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I was recently beaten by a team perfectly designed to counter my Drizzle users. Vaporeon is already a pain when you're using rain, but the surprise threat was Shell Smash Carracosta. Its defenses were far sturdier than my Relicanth's. Maybe I ought to consider Shiinotic? Its Fire weakness would be reduced by rain, and Strength Sap would come in handy. Lanturn could counter the bulky Water types and benefit from Hydro Pump and Thunder, and Shiinotic and Pelipper could switch in on a Ground move. Water-based hyper offense doesn't seem to work that well in 3 vs 3.
There are several trainers whose sets follow a pattern, including several weather trainers. You were probably against a rain team that never had to use rain dance because of drizzle.
I wouldn't suggest Relicanth, Lanturn, or Shiinotic on a Tree team unless you are going for a challenge. If you want to use Pelipper to set up weather, Xurkitree or Tapu Koko with Thunder is probably a better choice than Lanturn, and Smeargle is probably a better Spore and Strength Sap user if you specifically need those moves.
Well, I don't have a good Tapu Koko because I didn't know about the "KO it after beating the Champion" part at the time. (The long time between beating the Champion and getting to save is the worst part of the game. Curse you, Lillie!)
The idea behind Lanturn is really Volt Absorb and its defensive typing.
Well, I don't have a good Tapu Koko because I didn't know about the "KO it after beating the Champion" part at the time. (The long time between beating the Champion and getting to save is the worst part of the game. Curse you, Lillie!)
The idea behind Lanturn is really Volt Absorb and its defensive typing.
Even with full defensive investment it won't be able to take many strong neutral hits, and it doesn't have a healing move- it suffers pretty heavily from its base stats being low. If you are looking for a Water-type pokemon that blocks Electric moves, maybe try Gastrodon instead? It gets recover and can stat-up with Curse to take physical hits better.
While I don't have a relevant link handy basically stating "yes the facilities were thoroughly disected and there exists zero manipulation of RNG on part of the AI" I know it's been thoroughly researched again and again.
And frankly all claims of cheating are just disproven by the claimants themselves, I've said this more times than I care to remember. Nobody saves or streams battle after battle to indicate team stacking. Nobody saves battles of illegal moves/setups (Shell Smash Kommo-o was the first of its kind in a battle facility, and GF has since removed it.) People still insist Quick Claw Walrein is a thing and that they've lost to it, but never have the replay to prove it.
I haven't seen any claims of ignoring the type chart since DPP when a guy said a Jolteon OHKOd his Garchomp with Thunder (in all likelihood he wasn't paying attention, switched into a Fake Tears and got hit with Hyper Beam.) But ignoring hard-coded stats is still a thing, and those that do save replays usually come to learn that they either weren't paying attention or didn't know what they were getting into because they didn't look things up.
Yesterday I happened upon a fellow who was floored that his Jolly Garchomp was outsped by a Tentacruel, as was his Talonflame. As the topic went on, he admitted his speed IVs were "not 31, but not terrible" and further admitted his Talonflame didn't have a speed boosting nature nor did either have max EVs. Fortunately, unlike most people who cry foul, he immediately accepted the truth- Tentacruel1, the enemy in question, runs Hasty and 252 EVs, and sits only two points below max Garchomp; an IV of 29 is all it takes to get a speed tie and lose it.
And his Talonflame, well, it was a piece of shit and he had to come to terms with that.
But you see? People form misimpressions of what's supposed to happen in battle and are dumbstruck when it doesn't. Then confirmation bias gets a snowball rolling and now lots of people believe in something they can't and won't prove.
The only other thing I have to say is that thankfully this thread is probably the worst possible place to suggest that AI cheating actually occurs, as there aren't enough people to bandwagon and those that try to just get punished.
I guess a lot of players don't remember the time when the AI sent out 3 Pokemon weak to Grass so their Choice Scarf Tapu Bulu could Wood Hammer them to death! :)
I've seen AI Pokemon use Quick Claw, but none with any OHKO moves that I can recall.
I guess a lot of players don't remember the time when the AI sent out 3 Pokemon weak to Grass so their Choice Scarf Tapu Bulu could Wood Hammer them to death! :)
I've seen AI Pokemon use Quick Claw, but none with any OHKO moves that I can recall.
I'll settle for nothing less than losing to a No Guard Fissure Choice Scarf Machamp! Come on, Gamefreak. You know you want to, and you have just the opportunity with 1st gen Pokemon Bank transfers. . .'
Joking aside, what are some good Pokemon in 3 vs. 3 that are much less useful in 6 vs. 6 Smogon OU battles?
Of course, all of this is assuming that "the way the AI cheats" takes the form of perfectly detectable issues. Pokémon you're "not supposed to see", or moves that the enemy "shouldn't have", or items that they "shouldn't have", or stats that they "shouldn't have". This is then ignoring the vast majority of people who try to claim that the AI doesn't cheat by way of fudging immediately obvious things - but by the little things. Hax in their favor, or against yours. Teams that are specifically designed to counter yours. Apparent prediction where they somehow seem to know you are going to switch and act accordingly. And none of that is disprovable by the Pokémon database, and that's where these people who cry "hax" keep coming from. Just a few weeks ago I had an argument with one such person via Skype (I pasted the log here) and obviously there is literally no way to prove him wrong until either a) the AI gets datamined conclusively or b) the question of "what constitutes counter-teaming" can be statistically answered and shown to be statistically true/false based on a huge sample size from across many carts with many different Pokémon. Until then, and probably even after then, no amount of "look, the entire database of Pokémon and their trainers is right here" is going to do anything to dissuade people who prefer to content themselves by getting extremely worked up and angry with the evil boogeyman that is Pokémon AI than coming to terms with the fact that maybe their teams are just that fucking bad.
Entry hazards as the AI is hesitant to switch and there are fewer things for the damage to accumulate, so things that specialize in that like Nihilego get a ding. Things that rely on that kind of erosion to clean up are down too since they usually go up against 100% HP. Weather-based things that don't plant their own, like Kingdra. Defensive pivots since you have less room on your team. Most slow things Dugtrio because they don't switch. The things that aren't legal in the Tree, obviously. Things that get most of their work checking Tapus lose something when there are no enemy Tapus.
I can say with the confidence and experience of some 30,000 battles in the Maison alone that at no point did I ever remotely feel like I was being counterteamed. But, of course, I'm preaching to the choir here in this thread.
If you think you're being counterteamed, you should probably patch up that hole in your team.
Even with full defensive investment it won't be able to take many strong neutral hits, and it doesn't have a healing move- it suffers pretty heavily from its base stats being low. If you are looking for a Water-type pokemon that blocks Electric moves, maybe try Gastrodon instead? It gets recover and can stat-up with Curse to take physical hits better.
Storm Drain Gastrodon sounds pretty good as a defensive Water type that isn't too passive. Should I use Scald or Waterfall as its main Water attacking move? The old XY analyses recommend Scald, but Burn damage has been reduced since then. That, and it seems a waste of Curse attack boosts. Granted, Scald does get a boost if it switches into a Water move.
Use Scald because it thaws you, letting Gastroson check Ice types more effectively. Also the Burn helps your teammates set up versus physical attackers.
Storm Drain Gastrodon sounds pretty good as a defensive Water type that isn't too passive. Should I use Scald or Waterfall as its main Water attacking move? The old XY analyses recommend Scald, but Burn damage has been reduced since then. That, and it seems a waste of Curse attack boosts. Granted, Scald does get a boost if it switches into a Water move.
You don't HAVE to use Curse, Recover/Toxic/Scald/EQ or even something kind of janky like Recover/Stockpile/Toxic/Scald could be fine. It depends on the rest of your team, of course. If you are also using a physically defensive pelipper set with scald, putting it on Gastro might be redundant. If you ARE using Gastro and Pelipper though, make sure your 3rd pokemon hard-blocks any pokemon that can have Freeze Dry in the tree- you have two quad weakness to it, and both are slow, so you had best be ready
Yup, same mons as Level 51's second streak, with a few tweaks here and there. Expect me to say many things he's already covered in his writeup. Of course, credits also go to turskain, because his was the original Lele/Phero doubles streak.
Tapu Lele is powerful, has a great STAB combination, and, with a Choice Scarf, is also very fast. Its job in this team is to hit things hard, usually scoring the first KO in the battle, and set up Psychic Terrain to support the team (mostly Pheromosa, really). The extra Speed from its Choice Scarf allows Lele to outspeed and KO/severely weaken would-be annoying threats to the leads, and this is invaluable to the rest of the team.
Terrakion2, Crobat, Gengar (can still annoy me with Cursed Body though), fast Electric mons such as Raikou, Electrode and Jolteon due to possible parahax, Salamence (especially because Phero can't OHKO set 3 due to its Yache Berry), Darmanitan4 (!!!), Salazzle (sans Focus Sash), Talonflame (again, sans Sash), Archeops, Aerodactyl, etc etc
Being the faster mon out of the lead duo (turn 1 anyways) also means it can weaken a foe so Pheromosa can finish it off and grab a Speed boost in the process. Psychic Surge nullifies priority attacks for five turns, which is very helpful, making the their Speed tiers even more difficult to overcome.
I picked both Psychic and Psyshock because a) one isn't strictly better than the other imo (also I couldn't choose), b) Scarf Lele really appreciates being able to hit a foe physically and specially, and c) if I hadn't chosen both of them, its set would look like Psychic STAB/Fairy STAB/situational filler 1/situational filler 2, and honestly (for this team at least), Lele doesn't really have good filler options apart from Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball (kinda meh, and already covered by Aegislash) and HP Fire (which I didn't SR for). So yeah, I went with two Psychic-type moves and I never regretted it. Having the choice of hitting a foe's physical Defense or its special Defense is really good; Lele wouldn't be deadweight against anything (statwise at least haha). Against a physically defensive mon (Avalugg, Regirock, Rhyperior, etc), use Psychic. Against a specially defensive mon (Regice, Blissey, Sylveon, Florges, etc), use Psyshock. Easy enough.
Lele used to have Dazzling Gleam as the Fairy STAB move in this team's first run because hey, a spread move is always useful in Doubles, right? Turns out, not really if it isn't strong enough for grabbing important KOs. For instance, DGleam fails to OHKO big threats such as Salamence and Garchomp3, and some other less threatening things like Hydreigon4, Kingdra, Scrafty4, MSceptile, etc. It's also blocked by random Wide Guard users. I don't think I've ever caught myself thinking 'I wish I could hit both foes with a Fairy-type move', so I'm glad I switched to Moonblast; it hits what it needs to hit (dragons mostly) hard enough. Also Lele's best move against Dark types, though unfortunately many of them (A-Muk, Drapion, Incineroar) have a secondary type that makes Moonblast deal neutral damage.
Thunderbolt is very situationally used, but it has come in handy a few times. It's mostly used against lead Gyarados, which always used Dragon Dance turn 1, and may or may not mega evolve, depending on the set. Scarf Lele outspeeds Gyarados even at +1 and Thunderbolt 2HKOes both set 3 (100%) and 4 (99.6% :[). Moonblast 2HKOes Gyarados3 'only' 90.2% of the time, which is not enough. Besides that, Tbolt also hits Empoleon, Slowbro, Slowking, and Skarmory. I guess having BoltBeam coverage between the leads is pretty neat, too, even if it isn't used much.
The EVs give it maximum power and speed, not much else to say. There may be a better spread that lets Lele live some specific attack, but I can't afford to remove Spe EVs, because outspeeding Terrakion2 by one point is just too convenient to pass up, and the SpA investment is needed to make it stronger, especially due to its nature.
tl;dr: Phero here does pretty much the same thing it does in turskain's and Level 51's teams: serve as bait so Lele can attack safely, and do big damage when convenient or needed.
The second half of the lead duo, Pheromosa is one fast mon, especially after KOing something. It also hits hard, and Bug/Fighting/Ice coverage is really good. It pairs up very well with Lele, forming a very solid offensive core. Phero takes care of bulky Steel types (e.g. Registeel), Lele deals with bulky Poison types (e.g. Toxapex), and both of them dish out great amounts of damage to most things.
Low Kick is the main attacking move, and Phero's most reliable Fighting STAB move (besides a Z move, but eh). It helps a lot against many fat mons, such as the Regis. (Also this: 252 Atk Pheromosa Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kangaskhan-Mega: 180-212 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO) In a pinch, it can even be used to 2HKO MMetagross if Aegis is already down somehow. Lunge is a good move against opposing Grass, Psychic, and Dark mons. It's also used for its Attack-lowering effect, especially when Phero is about to get KOed. This, possibly coupled with Salamence's Intimidate, makes the team much more resilient to physical attacks (fun fact: Mence can tank a -2 Weavile Ice Punch). Just be careful around possible Defiant/Competitive mons. Ice Beam is a very good coverage move as always, providing a way to hit Landorus, Salamence, Dragonite, etc. Outspeeding and OHKOing Garchomp3 after a prior Speed boost is also nice. Sadly MGarchomp4 is bulky enough to survive it 75% of the time.
Protect is used rather often, and for good reason. It (usually) wastes at least an opposing mon's turn, relieving pressure from Lele and letting it attack more freely, or allowing Mence or Aegis switch in without taking much/any damage. Of course, the AI can do unpredictable/random things at times (e.g. have both opposing Fire types target Lele for some reason), but usually Protect baiting is a very easy and reliable method of gaining an advantage over the opponent. It's kind of annoying that offensive Z moves pierce through Protect (and usually they'll take Phero down to its Sash, due to its pitiful bulk), but I'm glad they haven't made it so they lift the protection for the rest of the turn (akin to Feint, Phantom Force and others), so Phero will survive the turn.
I really appreciated the Speed boosts from Beast Boost at times, but I may switch to a Lonely/Naughty Phero, as I've seen some interesting calcs with that additional power (also Attack boosts seem cool) and I believe Lele could handle most mons between 203 and 223 Speed. The only new threats with that change would be Heatran4 (granted, it's a big one: Scarf + Magma Storm to take out Phero in one turn, Flash Cannon to threaten Lele), some sashed mons (Electrode2 and Accelgor134, although I'm not sure if any of these stop appearing after battle 50), and MAlakazam (I'll miss being able to outpace it and KO it with Lunge). Not sure if it'd be worth the extra power, but we'll see in the future.
Finally an actual bulky mon! Salamence is here for the Intimidate support it provides for the team, its bulk (even with only 44/4/12 investment), and sheer power (for instance, its Return hits harder than Lele's PT Psyshock and Phero's 120 BP Low Kick).
The new mega evolution speed mechanic helps it tremendously, allowing it to reach 184 Speed instantly, outpacing everything up to base 115+ mons (Azelf, Raikou, MAbsol, Starmie, MHoundoom) and putting right below Salazzle123. I'll probably change this to 187/188 Speed (shamelessly copying Level 51's spread), due to the losing battle.
Return is a good move on its own: a strong, STAB move with no drawbacks for physical Normal types. Now give it a good offensive typing and 20% more power and it becomes incredible. Really, its neutral coverage is just great. I now see why birdspam was a thing in gen 6 (well, that and Gale Wings I guess). I haven't tried Double Edge yet, but, in theory at least, the recoil seems to hurt its good bulk. I might try a DE Mence with a more offensive spread in the future. For things that resist Flying, it has Brick Break and Dragon Claw. Brick Break prevents Salamence from being walled by Steel types, and hits lightweight ones Phero can't nail with Low Kick (Togedemaru lol). Breaking opposing screens is also a nice perk, but it has come into play few times so far. I chose Brick Break over Earthquake mostly because I didn't like the need to Wide Guard/Protect every time Mence has to use EQ. Dragon Claw is there for an accurate (ugh Dragon Rush) and reliable (ugh Outrage) Dragon STAB. It's not very strong, I know, but it does help against Electric types every now and then. Mence sadly doesn't get much else pre-bank (Scary Face could be a fun gimmick for a slower team, idk), so I just went with it. Protect is good as always.
The wonky EV spread gives it 184 Speed as mentioned above, enough bulk to tank some ('randomly' picked) strong moves (MGarchomp Dragon Claw and +2 Salazzle Sludge Bomb), and the rest was dumped into Attack. Mence definitely needs to be re-EV'd, but it worked pretty well.
Looking at the three mons above, a few obvious issues stand out, and most of them can be grouped into 'very bulky and/or strong Steel types' and 'Trick Room'. The first group includes MMawile, MMetagross, MAggron, MSteelix (sorta), Bronzong (eh), etc. The second group encompasses Slowbro, Cresselia (not only the TR set though), Bronzong, Dusknoir, Cofagrigus, etc. There were a few other issues, such as deceptively bulky things spamming Blizzard (looking at you, Glaceon) and hax in general (Double Team, Bright Powder, parahax, etc), but the main ones are up there. Aegislash deals with most, if not all of them really well.
The moveset is pretty boring, so I won't expand much on it. King's Shield is a given: it buys free turns and lowers the foes' Attack upon contact. Shadow Ball and Flash Cannon are the obvious STAB moves: strong and reliable. Wide Guard is a great move in Doubles, blocking annoying moves like Rock Slide and Blizzard. Funnily, many mons can't touch Aegislash outside of EQ, so Wide Guard actually allows it to wall them, as it can be used repeatedly.
This gen's new Stance Change mechanics (Aegis no longer changes forme if it's fully paralyzed, hits itself in confusion, is asleep/frozen, etc) can both be a blessing and a curse, depending on the situation. It helps when it gets FP'd the turn I use the Z move, so I don't waste it and have Aegis open to opposing attacks in its Sword forme. It sucks when it hits itself in confusion the turn I choose King's Shield. So yeah, it really is a mixed bag.
The item choice wasn't obvious. I thought of using Weakness Policy for the boosts, Sitrus Berry for the healing, and Occa/Shuca Berry for tanking Fire/Ground moves better. Then ewgrooss on Discord suggested a Z-Crystal. That caught my interest, so I ran a few calcs with Ghostium Z...
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Cresselia: 218-260 (96 - 114.5%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Dusknoir: 216-254 (142.1 - 167.1%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 148-175 (71.4 - 84.5%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 174-205 (110.8 - 130.5%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aggron-Mega: 201-237 (113.5 - 133.8%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Steelix-Mega: 174-205 (95.6 - 112.6%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 148-175 (71.4 - 84.5%)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zapdos: 142-168 (72 - 85.2%) - zapdos2
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 160-189 (80.8 - 95.4%) - thankfully I was never forced to do this
... and it was beautiful. Ghostium Z is amazing. It turns Shadow Ball into a one-time perfectly accurate 160 BP nuke, letting Aegis completely wreck pretty much all of those threatening mons up there and more. Bigger middle finger to Cresselia2 (81.3% of the time anyways) than Aegislash itself haha. Of course, it only works once a battle, so I have to use it wisely. Which opponent is more threatening? Which can become more dangerous if TR goes up? Which one can be taken down more easily? Can they use Protect/Substitute?
That 17 Speed IV is weird, but I'll explain. With a Modest nature, Aegis hits 73 Speed. That is faster than MMawile (70 Speed), letting Aegis nuke it without granting it another free hit on something. I used to have a 25 Spe IV Quiet Aegislash, at 69 Speed, slower than MMawile. I had underestimated how hard that thing hit, so I figured it wouldn't be so bad to be slower than it. But this granted it another hit on something on my team, and that was very bad, so I bumped Aegislash up to 73 Speed, the next tier without any ties, as I despise them.
The 5 Attack IV lowers confusion and Foul Play damage (a STAB one won't even 4HKO Aegis-Shield without a crit, but even the only non-STAB Foul Play in the Tree - Oranguru4's - still has a 18.8% chance of KOing Aegis-Sword from full health lol), and it was the lowest Atk IV I got before getting tired from hatching Honedge eggs.
Simple EV spread. Max power and max bulk. 4 SpD for Download users.
Things that make me completely change the way I play so I can take them out as fast as I can (in no particular order):
-Chandelure - Threatens the whole team with Fire/Ghost STAB and Flame Body, Phero can't do a thing against this. Try to 2HKO it with Lele's Psychic/Psyshock, or Mence's Return if needed
-Incineroar4 - Annoying with Quick Claw Flare Blitz and possible burns. Bonus points if it's Intimidate, because Moonblast + -1 Low Kick isn't a guaranteed KO. Try to bring Mence in safely (read: without getting burned) and Return away. Much easier to deal with if it's not Intimidate
-Zapdos2 - Hax lord. Thankfully it always prefers to use Charge Beam turn 1, so Psychic/Ice Beam can do some good damage on it. Aegis's Never-Ending Nightmare does 72-85%
-MMawile - Ughhh. The leads can't do anything to it and it hits absurdly hard. If it's a lead, switch Lele out for Aegis, Protect Phero, and hope it targeted Phero, as even resisted Play Rough deals >30%. Use the Z move on it to blow it away. If all else fails, gang up on it: Psychic does ~40%, Low Kick does ~20%, Return does ~30%
-MMetagross - Used to be a much bigger threat when the team didn't have Aegislash, now it's just OHKOed by Shadow Ball. Phero's Low Kick can also 2HKO if Aegis is down. Always a threat to watch out for, though
-Volcarona34 - Psyshock might 2HKO (91.8% chance), MMence outspeeds +1 Volc and OHKOes with Return, but risks Flame Body. Aegis can block set 4's Heat Wave with Wide Guard, but set 3 has Overheat
-Aggron3 (Mega) - The leads can't 2HKO it and it has TWave for more annoyance points. Usually I go Psychic/Protect -> Psychic/Low Kick to take it out, but it depends on the other foe and Lele risks getting paralyzed. Aegis deals with it easily, but TWave makes hard switching in risky
-Mimikyu - Psyshock can OHKO, Return always does, so does Shadow Ball. The problem is breaking its disguise, and the fact that it hits the whole team super effectively with just its STABs doesn't help either. I try to bait it into using Play Rough on a Phero Protect so I can break the disguise with Lele and then KO it with Psyshock/Psychic (+ Ice Beam)
-Heatran - All sets are OHKOed by Low Kick, but set 1 holds a Focus Sash, set 2 has Protect (although it never used it because it usually preferred attacking), and all sets can have Flame Body. Also, can become very dangerous if Phero goes down
-Froslass - Cursed Body + annoying STABs/typing + (if set 4) Focus Sash ughh
(might add more later)
Battle #322: K2NG-WWWW-WWW4-PHMS
vs. Preschooler Victor - Heatran/Latios/Metagross/Tyranitar
Turn 1 went well, with Lele and Phero KOing Heatran and Phero being taken down to 1 HP by Latios. Then Metagross happened. Fearing set 4, I switch Lele to Aegis, and Lunge Latios to KO it. The latter happens, but Metagross turns out to be set 3, and uses Earthquake for no apparent reason (I guess the AI knows that foe 1 is grounded and foe 2 is grounded and at 1 HP?), dealing reasonable damage to Aegis and KOing Phero. I send in Lele, and Victor sends in Tyranitar.
This was the key turn. After taking an unexpected EQ, Aegis was at 99 HP at that point. There were a few possible follow-up scenarios from here:
1) If it's Tyranitar3, Crunch will 100% KO Aegis, and Lele would do ~70% to Tyranitar with Moonblast before being taken out by Metagross (unless it uses EQ), leaving me with only Mence to beat a (as it turned out) Clear Body Metagross.
2) If it's Tyranitar4, Payback/EQ won't KO Aegis without a crit, but Metagross may choose EQ again to finish Aegis off. Lele would deal ~50% to Tyranitar. Mence would come in, and be unable to do anything to Metagross.
As Aegislash was the only one who could deal with Metagross, I decide to use King's Shield to preserve it, and Lele uses Moonblast on Tyranitar. I completely forgot about the other possible 'preserve Aegislash' move: switching it out. Fatal mistake.
Tyranitar turns out to be set 3 and uses Dragon Dance, Lele hits Tyranitar, and Metagross takes Lele out with Meteor Mash. Mence comes in, drops Tyranitar's Attack back to +0, and Metagross is unaffected by Intimidate due to Clear Body.
At that point, it was pretty much over. Tyranitar outspeeds both of my mons and KOes Aegislash with Crunch, and then Mence can't take Metagross out quickly enough. I tried a double King's Shield as a last resort, but it failed, and I lost.
As mentioned above, the best play would have been to switch Aegis out, weaken Tyranitar with Lele before Metagross took it out, and then have Mence/Aegis vs. Ttar/Gross. But even then, it would require some luck. +1 Tyranitar is faster than Mence (frustratingly, a 187 Speed Mence would outspeed and KO it :[), so it could use Rock Slide and flinch Mence (even if it's not a KO), which requires me to use Wide Guard, or it could just Crunch Aegis, making me use King's Shield. And then, as a possible EQ from Metagross would've been blocked by WG/KS, I would only need to pray it doesn't crit with EQ and KO it with Aegis and win.
Alternatively, being a little more reckless and just nuking Metagross with Never-Ending Nightmare that turn would've worked as well.
Now what? I won't have time for more battling in the next few months because of school, so I won't come back with a new streak anytime soon. And besides, I still need to beat Super Singles and Multis, so I'll probably focus on that when I have time. I 100% expect to come back to this thread someday and find out someone has developed a whole new strategy and has been getting great results with it. I 100% expect people getting longer streaks than mine (I mean look at the Maison thread lol I'd be #13), especially once Bank mons are available. We've only had Sun and Moon for a little more than two months, so I'm sure there are still many big things to be discovered. I'll definitely keep checking this thread, even if I don't engage in the discussions here (I do it on Discord mostly). I just want to take this opportunity to thank everyone for the great community that's been created around this one small aspect of Pokémon games.
The biggest threat I've encountered for this team is.......sheer cold articuno.
Have had 2 streaks lost to sheer colds. First landed 2 sheer colds out of 3 and the second just opened and 1 shot my toxapex. Moltres was it's partner that could 1 shot aegislash. Articuno-2 is such bullshit.
Most of the time, Lele and Mega Zam just clean house with Psychic Terrain-boosted Psychics. Both my Pokemon were mostly for Singles (except Lele's Dazzling Gleam instead of Moonblast), but sheer power just got me through.
Got to 59 with the same team as before - Kartana/Tapu Koko/Salamence, when Plumeria threw a Mega Gengar at me. Tapu Koko, turns out, doesn't have a max speed IV, so that was that.
Unless somehow the 60th opponent still doesn't have max IVs though, it'd still just be a tie in speed, which is uncomfortable. I think I might have to give up YOLO offense to do things besides farm daily streak rewards and BP. It's not a surprising conclusion, but it is disheartening to reach it nonetheless.
Lurking around here for some time and finally decided to post something here.
I'm quite new to all those battle facility things and wanting to use an eletric terrain Koko/Raichu core for super singles, for now I won't be aiming for all that sky high streaks but was at least willing to go for 200 to get all the tree streak rewards(even though the 100 and 200 streak berries being kind useless in my opinion).
Now for the team, I really not sure what could be the 3rd member of the team but something i've wanted to test was an Azumarill, the team would be something like that:
Tapu Koko @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
Azumarill @ Normalium Z
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Double-Edge / Substitute
Team would be centralized in Koko/Raichu sweeping under electric terrain, with Azumarill only coming if the adversary team would threat both of them too much. the EV spread of Raichu was to make it the bulkiest as possible while outspeeding every tree mon while surge surfer was active. Azumarill spread and nature is too be able to tank hits when the switch is needed and Normalium Z to recover life when going for the Z-Belly Drum even if I've already in +6 atk(from what i know my HP will be recovered anyway), I don't think Azumarill will need Speed or Attack EVs since it's already slow and when in +6 atk it will probably able to OHKO or 2HKO most of the things that don't resist it anyway.
Terrain extender is for Raichu to be the most effective as possible even if his presence being only necessary too late in the game, still not sure if the best would be nasty plot + focus sash to get at least one free boost before the sweep or Encore + Life Orb for more damage output while the target is locked at a bad move.
I don't think this team is THAT good so I accepting suggestions to improve it, thanks o/
So I've been trying a new team out in the tree. It isn't anything super original, but it climbs really fast. The EVs are just 252/252/4 right now because I haven't fiddled with it enough yet to get more specific, but it's been pretty solid. The only thing that has killed me that wasn't just misplays on my part was a Swagger Jolteon that got really lucky on the confusion turns.
Thanks to MKL122788 for trading me the Mareanie and Bagon I used.
Kartana and Toxapex are pretty standard. For Salamence I went Dragon Claw over Roost or Fire Blast because I noticed that the Rotom forms could easily give me trouble, specifically Heat form- EQ doesn't hit and Return is resisted, and each of the other two are weak to STAB attacks. The team has a general weakness to special attacking electric types it seems.
There's another team I want to try out soon that I haven't trained the Pokemon up for yet: Kartana/M-Gyara/A-Marowak. Between the three, it probably has the most immunities possible in three Pokemon. Gyarados covers Ground, Psychic, and Prankster, Kartana covers Poison and Powder moves, Marowak covers Electric, Normal, Fighting, and Burn. Incidentally, it also means that the only OHKO move that can hit the whole team is Sheer Cold, since Fissure, Horn Drill and Guillotine are covered. Weakness-wise, Rock hits unevolved Gyara and Marow and Fighting hits M-Gyara and Kartana, so it's not a perfect set-up, but Kartana can take physical rock moves without a problem and Marowak and Gyara together cover phyiscal and special fire. My big struggle with the team is figuring out what to lead with- Kartana probably makes the most sense, since Fire and Fighting are the most easily covered weaknesses on the team, but saving the sash for later is helpful, and leading with Gyara seems dangerous since once I go Mega I can't undo it. There's also the question of Intimidate vs Moxie- Intimidate seems logical, since this team practically makes switch stalling an art form, but it doesn't help vs special attackers and there are a few Defiant and Competitive Pokemon that Gyara might have to deal with- namely Empoleon/Bisharp/Braviary/Milotic/Gothitelle. Does the thread have any thoughts on those choices?
I wouldn't pick Azumarill as the 3rd for that team. Relying so heavily on Electric STAB is already playing with fire, but the team doesn't have a solution to Grass-types, and that's a problem. HP fire on Raichu isn't going to do enough except on quad-weak Pokemon. A generically tanky Pokemon is a better bet if you are going to go all-in on offense with the first two.
Specifically, M-Sceptile could give you some trouble. If it comes in on anything but Koko it will definitely get a KO, and if Koko has taken any prior damage it will sweep your whole team. Magnezone could also be unpleasant, though it doesn't have any attacks that hit Raichu for a lot. The Assault Vest set specifically takes virtually no damage from anything you have.
I wouldn't pick Azumarill as the 3rd for that team. Relying so heavily on Electric STAB is already playing with fire, but the team doesn't have a solution to Grass-types, and that's a problem. HP fire on Raichu isn't going to do enough except on quad-weak Pokemon. A generically tanky Pokemon is a better bet if you are going to go all-in on offense with the first two.
Specifically, M-Sceptile could give you some trouble. If it comes in on anything but Koko it will definitely get a KO, and if Koko has taken any prior damage it will sweep your whole team. Magnezone could also be unpleasant, though it doesn't have any attacks that hit Raichu for a lot. The Assault Vest set specifically takes virtually no damage from anything you have.
Maybe an Mega Scizor would fit this role well? Since it has good defensive typing, high base defense stats and hits like a truck with swords dance + bullet punch + u-turn.
My team would still suck against steel walls though, unless if i run something like brick break instead of u-turn, so if i would choose another thing maybe an Celesteela wouldn't be bad.
Maybe an Mega Scizor would fit this role well? Since it has good defensive typing, high base defense stats and hits like a truck with swords dance + bullet punch + u-turn.
My team would still suck against steel walls though, unless if i run something like brick break instead of u-turn, so if i would choose another thing maybe an Celesteela wouldn't be bad.
Yeah maybe that's what i'll do, but for now i thinking of sticking with Celesteela, but i need to do some research of what it would be good to use on it.
I've been using this team by R Inanimate starting at 51 and I just hit 80 last night, it's been working pretty well so far and I've still managed to pull through despite some misclicks (e.g. using Thunder Wave consecutively on the same Pokemon when I meant to click Parting Shot). Hoping to crack the leaderboard!
Of course this is just a beginning and it's built off all the hard work a lot of people have done in this thread and in past generations, but I got my first ever 50 streak (EDIT: this ended at 63 because I got greedy and didn't Shadow Sneak a Head Smash Archeops and then it outsped my Salamence) and wanted to say thank you, especially since I've never done this before in past generations!
I wish there was a better third coverage move on Porygon-Z (I hear people use HP Ground, but breeding for that seems like a nightmare); also the pokemon has -Z in its name, it really should get its own Z-Move :P
Got to 66 with a new team today. Dragonite, Scizor, Toxapex before I got greedy and tried to set up against Dragonite thinking I'd survive a hit with Multiscale. I didn't.
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Bold 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
-Haze
-Scald
-Recover
-Toxic
Pretty quick games, if Dragonite can't set up I switch to Scizor to setup or if it's a wall I switch to Toxapex and toxic stall. If I can't stall with Toxapex I toxic and roost stall with Scizor. All 3 have gone 3-0 multiple times and it's a fun team. Easy to stall out EQ and Stone Edge switching between Dragonite and Toxapex.
If anyone has a better EV spread for Scizor please let me know.
