Battle Tree Discussion and Records

I've lurked around this and the Battle Maison thread for awhile hoping to get a streak of 200 at the Battle Maison Super Singles (gave up on that) and now the Battle tree.

Instead of just a team, I'd like to go through a bunch of Pokemon I've trained for the Tree and get some expert opnions on how best they can be used, built up so many, and I figure the replies to this post could also help a lot of other people trying to get a big streak too. So here goes:

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs 252 Atk/252 Spe
Adamant
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Punch
-Aqua Jet/Roost (?)
-D. Dance

Just got this guy yesterday and looking at earlier in the thread (and Battle Masion experience) he will be invaluable. I run Dragon Claw because I worry about getting stuck in Outrage. If a Fairy or Steel comes out, I'm screwed because I won't be able to switch. Fire gives almost perfect coverage, but is especially useful for Scizor/Ferrothorn/Escaviler/Abomasnow and etc. Not sure if it is better to run him as a straight sweeper or if I should make him more bulky. If I go the bulky route I pretty much have to give him Leftovers to stay in longer (and switch to Roost). Aqua Jet is basically there to take up space until I figure which move would work best for his fourth (ideas?)

Garchmop @ Focus Sash
Ability Sand Veil (wrong one, don't have patience to find & train another)
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Fang
-EQ
-Swords Dance

The other dragon I use, pretty straight forward. Set up Swords, hit with most effective move. Prefer using Focus Sash as it has gotten me out alot of close calls, plus almost guarantess 1 SD before I attack. I have heard of people using Flamethrower on him, but wouldn't that be weak? Sure, the move itself is more powerful, but with no investment, nor good stats in Sp. Atk it wouldn't be more effective would it?

Mega Metagross
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Bullet Punch
-Zen Headbutt
-Meteor Mash
-Hammer Arm

Wasn't sold on MegaGross at 1st, but man, this guy is a beast! Incredible power with no setup and a strong STAB priority! Manages to take hits pretty well too. I thought about using EQ on him but after trying out Hammer Arm, I'm definitely stick with it unless someone can give me a damn good reason to use EQ. It destroys so many Steel/Normal/Rock/Ice types and sometimes Dark in the right situation! Only problem is covering his weaknesses. Maybe try an Umbreon on his team at some point?

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
-Shadow Sneak
-Swords Dance
-Kings Shield
-Sacred Sword

Not much to say here.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive (wrong one)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Calm Nature
-Scald (PP Maxed)
-Toxic
-Recover (PP Maxed)
-Ice Beam (PP Maxed)

I love this pokemon! So far it is the only one that helped me get past 50 (with Garchomp and I forget the other, wish I saved the battle). Got this spread from trying to find 12 Pokemon that would help rack up wins in the Pokemon World Tournament in Black 2/White 2. With Tanks/Walls I would give them a nature that increased their highest stat, then Max out HP and whatever other defensive stat. Worked great! This thing beat 2 of Red's Pokemon! One them a Mega Venusaur! Burned it, then just used Recover until it ran out of moves!

Realizing my post is already really long, so I'll list the rest in short form and just take suggestions for builds/move sets.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 Def/ 252 Sp. Def
Impish Natrue

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite/Sitrius Berry
Ability: Intimidate/Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers/Choice Specs (?)
Ability: Misty Surge
IVs: 31/Decent/31/31/Pretty Good/Pretty Good
EVs HP 252 / Def 252
Modest Nature
(Not sure how to best utilize this one)

Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

Mega Gengar
Ability: Cursed Body / Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature


Seeing as I listed so many, maybe after getting feed back this could be use as a guide for players starting out for Battle Tree just like the Maison? Anyways, any and all help appreciated!

EDIT: The forum isn't allow me to post normally with the Rich Text Editor, any reason why?
 
I've lurked around this and the Battle Maison thread for awhile hoping to get a streak of 200 at the Battle Maison Super Singles (gave up on that) and now the Battle tree.

Instead of just a team, I'd like to go through a bunch of Pokemon I've trained for the Tree and get some expert opnions on how best they can be used, built up so many, and I figure the replies to this post could also help a lot of other people trying to get a big streak too. So here goes:

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs 252 Atk/252 Spe
Adamant
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Punch
-Aqua Jet/Roost (?)
-D. Dance

Just got this guy yesterday and looking at earlier in the thread (and Battle Masion experience) he will be invaluable. I run Dragon Claw because I worry about getting stuck in Outrage. If a Fairy or Steel comes out, I'm screwed because I won't be able to switch. Fire gives almost perfect coverage, but is especially useful for Scizor/Ferrothorn/Escaviler/Abomasnow and etc. Not sure if it is better to run him as a straight sweeper or if I should make him more bulky. If I go the bulky route I pretty much have to give him Leftovers to stay in longer (and switch to Roost). Aqua Jet is basically there to take up space until I figure which move would work best for his fourth (ideas?)

Garchmop @ Focus Sash
Ability Sand Veil (wrong one, don't have patience to find & train another)
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Fang
-EQ
-Swords Dance

The other dragon I use, pretty straight forward. Set up Swords, hit with most effective move. Prefer using Focus Sash as it has gotten me out alot of close calls, plus almost guarantess 1 SD before I attack. I have heard of people using Flamethrower on him, but wouldn't that be weak? Sure, the move itself is more powerful, but with no investment, nor good stats in Sp. Atk it wouldn't be more effective would it?

Mega Metagross
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Bullet Punch
-Zen Headbutt
-Meteor Mash
-Hammer Arm

Wasn't sold on MegaGross at 1st, but man, this guy is a beast! Incredible power with no setup and a strong STAB priority! Manages to take hits pretty well too. I thought about using EQ on him but after trying out Hammer Arm, I'm definitely stick with it unless someone can give me a damn good reason to use EQ. It destroys so many Steel/Normal/Rock/Ice types and sometimes Dark in the right situation! Only problem is covering his weaknesses. Maybe try an Umbreon on his team at some point?

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
-Shadow Sneak
-Swords Dance
-Kings Shield
-Sacred Sword

Not much to say here.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive (wrong one)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Calm Nature
-Scald (PP Maxed)
-Toxic
-Recover (PP Maxed)
-Ice Beam (PP Maxed)

I love this pokemon! So far it is the only one that helped me get past 50 (with Garchomp and I forget the other, wish I saved the battle). Got this spread from trying to find 12 Pokemon that would help rack up wins in the Pokemon World Tournament in Black 2/White 2. With Tanks/Walls I would give them a nature that increased their highest stat, then Max out HP and whatever other defensive stat. Worked great! This thing beat 2 of Red's Pokemon! One them a Mega Venusaur! Burned it, then just used Recover until it ran out of moves!

Realizing my post is already really long, so I'll list the rest in short form and just take suggestions for builds/move sets.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 Def/ 252 Sp. Def
Impish Natrue

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite/Sitrius Berry
Ability: Intimidate/Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers/Choice Specs (?)
Ability: Misty Surge
IVs: 31/Decent/31/31/Pretty Good/Pretty Good
EVs HP 252 / Def 252
Modest Nature
(Not sure how to best utilize this one)

Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

Mega Gengar
Ability: Cursed Body / Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature


Seeing as I listed so many, maybe after getting feed back this could be use as a guide for players starting out for Battle Tree just like the Maison? Anyways, any and all help appreciated!

EDIT: The forum isn't allow me to post normally with the Rich Text Editor, any reason why?
On my Dragonite in singles I run Dragon Dance/Fire Punch/Earthquake/Outrage the Lum berry breaks it's confusion after Outrage and is great. I use the same nature and EV as yours. If you want a HA Gible and HA Mareanie I have some breedjects I can give you so you if you like.
 
Is that the best nature and spread for Battle Tree?
I'm new to customizing EV spreads so I found the initial spread online and tinkered with it. With an Impish nature and a spread of 252 HP / 4 Atk / 60 Def / 188 SpD, you hit 144 Def and 145 SpD letting you get SpD boosts off of Beast Boost. I wanted 36 Speed EVs to outspeed the 85 speed tier (Walreins) and bumped 16 more EVs into attack to better break Venusaur-Mega-4's subs, which my team has a problem with - I just took a few EVs equally from Def and SpD to do this.
 
I'm very excited to kick off the official leaderboard soon!

After reviewing current non-bank streaks, and considering the massive streak length inflation we saw in the Maison as teambuilding and play continued to improve, I believe that 100 wins is a good baseline for singles and doubles streaks, and I plan to use it as the minimum length for leaderboard eligibility.

I'll leave this here for a little to make sure there aren't any particularly striking objections, but assuming there aren't any big ones, I'll soon start the process of going through the thread and getting an initial leaderboard together.

Please do be patient with me when I do this, as going through over 40 pages of posts and linking to streaks will take a little.
First, I appreciate the time you're putting into getting all this organized and everything.

However, I think setting the benchmark as high as 100 is not a great idea.
We've seen improvements in the ai since last gen, as well as their ability to use Z moves and Mega evolutions. If anything, the Tree is more challenging than the Maison.
So why should the benchmark be raised?

Mainly, though, I think this move is not in the interest of newer, less hardcore players who wouldn't mind having their shorter, more modest streaks be showcased.
If we must raise the benchmark, why don't we, say, put it at 80 wins instead? Compromise? :-)
 

Team Rocket Elite

Data Integration Thought Entity
is a Top Researcher Alumnus
Kaphotics mentioned to me that the v1.1 patch made changes to some Battle Tree movesets.
Kommo-o-4 - Shell Smash -> Draco Meteor (Shell Smash was illegal)
"Hawlucha-5" -> "Pidgeot-1"

Hawlucha-5? There actually was no Hawlucha-5 in my data dump. It was always Pidgeot-1. My dump was from Pokemon Moon. My current theory is "Hawlucha-5" was only in Pokemon Sun and was changed to Pidgeot-1 to match Pokemon Moon.

There was also a change to the Battle Royal movesets.
Shuckle-2 - Stockpile -> Double Team (Stockpile was illegal)
 

Blitzamirin

360 no scope
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
The Kommo-o change should in theory affect everyone who partners up with a trainer who uses the Shell Smash set, which sucks because it was actually a solid win condition.

Rip Kommo-o, hopefully you will be buffed in a gen or two.
 
Playing around with Modest max speed Xurkitree and Jolly max speed Garchomp alongside Timid Orangoru with Choice Scarf using Instruct but Orangoru keeps out speeding the other two. Anyone know how much EV I should put into speed on Orangoru so it attacks just after Garchomp and Xurkitree?
 
Lost with my team of Mega Metagross, Dragonite and Milotic. Lost at battle 45 because I didn't know Azelf had Flamethrower, or what it's starts were. It's so annoying that I can't even get back to 50! Going to breed a 5 IV perfect Timid Mega Lucario w/Flash Cannon, Aura Sphere and Nasty Plot. Haven't decided on the fourth move, probably Dark pulse.

Dragonite resists everything Lucario is weak against, so hopefully that will be a big help. I'll probably through in Milotic again, but I think I might go through all the battles I lost and recorded with Pyukumuku 1st to see if it makes a better wall than Milotic.
 
Playing around with Modest max speed Xurkitree and Jolly max speed Garchomp alongside Timid Orangoru with Choice Scarf using Instruct but Orangoru keeps out speeding the other two. Anyone know how much EV I should put into speed on Orangoru so it attacks just after Garchomp and Xurkitree?
Modest Xurkitree hits 135 speed while Jolly Garchomp sits at 169, which is quite a chasm between them. You're either going to have to slow Garchomp down (defeating the purpose of it being Jolly), or pick just one of those teammates to be the designated "I want to use Instruct immediately after this one" partner. Timid Oranguru is at 88 speed even with no EVs, so if you want Xurkitree to just barely creep Oranguru, the best you can do is 89 (133 with scarf), and that costs just 4 EVs.

Moving up to 172 EVs would put it at 112 speed, or 168 after scarf--enough to land one point under Garchomp instead, but well faster than Xurkitree.
 
Modest Xurkitree hits 135 speed while Jolly Garchomp sits at 169, which is quite a chasm between them. You're either going to have to slow Garchomp down (defeating the purpose of it being Jolly), or pick just one of those teammates to be the designated "I want to use Instruct immediately after this one" partner. Timid Oranguru is at 88 speed even with no EVs, so if you want Xurkitree to just barely creep Oranguru, the best you can do is 89 (133 with scarf), and that costs just 4 EVs.

Moving up to 172 EVs would put it at 112 speed, or 168 after scarf--enough to land one point under Garchomp instead, but well faster than Xurkitree.

Thanks so much for the help
 
First, I appreciate the time you're putting into getting all this organized and everything.

However, I think setting the benchmark as high as 100 is not a great idea.
We've seen improvements in the ai since last gen, as well as their ability to use Z moves and Mega evolutions. If anything, the Tree is more challenging than the Maison.
So why should the benchmark be raised?

Mainly, though, I think this move is not in the interest of newer, less hardcore players who wouldn't mind having their shorter, more modest streaks be showcased.
If we must raise the benchmark, why don't we, say, put it at 80 wins instead? Compromise? :-)
Yeah I like this idea! with certain strategies being nerfed, as well as opponents with Z moves and every 10th battle being tricky, 100 might be a harder mark for the more casual players. That being said the difference between 70 and 100 won't matter to most on the leaderboard and I'm very excited for trying to make it either way. I'm also very curious where the bench mark will be for multi battles, with the mechanic for having an AI partner so much different this gen, and not as many players trying to go for it just yet that I've seen.
 
Would like to add, that sadly, all Battle Videos recorded in v.1.0 CANNOT be viewed on v.1.1

RIP our Video links
Damn, this is so amateurish from Gamefreak. So should I just delete all my videos?

Can the hacking scene do something about this and save us from Gamefreak's stupidity?
 
Yeah I like this idea! with certain strategies being nerfed, as well as opponents with Z moves and every 10th battle being tricky, 100 might be a harder mark for the more casual players. That being said the difference between 70 and 100 won't matter to most on the leaderboard and I'm very excited for trying to make it either way. I'm also very curious where the bench mark will be for multi battles, with the mechanic for having an AI partner so much different this gen, and not as many players trying to go for it just yet that I've seen.
Given that the special trainers use battle tower sets and often have poor or gimmick selections, every 10th battle is probably a little easier than expected.

Also multi battles are stupid.
 
Hey guys I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice for my team, I only really want to get to 50 battles but I've tried doubles 4 times now with 3 different teams and every single time I've lost on battle 44 to multiple necessary crits from them. My most recent team had no problems from any other team going into this battle but I still lost on 44 like the others. My team was:

Lead

Alolan Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability : Lightning Rod
EV : 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Protect

Lead

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability : Intimidate
EV : 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch

These two normally deal with every Pokemon on the other team, the AI always forgets about Lightning Rod and normally gives me a free turn to DDance or just take them out. Mixed with intimidate to use up White Herbs if they're on the sets and increase staying power on both mons they generally sponge around 4 neutral attacks. The only problem I've come across with this lead is Aerodactyl which spams rock slide and cause both to flinch and fast ghost and water types which I can't 2HKO that normally go straight for Marowak.

Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability : Rough Skin
EV: 252 Atk/ 4 Sp Def/ 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Protect
- Rock Slide

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability : Electric Terrain
EV : 4 HP/ 252 Sp Atk/ 252 Spd
IV : 30/31/0/31/Pretty Good/31 (Yet to be hyper trained)
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Tapu Koko needs Hyper training but it seems to destroy teams with ease especially when most of my team doesn't take damage from electric type attacks so it can spam Discharge, I was thinking about changing Life Orb to Focus Sash due to the lack of defensive IVs. I haven't made much use out of the Lum Berry on Garchomp except for confusion since every team I seem to face doesn't spread any status, if there was anything that I'd be willing to change on the team I'd say it'd be Garchomp since it puts in the least work.

I know that 3 of my Pokemon run Earthquake I was thinking about changing EQ on Gyarados to Ice Fang but I think EQ does more for the team still.

I did notice that from the start the battles were considerably harder than my previous streaks, I was seeing Z moves from the get go and frequently, whereas I normally didn't see them until battle 30. There was a hell of a lot of megas, there was a point, around battles 30-40, where I saw 4 Mega Kangaskhans and a Mega Gallade in a row. I also saw a surge in well put together weather teams around battles 15-25 which again normally started to appear at 30ish. I did use this team before but with Garchomp and Tapu Koko as a lead so I'm not sure if it is random or used data from my last streak and adapted to my team quicker.
 
I know that 3 of my Pokemon run Earthquake I was thinking about changing EQ on Gyarados to Ice Fang but I think EQ does more for the team still.
Seeing as you have two Pokemon with Earthquake, you lead Gyarados with a Fire-type Pokemon and that Gyarados has its Mega Stone... have you considered Substitute?

As long as Marowak is still alive and out, Electric attacks will not work so you may find some opportunities for a free Sub, and with Mega Gyarados's bulk...
 
Hey guys I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice for my team, I only really want to get to 50 battles but I've tried doubles 4 times now with 3 different teams and every single time I've lost on battle 44 to multiple necessary crits from them. My most recent team had no problems from any other team going into this battle but I still lost on 44 like the others. My team was:

Lead

Alolan Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability : Lightning Rod
EV : 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Protect

Lead

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability : Intimidate
EV : 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Crunch

These two normally deal with every Pokemon on the other team, the AI always forgets about Lightning Rod and normally gives me a free turn to DDance or just take them out. Mixed with intimidate to use up White Herbs if they're on the sets and increase staying power on both mons they generally sponge around 4 neutral attacks. The only problem I've come across with this lead is Aerodactyl which spams rock slide and cause both to flinch and fast ghost and water types which I can't 2HKO that normally go straight for Marowak.

Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability : Rough Skin
EV: 252 Atk/ 4 Sp Def/ 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Protect
- Rock Slide

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability : Electric Terrain
EV : 4 HP/ 252 Sp Atk/ 252 Spd
IV : 30/31/0/31/Pretty Good/31 (Yet to be hyper trained)
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Tapu Koko needs Hyper training but it seems to destroy teams with ease especially when most of my team doesn't take damage from electric type attacks so it can spam Discharge, I was thinking about changing Life Orb to Focus Sash due to the lack of defensive IVs. I haven't made much use out of the Lum Berry on Garchomp except for confusion since every team I seem to face doesn't spread any status, if there was anything that I'd be willing to change on the team I'd say it'd be Garchomp since it puts in the least work.

I know that 3 of my Pokemon run Earthquake I was thinking about changing EQ on Gyarados to Ice Fang but I think EQ does more for the team still.

I did notice that from the start the battles were considerably harder than my previous streaks, I was seeing Z moves from the get go and frequently, whereas I normally didn't see them until battle 30. There was a hell of a lot of megas, there was a point, around battles 30-40, where I saw 4 Mega Kangaskhans and a Mega Gallade in a row. I also saw a surge in well put together weather teams around battles 15-25 which again normally started to appear at 30ish. I did use this team before but with Garchomp and Tapu Koko as a lead so I'm not sure if it is random or used data from my last streak and adapted to my team quicker.
Don't know how much use you're getting from that Lum Berry on Garchomp, but you should consider Groundium Z. It will give you a strong single target option so you can double attack a Pokemon instead of needing to Protect with Koko and Marowak to use EQ. Never misses and goes through Protect(doing only 25% damage), so it has some good utility.

EDIT: Seems like you're not getting much use from the Lum. Should have read the whole post haha
 
Seeing as you have two Pokemon with Earthquake, you lead Gyarados with a Fire-type Pokemon and that Gyarados has its Mega Stone... have you considered Substitute?

As long as Marowak is still alive and out, Electric attacks will not work so you may find some opportunities for a free Sub, and with Mega Gyarados's bulk...
I'm not very experienced with Doubles, but this seems like a potentially good idea. Ice Fang is pretty pointless- Water/Dark is almost perfect neutral coverage and the only BT pokemon that Ice Fang hits that they don't are Shiftry/Breloom/Cacturne/M-Altaria/Whimsicott/Hydreigon/Virizion/Chesnaught/Shiinotic/Kommo-O. Other than Hydreigon, Kommo-o, and M-Altaria, those are all weak to dragon, and all but the three fairies are weak to Dazzling Gleam from Koko. There might be a niche use if Ice Fang gets the KO on something with a 4x weakness, but I think a different move is more likely to make a difference.

EQ also doesn't hit any of the things that resist your STAB combo super effectively, and in terms of pure-type coverage it adds Poison/Steel/Electric. Marowak takes away Electric STAB and hits Steels SE with STAB, so really only poison would be worth using up a turn protecting with Marowak. Your other team-mates are neutral and weak to ground respectively, and don't have protect, so you wouldn't even want to use EQ if Marowak goes down most of the time.

I actually might personally go taunt over sub here though. I know a lot of people have had problems with trick room in doubles, and other than A-Marowak your team is high speed and low bulk. Taunt should get you past most of the setters.

If you do get rid of EQ on Gyara, consider changing Protect to something else. WoW is decent, though in doubles probably less efficient. Bulldoze lowers both enemy's speed and doesn't hit Gyara, so might be useful for beating scarfers or other DDers. Brick Break gets rid of screens and offers a bit of coverage, which could be helpful if you want to avoid the recoil from Flare Blitz. You also don't currently have any fighting moves on the team, so it's always nice to give yourself an extra attacking type.
 
New player seeking advice for battle tree super single battle. May I know what strategies you are running against Charizard-Mega-X-4 lead? EV spreads, item and pokemon selection, and reasoning behind your selection would be greatly appreciated.Please go easy on me as I've never played pokemon competitively before.For non 252/252/4 ev spreads, may i know the justification for having such a spread(e.g need X def to survive a 1 hit ko or something along those lines, or X speed to outspeed certain pokemons and why those pokemons)

Are there any good pre-pokebank counters for charizard X(something that could switch in to it at full hp and still win)?
 
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+Def 252/252 Pelipper can take two hits with lefties, and is generally pretty bulky. If you switch out of something with a fire weakness you will take basically nothing from the Flare Blitz. Surf 2HKOs in rain, but you'll have to roost for a bit to actually win probably. Dragon Rush can 2HKO with high rolls, so it's not ideal.

Personally, I lead with Phero, and Z-HJK kills from full. If I see a lead Char I'll Sub to check set and then U-turn to Xurkitree if it uses a flying attack and HJK if it is X

Edit: If you want an actual, for SURE counter, one of the Water/Fairy pokemon is probably the surest bet. Even with no investment, they can always take two hits
 
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