Battle Tree Discussion and Records

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About that...



Yeah, that's one of the two things Wailord4 really has going for it (the other being high-accuracy Hydro Pumps), best to play aggressively against it (its HP EV investment doesn't seem to help its bulk all that much, from my experience).
They probably meant that Gravity allows Machamp to hit Flying-type/Levitate/etc mons with Fissure. It already has perfect accuracy because of No Guard.
 
Of course, this is assuming nothing weird happens. And by "nothing weird" I mean "Gen I Pokemon come with their Hidden Abilities", which would completely butcher the idea of No Guard Fissure.

But if No Guard Fissure is possible, Scarf Machamp could be a thing.

Machamp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Fissure
- Sleep Talk

Since the whole point would be using OHKO moves on everything, it's not exactly necessary to invest on offensive stats (Timid and 0 Atk to minimize Confusion damage as always), and feel free to invest on HP or defensive benchmarks for those that still outspeed you (which is a lot BTW; Scarf Machamp only reaches 175 Speed). Sleep Talk allows for sleep absorption and PP conservation if, for some reason, you come across a faster Pokemon that has Substitute.
 
My attempt to Make Talonflame Great Again fell apart at match 41 when Toxapex was taunted by a Weavile. So I used good ol' Trick Room to get my 50+ in doubles, making my way up to 75 wins before misplaying against another TR user. They've always been annoying to face and this game isn't any different.


Oranguru (F) @ Mental Herb **Wonky Kong**
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 196 DEF / 60 SP.DEF
-Trick Room
-Instruct
-Psychic
-Protect


Hariyama (M) @ Flame Orb **Rikishi**
Nature: Brave
Ability: Guts
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 6 SP.DEF
-Fake Out
-Close Combat
-Knock Off
-Rock Slide


Araquanid (M) @ Normalium-Z **Pete Park**
Nature: Brave
Ability: Water Bubble
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 6 DEF
-Liquidation
-Leech Life
-Scald
-Stockpile


Drampa (F) @ Wiki Berry **Neck Day**
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Berserk
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SP.ATK / 6 DEF
-Hyper Voice
-Ice Beam
-Flamethrower
-Protect


The idea is simple enough:
-Turn 1, Fake Out any threats to Oranguru
-Turn 2, If Hariyama survives, Rock Slide + Instruct for flinch city or Close Combat + Instruct to guarantee a double KO if both mons are fighting weak or frail or just have Inner Focus
-Turn 3, Repeat until you're winner

But sometimes the mon I didn't Fake Out will have a strong enough psychic, fairy, or flying move to KO Hariyama, in which case Araquanid comes in with Liquidation + Instruct or Drampa with Hyper Voice + Instruct. Araquanid has Normalium-Z because Z-Stockpile is neat, getting +1 defenses along with full HP recovery. I'm sure there are better options like maybe Waterium-Z to go full offense and blow back just about anything non-resistant and replacing Stockpile with Crunch or Protect. Drampa's Hyper Voice is decently strong but somewhat lacking before that Berserk boost. Wiki Berry lets it recover HP and potentially get another Berserk boost if it gets serious enough.

AR8W-WWWW-WWW4-7B3F - Battle #76
The loss. Enemy TR teams are always awkward match-ups and I haven't figured out how to play around them with this team yet. The first misplay was leaving Hariyama in after Conk revealed itself to be the Iron Ball set. 9 times out of 10 Conk flings its Iron Ball at Oranguru which isn't enough to OHKO it without a crit so I used Fake Out on Steelix in case it tried to Quick Claw Explosion. Conk using Superpower in 'Yama completely caught me off guard and I didn't know what to do about it. After TR went up it just killed 'Yama and it went downhill from there. Audino came and undid my TR, Jellicent walled A-nid and Drampa, and I was cocky enough to assume A-nid would survive a Stone Edge.

I'll try again after getting the super multis stamp. I may throw in A-Marowak or Tapu Fini somewhere because Thunder Wave is still really annoying.
RIP Talonflame... Seriously though why GF nerf gale wings is beyond me. IMO in previous gen Gale Wings Talonflame was great but not OP since we have counter for that. Anyone realize that no one is using Talonflame anymore competitively (battlespot/ rating battles) even though you can catch it in game and even there's in game trade for Gale Wing Talonflame available (no need for SOS hunting for HA). Sigh

I had much success using different trick room team back in ORAS. If I may speak for your team I'd make change to Hariyama EV spread. Since Yama HP is already very high, adding EV to HP is not that good investment. Better put it into def and/ or sp def so that Yama can take more hits (since yama def/ sp def is suck). I read somewhere that you'll get more bulk if you spend it into def/ sp def in a pokemon which already has high HP. Also I think guts is getting an upgrade this gen since burn only reduce 1/16 HP so no more question regarding toxic/ flame orb.

TR team idea for example vikavolt, A morowak (rockhead flare blitz? paralysis in TR team actually not that crazy), M-Slowbro, A-Exeguttor (mix set), A-Golem (explosion galvanize is nice with telepathy oranguru or in you case click protect when you use it). And maybe electric & grass coverage if you want to handle bulky water type, since you'll encounter it often (water type is no 1 common type after all in all pokemon).
 

Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
is a Contributor Alumnus
I was going to postpone any serious Battle Tree attempt until Pokemon Bank's release (giving me access to Durant and Aron), but I (very spitefully) tried it anyway without them. Got 50 wins in Super Singles.

Q5NG-WWWW-WWW4-9E5T

Team:



Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Substitute
- Roost

Main sweeper. Usually, against physical attackers, you can just set up thanks to pre-Mega Intimidate, unless they have a super effective attack, in which case you use some combination of Chansey Growl + switching around to PP stall, especially against Metagross leads (but chances are that Clear Body will make it difficult to stall out Meteor Mash, so you'll probably have to use Mimikyu to revenge kill in that case.)



Mimikyu @ Fairium Z
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw

Back-up sweeper, revenge killer, and all-around annoyance. Fairium Z is there mainly because Play Rough is ass, but in general, having 175 BP STAB is really nice on something with as mediocre of an Attack stat as Mimikyu. Disguise can both allow you a free turn of set-up and/or a free revenge kill turn.



Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Growl
- Minimize
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Honestly, I wasn't sure about using Chansey without Seismic Toss either. However, Mimimize can cheese out some wins and it can just sit around and Toxic stall the opponent. That being said, it really wants to have Seismic Toss to not be supreme Taunt bait, but Chansey nonetheless fills a niche of being a catch-all special wall while also being able to PP stall basically any move thanks to Growl's 64 PP.


I'll try to get more replays up with this team, but it's like 2 AM and I gotta get some sleep now.
 
Shoul I use MegaMence or MegaGyara together with Arcanine? I'm leaning to MegaGyara rn since stacking rock weakness is bad since everything has EdgeQuake
 

Level 51

the orchestra plays the prettiest themes
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SCL Champion
Posting a completed Super Doubles streak of 485. Unfortunately wasn't able to hit the big 500, so once again I can't even use the tweet idea which R Inanimate posted. The battle video of #486 can't be uploaded since it contains a bunch of post-bank Pokemon, I assume, but instead you can watch a cute video of me beating Colress on battle #280 at [HV9W-WWWW-WWW4-9NJS].



"I said I’d give it everything I had, but when you lose, you have regrets." - Youngster Napoleon

Similar team to my last streak, which was in turn based off turskain's team of Pheromosa / Tapu Lele / Tapu Koko / Celesteela. Most of the sets are exactly the same, so I'll refer to the sets from the previous post:


Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Lunge
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Protect

UB-02 Bait. While the idea of having Pheromosa is to bait attacks from the AI, it doesn't really work as well as one might expect it to, supposedly a byproduct of an improved AI. The one time I've found the baiting strategy to be of any use is, of course, when Pheromosa is at 1HP. Notably, even though the baiting strategy doesn't really work as the centrepiece of the team anymore, Pheromosa is still a really good lead, with its great Fighting / Ice coverage and also a strong STAB Bug move to put big damage into most (Psychic-type) Trick Room setters so my team doesn't take a big deficit on Turn 1 of the game by going into the twisted dimensions. The ability to psuedo-redirect attacks once Pheromosa is down to its Focus Sash is basically just the icing on the cake.

Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Protect

Tapu Lele is the bulky nuke for this team. Terrain-boosted Shattered Psyche KOs almost every single Pokemon in the Tree which doesn't resist it, with the exceptions being super bulky things like Suicune or Blissey and flat out dumb sets like Darmanitan-3:

Sassy @ Assault Vest | Psychic | Earthquake | Flare Blitz | Overheat | Def/SpD

Anyway, Lele is great; takes most hits like a champ and puts big damage into things. I'm honestly not really sure how to describe its role on the team or how it functions because apparently after 195 games I'm still not exactly sure myself. Oh well.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Protect

Salamence was the main change I made this time, using it over Tapu Koko in order to have a fast-moving backup capable of dishing out powerful hits in everyone's favourite STAB flavour of Flying. It's a pretty standard set: Double-Edge are excellent for clearing the field of threats to my leads, like Durant, a lightweight, physically bulky Steel-type which resists 4/5 of my lead pair's attacking moves—Durant goes down 15 times out of 16 to a Double-Edge from Salamence even if it's at full HP. While running Dragon Dance and Double-Edge seems rather redundant, I barely ever had a good opportunity to set up Dragon Dance (maybe while an opponent is halfway through Phantom Force or Sky Drop, or in front of some Double Team users), so I much preferred Double-Edge's immediate damage output over Return or Facade. Earthquake is just Salamence's best coverage move, though it can be annoying to have to Protect or Wide Guard while using Earthquake, especially if my partner is at low HP.

The Speed EVs hit a Speed stat of 187, which speed ties with Hawlucha-1 and Hawlucha-4, neither of which pose a significant threat to my team, while still outrunning Salazzle-1, Salazzle-2 and Salazzle-3 (185 Speed stat), which threaten both my leads with super-effective hits. I'd have used a Speed stat of 186 but you literally can't hit that thanks to how Natures work. The rest of the EVs are dumped into bulk for a minor increase in bulk—but in the Tree, any bulk is good bulk.

Other than the EVs and the moves, there's not much to say about this set, except that I kind of wish that I had access to Hyper Voice for its excellent spread damage (also in Flying flavour). I suppose that's the next change I'll make to this team going into the post-Pokebank era.


Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpA / 36 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Aegislash was the main change I made over turskain's team, mainly because I didn't want to go get another Celesteela and EV it and stuff, so I just got an Aegislash from a friend. Wide Guard is really nice for this team, since it helps to patch my matchup against Ground-types (essentially just Earthquake) and Best Move In The Game™ Rock Slide. That's really about it. STAB Shadow Ball was also pretty nice for getting big damage onto Psychic types once Pheromosa was down, I guess. Not much to say about this Pokemon, but it does help with the team's overall bulk so it isn't a team of 4 pieces of paper defensively.

I lost to Veteran Kikujiro, with his team of Heat Rotom / Thundurus / Raikou / Zapdos. This isn't too threatening a team by any means, but it is annoying in the sense that Salamence is incapable of doing a ton of damage to many of the Pokemon. In this game, the Zapdos was revealed to be Zapdos-2...

Zapdos-2: Bold @ Bright Powder | Charge Beam | Ancient Power | Double Team | Roost

...which, of course, set up one Double Team and proceeded to dodge most of my next few attacks. I was hoping to stall out its 15 PP of attacking moves, but by that point in the game I didn't have enough resources left, and when Charge Beam kept getting boosts and my attacks kept missing I knew my streak was over. Most frustratingly, I got a Special Defense drop on the Zapdos and then prematurely celebrated when I got another hit in, only to see its HP bar stop moving at a sliver of health before it decided to Roost its health back up. From there on it nailed my Salamence with a couple of Ancient Powers and my Aegislash with a series of Charge Beams, setting up exactly one more Double Team in the process to lower my chances of hitting it from 0% to 0%.

It's a disappointing way to go out, but definitely could have been circumvented by more cautious preservation of Tapu Lele, especially its perfect-accuracy Z-Move. Admittedly, I was kind of rushing through games in order to hit the big 500 so I could post the aforementioned tweet, but it wasn't to be.

As of now I guess this is the highest streak recorded in this thread. I'm actually enlisting in the army tomorrow, so I won't have access to my 3DS for about three weeks, in which time I fully expect someone to hit 500 or 700 or even 1000. It's been a good run with this team and I'm really excited to be able to grab this position, if even for a few days, especially since this is my first return to the Battle facilities since my last personal best of 230+ in the Battle Maison in 2014. Maybe I'll hold the pre-bank title, maybe not; I did my best, and while I still have regrets about how that ended, it's good enough for now. See you all again back atop the Tree, as always.

edit: Tapu Lele was listed as having a Bold nature. It's actually Modest.
 
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No more advice ? :)
After seeing your team, if I can make some suggestion:
- give Koko volt switch or U-turn (U-turn is better since it can strike every pokemon where volt switch has no effect on ground type and your Koko is quirky so U-turn is on neutral power) so you'll not lose momentum if you meet with match up that is not favorable for your Tapu Koko. Or give protect since this is double battle and protect is utility move to lure opponent, scout, & defend against fake out user.
- try to find rough skin garchomp since sand veil is not a good ability in non sand team. Rough skin could save you for example against focus sash or low health opponent that attack you. It could save you a turn for attacking on the same slot.
- if you want to replace Goodra to water type, there's not a lot of choice pre-bank. My suggestions are: Tapu Fini if u're okay with 2 terrain setter & 2 fairy (good ability in misty surge, you need to scrap dragon claw though since dragon attack is cut 50 %, but you also reduce 1 of garchomp weakness too. IMO dragon claw is not that good since it only effective against dragon so it would not give you coverage. Dragon attack is good with high BP such as outrage or draco meteor since it provide raw power & stab), Vaporeon so that your team have some bulk (but wish is not available now I think) or sniper Kingdra (but 2 weakness to dragon & fairy is not good). For Mega slot: mega gyarados (intimidate & immunity against ground move equal to free switch with Koko), or Mega Slowbro (very good def and offensive capability after set up).
- Give celesteela flamethrower to handle Scizor, ferrothorn, etc (your celesteela's nature is sassy so special move still OK). I try to fit in fire coverage to every team, since fire poke available is not good IMO.

Although IMO maybe you ought to find other type (not water type) and give them water move (if you really need to have water coverage) since you already have celesteela which weak to electric & you have electric terrain active as well. Maybe porygon 2 for bulk and support (or porygon z for offensive team w/ shadow ball + ice beam), mega Lucario (special / phisical set your choice), mega gengar, weavile, etc. I'm just throwing ideas here, you need to check the synergy between mons.
 
Who gets trageted more turn 1, Koko or Garchomp? I'm guessing Tapu Koko, in which case it should have Protect over Discharge/Thunderbolt. Koko can Protect turn 1 while Garchomp fires on an EQ to soften both targets. Turn 2 Koko can attack one or both softened targets with Thunderbolt/Discharge and Garchomp can pick off the other one with Dragon Claw.

Celesteela can switch into Ground attacks for Koko, while Garchomp covers the Fire and Electric weakness it comes with. Celesteela can switch into Fairy and Dragon for Garchomp, but nothing to cover the Ice weakness. Something like Primarina seems like it would work well. It can take Ice and Dragon attacks for Garchomp and Garchomp can cover the Electric and Poison weakness for it. Celesteela can cover the Grass and Posion weakness too.



Misty Terrain is a defensive benefit, so the Pokémon getting attacked needs to be grounded to get the benefit.

Electric Terrain is offensive, so the Pokémon attacking needs to be grounded.
No.

Terrain works this way:
- Electric boosts Electric damage from grounded Pokemon. Grounded Pokemon cannot fall asleep.
- Grassy boosts Grass damage from grounded Pokemon. Grounded Pokemon get Leftovers-like recovery.
- Psychic boosts Psychic damage from grounded Pokemon. Grounded Pokemon cannot be hit by priority moves.
- Misty reduces Dragon damage dealt to grounded Pokemon. Grounded Pokemon cannot suffer from status ailments.
Thanks very much guys, appreciate the explanation!

---

Meanwhile, I've managed to clear Super Doubles today. Wanted to build around Tapu Fini again, but in my initial team building I found that she doesn't give me enough offensive pressure if I put her in a starting slot. In the end I figured out a team that could utilise her in the backline:


Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Jump Kick
- Lunge
- Ice Beam
- Quick Guard
Outspeeds almost everything, hits hard and distracts opponents from attacking Gyarados. Quick Guard is great against Fake Out users who usually go for Gyarados. Usually KOed by end of second turn but she's earned her Pokeball break by then.


Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
First turn sub or dance depending on opponent. If up against an Electric pokemon, switch out to Flygon. Mega evolving or not depends on whether Flying or Dark type is better, and whether the Atk stat bump is worth it. Mega evolving also allows for Misty Terrain protection. Have never used Gyarados in all my years of Pokemon (2003 on) so am really impressed by his durability and power!


Flygon @ Groundium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Dance
Comes in against Electric Pokemon and Tectonic Rage them to oblivion. Didn't pull off a single Dragon Dance through 50 matches, so maybe Protect might have been better.


Tapu Fini @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Taunt
Not a fan of Muddy Water's accuracy but it helped finish the job quite a few times. Swopped Leftovers for Sitrus Berry about 10+ matches in for instant recovery, since most matches end within 5 to 6 turns with this hyper offensive team.

Battle 50: 22LW-WWWW-WWW4-9PUX

It was a very smooth run, no major scares and after battle 30, I played by consulting Serebii's trainer guide to make sure I didn't make any stupid moves. Knowing that the opponent has Protect or carries a Focus Sash was very helpful.

Now for Super Multi. My best scouted partner so far is Cynthia with Mega Lucario and Expert Belt Togekiss. Will give that a go first...
 
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After seeing your team, if I can make some suggestion:
- give Koko volt switch or U-turn (U-turn is better since it can strike every pokemon where volt switch has no effect on ground type and your Koko is quirky so U-turn is on neutral power) so you'll not lose momentum if you meet with match up that is not favorable for your Tapu Koko. Or give protect since this is double battle and protect is utility move to lure opponent, scout, & defend against fake out user.
- try to find rough skin garchomp since sand veil is not a good ability in non sand team. Rough skin could save you for example against focus sash or low health opponent that attack you. It could save you a turn for attacking on the same slot.
- if you want to replace Goodra to water type, there's not a lot of choice pre-bank. My suggestions are: Tapu Fini if u're okay with 2 terrain setter & 2 fairy (good ability in misty surge, you need to scrap dragon claw though since dragon attack is cut 50 %, but you also reduce 1 of garchomp weakness too. IMO dragon claw is not that good since it only effective against dragon so it would not give you coverage. Dragon attack is good with high BP such as outrage or draco meteor since it provide raw power & stab), Vaporeon so that your team have some bulk (but wish is not available now I think) or sniper Kingdra (but 2 weakness to dragon & fairy is not good). For Mega slot: mega gyarados (intimidate & immunity against ground move equal to free switch with Koko), or Mega Slowbro (very good def and offensive capability after set up).
- Give celesteela flamethrower to handle Scizor, ferrothorn, etc (your celesteela's nature is sassy so special move still OK). I try to fit in fire coverage to every team, since fire poke available is not good IMO.

Although IMO maybe you ought to find other type (not water type) and give them water move (if you really need to have water coverage) since you already have celesteela which weak to electric & you have electric terrain active as well. Maybe porygon 2 for bulk and support (or porygon z for offensive team w/ shadow ball + ice beam), mega Lucario (special / phisical set your choice), mega gengar, weavile, etc. I'm just throwing ideas here, you need to check the synergy between mons.
Thanks for your answer :)

I think i'll try something like that :


>Lead<
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability : Electric Surge
EVs : 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Quirky Nature
-Thunderbolt > U-Turn
-Discharge
-Dazzling Gleam
-Grass Knot


>Lead<
Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability : Sand Veil (I don't know how to get a Rough Skin Garchomp :( )
EVs : 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
-Protect


Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability : Regenerator Own Tempo > Shell Armor ( Again, i don't know how to get a Regenerator Slowbro )
EVs : 252 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 4 Spe ( I'm not sure if it's the best )
Modest Nature
-Scald
-Psychic
-Ice Beam
-Slack Off



Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability : Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp. Def / 4 Def
Sassy Nature
-Leech Seed
-Heavy Slam
-Protect
-Substitute > Flamthrower

I'll try that and see if i can win 50+ fights :)
 
Just reached the 50 battles (ongoing streak) in doubles battles. Here is the team I used:


Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Calm Nature
- Trick Room
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
-Triattack


Araquanid @ Idrium z
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Leech life
-Poison Jab


Pelipper @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpD / 120 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- Roost


Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison touch
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Def
Impish Nature
- Poison jab
- Protect
- Minimiza
- Knock off


Leaders:

Porygon2, Araquanid

Analisys:

Trick room team with rain support. I use the rain (switching in Pelipper) only to remove sunlight or occasionally to ruin the strategy of other wheater teams. Most often I protect the first turn with Araquanid and I try to set the trick room with Porygon2.
I reached the 50 battles (ongoing streak) with this team but I think I'm very far from a very reliable team. I have four bulky slow pokemon that help very much under trick room but not very useful in the other cases. Porygon is a wonderful pokemon but need a support from the partner and Araquanid don't do this job very well.
Araquanid is a solid attacker and I don't want to renounce to him. I use waterfall and not liquidation because I want the 20% of flinch. Leech life hit harder and is the only possibility to recover.

Pelipper is the weaker pokemon of the team and go down very fast in many situation. Is a candidate for leave his place but: has drizzle, has hurricane (useful to destroy fighting type very common in the tree), has roost, has ice beam to hit dragon types. Perfect movepool for me.

Muk save me in a pair of situation. I use minimize every time I see the rest of the team is falling too fast. He can win one vs two if opponents don't have ground moves.

In this moment I don't see how improve this team. Next battles will certainly show me the many weaknesses this team still have. Anyway, very funny to play. I've seen someone using Porygon2 and Gengar as leaders and the z-destiny bond to support trick room. I think could be a good idea...
 
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So I saw a friend doing doubles in the battle tree without tapus,UBs, megas so I decided to try some new pokes out in singles and it's worked pretty well. Currently at 55 streak.
Lead-
Porygon2 @ eviolite
252 hp/spdef 4 speed
Tri-attack
Toxic
Recover
Confide
(Special defensive wall. Confide helps a lot surprisingly.)

Alomomola-Aka Big Luvdisc
@Kee berry -Impish
252 hp/252 defense 4spdef
Toxic
Whirlpool
Soak
Wish
This things physical bulk is surprising. It can easily take 4 neutral physical hits from almost anything. I usually soak first to eliminate stab so I know I can survive if they get a crit. Wish/toxic stall after that.

Aegislash@leftovers
Sassy 252 hp 252 spdef 4 atk
Kings shield
Swords dance
Shadow sneak
Sacred sword
Slash was probably the least used Pokemon on my streak to 50. He was mainly used to stall certain moves that could damage the other two mons significantly.

This was originally a post on a Facebook group that has very inexperienced players so if you pros see anything to change let me know.
 
A few pages back I saw someone mention Z-Refresh Tapu Fini to make up for its lack of recovery. After educating myself a bit more on Z stauts moves, doesn't Haze give the same effect except having a much more relevant primary effect as opposed to refresh on a Misty Surge pokemon? I could see a set of Moonblast/Surf/Haze/Ice Beam do work with Icium Z which even gives it some flexibility. Subzero Slammer kills some dragons that easily survive Moonblast or non-boosted Ice Beam too.

EDIT: In fact, Z-Psych Up also has the healing effect and could be used with Psychium Z on sets where CM is preferred over Ice Beam. Z-CM resets stats and then gives you the usual CM boost, so that seems better than using Normalium Z for just Refresh.

Unless I'm completely missing something here. In that case, my apologies.
 
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The idea was to not reset your own boost when you heal so you can get 1 CM and then heal up and sweep, and Haze and Psych Up both reset boosts(Psych up doesn't just add their positive changes to your stats like Spectral Thief, it actually resets your boosts, and also it copies their negative changes too.) However, I will propose an alternative - Mist. Blocking stat drops, while situational, is more useful than the rare case when Tapu Fini gets itself Paralyzed or Poisoned. Additionally, Mist makes you even more hax-proof by making Shadow Ball unable to cancel out your Calm Minds or preventing Defense drops from some moves.
 
That is fair, ignore the second idea with Z Psych Up then. However, when not planning to use CM anyway the Icium alternative with both Haze (for annoying Double Teamers and random boosts) and an ice move seem like a viable alternative. May just be me, but I generally have concerns with defensive boosting moves in the battle facilities due to how bad a critical hit can be. I used Suicune before and it was sometimes able to mitigate one crit, however, it also has significantly better defenses as well as a repeatable and reliable recovery move, both of which Fini doesn't. I see its role more like a 'Come in and always beat what you switched into 1v1', then see what happens next and potentially switch back out' -type of pokemon.

I'm not sure what move would be the best on a Fini that goes full Suicune style and tries to sweep with Calm Mind boosts. The setup may take enough time that being able to cure status may be the better alternative in the end. Either way, I like the Ice one and I'll test that first.
 
Alright, here's the team:




Silvally @ Wide Lens ***ChaosLemures
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 44 Def / 196 SpA / 52 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Parting Shot


Before going any further, let me just say my Silvally's stats here are sub-optimal. I picked up a Quiet Silvally because I intended to create some sort of bulky Assault Vest set with it for VGC. Instead, I found myself using it here in the Battle Tree. Running Modest at the very least would be better. Running a Defense or Special Defense boosting nature like Calm or Bold and investing fully into defenses would also make a good recommendation. However, even with the stat set up being sub-optimal, it at least didn't stop my Silvally from executing what it needed to.

The general idea here is to Thunder Wave the opponent, then Parting Shot to weaken them for Salamence to set up a sweep, or for Aegislash to eliminate the active Pokemon while taking minimal damage. Thunderbolt was used specifically to hit Bisharp or Milotic as they are risky to use Parting Shot against. Toxic was originally for Raikou-3, but came in handy in a few other situations throughout the run, usually as a way to corner a mon trying to set up and stay healthy with Recover or Roost. Why I needed it for Raikou-3 was because the Raikou cannot be paralyzed, has Thunder Wave to debilitate my Salamence, and has both Calm Mind and Charge Beam allowing it to boost up and become out of control in the long run. But since it takes a good 10 or so Turns before it gets out of control, Toxic keeps the damage from the Raikou well contained.

Wide Lens is crucial for comfort for using this team. While there is still that 1% chance I can miss with Thunder Wave (which happened about 6 or 7 times in 450 games), it still makes Thunder Wave into a move I can rely on repeatedly, game after game.

Salamence @ Salamencite ***WickedFlight
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Roost


While I haven't been following what has been used lately in Singles, it doesn't take much to know that Mega Salamence is completely busted. EVs in Atk to get a bonus stat point. EVs in Speed to hit 143, outspeeding neutral Base 90s. Everything else into HP and Special Defense bulk.

Parting Shot support can let Salamence drop down a sub and not have it immediately broken by the opponent's attacks. Once I'm able to do that, it is pretty easy to constantly maintain a Sub up while Roosting back HP and slowly building up Dragon Dances. Once the music stops and Salamence is done dancing, there is very little in the way to stop it from running over everything with Aerilate boosted Returns.

While it's usually safe and easy to max out to +6 DD, I found myself fine stopping at +4 before going on the offense. Against some trainers, who are less likely to have bulky Rock- or Steel-type Pokemon, I can get away with fewer dances. Against certain trainers who are more likely to have Flying-type resists I'll go for the full +6.

It's important to know not to immediately Mega Evolve Salamence and instead take advantage of switching to cycle Intimidates before finally committing to set up. This will be talked about a bit more later on.

Aegislash @ Leftovers ***BLADE BEAM
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 84 SpA / 156 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield


12 Speed EVs to outspeed Tyranitar-4 by 1. 84 SpA for a bonus point of SpA, and the rest added into HP and SpDef.

Aegislash is pretty fun to use in Single Tree, and is a complete monster once it can get behind a Sub. After a Parting Shot to the opponent, Aegislash's Subs will often tank various STAB 90 power moves. And while it may take around 10 turns to do so, it can pretty much take out the opponent while having a Sub up, and still be at around 80~90% of its HP. While it does mean the opponent's active mon is no longer one that is debiliated by Thunder Wave or Parting Shot, being up 3v2 with my team being in good health, and with an active sub for Aegislash is often more than enough to maintain momentum for a win.


Using the Team:

To put simply:


The ability to switch around is very important for this team. Salamence has Intimidate, Silvally has Parting Shot, and Aegislash has an excellent set of resistances. Silvally's Ghost-type immunity, and Salamence's Ground-type immunity also creates a lot of situations for Aegislash to safely switch back out, allowing the team to cycle usage of Parting Shot and Intimidate. Ultimately, the ideal goal is to set up a situation where the opponent cannot break Salamence's Substitute, and then set up the Salamence sweep. But the team is a bit more flexible in not always needing to commit to trying to force the opportunity. Don't be afraid to just use Aegislash to safely knock out a Pokemon and create yourself a lead instead of putting in a great amount of resources to force an opportunity to set up Salamence.

Risk mitigation and patience are also traits needed for running the team. Since Silvally doesn't get sacrificed in this team in order to heavily debilitate the opponent, Salamence or Aegislash will often have to switch into an oncomming attack. If you aren't careful this can lead to some disastrous results like Mence getting OHKO'd by a critical hit through -5 Atk (hello Guzma @ Battle 450). Opponents are not locked into any moves, unlike TrickScarf strategies, so it is also imporant at times to keep track of how much PP they may have remaining in their moves in order to know when it is safe.

The team is far from foolproof as some of the teams of past days. While 449 is a pretty long streak, I had plenty of close calls throughout the run where I was barely able to scrape by, and would have lost if I was any less lucky.

Some Notable Threats:

Infiltrator

Naturally, if the opponent can just ignore my Substitutes it makes setting up a lot more difficult. Watch out for opponent Chandelures, Malamar and Noiverns.

Defiant / Competitive / Contrary

They can be Thunder Wave'd at least, but be wary of trying to use Parting shot against Pokemon such as Milotic, Bisharp, Braviary, Serperior, Lurantis or Malamar. Especially be careful about using King's Shield against Malamar and Lurantis.

Raikou-3

As mentioned earlier, it can't be Thunder Waved, it has Charge Beam and Calm Mind making Parting Shot somewhat useless, it has Thunder Wave and will use it to Paralyze Mence if I try to set up on it, and it has Shadow Ball for my Aegislash. This is why Toxic is on Silvally.

Taunt

All three of my Pokemon rely on non-damaging moves so Taunt can be pretty annoying. One thing to note, however, is that the AI is extremely trigger happy with using Taunt, so this can be exploited as you can play the battle slowly and eventually KO their active mon without taking too much damage in return.

Magnezone-4

It has Volt Switch, it has Assault Vest, it is 4x resistant to Return. I'll usually Parting Shot to Aegislash, then chip away and KO it with Aegislash. Pay attention to its damage output, as it may end up having Analytic, and will need 2 Parting Shots to allow Aegislash to wall Thunderbolts with Sub.

Thunder Wave / Toxic / Will-o-Wisp

Pay attention to opponents that have status moves. Salamence can sort of just tough it out if it gets Paralyzed or Burned due to the nerfs to those status, but it's still best to avoid dealing with those things. Getting Salamence hit by Toxic though is obviously a no-go. I often try to let Silvally get hit by status so that the opponents will not try to use a status move as I switch in Salamence, then set up Substitute. Watch out for Mega Banette as it has Prankster WoW.

Charizard-4, Gyarados-4

Dragon Dance mons that can do a real number to Aegislash if they can catch me without a Sub up. I had one game where Mega Gyarados just went really wild with using Dragon Dances, so these two can be pretty dangerous.

Mega Lopunny

Normally Aegislash would be my go-to choice to switch in against Fighting moves. Not so here. It's best to switch to Mence first, bait an Ice Punch and switch to Aegislash, and let Lopunny just KO itself by HJK into King's shields.

Soundproof / Clear Body

These will block Silvally from switching out through use of Parting Shot. Fortunately, most of these mons are also easily handled by Aegislash. As such, try not to use Parting Shot against Tentacruel, Carbink, Metagross, Kommo-o, Abomasnow (if no Snow Warning), Bouffalant or Electrode

Terrakion

There's one Terrakion set that has Swords Dance. So while it may seem like a good idea to switch immediately to Aegislash to avoid a Fighting-type move, it can quickly cause the match to get ugly if Terrakion starts setting up. As such, it's better to just go for the Thunder Wave with Silvally, even though it risks the chance that it will be OHKO'd by Terrakion-1's Close Combat. All the Terrakion sets have Earthquake, making it fairly easy to cycle switches between Aegislash and Salamence to Intimidate it down before setting up the Mence Sweep.


During my play through of the Tree, I tried to note some AI Tendencies, or at least what I can recall might be different than what it was in the past:

-The AI will usually switch out immediately if they have expended all usable attacking move PP, at least of moves that can hit your active pokemon. They'll also usually switch out if they've expended all PP of a move they are choice locked into. Often times, if they DON'T switch out despite not having any effective moves, it means that their other Pokemon are easily KOable by your active mon.

-I can't remember if this was the case before, but the AI recognizes when you have a Sub up. They will not waste time throwing status moves that will get blocked by Sub. Pain Split is a rare exception to this rule.

-if they can Mega Evolve their active mon, they will always do so immediately. Sucks for Wally when he decides it's a good idea to bring Mega Garchomp, Mega Gallade, AND Mega Altaria. lol

-AI seems to love activating weather and using Taunt. I feel they put high priority into using these moves above everything outside from using a move that can KO your active mon.

-having a stat at +6 won't stop the opponent from using a boosting move that boosts multiple stats. eg. They will still use Dragon Dance if they are at +6 Speed, but not +6 Atk. However, this doesn't seem to apply for the use of Curse as they stop using that once they hit -6 Speed.

-The AI still does not recognize Return as a 102 power move, and will instead use their other attacks over use of STAB Return

-The AI's selection of moves can become a bit strange in situations where they've run out of PP of their primary move to use against your active mon. eg. vs Raikou-4, if it has run out of Thunder vs Salamence, it doesn't always stick to using Discharge, and instead randomly throws Extrasensory at me even though it is less optimal. Another one would be Nidoqueen 3 actually being more likely to use Ice Beam instead of Flamethrower against my Aegislash after it runs out of Earth Power.

-Double Battle AI is a little bit smarter when it comes to dealing with a L1 mon. From what I could tell, the faster of their two active mons (or slower of the two when TR is active, or the one that has priority moves other than Fake Out) will be provoked towards going for a KO against the L1, but the other Pokemon will still choose moves as if it isn't on kill mode (unless it's able to KO your other Pokemon).


Other Notes:

-I didn't notice this but... the Battle Tree Pokemon do not have any Battle Resort or Battle Frontier Tutor moves anymore.

-When you are past 50, you predominantly face 2 different sets (set 3 or set 4) for non-legendaries, and 4 different sets for legendaries (though not all trainers will run all 4 sets), but there are a lot more trainers that will run both set 3 and 4 of a mon.

-the RNG on what decides what trainer you face does still seem a bit strange at times like it is in XY, where you can end up facing the same few trainers repeatedly, and never see some of the other trainers. eg. I still haven't seen Anabel to recruit her for Multi Tree =(

Reaching 500 first here is still up for grabs, hopefully this post helps for people planning their future runs at the Tree. I don't think I'll be trying another run at singles in the near future, but may try to find something good for doubles.

Good Luck.
I just picked up a Bold Type:Null. When you say to invest into defenses do you mean to max out both Def and SpDef? I was considering getting a modest one instead of Bold, but since you said, "Running Modest at the very least", I took that as you saying Modest would be better than what you have now but Bold/Calm would be the best choice over all. I haven't saved after getting my Type:Null, so I could reset for a Modest one if that would actually be the better choice. If you could clear that up for me I'd really appreciate it.
 
That is fair, ignore the second idea with Z Psych Up then. However, when not planning to use CM anyway the Icium alternative with both Haze (for annoying Double Teamers and random boosts) and an ice move seem like a viable alternative. May just be me, but I generally have concerns with defensive boosting moves in the battle facilities due to how bad a critical hit can be. I used Suicune before and it was sometimes able to mitigate one crit, however, it also has significantly better defenses as well as a repeatable and reliable recovery move, both of which Fini doesn't. I see its role more like a 'Come in and always beat what you switched into 1v1', then see what happens next and potentially switch back out' -type of pokemon.

I'm not sure what move would be the best on a Fini that goes full Suicune style and tries to sweep with Calm Mind boosts. The setup may take enough time that being able to cure status may be the better alternative in the end. Either way, I like the Ice one and I'll test that first.
If you aren't running Leftovers anyway and you don't want to use Calm Mind, you might as
well run a Choice item so it has significantly more offensive utility.
 
Jeez Punk Guy Scoop let it go. This is the third time I'm facing you already and I haven't even got to 10 battles. EDIT: Now 4th. I'm a sore loser but not to this extant.
 
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Long time lurker here, salutations Smogon. I had good luck in the Maison with a Dragonite and Aegislash combo, rounded off with Greninja for singles. This generation I'm looking to substitute Greninja with Tapu Fini. I'm currently in the process of leveling Dragonite and Aegislash. Team plan is as follows:

Dragonite Lum Berry
Adamant Nature
252 Attk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch

Aegislash
Brave Nature
252 HP / 252 attk / 4 Def
-King's Shield
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword

Tapu Fini
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
-Calm Mind
-Nature's Madness
-Scald
-Ice Beam

Team is already bred, E.V. trained, and in the process of leveling. I reviewed my initial plan, however, and came to the conclusion that my offense is diaphanous at best. I've been considering making Fini more offensive with a 252 SpA / 252 HP / 4 Def spread or instead of HP invest into speed. I'm also looking for input on hold items. I was thinking a Life Orb for Fini, and a Sitrus Berry for Aegislash until I can afford a set of Leftovers.

My attempts at the Battle Tree have all ended in abject failure with the team I defeated the Elite Four with. It does seem a bit harder this go around based on the comments I've read so far. I apologize if this team is a blatant copy off of any others, I read the topic but there are 41 pages and I admittedly, didn't read every post in detail. Any other brain droppings or critiques are more than appreciated. Thank you for your time.
 
Long time lurker here, salutations Smogon. I had good luck in the Maison with a Dragonite and Aegislash combo, rounded off with Greninja for singles. This generation I'm looking to substitute Greninja with Tapu Fini. I'm currently in the process of leveling Dragonite and Aegislash. Team plan is as follows:

Dragonite Lum Berry
Adamant Nature
252 Attk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch

Aegislash
Brave Nature
252 HP / 252 attk / 4 Def
-King's Shield
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword

Tapu Fini
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
-Calm Mind
-Nature's Madness
-Scald
-Ice Beam

Team is already bred, E.V. trained, and in the process of leveling. I reviewed my initial plan, however, and came to the conclusion that my offense is diaphanous at best. I've been considering making Fini more offensive with a 252 SpA / 252 HP / 4 Def spread or instead of HP invest into speed. I'm also looking for input on hold items. I was thinking a Life Orb for Fini, and a Sitrus Berry for Aegislash until I can afford a set of Leftovers.

My attempts at the Battle Tree have all ended in abject failure with the team I defeated the Elite Four with. It does seem a bit harder this go around based on the comments I've read so far. I apologize if this team is a blatant copy off of any others, I read the topic but there are 41 pages and I admittedly, didn't read every post in detail. Any other brain droppings or critiques are more than appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Hi there, I used Tapu Fini on both my 50-streak Singles and Doubles teams ( posted earlier on this thread).

I also used Bold Fini but with Weakness Policy. Won't say my set is definitely better, but I found Moonblast essential for coverage. The occasional SpA drops also come in handy. Nature's Madness doesn't seem like it's worth a slot, at least in Singles. My Singles team: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...board-eventually.3587215/page-36#post-7168847

Good luck!
 
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Hi there, I used Tapu Fini on both my 50-streak Singles and Doubles teams ( posted earlier on this thread).

I also used Bold Fini but with Weakness Policy. Won't say my set is definitely better, but I found Moonblast essential for coverage. The occasional SpA drops also come in handy. Nature's Madness doesn't seem like it's worth a slot, at least in Singles. My Singles team: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...board-eventually.3587215/page-36#post-7168847

Good luck!
Thank you for the reply and the well wishes! Quite the oversight; I hadn't even considered Moonblast. How has damage throughput been with Weakness Policy as opposed to a Life Orb?
 
Thank you for the reply and the well wishes! Quite the oversight; I hadn't even considered Moonblast. How has damage throughput been with Weakness Policy as opposed to a Life Orb?
Tbh I didn't do any calcs on that, but I wanted my Fini to be able to bait super effective hits and retaliate hard. With the EV investment most super effective hits dealt less than 50%, and even much less if I managed to Calm Mind before that. And if no super effective hits are expected, I just Calm Mind up and sweep with the best move (usually it's Moonblast). :)
 

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