Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Is it just me, or are Ice types unusually common in the Battle Tree? I nearly lost my Doubles streak to a team of Alolan Ninetales, Mamoswine, Glaceon, and Moody Glalie. No, it wasn't the Moody that gave me problems.

(Trivia Time: Moody is called "Veleta" in Spanish, which means "weathervane".)
I don't think any one type is over- or underrepresented as a whole, but if you're used to playing competitive singles a lot of Stealth Rock weak Pokemon don't register as much of a threat to you. Moltres and Volcarona are other good examples of this. Ice types definitely have a lot of inherent volatility with Snow Cloak, freezing, and Sheer Cold, which probably make them unusually memorable. Nothing's immune to them so you can't really play the switch-stalling game unless you have Chansey or a super bulky Water type with Scald.
 
Ice types are now Immune to Sheer Cold, to be clear.
I don't think I've ever seen a Battle Tree AI use an OHKO move. Do they even appear on the trainer table? Even with all the mono-Ice teams running around. One of my recent battles was against Abomasnow, Mamoswine, Moody Glalie, and Glaceon. They love to use Blizzard all the time, much like my old 4th gen Wifi Doubles team.
 
I don't think I've ever seen a Battle Tree AI use an OHKO move. Do they even appear on the trainer table? Even with all the mono-Ice teams running around. One of my recent battles was against Abomasnow, Mamoswine, Moody Glalie, and Glaceon. They love to use Blizzard all the time, much like my old 4th gen Wifi Doubles team.
I faced Walrein-4 yesterday, which tried to Sheer Cold me a few times.
 
I don't think I've ever seen a Battle Tree AI use an OHKO move. Do they even appear on the trainer table? Even with all the mono-Ice teams running around. One of my recent battles was against Abomasnow, Mamoswine, Moody Glalie, and Glaceon. They love to use Blizzard all the time, much like my old 4th gen Wifi Doubles team.
A Dugtrio-2 landed 2 Fissures on me earlier I think.
 
Alright, here's the team:




Silvally @ Wide Lens ***ChaosLemures
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 44 Def / 196 SpA / 52 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Parting Shot


Before going any further, let me just say my Silvally's stats here are sub-optimal. I picked up a Quiet Silvally because I intended to create some sort of bulky Assault Vest set with it for VGC. Instead, I found myself using it here in the Battle Tree. Running Modest at the very least would be better. Running a Defense or Special Defense boosting nature like Calm or Bold and investing fully into defenses would also make a good recommendation. However, even with the stat set up being sub-optimal, it at least didn't stop my Silvally from executing what it needed to.

The general idea here is to Thunder Wave the opponent, then Parting Shot to weaken them for Salamence to set up a sweep, or for Aegislash to eliminate the active Pokemon while taking minimal damage. Thunderbolt was used specifically to hit Bisharp or Milotic as they are risky to use Parting Shot against. Toxic was originally for Raikou-3, but came in handy in a few other situations throughout the run, usually as a way to corner a mon trying to set up and stay healthy with Recover or Roost. Why I needed it for Raikou-3 was because the Raikou cannot be paralyzed, has Thunder Wave to debilitate my Salamence, and has both Calm Mind and Charge Beam allowing it to boost up and become out of control in the long run. But since it takes a good 10 or so Turns before it gets out of control, Toxic keeps the damage from the Raikou well contained.

Wide Lens is crucial for comfort for using this team. While there is still that 1% chance I can miss with Thunder Wave (which happened about 6 or 7 times in 450 games), it still makes Thunder Wave into a move I can rely on repeatedly, game after game.

Salamence @ Salamencite ***WickedFlight
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Roost


While I haven't been following what has been used lately in Singles, it doesn't take much to know that Mega Salamence is completely busted. EVs in Atk to get a bonus stat point. EVs in Speed to hit 143, outspeeding neutral Base 90s. Everything else into HP and Special Defense bulk.

Parting Shot support can let Salamence drop down a sub and not have it immediately broken by the opponent's attacks. Once I'm able to do that, it is pretty easy to constantly maintain a Sub up while Roosting back HP and slowly building up Dragon Dances. Once the music stops and Salamence is done dancing, there is very little in the way to stop it from running over everything with Aerilate boosted Returns.

While it's usually safe and easy to max out to +6 DD, I found myself fine stopping at +4 before going on the offense. Against some trainers, who are less likely to have bulky Rock- or Steel-type Pokemon, I can get away with fewer dances. Against certain trainers who are more likely to have Flying-type resists I'll go for the full +6.

It's important to know not to immediately Mega Evolve Salamence and instead take advantage of switching to cycle Intimidates before finally committing to set up. This will be talked about a bit more later on.

Aegislash @ Leftovers ***BLADE BEAM
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 84 SpA / 156 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- King's Shield


12 Speed EVs to outspeed Tyranitar-4 by 1. 84 SpA for a bonus point of SpA, and the rest added into HP and SpDef.

Aegislash is pretty fun to use in Single Tree, and is a complete monster once it can get behind a Sub. After a Parting Shot to the opponent, Aegislash's Subs will often tank various STAB 90 power moves. And while it may take around 10 turns to do so, it can pretty much take out the opponent while having a Sub up, and still be at around 80~90% of its HP. While it does mean the opponent's active mon is no longer one that is debiliated by Thunder Wave or Parting Shot, being up 3v2 with my team being in good health, and with an active sub for Aegislash is often more than enough to maintain momentum for a win.


Using the Team:

To put simply:


The ability to switch around is very important for this team. Salamence has Intimidate, Silvally has Parting Shot, and Aegislash has an excellent set of resistances. Silvally's Ghost-type immunity, and Salamence's Ground-type immunity also creates a lot of situations for Aegislash to safely switch back out, allowing the team to cycle usage of Parting Shot and Intimidate. Ultimately, the ideal goal is to set up a situation where the opponent cannot break Salamence's Substitute, and then set up the Salamence sweep. But the team is a bit more flexible in not always needing to commit to trying to force the opportunity. Don't be afraid to just use Aegislash to safely knock out a Pokemon and create yourself a lead instead of putting in a great amount of resources to force an opportunity to set up Salamence.

Risk mitigation and patience are also traits needed for running the team. Since Silvally doesn't get sacrificed in this team in order to heavily debilitate the opponent, Salamence or Aegislash will often have to switch into an oncomming attack. If you aren't careful this can lead to some disastrous results like Mence getting OHKO'd by a critical hit through -5 Atk (hello Guzma @ Battle 450). Opponents are not locked into any moves, unlike TrickScarf strategies, so it is also imporant at times to keep track of how much PP they may have remaining in their moves in order to know when it is safe.

The team is far from foolproof as some of the teams of past days. While 449 is a pretty long streak, I had plenty of close calls throughout the run where I was barely able to scrape by, and would have lost if I was any less lucky.

Some Notable Threats:

Infiltrator

Naturally, if the opponent can just ignore my Substitutes it makes setting up a lot more difficult. Watch out for opponent Chandelures, Malamar and Noiverns.

Defiant / Competitive / Contrary

They can be Thunder Wave'd at least, but be wary of trying to use Parting shot against Pokemon such as Milotic, Bisharp, Braviary, Serperior, Lurantis or Malamar. Especially be careful about using King's Shield against Malamar and Lurantis.

Raikou-3

As mentioned earlier, it can't be Thunder Waved, it has Charge Beam and Calm Mind making Parting Shot somewhat useless, it has Thunder Wave and will use it to Paralyze Mence if I try to set up on it, and it has Shadow Ball for my Aegislash. This is why Toxic is on Silvally.

Taunt

All three of my Pokemon rely on non-damaging moves so Taunt can be pretty annoying. One thing to note, however, is that the AI is extremely trigger happy with using Taunt, so this can be exploited as you can play the battle slowly and eventually KO their active mon without taking too much damage in return.

Magnezone-4

It has Volt Switch, it has Assault Vest, it is 4x resistant to Return. I'll usually Parting Shot to Aegislash, then chip away and KO it with Aegislash. Pay attention to its damage output, as it may end up having Analytic, and will need 2 Parting Shots to allow Aegislash to wall Thunderbolts with Sub.

Thunder Wave / Toxic / Will-o-Wisp

Pay attention to opponents that have status moves. Salamence can sort of just tough it out if it gets Paralyzed or Burned due to the nerfs to those status, but it's still best to avoid dealing with those things. Getting Salamence hit by Toxic though is obviously a no-go. I often try to let Silvally get hit by status so that the opponents will not try to use a status move as I switch in Salamence, then set up Substitute. Watch out for Mega Banette as it has Prankster WoW.

Charizard-4, Gyarados-4

Dragon Dance mons that can do a real number to Aegislash if they can catch me without a Sub up. I had one game where Mega Gyarados just went really wild with using Dragon Dances, so these two can be pretty dangerous.

Mega Lopunny

Normally Aegislash would be my go-to choice to switch in against Fighting moves. Not so here. It's best to switch to Mence first, bait an Ice Punch and switch to Aegislash, and let Lopunny just KO itself by HJK into King's shields.

Soundproof / Clear Body

These will block Silvally from switching out through use of Parting Shot. Fortunately, most of these mons are also easily handled by Aegislash. As such, try not to use Parting Shot against Tentacruel, Carbink, Metagross, Kommo-o, Abomasnow (if no Snow Warning), Bouffalant or Electrode

Terrakion

There's one Terrakion set that has Swords Dance. So while it may seem like a good idea to switch immediately to Aegislash to avoid a Fighting-type move, it can quickly cause the match to get ugly if Terrakion starts setting up. As such, it's better to just go for the Thunder Wave with Silvally, even though it risks the chance that it will be OHKO'd by Terrakion-1's Close Combat. All the Terrakion sets have Earthquake, making it fairly easy to cycle switches between Aegislash and Salamence to Intimidate it down before setting up the Mence Sweep.


During my play through of the Tree, I tried to note some AI Tendencies, or at least what I can recall might be different than what it was in the past:

-The AI will usually switch out immediately if they have expended all usable attacking move PP, at least of moves that can hit your active pokemon. They'll also usually switch out if they've expended all PP of a move they are choice locked into. Often times, if they DON'T switch out despite not having any effective moves, it means that their other Pokemon are easily KOable by your active mon.

-I can't remember if this was the case before, but the AI recognizes when you have a Sub up. They will not waste time throwing status moves that will get blocked by Sub. Pain Split is a rare exception to this rule.

-if they can Mega Evolve their active mon, they will always do so immediately. Sucks for Wally when he decides it's a good idea to bring Mega Garchomp, Mega Gallade, AND Mega Altaria. lol

-AI seems to love activating weather and using Taunt. I feel they put high priority into using these moves above everything outside from using a move that can KO your active mon.

-having a stat at +6 won't stop the opponent from using a boosting move that boosts multiple stats. eg. They will still use Dragon Dance if they are at +6 Speed, but not +6 Atk. However, this doesn't seem to apply for the use of Curse as they stop using that once they hit -6 Speed.

-The AI still does not recognize Return as a 102 power move, and will instead use their other attacks over use of STAB Return

-The AI's selection of moves can become a bit strange in situations where they've run out of PP of their primary move to use against your active mon. eg. vs Raikou-4, if it has run out of Thunder vs Salamence, it doesn't always stick to using Discharge, and instead randomly throws Extrasensory at me even though it is less optimal. Another one would be Nidoqueen 3 actually being more likely to use Ice Beam instead of Flamethrower against my Aegislash after it runs out of Earth Power.

-Double Battle AI is a little bit smarter when it comes to dealing with a L1 mon. From what I could tell, the faster of their two active mons (or slower of the two when TR is active, or the one that has priority moves other than Fake Out) will be provoked towards going for a KO against the L1, but the other Pokemon will still choose moves as if it isn't on kill mode (unless it's able to KO your other Pokemon).


Other Notes:

-I didn't notice this but... the Battle Tree Pokemon do not have any Battle Resort or Battle Frontier Tutor moves anymore.

-When you are past 50, you predominantly face 2 different sets (set 3 or set 4) for non-legendaries, and 4 different sets for legendaries (though not all trainers will run all 4 sets), but there are a lot more trainers that will run both set 3 and 4 of a mon.

-the RNG on what decides what trainer you face does still seem a bit strange at times like it is in XY, where you can end up facing the same few trainers repeatedly, and never see some of the other trainers. eg. I still haven't seen Anabel to recruit her for Multi Tree =(

Reaching 500 first here is still up for grabs, hopefully this post helps for people planning their future runs at the Tree. I don't think I'll be trying another run at singles in the near future, but may try to find something good for doubles.

Good Luck.
I followed this person's team and it's not really for me since I have to predict every Pokemon's moves in the Battle tree to win. Critical hits from enemies is the most problematic to me. Plus, being patient with this team to destroy the enemies is getting to me. I lost from Guzma's Mega Pinsir with its critical hits in Super Single with win streak 10. This is making me lose hope of getting a higher win streak in Battle Tree Super Single. T-T My highest win Streak was 33 and did not use this team. I used Garchomp, Metagross, and Toxapex.
 
I followed this person's team and it's not really for me since I have to predict every Pokemon's moves in the Battle tree to win. Critical hits from enemies is the most problematic to me. Plus, being patient with this team to destroy the enemies is getting to me. I lost from Guzma's Mega Pinsir with its critical hits in Super Single with win streak 10. This is making me lose hope of getting a higher win streak in Battle Tree Super Single. T-T My highest win Streak was 33 and did not use this team. I used Garchomp, Metagross, and Toxapex.
Honestly, Salamence/Chansey/Aegislash is probably the most powerful + user friendly team.
 
I followed this person's team and it's not really for me since I have to predict every Pokemon's moves in the Battle tree to win. Critical hits from enemies is the most problematic to me. Plus, being patient with this team to destroy the enemies is getting to me. I lost from Guzma's Mega Pinsir with its critical hits in Super Single with win streak 10. This is making me lose hope of getting a higher win streak in Battle Tree Super Single. T-T My highest win Streak was 33 and did not use this team. I used Garchomp, Metagross, and Toxapex.
lol if there's any lesson to take from this it's that just because a team is #1 on the leaderboard does not mean it's the ideal team to emulate. Eventually a Durant team is going to be way up there and you're not likely to have a fun or rewarding time trying to mimick those, either.
 
lol if there's any lesson to take from this it's that just because a team is #1 on the leaderboard does not mean it's the ideal team to emulate. Eventually a Durant team is going to be way up there and you're not likely to have a fun or rewarding time trying to mimick those, either.
More that with that team, even if you could predict exactly what move the opponent is going to use, it doesn't matter if the move gets a crit or statuses - a crit from something that's paralyzed and at -6 Attack hurts just as much as one that takes place on the first turn of the battle. It's not exactly fun spending 15 turns switching back and forth between Aegislash and Salamence and using King's Shield before attacking either. Nor is it fun to repeatedly lose before battle 100 because you didn't do those things or you used a poorly-constructed team.
 
More that with that team, even if you could predict exactly what move the opponent is going to use, it doesn't matter if the move gets a crit or statuses - a crit from something that's paralyzed and at -6 Attack hurts just as much as one that takes place on the first turn of the battle. It's not exactly fun spending 15 turns switching back and forth between Aegislash and Salamence and using King's Shield before attacking either. Nor is it fun to repeatedly lose before battle 100 because you didn't do those things or you used a poorly-constructed team.
Yep, it's annoying to switch back and forth between Salamence and Aegislash, but it's carried me to 115 and I don't intend to change teams now. I'd rather lose with this team that I've gotten used to than to change and risk losing because I'm not used to the new team.
 
Posting a completed 124 streak in super doubles using kingofmars' trick room team he used to win the VGC San Jose regional found here. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-17-sample-teams.3590391/ All credit goes to him for the team.


Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Trick Room

MVP of the team. Sets Trick Room, can take hits for days and recover, and holds its own on offense, especially if it gets a Sp Atk download boost. Easily deals with Garchomp/Salamence or any other threat 4x weak to T-Bolt/Ice Beam. I try not to let it faint and recover whenever health is below 50% in case I need to set another Trick Room. Just a really great, reliable Pokemon that sits on the field the entire match.

Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Knock Off

Leads with Porygon2 and is crucial to getting Trick Room up with Fake Out. Always Fake Out Turn 1 into whatever you consider the biggest threat or any potential Taunt user. Avoiding confusion/paralysis into Porygon2 is also ideal because you need to get Trick Room up. Most times it doesn't matter who you Fake Out into, but I try to make sure to Fake Out into Flying/Psychic types to avoid Hariyama taking big hits, and then you can double into them the following turn. This also lets Flame Orb activate and makes you hit like a truck. Close Combat is your primary move and it OHKO's most things that don't resist it. Knock Off is a great secondary move that also OHKO's frail Psychic/Ghost types like Espeon, Alakazam, Gengar. Feint was never used and is pretty useless in Battle Tree because Protect isn't as common as in competitive play. Going to replace with Heavy Slam to help deal with Fairy types more easily.

Araquanid @ Waterium Z
Ability: Water Bubble
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Wide Guard
- Protect

Usually comes out if Hariyama faints. Water Bubble makes Liquidation hit much harder than Leech Life and makes it your primary attacking move. Finishes off any weakened Pokemon and can completely nuke something with Hydro Vortex. Even things that resist it aren't guaranteed to survive, especially if Rain happens to be up. Leech Life for Grass/Dark/Psychic types. Gives it some solid recovery as well. Wide Guard I don't remember using but it can come in handy against Rock Slide/Earthquake. And frankly I don't think it needs another attacking move because Liquidation already hits so hard due to Water Bubble + STAB. It hits harder than a super effective Poison Jab into Fairy types. Protect in case you want to stall out a turn or safely set up another Trick Room without taking damage.

Drampa @ Life Orb
Ability: Cloud Nine
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Energy Ball
- Protect

Least used member of the team and rarely needed it because the first 3 were usually enough to finish off battles. Still, this thing hits hard with Draco Meteor and picks up plently of OHKO's with it. Fire Blast comes in handy against bulky Grass types like Venusaur or Steel Types. Energy Ball is its most reliable move accuracy wise and lets you revenge kill something thats weak without having to worry about missing. Maybe you can run Hyper Voice over it. Don't recall any situations where I definitely needed Energy Ball. Protect to stall out turn/set up Trick Room.

Proof


Losing Battle Video: 8NGW-WWWW-WWW5-BC45

I lost to Hydreigon/Kommo-o/Latios/Mega Garchomp. Was later revealed I was up against Hydreigon-3 (Taunt) and Kommo-o. I made the colossal mistake of going for Fake Out into Kommo-o instead of Hydreigon. I was fearing a knockout by Kommo-o into Porygon2 but after running some calcs afterward realized that neither Kommo-o-3 Focus Blast or Kommo-o-4 Sky Uppercut OHKO Porygon2, even with crits. So Trick Room got denied and I was pretty much screwed. Hydreigon OHKO'd Hariyama with Devastating Drake, Porygon2 went down to 2 Outrages from Kommo-o and a Draco Meteor from Hydreigon, Araquanid got OHKO'd by Stone Edge from MegaChomp, and Drampa got OHKO'd by Outrage from Kommo-o.

Was over the moment Trick Room got denied. I win this match easily if I Fake Out into Hydreigon instead and get Trick Room up. I do admit this was the first time Trick Room got denied because Porygon2 got Taunted and maybe I could have played it differently by switching out Porygon2 after getting Taunted, although I don't think it would have mattered. I plan on trying again as this team was pretty fun to use and I believe I could have kept going with a more proper play.
 
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Completed my streak at 481 wins. A good example of 1) how much has to go wrong in terms of matchup, hax, me screwing up, and random AI move choices for this team to lose and 2) how the game will punish you (well, me at least. A lot of other players seem to get much luckier) if you do not go to extreme lengths to stall and set up completely with your strongest Pokemon. DLYG-WWWW-WWW5-2HPB

NoCheese Edit: The original team writeup is here.

So the lead was Incineroar 4 (with its 1-in-3 Hidden Ability Intimidate). A bad lead with Quick Claw, Crunch getting Defense drops, and U-turn so you can't set up on it fully. What I do is try to set up with Salamence from the start and see if I can get to something like +2 with a Sub. The first turn Quick Claw activates and Crunch gets a Defense drop (2% chance of happening), so it's on to plan B of trying to set up with Chansey by switching back and forth a few times with Aegislash to PP stall a couple Cross Chops and lower its attack further (obviously Incineroar could take down Chansey with QCs and crits, in which case I would have just gone Mega and set up Mence on -6 Attack Incineroar). Chansey gets up a Sub and some Evasion, and Incineroar eventually U-turns out into Lucario (Mega). Close Combat hits the first turn, which is ok, because I switch in Aegislash for free. At this point what I have in mind is to try to set up Aegislash, and if that doesn't work because of Blaze Kick critting multiple times or burning, awesome, because then I can set up Mence.

So that's the beginning of the mistake that led to my downfall - I had Aegislash at +6 with a weakened Incineroar (which I thought I had hit one more time with Seismic Toss than I actually had) in the back. So I thought, why not just take the free KO and go for the sweep rather than sacrifice Aegislash to let Salamence spend another 15 turns setting up when I had already spent a bunch of time stalling Incineroar for nothing (again, because of the 2% Quick Claw + Defense drop on turn 1 that made me not want to set up Salamence at the beginning)? So Incineroar comes back out, and at that point my heart sinks a bit because it's not in Shadow Sneak KO range like I thought. I King's Shield and Shadow Sneak (not wanting to risk a QC Flare Blitz) and Aegislash goes down. That's still fine because now Mence can set up on -3 Incineroar. Or so I thought - it U-Turns out on the first turn into Metagross: had it used any other move I would have easily won. If it was Metagross 3, that's fine as even if it managed to KO Salamence Chansey would finish it off with Seismic Toss and then could beat Cross-Chop-less Incineroar without too much hax. Instead, Metagross 4 (double Megas OP) hit both its Meteor Mashes, got the Attack raise the first turn, and went on to KO Chansey with +1 Brick Break.

So I had the chance to set up Mega Mence, didn't take it because I didn't want to spend 35-40 turns switching around and setting up before attacking, and due to that specific matchup and hax (how much stuff is switching in on a Mega Salamence behind a Sub and going on to take it and Chansey down? Even something like DD Tyranitar would have been preferable to a Metagross that gets an attack raise) and all the other battles I spent PP stalling things beyond what I've seen from anyone else, just to be safe, went down the drain. I honestly don't even know if there are any lessons to be learned on how to play this team from this loss because one part of me is thinking "if you can get Mence boosted behind a Sub, do it even if it means sacking Aegislash or Chansey" but the other part is thinking doing that could lead to something equally unlucky that I haven't thought of. Something along the lines of a 2nd Pokemon coming out that hits Mence with Cursed Body and a 3rd Pokemon that would normally be dealt with by whatever I sacrificed taking advantage of the free turns.

It's kind of fitting that it was Metagross this team lost to, since I theorymoned this team (with a slower Chansey) right when MegaMence was revealed but shelved it at first because I thought it didn't have a way to deal with the Maison's Metagross4. So I guess it got its revenge there for all the times in Omega Ruby it would try using Trick on Salamence 7 turns in a row like a complete dumbass lol.

That's why I've preferred the Moody setup; if any battle I don't spend 35-40 turns setting up opens me up to the possibility of that sort of hax, then I may as well use a team that forces me to play in that manner each time.
 
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Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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Sorry for your loss. You stated perfectly the unspoken challenge of shooting for a top streak—knowing that you have to spend 15 more turns playing it safe setting up Salamence, again, but not exactly wanting to. Will Incineroar just U-Turn. Is Salamence really going to lose behind a Sub at +3 or higher. It speaks to part of the insanity I spoke about in my initial post in this thread...why? Do I really have to do this? Do I really NEED to do this?

This kind of challenge is far more insidious than most people realize. You know which pokémon I'm happiest to see gone from the Maison? Luxray4. Every single time it led I rolled my eyes (or just Returned with Kanga if it was a battle before, say, 400, knowing I had a slim chance of killing) because it meant 30 turns of stalling it out of Ice Fang so I could Toxic it, without having Kanga take the Thunder Wave it used on Turn 1 100% of the time. I'm exaggerating slightly—I'm happier to see Hurrrrrrnadus nerfed than anything else, or Jynx gone, but I dreaded seeing Luxray4 more because it posed the challenge of discipline, rather than skill. But why, as you mention, do "you" have to be disciplined every single turn of every battle? When others don't have to, seemingly? Can you imagine if that one Vizually guy's streak was legitimate, in all its "I mean, like, [+2] Darkest Lariat will knock [Garchomp] out...I COULD Outrage, but I don't NEED to..." glory (go to 5:40, please)?

Keep at it—interested to see how your Durant ideas shape up. Congrats.
 
So far, my mediocre Super Doubles rain team is doing fine. Hopefully I can at least get to 50. *Knocks on wood*

I wonder what I could do to improve this team:

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Bold, Max HP, Max Defense
Drizzle

Hurricane
U-Turn
Protect
Tailwind

In practice, Hurricane is the most common move, followed by U-Turn, or switching directly into Goodra if there's an enemy Electric type/rival weather setter such as Charizard Y. Even with no Special Attack investment, Hurricane is surprisingly useful, especially against Grass types which might otherwise be a problem for this team.


Goodra @ Life Orb
Modest, Max Special Attack, 240 HP, 16 Speed
Sap Sipper


Draco Meteor
Muddy Water
Thunderbolt
Protect

Muddy Water takes advantage of the rain boost and can serve as a spread move if necessary. Draco Meteor should be obvious, Thunderbolt is there instead of Thunder because it was originally intended as a Sun team counter, and I hardly use Protect on it. I suppose it could occasionally bait Fairy types with Protect. Sap Sipper once absorbed a Lilligant Bloom Doom for me.

Relicanth @ Rockium Z
Jolly, Max Attack, Max Speed, 6 HP
Swift Swim

Head Smash
Earthquake
Double Edge
Waterfall

Continental Crush is used most of the time, more so for the accuracy than the power boost. That, and Item Clause can be a bit annoying for rain offense teams. Waterfall is there for obvious reasons. Earthquake is meant to serve as a spread, but it's disappointing coming from Jolly Relicanth's Attack. Double Edge is there as a filler. Kabutops is better, but I don't have one of those, and Relicanth was the next best thing pre-Bank. I hardly ever lead with Relicanth because of possible Intimidate users.

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Modest, Max Special Attack, Max Speed

Scald
Draco Meteor
Ice Beam
Flash Cannon

Flash Cannon does nothing for me at all. It's only there as a filler. Ice Beam is filler too, though it could come in handy against 4X weak Pokemon or Grass types if I don't want to risk a Draco Meteor. However, Draco Meteor is used most of the time, followed by Scald. I don't have Muddy Water, so if that's recommended on Kingdra, I'll have to breed a new one. Maybe switch out Flash Cannon for Hydro Pump to get the KOs that Scald cannot? Kingdra is my lead along with Pelipper.
 
Ice types are now Immune to Sheer Cold, to be clear.
I don't think I've ever seen a Battle Tree AI use an OHKO move. Do they even appear on the trainer table? Even with all the mono-Ice teams running around. One of my recent battles was against Abomasnow, Mamoswine, Moody Glalie, and Glaceon. They love to use Blizzard all the time, much like my old 4th gen Wifi Doubles team.
A Dugtrio-2 landed 2 Fissures on me earlier I think.
I had a Snorlax hit Chansey which was @ +6 evasion first try. :(
 
Ugh! Just lost my streak at battle #43 to Mega Aerodactyl and Swampert. Aerodactyl used Thunder Fang and Sky Drop, and Swampert's Earthquakes softened my team so Aerodactyl could get the kill. If only I had Scalded it with Kingdra on the first turn. I thought Swampert would be the bigger threat. My Drizzle team beat a Thundurus/Latios/Latias/Virizion legend squad, and died to this?!

*Checks the Battle Video* *Finds out that the other two Pokemon are Milotic and Aggron* Well, Milotic is another pain for rain teams. Aggron is another Pokemon that could have a Mega Form. It seems the AI is a master of Mega Evolution bluffing. :)

Cool Trainer Alejandro's victory taunt was "Je je. . .El antiguo método de la zanahoria y el palo nunca falla." ("Ha ha. . .The old trick of the carrot and the stick never fails.")

Here's the Battle Video, if anyone wants to laugh at my incompetence/bad luck:

SLTG-WWWW-WWW5-2RWW

EDIT: Just got a Kabuto on the GTS, so I can use something better than Relicanth next time. I'm also EV training a Lotad, whose ancestor I got from GTS too.
 
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Question on AI mechanics: I know that the AI will switch if they are choice-locked into moves that your Pokemon are immune to (i.e. if they have Scarf Garchomp locked into EQ against a Flying type, they will switch out). If a Ring Target is attached to your Pokemon, will the AI take that into account and then not switch out? Or do they ignore the item?
 
How do you win consistently in Triples in the first place? It sounds like the kind of format where things can easily go wrong on the first turn. (e.g. surprise Protects)

Then again, I played more Rotation Battles than Triples, so what do I know? :)
Well as ReptoAbysmal states: Triples is the easiest format to work with. With 6 pokemon at your disposal, you have a lot of opportunity to cover any weaknesses. Plus you have the advantage of using Megas and stratigies the AI cannot. Mat Block/Tailwind and Trick Room are indeed some of the more widely used strategies, both of which I used during my streaks. For my most recent streak, I used a level 1 Taillow under Trick Room (similiar to Aron), which is very effective due to the AI clustering their attacks on the same pokemon.

I liked to use the first turn to create advantage for my team, even if it meant dealing no damage. Many of my first turns were Trick Room, Protect, Wide Guard. But then you pick the opposing team apart. Before that it was Mat Block/Dragon Dance (Mega Salamence). But there are teams that just go right for attacking, ~Mercury~'s triples team and R Inanimate's triples team are 2 examples that come right to mind. Finally you can get wild like a few of turskain's teams or ReptoAbysmal's various triples shenanigans.

Either way, its a good time on the triples leaderboard.

Whooooooo-ee! Long time no see bro! I remember your initial cracking of 1000, and afterward you kinda fell off the map for a while just like Jump. Evidently you were busy ;)
Yes, it certainly has been a while! Real life has been busy and Pokemon was put on the shelf for a while after I hit 3400 nearly a year ago. Glad to see familiar faces still around! I really wanted to hit 4k before I transferred my teams. Honestly I was going to leave my triples teams behind to slowly work towards turskain's spot but I guess that record will remain!

Man the Battle Tree is tough. But maybe I suck at Singles and Doubles. Damn I wish Triples were still around! I feel so much safer with all 6 pokemon.

Also, I added my final write-up for my ORAS triples. Good times.
 
I am absolutely losing my mind trying to tweak an EV spread which distributes to four stats without leaving an excess four points undistributed because they'd serve no purpose otherwise. Unfortunately part of the complication comes from the defenses having fairly little wiggle room due to the desired tankings.

It's an Assault Vest Bewear and it has more than enough bulk to withstand most supereffective shit save for Gardevoir4 Hyper Beam, and easily shrugs off anything neutral, but the OCD from these four points I can't find a use for is making me insane. I almost want to forego HP investment (which still lets me keep my intended tankings, just looks uglier for the "everything else" that can be thrown at it) just so I can have three perfectly divisible numbers and no wasted points. :/

It's 100 HP/212 Atk/36 Def/156 SpD at the moment. On the physical side I don't believe anything is able to hit it harder than Mega Luke's Close Combat and it always survives that. Easily survives Drampa Devastating Drake and Mega Alakazam Psychic (not so much a target due to TR, but a bonus) on the special side. Running max investment doesn't ensure any OHKOs or 2HKOs that weren't already guaranteed so I didn't see the need to go above 212 (the things it requires coverage moves for, like Chandelure and Dhelmise, don't do a whole hell of a lot to it either.) Keeping the HP as is makes Chandelure and Volcarona take an additional turn to kill it, which is incentive for me to leave it that way. Sooo I dunno.
 
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Been using a Trick Room Doubles team lately because I find it fun to sweep hugely speedy beast Mega Evos with stuff that has like 20-40 speed. Been maxing out these streaks at around 50-60 though and I feel like they just don't have the consistency to go for huge streaks because you have to take that first turn to set up TR. Even paired with a Fake Out Hariyama I feel it puts you further behind that just a speedy strong opening pair.

Which leads me on to the question of what do you guys think in general of status/stat-boosting moves in Doubles? I've tried using Garchomp with Swords Dance and Substitute but just never feel safe in Doubles of using them when's there's the potential to be double targeted. I imagine it's a similar reason why you don't see many Dragon Dance mons in Doubles because you're just never in a safe enough place to set up. This could even extend to a move like Roost which I tried on a my TR Drampa but again; rarely felt safe enough to use (especially in Doubles when Drampa is coming out 3rd/4th and you really have to be revenge killing at this point).

Obviously there are exceptions like Protect or Z-Conversion. Just thinking out loud really lol :)
 

turskain

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I am absolutely losing my mind trying to tweak an EV spread which distributes to four stats without leaving an excess four points undistributed because they'd serve no purpose otherwise. Unfortunately part of the complication comes from the defenses having fairly little wiggle room due to the desired tankings.

It's an Assault Vest Bewear and it has more than enough bulk to withstand most supereffective shit save for Gardevoir4 Hyper Beam, and easily shrugs off anything neutral, but the OCD from these four points I can't find a use for is making me insane. I almost want to forego HP investment (which still lets me keep my intended tankings, just looks uglier for the "everything else" that can be thrown at it) just so I can have three perfectly divisible numbers and no wasted points. :/

It's 100 HP/212 Atk/36 Def/156 SpD at the moment. On the physical side I don't believe anything is able to hit it harder than Mega Luke's Close Combat and it always survives that. Easily survives Drampa Devastating Drake and Mega Alakazam Psychic (not so much a target due to TR, but a bonus) on the special side. Running max investment doesn't ensure any OHKOs or 2HKOs that weren't already guaranteed so I didn't see the need to go above 212 (the things it requires coverage moves for, like Chandelure and Dhelmise, don't do a whole hell of a lot to it either.) Keeping the HP as is makes Chandelure and Volcarona take an additional turn to kill it, which is incentive for me to leave it that way. Sooo I dunno.
With Lv50 stats, splitting EVs into 4 stats always results in 4 EVs going to waste, right? You only get to actually use those last 4 for an extra stat point if investing EVs into 5 stats.
 
How do you win consistently in Triples in the first place? It sounds like the kind of format where things can easily go wrong on the first turn. (e.g. surprise Protects)

Then again, I played more Rotation Battles than Triples, so what do I know? :)

I'll try my luck with a Super Doubles rain team again tomorrow now that I have a Kingdra. Now, if only I had a Ludicolo/Qwilfish/Kabutops. . .
Triples statistically gave the least chance of losing from back luck. A crit or your miss in singles could end the game by breaking a defensive core and you might not know it until their last pokemon comes out, but in triples you still have 5 other pokemon and you've already seen at least half their team and for a lot of them they use theme teams. It was my favorite battle mode because it gave me the fastest battles since I could be careless and it wouldn't hurt me as fast. It was the battle mode where I felt 90% accurate moves could still give a consistently high streak. I was able to get a 600+ one inspired by my triples team for the ORAS online competiton, which I'll post in the appropriate thread by next week.

I am absolutely losing my mind trying to tweak an EV spread which distributes to four stats without leaving an excess four points undistributed because they'd serve no purpose otherwise. Unfortunately part of the complication comes from the defenses having fairly little wiggle room due to the desired tankings.

It's an Assault Vest Bewear and it has more than enough bulk to withstand most supereffective shit save for Gardevoir4 Hyper Beam, and easily shrugs off anything neutral, but the OCD from these four points I can't find a use for is making me insane. I almost want to forego HP investment (which still lets me keep my intended tankings, just looks uglier for the "everything else" that can be thrown at it) just so I can have three perfectly divisible numbers and no wasted points. :/

It's 100 HP/212 Atk/36 Def/156 SpD at the moment. On the physical side I don't believe anything is able to hit it harder than Mega Luke's Close Combat and it always survives that. Easily survives Drampa Devastating Drake and Mega Alakazam Psychic (not so much a target due to TR, but a bonus) on the special side. Running max investment doesn't ensure any OHKOs or 2HKOs that weren't already guaranteed so I didn't see the need to go above 212 (the things it requires coverage moves for, like Chandelure and Dhelmise, don't do a whole hell of a lot to it either.) Keeping the HP as is makes Chandelure and Volcarona take an additional turn to kill it, which is incentive for me to leave it that way. Sooo I dunno.
You could try a 96HP and 164 SpD to keep your HP odd at not waste any EVs or (just realized a 92HP would give the same value)you could do what I'd do and increase the speed by a point to prevent speed ties. I think those are the most effective ways to use those 4 points, but since you met all your targets I don't think it would change much anyway.
 
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Hit 204 in doubles a few weeks back. Went with Kangaskhan / Garchomp / Aegislash / Tapu Koko. Didn't go in expecting much (was struggling to get much higher than 50 or so at the time), was mostly just looking to recruit some solid partners for the multi battles.
But it seems there was some unexpected synergy. Kangaskhan seems to have fallen off the radar (fair enough) but Fake Out + Tectonic Rage from Garchomp usually left the opponent with one mon fainted and the other chipped 30-40% after the first turn with both of mine unscathed. Aegislash is ideal Pokémon to have in the back since it resists everything the lead two are weak to + is obviously a fantastic Pokémon in general. Really helped with the Trick Room match-up as well. Tapu Koko just cleaned up weakened Pokémon late-game if it came to it.

Ended up losing to a Trick Room team, the pivotal moment being when I had to choose between two Ghost-weak Pokémon to Shadow Ball with Aegislash... I chose the Cofagrigus which used Destiny Bond. It pays to look up moveset data huh.
Not sure this team can actually go much further than that, just playing with it, it seems fairly inconsistent (I had a number of really close calls) and haven't really been able to match my record since the first try. With Bank out it gives me opportunities to try some new strategies; I'm enjoying getting to know the doubles metagame more than I thought.

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Brick Break
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out

Usually Fake Out turn one, then use the appropriate move after that. Brick Break is weak but the best option available, the secondary effect comes into play sometimes too. Relying on Sucker Punch to hit Ghost-types sucks since a lot of them don't like to attack (Hypnosis Gengar, Will-O-Wisp Jellicent, etc.) so Scrappy gets a bit of use.

Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Usually Tectonic Rage turn one but after that can be a little awkward. Using Earthquake next to Kangaskhan is usually avoided since Kangaskhan doesn't run Protect but it can be worth vs. two Ground-weak Pokémon. Dragon Claw and Rock Slide are really weak but seem to be the best options available. Rock Slide 90% accuracy obviously sucks but it seems to flinch a generous amount so I'm cool with that. Garchomp struggles with faster Dragon-types (Latios, Salamence-Mega, Choice Scarf Garchomp) + you have to be careful since not all opposing Dragon-types faint from Dragon Claw (Kingdra, Garchomp). Water-types are also awkward since Ice-type moves will KO Garchomp most of the time and they can often survive a Tectonic Rage.

Aegislash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Wide Guard is fun since the A.I. seems to behave poorly to it. Can save Aegislash and Tapu Koko from Earthquake, or Garchomp from Blizzard or Dazzling Gleam. Also means that Garchomp can Earthquake freely next to it since Wide Guard doesn't fail over consecutive turns like King's Shield can. Went with duel STAB but Sacred Sword and Shadow Sneak are also obviously strong options. Also considered Wiki Berry over Sitrus Berry but Sitrus seems more reliable.

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Fantastic speed, really strong Thunderbolt and an OK spread move so it's really good after enemy teams have been weakened a little. Third slot is mostly filler; Hidden Power Fire was used but Hidden Power Ice and Grass Knot work fine too. Also tried Discharge for a bit since it's a nice option when you're with Garchomp / teammate is using Protect / teammates are dead.
 

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