Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[Codraroll]

Hey guys! I've been lurking around on this thread for about two years now...

That's quite impressive, seeing as it was only created last November!

I get what you mean, though. Welcome to the Battle Whatever threads! While their titles may change, and viable movesets may change, the spirit remains the same, and the gameplay too because Game Freak are lazy with their postgame content!

 

[Smuckem]

After struggling to find one that could carry its weight in battle, I finally have a battle facility set on the Tree leaderboard! Reporting on ongoing streak of 101 wins in Sun Super Doubles.

I have fought long and hard to avoid the Pheromosa/Tapu Lele core, feeling like it would be kind of boring to adopt the lead pair that I suspect plenty of people will (and have) used to great effect in the Tree. However, after taking a certain QR team that features the pair for a spin and getting 176 wins with it (a streak I sadly have no proof of due to SD card ejection), I couldn't fight the charms of this duo any longer and decided "well, if I have to use it, at least let me use it towards selfish ends." And so, I decided to teambuild around PheroLele, figuring that, if any 'mons could be used to carry a lesser set to Tree success, it could be these two.

FIGHT CLUB (REMIX)

No real reason for the name, I just really like the song:

So, this team is basically built as, "PheroLele with backups that cover their weaknesses", to an extent. This is also my most successful attempt to this point to get a battle facility set (or at least a poor copy of it) onto the leaderboard. One backup is a custom creation made to cover the Fire- and Flying-types that threaten Phero, as well as provide a Z-nuke to simply take out a threat quickly; the other is there to cover the things that Phero covers in case it dies, exploit Psychic Surge via speedy, non-STAB Extrasensory, take out MegaWile, perform cleanup duty with a powerful spread move, and be the facility set being carried to glory.

"Yuhi" (Pheromosa) (Lvl.100)
Focus Sash

Naughty
Ability: Beast Boost
IVs: 31/31/31/31/2/30 (Bottle Capped)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Low Kick / Lunge / Ice Beam-->Protect / Poison Jab

What used to be a more competitive Phero was given a few shots to perform in the Tree untouched, and after underperforming finally made the change from Ice Beam to Protect. This has been the big reason for the team's subsequent improvement, and now Pheromosa is basically here to do Pheromosa things. Many thx to das_eisenherz for trading me this, my first Pheromosa. "Nicknamed" after the Japanese ex-wrestler.

ThinkingCap (Tapu Lele) (Lvl.100) @ Life Orb
Ability: Psychic Surge
IVs: 31/xx/xx/31/31/xx (Bottle Capped)
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 236 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Taunt
- Energy Ball

Same Lele from my attempts with a copy of Team Sharkanine, with two MAJOR twists. With the Choice Scarf now being held by the star of the team, Lele has to pick up something else to abuse its ridiculous power with...enter the Life Orb. This allows it to maintain some of its offensive presence, and leads to the second twist; I now can run Taunt in Dazzling Gleam's place to stop most TR setters and streamline battles by immobilizing stall sets, which facilitates double-targeting by the leads. I also have found that I don't miss Dazzling Gleam much at all. Nicknamed after the Unique helmet from Diablo I.

"BS953" (Entei) (Lvl.100) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
IVs: Not recorded, don't remember (Bottle Capped)
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Solar Beam
- Fire Blast
- Extrasensory
- Eruption

That's right cocksuckers, it's Imperfect Entei3! After seeing several people on the Maison thread talk this up as a viable AI partner in XY Multis, my thought process became, "why not just cut out the middleman and make it myself?" I also thought about using this after having several Maison runs with Scarfed Eruption Typhlosion and wanting to compare the two sets in my hands. This thing is really here just to say I used it, but as mentioned earlier it has carved out a nice niche for itself on this team. Also, it's my favorite of the Legendary Canines and figured it should get some love since the other two have been used more often on this thread so far. Many thx to kilcros, who gifted his copy of Pearl to my brother TheChocoboKing, where I originally found this Entei.

Flyer (Archeops) (M) (Lvl.50) @ Rockium-Z
Ability: Defeatist
IVs: 11-12/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Protect
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- Head Smash

One of my proudest creations this Gen, he is essentially the brainchild of the Discord Tree channel, as several of us there spent an afternoon or two discussing potential Rockium-Z users and eventually came up with this set. For me, it is more or less taking Archeops3 as a base and tweaking it to be as standard as a competitive Archeops can be in this current environment. This demonstrates the need for the team to have great offensive synergy: it is the job of the rest of the team to take out the things he's weak to, particularly opposing priority (as he is not protected by Psychic Surge), so that he can then come in and take out the things that outspeed Lele and take out Phero. He is also an excellent wallbreaker and has the power to bust some of the Tree's evasive foes (I collectively refer to Double Team users & evasion item holders as the Justy Junta). On top of all that, I get to say I got The Defeatist on the Tree leaderboards. Many thx to my homies on the Tree Discord (especially to SadisticMystic for clarifying Acrobatics mechanics with Z-Stones, and the Admins for not immediately shooting down the idea of Archeops in battle facilities outright) for the creative input. Nicknamed after the Mexican wrestler.

The team is currently at 101 wins, and doing well when not dealing with Metagross, Salazzle, Tentacruel (who thankfully has been virtually non-existent up to this point), or the post-Legend Punk Guys. I hope to break my 130-win streak with this (I harbor no illusions about getting back to 425 or higher) and show everyone why they should try the "PheroLele + two mons they like" approach; the leads are that good together.

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Separate note: the QR3 has been updated through here and now features a couple of new inputs from Worldie.

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EDIT: Well, that dream died fast...reporting a completed streak of 101 wins in Super Doubles.

The very next battle after the above writeup started fairly normal and completely fell apart in a couple of turns.

Battle #102, vs. Stellan (Regirock3/Terrakion4/Cofagrigus3/Slwobro3) -- while TR is always going to be a problem for this team, not much about this battle suggested that it was going to be an issue this round. But, one turn of full paralysis later...
DJUG-WWWW-WWW7-GSWA

Since I would like to demonstrate that this team is not some fluke, here are a couple more Battle Videos of the Fight Club (Remix) in action:
- ECKW-WWWW-WWW7-GSXJ (Battle 86, one of those Legendary Trainers...draws no actual Legendaries. Also, an example of the annoying opposing Metagross)
- WGUW-WWWW-WWW7-GS24 (Battle 91, Bright Powder horseshit strikes, plus an excellent themed AI Multis partner drawn)
- C2WG-WWWW-WWW7-GS2T (Battle 101, the last win of the streak)

There are a few different directions I could take this from here. Josh C. has suggested that I lead with Entei/Phermosa, see if I can nab easy Beast Boosts for Phero and build off of that. I can also try other combinations of leads, see what pushes me past this point. I also have taken an interest in Relicanth's potential in the Tree, and have found a few QR teams that could be fun to try.

There is, however, one other idea that I'm toying around with...The Room is coming...

 

[Kialandi]

That's quite impressive, seeing as it was only created last November!

I get what you mean, though. Welcome to the Battle Whatever threads! While their titles may change, and viable movesets may change, the spirit remains the same, and the gameplay too because Game Freak are lazy with their postgame content!

Yeah that was probably bad wording on my part, haha, as you say I did mean the battle maison thread which I suppose is the spiritual predecessor for the tree.

I kinda like the concept of a battle facility based on streaks, there isn't really much to test the really skilled battlers in the main games, especially with them seeming to become easier (IMO) nevertheless Pokemon could probably do something more ( à la the Pokemon open-word BOTW style rpg that I think could work? I don't know)

 

[Skewtr]

Working on a little project in my free time:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...kIC2_O455vHMlj4CsNApOk5oU/edit#gid=1036580389

It's basically a Battle Tree opponents simulator. Using a random number generator, it will generate a list of possible Trainers to be battled for the first X battles. And from those Trainers, a team is randomly generated from each Trainer's possible set of Pokemon, fixed so that species and items remain unique. Every 10 battles, a special Trainer's team will be generated. Each time the spreadsheet recalculates, the sheet simulates Trainers for up to 600 battles (can add more but will increase calculation time).

The randomly generated list is on the 'Data' tab. Not all fields are intuitively useful, so I've shaded-out and hidden them. To use, copy the file into your own drive. This is still a work-in-progress, so not all the fields have been populated, and I'm very open to new ideas on how to make this tool useful.

If anyone has any ideas on the types of analysis that can be run with this (type weaknesses, Pokemon appearance frequency, stat tiers, etc) let me know.

 

[Jirachee]

Hey everyone, love the thread! I picked up Tree a couple of weeks ago after grinding Emerald for the longest time and this is what I got so far. Lost at Battle 134 earlier so I decided I'd post my team and stuff:

proof

team

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 31/x/30/31/31/31
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Destiny Bond

That set is really good at putting its user at an advantage from the very first turn. Because of how strong it is and its Speed, it will usually kill the opponent's lead and then it can use Destiny Bond to get a 2 for 1 trade, which is more than enough to win most games. Main reason why I wanted Gengar, other than Destiny Bond shenanigans, is that it's particularly good at deterring Fairy types which are annoying for Salamence.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
- Return
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost

There's a reason why so many people use Salamence. It's kind of boring but at the same time there's no real downside to using it. I opted for a more offensive approach than the usual SubDDer because I didn't really feel like taking the long set up route, and so this set seemed perfect for what I was trying to do. Earthquake has great coverage with Return and hits Electric types which can be slightly annoying because of how fast they are and the fact I don't have an Electric resist. Even without bulk, Salamence can take most hits with ease.

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 31/x/31/31/26/31
- Recover
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Toxic

Sort of a glue mon that covers a lot of things at once. I don't think Porygon2 is especially good but it does get the job done. Mine has suboptimal IVs but I didn't really feel like breeding more, so apologies for my own laziness. Thunderbolt is especially useful to hit things like Tentacruel1 or 3 that are immune to Poison and resist Ice Beam, but carry an Ice move that threatens Salamence.

battle videos

U47G-WWWW-WWW7-J84J - My loss. I played sloppily I think. I probably should have saved Gengar and went directly to Salamence to set up on Throh. The freeze was pretty annoying, but what can you do.
TVAG-WWWW-WWW7-J84R - Battle 120 against Cynthia. Salamence is way too powerful after a boost!
MV9G-WWWW-WWW7-J853 - I misclick early but Salamence makes up for my mistakes -_-

Hope to post some more (better) streaks!

 

[Hamber]

Hey everyone, new guy here and posting a current streak of 500 wins in super singles; also here to give thanks and credit to
iVolke for sharing his awesome team and to Lassi for inspiring me to use a team that doesn't involve intimidates and stalling
strategies (for the most part anyways, I'll explain in a bit). The team has awesome typing synergy that allows you to pivot
out of unfavorable match-ups (most of the time) and with the right play, battles end relatively quickly, usually by M-Scizor if he
can set up on the lead mon. After that he just sweeps the rest of the team barring fire types and fire type coverage moves (again,
most of the time). I made some tweaks to the team and the changes has served me well so far in the run. Here's the team:

Garchomp (F) ("Hilda") @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Same chomp as iVolke's. D-Drake nukes flying and levitate mons while not having to worry about half damage from misty
terrain by not being grounded. Sub to setup on passive mons by avoiding status and also useful for scouting sets especially
ones that may potentially carry Explosion or ohko moves. Outrage and Earthquake for dual stab to deal as much damage as
possible and with D-Drake not have to worry about confusion from Outrage, although for a one time usage only which can be
annoying if the opponent protects, but otherwise Garchomp's best move to counter mons she can't setup on. SD to setup and
take note usually only one SD is needed because at +2, Garchomp ohkos most mons in the tree even after using up her z move.
4 def allows Garchomp to set up 4 subs although there wasn't really a need to so far. I found Rough Skin extremely useful
for breaking focus sash and for chip damage in general.

Scizor-Mega (M) ("Iron Man") @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Brutal Swing
- Bullet Punch

I went for maximum HP and SpD investment since there are a lot of strong moves (both physical and special) in the tree that
M-Scizor has to tank; stuff like Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, Stone Edge, Earthquake, Explosion, Thunder, etc. especially since he
usually takes hits while in non Mega form via switch-in, and considering he's the only one in the team with access to recovery in
Roost. Max HP maximizes Roost recovery which is important because I consider potential crits to be M-Scizor's main weakness when
he's setting up especially against faster mons. He's also prone to potential stat drops from secondary effects of moves so it's crucial
M-Scizor doesn't spend too much turns setting up before koing a mon; meaning he doesn't have to set up to +6 every time, either
because he's facing an offensive mon or because of potential secondary effects and sometimes both. Thanks to Roost, he can often
times stall out those strong 5 pp moves and even 10 pp moves via pp max, giving Roost 16 pp in total and he can safely setup after
that. I forgot to mention attack boosting items like Choice Band/Specs and Life Orb that M-Scizor usually has to take care of. Bullet
Punch for Technician and stab boosted priority move which makes up for it being the slowest member of the team and just rips through
opponents at +6.

Now the main change is Brutal Swing over U-Turn (or Brick Break from Lassi's team). I went for Brutal Swing because of its great neutral
coverage while actually benefiting from technician boost (it has exactly 60 base power), giving it a total of 90 basepower. It also counters
bulky Ghost and Psychic types and in hindsight makes Scizor an anti-TR mon by countering Fairy, Psychic, and Ghost types; all of which are
known to be the types of all TR users, usually 2hkoing them at +2 while stalling out TR using SD. Brutal Swing also counters some offensive
threats, like ohkoing M-Alaka, Gengar, and guaranteeing at least 2hkos on all Azelf sets except Azelf-4 which is guaranteed ohko and oh yeah,
also has Fire Blast lol.


Tapu Fini ("Tapu Fini") @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spe / 252 SpA
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Confide

I didn't give her a nickname because Tapu Fini already sounds like a nickname to me. You might notice that I chose a (somewhat)
opposite version of iVolke's set item and nature for Fini, going with Choice Specs instead of Choice Scarf and Timid instead of Modest.
The main reason behind this is because I wanted a bulky Fini that can take hits, even super effective ones if she has to, and it is possible
with max HP investment. Choice Specs balances out the lack of SpA boosting nature and allows full HP investment since she doesn't care
about outspeeding everyone. I went for Timid because with Specs, she doesn't really need the extra power most of the time on the mons
she checks; I guess except for M-Garchomp which guarantees a ohko with Modest Fini but take note M-Garchomp outspeeds Modest Fini
so I'd rather take that 75% chance for ohko using a Timid set (252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp-
Mega: 204-242 (94.8 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO). A Timid set also outspeeds certain threats such as most Rotom sets and checks
stuff like all Excadrill sets, Incineroar-3, and as mentioned M-Garchomp. I also noticed that Modest Fini misses out on some important
guaranteed ohkos against legends such as Latios-3,4 and Latias-3. Choice Specs with Timid nature fixes this while still outspeeding a good
half of the battle tree.

If you guys want to try out this team for yourselves, Modest is also a viable option but just watch out for the threats that outspeed her.
Misty Surge for anti status and a mandatory switch in against ice moves targeted on Garchomp to avoid that 10% freeze chance on M-Scizor.
Moonblast and Surf as obligatory dual stab, Grass Knot hits bulky water types most notably 2hkoing all Suicune sets and ohking quadruple grass
weak mons such as Barbaracle, Carracosta, Gastrodon, and M-Swampert. The last moveslot is Confide instead of Ice Beam because of this one
battle against M-Audino lead around battle 230 where I nearly lost. The only reason I won was because of a SpA drop from spamming Moonblast
on M-Audino and because M-Audino decided to spam draining kiss after only 2 Calm Minds. Anymore than that and I probably would have lost.
I didn't save a video because I nearly had a heart attack after the battle and it was then I realized, the team wasn't exactly perfect and I had to
find a way to counter it (btw M-Audino has flamethrower so M-Scizor is a no-go). The answer was Confide in order to bring it down to -6 SpA
and sweep with Garchomp (Yep you heard that right, using Garchomp to setup and sweep against M-Audino). Tapu Fini is bulky enough to
run Confide and bring M-Audino down to -6 SpA without dying and the idea was, switch-in to Garchomp, setup one SD, then 2hko with EQ.
I have a video of it later and was literally the only battle during the whole streak so far that I was able to use Confide on the same M-Audino lead
which I encountered for the second time at battle 447. Take note this isn't full-proof because worst case scenario, M-Audino pulls of a double
crit on Garchomp, but that's way better than hoping for a crit and SpA drop on M-Audino from Moonblast spamming Fini lol.

Anyways, Ice Beam was the least used move with Fini, notably ohkoing quadruple ice weak mons such as Landorus, Gliscor, and dragon
pseudo-legends such as Salamence, Garchomp, and Dragonite, as well as countering legends such as Tornadus, Thundurus, and Zapdos.
It's not guaranteed ohko, unfortunately, and ideally Fini shouldn't even be facing the latter two. Moonblast already counters said dragon
pseudo-legends and Surf already ohkos all Gliscor sets and Landorus sets except Landorus-1 (252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Fini Surf vs. 0
HP / 252+ SpD Landorus: 156-186 (95.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO). There are a few other threats besides M-Audino that I
planned to use Confide on but I'll mention them later in the threat list (Yep, I'm also writing a threat list aside from a relatively long write up
for a first time poster lol. Pretty sure I'm mentioning stuff iVolke has already mentioned in his original post but I'd also like to share my experiences
and stuff I learned in the tree; considering a new guy posting a big streak, some may find it dubious at first, so I should at least sound like I know what
I'm talking about haha jk). Here's the threat list.


Threat List:

Audino-3 (Mega): No surprise and the first actual threat the team has faced during the run. Confide up to -6 and for some reason it stops using
Calm Mind after reaching +6 in SpD, which is nice. Switch to Garchomp and 2hko with +2 EQ.

Cofagrigus-3 and Jellicent-3: Both have Will-O-Wisp and TR. Switch to Fini and Confide up to -6 while stalling out TR. Don't mind the burn when Misty Terrain
runs out. Switch to M-Scizor the turn before TR runs out to avoid burn and hit with Brutal Swing because it seems the AI will prioritize TR over Will-O-Wisp.
Brutal Swing will do about half damage. Switch to Fini and spam Confide, this time only to stall out the second TR and for when Cofagrigus-3 starts spamming
Destiny Bond after being left with about half health. For Jellicent-3, Water Spout should run out of PP and would either spam Recover or switch out, which
is not so ideal but leaves Jellicent-3 pretty much harmless. Again, switch to M-Scizor the turn before TR runs out and finish off with Brutal Swing (watch out for Destiny Bond Cofagrigus-3 if it still has pp for it). Haven't actually gotten the chance to try it on them so I'm just theorymonning for these two.

Ohko moves and Lax Incense/Bright Powder mons: Not just a threat to this team but to all teams in general but that's also why Garchomp has D-Drake and Sub. Special mention to Dugtrio-2; being the fastest ohko move user in the tree. My approach is to D-Drake immediately to bypass Bright Powder miss and so far I've seen it use either Fissure or Sandstorm turn 1 so just hope it doesn't Sub lol.

Salazzle: Poison/Fire typing that immediately threatens two-thirds of the team especially with this non-Scarf Fini variant. Best play is to let Garchomp take
the Fake-out in order to break a potential sash from Salazzle-3. Finish of with EQ and if it's Salazzle-4, Garchomp has a 50% chance of moving first thanks to
their speed tie at 169 Spe. Take note Garchomp survives non crit Dragon Pulse from Salazzle-4 so it's important he stays healthy if this guy comes out.

Strong Attackers (Choice items/Life Orb): Best bet is to switch to M-Scizor and keep using Roost to stay healthy and stall out those 5 or 10 pp moves. SD plus
Roost combo is perfect against stuff that deals less than 50% max damage to M-Scizor and is slower than him. Against faster mons, M-Scizor would have to
take a hit on the switch and another hit before roosting up so it's important M-Scizor keeps his health up by using Roost often. An extreme example would be
Slaking-3 lead holding Choice Band. Turn 1, switch to M-Scizor on Giga Impact, which deals about 70-80% damage to its non Mega form, and then Roost. Slaking recharges while Roost heals up to 70% health at least and in Mega form, use Roost again. At this point, just hope it doesn't crit because M-Scizor survives non crit Giga Impact, dealing about 50-60% damage and that wouldn't be a good time for a crit when you're at 70% health lol. So basically watch out for crits when using M-Scizor.

TR teams: M-Scizor counters most of them so use SD to stall out TR.


Some Battle Videos:

Battle No. 200 vs. Plumeria: PRAG-WWWW-WWW7-C3ZM

Battle No. 300 vs. Cynthia: QZJG-WWWW-WWW7-G3B3

Battle No. 400 vs. Grimsley: DGAW-WWWW-WWW7-GL23

Battle No. 500 vs. Cynthia: BNCW-WWWW-WWW7-YURZ

Battle No. 447 vs. Scientist Tivon: C2UW-WWWW-WWW7-JA7H

- I was so excited that it actually worked that I totally forgot about the potential Sturdy Carbink and paid for it, sadly. M-Scizor cleans up and takes care of Bronzong.


Closing Notes:

Personally, I think that the special trainers you meet every ten battles is basically a free win for me due to how few, and therefore, how easily predictable
their sets are, especially against people like Wally, carrying only 4 mons with 2 sets each lol. I saved these battles videos because I consider them as
"benchmark wins" for every 100th battle after unlocking Starf berry at 200. Battle-wise, they aren't too special but the more interesting battles, I did mention
in the threat list and shows how to deal with them accordingly. I'll be taking a break for a while and maybe work on something for doubles. Again, I would like
to thank iVolke for sharing his awesome team and also I definitely recommend this team to everyone and see for themselves how good it really is and since you
guys made it this far, thanks for reading!

 

[turskain]

Nice streak and team, Hamber. Small optimization nitpick on Tapu Fini's nature and EV spread - since Speed is not invested, you could squeeze out a few more stat points by using a Modest nature to increase the highest stat (Special Attack) and invest EVs to hit the intended speed instead - f.ex. a spread of 252 HP / 148 SpA / 84 Spe with a Modest nature would result in identical stats to your current Timid Fini, with 24 surplus EVs that could be spent for 3-4 more stat points.

 

[Hamber]

Nice streak and team, Hamber. Small optimization nitpick on Tapu Fini's nature and EV spread - since Speed is not invested, you could squeeze out a few more stat points by using a Modest nature to increase the highest stat (Special Attack) and invest EVs to hit the intended speed instead - f.ex. a spread of 252 HP / 148 SpA / 84 Spe with a Modest nature would result in identical stats to your current Timid Fini, with 24 surplus EVs that could be spent for 3-4 more stat points.

Thanks turskain for pointing that out. Yes, that would be a more optimized set for the same spread. I was considering Modest Fini at first, but didn't think about optimizing the spread to hit a certain Spe tier instead of using Timid to outspeed those extra mons while uninvested. On the bright side, the team has nice and simple EV spreads (which I like haha) but at the cost of 3 stat pts. I guess the team could use some more fine tuning as such, and btw, it should be Roost, not SD, for stalling out TR with M-Scizor, sorry about that.

 

[PandaMan436]

Hey guys im kinda new to the whole battle tree thing but i was thinking of running a choice machamp something like this

Machamp@choice scarf
-D-Punch
-Ice Punch
-Bullet Punch
-Earthquake/Stone Edge

Now i want him to outspeed a majority of the leads in the battle tree but im confused on how to distribute the eves. I mean i want him to have some bulk so id obviously put some hp eves in there and 252 in attack but ive seen some sets where peopole randomly go like 160 speed eves or 96 speed eves, and i know this is to outspeed potential threats, say a guillotine kingler could be a problem. So Im asking for some help on the best way to distribute my eves and if my nature should be adamant or jolly thnx boys.

 

[AwesomeDave980]

Hey guys im kinda new to the whole battle tree thing but i was thinking of running a choice machamp something like this

Machamp@choice scarf
-D-Punch
-Ice Punch
-Bullet Punch
-Earthquake/Stone Edge

Now i want him to outspeed a majority of the leads in the battle tree but im confused on how to distribute the eves. I mean i want him to have some bulk so id obviously put some hp eves in there and 252 in attack but ive seen some sets where peopole randomly go like 160 speed eves or 96 speed eves, and i know this is to outspeed potential threats, say a guillotine kingler could be a problem. So Im asking for some help on the best way to distribute my eves and if my nature should be adamant or jolly thnx boys.

Hello Pandaman486! Personally, I wouldn't run choice scarf on Machamp because, even with a Jolly nature and max speed, it still can't outsoeed Pokemon with a base speed of 110 or higher (it can't outspeed Pokémon like Gengar, Latios, and Mega Metagross). If you want to use Machamp as a lead, I would use Focus Sash on it, use max attack and speed EVs, and use the moves Dynamicpunch, Bullet Punch, Knock Off, and probably Ice punch. Good luck in the battle tree!

 

[PandaMan436]

Thanks AwesomeDave, but what do you think about a bulky lead machamp say 252 hp 252 attack running adamant nature and completley disregard the possibility of it outspeeding the enemy lead. Only problem i see with this setup is if it takes a hit beyond 50% from the first poke and the second one knocks it out before it gets damage off then things would go bad, espically considering how a 1 for 1 in the tree is never really ideal

 

[PandaMan436]

Ok so i opted for stone edge over knock up because of the gyarados threat as well as the no guard which makes it never miss

 

[turskain]

Thanks AwesomeDave, but what do you think about a bulky lead machamp say 252 hp 252 attack running adamant nature and completley disregard the possibility of it outspeeding the enemy lead. Only problem i see with this setup is if it takes a hit beyond 50% from the first poke and the second one knocks it out before it gets damage off then things would go bad, espically considering how a 1 for 1 in the tree is never really ideal

Confusion got nerfed in SM to 1/3 chance to self-hit - I don't think No Guard Dynamic Punch would be particularly effective anymore. There's also substantial downsides to No Guard with the Tree foes carrying OHKO moves, and 70% accurate attacks such as Thunder and Magma Storm - you lose the opportunity to have the enemy's moves miss, which is a big price to pay for ignoring evasion/accuracy changes and making inaccurate moves reliable.

 

[PandaMan436]

Yea ive been thinking of swapping out machamp currently im running a yanmega

Yanmega@life orb
-Bug Buzz
-Air Slash
-U-Turn
-Shadow Ball

Ive been wondering is it worth to swap out SB for protect to counter a weavile lead because that would ensure the BB takes out weavile and to my knowledge there arent any sash sets?(correct me if im wrong) With yanmega and machamp i would see 2 main problems: gyarados and flying types in general so im wondering what type of pokemon i can use to counter a flying type. Also i havent stated this previously but im trying to keep my team 4th gen below just for fun so do you guys have any idea on pokes 4th gen below that can handle flying types with ease.

Forgot to mention my yanmega is running modest with 252 SpA and 252 Spd so i dont think its going to be outspeeding weavile without the +1

Also quick question about no guard - does it only stay active while machamp is on the field or does it persist on the enemy even after machamp has fainted

MOD EDIT: Posts merged. Please edit your post instead of making a new one if you have more to say immediately after posting.

 

[paperquagsire]

Forgot to mention my yanmega is running modest with 252 SpA and 252 Spd so i dont think its going to be outspeeding weavile without the +1

U-turn isn't very good in the tree, I'd run protect so you always get the boost. Even then Yanmega isn't great, but I'd love to see if you can make it work!

Edit: also, don't wanna be rude, but try not to multipost so much, thanks!

 

[Worldie]

No Guard only affects Machamp himself: Other pokemon (in your team, or enemy not targetting Machamp) will not get any effect from it.

 

[PandaMan436]

Someone care to give me a good bulky metagross set and a good speedy metagross set for the tree? Im not too familiar with the pokemon

 

[CTNC]

I just lost in Singles with 89 Battles. I'm not submitting proof because the loss was embarrassing and I don't want to get onto the Records List with anything under one hundred, especially something that lands me in last place. I'm just posting this here now for advice because I know I can do better with my strategy. If you're going to give me constructive criticism, thanks in advance. If you're looking for teams to steal, go nuts, but please give me credit for the idea.

My team

-->

Blaziken ("KFKA" short for "Kentucky Fried Kick-Ass") @ Blazikenite
Ability: Blaze --> Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Low Kick
- Protect
- Baton Pass

This is my lead and he usually lives up to his name. If he isn't living up to his name, he's using Baton Pass. Unless I can OHKO a slower opponent, I use Protect on the first turn for the Speed Boost. If the Match up is bad or they used a Ground Type Move, I Baton Pass to a better match up or something that gain a Free KO with the Free Baton Pass. I chose Flare Blitz as the Main Stab for reliability and Low Kick as a secondary Stab for being reliable enough. Most things hit by Low Kick are ether OHKOed or not threatening enough for to mind that it takes two hits. Protect is needed for Speed Boosts and Baton Pass is needed to abuse those Speed Boosts, so there isn't the luxury of having coverage moves. Based on my experience, everything that outspeeds +1 Speed Adamant Mega Blaziken is scarfed and outspeeds +1 Jolly, so I went with an Adamant nature for the Attack boost. Overkill speed does nothing, but overkill Attack gains extra kills.

The obvious change I could make is replacing my Shiny Mega Blaziken with a Non-Mega Non-Shiny one, but that's not happening. If I can use a Shiny that I got by pure luck, I will use it.

Salamence (Needs a Nickname) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fly
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

This guy is fun. Bring him on something he KOs, and enjoy the free Victory Dances. (I assume his ability works by Dancing. How else would a dragon get Attack Boosts?) Just one of Blaziken's Speed Boosts is enough to let a Snowball effect happen. Anything that isn't OHKOed is ether 2HKOed or can't do anything back. The Stabs have amazing Neutral Coverage and we all know how good Earthquake is as a coverage move. Dragon Dance is there in case he doesn't get one of Blaziken's Speed Boost's or if an annoying defensive Pokemon is using Protect every other turn. Supersonic Skystrike is really useful when you need some extra power for a KO, you really don't want to risk Fly's 95% Accuracy, or you want to finish off your opponent off with overkill. Adamant is also the nature of choice for the same reason Adamant is used for Blaziken.

Celestella (Apollo) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
- Autotomize

Celestella is nowhere near as strong as Salamence, but her coverage and typing are useful for dealing with treats Blaziken and Salamence can't deal with. She also has a Special version of Moxie and doesn't care if she gets an Intimidate debuff from Baton Pass. Unfortunately, she needs at least +2 Speed to out speed anything with more than Base 100 speed, so Autotomize is used a lot more often than Salamence's Dragon Dance. If you're thinking this may make a Timid nature seem like it's worth considering, it's not. It's only enough to make it so she can outrun Base 105 Speed Pokemon at +1 Speed. Timid sucks. Modest is the only good Nature. The reason the Life Orb is on Celestella instead of Salamence is the even after a KO, she needs extra power.


Thanks for checking out my team and please let me know what you think of it.


Edit: Lost another streak with 8 Wins. Got owned by a Cotton Guard Altaria. Celestella couldn't deal with it and Salamence was 2HKOed. I think I need to replace Celestella...

 

[PandaMan436]

Don't have much to look over your team rn so ill make edits to this post later but just from a glance consider aerial ace over fly if ur REALLY looking for a flying type move on salamence(although even that i dont recommend) because it can prevent double team stall. Also if ur dont want a baton pass minus stats in close combat and superpower then just run brick break on blaziken.

 

[Darth_Scorpion]

I just lost in Singles with 89 Battles. I'm not submitting proof because the loss was embarrassing and I don't want to get onto the Records List with anything under one hundred, especially something that lands me in last place. I'm just posting this here now for advice because I know I can do better with my strategy. If you're going to give me constructive criticism, thanks in advance. If you're looking for teams to steal, go nuts, but please give me credit for the idea.

My team

-->

Blaziken ("KFKA" short for "Kentucky Fried Kick-Ass") @ Blazikenite
Ability: Blaze --> Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Low Kick
- Protect
- Baton Pass

This is my lead and he usually lives up to his name. If he isn't living up to his name, he's using Baton Pass. Unless I can OHKO a slower opponent, I use Protect on the first turn for the Speed Boost. If the Match up is bad or they used a Ground Type Move, I Baton Pass to a better match up or something that gain a Free KO with the Free Baton Pass. I chose Flare Blitz as the Main Stab for reliability and Low Kick as a secondary Stab for being reliable enough. Most things hit by Low Kick are ether OHKOed or not threatening enough for to mind that it takes two hits. Protect is needed for Speed Boosts and Baton Pass is needed to abuse those Speed Boosts, so there isn't the luxury of having coverage moves. Based on my experience, everything that outspeeds +1 Speed Adamant Mega Blaziken is scarfed and outspeeds +1 Jolly, so I went with an Adamant nature for the Attack boost. Overkill speed does nothing, but overkill Attack gains extra kills.

The obvious change I could make is replacing my Shiny Mega Blaziken with a Non-Mega Non-Shiny one, but that's not happening. If I can use a Shiny that I got by pure luck, I will use it.

Salamence (Needs a Nickname) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fly
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

This guy is fun. Bring him on something he KOs, and enjoy the free Victory Dances. (I assume his ability works by Dancing. How else would a dragon get Attack Boosts?) Just one of Blaziken's Speed Boosts is enough to let a Snowball effect happen. Anything that isn't OHKOed is ether 2HKOed or can't do anything back. The Stabs have amazing Neutral Coverage and we all know how good Earthquake is as a coverage move. Dragon Dance is there in case he doesn't get one of Blaziken's Speed Boost's or if an annoying defensive Pokemon is using Protect every other turn. Supersonic Skystrike is really useful when you need some extra power for a KO, you really don't want to risk Fly's 95% Accuracy, or you want to finish off your opponent off with overkill. Adamant is also the nature of choice for the same reason Adamant is used for Blaziken.

Celestella (Apollo) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
- Autotomize

Celestella is nowhere near as strong as Salamence, but her coverage and typing are useful for dealing with treats Blaziken and Salamence can't deal with. She also has a Special version of Moxie and doesn't care if she gets an Intimidate debuff from Baton Pass. Unfortunately, she needs at least +2 Speed to out speed anything with more than Base 100 speed, so Autotomize is used a lot more often than Salamence's Dragon Dance. If you're thinking this may make a Timid nature seem like it's worth considering, it's not. It's only enough to make it so she can outrun Base 105 Speed Pokemon at +1 Speed. Timid sucks. Modest is the only good Nature. The reason the Life Orb is on Celestella instead of Salamence is the even after a KO, she needs extra power.


Thanks for checking out my team and please let me know what you think of it.

Two simple changes that could help:
*Switch your current Blaziken for one with its Hidden Ability of Speed Boost. I know you'd rather keep your shiny, but you're having to use a mega-stone on a frail lead just for the ability - the switch could let you use a different item (Z-crystal or Focus Sash).
*Switch your Salamence for one with intimidate - its more useful than moxie. If you make the above change, you can give Salamence it's mega-stone which means you can aerilate-return as a reliable flying STAB (or even Double-edge). You can also baton-pass a speed boost...

Hope that helps

 

[guan123]

What are the best partners for truant durant? Does that strategy still work in singles?
The main obstacles to Truant Durant seem to be leads which cannot have their abilities swapped (Wishiwashi, Aegislash, Mimikyu, Minior, etc.), Prankster Taunt, Roar/Whirlwind leads, and Protect leads (protecting on the entrainment turn).

That being said, I think Mega Gyarados is a good partner for Truant Durant due to mold breaker bypassing sturdy and good STAB. Anyone else have other ideas for supporting truant durant (Preferably from someone who got an over 50 streak with it).
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Crunch
- Protect
- Dragon Dance

 

[PandaMan436]

To deal with roar and whirlwind leads i suggest instead of simply protecting u can instead try to put them to sleep. Mainly with truant the use of yawn is a 100% accuracy and most of the time a guarenteed sleep so u could try something like this:

Kingdra@Lum Berry(place holder item)
Jolly Nature
Yawn
Sub/Protect
Outrage/Waterall(if your afraid of faries)
D-Dance
240 HP 252 Attack 16 Speed

This setup will break the speed barrier with almost any dragon type thanks to kingdras decent speed. This also gives u 2 safe switch ins to fire types which the AI is more likely to bring against lead durant.

 

[Worldie]

For guan123, Truant Durant is actually present in the highest success comps for b-tree singles. I'd really recommend giving a read to the analysis
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-tree-discussion-and-records.3587215/page-76#post-7293831
and
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-tree-discussion-and-records.3587215/page-64#post-7232152


As you can see it's played with a stalling setup in order to maximize the possibility of setting up with the two sweepers abusing Truant downtime.
The two sweepers are equipped with ways to deal with immune-to-entrainment pokemon, expecially a dreaded Darmanitan which can threaten Truant with a 1-2hko.

As for PandaMan, I'm afraid it's not realistic to run a setup sweeper with only 1 attack. It's doomed to eventually lose to RNG and having against a comp that has multiple resist or immunities.

 

[CTNC]

Two simple changes that could help:
*Switch your current Blaziken for one with its Hidden Ability of Speed Boost. I know you'd rather keep your shiny, but you're having to use a mega-stone on a frail lead just for the ability - the switch could let you use a different item (Z-crystal or Focus Sash).
*Switch your Salamence for one with intimidate - its more useful than moxie. If you make the above change, you can give Salamence it's mega-stone which means you can aerilate-return as a reliable flying STAB (or even Double-edge). You can also baton-pass a speed boost...

Hope that helps

Blaziken Idea: But I don't want to... :( I'll do this if I feel like I have to.

Salamence Ideas: Fly's 95% Accuracy is annoying, but I rarely have to use it, so I'm okay with that. Using Mega-Salamence isn't a bad idea, but that feels like replacing a Very Powerful Pokemon (Moxie Mence) with a Broken Mega. Why would I do that when I can replace a Less Powerful Pokemon (Celestella) with a different Broken Mega? The questions are which one and does it work with the team better than Celestella?

 

[Worldie]

If you want to rely on Moxie/BeastBoost pokemon while keeping your M-Blaziken, there's probably better options than Salamence. Another UB, Kartana for example, will get a insanely good speedtier from a batonpassed Speed Boost, and already rocks an astronomically high attack with *way* better coverage and stab than M-Blazi, can run Focus Sash or Z-crystal, though sharing Fire weakness with Celesteela in this case.

Unfortunately all Moxie users outside of Krookodile double either into electric or fire weakness with Celesteela, though, but all sport better moveset and coverage than non-megaSalamence (Gyarados, Honchkrow).

It's also worth mentioning the existance of Ash-Greninja which does have a valid phisical and special moveset, access to priority AND a pseudo-moxie which features giving it a great unboosted speed tier without needing to setup, and also covering all Blaziken weaknesses with stabs or coverage.

Another idea would be running Weakness policy Dragonite, which is virtually non 1hittable outside of mold breakers, can run Dragon Dance and has also very good coverage on its own (I've been doing some attempts with Dragon Claw, Waterfall, Thunder Punch, D-dance version myself in doubles).

Strictly related to your Salamence... having to rely on non 100% moves *will* inevitably at some point bite you back when talking about B-tree where there's no "rematch" for a unlucky miss. Might even just want to forgo flying stab completely for something more efficent if you plan on keeping Salamence. If you want to keep the Z-move, Z-outrage and Z-Draco meteor have ridicolous damage output, as well.