sunflora, but can be boosted with Storm Drain, and that's when it clicked! Ludicolo fit the rest of that puzzle perfectly; Fake Out provided much better Trick Room support, and Surf would also allow to boost Cradily (and could be used safely next to the other members too). Ludicolo + Cradily were also both neutral to Fire, and with Alolan Eggy already being neutral, this helped ease my Fire fears by a lot. Ludicolo's speed tier might not be great for Trick Room, but it ended up not being as much of a hindrance as I expected. Because spread Surf is super weak, Waterium Z seemed like a must.

As I was mentioning +1 Cradily on Discord, Milkshook inquired "where's Cradily getting +1? rototiller?", which was an instant, exciting eye-opener. ROTOTILLER! A move I have never, ever seen be of any use. If it ever could be good, it would have to be in the very strict context of a Mono Grass Doubles team. That was it!! The chance to unironically use Rototiller!!! As if it had been fate, every part fell into place: one of the only 3 Grass Pokémon that learns Rototiller was already on the team, and thanks to its Iron Ball, it was already slower than everything else, which made the Rototiller combo possible on a single turn, boosting both Bulu and its partner instantly. And Rototiller was definitely not just a meme feature, it ended up being extremely useful, even rescuing the team from what would otherwise have been a loss against Colress (featured in the replay compilation). Thanks a ton to Milkshook, because I would never have thought of Rototiller otherwise!

The team now felt more solid than I ever hoped Mono Grass could be, offering versatility in its playing patterns, lots of tools to work with and synergetic secondary typings.
...despite that, the team got whopped pretty much singlehandedly by Blizzard Goodra on battle 52. I was able to set Trick Room, but since I knew Goodra was White Herb and had Draco Meteor, I risked the switch from Exeggutor to Tapu Bulu expecting a Draco. With Bulu extremely low already, I Horn Leeched a Carracosta to get back some HP, but it wasn't enough to take a second Blizzard (meanwhile, Ludicolo was barely doing chip damage to it with Ice Beam). Banking on Goodra not being Sap Sipper, I should have at least tried to Wood Hammer it, it would have nearly KOed, and I didn't realistically have other means of dealing with it. Carracosta's slot became a Walrein, which set Hail and removed my only hope at that point, ie. Blizzard misses. Oh well, this was still the most fun adventure of Monotype!

@ Aguav Berry

Quiet | Frisk
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SpAtk / 124 SpDef
Energy Ball / Flamethrower / Trick Room / Protect

@ Waterium Z

Quiet | Own Tempo
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SpAtk
Fake Out / Surf / Ice Beam / Protect

@ Assault Vest

Quiet | Storm Drain
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpAtk
Giga Drain / Ancient Power / Earth Power / Sludge Bomb

@ Iron Ball

Brave | Grassy Surge
IVs: 31/31/31/28/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Wood Hammer / Horn Leech / Rock Slide / Rototiller

MONO ELECTRIC
Streak: 56

Electric

Similarly to Mono Water, I thought Mono Electric would be pretty easy given the obvious, proven KokoChu lead that has already brought many teams above 50. But just like Mono Water, I was overestimating the potential of 2 Pokémon alone to carry a team; while this combo does steamroll through a lot of matchups, it's relatively powerless against a few others. Unfortunately for Mono Electric, the things KokoChu have trouble with are things about every Electric type has trouble with (not to mention, the pool of Electric-type Pokémon is a lot smaller than I thought), so this ended up being really difficult to figure out. How do I not lose to hikers that spam Ground and Rock Pokémon in sand? How to I not lose to Grass spam, Lightning Rod Marowak/Rhyperior or even just Garchomp3?

I quickly decided to add Luxray, since more than ever, Intimidate felt like a must to give the team a fighting chance against hikers. I also loved the thought of scoring a KO with Volt Switch on turn 1 and sending in Luxray to allow Raichu to take a physical hit. Offensively, it was a much needed physical attacker, a rare currency for Mono Electric. I briefly considered Electivire, which would surely have hit like a truck in Electric Terrain, but more powerful Electric attacks were not what this team needed, especially on another physically frail Pokémon, so I quickly forgot the thought of it. I made sure Luxray would live Garchomp3's Earthquake and OHKO it with Ice Fang; thanks to the Aguav Berry, it would also end the encounter fairly healthy. Like Incineroar, Luxray is made so much better by 50% Berries, with Wild Charge allowing more reliable activation and a bigger pool of HP to counteract the recoil. While it's not the strongest offensively, thanks to Electric Terrain, Wild Charge did hit fairly hard.

While I considered Vikavolt as the 4th member, Rotom-Wash kind of inserted itself by making the most sense by far; Levitate has incredible value on Mono Electric, for obvious reasons, but most importantly STAB Water moves would help deal with Ground- and Rock-types offensively, something Vikavolt couldn't really achieve, even with Energy Ball. It also provided a ton of utility: a special tank (paired with Intimidate, it's a decent defensive core), speed control through Electroweb, and Ally Switch to give its partners a bit more of a fighting chance in tough spots. I was wary of using Rotom-Wash, since that meant playing the Hydro Pump roulette and eventually missing an essential one. Despite my best attempts to "bulk up" the team, it still remained pretty frail and missing a move was likely to be deadly. But my goal here was not 500 wins, but the stamp, so I thought taking my chances was fine and it worked out.

I have no recollection and no replay of how the team lost, so I can only assume it was a very frustrating battle that made me close my 3DS and want to forget that it ever happened... nevertheless, barring some good luck, I don't think Mono Electric has the potential to go very far into Tree. KokoChu can easily steamroll through a lot of trainers, but it needs support from other typings to patch up its shortcomings.

@ Choice Specs

Timid | Electric Surge
IVs: 31/4/31/30/31/30 [HP Fire] (Hyper trained to 31/4/31/31/31/31)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Thunderbolt / Dazzling Gleam / Hidden Power Fire / Volt Switch

@ Aloraichium Z

Modest | Surge Surfer
IVs: 31/18/31/31/31/31
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 236 Spe
Fake Out / Thunderbolt / Psychic / Protect

@ Aguav Berry

Adamant | Intimidate
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpDef / 180 Spe
Wild Charge / Ice Fang / Helping Hand / Protect

@ Mago Berry

Calm | Levitate
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 20 SpAtk / 180 SpDef / 52 Spe
Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Electroweb / Ally Switch

MONO BUG
Streak: 96

Bug

I was definitely nervous heading into Mono Bug teambuilding, since Bug is a typing known for being pretty bad. Fortunately, it features enough powerhouses and secondary typings to make the job manageable. Right off the gate, I thought using the Pheromosa bait/sweeper strategy was a good idea to build around, as illustrated by numerous PheroLele streaks on the leaderboard. However, without Tapu Lele's support, Pheromosa definitely needed a bit of help to stick around. Fortunately, Bug features quite a few Rage Powder users; while most of them could have been usable, Volcarona is undoubtedly the most potent of them, as it offers plenty of offensive pressure as well. Despite a 4x weakness to Rock, bulky Volcarona can live a wide array of Rock moves, which goes to show how impressive its bulk is, while Pheromosa was an ideal partner to deal with those Rock Pokémon offensively.

Much like Grass, Mono Bug has to worry about Flying- and Fire-types (especially sun teams), and while I was hoping Volcarona would help me out against Fire types, it sure wasn't going to help the Flying weakness (though I will say, this Volcarona is guaranteed to live a Talonflame4 Brave Bird!). Mega Scizor felt like a great addition as a Flying answer, since it can deal with most of them (other than Talonflame, granted). In addition, Swords Dance Scizor really benefited from Rage Powder if Pheromosa went down early, and hopefully would provide me with win conditions. The last Pokémon was originally Buzzwole, which can steamroll through teams very quickly with Tailwind support, which Volcarona provided. Z-Superpower allowed for a quick boost, and I had Stomping Tantrum to help deal with Fire types.

Despite that, I lost my first attempt at 41 (which, considering this was Mono Bug, was still above my expectations of a first attempt), singlehandedly murdered by a Chandelure. Seeing I hadn't misplayed and simply couldn't win, I knew changes were necessary to the team to better deal with Fire-types, including Chandelure; Stomping Tantrum was my only way of even hitting it! As I was about to replace Buzzwole with Armaldo, turskain came to the rescue, suggesting "C R U S T L E" (literal quote) with Shell Smash. The more I looked into the option, the better I liked it, so I set to breed a Jolly Crustle (to my disappointment, it wouldn't have hit the speed tiers it needed at +2 with Adamant... Jolly barely does). Again, this was a potential setup sweeper which benefited greatly from Volcarona's Rage Powder, and most importantly, could offensively deal with Fire-types, 2 at a time if necessary after a Shell Smash! However, Crustle really needed a Wide Lens to do its job well, so I decided to give the Z-move to Volcarona instead (which originally had a Iapapapapapa Berry - that was a really tough decision, since it had come clutch several times already), for one Fire nuke that can't miss, and also to allow using Overheat afterwards without the nasty SpAtk drop.

C R U S T L E was indeed the missing piece, it made the team really click together. I ended up getting much further than I thought possible (I was really sad to lose so close to 100!!), and while Volcarona was definitely MVP gluing the team together, they all covered each other pretty well. The team was also generally super fun to play, certainly shaky at times (Gyarados was a huge threat!), but it provided enough tools to figure out plans of action, which is a huge part of the fun.

@ Firium Z

Bold | Flame Body
IVs: 31/4/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 4 SpAtk / 20 SpDef / 4 Spe
Overheat / Rage Powder / Tailwind / Protect

@ Focus Sash

Naughty | Beast Boost
IVs: 31/31/31/31/2/30 (Hyper trained to 31/31/31/31/31/31)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Low Kick / Lunge / Ice Beam / Protect

@ Scizorite

Adamant | Technician → Technician
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 172 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpDef / 92 Spe
Bullet Punch / Bug Bite / Swords Dance / Protect

@ Wide Lens

Jolly | Sturdy
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Rock Slide / Stomping Tantrum / Shell Smash / Protect

MONO FLYING
Streak: 106

Flying

Of all the monotype teams, I think this one is by far the most solid, and had the most potential to get a long streak (maybe 500+ imo). The teambuilding process was pretty straightforward: it started with banded Landorus-T. How could I pass the opportunity to be able to Earthquake next to every partner? Landorus-T was also going to be a big help providing Intimidate and a solid offensive answer to Rock-types. But using Landorus means being paranoid about one big, common problem in Tree: Blizzard, and freezes. Landorus was obviously going to be a magnet for that, and clearly, Mono Flying won't enjoy those.

Thus, Mega Charizard Y sort of imposed itself as the partner of choice: Sun prevents freezes from happening, and Charizard can deal with Ice types offensively. The synergy doesn't stop there, Charizard's own 4x weakness, Rock, is covered by Landorus' EQs, and Charizard provides Tailwind support, which banded Lando-T needs to safely sweep (its speed tier is mediocre). In itself, I think this is a very solid frontline, but then I had to manage potential switch-ins. With no Protect on Lando, what could switch into an Ice move if Charizard cannot instantly deal with it? I liked the idea of Celesteela, since I used it on my rain team with this exact same role of an Ice-type switch-in, and it did a great job at it. Additionally, Wide Guard was certain to provide great protection against Blizzard and Rock Slide that the 2 other members were going to bait. Celesteela is also just a solid tank that can solo some teams by itself, which is never a bad thing to have around.

By adding Celesteela, I made myself weaker to Electric, and I didn't like the idea of Landorus being my only answer when it could easily be threatened out by an Ice or Water partner (Rain trainers commonly feature Electric+Water combos), so I added an Electric immunity and strong Tailwind sweeper in Thundurus-T. I can't say I was 100% convinced by that slot in theory, but it worked out in practice.

The defensive synergy of the team was surprisingly strong, with Celesteela being the obvious glue that really held the team together. I guess it shouldn't be that surprising, but the team lost to the exact same thing Mono Grass did: Blizzard Goodra. However, it was a mix of bad hax and misplaying. On a Hydreigon-Goodra lead, I went for U-turn into Hydreigon and switched Charizard to Celesteela to Wide Guard on future turns. Hydreigon went for Dragon Rush into Lando-T and flinched it, preventing the U-turn and resulting in Lando's death to Blizzard. That was frustrating hax, but I obviously shouldn't have risked it when I could have hard switched, that was greedy of me. On the switch-in, Celesteela was frozen by Blizzard, and that was the beginning of the end. Again, this is partly my fault: to prevent it, I could very well have Mega evolved Charizard turn 1 and Protected, just to set the Sun and prevent freezes, but I got lazy and didn't do it.

It makes me particularly sad to lose to a freeze when I actually put thought into preventing freezes on this particular team, only to then fail to make use of my tools. The game wasn't instantly lost there, as I could have pulled it back if Celesteela thawed, and I played my best to give it a lot of chances to thaw, but it stayed frozen the entire time and I eventually ran out of resources. That loss really hurt, because I think the team could have gotten way further, and while I got haxed out in many ways, I failed to take the proper steps to prevent that hax. The replay is at the end of the video compilation, if you're curious!

@ Charizardite Y

Timid | Blaze → Drought
IVs: 31/0/31/30/30/31 [HP Ground] (Hyper trained to 31/0/31/31/31/31)
EVs: 60 HP / 132 Def / 116 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 196 Spe
Flamethrower / Solar Beam / Tailwind / Protect

@ Choice Band

Adamant | Intimidate
IVs: 31/31/31/9/31/31
EVs: 20 HP / 228 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Earthquake / Rock Slide / Knock Off / U-turn

@ Leftovers

Careful | Beast Boost
IVs: 31/30/31/30/31/31 (Hyper trained to 31/31/31/31/31/31)
EVs: 244 HP / 28 Atk / 108 Def / 124 SpDef / 4 Spe
Heavy Slam / Leech Seed / Wide Guard / Protect

@ Electrium Z

Timid | Volt Absorb
IVs: 31/0/30/31/31/31 [HP Ice] (Hyper trained to 31/0/31/31/31/31)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Thunderbolt / Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Ice / Protect

MONO GROUND
Streak: 85

Ground

This team was by far the hardest to put together. While on the surface, Ground seems like it should be pretty good for monotype, as soon as you look to the (small) pool of available Pokémon, it becomes clear that creating synergy and covering for weaknesses is near-impossible. There are almost no useful secondary typings available, and the majority of Pokémon are painfully slow - which calls for Trick Room, except the only Trick Room setter is actually Claydol, not known to be particularly good.

For a while, going with Sand was pretty tempting, but Hippowdon is a very subpar sand setter for Doubles (outside Trick Room, it's likely to be dead weight, and would put way too much offensive weight on the shoulders of a frail Pokémon like Excadrill), and I was really struggling to find ways of not auto losing to rain teams or Xenophon (a Grass trainer). For most of my planning, Gastrodon seemed like an absolute must, so it's funny it didn't end up on the final team. After actual days of unconvincing brainstorming, ANTS came to my rescue by bringing to my attention that Claydol was not that bad of a setter by posting a calc (252+ SpA Abomasnow-Mega Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Claydol: 134-158 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage). This made seriously consider Trick Room for the first time, and was the start of this team.

Using Trick Room with Mono Ground, I wasn't going to pass any opportunity to have an advantage, so using the best Trick Room Mega in Camerupt seemed like a no-brainer. Gastrodon was going to complete the lineup, but I felt uneasy about having only special attackers - how could I ever break through Blissey? I can't rely on Phanpy being around when it comes out necessarily. Moreover, Gastrodon is weak without Storm Drain boosts, not great when you're under pressure to sweep quickly before Trick Room expires, because there's no way Claydol sticks around long enough to set it twice. Torterra caught my attention as an alternative way to deal with Water types, and provide Wide Guard support, which sounded amazing given it would draw Blizzards (while Camerupt would draw Earthquakes, too). That certainly came in extremely clutch (if you don't believe Wide Guard is worth a moveslot, please look at the second battle of the replay compilation!). I love Torterra and find very few occasions to use it, so I jumped on this one and tried it out. As much as I would have loved a Ground STAB on it, levitating Pokémon like the Latis, and Flying types like Salamence and Dragonite were a big problem, since Ancient Power was unlikely to suffice. Rock Slide being weak from spread penalty, I went all-in with the Z-move, and it definitely served its purpose along the way.

Now, let's address the elephant in the room... (sorry, too tempting)! Phanpy? Originally, I thought I found a gem in Phanpy; what better way to cheese my way through 50 Tree battles than having a FEAR team, a tried and proven archetype? Phanpy gets both Endeavor and Sturd... wait, what? It doesn't get Sturdy?? Only Donphan does? Well that's... very unfortunate. At that point, the team took a bad turn: I thought a low level Donphan with a minimal HP IV could probably do the baiting job, and I could run a Custap Berry for a more reliable Endeavor. SadisticMystic informed me I could get a level 24 Donphan though DexNav in ORAS (it normally evolves at 25), so I set out to do that, and it took a few hours. A wasted few hours, I would later discover, as my first few runs taught me the Custap Berry was almost never useful, and I ended up having to Endeavor things from full HP way too often, which meant Claydol couldn't finish them up and the FEAR combo worked very poorly. Donphan's best feat was setting the Sun for Camerupt on its way out. Eventually, I realized Sturdy wasn't that important, and I could just Sash a Phanpy instead for a more proper FEAR combo; it would simply have less longevity than a regular Sturdy+Berry Juice one. That change made the team 10x better instantly, and propelled it to a respectable 85!

Now, as has been documented already, baiting isn't particularly reliable in Gen 7 compared to Gen 6, and with Claydol not being the bulkiest setter, this team was bound to fall apart eventually. The streak was ended by Waterium Z Slowking targeting Claydol rather than Phanpy turn 1 and preventing Trick Room. With Politoed by its side, and Scarf Machamp with Ice Punch in the back, I was definitely caught in a pinch. Politoed3 flinched Phanpy with Waterfall and prevented my Endeavor, which would have allowed me to pick up the KO with Ice Shard while Torterra outsped and OHKOd Slowking. I may have had a fighting chance without that flinch, but it was still probably too much of an uphill battle. In any case, I'm just happy I was able to make a Mono Ground team work and get this far, because this was incredibly challenging!

@ Lum Berry

Sassy | Levitate
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpDef
Trick Room / Psychic / Ice Beam / Protect

@ Focus Sash

Brave | Pickup | Level 1
IVs: 7/31/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 Atk
Endeavor / Ice Shard / Sunny Day / Protect

@ Cameruptite

Quiet | Solid Rock → Sheer Force
IVs: 31/1/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpAtk
Eruption / Earth Power / Ancient Power / Protect

@ Rockium Z

Brave | Overgrow
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
EVs: 236 HP / 244 Atk / 28 SpDef
Wood Hammer / Rock Slide / Wide Guard / Protect

MONO ROCK
Streak: 70

Rock

Alongside Grass, this team is the one I'm the proudest of. Not unlike Ground, Rock was pretty difficult to build with. It does feature a few Trick Room setters, including a reliable one in Carbink, and another that doubles as one of the best sweepers in Stakataka. Factor in a myriad of good Trick Room sweepers like Gigalith, Rhyperior, Golem, Sudowoodo (yes, it's actually pretty good in Trick Room!) or Carracosta and surely things will work out, right?

Well, they didn't. I tried several times, with many teams (5 I think?) and strategies, and they all failed, most of them struggling to even reach 25 wins. The issue was not setting Trick Room reliably or a lack of power, it was finding ways to position myself properly, and beat disadvantageous matchups like bulky Water Pokémon or opposing hikers with their Ground and Rock-types (how do I beat a Stamina Mudsdale with Mono Rock??). With pretty much my entire team weak to Fighting, Steel, Grass, Water and Ground, I could never safely switch in one of my sweepers, and the Tree has plenty of those moves to work with, so I had to wait for free switches if I was stuck in a position where I could do little damage, while my Trick Room slowly expired. Carbink is incredibly passive, having no offensive presence, and its mediocre speed tier made it move last in Trick Room, preventing Gravity -> Stone Edge combos on turn 2 that as may have liked. It sat there and put the pressure of all damage on its partner until it died - it got to a point where I considered putting Explosion on it (but I don't think it would have been that good, as it puts unrealistic pressure to sweep in basically 2 turns on the rest of the team). Don't get me wrong, Carbink is usually a very decent setter, but in the context where it shared weaknesses with the rest of the team, preventing me from switching to my backline sweepers, it really couldn't contribute as good as it usually would have.

Growing frustrated of failed attempts, I decided to switch things up entirely and to go fast Tailwind mode. I threw together a quick mix of what few fast Rock types there are, and ended up with Archeops / Mega Tyranitar / Terrakion / Omastar. Ok, Omastar isn't fast, but it's a rain set made to sweep with Swift Swim... Tailwind is just like Swift Swim, right? To my surprise, the team did really well, I'm pretty sure it reached the 40s on its first attempt, outshining every Trick Room run thus far. Clearly, Tailwind was the way for Rock. I looked into potential improvements, and Aerodactyl quickly stood out, with a better speed tier as a Tailwind setter than Archeops, and more importantly, Sky Drop to allow a free turn of setup for its partner. How fitting that Mega Tyranitar can be EVed to outslow Aerodactyl by 1 point at +1! That made it possible to Sky Drop a fast target and Dragon Dance on a turn, and double target that Pokémon on the following turn before it got to move. More than a circumstantial gimmick, that combo carried the team hard, it worked really well in a lot of situations (thanks to Mega Tyranitar's incredible bulk, obviously).

Mega Tyranitar over the regular one helped not only with the speed, but also with keeping weather under control by resetting sand, which gave me a much easier edge against threatening Rain teams. Terrakion's Fighting type was extremely clutch to deal with Steel types that were otherwise a big problem, while Omastar, a much needed special attacker, dealt with Ground-types, and could also nuke a lot of things with the Z-move

Fighting types definitely threaten the team the most, as Tyranitar cannot hit them for much, and Sky Drop is a weak move when used for damage (also, incredibly annoying is the fact Virizion weights the exact number needed to not be Sky Droppable... don't pretend like that's not on purpose, Game Freak!! >:(). I could usually get through a couple of Fighting types, but full Fighting teams were quite the challenge, and as a result, that's pretty much what I lost to (if you count Scarf Tsareena locking into High Jump Kick as a Fighting-type, anyway...).

I definitely wouldn't claim the team to be super solid (but it's made of Rock!!?!), but it was enjoyable for sure, and a nice change of pace since this was my first time using Sky Drop in the Tree (this convinced me it certainly has some untapped potential).

@ Focus Sash

Jolly | Unnerve
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Tailwind / Rock Slide / Sky Drop / Protect

@ Tyranitarite

Jolly | Sand Stream → Sand Stream
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpDef / 236 Spe
Rock Slide / Crunch / Dragon Dance / Protect

@ Wide Lens

Jolly | Justified
IVs: 31/31/31/5/31/31
EVs: 84 HP / 164 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Close Combat / Rock Slide / Stomping Tantrum / Protect

@ Waterium Z

Modest | Swift Swim
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 236 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Scald / Ice Beam / Earth Power / Protect

 

[Jumpman16]

If not for the genuinely brilliant and creative teams players like Jumpman16 came up with, I wouldn't have been inspired to play any of this postgame stuff at all, and the community has clearly regressed since then to a chummy, circlejerk type of environment where only the people who post in Discord often enough have their opinions considered valid.

Ironic.

This is the first time in years you've had anything remotely positive to say about me or anyone else in seemingly years. If you actually wonder why the community has regressed, it has everything to do with posts like this, where you literally discourage and invalidate the brilliance, creativity and efforts of anyone else.

GG Unit, you have been a detriment to this community.

You have discouraged users like me from actually trying by being an taciturn moving target. And you have discouraged the posting of our community with years of petty, mean-spirited belittlement and criticism.

Why do you think Level 51 just went in on you so hard?

And why do you think I disappeared?

Even when I questioned the gameplay of Vizually for savestating, you went out of your way to be a conversation-killer:

"Not really worth that much discussion other than it's obviously fake."

Not only does this kind of rhetoric kill discussion, it missed the point, one that Altissimo and ReptoAbysmal gladly expounded upon. And even further, the irony here is that what you dismissed has actually occurred right under "our" noses here:

Someone on the leaderboard with a remarkable streak savestated his or her progress. And it is ironic that you of all people, someone who loves criticizing teams and generally knocking posters down a peg, have missed it.

(I'm probably not going to out the offending poster. I've known about the savestating for a long time, and a new generation is upon us tomorrow. Chalk it up as one of many things I haven't posted here, even though I've wanted to.)

Unchecked savestating is enough to keep would-be community members from playing and contributing. But what baffles me most about you, GG Unit, is how you would so brazenly decide to be a moving target the second you got to #1, after I expressed how discouraging that was when TDP did it in the Battle Maison. It is as though you, by going months at a time without posting your progress when you got to the top, decided to discourage anyone would dare challenge you to deal with the same "torture" I detailed in that post.

So, take it as personally as you want to, but your moving-target streak has not mattered to me one bit. When you went out of your way last gen to affect the weirdest flex ever on VaporeonIce and me, trying to prove that your beloved Chansey was better than Suicune and his slightly different Chansey on our respective, soon-to-be-2,000-win teams, I knew what was more important to you. When you decided to be a taciturn moving target for much of this generation in the Tree, I knew what was more important to you.

And if it is more important for you to discourage users and contribute to the regression of this community, keep doing what you've been doing. And people will either leave this community, or not want to post. But if you're more interested in uplifting our community, you can decide to engage the way you used to, generations ago.

I hope that Sword and Shield breathes new life into this community, and that all our users, new and old, will be encouraged to contribute positively to the community. And while I've saved quite a bit of time not caring about the BT for the past year or so, I've missed it, and have missed this community more. I miss not posting. I miss the days where people weren't moving targets, and where people didn't savestate to pass off streaks as legit. If you're going to be a part of this community, don't be a part of the problem.

 

[EeveeTrainer]

/thread

 

[turskain]

Unchecked savestating is enough to keep would-be community members from playing and contributing. But what baffles me most about you, GG Unit, is how you would so brazenly decide to be a moving target the second you got to #1, after I expressed how discouraging that was when TDP did it in the Battle Maison. It is as though you, by going months at a time without posting your progress when you got to the top, decided to discourage anyone would dare challenge you to deal with the same "torture" I detailed in that post.

So, take it as personally as you want to, but your moving-target streak has not mattered to me one bit. When you went out of your way last gen to affect the weirdest flex ever on VaporeonIce and me, trying to prove that your beloved Chansey was better than Suicune and his slightly different Chansey on our respective, soon-to-be-2,000-win teams, I knew what was more important to you. When you decided to be a taciturn moving target for much of this generation in the Tree, I knew what was more important to you.

Re: moving targets, or streak parking as I call it, I don't think this trend is anyone's fault specifically but a result of a combination of factors. There are still many parked streaks of unknown length and status on the Maison Triples leaderboards for instance, and in both Singles and Doubles right now for Tree.

I do agree on it being less than ideal and adding uncertainty to leaderboard listings - but in practice, is requiring users to finish their streaks and report on a final number eventually something we can expect to realistically enforce? If users get bored, disappear, or simply stop playing and never return to their streaks they've already grinded enough for or just play at a slow pace, the main solutions I see are to either not include ongoing streaks to the leaderboards - or include them on a board but continue marking them as ongoing/parked indefinitely. The former doesn't seem workable to me since many streaks today legitimately have gone on for years, and not because of unsportsmanlike conduct on the player's part - if these are not listed then right now not only would GG Unit's streak not be listed, but HeadsILoseTailsYouWin's second-place ongoing streak would also be ineligible, even though Tree season is about to close already.

My idea for how to tackle streak parking in 8th gen - assuming that streaks still exist in the game - is to have separate leaderboards: one for finished streaks as the main leaderboard, and a second one consisting entirely of ongoing streaks as sort of a "waiting list" to encourage posting and list ongoing long-term streaks for interest and team/streak indexing, but retain a separation between the two and hopefully encourage players to "officialize" their streaks for the finished streaks listing. Obviously this is just a change in presentation - but I don't see streak parking going anywhere after its prominence in the 6th and 7th generations, unless the way people play facilities somehow changes in a big way resulting in more playing even on very long streaks and streaks being finished sooner.

 

[Jumpman16]

Peterko tried separating finished and unfinished streaks in Gen IV (without telling anyone beforehand), and it didn't go over very well.

If you are at the top of the leaderboard, I feel you are obligated to post your status with some semblance of regularity. GG Unit didn't post an update on his #1 streak for 16 months from March 2017 to July 2018. You posted consistent updates on your massive Triples streak, and were playing Singles and Doubles too and posting those as well.

Think about how your progress may have been different if you'd seen "-FG-, (4,500*)" or "brakerider, (3,500*)" for months and months while you were at 2,000 or 3,000. While streak parking may only affect a small subset of our community, it affects the play of all players at the top with active streaks.

 

[turskain]

I didn't know Peterko had tried it before - with the system I'm working on for leaderboard management (mostly automated generation and formatting from a spreadsheet source), moving between united and separate leaderboards for various things will be very simple depending on how it's received. Requiring updates to ongoing streaks every few months could definitely be a reasonable rule, that is a great idea to consider - maybe for top 3 streaks that could be required, even if said update is that the number is still the same.

 

[GG Unit]

Ironic.

This is the first time in years you've had anything remotely positive to say about me or anyone else in seemingly years. If you actually wonder why the community has regressed, it has everything to do with posts like this, where you literally discourage and invalidate the brilliance, creativity and efforts of anyone else.

GG Unit, you have been a detriment to this community.

You have discouraged users like me from actually trying by being an taciturn moving target. And you have discouraged the posting of our community with years of petty, mean-spirited belittlement and criticism.

Why do you think Level 51 just went in on you so hard?

And why do you think I disappeared?

Even when I questioned the gameplay of Vizually for savestating, you went out of your way to be a conversation-killer:

"Not really worth that much discussion other than it's obviously fake."

Not only does this kind of rhetoric kill discussion, it missed the point, one that Altissimo and ReptoAbysmal gladly expounded upon. And even further, the irony here is that what you dismissed has actually occurred right under "our" noses here:

Someone on the leaderboard with a remarkable streak savestated his or her progress. And it is ironic that you of all people, someone who loves criticizing teams and generally knocking posters down a peg, have missed it.

(I'm probably not going to out the offending poster. I've known about the savestating for a long time, and a new generation is upon us tomorrow. Chalk it up as one of many things I haven't posted here, even though I've wanted to.)

Unchecked savestating is enough to keep would-be community members from playing and contributing. But what baffles me most about you, GG Unit, is how you would so brazenly decide to be a moving target the second you got to #1, after I expressed how discouraging that was when TDP did it in the Battle Maison. It is as though you, by going months at a time without posting your progress when you got to the top, decided to discourage anyone would dare challenge you to deal with the same "torture" I detailed in that post.

So, take it as personally as you want to, but your moving-target streak has not mattered to me one bit. When you went out of your way last gen to affect the weirdest flex ever on VaporeonIce and me, trying to prove that your beloved Chansey was better than Suicune and his slightly different Chansey on our respective, soon-to-be-2,000-win teams, I knew what was more important to you. When you decided to be a taciturn moving target for much of this generation in the Tree, I knew what was more important to you.

And if it is more important for you to discourage users and contribute to the regression of this community, keep doing what you've been doing. And people will either leave this community, or not want to post. But if you're more interested in uplifting our community, you can decide to engage the way you used to, generations ago.

I hope that Sword and Shield breathes new life into this community, and that all our users, new and old, will be encouraged to contribute positively to the community. And while I've saved quite a bit of time not caring about the BT for the past year or so, I've missed it, and have missed this community more. I miss not posting. I miss the days where people weren't moving targets, and where people didn't savestate to pass off streaks as legit. If you're going to be a part of this community, don't be a part of the problem.

I'm at 4375. It's not a 'moving target,' I posted a stream a couple months ago of some battles up to 4276 (genuinely unsure if you saw the post because the thread only updates multiples of 1000) and obviously haven't played a whole bunch since then. If I need to post a weekly update on how long my streak is or something that's fine (hell, it's fine if someone wants to create a separate, better leaderboard for good boys and girls who play and post about Pokemon on a more regular basis as it doesn't change anything about the team I'm using), but in my experience nobody even watches battle videos (and I can't blame them for how slow the videos play or how unwieldy it is to skip around when most of the battle is just Moody stalling) so I don't see much point in spamming the thread with 'I'm now at XXXX' updates even if I happen across a battle that's somewhat interesting or funny to me. To me that seemed like the point of why the leaderboard only gets updated for multiples of 1000 in the first place.

Also I wouldn't characterize using Chansey as a 'weird flex' - it was about the closest thing to an actual experiment that can be done where you hold a bunch of stuff constant (I even kept the same nature/EVs as VaporeonIce's Chansey when it seemed pretty clear that more Speed would be better) and try something new, and I was glad to be able to show people who might have considered learning to RNG and buying an older game to capture a flawless legendary too high a barrier to entry for getting a long streak a more accessible version of your team that could achieve at least a comparable level of success. If having the audacity to actually try to test out whether another Pokemon or moveset could be more optimal than what someone else was running is considered an attack or whatever, that's pretty much exactly the mindset I was talking about in the first place that just leads to a bunch of fossilized 'conventional wisdom' that never gets challenged. I would love if someone found some tweak(s) that would make my Glalie team better; I haven't changed it since initially theorymonning it, and while I've spent a bit of time thinking through other options it's far more likely I've just come across something 'good enough' and have some mental blind spots blocking me from finding something better than it is that there's no possible way to improve it.

I could probably guess who you're referring to re: savestating, and my response would be the same reason why I responded in kind to your question about Vizually - people putting forth hacked streaks is just a low-level form of trolling/attention-seeking behavior that in most cases does not need to be dignified with a response. It's like trying to debate about global warming - the people on one side of it have no intention of actually proving they're correct and are simply happy to obfuscate things enough to make a few of the more easily confused people say "hmm it seems like there's some back-and-forth here so I guess there's no way of knowing who's right." If it gets to the level where unwitting people would try to copy such a team because it looks unique/fun/hyper-offensive or whatever and I'm confident enough that even someone looking up sets and making damage calcs would fall flat on their face using it, then I'm more likely to say something for those players' sake. I'm certainly fine with the suggestion that I've erred on the side of being too lenient because as far as I see it, there's been at least a few times I put myself in a position to look extremely foolish if someone were to rack up some more wins with their team and/or post a single battle video where they maybe overcame some hax or something. By and large, though, those people tend to take their ball and go home.

 

[Eppie]

Hi,

I would like to respond to the debating which I've read on the last few pages of this awesome thread regarding unfinished streaks at the top of the leader board and the community not knowing by how many battles this unfinished streak may or may not have advanced.
My very own streak may have been up there the longest without any of you knowing where I am currently at since march this year.

And I would like to apologize for that.

Mainly to Eisenherz and Josh C. as this may have affected them in their own road to the top (congratulations to both of you, really awesome work you guys put up there!) but also to anyone else who feels like this is unfair to other player who aim for the #1 spot. I completely agree with the arguments I have been reading today and if I were in the 2.000+ range not knowing if the person holding the record is at 2.500, 3.000 or even higher, it would pressure me in an unhealthy way.

I didn't update my streak to keep you in the dark but because I didn't advance it. Between march and april I did a handful of battles so I am a little higher than 2.220 but I know I didn't reach 2.300. I took a hiatus from the game and didn't bother to mention this, I took this hiatus because the game took control over my life (I am very sensitive to this). I feel like I have control over my personal life now and while I do miss this game and the community I am unaware if I will be coming back for generation 8 but I guess not.

It has never been my intention to keep anyone in the dark and I should have posted about this back in april when I kinda figured out for myself I wasn't going to advance it. Therefor I think it would be best to list my streak as finished for the record.

I wish you all good fortune and a lot of fun in the generation 8 adaption of the Battle Tree, or this one.

With kind regards,

Eppie

 

[NoCheese]

I'm sorry for the acrimony of late. It's especially unfortunate because basically everybody involved in the recent bad blood has substantially inspired/instructed/motivated me during my time in this little "battle facilities" corner of Smogon, and I hate to see ill-feelings on an endeavor that, though absolutely competitive, has always maintained a collegial feel here. Naturally, putting together a massive streak and getting to share/brag about it feels great, but it also feels really good to see someone else find big success, regardless of whether it pushes down my rank on the leaderboard. And we really do want to make sure that our discussions, though firm on fair play, hard truths, and sound advice, are nonetheless welcoming. The community isn't big enough to survive splintering or driving away those who come here in good faith.

I like turskain's suggestion of a split "active streaks" list, though given the earlier failure of Peterko's experiment in this area, may be best to make it a clear rule at the start of a generation. I'm also intrigued by turskain's automated leaderboard management. Especially deep in a generation, manual updating can be a huge pain, as one has to adjust the place numbers for a ton of streaks.

[Discussion of passing torch on new thread snipped as new thread is already going! Thanks turskain!!!]

I've updated the leaderboard. As always, yell at me if you spot any errors or omissions!

 

[GG Unit]

Hi,

I would like to respond to the debating which I've read on the last few pages of this awesome thread regarding unfinished streaks at the top of the leader board and the community not knowing by how many battles this unfinished streak may or may not have advanced.
My very own streak may have been up there the longest without any of you knowing where I am currently at since march this year.

And I would like to apologize for that.

Mainly to Eisenherz and Josh C. as this may have affected them in their own road to the top (congratulations to both of you, really awesome work you guys put up there!) but also to anyone else who feels like this is unfair to other player who aim for the #1 spot. I completely agree with the arguments I have been reading today and if I were in the 2.000+ range not knowing if the person holding the record is at 2.500, 3.000 or even higher, it would pressure me in an unhealthy way.

I didn't update my streak to keep you in the dark but because I didn't advance it. Between march and april I did a handful of battles so I am a little higher than 2.220 but I know I didn't reach 2.300. I took a hiatus from the game and didn't bother to mention this, I took this hiatus because the game took control over my life (I am very sensitive to this). I feel like I have control over my personal life now and while I do miss this game and the community I am unaware if I will be coming back for generation 8 but I guess not.

It has never been my intention to keep anyone in the dark and I should have posted about this back in april when I kinda figured out for myself I wasn't going to advance it. Therefor I think it would be best to list my streak as finished for the record.

I wish you all good fortune and a lot of fun in the generation 8 adaption of the Battle Tree, or this one.

With kind regards,

Eppie

Yeah, this all seems like a bit of projection to assume that someone doesn't update their streak for gamesmanship reasons rather than because they just got bored and/or wanted to have more of a social life (especially coming from someone who posted nothing this gen but a single battle video while expecting everyone to guess at movesets/natures/EVs). I stopped for a few months when I was at like triple the next-highest listed streak, and then when I got the itch to play again my 3DS had a broken screen when I turned it on, so it took me a while longer until a friend let me use his to continue. It's not like I was being coy about how long my streak was if anyone asked either - hell, I was #2 on the leaderboard for a while despite posting on Discord in summer '18 that I was at 2500+ straight; that's not a massive injustice or anything, I just decided to stay consistent with only updating every 1000 or after a loss and that if it meant that much for HeadsILoseTailsYouWin to be at #1 for a while even when he very well knew I had a longer streak than him, it was no skin off my nose.

Once your team is good past a certain point, the marginal value of an extra win when you've already gotten enough BP for 999 Rare Candies or whatever pales in comparison to the fun in coming up with the team in its first place and seeing the contingency plans for certain threats work out just as you anticipated. When using a team like that, you're more likely to lose (by many orders of magnitude) because of some brainfart that occurred while trying to grind out too many battles or a hardware failure (especially for my team, where due to bad Moody boosts giving any battle the possibility of lasting 10+ minutes I didn't dare to play without being plugged in after an initial scare where I completed a battle and got the game saved like 10 seconds before I ran out of battery) than because you ran across the exact combination of opposing Pokemon and hax that counters your team. The main reason I posted my Glalie team (and a QR code for it) before I even started using the team myself is that it seemed to be by far the safest method for getting a long streak this generation, and if someone who were more committed to grinding it than me got a higher streak I'd consider it an accomplishment for the community as a whole rather than trying to retroactively trying to split up the leaderboards so I could stay #1 on some technicality.

 

[GG Unit]

I'm sorry for the acrimony of late. It's especially unfortunate because basically everybody involved in the recent bad blood has substantially inspired/instructed/motivated me during my time in this little "battle facilities" corner of Smogon, and I hate to see ill-feelings on an endeavor that, though absolutely competitive, has always maintained a collegial feel here. Naturally, putting together a massive streak and getting to share/brag about it feels great, but it also feels really good to see someone else find big success, regardless of whether it pushes down my rank on the leaderboard. And we really do want to make sure that our discussions, though firm on fair play, hard truths, and sound advice, are nonetheless welcoming. The community isn't big enough to survive splintering or driving away those who come here in good faith.

I like turskain's suggestion of a split "active streaks" list, though given the earlier failure of Peterko's experiment in this area, may be best to make it a clear rule at the start of a generation. I'm also intrigued by turskain's automated leaderboard management. Especially deep in a generation, manual updating can be a huge pain, as one has to adjust the place numbers for a ton of streaks.

[Discussion of passing torch on new thread snipped as new thread is already going! Thanks turskain!!!]

I've updated the leaderboard. As always, yell at me if you spot any errors or omissions!

No, it's weird that you consider this any particular amount of 'acrimony' rather than a healthy level of debate. It's ironic that you would seek to use the Peterko reasoning for how to divide up the leaderboards since as an objective person who had no dog in the fight looking back on it, that was just pure sour grapes reasoning ineffectually trying to diminish the streak of someone who had used a better team and hadn't lost yet with it. I asked you if it would be better to use Bulldoze rather than Earthquake on Gliscor (or to use a Trickscarf lead) and I hope you at least considered those helpful suggestions that would lead to you getting a longer streak rather than simply dismissing them as a 'weird flex' or breach of 'collegiality' where I should've just said "wow man that was so epic, there's no way you possibly could've done any better than that."

 

[NoCheese]

No, it's weird that you consider this any particular amount of 'acrimony' rather than a healthy level of debate. It's ironic that you would seek to use the Peterko reasoning for how to divide up the leaderboards since as an objective person who had no dog in the fight looking back on it, that was just pure sour grapes reasoning ineffectually trying to diminish the streak of someone who had used a better team and hadn't lost yet with it. I asked you if it would be better to use Bulldoze rather than Earthquake on Gliscor (or to use a Trickscarf lead) and I hope you at least considered those helpful suggestions that would lead to you getting a longer streak rather than simply dismissing them as a 'weird flex' or breach of 'collegiality' where I should've just said "wow man that was so epic, there's no way you possibly could've done any better than that."

I'm confused by your reference to your Bulldoze Gliscor recommendation. I liked your suggestion when you made it. I posted that I was intrigued by the suggestion. I still am. Definitely didn't see your advice there as uncollegial or rude, and indeed, it was exactly the kind of response that I love, and that makes this community great. But your posts of late seem to be not merely uncollegial, but also actively seeking reasons to take offense at seemingly minor action or inaction by the rest of us. I fear you are seeing veiled hostility in places where it certainly wasn't intended, and responding with hostility of a more overt type. This is unfortunate. You've contributed a lot. I've certainly learned plenty from you. But your recent posts have moved in a toxic direction, and have jumped to unjustified conclusions about people's motivations and intentions, especially towards you. This is a real shame. You're better than that.

 

[insanemaniac]

I miss triples

 

[Mattlau04]

I'm not exactly sure where you need to post your record so i'm gonna assume it's here
I recently lost my old streak at the 354th battle while replaying ultra sun
i was using this team: https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/5p8rbv I have the video of the losing battle, but nothing to record it :/ (but apparently pictures are fine so i hope this will do)

i hope the battle tree will still get some love after the release of Sw/Sh :)

 

[Mattlau04]

oh wow that's a huge reddit preiew

 

[SadisticMystic]

With the imminent closure of the PGL, I'm fairly certain that it will no longer be possible to search for QR rental teams on their site, or to generate the actual QR codes that will allow you to use those teams yourself. However, the actual process of decoding the team doesn't require any online connection once you have it. If there are still any QR teams you've thought about using but haven't had the chance to yet, stock up and save all the codes while you can, before it's too late.

 

[GG Unit]

I'm confused by your reference to your Bulldoze Gliscor recommendation. I liked your suggestion when you made it. I posted that I was intrigued by the suggestion. I still am. Definitely didn't see your advice there as uncollegial or rude, and indeed, it was exactly the kind of response that I love, and that makes this community great. But your posts of late seem to be not merely uncollegial, but also actively seeking reasons to take offense at seemingly minor action or inaction by the rest of us. I fear you are seeing veiled hostility in places where it certainly wasn't intended, and responding with hostility of a more overt type. This is unfortunate. You've contributed a lot. I've certainly learned plenty from you. But your recent posts have moved in a toxic direction, and have jumped to unjustified conclusions about people's motivations and intentions, especially towards you. This is a real shame. You're better than that.

It should be pretty obvious - in what Jumpman considered a 'weird flex' I at least went through the requisite number of battles to get a better idea than what anyone else had as to how the team actually worked; contrast that to my teams where the only criticisms are moronic stuff from people who hardly put any time into trying the team such as "durr I don't have the time to wait until every single stat gets boosted to +6" or "durr I don't know common game mechanics and can't even win 50 straight with this team." As far as what you'd consider 'collegial,' I don't place much weight on that word as you (and many others) have made it clear that I could suggest something in any tone and regardless of how 'nice' it sounded, it wouldn't have actually persuaded you to try something different. Like what does it matter how much you learned from me if you're still using the same team I would've discarded several years ago? It makes no difference to me whether your doing that is due to overt hostility or simple ignorance (in fact it's far more likely to be the latter, which makes the whole notion where I'm misjudging people's intentions that much more nonsensical), but it's dumb and counterproductive either way.

 

[p53oscar]

Hello everyone, im trying to reach 50 wins on IA with a Cinthia. Their pkmn are a Mega-Lucario and a Milotic, and i saw it qork quite good with my Mega-Metagross and Garchomp. But i cant pass more than 35 wins. Anyone can help a bit? I think Metagross worked good cause the Lucario dont attack with iron moves, but cant think for a second pkmn, as a Greninja (which worked good in the past) doesnt fit cause the water type like the Milotic. Thanks for any further help!

 

[Worldie]

Hello everyone, im trying to reach 50 wins on IA with a Cinthia. Their pkmn are a Mega-Lucario and a Milotic, and i saw it qork quite good with my Mega-Metagross and Garchomp. But i cant pass more than 35 wins. Anyone can help a bit? I think Metagross worked good cause the Lucario dont attack with iron moves, but cant think for a second pkmn, as a Greninja (which worked good in the past) doesnt fit cause the water type like the Milotic. Thanks for any further help!

I am afraid that lead combo is not going to work. You stack both a fire and ground weakness, meaning that any sun or sand trainer you'll run in will more or less either kill both or force you to hardswap.
On top of Earthquake being very common and there being several scarfers or just faster Pokemon that run it or Heat Wave / eruption in higher tiers of tree.

You'll need a differ lead, definitely.

 

[p53oscar]

I am afraid that lead combo is not going to work. You stack both a fire and ground weakness, meaning that any sun or sand trainer you'll run in will more or less either kill both or force you to hardswap.
On top of Earthquake being very common and there being several scarfers or just faster Pokemon that run it or Heat Wave / eruption in higher tiers of tree.

You'll need a differ lead, definitely.

I have thought about this 2 options as leads:

Salamence

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor

It was taken from an old team, it worked quite good, but i'm thinking to change substitute for protect. However, the low % on the attacks doesn't make it the best option probably.

Greninja

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse

The Greninja has been in aprox 95% comps I tried on the singles and doubles strikes, so I feel quite comfortable with. As Salamence, I also think is not probbaly the best option in this case. I thought about any other pokemons, but can't find any options by the moment...

 

[Worldie]

Salamence is a fine lead, but you're probably better off with a regular Hyper voice / double edge / flamethrower / protect version if you're just goingto try and strike 50 wins.