Battle Tree Discussion and Records

So I've been wondering- Why does everyone use Minimize on Chansey/Blissey? I know it boosts evasion more than Double Team, but the weakness to Heavy Slam/Dragon Rush/Flying Press etc seems like it might make Double Team better even if it takes twice as long to set up.
 
So I've been wondering- Why does everyone use Minimize on Chansey/Blissey? I know it boosts evasion more than Double Team, but the weakness to Heavy Slam/Dragon Rush/Flying Press etc seems like it might make Double Team better even if it takes twice as long to set up.
You switch out.

Heavy Slam and Dragon Rush can be safely handled by a partner Steel-type, and while Flying Press is admittedly an annoyance, only Hawlucha runs the move, so it's an unlikely threat.

(and if your Steel-type is Aegislash, not even that can threaten you)
 
You switch out.

Heavy Slam and Dragon Rush can be safely handled by a partner Steel-type, and while Flying Press is admittedly an annoyance, only Hawlucha runs the move, so it's an unlikely threat.

(and if your Steel-type is Aegislash, not even that can threaten you)
Okay, but if you are planning on switching out of anything that poses a real threat to chansey anyway, what does it matter whether you boost evasion one stage or two? The point of raised evasion on chansey to to dodge status effects/physical moves presumably, but you would never switch it in on a physical attack and you have natural cure for status moves, so the only real reason you want the evasion boosting in general would be to set up in case you don't have a hard counter for whatever comes in next, so it makes the most sense to set up in a way that doesn't expose you to extra damage. Since Toxic takes 6 turns to kill if you aren't hitting with Flamethrower or whatever, doesn't it make the most sense to be prepared for any possibility?


Edit: Looking at actual sets, Dhelmise-1 has Heavy Slam and Shadow Claw, so going to Aegislash might open you up to getting hit bad, and Mudsdale-4 has Heavy Slam with Earthquake, Golurk-1 has Bulldoze and Shadow Punch, Wailord-1 has a Curse/Rest set with Heavy Slam, so really only the Aggron-3 is a safe switch-in for Aegislash overall.

Hydreigon-2 has Dragon Rush and Fire Blast, which probably hits the other two pokemon on your team super effectively if you are running a standard Dragon/Steel defensive core.
M-Altaria-3 is even worse, because it is fairy to ignore Dragon and it might DD up on the switch to Aegis then hit with EQ. The M-Charizard-X-4 set has Dragon Rush with Flare Blitz and Dragon Dance, creating another no-win situation. Flygon-4 has Dragon Rush and EQ. M-Salamence-4 has Dragon Rush With both Crunch and Earthquake. Hydreigon-4 has EQ and Crunch.

There's also a Calm Mind Uxie that has Extrasensory as its attacking move, and that move also hits for double and never misses on minimize. An Azelf set also has Charge Beam with Extrasensory, and there's a Greninja set with Dark Pulse and Blizzard, which seems pretty scary if you don't have a scarfer in the wings. Then there's a Typhlosion set with Inferno and WoW, and getting burned is definitely a bad time.

Then for Body Slam, there's a Goodra with Outrage and Earthquake and a Fissure/Earthquake/Crunch Snorlax

Given how many pokemon hit steels super-effectively with the second hit, don't you think avoiding those hits is a good enough reason to swap to Double Team?
 
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Psynergy

Fighting defines me, and I will not lose.
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The Heavy Slam/Dragon Rush/similar Pokemon aren't enough to make Minimize worse than Double Team I think. While there are relevant sets utilizing these moves, the AI doesn't recognize the damage boost these moves give against a Minimize Pokemon and seemingly only use them when the move is the strongest option against you anyway (they do, however, seem to prioritize using Z-Moves on you after you Minimize). For example, Charizard-4 has never Dragon Rushed my Minimize Chansey because Flare Blitz is a stronger move, but Snorlax-4 Body Slams and Hawlucha Flying Presses me because those are obviously the strongest they have anyway. Extrasensory is a non factor since that does literally no damage to you and is only a problem if they flinch constantly, and Greninja doesn't even use Extrasensory against Chansey.

The only Heavy Slam Pokemon that are relevant later on are Mudsdale-4 and Aggron-3, you will always switch against Aggron because you can't touch it, while Mudsdale won't even Heavy Slam you because Close Combat and Earthquake do more damage normally, so those two alone aren't a major concern. Relevant Dragon Rushers are the aforementioned Charizard-4 and Aggron-3, Altaria-3 (never seen this but it'd probably just Giga Impact or DD), Flygon-4 (might EQ instead but lolFlygon), Dragonite-4, Salamence-4 (Giga Impact) and Hydreigon-4 (this might prioritize Dragon Tail but lol phys Hydreigon). These are more dangerous but those that will Dragon Rush you are easy switches into Aegislash (which you will probably use with this Chansey), which can then King's Shield and just give you an easy switch back into Chansey if necessary. Not many Body Slam Pokemon and the only two dangerous ones are the aforementioned Snorlax-4 and Lickilicky-3, which again are easy for Aegislash to beat and the latter may attempt Hammer Arm anyway (Fissure can be a problem but that's easily covered with a Flying mon).

I think an argument for Double Team could be made, but I think the much faster setup rate with Minimize against everything else outweighs that benefit and most of the moves that are threatening when using Minimize have not been a significant concern in my experience. At least in my case, the point of Minimize is just to burn PP while not having to use Softboiled as frequently, and it's done a good job of that especially when I need to PP Stall stuff like Magnezone-3. Also the fact that there's no Seismic Toss at the moment of course. I'm more concerned about Drapion-3 or 4 with Keen Eye than I am of these Minimize moves personally.
 
Just hit the 90 win streak in super doubles. Iv'e been putting this off for a while to work on getting the shiny charm in game.
The team below is exactly the same as the team i used on page 42. Yeah that's a while back now. (2 mondays ago)
I have since made an ev change to my Arcanine so he now has 252 HP. 252 Atk and 4 def, so it can take more hits.

However my streak pretty much ended there at battle 92 against a trick room team and lead Cofagrigus. Turn 1 wilo wisp onto Gyarados ruined me. and trick room only made things worse for me. *sigh. Guess I could of swapped to clefable here but didn't know what much else to do in this battle.

Heres the code for this match: JBEW - WWWW - WWW4 - NLC7

team re-cap:

Gyarados (Male): FirinMyLazer
Item: Gyaradosite.
Nature: Jolly.
Ability: Intimidate/ Mold Breaker.
IV's: 31/ 31/ 31/ **/ 31/ 31
EV's: 4 HP. 252 Atk. 252 Speed.
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Crunch
-Stone Edge

...Fires beam of destruction the face of its enemies. This is the same Mega Gyarados I used for my Super Singles win streak. Its got Stone Edge over Protect as a coverage move now. Surprisingly hasn't missed too many times with that 80% acc. Basically your main goal with this thing, is to keep this behemoth alive for as long as possible, using Togedemaru and Clefable to draw attacks away, and set up to sweep teams with Dragon Dance safely. And oh boy is this thing scary once set up.
As every Mega Gyarados player knows, its not always best to mega evolve right away. Especially against ground type trainers. Once you have removed the threats then you can mega evolve. The only reason to mega evolve sooner would be to prevent a Stone Edge or Rock Slide from dealing super effective damage and to block psychic type damage.


Togedemaru (Male): ItsaFootball.
Item: Focus Sash.
Nature: Jolly.
Ability: Lightning Rod.
IV's: 31/ 31/ 31/ **/ 31/ 31
EV's: 4 Hp. 252 Atk. 252 Speed.
-Fake Out
-Encore
-Zing Zap
-U-Turn

...Its a stone Luigi. You Didn't make it. But its even official size! A different Togedemaru from the one I used with Pelipper. It has Encore now. I'll get into that later.
This thing is getting replaced by Raichu when Pokebank comes out, but until then this thing works out just as well and fills the same role. If not better against Poison types. Lightning Rod diverts Electric attacks away from Gyarados, and Turn one fake out will secure a free Dragon Dance on Gyarados 99% of the time. The other 1% is when Togedemaru gets out sped by another Fake Out user turn 1, and Gyarados gets flinched. I mentioned this problem in a post back in December, but not much i can do about it. If the focus sash breaks but you survive after turn, its best to switch out and use Fake Out again later when it matters.
Encore is a new move over Spiky Shield and is hilarious when used correctly. Turn one Thunderbolt/ Thunder Wave... Encore next turn. Turn 1 Protect/ other random non damaging move... Encore it. 9 times out of 10 the opponent will be forced to switch out, giving me more free turns of setting up Dragon Dances. Zing Zap is preferred over Wild Charge on a focus sash set as it doesn't cause recoil and the flinch has saved me a couple of times. If choosing to use Air Balloon, go with Wild Charge as your not loosing anything there and does more damage with recoil. Focus sash is preferred though so you can guarantee you survive into turn 2.
If Togedemaru outspeeds everything on the opponents side of the field, go for U-turn for chip damage. This move straight up OHKO's Alakazam's and any dragon type moves aimed at Togedemaru becomes nullified when Clefable comes out.


Clefable (Female): Worst to 1st.
Item: Leftovers.
Nature: Bold.
Ability: Magic Guard.
IV's: 31/ **/ 31/ 31/ 31/ 31
EV's: 252 HP. 252 Def. 4 Sp. Def.
-Follow Me
-Moonblast
-Ice Beam
-Moonlight

...Hahahahaha! Jessie: Nice guys always... James: Finish last. Meowth: We Just went from worst to first. Heh! What a classic Pokemon episode in season 1, but enough of all that. Basically Clefable spams Follow me like there's no tomorrow. That's it. That's its only role on the entire team. If you using its other moves then something must of happened in the battle to force you to do such a thing. Taunt for example is a good enough reason to use Moon Blast or Ice beam, which the latter was never used once in the entire 50 win streak. Still the coverage is nice. Moonlight has prolonged its health somewhat in some matches when the opponent only wants to target Clefable over Gyarados etc. Softboiled is preferred here, but until Pokebank comes out your stuck with Moonlight.
Another option I considered over Ice Beam was Helping hand. Sadly i'll have to breed Clefable again if I want the move. Damn the evolution stone Pokemon.


Arcanine (Male): Much Doge
Item: Firium Z
Nature: Adamant.
Ability: Intimidate.
IV's: 31/ 31/ 31/ **/ 31/ 31
EV's: 252 HP. 252 Atk. 4 def.
-Inferno Overdrive/ Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Wild Charge
-Extreme Speed
 
Extrasensory is a non factor since that does literally no damage to you and is only a problem if they flinch constantly, and Greninja doesn't even use Extrasensory against Chansey.

I think an argument for Double Team could be made, but I think the much faster setup rate with Minimize against everything else outweighs that benefit and most of the moves that are threatening when using Minimize have not been a significant concern in my experience. At least in my case, the point of Minimize is just to burn PP while not having to use Softboiled as frequently, and it's done a good job of that especially when I need to PP Stall stuff like Magnezone-3. Also the fact that there's no Seismic Toss at the moment of course. I'm more concerned about Drapion-3 or 4 with Keen Eye than I am of these Minimize moves personally.
The Extrasensory sets I mentioned were the ones that could stat up their Sp A. I don't think we have AI totally worked out yet, so I'm not really sure how they decide what to use in those situations, but the Azelf at least can get a sure 2HKO with Extrasensory from max.

I guess what I'm getting at is basically "When do you need to set up evasion quickly?" and as far as I can tell, the only answers are "When Chansey/Blissey is your last Pokemon" or "When switching to another Pokemon risks them getting statused or KOed but Chansey/Blissey needs to avoid statuus or a 2HKO too." To be in the second situation you need to KO a Pokemon with Chansey. If you are in the first situation you probably screwed up really badly already. Given that, and given that any Pokemon you would set up evasion against isn't a real threat, there's no real disadvantage to taking it slow, is there?
 
All 3 Normals cleared (Singles went down first and was the easiest, then Multi Battle when I got lucky and nailed Colress in Battle 10, and Doubles came way later because I was bored). Due to the lack of good mons I have at my disposal (and natures for a few), I had to rely on the Ultra-Beasts and Tapu Koko to do the heavy lifting for me, especially in Singles. Currently sitting at 30 wins in Super Singles, only because I haven't been blocked by Anabel on this run (SHE IS A MONSTER)

I don't recall the exact EV's I slapped into each of these mons, but the current team is...

Nihilego (Sash and Mild)
Power Gem
Thunderbolt
Sludge Wave
Grass Knot

Celesteela (Quiet and Assault Vest)
Earthquake
Heavy Slam
Giga Drain
Flamethrower

Tapu Koko (Hasty and Life Orb)
Dazzling Gleam
Thunderbolt
Grass Knot
Volt Switch

Off and on members include a Steelium Z Kartana and a Gyaradosite Gyarados, the latter which is added to the team for Doubles. Nihilego is a decent lead, outspeeding a great portion of the Battle Tree and having a wide enough coverage to hit most of the opposition hard. Thanks to Sash, it rarely goes down without taking a kill with it.

Celesteela, with max HP and split ev's between attack and special attack (Though still a higher special attack because IV's) is the replacement to Kartana, and a slow moving tank with semi-reliable recovery. Ass Vest is there to take all the Fire Blasts and Thunders coming her way, and retaliate against them hard. Thanks to her obscene weight, Heavy Slam still hits everything like a nuke even when it's Special Attack that keeps getting boosted, giving me a way past the special walls in the area.

Tapu Koko is also a decent help, and my main answer to all the fighting/dark/dragon types around. Originally, Terrain Extender was here, but Koko wasn't hitting hard enough, so LO was put on to maximize damage.
 
Whelp, just lost my Super Doubles run with a streak of 151.
Battle Vid: 428W-WWWW-WWW4-NMXC
http://imgur.com/a/up4Zn

The loss at battle 152 was almost entirely a result of encountering unexpected movesets (I generally do not check all the trainer and moveset data) - In this case it was a Uxie under trick room using Dazzling Gleam against my MegaGross and Tapu Lele at the start of the battle. I figured it would be a safe switch to Hydreigon from Lele (because why would the AI use that move in that situation :/ the other opponent was Cresselia) and it was an uphill struggle from there. Later I was pressured to bring in my Assault Vest Araquanid against Zapdos, which I figured would at least tank a hit thanks to its gigantic special bulk and get Zapdos into KO range but NO... it uses Wild Charge and proceeds to kill me off (turns out this is Zapdos4, which is Adamant... wtf gamefreak). By this point I was feeling "well, fuck it I'm out" and made the final error of taking revenge on Zapdos asap with my final mon, <50% HP Hydreigon, completely forgetting that Uxie was still sitting there and would definitely KO me that turn with Dazzling Gleam again. I am an idiot haha.

The team however, I am extremely happy with. Especially because I caught, bred and trained them all from the ground up; all have 31 IVS in all relevant stats or have been Hyper Trained. I have no doubt that it can go much further:


Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Jolly | Tough Claws
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
- Protect
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake

This thing wrecks. Fantastic synergy with Lele and generally the two of them can destroy teams without any backup. I am eagerly awaiting my Iron Head Metagross from bank but the Meteor Mash attack boost was actually pretty nice. Amazingly, misses were not the cause of much worry throughout the streak.


Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Timid | Psychic Surge
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire

The keystone of the team. This thing speaks for itself. There were a couple of battles when I questioned whether Shadow Ball would have been more useful than HP Fire but then a Scizor would show up and get wrecked. Escavalier survives the KO however (as I learnt very painfully).


Hydreigon
@ Dragonium Z
Modest | Levitate
252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Spe
- Protect
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon

I had originally been running this one with an Assault Vest due to the resistances it brings to the table but being able to use Protect along with MegaGross was more valuable. Not to mention having a gigantic nuke up my sleeve for quickly removing bigger threats. I am still unsure about swapping to the generic spread (possibly even Timid) once bank comes around but I did like the fact that this had some more bulk and wasn't as useless under Trick Room.


Araquanid @ Assault Vest
Adamant | Water Bubble
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Lunge
- Crunch

The newer addition to the lineup and one which I couldn't be happier with. Initially I couldn't find a final glue-mon which didn't require Bank but it eventually occurred to me that this guy had all the resistances the team needed (thanks to that handy Fire resist which I didn't realise at first). Not only that but it is the perfect Assault Vest mon with that massive SpD and the gigantic power of Liquidation... and it can even heal itself while attacking against the psychic and dark types which my leads can struggle against with Leech Life! Knowing that it can tank STAB electric hits on the special side was ironically my downfall in the end but I have no regrets regarding my choice. I chose to run both Leech Life and Lunge because the secondary effects are both useful in different situations, giving it even more utility for an Assault Vest abuser.


Cheers for reading, hope you enjoy! Now... to try and fix the issues with my 3DS not charging occasionally...
 
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I started playing with Toxapex in 3v3, changing up leads and partners and eventually ended up with this. Let me know what you guys think:


Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 6 SpA
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Recover
- Scald
- Haze


Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 28 SpD / 32 Def
Brave Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- Kings Shield


Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower


Toxapex is the star(fish) of the show and Flygon is really only there to soak up EQs and electric moves. Aegislash is Aegislash but he's honestly not used that often. Mostly to soak up physical hits that Flygon doesn't want to.

Went with a SpDef Toxapex, but I'm sure the EVs/nature can be optimised and Aegislash + Flygon cover all Toxapex's weaknesses, with Aegislash's fire weakness is covered by toxapex as well. Only type that causes trouble is dark, but thats only really Mega Sharpedo so far (crunch hurts), which pretty much requires the sacking of Toxapex to beat.

For Flygon, U-turn is a decent a way to deal damage, stall for toxic and make utilising regenerator easier. Flamethrower is purely for ferrothorn, who I don't really have an answer for otherwise. Another problem is mold breaker EQ, since you can't nullify it with levitate, but I haven't had it end my streak yet.

Only reached 50 so far, but that's because, well, it's a stall team and it's slow to progress.
 
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Finally got the 50 in multi battles with AI partner. Thank you teammate with Z-move Thundurus and Mega Latias, you're not very smart but your Pokémon were broken so it all worked out.
 

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
October 22, 2016, 2:04am

EeveeTrainer
well if youre not gonna set up suicune why not at least set up gliscor against blaziken
JumpXVI
dude
EeveeTrainer
you can toxic sub stall
JumpXVI
can you step back for a second
i dont really need a critique right now
and no, i couldn't
blaziken used blaze kick on turn two against suicune
why am i risking a burn (which actually happened, in practice)
lol i have to average 140 wins a day now to get to 3669 before nov 18
EeveeTrainer
good thing you are completely free
JumpXVI
this is a nightmare man
i dont even think you'd be able to say the right thing
i wanted to go to sleep
"just one more battle"
it's just hell
waste of time is a massive understatement
EeveeTrainer
why do you think i dont want anything to do with it
you are literally asking for that shit to happen
JumpXVI
huh
EeveeTrainer
just by playing over and over and over
JumpXVI
anything to do with what
EeveeTrainer
i find the whole maison culture fascinating but very very very very masochistic
JumpXVI
whatever, i should have the record
nine battles
then i dont lose for six months because i dont play 100 battles a day
i'm only doing this because TDP didn't post, it's really simple
yet i'm borderline insane
"i guess i could have rested with suicune"
"and then gone to gliscor"
but it subbed against gliscor, "did it do that because it was out of leaf storm pp"
it subbed on suicune twice and it can hit it for SE
whatever
i dont think anyone will ever understand my torture

-----

You have no idea how much I've climbed.

Fast-forward a bit with me, to a mid-November night on the upper west side of Manhattan. I'm at, let's say, 3,200 wins and counting. My legs aren't tired, though I'd traveled so far on them, literally and figuratively, under literally unspeakable pressures that would make other legs buckle or not even want to brave the excursion. The pressure to win 3,669 battles straight in 25 days.

27 days. As detailed above, in my conversation with Ian (happy 30th birthday, man), I lost a streak of 1,144 on Saturday, October 22, to Brightpowder Contrary Serperior3 (Leaf Storm/Hyper Beam/Substitute/Toxic). Due in part to substandard sloppy play and not setting up my Suicune fully on Blaziken (for fear of a burn from Blaze Kick which happened anyway), and in part to two misses and a CH on Gliscor.

Oh yeah. For those of you who don't even know who the fuck this dude is, talking all this last-gen nonsense:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite ** Melbourne: Return/Power-Up Punch/Sucker Punch/Earthquake, Adamant, Scrappy -> Parental Bond, 252Atk/4SpD/252Spe
Suicune @ Leftovers ** Holy Water: Scald/Icy Wind/Calm Mind/Rest, Bold, Pressure, 236HP/212Def/60Spe
Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb ** pH Balance: Earthquake/Toxic/Substitute/Protect, Careful, Poison Heal, 236HP/4Atk/4Def/252SpD/12Spe​

Kangliscune, the best team I've ever used. It's virtually perfect. I know it like the back of my hand, and with virtually every loss, I feel like I let it down, due to my own imperfections or misplays. My reputation used to precede me, I guess. My proficiency with Kangliscune, passion for playing, and encyclopedic knowledge of the Maison threats conspired to make my mad, "borderline insane" genius a genius that would be dissatisfied with nothing short of the #1 spot. I had to trudge on.

And so I did the math. 27 days, 3,669 battles. Really 136 battles a day, not 140, but that 4-battle difference would be a trivial difference at the end of the day. Only slightly less trivial than the ~17 battles a day I averaged from mid-April to mid-October, after losing at battle 3,659 (6MRG-WWWW-WW5A-RBPF), a week before I posted my 3,633 streak proof by way of a YouTube video. I was no stranger to this math, after the night of October 11, that mid-October day referenced just above, where I lost, in Battle 3,170 (N7MG-WWWW-WW5A-RC38), the literal only battle in Kangliscune's 15,000 battle history where I could not blame myself and/or otherworldly hax (think Hurrnadus or Serperior3 going on confusion, Brightpowder, CH sprees) for a loss. After that October 11 loss, the math said 100 battles a day in 37 days till Sun & Moon were to debut. Simple math, not so simple task. 1,144 battles and 10 days later on October 22, that 100 figure ballooned to 136.

You'll note two battles there. Stay with me. Krookodile1 (Crunch/Bulldoze/Taunt/Counter), in the 3,659 battle, was April, and that's the only relevant bit of info before I continue my October 22 conversation with Ian.

Let me say this—my instinct is to apologize genuinely for the length of this chatlog, and also this post, but...my first post in nearly a year was never going to be short. And given all that happened, I think it's fair for me to say "blame TheDutchPlumberjack for how long this post has to be", lol.

-----

JumpXVI
do you get me though
that krook, i tried something i wouldnt
i switched in when i thought it would taunt
twice
it used crunch both times
even though it had taunted gliscor 3-4 times (protect)
i dont lose that battle if i know the record is nine battles away, i literally 100% don't
i just stall out its taunt, 20 pp but who cares
that is why "lol 3659" isnt fair, objectively
"lol didnt you know the record was nine battles away?"
um, no?
i believe ive done the noble thing
actually trying
while not complaining
its cost me so much time
EeveeTrainer
what can you possibly complain about tho
JumpXVI
that i wouldn't have lost those nine battles
EeveeTrainer
hes not required to post anything
JumpXVI
you're supposed to post losses
yeah you are
you can't just be a moving target
this team sucks rofl
ninja/megasala/chansey (timid, sub/minimize/soft/toss) [different quick team i was using in the first ~100 battles to maintain my sanity]
everything sucks compared to kangliscune
"My mourning period isn't quite over yet, but since there's this one thing that I recall a certain man writing about fortrightness and leaving people in the dark about chasing moving targets, I feel I should post now anyways. Jumpman16 I'm sorry, about my own stupidity."
he knew
its actually worse than if it were explicitly in the rules
because he acknowledged this himself, thinking i hadn't actually lost
he didnt think that his lack of forthrightness had ACTUALLY caused me to lose
EeveeTrainer
meh
what # did u think he was @
JumpXVI
i thought he was lower
the record he'd posted was like 3450
and i thought he would have stopped
obviously i wasnt half-assing my battles
EeveeTrainer
yeah i think you showed me the krook battle
i dont remember how you lost tho
i remember you doing some risky shit tho
that you def wouldnt have done if you knew you were 9 away from record
"but still"
you cant do that if you dont know he lost
JumpXVI
lol
you have no idea
play literally every battle like it's a must-win?
its insanity
and remember
EeveeTrainer
isnt it though
JumpXVI
the only reason we found out he lost
EeveeTrainer
this isnt the playoffs where you can lose a game
JumpXVI
is because i posted
which is the only reason i posted
EeveeTrainer
esp at 3500
JumpXVI
i could have played perfectly till 4,000
and still have no idea where im at
i dont think you know how "torturous" that is
EeveeTrainer
oh i do
but
JumpXVI
torture works because you have your opposition believe that it wont stop
EeveeTrainer
you cant play risky at any time
if you dont know you have the record
JumpXVI
lol
listen Ian
i'm going to give you a pass here
because you haven't really tried this
but this is the least constructive thing you could possibly be saying to me
by a mile
if i think you're wrong
i'm going to "argue"
and waste time/energy
and if i think you're right, so what?
congrats you're right
i threw away a streak of 3,659 nine battles before the record
now what
this is the most hindsight = 20/20 shit imaginable rofl
you do see that, right

EeveeTrainer
are you mad at TDP?
JumpXVI
its not so much i'm mad than i am cognizant that he know he was disingenuous
he posted it in the very first paragraph of his "#1" post
and posted BECAUSE i posted
and posted NOT because i had lost (he didnt know that)
if i had lost at 3672 or whatever
he would still have been disingenuous
but literally no one would care, because it would be moot
and you could argue what you are now, six months later
and i would say "lol fuck off, i got the record anyway, who cares if you're right"
right?
just please dont lose sight of the fact that i only knew because i posted
fishing for info i should have had
i should not have had to do that if he'd lost
EeveeTrainer
yeah he had no motivation to post once he had the record
why ever post that you lose otherwise
JumpXVI
to avoid the torture im going through now?
EeveeTrainer
i think that you should probably have the record
he should have posted that he lost
you would have known that you were 9 away from the record
JumpXVI
and if he "knew" i was lurking, that's why he should post
EeveeTrainer
and you would have played appropriately
but you not knowing when he lost, youre just playing forever,
JumpXVI
yep
EeveeTrainer
in your mind, youre not playing for a certain number
JumpXVI
nope
which is "torture"
EeveeTrainer
its like swinging at a pitch without knowing the strike count
JumpXVI
more "insanity"
EeveeTrainer
if you dont know the count how do you know how conservative to be with your swing
JumpXVI
yeah exactly
EeveeTrainer
or whether to swing at all

-----

But swing I did, borderline insanity be damned. I swung day after day, knowing I needed to average 136 battles—funny how it's "battles", not "wins", huh? Swing and swing my legs and my body and everything I had to getting that #1 spot. Swing until realizing, that mid-November night on the upper west side of Manhattan at ~3,200 wins, that I had already done something amazing.

I had pushed myself, through doubts of the future and discouragements of the past, to do the unthinkable, in actually winning 3,200 battles in a row in 25 days. After losing a 10-day, 1,144 streak, I somehow had put on my blinders, and tapped into my passion for this game. My love of my team and the desire to give it its rightful due. The repeated, aloud self-encouragement of "this is fun", said with a smile that became less and less forced the higher my streak grew through the hundreds in to the thousands.

I had learned a very valuable lesson, no matter the outcome. It was a truly amazing feeling, one of accomplishment much deeper than that you normally get from a game. Much more meaningful than any of my past #1 records. And I had just a few hundred battles more to go.

So when I lost, somehow, despite no assumptions of my "deserved" crown, on November 16 at battle 3,552 (DP6G-WWWW-WW5A-RC2Y), a battle I would not have lost if my dear Gliscor were male and not female despite some moves I could have made differently, you now do have an idea of what I was feeling. Like I took three separate streaks over 3,000 for nothing. Nothing but that personal valuable lesson that I can take with me and apply elsewhere. For whatever that's worth.

-----

TheDutchPlumberjack, I accept your apology. You have no idea what you were apologizing for, but I accept.

Do I have a flair for the dramatic? Sure, why not. But it wasn't supposed to be this way, I don't think. I was supposed to get to 3,670 sometime on Thursday, November 17, the day before Sun & Moon were to be released. Make this grandiose post about how my assumed top spot wasn't claimed quite the way you all would have thought.

I feel like that fancy, French Maison rug, my red carpet and the waltz of triumph I'd earned so, so badly, was swept right under my legs. Legs fine, but time no more to climb. Because who cares?

Mount Maison is dead. Red is stuck there, and people forget. They move on, to new games, new generations. They remember him, sure. But the memory of a silent once-champion can only linger for so long.

And I've wanted to cry out for so long, about so much else...one of you would surely hear the echoes in Mount Maison, and lend your ear. I've missed that more than anything, but I think you now know why I held my tongue.



For what it's worth, I'm at battle 110 with a team I'll detail later (this is battle 100: GECG-WWWW-WWW4-MX2S). Haven't lost in the Tree yet, for whatever that's worth. It doesn't quite feel like climbing to me, though....not yet. I'm sure you all now have an idea why.
 
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I'm currently playing with a rain team, though since several of its members are still in the Poke Pelago training their EVs, it's not doing terribly well. Except for Pelipper. Even with no Special Attack EVs and a physically defensive build, its Hurricane saved a few battles for me.

Choice Band Araquanid sounds cool, until realize that its weaknesses are fairly common, and rain doesn't break Focus Sashes for you unlike sand or especially hail. Every time I play with Araquanid, I wonder how much better it would be if it had Aqua Jet. The Focus Sash is the bane of all 3 vs. 3 battlers. Perhaps I should go with a more defensive rain team, since rain hyper offense doesn't translate from 6 v. 6. to Battle Spot style very well? The AI isn't above using manual hail or sun to mess with you.

The AI trainers seem to be either very cunning or very stupid, with very little in between. They might lead with Tyranitar to set up sand, and then switch it out to prevent it from dying too early. So far, so good. Then they repeatedly use Will-O-Wisp on my Water Bubble Araquanid. Does the AI not recognize abilities when selecting a move? Computer-controlled characters also seem fixated on confusion moves, even with the reduced chance of success in Sun/Moon. Even outside of the Battle Tree, the AI confused my Pokemon a lot.
 
as soon as I saw there was a Jumpman post I dropped everything I was doing to come see lmao

I feel like that fancy, French Maison rug, my red carpet and the waltz of triumph I'd earned so, so badly, was swept right under my legs. Legs fine, but time no more to climb. Because who cares?

Mount Maison is dead. Red is stuck there, and people forget. They move on, to new games, new generations. They remember him, sure. But the memory of a silent once-champion can only linger for so long.
for what it's worth (phrase sounds familiar lol) I think no matter how far into the future we get there will always be a few people who love the battle facilities who are interested in the old stuff, I know damn well I'm still not over never reaching 49 wins in the Platinum factory and eternally fascinated by the concept of and streaks obtained in the Hall, and if someone posted a topic tomorrow that said "2600 wins reached in PtHGSS Battle Tower" with a novel team and a novel-length explanation of said team I'd read it just as religiously as I'd read the same post about the Tree (if not more so because I actually have three years' worth of personal experience with the Tower and could understand what was going on more than a post about the Tree). of course it's true that the majority of people are going to move on to other games, but there are always those few oddballs who are permanently stuck in the past (like me and my gen 4 Frontier and gen 6 Maison) and as long as they're around there's always going to be someone who's going to listen.
 
Jumpman16 while I can't honestly credit you for making me join Smogon to participate in the facility discussions, I was coming here years prior, starting at D/P, exclusively to look for and read your writeups. I would scan the leaderboard for your name and go from there. The walls of text were pretty enjoyable to read, and kind of made me want to play the facilities myself, since I was learning things about their behavior and so on from you.

So frankly I wish you would have said something sooner, because the gaps of time between your posts/visits tend to stir longing.
 
Currently at 30 wins I'm having difficulties getting easy kills vs bulky grass types like Venusaur and other steel and bugs like Golisopod and Durant. DD Salamence was almost problematic as well. Wondering if I should use Naive nature on Garchomp with Fire Blast instead of Fire Fang:

Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Misty Surge
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Moonblast
Surf

Scizor @ Scizorite
Technician
252 HP / 20 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Roost

Garchomp @ Firium Z
Rough Skin
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Fire Fang
 
Got to 53 in Super Singles with a bunch of high-offense high-speed glass cannons.

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- X-Scissor

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Return
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Got beat by a lead Blaziken-4, the Mega one, when it crit Salamence with Stone Edge and Tapu Koko with Flare Blitz. Can't be too mad, when this team chews through most battles in seconds. Kartana OHKOing 3 Pokemon in a row will never get old. Might not be as consistent as those debuff-to-setup teams, but goodness I love this speed.

Kartana's 4th move is something I question sometimes, but my other options are Night Slash, Psycho Cut, and Aerial Ace, and none of them seem as good. Doesn't get anything that hits fire-types especially hard so, um. Salamence didn't get Dragon Dance or Hydro Pump as egg moves so I'm just running a bunch of coverage. Maybe the part where I have to switch to Salamence is what let Blaziken-4 get at me, but the Kartana lead just wins so many battles by itself and every other switch-to-mence went perfectly, so I dunno, maybe I should've just let Kartana get OHKOed so Salamence could get in fresh, then maybe it could've taken the Stone Edge and OHKO back with Return?
 
Got to 53 in Super Singles with a bunch of high-offense high-speed glass cannons.

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- X-Scissor

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Return
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Got beat by a lead Blaziken-4, the Mega one, when it crit Salamence with Stone Edge and Tapu Koko with Flare Blitz. Can't be too mad, when this team chews through most battles in seconds. Kartana OHKOing 3 Pokemon in a row will never get old. Might not be as consistent as those debuff-to-setup teams, but goodness I love this speed.

Kartana's 4th move is something I question sometimes, but my other options are Night Slash, Psycho Cut, and Aerial Ace, and none of them seem as good. Doesn't get anything that hits fire-types especially hard so, um. Salamence didn't get Dragon Dance or Hydro Pump as egg moves so I'm just running a bunch of coverage. Maybe the part where I have to switch to Salamence is what let Blaziken-4 get at me, but the Kartana lead just wins so many battles by itself and every other switch-to-mence went perfectly, so I dunno, maybe I should've just let Kartana get OHKOed so Salamence could get in fresh, then maybe it could've taken the Stone Edge and OHKO back with Return?

Seems like a fun team. Good work getting that far using low accuracy moves like Fire Blast and even Draco Meteor
 
Currently at 30 wins I'm having difficulties getting easy kills vs bulky grass types like Venusaur and other steel and bugs like Golisopod and Durant. DD Salamence was almost problematic as well. Wondering if I should use Naive nature on Garchomp with Fire Blast instead of Fire Fang:

Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Misty Surge
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Moonblast
Surf

Scizor @ Scizorite
Technician
252 HP / 20 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Roost

Garchomp @ Firium Z
Rough Skin
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Fire Fang
If you are using Firium Z anyway, the lower accuracy on FB doesn't matter so much. That said, I doubt you need Naive to get rid of Durant and Golisopod will take more from Dragon Claw anyway. Tapu Fini seems like a pretty good choice against Durant- Surf should definitely OHKO, Durant has like 59/109/48 Defenses so any non-resisted special attack kills it. I think the general consensus in the thread was that Outrage was more or less mandatory for the extra damage over Dragon Claw though, so maybe try that if you want to tinker. Scizor ought to be able to stall out the majority of grass types- very few learn fire moves and none of the sets in the tree use HP, and misty terrain blocks sleep powder and such. If you give some more specific descriptions of tough battles, people might be able to give some strategy advice- this is a pretty generically good team similar to what many other people have achieved high streaks with, so you should be able to net wins with it so long as you are checking enemy sets and picking the right switches.

Edit: There's probably also some argument that you don't need a fire move on Garchomp anyway. The only pokemon you don't already have neutral coverage against in the tree are Skarmory, Whimsicott, Shiinotic, and Ribombee, and all of those fairies will probably die to a single bullet punch anyway. Skarmory can have sturdy and will probably whirlwind you out anyway, so Fire Blast probably won't preserve your stat boosts and fini can clear it just fine with a surf. There's some argument there for Scizor/Ferrothorn/etc, but I think honestly having both Dragon Claw and Outrage might honestly be better in general, and then you can use your item slot for something more useful, even just a dragon plate if nothing else. Dragonium-Z with Outrage gets you off the hook for the multiple turns and confusion, plus it ignores accuracy and does 25% through protect, so it could turn out useful too. If not, Life Orb is a classic, or Rocky Helmet, or Leftovers.
 
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Got to 53 in Super Singles with a bunch of high-offense high-speed glass cannons.

Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike
- X-Scissor

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Return
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Tapu Koko @ Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Got beat by a lead Blaziken-4, the Mega one, when it crit Salamence with Stone Edge and Tapu Koko with Flare Blitz. Can't be too mad, when this team chews through most battles in seconds. Kartana OHKOing 3 Pokemon in a row will never get old. Might not be as consistent as those debuff-to-setup teams, but goodness I love this speed.

Kartana's 4th move is something I question sometimes, but my other options are Night Slash, Psycho Cut, and Aerial Ace, and none of them seem as good. Doesn't get anything that hits fire-types especially hard so, um. Salamence didn't get Dragon Dance or Hydro Pump as egg moves so I'm just running a bunch of coverage. Maybe the part where I have to switch to Salamence is what let Blaziken-4 get at me, but the Kartana lead just wins so many battles by itself and every other switch-to-mence went perfectly, so I dunno, maybe I should've just let Kartana get OHKOed so Salamence could get in fresh, then maybe it could've taken the Stone Edge and OHKO back with Return?
Mildly surprised to see a lack of Focus Sash on lead Kartana because it sits at such an uncomfortable speed setting. I had used one just to plow through the initial 20 before unlocking supers, and that alone gave me the feeling that Kartana was not going to be reliable enough to carry me through a quick run of supers. It's checkmated a little too easily. I'm ever so slightly envious of your luck for that reason.
 
Mildly surprised to see a lack of Focus Sash on lead Kartana because it sits at such an uncomfortable speed setting. I had used one just to plow through the initial 20 before unlocking supers, and that alone gave me the feeling that Kartana was not going to be reliable enough to carry me through a quick run of supers. It's checkmated a little too easily. I'm ever so slightly envious of your luck for that reason.
It's not that often of a problem I've found, compared to how many matches it ends by itself. Maybe if I start running into more legendaries that outspeed it and it turns out those aren't neatly solved by Koko or mence? But the extra oomph lets Kartana get a few extra OHKOs that let it snowball.
 
I know it's not allowed to make claims of the Tree cheating (and I'm not going to do it), but I started wondering if there has ever been any datamining done on the subject. Many players have claimed for years and years that battle facilities in these games cheat by manipulating RNG against you and so on, but couldn't this claim be proven/disproven simply by looking at the game's code? It would be great to have a closure on this whole thing.
 

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