Battle Tree Discussion and Records

I find your team very interesting and would like to try it but couldn't you use the format that the other people are using here? You forgot the natures and the 4 EVs of Oranguru and Metagross.
Yeah that's my bad. I'm a little new here.
I find your team very interesting and would like to try it but couldn't you use the format that the other people are using here? You forgot the natures and the 4 EVs of Oranguru and Metagross.
my bad. Im new here and messed that up a bit. Generally I put the 4 extra EVs into hp, metagross had the 4 in spdef. It was a timid oranguru, xurkitree, and Koko. Jolly metagross. I put EVs into hp for him because I thought it would be help with survivability but Im starting to think speed might have been better.
 
It used Double-Edge and OHKOd Lele and Phero, and it used dragon rush to OHKO Nihilego. Nothing missed. It was also the lead.
Mega Salamence4 is on the threatlist I posted earlier in the thread. If you're content with 50 wins, then you can retry again. However, for a longer streak, get a new team. There's so much that screws that team over that it isn't funny.
 
Mega Salamence4 is on the threatlist I posted earlier in the thread. If you're content with 50 wins, then you can retry again. However, for a longer streak, get a new team. There's so much that screws that team over that it isn't funny.
Any specifics? I feel like Tapu Lele really carries her weight but I could see myself replacing the other 2 if necessary.
 
Here's the team I used. Managed to get to Battle 60:

Kartana @ Lum Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Protect

Nihilego @ Rockium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Power Gem
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Greninja (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Kartana can basically kill anything weak to Grass. Nihilego is given the Rockium Z in order to proc Beast Boost (Sp Atk) early. Greninja's Water Shuriken and Battle Bond to pick up revenge kills, and Mega Salamence to clean up with its OP Double-Edge.

Team basically gets wrecked by Trick Room teams and Mega Mawile if sent out early. I think I may need to consider running something more defensive.
 
I think we are in the unique situation this generation with the ultra beasts, though. The reason hyper offensive(or at least pseudo offense) works is if you get a favorable matchup with an ultrabeast, you get free boosts along with KOs and go on a sweeping rampage.

You can see it even in the competitive scene where stall is really hurting against offense because the power creep of Beast Boost.
I'm more referring to the length of a streak in proportion to the amount of thought put into a team. Winning 50 battles with a hyperoffensive setup that doesn't really cover itself is not unheard of. Two hundred battles in Singles, the most difficult format apart from maybe Multis, is much harder to accomplish and definitely not dismissively. That right there is one of the defining characteristics of red-flag streaks; the player just chalks it up to beating everything to death and not looking back. Irrelevant anecdotes and misinformation usually pop up in the analysis, but "no one reads them anyway so why bother" is a way to get around that, sure.

Singles doesn't let you switch indescriminately because with only three available pokes to take on several hundred possible outcomes, you must assess your risks and minimize them, which is why bulk and boosts win out over hyperoffense. Hyperoffense was only richly rewarded in Triples, where four utilitarian sweepers could just massacre things while two tried-and-true pokes did the setting up. Singles have no win button like Tailwind, Mat Block, Trick Room or weather. Throughout this topic, Tapu Lele has established itself as a dominant force but clearly does not carry teams for too long before being stopped; no one offensively-oriented poke can do that.
 

Yilx

Sad
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Didn't expect the team I threw together haphazardly to make it this far, but I suppose it's just saying how good UBs can be.

Pheromosa @ Lum Berry (Changed to Focus Sash once I got enough points)
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Beam
- Poison Jab
- U-Turn

"Kill things hard and then die" is what she's for. If she can't hit something at all, I just U-Turn to either Nihilego or Celesteela. I definitely have to go to Nihilego for Fires or Electrics though, which is especially bad when a Physical Fire / Elec shows up. Considering running Naughty instead to nab Atk boosts off Beast Boost.

Nihilego @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Grass Knot
- HP Ice
- Power Gem

I've been advised to run Sludge Bomb instead of Sludge Wave, but I -really- want things to die and not give them a chance to fight back if possible, as if things get a chance to hit Nihilego she'd most likely die. Between HP Ice, Grass Knot and Thundebolt, I've always been left wishing I had one of the other, but in the end I settled on HP Ice + Grass Knot to hit most threatening things.

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 10 Atk / 80 Def / 170 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Substitute

Glues everything together and solos teams on her own sometimes, pretty much my switch-in to anything that the above two cannot handle.


Made it to 52 before losing to mass flinches courtesy of what I would have liked to believe was a King's Rock Samurott. He led with Typholsion which nuked my then Lum Berry Pheromosa with a Scarf Eruption. Sent in Nihilego and KOed Typholosion, but not without taking some residual damage from Eruption first. He sent out Meganium next which got Sludge Waved to dead, but his third mon, Samurott, Aqua Jetted Nihilego for the KO. When I sent in Celesteela, he got 2 critical flinches off Waterfall which did 40% each, doing me and me streak in.
 
Here's the team I used. Managed to get to Battle 60:

Kartana @ Lum Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Protect

Nihilego @ Rockium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Power Gem
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Greninja (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Kartana can basically kill anything weak to Grass. Nihilego is given the Rockium Z in order to proc Beast Boost (Sp Atk) early. Greninja's Water Shuriken and Battle Bond to pick up revenge kills, and Mega Salamence to clean up with its OP Double-Edge.

Team basically gets wrecked by Trick Room teams and Mega Mawile if sent out early. I think I may need to consider running something more defensive.
How did you get a timid Battle bond Greninja?
 
The Ash-Greninja from the demo is soft-resettable. (I spent three or four hours on the day I got mine SR'ing for a Timid one myself.)
Always comes with 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe EV and ?/31/20/31/20/31 IV. I forget the HP IV. Either 20 or 31 though. Need to use berries if you want to do a different EV spread.
 
I think we are in the unique situation this generation with the ultra beasts, though. The reason hyper offensive(or at least pseudo offense) works is if you get a favorable matchup with an ultrabeast, you get free boosts along with KOs and go on a sweeping rampage.

You can see it even in the competitive scene where stall is really hurting against offense because the power creep of Beast Boost.
There's too much that ruins his team. Trick room, scarfs, sashes and bulky pokemon, not to mention the fast ones that will just sweep his team after a HJK misses.

Also competitive and battle tree are very different.
 
i even won 89 and 94 with such a squad! -- self-irony aside, my first thought at seeing that team went along the lines of "how can this possibly cover brave birds and especially staraptor2 (which outruns even 252+ spd pheromosa) any better than my setup?" -- i suspect that another very good reason for using toxapex, mega-slowbro, mega-mence, mega-scizor, aegislash and chansey is their ability to sponge most neutral hits on at least one side of the spectrum, since very few configurations pre-bank that cover all the types are viable. sure, guzzlord goes well with aegislash typewise, but it appears to have wailord-like base stats and always gets hit before it can do anything, whereas hydreigon doesn't deal enough with a scarf (252 satk modest surf does not even ohko 0 hp / 0 sdef salazzle) and doesn't run fast enough without it. and as you've said, even "bulky offense" with good weakness coverage, which is what i like to think i have tried so far (kartana/specs tapu-fini/sash garchomp), simply cannot afford repeated switches -- when you check a type, you must outspeed and knock out the quarry afterwards, or at least tank whatever coverage it can fire at you (prime examples from my experience so far: flash cannon heatran, life orb infernape).

e.g. whenever i ran into lead sunnybeamers (say arcanine or typhlosion), the correct tactic was to switch to tapu-fini, tanking flamethrower, then use surf on the predictable sunny day for 40% damage (foepas berry), then switch back to kartana on the solarbeam, as despite its poor special bulk, it can take them rather comfortably. then sacred sword delivers the knock-out and a beast boost, what's not to like?

but then you come across e.g. lead staraptor, for which one set runs choice band close combat (ohko on kartana) and another runs z-brave bird (ohko on tapu), not even to speak of the choice scarf set. with the team i've been using, i find myself unable by design to make an informed decision against this opponent. there is no way to know the set before you essentially risk a coinflip (actually the switch to tapu is favorable 75%--25% when all four sets come into question, because 3 out of 4 staraptor sets will not 2hko, but imagine using a 75% accurate move for super singles; and i think certain trainers only use sets 3/4 which really would render this a coinflip -- note that i'm not too acquainted with those mechanics yet and have avoided looking at TRE's list for a while, because i have strange ideas about fun). and you never want to gamble in the tree. in contrast, when your switch-in is mega-slowbro or aegislash, you hardly care about whether you're switching into brave bird or close combat.

and this is a huge element to why defense wins more reliably: you are not only less prone to misprediction, but also to situations in which you need to cover all the possible sets of a pokemon. staraptor would never be a problem if the game just told me the set before it could make a move. i have been thinking about whether the intel gained from abilities such as frisk or (only if abilites are) trace could justify the use of e.g. porygon2, or mega-gardevoir postbank (if we get the stone at all, fingers crossed) for bulky offense edit: just remembered that abilities aren't fixed (most amusing: protean greninja with spikes and toxic orb effect spore breloom), so trace gives no such advantage, but maybe we have an argument in favour of eggy-alola here, haha

----

Yilx: iirc you can get one free focus sash from a dancer on the beach of poni wilds, who battles you with a team of four oricorio, all of them sashed (maybe you have to defeat all the trainers in the area first) -- i guess you have one now, though, but perhaps someone else reading the thread will find this helpful
I agree defense wins more reliably. Defense always has been better.

That said, defense has a few more obstacles this time around in random Z-moves, which can cause problems.

Defense will still be better, especially post-bank when Gliscor comes in.

Gliscor has ridiculous defensive role-compression in any one of these. He is a status sponge thanks to toxic orb, he can solo PP stall a pokemon, he has two immunities for switch in, he can toxic stall, and his base offenses are actually quite good along with the fact that he has an absolutely insane typing.

It is why I said, once the bank goes out, I am going straight for Mega-Scizor, Gliscor, Toxapex. Gliscor + Toxapex has a massive defensive blanket over just about everything with nearly unlimited switch in opportunities through the ridiculous amount of passive healing, excellent defensive typing, and nearly infinite PP stalling without losing any PP on your side.

I am just saying, this generation, with access to beast boost, you will see more hyper-offensive streaks pop up due to the ability of offensive pokemon to simply brute force through things with extra boosts.
 
Yilx: iirc you can get one free focus sash from a dancer on the beach of poni wilds, who battles you with a team of four oricorio, all of them sashed (maybe you have to defeat all the trainers in the area first) -- i guess you have one now, though, but perhaps someone else reading the thread will find this helpful
really helpful! there are several area kahunas like this and all of them gave an item, if I hadn't stumbled on this I would have much appreciated the tip :)
 
I think we are in the unique situation this generation with the ultra beasts, though. The reason hyper offensive(or at least pseudo offense) works is if you get a favorable matchup with an ultrabeast, you get free boosts along with KOs and go on

I am just saying, this generation, with access to beast boost, you will see more hyper-offensive streaks pop up due to the ability of offensive pokemon to simply brute force through things with extra boosts.
Yeah, that's why everyone used Moxie instead of Intimidate on Salamence and Gyarados in the past. Once they get that free KO (because of course the first Pokemon will always let you KO it without doing any damage in return), their Attack stats became so high that they ignored Focus Sash, Sturdy, evasion items, etc.
 
I just achieved a modest streak of 28 wins. Definitely not what I was shooting for, but I'll take it.
The only thing unusual about the team was that I was running assault vest Mudsdale.

You know, the horse?

You might say he's
underrated, as his bulk is crazy, but then again he lacks recovery. And that cost me my streak.
Well, what actually cost me my streak was the fact that both of its teammates, Toxapex, and Pheromosa are weak to Psychic.
I originally had Celesteela in place of Mudsdale, but that made for a whopping 3 shared weaknesses. It worked great though.

I haven't bothered to post movesets/evs because the streak was this short. If someone is curious I will.

Right now I'm just brainstorming, I want a more effective,synergetic team that is also kind of original and fun.
 
Am I the only one who gets confused when people put Spd?

I think it's special defense, because spe on Toxapex is weird. But sometimes I just can't tell.
 
So because I don't really do the whole online battling thing anymore I was messing with the Battle Tree Singles to give me some end game content to do and threw together a quick team (without access to UBs).

I got to a streak of 49 and lost to Lead Cofagrigus (Hex/Calm Mind/Will-O-Wisp/something), a set I've lost to before, and I'm salty enough now to ask for suggestions and make changes.


Minior @ Light Clay
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
-Rock Slide
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Explosion

Scizor @ Scizorite
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Bullet Punch
-X-Scissor
-Swords Dance
-Roost

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Brick Break
-Earthquake (I don't even know what this is for? Faries maybe?)
-Dragon Dance

Minior more or less gets reliable screens up and can usually beat Fire types one on one like Delphox that the others don't want to switch in on. Explosion never kills but bringing in Scizor safely has worked well enough. Scizor is obviously a proven Battle Facility Pokemon and wins 95% of matches. Kommo-o on the other hand seems pretty mediocre and is definitely the most replaceable member of the team. Maybe it needs a Chesto Rest type of set?

Any suggestions? I was thinking maybe Ash-Greninja or Chesto Rest Tyranitar? There's likely a few options I've forgotten about as well.
 
I just finished normal Doubles with the team by Fanadict with some changes by me. Thank you very much for this team!
The battle against Blue was actually very easy, the real terror was the previous battle! I encountered a Moody Glalie and it really bothered me!
It got evasion boosts and pratically everything missed that I tried on that stupid Glalie!

I would show you, but for an unknown reason, I'm not able to upload battle 19. I get an error message
that this battle can't be published. Do you maybe know why? But, at least, here's the battle against Blue:

ERXG-WWWW-WWW2-NZUH
 
I've been a lurking around Smogon for a very long time (I played Gen 3 OU... On Netbattle!!!), but I've not played OU terribly much since then. I've also played around the various Battle Towers over the years to streaks in the 100's, but I've decided to get a little more serious this time around.

I died in the late 20's of my streak with this team to Togekiss3, and had a flinch hax incident with Weavile1 that almost got me a little before that. It's the basic SlashNite core (minus the specialized spreads, didn't really want to do the spreads after a lot of time spent with bad breeding luck/lack of patience, potentially to my detriment) and I'm really liking it so I'm looking for a better third to tie it all together. Should I just go with Tapu Fini (seems to be the meta), or is there something more creative out there that someone could suggest?

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Roost

Aegislash @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

Starmie @ Assault Vest/Life Orb
252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Surf
- Ice Beam

My motivations to go with Starmie were largely because it's a dear favorite of mine, but also a coverage whiz. Starmie's too flimsy for the AV, and doesn't appreciate the LO without Recover. Right away I'd probably switch Grass Knot for Recover and use the LO (or a Z crystal?), but the shared weaknesses it has with Aegislash have proven quite problematic so far so dumping Starmie is likely for the best =(
 
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I've got the stamps for Singles and Doubles now and aiming for the Multi. Definitely struggling with Kiawe's partner AI for what would otherwise be a solid team. But first the Singles team, which made it to 52 after quite a few tries:

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Megahorn

Tapu Koko has obviously worked out well as a lead. I use a mixed set with Brave Bird mostly to nail some Grass-types that Gyarados or Bulu can otherwise pick off if Koko doesn't make it out alive. I did have quite some trouble with Poison-types, and often had to sacrifice a tapu just for Gyarados to come in for a shaky revenge kill. This team carried me pretty often into the 40s, but twice I got shut out by Venusaur-4 (bulky-Def Mega), one of which was Red's. On the rematch with Red, I swapped out Tapu Bulu for SubDisable Salazzle out of Venusaur salt, even though he only went with Blastoise/Lapras/Snorlax the second time around:

Salazzle @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Substitute
- Disable

Besides Venusaur, she otherwise nicely handles stally bullshit like Blissey-4 or Alola Muk-1 (Minimize) and every Umbreon out there despite holding up like wet paper. She can Toxic stall almost any slower Poke, especially with Toxic never missing (seriously fuck Minimize/Double Team). Defensive Pokes in the Tree often carry one move that can KO Salazzle, much less break her Sub, and they are easily Disabled by predictable AI. I think she could carry a higher streak with better support, but until then I have dropped her since my pool of 'mons are pretty limited until Bank.

Doubles was easier for me. Only took three tries to break 50 and swept Blue but got stopped at 58. I used Tapu Koko, Golisopod, Porygon-Z, and Gyarados:

Golisopod (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Emergency Exit
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Leech Life
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet

Porygon-Z @ Normalium Z
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hyper Beam
- Conversion

Yes, you read Hyper Beam right. With the shorter battle format, I found that having the option to either set up Z-Conversion boosted by Electric Terrain or nuke everything bar Ghosts without missing was too good not to try. Alola Marowak isn't around much to ruin the party, leaving Magnezone as the only big fear for Porygon-Z.

I'm using Tapu Koko and Gyarados with Kiawe's Kangaskhan-4 and Talonflame-4 since he's the only decent partner I've bothered to scout. Still, Kiawe's AI only goes so far and we only made it to 45 once. Generally he is pretty good at Faking Out first turn with Mega Kanga (although I have to guess which opponent) but constantly EQs when Gyarados comes in and even after I have Mega Evolved it. Anyone have any luck with other Multi partners?
 
Hello, I am here looking for some advice on Super Singles for when I start it. Unlike Battle Maison I intend to tackle the Battle Tree with series teams. Now here's the deal:

After 3-4 agonizing hours, I was finally able to score a Mareanie with Regenerator. I currently have it in the daycare with a Haze Surskit and I definitely am going to use one not matter what. Not only does Toxapex seem like a all-round great wall to help take attacks from both offensive angles, but after all the time I put in to get the sucker I am definitely going to use it. I already know the ideal build:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Bold Nature
-Scald
-Haze
-Toxic
-Recover

The other 2 slots where I could use some advice. I was thinking that with such a bulky yet passive Pokemon to sponge attacks and stall as needed while shutting down jank, stat boosters, I think it would make sense for the other two to have more offensive presence, namely a strong yet bulky physically attacker and a strong yet bulky special attacker. These two came to mind:

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Att / 252 Speed
Nature: Adamant/Jolly/Naive
-Return
-Earthquake
-Dragon Dance/Roost
-Dragon Dance/Roost/Flamethrower/Fire Blast

With Intimidate Salamence would get in well against a lot of physical attacking Pokemon and the stats he gets when Mega-evolved and after being augmented by Aerialate would make him monstrous. Sadly I have a bit 4MSS in regards to him. I'd love to just role with Earthquake an Return but I am worried about Steels that ignore Earthquake like Skarmory, hence the Fire moves. But then I realized that with Dragon Dance and Roost I could boost up to overwhelm these Steels. I am leaning a bit towards Adamant with the 2 support moves but could use advice.

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Terrain
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Nature: Timid
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball
- Aromatherapy

Psychic Terrain lets Tapu Lele hit mad hard. And with Choice Scarf I can speed many unboosted Pokemon. I bet you're wondering what Aromatherapy is for. It's basically a wonky attempt at role compression since we only get 3 Pokemon. In case of an emergency where Salamence catches a nasty status condition due to the enemy surviving or having a Focus Sash, Lele can come in for an emergency heal up. But of the three Lele is the one I think has the most room for suggestion.

And if you think there are more ideal Pokemon than the last 2 I'd take those suggestions too. But Toxapex is staying no matter what. lol

PS: Does Battle Tree have a Sleep Clause or can multiple Pokemon be put to sleep?
 

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