-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
Is that a Hidden Ability? Rampardos (Standardise according to autocorrect) is so low on Smogon tiers that I didn't even know it got something useful. I last heard of Rampardos. . .probably sometime in early 4th gen.
Battle No. 500 vs Grimsley: JNWW-WWWW-WWW4-S46H [Absol3, Drapion4, Tyranitar3/4, Liepard3]
- Dual Dark leads are obviously quite threatening towards Oranguru, but where Drapion is concerned there's no point Protecting either mon, in risk of it getting a free SD. Pretty smooth sailing after TR goes up though; Hydro Vortex on Tyranitar was the correct play since Ttar4 still has an 18.7% chance of surviving a regular Liquidation.
The squad that got me to .5K, + notes on what each member brings to the plate:
Oranguru (M) ("Maurice") @ Mental Herb
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 31/5/31/31/31/0
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect
252 HP / 140 Def / 20 SpA / 96 SpD
This wise ape certainly fit the bill for the first piece of the puzzle; respectable enough bulk, few weaknesses, unaffected by flinching moves, one-time immunity to Taunt and to a lesser extent Attract grants him very favourable odds of setting up Trick Room when required. The signature move Instruct is arguably his main selling point, enabling my teammates to launch two attacks in the same turn. There's a great deal of strategy involved with this as I soon discovered, since the Instructed move will always target the same Pokemon from the last turn. With Magnezone especially, you can do things like attack something you outspeed Turn 1 while TR goes up, then Instruct Magnezone Turn 2 to finish the mon off thanks to Oranguru's lower Speed. This also offers synergy with Mimikyu; being able to get a double Shadow Sneak or Play Rough off is a huge boon, or even an immediate +4 Attack behind the safety of Disguise. Telepathy is obviously a viable choice for avoiding self-spread damage from the likes of Surf, Earthquake and Discharge, but just so happens to be useless for this particular team. The EV's were taken from the Trainer Tower's VGC '17 sample section, with the SpA investment allowing you to OHKO Salazzle with Psychic. I can't detail specific defensive or other offensive benchmarks at the moment unfortunately, but this monkey doesn't often go down in one hit, that's the important thing.
Magnezone ("Magneto") @ Air Balloon
Nature: Modest
Ability: Sturdy
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Protect
172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
A pretty unconventional mon to have in the second slot alongside my TR setter you might think, Magnezone however plays a pivotal role in shaping how battles play out to my favour. I wanted to aim for a middling Speed stat that would allow me to get hits on common slow-ish threats first turn (bulky Waters, Veteran classes with Regirock, Regice etc.), either Instructing right off the bat to eliminate them or taking a more long term approach with TR. 91 Spe gets the jump on stuff like Barbaracle4, Bisharp4, Politoed4 and Breloom4, yet still enabling Magnezone to deal with faster mons in TR. Air Balloon with Sturdy is a fantastic combination as it forces threatening Ground leads to first break the Balloon with a much weaker, often resisted attack; the opponent also has to double up on Magnezone (save for Mold Breaker) if they wish to take it out, relieving pressure on Oranguru if needed. Something I've noticed is you need to be careful with when you choose to Protect; it's a good move to make if you're up against two Fire or Fighting leads for example, but attacking from the beginning and not preserving Sturdy is often a more rewarding play. TR turns won't last forever, and sometimes setting it up twice in one battle is a tough ask, so you need to make the most of it. Yeah, couldn't be bothered breeding for a HP Fire/Ice variant; I realize the former would help out greatly against Ferrothorn, but thankfully it can't do a whole lot back to Magnezone. Volt Switch has proven to be useful a few times anyway, allowing me to pivot with Sturdy and/or the Balloon still intact.
Araquanid (M) ("BubbleO'Bill") @ Waterium Z
Nature: Brave
Ability: Water Bubble
IVs: 31/31/31/4/31/0
- Liquidation {Hydro Vortex}
- Leech Life
- Substitute
- Protect
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
The star TR abuser, I'd always wanted try out the Z-move variant of this spider of doom after witnessing it destroy lives in the current VGC '17 metagame. Thankfully he hasn't disappointed in the Tree, either. I don't think much of an explanation is needed here; Hydro Vortex hits like a truck, and is great for annoyances like Double Team Regigigas, Zapdos and Blissey, since Z-moves ignore evasion modifiers. Leech Life is fairly weak coming off Araquanid's modest Attack stat and lack of a boosting item, but still definitely worth running for healing and Water-resists. It often won't take out something weak to Bug if they're reasonably bulky, but Instruct can solve that issue. I didn't feel Wide Guard was necessary since Magnezone has the Balloon, resists Rock Slide and can take on Blizzard users comfortably, plus Heat Wave isn't all that common. Substitute has proven quite useful towards the end game of certain battles, usually to shield/stall against something like Cresselia/Milotic/Toxapex which I can't deal much damage to, but they can't really hurt me behind a Sub, either.
Mimikyu (F) ("Winky") @ Wide Lens
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Disguise
IVs: 31/31/31/11/31/31
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Taunt
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Last but not least I wanted a decent Dragon answer, and Magnezone doesn't count since it can't hit them super effectively, and many carry Ground/Fire coverage. I guess Mimikyu's often seen as a TR setter itself, but I didn't want another one of those; this max Speed variant often comes out late in the battle after some TR devastation has been dealt, to set up a Swords Dance or two thanks to Disguise and begin the clean-up process. I initially ran Life Orb, but after missing Play Rough on a Salamence twice in one battle and losing as a result in the early 50s, Wide Lens was the fix I wanted. There's probably a couple notable OHKO's/2HKO's that LO grants, but ultimately I'd much rather have near-100% faith that Play Rough will connect when I need it to. I felt Taunt was more useful over Protect to stop status in general from hampering my attempts to wreak havoc, which works well against the aforementioned stallish mons that take a long time to wear down.
Truth be told, I'm the type of guy that picks a Pokemon to use for a team often based on first impressions alone, whether that's simply its aesthetic appeal, cool typing/ability or a glance at its base stats, and not necessarily whether it's proven to be effective at taking on the Battle Facilities. I remember seeing that behemoth spider's sprite for the first time weeks before official release from the data mine thread, and I decided then and there (even before I knew its stats/type) - dagnabbit, I'm gonna do my best to make this thing work, no matter how medicore it might end up being.
Base 70 Attack is certainly mediocre, and admittedly I wasn't feeling very optimistic for Araquanid's case until I discovered Water Bubble's coolest effect, which is strangely absent from the official strategy guide. Thankfully it was positives aplenty from there; decent offensive & defensive typing, fairly good bulk, abysmal Speed. Perfect candidate for Trick Room! However, Araquanid learns no good damage-dealing spread moves (Surfing spider new meta), and that's something I feel is mandatory to quickly put pressure on your computer-controlled opponent, so what better setter to partner it with than Oranguru? Porygon2 is superior based on sponging hits alone, Mimikyu has that Disguise cushion going for it and a Fake Out immunity bar Mega Lopunny (a little fast for my liking, though), but no other TR setter can boast the offensive utility that Instruct provides.
Elaborating on my first post with this team, my reasoning behind not leading with the centrepiece TR attacker alongside Oranguru was namely - I didn't want to put added first-turn pressure on the ape while Araquanid merely Protects 9 out of 10 times, especially with the power influx of Megas & Z-Moves; why not lead with Magnezone instead, something that isn't afraid to attack right off the bat thanks to Air Balloon/Sturdy to soften up the opponents' team, that also resides within that awkward, middling Speed tier before TR goes up? This puts pressure on opposing TR leads in particular, which Mag outspeeds and are blasted off the field with Instructed Thunderbolts or Flash Cannons (Slowbro/Slowking I'm looking at you). Might I also mention that offensively and defensively, Magnezone and Araquanid complement each other pretty superbly: the former resists Electric, Flying & Rock, two of which it can hit for SE damage, while the latter resists Fire, Fighting and Ground, two of which it can also land SE damage on.
Since updated Poke Bank is now out, there are probably more worthwhile options to consider for the final slot than Mimikyu; still, I'd prefer to see this team run its course with an unaltered roster. The Pikachu wannabe fulfills the role it was intended for, anyway - secondary dispatcher of threats to the rest of the team in general, Fighting switch-in, and reasonably quick Taunter - which often comes in handy lategame against stall trash that love to burn up valuable TR turns. Oh, and having a backup "answer" for the ever-encroaching Dragons is nice, too.
Alright, now's the time to share a list of threats I've started to compile over time playing with this team, and a few Battle Videos I've saved along the way. I wish I had the same typing fluency of Battle Maison veterans such as Jumpman, VaporeonIce, The Dutch Plumberjack etc.; the amount of detail they go into at times is incredible, from documenting extensive theorymon thoughts, detailing epic war stories, to analyzing every facet of their team to make it as perfect as humanly possible. Perhaps I should endeavour to become better at this in the future. But alas, I feel like I've rambled on long enough now!
(In general) Double targets on Oranguru: Calc, calc, calc, especially for potential Z-Move users. If the combination of two moves can KO him, Protect if Magnezone can ideally take one of them out.
[Note that much of this advice should be taken with a grain of salt, since the Pokemon sitting in the other slot also has a heavy impact in deciding the optimal play.]
Garchomp:- (Scarf) Not much of a problem, often locks into Fire Fang to hit Magnezone.
- (Mega) Requires a little prior damage for Hydro Vortex/Instructed Liquidation, but again, Air Balloon makes it largely a non-issue.
Rotom Formes: Bulky, annoying, they like to use Thunder Wave/whip out a Z-Move from time to time. Best bet is to weaken them until Araquanid can come in safely to finish them off. Watch out for Passho Berry Rotom-Heat as well.
Mega Beedrill: Switch to Mimikyu, Thunderbolt into it, Shadow Sneak next turn.
Sceptile: Keep Lightning Rod in mind for the Mega variant.
Mega Lopunny: Protect Magnezone to punish either Fake Out/High Jump Kick.
Manectric: Don't switch Magnezone out Turn 1 so you can see if it's Mega or not. If so, get some Psychic chip damage off so Liquidation can finish it off later (you'll also avoid getting Intimidated this way).
Talonflame: Make sure it's not at full HP if you bring Araquanid in on it, so you don't eat a potential Gale Wings Brave Bird.
Salamence: Magnezone deals with it comfortably by attacking Turn 1 while TR goes up, then finishing it off the next turn.
Thundurus/Tornadus: Thunderbolt, since Liquidation doesn't OHKO either should you choose to switch in fear of Focus Blast.
Archeops: Protect with Oranguru + Thunderbolt; the Choice Band one OHKO's with Head Smash.
Mega Metagross: Needs to be worn down a bit, especially since Hydro Vortex has a chance to not OHKO.
Latios/Latias: Soften them up with Flash Cannon so Araquanid can Leech Life KO later.
Infernape: Often seen with a fellow Fire type, make sure the Sash variant has been hit before Araquanid comes in.
Virizion: Soften up with Psychic/Flash Cannon.
Zapdos2: Make sure you get Araquanid in safely; Hydro Vortex ignores the evasion boosts from Double Team if that gets too out of hand.
Togedemaru (Lightning Rod): Irritating mon that likes to Fake Out, Nuzzle & Spiky Shield. If its teammate doesn't threaten Araquanid, get it in quickly so the rodent can be eradicated.
Mimikyu: Get rid of Disguise ASAP. Flash Cannon + Instruct the following turn gets the job done.
Mega Sharpedo: Protect Oranguru, Thunderbolt.
Mega Medicham: Protect Magnezone to punish Fake Out/High Jump Kick.
Articuno: Thunderbolt immediately, don't play any games with the Mind Reader/Sheer Cold one.
Altaria: Flash Cannon to potentially catch it Mega Evolving.
Charizard: I generally Volt Switch, Hydro Vortex KO's either X or Y.
Breloom: Flash Cannon so it can't Sub/Focus Punch for free.
Mienshao: Same as with Medicham.
Tyrantrum4: Protect Oranguru, Flash Cannon.
Regigigas: Either chip away with Thunderbolt or Volt Switch out to Araquanid under TR; you don't want to cop a Confuse Ray on the spider.
Uxie/Mesprit: Wear them down with Thunderbolts for Araquanid later; Yawn & Thunder Wave are the more annoying moves they'll use.
Electivire: Psychic chip damage --> Liquidation.
Incineroar: Tough customer since you don't know whether Flare Blitz or Darkest Lariat/Crunch is coming. I normally sac Magnezone to get Araquanid in safely, especially with the Quick Claw variant.
Clawitzer4: Protect Oranguru, Thunderbolt.
Alolan Marowak2: Either switch to Araquanid if the situation permits, or sac Magnezone to get him in safely under TR.
Cresselia: Hydro Vortex 2/3 if it Double Teams too much. They're also Taunt-bait for Mimikyu if required.
Mega Camerupt: Outslows Araquanid under TR, try to bring it in without prior damage; Camerupt3's Ancient Power can be a little troublesome otherwise.
Goodra: It's bulky and resists Liquidation (no shit); stay in and Flash Cannon.
Mega Venusaur: Same thing, needs to be worn down. Don't let it Sub for free if possible.
Drampa: Same.
Mega Scizor: Protect Oranguru, hope you get the 91.4% 2HKO.
Mega Heracross: Protect Oranguru, hope Mag doesn't get double targeted, Volt Switch --> Play Rough.
Lanturn: You'll need to test whether it's Volt or Water Absorb, thankfully doesn't threaten Oranguru/Magnezone much offensively, can be worn down/forced to Rest with repeated hits.
Glaceon/Walrein: Get rid of ASAP due to hax potential with Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt respectively.
[Insert threatening slow Rock type]: Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt. Keep in mind Rhyperior could have Lightning Rod/Sturdy (also Hammer Arm, got swept by that monster early on in a previous streak when I mistakenly setup TR in its face), also Aggron's Metal Burst. Golem/Probopass3 sometimes like Exploding straight away.
Mega Swampert: A little prior damage ensures the Hydro Vortex KO.
Blissey: Hydro Vortex.
Gastrodon: Problematic if the fear of potential Storm Drain is forcing you into a bad spot; thankfully the few times I faced one I was able to work around it, but might require biting the bullet and Liquidationing into it to test. Cradily is less of a problem since it doesn't like Flash Cannon.
Druddigon: Wear down with Psychic/Flash Cannons.
Armaldo: Protect Oranguru, Flash Cannon.
Vikavolt: Get Araquanid in safely, either Hydro Vortex OHKO or Instruct Liquidation.
Golisopod: Protect Oranguru on incoming First Impression, Thunderbolt.
Dhelmise: Instruct Flash Cannon.
[Insert opposing TR setter/abuser, Slowbro/King for example]: Instructed Thunderbolts/Flash Cannons seem to do the trick.
Escavalier3/4: Protect Oranguru Turn 1, Thunderbolt, switch out to Mimikyu and Thunderbolt again Turn 2 if you can. You don't want to risk the 58.6% 2HKO and have Oranguru go down.
Ferrothorn: Certainly annoying without a Fire move, little offensive presence fortunately. Just keep chipping away at it.
Conkeldurr4: Protect Oranguru to avoid Fling (also slower than Araquanid with the Iron Ball), hope for Thunderbolt 93.8% 2HKO.
[Note that much of this advice should be taken with a grain of salt, since the Pokemon sitting in the other slot also has a heavy impact in deciding the optimal play.]
Garchomp:- (Scarf) Not much of a problem, often locks into Fire Fang to hit Magnezone.
- (Mega) Requires a little prior damage for Hydro Vortex/Instructed Liquidation, but again, Air Balloon makes it largely a non-issue.
Rotom Formes: Bulky, annoying, they like to use Thunder Wave/whip out a Z-Move from time to time. Best bet is to weaken them until Araquanid can come in safely to finish them off. Watch out for Passho Berry Rotom-Heat as well.
Mega Beedrill: Switch to Mimikyu, Thunderbolt into it, Shadow Sneak next turn.
Sceptile: Keep Lightning Rod in mind for the Mega variant.
Mega Lopunny: Protect Magnezone to punish either Fake Out/High Jump Kick.
Manectric: Don't switch Magnezone out Turn 1 so you can see if it's Mega or not. If so, get some Psychic chip damage off so Liquidation can finish it off later (you'll also avoid getting Intimidated this way).
Talonflame: Make sure it's not at full HP if you bring Araquanid in on it, so you don't eat a potential Gale Wings Brave Bird.
Salamence: Magnezone deals with it comfortably by attacking Turn 1 while TR goes up, then finishing it off the next turn.
Thundurus/Tornadus: Thunderbolt, since Liquidation doesn't OHKO either should you choose to switch in fear of Focus Blast.
Archeops: Protect with Oranguru + Thunderbolt; the Choice Band one OHKO's with Head Smash.
Mega Metagross: Needs to be worn down a bit, especially since Hydro Vortex has a chance to not OHKO.
Latios/Latias: Soften them up with Flash Cannon so Araquanid can Leech Life KO later.
Infernape: Often seen with a fellow Fire type, make sure the Sash variant has been hit before Araquanid comes in.
Virizion: Soften up with Psychic/Flash Cannon.
Zapdos2: Make sure you get Araquanid in safely; Hydro Vortex ignores the evasion boosts from Double Team if that gets too out of hand.
Togedemaru (Lightning Rod): Irritating mon that likes to Fake Out, Nuzzle & Spiky Shield. If its teammate doesn't threaten Araquanid, get it in quickly so the rodent can be eradicated.
Mimikyu: Get rid of Disguise ASAP. Flash Cannon + Instruct the following turn gets the job done.
Mega Sharpedo: Protect Oranguru, Thunderbolt.
Mega Medicham: Protect Magnezone to punish Fake Out/High Jump Kick.
Articuno: Thunderbolt immediately, don't play any games with the Mind Reader/Sheer Cold one.
Altaria: Flash Cannon to potentially catch it Mega Evolving.
Charizard: I generally Volt Switch, Hydro Vortex KO's either X or Y.
Breloom: Flash Cannon so it can't Sub/Focus Punch for free.
Mienshao: Same as with Medicham.
Tyrantrum4: Protect Oranguru, Flash Cannon.
Regigigas: Either chip away with Thunderbolt or Volt Switch out to Araquanid under TR; you don't want to cop a Confuse Ray on the spider.
Uxie/Mesprit: Wear them down with Thunderbolts for Araquanid later; Yawn & Thunder Wave are the more annoying moves they'll use.
Electivire: Psychic chip damage --> Liquidation.
Incineroar: Tough customer since you don't know whether Flare Blitz or Darkest Lariat/Crunch is coming. I normally sac Magnezone to get Araquanid in safely, especially with the Quick Claw variant.
Clawitzer4: Protect Oranguru, Thunderbolt.
Alolan Marowak2: Either switch to Araquanid if the situation permits, or sac Magnezone to get him in safely under TR.
Cresselia: Hydro Vortex 2/3 if it Double Teams too much. They're also Taunt-bait for Mimikyu if required.
Mega Camerupt: Outslows Araquanid under TR, try to bring it in without prior damage; Camerupt3's Ancient Power can be a little troublesome otherwise.
Goodra: It's bulky and resists Liquidation (no shit); stay in and Flash Cannon.
Mega Venusaur: Same thing, needs to be worn down. Don't let it Sub for free if possible.
Drampa: Same.
Mega Scizor: Protect Oranguru, hope you get the 91.4% 2HKO.
Mega Heracross: Protect Oranguru, hope Mag doesn't get double targeted, Volt Switch --> Play Rough.
Lanturn: You'll need to test whether it's Volt or Water Absorb, thankfully doesn't threaten Oranguru/Magnezone much offensively, can be worn down/forced to Rest with repeated hits.
Glaceon/Walrein: Get rid of ASAP due to hax potential with Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt respectively.
[Insert threatening slow Rock type]: Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt. Keep in mind Rhyperior could have Lightning Rod/Sturdy (also Hammer Arm, got swept by that monster early on in a previous streak when I mistakenly setup TR in its face), also Aggron's Metal Burst. Golem/Probopass3 sometimes like Exploding straight away.
Mega Swampert: A little prior damage ensures the Hydro Vortex KO.
Blissey: Hydro Vortex.
Gastrodon: Problematic if the fear of potential Storm Drain is forcing you into a bad spot; thankfully the few times I faced one I was able to work around it, but might require biting the bullet and Liquidationing into it to test. Cradily is less of a problem since it doesn't like Flash Cannon.
Druddigon: Wear down with Psychic/Flash Cannons.
Armaldo: Protect Oranguru, Flash Cannon.
Vikavolt: Get Araquanid in safely, either Hydro Vortex OHKO or Instruct Liquidation.
Golisopod: Protect Oranguru on incoming First Impression, Thunderbolt.
Dhelmise: Instruct Flash Cannon.
[Insert opposing TR setter/abuser, Slowbro/King for example]: Instructed Thunderbolts/Flash Cannons seem to do the trick.
Escavalier3/4: Protect Oranguru Turn 1, Thunderbolt, switch out to Mimikyu and Thunderbolt again Turn 2 if you can. You don't want to risk the 58.6% 2HKO and have Oranguru go down.
Ferrothorn: Certainly annoying without a Fire move, little offensive presence fortunately. Just keep chipping away at it.
Conkeldurr4: Protect Oranguru to avoid Fling (also slower than Araquanid with the Iron Ball), hope for Thunderbolt 93.8% 2HKO.
Battle No. 240 vs Wally: DCRW-WWWW-WWW4-SF5G [Altaria/Garchomp/Gallade/Magnezone]
- Just showing how Scarf Chomp is much less of a threat when it's forced to Fire Fang instead of Earthquake; Magnezone did its job wonderfully so I leave it in to sac, getting a free switch-in to Araquanid.
Battle No. 318 vs Backpacker Fernanda: WBSW-WWWW-WWW4-SF6F [Heatran/Tornadus/Latias/Moltres]
- Flawless battle. How nice of Heatran to miss Magma Storm and Tornadus to setup the rain for me. Also lmao @ boosted Hydro Vortex OHKO'ing Latias.
Battle No. 332 vs Black Belt Boris: 6WGG-WWWW-WWW4-SF6R [Aggron/Kingdra/Hydreigon/Gogoat]
- Again, Kingdra had Araquanid's best interests in mind by using Rain Dance for me. This was the first battle where the AI made a double switch; no matter though cause boosted Liquidations hit like a truck.
Battle No. 416 vs Preschooler Reina: ERUG-WWWW-WWW4-SF7B [Greninja/Sceptile/Incineroar/Emboar]
- More switches, even more erratic than the last time!
Battle No. 426 vs Sightseer Christian: SUMW-WWWW-WWW4-SF82 [Porygon-Z/Latios/Chandelure/Gengar]
- It didn't cross my mind that Oranguru could get KO'd from the start here, but due to aimless Recovering from Porygon and Latios continuously lowering its Special Attack, I was able to pull it back without TR, setting up with Mimikyu.
Battle No. 441 vs Ace Trainer Hashim: M74W-WWWW-WWW4-SF8F [Scizor/Milotic/Shuckle/Gyarados]
- Showcasing how dominant Magnezone and Mimikyu were in this matchup, Taunt to prevent Shuckle from getting up to annoying shenanigans (lol @ Contrary Attack raise).
Last edited:
The issue with 2 shotting is Kangaskhan's survivability is incredibly limited without any recovery as Mega Kangaskhan. You basically don't 1 shot anything, but you 2 shot almost everything. This is far from as reliable as Mega-Salamence setup sweeping is.
Posting an AI Multis streak of 109 wins.
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
Shutterpike (Tapu Lele) @ Psychium-Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Protect
AI Partner: Entei3/Mawile3
I played this streak on v1.0 a few weeks ago - the battle videos ended up becoming unwatchable by virtue of the v1.1 update while I was being lazy, so I reverted to v1.0 by uninstalling the patch to record a video of them and post this streak.
I had Veteran Dooley as the AI partner with Entei3 (Inner Focus) and Mawile3 (Sheer Force). I previously planned to use Scarf Bulu / Lele with a different AI partner that had Lucario3/Alakazam4, but this other good AI partner I had seemed like a better fit for pairing up Bulu.
Grassy Terrain halves damage from Earthquake, helping Entei out a little on that front, and Wood Hammer removes Water- and Rock- types that Entei loses to. I went with a Jolly nature to outspeed Mega Gengar, Crobat, Aerodactyl4 and Braviary3 with a Scarf to be able to move before being KO'd. For the back-up, the options were slim with the Pokémon I had available prior to Bank, so I took Tapu Lele despite the stacked weaknesses aiming to outmuscle the AI in a pinch.
Mega Mawile has potential to be strong, but Sheer Force is a poor ability and the AI is really not good at choosing moves - additionally, Psychic Terrain from Lele prevents it from using Sucker Punch, though I have severely doubt the AI's capacity to use the move effectively even outside terrain restrictions.
I got rather lucky during this streak - it was my first attempt at Super Multis with this AI partner, and the one that got me the stamp. There's not much to say about AI Multis - it's still very luck-based, and the AI partner's moves seem even more unpredictable than last generation. It was a lot of fun playing absurd battles and watching the AI partner stumble on itself, as seen in the battles in the above video. The quirk of Mawile using Sucker Punch repeatedly on Cresselia4 holding Iron Ball in Psychic Terrain was the first time I saw the AI use priority moves that are guaranteed to fail under terrain effects, it seems that Iron Ball canceling Levitate is not something the AI can adapt to.
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
Shutterpike (Tapu Lele) @ Psychium-Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Protect
AI Partner: Entei3/Mawile3
I played this streak on v1.0 a few weeks ago - the battle videos ended up becoming unwatchable by virtue of the v1.1 update while I was being lazy, so I reverted to v1.0 by uninstalling the patch to record a video of them and post this streak.
I had Veteran Dooley as the AI partner with Entei3 (Inner Focus) and Mawile3 (Sheer Force). I previously planned to use Scarf Bulu / Lele with a different AI partner that had Lucario3/Alakazam4, but this other good AI partner I had seemed like a better fit for pairing up Bulu.
Grassy Terrain halves damage from Earthquake, helping Entei out a little on that front, and Wood Hammer removes Water- and Rock- types that Entei loses to. I went with a Jolly nature to outspeed Mega Gengar, Crobat, Aerodactyl4 and Braviary3 with a Scarf to be able to move before being KO'd. For the back-up, the options were slim with the Pokémon I had available prior to Bank, so I took Tapu Lele despite the stacked weaknesses aiming to outmuscle the AI in a pinch.
Mega Mawile has potential to be strong, but Sheer Force is a poor ability and the AI is really not good at choosing moves - additionally, Psychic Terrain from Lele prevents it from using Sucker Punch, though I have severely doubt the AI's capacity to use the move effectively even outside terrain restrictions.
I got rather lucky during this streak - it was my first attempt at Super Multis with this AI partner, and the one that got me the stamp. There's not much to say about AI Multis - it's still very luck-based, and the AI partner's moves seem even more unpredictable than last generation. It was a lot of fun playing absurd battles and watching the AI partner stumble on itself, as seen in the battles in the above video. The quirk of Mawile using Sucker Punch repeatedly on Cresselia4 holding Iron Ball in Psychic Terrain was the first time I saw the AI use priority moves that are guaranteed to fail under terrain effects, it seems that Iron Ball canceling Levitate is not something the AI can adapt to.
I note with mild interest that Banked pokes who were used to defeat a Chatelaine last gen have automatically gotten the ribbon for beating a "Battle Legend" in the tree. They don't recycle the ribbon or flavor text.
I'm sorry but I can't resist commenting on this guy here (referenced about 20 pages back):
Please just watch from the 10:55 mark, and listen to the minute or so here. We hear quite a few perplexing things:
"I should live that, Blissey doesn't have...I mean...I don't know..."
He trails off here, in a disappointment that indicates clearly that he knows he estimated wrong, which I totally get and actually respect in the heat of the battle. That said:
252 SpA Chansey Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 112-136 (61.2 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(112, 116, 116, 116, 120, 120, 120, 124, 124, 124, 128, 128, 128, 132, 132, 136)
This is Chansey. Not Blissey. 35 Base SpA Chansey. And even *it* would have killed his 95HP Garchomp every time.
In fact, there are 42 users of Ice Beam in the Tree. Outside of unSchooled Wishiwashi, Blissey3 carries the literal weakest Ice Beam in the Tree.
I put it in these terms because I don't get how someone who's played at least 800 battles in the Battle Tree alone, let alone of Pokemon in general, wouldn't have a good sense of how much Garchomp takes from any reasonable Ice attack, especially around 50% HP.
It gets weirder, though:
"It definitely won't live a +1 Waterfall, no way. I refuse to believe that."
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 226-267 (62.4 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(226, 229, 231, 234, 237, 240, 241, 244, 247, 250, 253, 255, 258, 261, 264, 267
This is assuming he's Adamant. I mean, I guess if he feels Blissey won't have any Defensive investment, then yeah, he can kill, but he's familiar with Blissey4: "What's Blissey gonna do, Minimize?" He's likely seen how that thing takes physical attacks, and correctly states that it will die to a +2 EQ—meaning, importantly, that he knows it wont just die to +0 EQ:
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 301-355 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
(301, 304, 309, 312, 315, 319, 322, 327, 330, 333, 337, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355)
I'm not nitpicking here whatsoever at the 91%. Just pointing out that:
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Blissey: 310-366 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
(310, 313, 318, 321, 325, 328, 333, 336, 339, 343, 346, 351, 354, 358, 361, 366)
He wouldn't SD (and say he needs to SD) if he felt Blissey had zero Def EVs. So it's baffling that he thinks Blissey3 is dying to +1 Waterfall. Even Blissey4 takes 81% max from Adamant Gyara's +1 Waterfall. And it's the "I refuse to believe that" that sticks with me...why? Why is that something you "refuse" to believe at nearly 800-straight wins? Ignorance is one thing, but a defiant ignorance kind of sticks in my craw a bit.
Weirder still, though:
"Whatever you wanna go for. Don't WoW me, though. I hope you don't have WoW. I don't know, the AI likes to hack."
lol are you kidding me? I don't get it, it really seems like a troll at this point. It's in the same vein as the ignorant defiance labeled above...feeling that the game is against you and numbers/data don't matter. Very puzzling from someone with an 800-battle win streak.
He does go on to say: "I'm guessing Chansey does have...I'm thinking more about Chansey without Eviolite"
Even with this, though:
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 247-292 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(247, 250, 253, 256, 259, 262, 265, 268, 271, 274, 277, 280, 283, 286, 289, 292)
Still never dies, even with the fair "confusion" of Chansey and Blissey that someone who's played OU could mentally make when trying the Battle Tree.
Coming from me, of course, such a post may seem like sour grapes or whatever, which is totally fair. I'm still undefeated in the Tree, though, so please just take this at face value. I know I am speaking on behalf of many people when I say that I genuinely don't get how you get to 800 wins without looking at the database (or even knowing whether one exists). I mean, I guess I do know how, because the one thing I truly admire about this guy is that's he's more forthright than just about anyone is willing or able to be, in posting so many battles real time.
That said...I could just say that "this guy is lucky", but then this post is a mean, pointless callout to someone who doesn't even post here. Again, I'd be jealous or whatever if I'd lost yet, but I can say with complete confidence that even if my Kangliscune team hadn't been nerfed, I would have a tough time getting to 800 without looking at the movesets. And this guy is evidently changing teams every 100 battles. What do you all think?
Please just watch from the 10:55 mark, and listen to the minute or so here. We hear quite a few perplexing things:
"I should live that, Blissey doesn't have...I mean...I don't know..."
He trails off here, in a disappointment that indicates clearly that he knows he estimated wrong, which I totally get and actually respect in the heat of the battle. That said:
252 SpA Chansey Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 112-136 (61.2 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(112, 116, 116, 116, 120, 120, 120, 124, 124, 124, 128, 128, 128, 132, 132, 136)
This is Chansey. Not Blissey. 35 Base SpA Chansey. And even *it* would have killed his 95HP Garchomp every time.
In fact, there are 42 users of Ice Beam in the Tree. Outside of unSchooled Wishiwashi, Blissey3 carries the literal weakest Ice Beam in the Tree.
I put it in these terms because I don't get how someone who's played at least 800 battles in the Battle Tree alone, let alone of Pokemon in general, wouldn't have a good sense of how much Garchomp takes from any reasonable Ice attack, especially around 50% HP.
It gets weirder, though:
"It definitely won't live a +1 Waterfall, no way. I refuse to believe that."
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 226-267 (62.4 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(226, 229, 231, 234, 237, 240, 241, 244, 247, 250, 253, 255, 258, 261, 264, 267
This is assuming he's Adamant. I mean, I guess if he feels Blissey won't have any Defensive investment, then yeah, he can kill, but he's familiar with Blissey4: "What's Blissey gonna do, Minimize?" He's likely seen how that thing takes physical attacks, and correctly states that it will die to a +2 EQ—meaning, importantly, that he knows it wont just die to +0 EQ:
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 301-355 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
(301, 304, 309, 312, 315, 319, 322, 327, 330, 333, 337, 340, 343, 348, 351, 355)
I'm not nitpicking here whatsoever at the 91%. Just pointing out that:
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Blissey: 310-366 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
(310, 313, 318, 321, 325, 328, 333, 336, 339, 343, 346, 351, 354, 358, 361, 366)
He wouldn't SD (and say he needs to SD) if he felt Blissey had zero Def EVs. So it's baffling that he thinks Blissey3 is dying to +1 Waterfall. Even Blissey4 takes 81% max from Adamant Gyara's +1 Waterfall. And it's the "I refuse to believe that" that sticks with me...why? Why is that something you "refuse" to believe at nearly 800-straight wins? Ignorance is one thing, but a defiant ignorance kind of sticks in my craw a bit.
Weirder still, though:
"Whatever you wanna go for. Don't WoW me, though. I hope you don't have WoW. I don't know, the AI likes to hack."
lol are you kidding me? I don't get it, it really seems like a troll at this point. It's in the same vein as the ignorant defiance labeled above...feeling that the game is against you and numbers/data don't matter. Very puzzling from someone with an 800-battle win streak.
He does go on to say: "I'm guessing Chansey does have...I'm thinking more about Chansey without Eviolite"
Even with this, though:
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 247-292 (69.1 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(247, 250, 253, 256, 259, 262, 265, 268, 271, 274, 277, 280, 283, 286, 289, 292)
Still never dies, even with the fair "confusion" of Chansey and Blissey that someone who's played OU could mentally make when trying the Battle Tree.
Coming from me, of course, such a post may seem like sour grapes or whatever, which is totally fair. I'm still undefeated in the Tree, though, so please just take this at face value. I know I am speaking on behalf of many people when I say that I genuinely don't get how you get to 800 wins without looking at the database (or even knowing whether one exists). I mean, I guess I do know how, because the one thing I truly admire about this guy is that's he's more forthright than just about anyone is willing or able to be, in posting so many battles real time.
That said...I could just say that "this guy is lucky", but then this post is a mean, pointless callout to someone who doesn't even post here. Again, I'd be jealous or whatever if I'd lost yet, but I can say with complete confidence that even if my Kangliscune team hadn't been nerfed, I would have a tough time getting to 800 without looking at the movesets. And this guy is evidently changing teams every 100 battles. What do you all think?
Last edited:
Even without Gale Wings, Talonflame can still fly! Or at least it could against my team of Arcanine, Tsareena, and Gastrodon. One Swords Dance, and it was all over. Curse Gastrodon sounds neat, but you have to live long enough to Curse first.
As for the database, I like being surprised by the silly AI movesets like Encore Slaking. Half the fun is wondering what the programmers were thinking. :)
As for the database, I like being surprised by the silly AI movesets like Encore Slaking. Half the fun is wondering what the programmers were thinking. :)
Not really worth that much discussion other than it's obviously fake.
Well if you think it's fake, wouldn't that mean it's possible to hack a streak number? He's clearly actually playing a lot of battles, albeit badly—it'd be a weird troll if he has some masterteam that he does the balance of his off-camera battles with.
I think you might be giving this guy a little too much credit is what I think. Of course, this is coming from a standpoint of not having touched the Tree, so there's a chance I might be way off base here, but after reading your analysis, two things about it stood out to me:
That could imply he is familiar with Blissey4 as a specific set that is used in the Tree, or it could indicate he just made a lucky guess (possibly based on encounters with that same Blissey in the past, or possibly just based on a general knowledge of Blissey's movepool and the tactics that the Battle facilities use). I feel like "familiarity with Blissey" of any sort is basically thrown out the window in the video itself: immediately prior to Blissey being sent out, Garchomp is up against Pinsir (which I ended up seeing when I scrolled back too far in the video to "restart" the segment). "This might be Mega," he says, a reasonable assumption to make when 1 of 4 Pinsir is Mega. As it turns out, it is Mega. He reacts to this with "I think we Speed tie[...] if he's Jolly, though." Pinsir3 is indeed Jolly but you would think he would remember that rather than saying "if he's Jolly, we'll speed tie" rather than remembering that the only Mega Pinsir in the tree is Jolly.
This is then followed by an extremely telling statement: "I would've just went for Return, man, why'd you go for Superpower?... Maybe it doesn't have it." He's right. Pinsir3 doesn't have Return. But neither does Pinsir1, or Pinsir2, or Pinsir4. No Pinsir in the Battle Tree has Return.
Following this, we get the Blissey. "What is Blissey gonna do, Minimize?" Like you said and I remarked on, this could indicate a familiarity with Blissey4, whether as a knowledge of the set or the fact that Blissey has used Minimize in an encounter before, but - what is Blissey gonna do, Minimize, which indicates he thinks the only offensive option Blissey has against his Garchomp is evasion hax. This would seem to indicate he's never so much as conceived of the fact that Blissey has a special set that carries Ice Beam (an obvious threat to a weakened Garchomp), which seems to be confirmed when he goes on to say "Goes for - aw, come on! What is a special Blissey?" He hadn't so much as considered the possibility of a special Blissey prior, even after close to 800 battles. So maybe it was with a different team every time and some weren't threatened by Blissey's low-SpA attacks, I can't say. But somehow, somehow, he got to this point without so much as considering the idea that Blissey could have special attacks like a threatening (in this situation) Ice Beam. Not to mention his statement that he needed to go for Swords Dance "'cause I don't want to mess around with this Blissey, which should Minimize right off the bat" - really? Blissey as a species is going to Minimize immediately? I'm sure you can also see the issue here.
And this: I'm not sure where you're getting "say he needs to SD", with that degree of certainty, from. What he says is "I'm pretty sure a Swords Dance Earthquake will kill it", another degree of uncertainty that seems to go along with what I've said before. Yes, the implication here is indeed that a +2 Earthquake will succeed where a non-boosted Earthquake fails. I wonder if maybe he somehow found that an unboosted Earthquake wouldn't kill [some species of Blissey he met in the past] and extrapolated from there that +2 Earthquake would kill (and maybe confirmed this), except assumed it might apply to all Blissey, and perhaps extrapolated from there that a +1 Waterfall is going to kill. None of the Blissey are OHKO'd by a standard +1 Waterfall under any circumstance, which would suggest he never checked this specific calculation and is literally just making on-the-fly assumptions about the relative power of Earthquake and Waterfall coming off their respective users, even if said calculation doesn't... really make any sense because if he knows the base stats and relative powers of his Pokémon why would he screw up the relationship between them? Don't ask me, I've never been good enough to have this stuff memorized myself.
The evidence in this seems to more support the fact he's drawing off personal experiences with the tree (Blissey may have Minimized in the past, so he expects it; +0 Earthquake may have failed to KO in the past, and he expects it) rather than ever having done calculations or checked movesets.
So I'mma have to go with GG Unit here and just say it's fake and, further, that there isn't any "conflicting message" of foreknowledge versus not foreknowledge that you seem to indicate; it's just somebody playing based on experience with no prior planning whatsoever and only picking up some details from personal experience but not all of them, or not the relevant ones.
(For the record, this was the way I played the Battle Tower in Platinum prior to finding the original Tower/Frontier thread here. I never made it past about 58 wins.)
Okay, I got ninja'd.
Dunno much about 3DS hacking but isn't it possible to create effective savestates? If he cheats, I'm thinking it's more likely he just resets a save state and continues on from there for an effective appearance of the number of wins he claims to have, rather than hacking the number itself.
Just my two cents which may easily be ignored despite this being a massive textwall! :V
People are already using save reloading and PGL exploits to not only undo their bans, but effectively reinstate their PGL accounts without any data loss. I am absolutely certain that reloading saves to undo streak losses is not only easy, but people have been doing it since last gen as well. And they usually get caught, for the reasons you guys have illustrated.
I'm kinda surprised Altissimo didn't already throw Fluke's name down (hee) because he basically did exactly what you said, Jump- posted some 800+ wins and gave an "analysis" that clearly indicated he hadn't memorized anything in all that time. He gave a bunch of bogus damage calcs for nonexistent spreads and deliciously alluded to the fabled Quick Claw Walrein.
I don't watch any LPs but I know from talking to friends that do their own that it's a common practice to record blocks of footage and redo it if they make a hiccup or otherwise don't like it. Sounds unrelated at first, but being an LP means they're rambling the whole time, and when they rerecord they get to ramble all over again. Sooo I believe the phony player is just giving himself a designated milestone of battles to complete, uttering some nonsense while playing them, and if he loses, he just reloads and repeats the process.
Edit: You were more than likely off-site at the time, Jump, but a month or two ago there was a brief squabble in this thread for basically the same reason. A streak was called out as illegitimate and it was fairly likely that save states were used. I can for the most part corroborate that claim only because I used an extremely similar team to topple the starter tree milestones for some quick BP, and the suspect team was *barely* reliable enough to do even that.
I'm kinda surprised Altissimo didn't already throw Fluke's name down (hee) because he basically did exactly what you said, Jump- posted some 800+ wins and gave an "analysis" that clearly indicated he hadn't memorized anything in all that time. He gave a bunch of bogus damage calcs for nonexistent spreads and deliciously alluded to the fabled Quick Claw Walrein.
I don't watch any LPs but I know from talking to friends that do their own that it's a common practice to record blocks of footage and redo it if they make a hiccup or otherwise don't like it. Sounds unrelated at first, but being an LP means they're rambling the whole time, and when they rerecord they get to ramble all over again. Sooo I believe the phony player is just giving himself a designated milestone of battles to complete, uttering some nonsense while playing them, and if he loses, he just reloads and repeats the process.
Edit: You were more than likely off-site at the time, Jump, but a month or two ago there was a brief squabble in this thread for basically the same reason. A streak was called out as illegitimate and it was fairly likely that save states were used. I can for the most part corroborate that claim only because I used an extremely similar team to topple the starter tree milestones for some quick BP, and the suspect team was *barely* reliable enough to do even that.
Last edited:
After some research, not only can you easily backup your save and reload it if needed, PKHeX save editor lets people modify their tree achievements and current active streak.
http://imgur.com/a/vdz5t
This is the second time I've seen HP Ground mentioned, so I think it prudent to tell everyone that I have in fact played myself, and perhaps by extension, some of you. I got lucky while breeding Porygons so I just happened to have an HP Ground Porygon-Z I could hyper train to max IVs. These days I prefer Recover, because really all HP Ground was giving me was a little damage on things like Thick Fat Mamoswine which Gyarados would oneshot anyway. It would also put a big dent into electric types but as I discovered Recover is much better for that, since Thunderbolt and Ice Beam do so much damage and Porygon resists Electric types anyway. Case in point I used to have a big problem with Raikou but with Recover Porygon-Z beats it soundly so long as its Z move is burned.
Nasty Plot is another good option I didn't think of. I might steal you back.
I'm thinking the guy had to have hacked the number. Because even if he reloaded save states on losses, he'd STILL have to play 800+ battles and get way more familiar with Tree threats than he exhibits in his recordings. This is simple hacking by a very clueless battler.
Say, are the battles past 40 relegated to a flat 100 trainers still? If so, would we be able to identify trainers/sets he shouldn't be fighting for the indicated milestone?
Then again is it even worth calling this guy out? Doing so on his channel would come off as petty and just result in a block with the comment deleted. Saying something under the guise of innocence "hey you should come to smogon and show off the achievement, they would be amazed" would be conniving.
If you really wanted to we could just drop a comment on his YT like "hey, some people here have questions about your streak, would you like to talk" idk
Hey guys. I just had a 44 win streak at the tree, however I'm looking for some adjustments to my team. What kind of changes could I make ? I currently use those three :
Mimikyu @ Red Card
Ability : Disguise
Nature : Jolly
EVs : 252 Atk 252 Spd, 6 HP
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
I start with this guy, usually I use SD once and then start to sweep the opponent's team, which works very well in most cases.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability : Intimidation/Aerilate
Nature : Jolly
EVs : 252 Atk 252 Spd 6 HP
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
I could use the set with Roost but I like having multiple attacking moves to have a better cover of types.
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability : Electric Surge
Nature : Timid
EVs : 252 SpA 252 Spd 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
I think my issue comes from this guy. I really love him, Thunderbolt destroys a lot of people, but running two fairy types might be an issue and don't think I'll be ready to face up any kind of situation with those 3 offensive beasts. I'm looking for more balance. Mimikyu is like my main man, so I'd rather keep him than Tapu Koko.
I first thought that Greninja could be a great option, as I really enjoyed it on ORAS, but as I said I'm looking for more balance which means a mon that can be effective with SpA moves while also being great defensively. I thought about Suicune. Any ideas ?
Mimikyu @ Red Card
Ability : Disguise
Nature : Jolly
EVs : 252 Atk 252 Spd, 6 HP
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
I start with this guy, usually I use SD once and then start to sweep the opponent's team, which works very well in most cases.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability : Intimidation/Aerilate
Nature : Jolly
EVs : 252 Atk 252 Spd 6 HP
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
I could use the set with Roost but I like having multiple attacking moves to have a better cover of types.
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability : Electric Surge
Nature : Timid
EVs : 252 SpA 252 Spd 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
I think my issue comes from this guy. I really love him, Thunderbolt destroys a lot of people, but running two fairy types might be an issue and don't think I'll be ready to face up any kind of situation with those 3 offensive beasts. I'm looking for more balance. Mimikyu is like my main man, so I'd rather keep him than Tapu Koko.
I first thought that Greninja could be a great option, as I really enjoyed it on ORAS, but as I said I'm looking for more balance which means a mon that can be effective with SpA moves while also being great defensively. I thought about Suicune. Any ideas ?
I scouted a nice partner for Multi Battle; Cynthia that leads with Mega Lucario and Scarfchomp. Any ideas for pokemon for accompany her? Might have Flying pokemon backup when Garchomp spams Earthquake. Mega Salamence sounds nice, but we would be ravaged by stray Blizzard.
I mean, if the guy came here on his own accord I'd be more than happy to eat him alive, but since I wasn't the one who found his vids and because I'm not really one to go looking that stuff up, I have no problem just letting it go. He's full of shit but unlike the guy from earlier he's not trying to sneak something under our noses. We don't add any streak we find to the leaderboard unless they publicly display it here, correct?
That said, I won't think any less of someone who does what you suggested. I'll sit back and lurk like I'm accustomed to, and mebbe smile now and then :P
I have the exact same Cynthia setup, and I've been using lead Nihilego(Focus Sash/HP Ice) with a Pelipper backup. There are probably more synergistic sets you can run, and those are just what I had available at the time.
Vikavolt works well with Scarfchomp. flash Cannon, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, bug buzz is what I run. Let Scarfchomp fire away EQs while levitate keeps Vikavolt safe. I run mine with assault vest since it's slow and usually gets hit first.
Had a Super Doubles 143 streak (lost at 144: R2CW-WWWW-WWW4-UBPF) with the following team:
Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
Gyarados @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Sand Rush Excadrill and Flinchstones got me in the end (Hydro Vortex would've taken it out).
Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
Gyarados @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Sand Rush Excadrill and Flinchstones got me in the end (Hydro Vortex would've taken it out).
I've been lurking here since Black and White and have used teams off of this forum for years to get through the Subway and the Maison. I've never posted a streak before because I never could really claim any team I used. However, I've turned a new leaf this gen. I'm here to post a completed streak in doubles of 122. Ended due to being a dummy and watching TV while playing and not paying attention and switching Metagross into immediate death. In all it's okay though, this team has severe accuracy problems and there was an annoying lack of synergy between Kommo-o and Tapu Fini and now that bank is here I was ready to start a different team. Despite all of the flaws of this team, swagger Fini + M-Metagross are a great combination and I will be making another team that features them better. So lets get to the team:
Salazzle (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Taunt
- Encore
The original concept of the team was to have Kommo-o spread damage through Clanging Scales which is one of the best spread moves in the game, given how good Dragon offense is in general. Kommo-o has loads of flaws, but I needed something to handle status, set up, steels and fairies. At first I tried Oricorio, but Salazzle makes perfect sense. Fast taunt is killer in the tree, and Encore can be great as well when you'd rather lock something into a status move rather than stopping it out right. Salazzle also hits pretty hard, but in the end I wish it had been strong enough to not need fire blast for some KOs. Flamethrower may have been a better option anyway, so I wasn't so tempted to risk it.
Kommo-o (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Soundproof
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 8 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
Here's the nuke. Clanging Scales hits really hard off of modest, and lowering your defense isn't really a huge deal. Focus Blast is incredibly strong, but you guys know how that can go. Didn't use it too much, it missed enough when I did. Thought about switching to sub, but never really pulled the trigger.
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 4 SpA / 76 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 21 Atk
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Swagger
- Protect
This is just so good. So bulky. Enough weakness that protect can redirect alot of attention, but it can tank a ton of powerful SE hits. THe magic here is swagger in the misty terrain. Just swagger the giant tank next to you and the sweeping commences. Speaking of the tank.
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 21 SpA
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
When combined with Misty terrain and swagger support from Tapu Fini, this thing is just incredible. My next team will certainly just go ahead and lead these two and find some better support for them. Even with the sketchy accuracy, +2 anything from this guy just starts wrecking face. The accuracy would've ended this streak at some point, likely sooner rather than later, but you know, I went ahead and ended it by being stupid. RIP the streak.
Here's a couple videos:
Battle 117: BJSG-WWWW-WWW4-UNPF
Just a pretty normal demonstration of the team against a pretty strong opponent.
Battle 123: 7Z2W-WWWW-WWW4-UNAD
The loss. It was winnable, just wasn't paying attention. Shoulda sacked Salazzle and saved M-gross. So it goes.
Salazzle (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Taunt
- Encore
The original concept of the team was to have Kommo-o spread damage through Clanging Scales which is one of the best spread moves in the game, given how good Dragon offense is in general. Kommo-o has loads of flaws, but I needed something to handle status, set up, steels and fairies. At first I tried Oricorio, but Salazzle makes perfect sense. Fast taunt is killer in the tree, and Encore can be great as well when you'd rather lock something into a status move rather than stopping it out right. Salazzle also hits pretty hard, but in the end I wish it had been strong enough to not need fire blast for some KOs. Flamethrower may have been a better option anyway, so I wasn't so tempted to risk it.
Kommo-o (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Soundproof
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpA / 92 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 8 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
Here's the nuke. Clanging Scales hits really hard off of modest, and lowering your defense isn't really a huge deal. Focus Blast is incredibly strong, but you guys know how that can go. Didn't use it too much, it missed enough when I did. Thought about switching to sub, but never really pulled the trigger.
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 4 SpA / 76 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 21 Atk
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Swagger
- Protect
This is just so good. So bulky. Enough weakness that protect can redirect alot of attention, but it can tank a ton of powerful SE hits. THe magic here is swagger in the misty terrain. Just swagger the giant tank next to you and the sweeping commences. Speaking of the tank.
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 21 SpA
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
When combined with Misty terrain and swagger support from Tapu Fini, this thing is just incredible. My next team will certainly just go ahead and lead these two and find some better support for them. Even with the sketchy accuracy, +2 anything from this guy just starts wrecking face. The accuracy would've ended this streak at some point, likely sooner rather than later, but you know, I went ahead and ended it by being stupid. RIP the streak.
Here's a couple videos:
Battle 117: BJSG-WWWW-WWW4-UNPF
Just a pretty normal demonstration of the team against a pretty strong opponent.
Battle 123: 7Z2W-WWWW-WWW4-UNAD
The loss. It was winnable, just wasn't paying attention. Shoulda sacked Salazzle and saved M-gross. So it goes.