Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[December]

Good teammates for this metagross?

Metagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake

 

[Siggu]

4 EVs each in Def and SpD gives you 2 points extra, 8 EVs in Atk gives you only 1 point. Also 1 point in Atk boosts your Atk by 0.5% (1 point out 200), while 1 point in Def boosts it by 0.66% (1/151) and your SpD by 0.9% (1/111). It just gives you a little bit more overall, when you put 4 EVs each in bulk compared to just putting 8 in Atk. If you don't need all your EVs, it's most of the times slightly better to cut 8 EVs from a stat and put 4 EVs each in the 2 stats, which don't have EVs yet.

EV spreads at level 50 are not as simple as at level 100. Generally it's acceptable to lose 1 point in your secondary stat in order to gain a point in each of the tertiary stats.

It is basically just a math game, operating on the idea that +1 in two moderately useful stats will generally have more applications than +1 in your single best stat.

The Vaporeonice Mega-Salamence ran 4/252/4/0/12/236 as a lead. This ran at 187 speed.

Using http://pastebin.com/0QBULpdW from Turskain, we can see it takes 173 speed to outspeed anything after a single DD.

Probably, the easiest change is to go 4/252/4/0/4/244, putting you at 188, which is an unused tier. 184 is the next one you can use, which outspeeds all the base 115+ speed pokemon by 1. The only speed fights you sacrifice to this point are ones against Hawlucha and Salazzle. 182 is the last unused speed tier until 166 at that point.

The 183 tier has most Azelf, Ambipom, Starmie, and Raikou. It also has mega absol and mega houndoom.

Scarfed Rampardos is at 181.

The question then becomes what threats are you most concerned by after that. Mega-Lucario runs at 180 speed, but he is likely better off switch stalled with Aegislash.

There are so many pokemon between that and the next tier at 166 that I don't think it is worth pursuing any lower.

I'd probably stop at 184 if I were choosing. It makes things very simple. The stat build for that is 4/252/4/0/4/220 with 24 extra going into HP or SPDef.

Fine, fine, we got it, no need for three different people to explain it :P

So the EV training one should go for is either 4 or Multiple of 8 + 4. Or is there any other quirk?

 

[Maunzi]

If you run some hidden power, that requires 30 IVs in a stat (or running an even number of IVs for whatever reason), the amount of EVs should just be a multiple of 8. But in every normal case (i.e. your Pokémon has 31 IVs), it is like you just said: 4 or multiple of 8 + 4

 

[pokemonc]

Because the Battle Tree is Level 50 and not Level 100 you should adjust the EVs a bit. You would get the same stats with 244 HP, 124 Atk, 132 Spd, because after the first 4 EVs you need 8 more EVs to raise the stat by 1. So you can either put 4 EVs each in Def/SpD or put all 8 in Atk or Spd. Personally I would put 156 EVs in Spd (or 140 and Jolly, outspeeds Manectric4 after 1 DD), just because I don't like to speedtie with any Pokémon haha.

If I put 156 Spe EVs into adamant Salamence how could I invest the remaining EV points?

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Guys I want to use Mega-Lucario:

Is physical better with Extreme Speed Close Combat Bullet Punch Swords Dance
or
Special with Aura Sphere Flash Cannon Nasty Plot Vacuum Wave ???

 

[Anidalife]

Currently at around 45 with a Dragonite/Mimikyu/Toxapex team. Mimikyu is definitely the least used one, thinking of switching it out but not sure for what yet. Maybe a special attacker like Tapu Fini.

Dragonite @ Lum
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Sp/ 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Outrage

I've noticed that roost is rarely used. Usually just against hyper beam or Slaking. Might even consider another move. Some bad opponents leads are(Some are just bad because I'm new to battle tree and stayed in like an idiot):
Gardevoir3: Trace multiscale, dazzling gleam easily 2HKO. Can't switch to Toxapex either due to Psychic AND lum..
Staraptor1: Most surprising one. Spams Endeavor, then quick attack after sash.
Articuno2: Icebeam -> ice shard 2HKO.
Blissey3: Didn't expect it but icebeam 2HKOs. +1 Outrage does not 1HKO it.
Ferrothorn1: Wasn't a lead but my dragonite was dead. Had to PP stall it out. Good thing it paralysed my toxapex for PP efficiency
Espeon4: Dazzling Gleam/Psychic. Can't switch to toxapex either. Gotta waste Mimikyu's disguise or let something die.
Alolan Ninetails2: Hail, Dazzling Gleam, Ice shard. Freeze dry for super effective on Toxapex too. Only encountered once. Switched Toxapex into it, misclicked toxic, somehow survived 3 freeze-dry hits with a good damage roll and 1 hp to recover. Not recommended.
Blaziken4: I used DD and got hit by stone edge, then remembered speed boost....

Some surprisingly OK opponents are:
Goodra, Dragonite, most dragons. Easily survive most non-stab icebeams or dragon pulse or dragon rush, DD up, and kill. Goodra blizzard doesn't OHKO.

Toxapex@ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP/ 156 D/ 100 SpD
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic
- Scald

Probably used about as much as dragonite. Walls basically everything except Thunderbolt or Psychic. Then just toxic and recover. Not much to say. Would definitely recommend.

Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Sp/ 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
Basically unused. Can't comment too much on it. Gonna switch it out when I can.

Recommendations for something that's resistant to these psychic types?

 

[LucarioMega]

Guys I want to use Mega-Lucario:

Is physical better with Extreme Speed Close Combat Bullet Punch Swords Dance
or
Special with Aura Sphere Flash Cannon Nasty Plot Vacuum Wave ???

I like the Special set more because Intimidate and burns are more frequent. I think that SD/Nasty Plot dont work really good in the Battle Tree because Mega Luc dosnt have good bulk and the AI wouldnt make any switch, wich is the best scenario for Mega Luc to set up.

Special set + Dark Pulse over Nasty Plot, in my opinion.

By the way, thanks a lot for the EV tips. I know that lvl 50 is not the same as lvl 100, but didnt know how to optimize. Thanks.

 

[AvatarST]

Folks,

What's a good third mon to complement this team? I want something defensive. I thought of Toxapex but I'm terrified of Garchomp.

Skarmory seems like a good fit to cover most of my weaknesses... Scizor too.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Sp/ 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost/Fire Punch
- Outrage/Dragon Claw

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Spatk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

 

[MKL122788]

Sorry folks for being late to the party on this whole Koro Sensei thing. Thankfully, Codraroll took care of it, but I'm a little bit miffed, as we don't normally have difficulties with people attacking other members here. Don't lie, don't cheat, and keep things civil. If making dubious claims, be sure to give lots of evidence concerning your streak. All of this should be pretty basic. The vast majority of people are already good on this, so frustrating to even have to post a reminder.

In happier news, I'm actually close to being able to start building tree teams. My playthrough of the main game has been slow, but I'm almost done. Also, I'm thrilled about being able to essentially transmute 150 festival points (100 if you couple it with a plaza level up) into a bottle cap by adding a VIP's level 2 lottery for 100 coins, grabbing the automatic first draw bottle cap, replacing the lottery with a random level 1 facility for 50 festival points, and then repeating. While it means that bottle caps still can't be used completely freely, it makes them common enough I don't need to feel guilty about using them on a pre-bank team.

Remember when I said I would breed for you, or I'd end up getting more beast ball pokemon? Well, I have 40 species fully IV'd up in BB with proper abilties and such now. And I've acquired 20 more.

I'm going to blame you because Donald Trump said I could.

 

[Cardio]

Folks,

What's a good third mon to complement this team? I want something defensive. I thought of Toxapex but I'm terrified of Garchomp.

Skarmory seems like a good fit to cover most of my weaknesses... Scizor too.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Sp/ 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost/Fire Punch
- Outrage/Dragon Claw

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Spatk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

Good timing on your post. I was using the same core (although with a physical Koko set) with my third as Tapu Fini

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 1 Spa
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Surf (Scald is probably better)

NoCheese Edit: The full team is detailed here.

I made it to 215 (CV4W-WWWW-WWW3-WJD3) before being knocked out. It's a passable team but has trouble handling ground/grass/poison pokemon that are bulky or just plain powerful after Dragonite is knocked out ie Torterra, Nidoking, M-venusaur. There are also some electric pokemon that wall Koko, such as Lanturn and Electivire that Fini can't really handle either. Fini also has low Spdef until after CM so things like Aromatisse4, Thunderbolt variants of Regiice are a bad switch.

The match I lost was vs Salazzle, Aerodactyl and Hippowdon. Salazzle was sashed and managed to poison Dragonite twice however it doesn't really matter as Aerodactyl outspeeds a +1 Dragonite anyhow. After that Aerodactyl outsped me and that was pretty much GG. I don't really know how I could have played that to win. Tapu Koko was just OHKO'd by all pokemon and was essentially useless. Only way was if he outsped Aerodactyl to take him out.

At this stage I'm going to try Pheromosa lead again, except with wide lens and HJK + Giga impact and use Fini as a someone to U-turn to. Not sure what I'll have as a third.

 

[Anna says hi]

I'm going to try Pheromosa lead again, except with wide lens and HJK

i dont get peoples fascination with wide lens hjk. it still hurts you if you use it into protect, low kick is far more reliable and lets you use an actual item like focus sash or lo while not killing you if the ai gets a double protect or you miss (because 1% misses still happen)

+ Giga impact

phero's biggest problems are with ghosts, so why are you trying to make it even more walled by ghosts when you can run something like ice beam

 

[Draexzhan]

Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Sp/ 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough

I run a similar set to this, except I prefer Leech Life or Wood Hammer over Shadow Claw. More coverage that way, and I have a 100% accurate move against normal types. Plus, I find more often than not that shadow sneak and play rough are all the STAB I need. +2 Play Rough kills most problems, and the ones it doesn't tend to get seriously wounded by Twinkle Tackle. Wood Hammer is good for the bulky water and ground types, and Leech Life can be used for a bit of recovery.

In other news, I'm about to tackle Super Multis and ooooh boy I am NOT looking forward to that. Where do I even begin... I've found a good partner in Firefighter Camber where he leads with Ludicolo and follows with M-Swampert. I've found they go great with a Tapu Bulu lead.
Dexio has also been a pretty good partner when he lead with Passimian to go with my Xurkitree.

 

[eric7223]

Currently at around 45 with a Dragonite/Mimikyu/Toxapex team. Mimikyu is definitely the least used one, thinking of switching it out but not sure for what yet. Maybe a special attacker like Tapu Fini.

I am also interested in this. I'm currently using Dragonite (a bit bulkier than yours)/Toxapex/Tapu-Koko. I've also noticed that I rarely use Roost, and am testing out Fire Punch. Again, I've also noticed that I use Toxapex and Dragonite way more than Koko. I feel like Koko is way too fragile (mine only has perfect HP/SpA/Speed IVs). Koko's Electric Terrain makes its resistance to Electric a bit less awesome, and it is many times 2HKO'd by T-Bolt... I was thinking about maybe trying Lele in its place, which will at least resist Psychic with a little more bulk than Koko does Electric.

I've also bred a 5IV Jolly Garchomp to get an Electric resistance, but I'm hesitant to change Dragonite because I love Multiscale DD.

 

[MKL122788]

I am also interested in this. I'm currently using Dragonite (a bit bulkier than yours)/Toxapex/Tapu-Koko. I've also noticed that I rarely use Roost, and am testing out Fire Punch. Again, I've also noticed that I use Toxapex and Dragonite way more than Koko. I feel like Koko is way too fragile (mine only has perfect HP/SpA/Speed IVs). Koko's Electric Terrain makes its resistance to Electric a bit less awesome, and it is many times 2HKO'd by T-Bolt... I was thinking about maybe trying Lele in its place, which will at least resist Psychic with a little more bulk than Koko does Electric.

Often, the most successful pokemon use two defensive Pokemon.

Consider using something like Chansey, which can be a catch-all special blob. Especially after bank comes out and she can have seismic toss, but for now, she can also toxic stall.

 

[iVolke]

Good timing on your post. I was using the same core (although with a physical Koko set) with my third as Tapu Fini

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 1 Spa
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Surf (Scald is probably better)

I made it to 215 (CV4W-WWWW-WWW3-WJD3) before being knocked out. It's a passable team but has trouble handling ground/grass/poison pokemon that are bulky or just plain powerful after Dragonite is knocked out ie Torterra, Nidoking, M-venusaur. There are also some electric pokemon that wall Koko, such as Lanturn and Electivire that Fini can't really handle either. Fini also has low Spdef until after CM so things like Aromatisse4, Thunderbolt variants of Regiice are a bad switch.

The match I lost was vs Salazzle, Aerodactyl and Hippowdon. Salazzle was sashed and managed to poison Dragonite twice however it doesn't really matter as Aerodactyl outspeeds a +1 Dragonite anyhow. After that Aerodactyl outsped me and that was pretty much GG. I don't really know how I could have played that to win. Tapu Koko was just OHKO'd by all pokemon and was essentially useless. Only way was if he outsped Aerodactyl to take him out.

At this stage I'm going to try Pheromosa lead again, except with wide lens and HJK + Giga impact and use Fini as a someone to U-turn to. Not sure what I'll have as a third.

I used Dragonite/Aegislash/Tapu Fini(Choice Scarf Modest). Aegislash pairs really well with Dragonite. You could have switched Aegislash for free in on Salazzle after you got it down to the Sash, since it will use Poison, not Fire on Dragonite and get an easy KO with Shadow Sneak. Immediately King's Shield vs Aerodactyl to scout for either Crunch or EQ(probably EQ, but doesn't hurt to stall one PP, or get a -2 if it uses something else). If EQ, you switch stall EQ and Stone Edge PP with Dragonite and Aegislash, then set up Aegislash Swords Dance and OHKO with Sacred Sword. Fini should be easily able to handle Hippowdon afterwards, but you could PP stall EQ again with Dragonite if you needed to.

 

[BlueEew]

Just lost on battle 62 in super singles using a team of Koko/Dragonite/Mega-Gyarados. I really should check movesets online before switching xDD.

 

[Cardio]

i dont get peoples fascination with wide lens hjk. it still hurts you if you use it into protect, low kick is far more reliable and lets you use an actual item like focus sash or lo while not killing you if the ai gets a double protect or you miss (because 1% misses still happen)
phero's biggest problems are with ghosts, so why are you trying to make it even more walled by ghosts when you can run something like ice beam

Yeah I didn't even end up using Giga impact once I remembered ice beam was an option. Ice beam/U-turn/Lunge/HJK. I'll consider Low Kick as well but I'm just trying her out and seeing what partners work will with U-turn. I'm going to run some calculations with LO and see.

I used Dragonite/Aegislash/Tapu Fini(Choice Scarf Modest). Aegislash pairs really well with Dragonite. You could have switched Aegislash for free in on Salazzle after you got it down to the Sash, since it will use Poison, not Fire on Dragonite and get an easy KO with Shadow Sneak. Immediately King's Shield vs Aerodactyl to scout for either Crunch or EQ(probably EQ, but doesn't hurt to stall one PP, or get a -2 if it uses something else). If EQ, you switch stall EQ and Stone Edge PP with Dragonite and Aegislash, then set up Aegislash Swords Dance and OHKO with Sacred Sword. Fini should be easily able to handle Hippowdon afterwards, but you could PP stall EQ again with Dragonite if you needed to.

Aegislash would have worked IF my dragonite didn't get double poisoned, you're right about that. I actually considered Aegislash when I built my team originally but

1) If my dragonite is dead his EQ weakness is often streak ending
2) Switch stalling is really slow lol

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[iVolke]

Aegislash would have worked IF my dragonite didn't get double poisoned, you're right about that. I actually considered Aegislash when I built my team originally but

1) If my dragonite is dead his EQ weakness is often streak ending
2) Switch stalling is really slow lol

You use King's Shield every time Aegislash comes out, so he burns 5 EQ PP himself. It's not that slow, and it's not like you have to do it every battle. I did this once every 25 battles or so. If you run Roost on Dragonite, you can also stall Stone Edge yourself by using Roost and Multiscale as long as you are faster than the user.

Just got home and watched your video.

I'm trying to figure out why the AI switched out Salazzle on Koko in that situation. It's not like he couldn't damage you. However, if you had used your STAB move on Salazzle, you would have OHKO the Aerodactyl on the switch and won that battle. Switch to Fini on Hippowdon and finish Salazzle with Koko. Can you give some insight on why did you use Quick Attack? Koko is faster than Salazzle.

Also, I would have used Roost after getting hit by the first Sludge Bomb to get Multiscale back, then set up a second DD, then Roost or go for the KO as necessary. Would have been faster than Aerodactyl and might have suicided Dragonite to weaken Hippowdon, then easy KO with Fini. With my entire team though, would have switched to Aegislash turn 1, turn 2 scout with King's Shield to be sure, turn 3 switch to Fini on the Fire attack, turn 4 Surf(Choice Scarf) and get KO'd by Sludge Bomb after if Fini got hit on the switch. Send out Dragonite to replace. Switch to Aegislash on the Stone Edge, King's Shield to confirm the Aerodactyl has Choice Band(which I guess I did since it used EQ on Fini), then proceed to set up Aegislash to +6 for the easy sweep. If it used EQ on King's Shield, then would have done the switch stall on EQ PP.

Anybody know why the AI switched out Salazzle when Koko came out?

EDIT: Went back a few pages and saw you use Adamant Koko and no Roost on Dragonite. Guess you were screwed either way. You still would have won if you used your STAB move with Koko to KO the Aerodactyl on the switch, but it's hard to say you should have done that knowing Salazzle is faster than Koko.

Random, but Choice Scarf Modest Fini is faster than Aerodactyl and OHKO's with Surf, and I think it would have swept all 3 Pokemon for you in that situation.

 

[GG Unit]

Without looking, the AI will sometimes switch in a flyer/levitator if you used a Ground move the turn before, even if the Pokémon you currently have out doesn't have a Ground move.


This probably also happens in other cases, but the ground one was relatively common to come across in the past after something with Sturdy and Metal Burst would KO an Earthquake user.

 

[iVolke]

Without looking, the AI will sometimes switch in a flyer/levitator if you used a Ground move the turn before, even if the Pokémon you currently have out doesn't have a Ground move.


This probably also happens in other cases, but the ground one was relatively common to come across in the past after something with Sturdy and Metal Burst KO would KO an Earthquake user.

Thanks. Thats's probably the case. Dragonite used EQ the previous turn before KO by poison damage and Koko came out to replace.

 

[Ames]

Gotta love this thread :)

I have been trying to complete Super Singles 50 before moving on to Doubles (my preference of the two) but have now lost 3 times in a row at 45, 47 and 47... the frustration.

I do have a decent amount of experience with the AI (made it to 170something on the ORAS leaderboards) but my team keeps getting pulled apart by unexpected Zmove nukes along with the usual hax. I've been using the old Dragon / Steel / Fairy core of MegaMence, Aegislash and Primarina (was originally using Toxapex in the last slot but the double ground weakness was brutal).

Will do a proper write up once I pass 50 but for the moment I'm thinking of swapping Primarina for trusty Azumarill or even Gastrodon. If that still fails I guess it's back to the drawing board ha!

 

[Bingbing]

Got a 50 streak in super singles. My team wasn't perfectly optimized for the tree at all, and I forgot to replace False Swipe with an actually useful move on Kartana, but Mega Salamence is so ridiculously overpowered it didn't matter much, and that was whenever Toxapex wasn't stalling entire teams to death by itself. Factor in some good luck (not getting hit once in three OHKO moves by Walrein-4 being the biggest one) and it was a breeze to win 50.

Team by the end was as follows:
Salamence Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 70 HP/252 Atk/188 Speed
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Toxapex Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

Kartana Focus sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpDef/252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- False Swipe (whoops)
- Sacred Sword

The last slot was in flux for a while; I was originally running Celesteela over Kartana before I realized not having an electric resist was going to be my undoing, and at first I was running Scarf Kartana before I decided the failsafe of Focus Sash would be more useful than a Scarf. Gliscor in the last slot would probably be incredible once Bank is released; god knows how many things you'd be able to stall out just by switching between it and Toxapex.

 

[BlueEew]

Just lost on battle 62 in super singles using a team of Koko/Dragonite/Mega-Gyarados. I really should check movesets online before switching xDD.

Same team lost at 95.

 

[Endika]

Currently 75 winning streak with this team:

Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 60 Atk / 28 Def / 52 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Pretty easy to play.
Kartana after one SD is unstoppable. Gyarados is bulk enough to tank some hits and set up DD. Lele's Psychic just kills everything.