BH BH Central Resources Thread

[Polkot]

I've been playing bh forever, and i was just wondering if there were any plans for a setpedia to be made? i know it's in the original post, but it's said coming soon since the start of gen8. i feel like the implementation of accessible and viable sets would be a lot more inviting to new players instead of them having to just grab a sample team that anyone can find, copy the sets, and then play accordingly. usually having those sets available is the next step for newer players to grow in the tier, as it allows them to start making their own teams, without having to constantly ask in chat or dig through replays just to find viable sets. even if we have the smogondex, having them all in 1 easy-to-maneuver sheet could do wonders for letting the meta grow.

 

[a loser]

i was just wondering if there were any plans for a setpedia to be made?

Yes, a setpedia has been in the works and should be ready for sharing in not too long.

I'd also like to remind everyone to get their nominations in soon, because we're wanting to update the VR to reflect the post DLC meta.

 

[Champion Leon]

Yes, a setpedia has been in the works and should be ready for sharing in not too long.

I'd also like to remind everyone to get their nominations in soon, because we're wanting to update the VR to reflect the post DLC meta.

I would like to suggest a rise to Kyurem-B.

2 new DLC moves gave it additional STAB options:

Triple Axel, and Scale Shot, Triple Axel works well on a Technician set, and Scale Shot works on a Skill Link set.

With Bonemerang, or Bone Rush working off the respective ability, I sense it can truly empower it to new heights, as B+ Pokemon.

Kyurem-B @ Wide Lens
Ability: Intrepid Sword / Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Triple Axel
- Bonemerang
- Shift Gear
- Bolt Strike / Bolt Beak

Technician offers less issues with Imposterproofing, while Intrepid Sword boosts Bolt Strike.

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Scale Shot
- Bone Rush
- Swords Dance
- Bolt Strike / Bolt Beak

With STAB Scale Shot damaging at 125 base power while boosting Speed, Kyurem-Black can opt for Swords Dance, over Shift Gear, and sweep.

These are just examples, I would just focus on the fact it has more options for powerful attacks, without reliance on Refrigerate, so it can boost its other coverage attacks.

 

[Champion Leon]

Since all of the BH analysis are out on hold, let’s try and put together the setpedia. We still have over 3 months until mid-November, the likely DLC date, so it would be worth it to get started.

Also, I know we can input some sets that won’t make it into the analysis, or are in the process but due to the DLC delay might be forgotten until the analysis are Re-opened.

I would like to start with the Kyurem-B sets I listed above, as they were well received and showcase the unique STAB and effects Kyurem-B brings to the table, as it is likely the best user of Skill Link in all of BH, and thus Scale Shot, for STAB and Speed. Skill Link rarely boost a Pokemon with 2 useful STABs, letting you choose between Icicle Spear, or Scale Shot, off high Atk.

I know in the past I promoted Multi-Attack + Ice Memory, but I think with Triple Axel and Wide Lens making it 99% accurate, Daramnitan-G-Z can opt for Intrepid Sword with less fear of Trick / Knock Off. Multi-Attack still has a niche for being easier to Improof, but now, it can run additional imperfect accuracy moves, like the ever-present V-Create at perfect accuracy now.

Technician sets running Triple Axel can also benefit from Wide Lens for Bonemerang, Storm Throw, Frost Breathe, etc., as they all have 90% accuracy, making them 99% after the boost.

 

[a loser]

After a bit of a delay, the council has decided on an updated VR! Click here for the voting sheet to see our thoughts on each mon. Feel free to share your thoughts on the new rankings!
Rises
Zamazenta-Crowned A+ → S

Zama-C is very easy to fit on teams and plays a wide range of defensive and offensive roles.​

Zekrom A+ → S

It has great STABs and offers amazing utility with both offensive and defensive sets.​

Lunala B+ → A-
Excadrill B- → B

Drops
Reshiram A+ → A

Unlike Zekrom, Imposter Chansey's presence makes Reshiram's sets a little harder to use.​

Kyurem-Black B → B-
Melmetal A- → B+
Eternatus S → A+

While still a tough mon to break, it now has to deal with bulky Imposter and it is held back by compressing multiple roles at times.​

Wobbuffet A → UR
Aegislash C → UR

When you look at Aegislash's nerfed stats and see how much damage it takes from neutral hits and combine it with the fact that it is super passive and Imposter bait, there is almost no reason to use it.​

Additions
Chansey UR → S

Imposter Chansey is something you simply have to prepare for in the teambuiler.​

Blissey UR → S

While not quite as good as Chansey, still very similar and something you have to prepare for before every battle.​

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike UR → D
Urshifu-Single-Strike UR → B-

Urshifu is making a name for itself as a very reliable spinner with Poison Heal sets.​

Tangrowth UR → D
Magearna UR → B
Slowbro UR → D

Notable "No Change"
Barraskewda stays B
Incineroar stays C

Its defensive sets provide great utility, but is limited by Imposter's presence outside of potentially removing its Eviolite.​

Primarina stays C
Umbreon stays C
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen stays A+

Zarude stays UR
Marowak-Alola stays UR
Marowak stays UR

 

[Bean Man]

Drops
Melmetal A- → B+

Idk about this man. Melmetal is a really tanky mon physically, which, surprise, are most of the big threats in the meta game.

Primordial Sea can hard counter DGZ, even if it has EQ you can stall out the turns with Recover as long as you don't switch directly into one. So tell me nullifying 4/5 of DGZ's best moves isnt useful. (Including Solar Blade cause it A. Can ruin a DesLand set and B. Resists it)

Now let's talk Zekrom. Instead of just saying let's show same calcs against Fur Coat Melmetal

Max damage each time:

+5 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Melmetal: 331-390 (69.8 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Min damage each time:

+6 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Melmetal: 378-445 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That isnt including WoW which would probably kill it with 1 less attack boost or Melmetal using Cotton Guard which could easily be done if they're setting up.

But where's all that setup time come from? Must have taken a while, it would be a shame if say, a prankster Melmetal, trapped you and used topsy turvy on you because you went for a WoW suspecting it would be the previous fur coat set and kept using taunt to prevent you from regaining your stats?

Pranked

-1 252+ Atk Zekrom Bolt Beak (85 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 64-76 (13.5 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO

Yikes.

Now Zamazenta. I would do Zamazenta-Crowned but nobody uses it

Kinda Pranked

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 218-260 (45.9 - 54.8%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO

Coat of Fur

+1 252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Melmetal: 248-294 (52.3 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Actually not too bad, but I mean, it's not gonna be hard to read. And even then just protect if you really aren't sure then just switch to a Lunala or something and punish them.

In conclusion, why don't you topsy turvy that ranking and make it go up to A or A+. Melmetal is really good and shouldn't be underrated as a tank. It might not be as good as Chansey and Blissey, but you actually have to guess what it's running and plan for more than your own team.

 

[thepokemonmasterrrr]

Nominating Blissey to A- rank. It only has a niche on double imposter teams because this mon is awful compared to chansey. If you're running scarf and only 1 imposter chansey is so much better, the 1.4% extra bulk is way worse than making your opponent guess if you're running eviolite. A mon that is completely outclassed and only ran because of forme clause does not belong in S.

 

[a loser]

Idk about this man. Melmetal is a really tanky mon physically, which, surprise, are most of the big threats in the meta game.

Yes, Melmetal is a great physical tank and I don't believe it is a mon that should be discounted. I'm not sure if you were around at the start of Gen 8, but Melmetal was once S Rank in the Viability Rankings and was seen on pretty much every team. This was largely in part to Zacian-Crowned being unrestricted from any ability or item and Melmetal's defensive stats made it and other Steel-types like Zamazenta-Crowned almost mandatory to use.

Since these early times, Zacian-C has been restricted and is more manageable to deal with, which gave room for other offensive mons to make impact like DGZ, Zekrom, Reshiram, and Mewtwo. Each of these mons have different ways they can punish Melmetal, especially Resh and Mewtwo since they can take advantage of its poor special bulk. Certain Melmetal sets can matchup well against certain DGZ or Zekrom sets, but the contrary is also true so Melmetal can't be counted on as a blanket check for these mons.

Long story short and without throwing calcs at you, Melmetal is still good bulky mon but the meta has done a good job of adapting to its standard sets. I agree it shouldn't be underrated and we aren't saying the mon is bad, but for the time being it is not the top-tier threat it once was.

Now Zamazenta. I would do Zamazenta-Crowned but nobody uses it

Since you brought it up, another reason for Melmetal's drop is Zama-C's rise. You mention that no one uses it, yet it just rose to S Rank due to its amazing utility, both offensive and defensive, and its ability to play multiple roles on various teams. Compared to Melmetal, its special bulk makes it much more difficult to take advantage of and allows it to serve as a physical and/or special tank.

Nominating Blissey to A- rank

Blissey is an interesting mon, for sure. If you looked at the voting sheet I provided, you can tell the council was hesitant on putting Blissey at S Rank as well. But as it stands, Imposter is in a great place right now and Blissey is nothing to scoff at, especially since it can pack things like Shed Shell instead of the standard Scarf to be less predictable. I don't exactly know where it belongs on the VR but it is clear that it is the inferior Imposter. Also the bulk difference is 1.98% but that is beside the point.

 

[Chessking345]

The Gen 8 BH Setpedia has been finalized and available for viewing! This document consists of most of the viable sets for every mon on the Viability Rankings, and more sets and mons will be added (and deleted) depending on meta changes. Note that the Setpedia is by no means a full compilation of all possible sets for each mon and there can very possibly be innovation for these mons. In addition we will refrain from adding gimmicky sets or extremely niche sets. There may also be outdated sets/movesets that are present that have not been pruned yet. It will also be linked on the first page.

 

[a loser]

Lunala @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- No Retreat
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Stored Power

Judgment does not exist in Gen 8 BH, so this set does not have a place in the meta and is misleading to new players. Please do not edit this set to be Ghost Multi-Attack instead because not only would that set not be very good, but is untested in the meta and wouldn't be ideal for the Setpedia.

I saw that you have included other Belly Drum sets like Unburden Urshifu-Single-Strike, which has limitations as a 1x Unburden User

There is only one Belly Drum set on the Setpedia right now and I decided to include this Urshifu set since I'd seen it on the ladder a few times. I understand that you have come up with a couple ways to use Belly Drum multiple times, and that's great, but the move really isn't that easy to use in practice and is in a worse spot this gen because of Dynamax. Most Belly Drum sets are one time usage because the goal of them is to end the game after one drum anyway.

This is also the third time that you've posted your Belly Drum Marshadow set in the Gen 8 BH threads, so I think at this point it is burned into all of our brains.

Just remember, as Chessking already pointed out, the Setpedia is not the be-all and end-all resource for Balanced Hackmons sets. It will never be a final product since the meta is always changing and new innovations happen often. The ladder thread is another good place to check up on sets and ideas being used in the meta that might not be reflected in the Setpedia yet.

 

[Champion Leon]

Judgment does not exist in Gen 8 BH, so this set does not have a place in the meta and is misleading to new players. Please do not edit this set to be Ghost Multi-Attack instead because not only would that set not be very good, but is untested in the meta and wouldn't be ideal for the Setpedia.

There is only one Belly Drum set on the Setpedia right now and I decided to include this Urshifu set since I'd seen it on the ladder a few times. I understand that you have come up with a couple ways to use Belly Drum multiple times, and that's great, but the move really isn't that easy to use in practice and is in a worse spot this gen because of Dynamax. Most Belly Drum sets are one time usage because the goal of them is to end the game after one drum anyway.

This is also at least the fifth time in two months that you've posted your Belly Drum Marshadow set across the Gen 8 BH and NatDex BH threads, so I think at this point it is burned into all of our brains.

Just remember, as Chessking already pointed out, the Setpedia is not the be-all and end-all resource for Balanced Hackmons sets. It will never be a final product since the meta is always changing and new innovations happen often. The ladder thread is another good place to check up on sets and ideas being used in the meta that might not be reflected in the Setpedia yet.

I 100% agree and removed the post:

The Gen 8 BH Setpedia has been finalized and available for viewing! This document consists of most of the viable sets for every mon on the Viability Rankings, and more sets and mons will be added (and deleted) depending on meta changes. Note that the Setpedia is by no means a full compilation of all possible sets for each mon and there can very possibly be innovation for these mons. In addition we will refrain from adding gimmicky sets or extremely niche sets. There may also be outdated sets/movesets that are present that have not been pruned yet. It will also be linked on the first page.

—————
Written here since not everyone will catch my edits:



Since Imposter cannot Dynamax on Zamazenta-Crowned, I asked a loser on this before posting, and he agreed that Zamazenta-Crowned can run an effective Unburden set:

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Wicked Blow
- Close Combat
- Sunsteel Strike

1HKO Imposter to prove it it is fool-proof-



+6 252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite : 696-822 (99 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Sunsteel Strike KOs Fur Coat / Unaware mons:

+6 252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eternatus: 534-628 (110.3 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 390-460 (98.9 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

——————



Niche: Combining the best of both the ISword and MGuard sets - Risk-free U-Turn pivoting, reliable damage without fear of Stealth Rocks, the power that MGuard LOrb sets lack.

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- V-Create
- Triple Axel
- U-Turn / Close Combat / Swords Dance

Immunity to Sticky Web, a niche that Magic Guard sets don’t have, is arguably just as important as immunity to other hazards, since it cannot effectively sweep without its Speed tier.

Most people expect Choice Band on Intrepid Sword sets, so the surprise of Heavy-Duty Boots enables it the flexibility to choose moves, maintain its Speed in the face of Sticky Web, and use the best offensive ability, all while allowing it to U-Turn pivot consistently, and without the fear of Stealth Rock. This unique combination all provide it key niches over its other sets.

——————



Niche: Easier Improof

Darmanitan-Galar-Zen @ Ice Memory
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- V-Create
- Bolt Beak
- Swords Dance / Close Combat / Fishous Rend

By using something like Flash Fire Steelix for Swords Dance sets, or Fur Coat Eternatus for Close Combat / Fishous Rend sets, this set is easily Improofed, while still maxing it’s potential.

Tough Claws doesn’t give away what ability it is using, and enables real potential, letting them believe you could be Magic Guard Life Orb, only to find out you are Multi-Attack Tough Claws packing the same power level, without the accuracy hick-ups of Triple Axel.

Multi-Attack is a great niche for Improofing especially since Eternatus w/ Fur Coat is a great set in its own right, allowing you to put this on a team easily.

 

[Badger]

I know I might sound a little crazy for even CONSIDERING to bring this up, but I've got an opinion that might be wrong in a lot of people's eyes.

I think that Zacian-C should be moved down from S rank to A+ or even A rank.

Hear me out. The ability to run all stats with Max EVs, Zacian tends not to OHKO a lot of common mons, even ones that aren't super bulky and are weak to one of it's moves. For instance, Dragapult lives a Play Rough, even with Zacian being at +1. Which brings me to my next point. Knowing the ability and the item of your opponents Pokemon is exceedingly important in BH. It just so happens that your opponent knows both of those as soon as they see a Zacian-C on your team. This mon is more 1 dimensional than mons like Chansey or Blissey, and that's not a thing that you see from almost any other S rank mon. I don't think it's super easy to fit onto any team as a result.

Yeah, I know that it's still hard to switch into a Zacian, but that's why it's still A or A+ rank. However, I don't see it being better than Darm-G-Zen or Eternatus due to the lack of versatility. Let me know what you think, I know it's kinda sus. I've just been laddering for a little bit, and my Zacian seldom does anything except for maybe get a revenge kill every other game or so.



Edit: I used Play Rough on a Dragapult and it lived, even though it had normalize. I'm not sure how. That's where I got my "calc" from, something's up.

 

[a loser]

Not sure what calculation you were using to get this.

For instance, Dragapult lives a Play Rough, even with Zacian being at +1

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dragapult: 510-602 (134.2 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zacian-C is not easy to deal with and has a huge impact on teambuilding despite being limited to one item, one ability, and a semi-predictable pool of moves. Thanks to its insane base stats, it is the fastest and most powerful attacker in the meta. All-out-attacker sets running STAB moves and coverage like Bolt Beak, V-create, Fishious Rend, or Earthquake OHKO or 2HKO pretty much every relevant mon in the meta. This doesn't get into other sets that offer more utility like hazards, Strength Sap, Taunt, or pivoting with U-turn or Baton Pass.

Zacian-C is one of those mons that if you don't prep for it in the builder, it will undoubtedly cause you a ton of trouble. You can't just slap on Fur Coat either because Sunsteel 2HKOes Eternatus and even things like Melmetal are 2HKOed after minor chip damage. Imposter is probably the biggest drawback for Zacian-C because it comes in at +2 and with massive bulk, but improofing based on coverage chosen is usually reliable enough and Imposter can't repeatedly switch in on boosted attacks without healing up in the meantime.

So yeah, Zacian-C is pretty tied down in terms of what it can run, but I still think it is one of the more versatile mons in the meta and it is most definitely one you have to prepare for. I see no reason currently why it should drop from S Rank.
. . . . . . . .

While I'm here, I'll make some noms of my own.
Zacian B to B-/C+

Zacian's most popular set, Primordial Sea with Fishious Rend, has not enjoyed Imposter Chansey's presence in the meta. I don't find this mon easy to use or easy to fit onto teams lately.​

Blissey S to A+

I mentioned my feelings toward Blissey a couple posts ago, but I think Blissey deserves a drop. Chansey is the premier Imposter thanks to Eviolite and its ability to bluff its held item better. Blissey is still a really good mon but I think some differentiation is needed in the rankings since Chansey is, in my opinion, clearly better at the job.​

The only other thing that stands out to me on the VR is the entire D Rank. That group of mons is pretty tough to look at, but I have to say D Rank is the right spot for them if they have a spot at all. Perhaps some of them should be purged from the list, though, like maybe Corviknight or Lapras? Hard to say though, since they have their niches.

 

[cityscapes]

Not sure what calculation you were using to get this.

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dragapult: 510-602 (134.2 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zacian-C is not easy to deal with and has a huge impact on teambuilding despite being limited to one item, one ability, and a semi-predictable pool of moves. Thanks to its insane base stats, it is the fastest and most powerful attacker in the meta. All-out-attacker sets running STAB moves and coverage like Bolt Beak, V-create, Fishious Rend, or Earthquake OHKO or 2HKO pretty much every relevant mon in the meta. This doesn't get into other sets that offer more utility like hazards, Strength Sap, Taunt, or pivoting with U-turn or Baton Pass.

Zacian-C is one of those mons that if you don't prep for it in the builder, it will undoubtedly cause you a ton of trouble. You can't just slap on Fur Coat either because Sunsteel 2HKOes Eternatus and even things like Melmetal are 2HKOed after minor chip damage. Imposter is probably the biggest drawback for Zacian-C because it comes in at +2 and with massive bulk, but improofing based on coverage chosen is usually reliable enough and Imposter can't repeatedly switch in on boosted attacks without healing up in the meantime.

So yeah, Zacian-C is pretty tied down in terms of what it can run, but I still think it is one of the more versatile mons in the meta and it is most definitely one you have to prepare for. I see no reason currently why it should drop from S Rank.
. . . . . . . .

While I'm here, I'll make some noms of my own.
Zacian B to B-/C+

Zacian's most popular set, Primordial Sea with Fishious Rend, has not enjoyed Imposter Chansey's presence in the meta. I don't find this mon easy to use or easy to fit onto teams lately.​

Blissey S to A+

I mentioned my feelings toward Blissey a couple posts ago, but I think Blissey deserves a drop. Chansey is the premier Imposter thanks to Eviolite and its ability to bluff its held item better. Blissey is still a really good mon but I think some differentiation is needed in the rankings since Chansey is, in my opinion, clearly better at the job.​

The only other thing that stands out to me on the VR is the entire D Rank. That group of mons is pretty tough to look at, but I have to say D Rank is the right spot for them if they have a spot at all. Perhaps some of them should be purged from the list, though, like maybe Corviknight or Lapras? Hard to say though, since they have their niches.

disagree, zacian c is imo much, much harder to use now

first of all you gotta cover imposter, i mean really cover it. if youre not running vcreate you need something nonpassive and you simply lack options in this area. for example imposter proofing with a ph mon isn't gonna work unless youre running ph darm + poor zac set which is not workable. imposter proofing with bounce sounds pretty decent cause you can run it on like steels and etern, but zac really doesn't have enough field presence and consistency as a wallbreaker to justify hazards, especially on a mon that wants to run like 8 moves (plus to run bounce steels/etern you must give up eq). this typically leaves you with fur coat as the improof, and fur coat sucks cause bolt/rend/darm can always get around it.

also, it's really hard to find a set that can find consistent progress. zacc would be a million times better if you could actually status the counters, but this simply is not a feasible option (burn is less significant when it works, autoloses if bounce, and fails vs ff/resh/darm, poison doesn't work on steels/etern) so zacc ends up being super reliant on teammates to actually chip down the things that stop its progression. there's just such a large variety of zacc counterplay that is simply impossible to stop with a single set. doesn't help that most of the fc mons can be either passive (spectral, status) or nonpassive (lo coverage etern, fc grounds) so that makes those much harder to exploit as well. you want play rough, taunt, eq, recovery that doesnt lose to imposter, vcreate/pyro ball (?), wicked blow/knock, sub, nuzzle/status, leaf storm/knot, and many others. each move serves only a single purpose and zacc needs a lot of purposes filled (for instance it almost feels like it needs aromatherapy support, which no other mon really does).

one more thing, the pacing of games has def shifted after the introduction of imposter chans that makes zacc feel almost obsolete. games are less about "ok i kill this then zacc comes in to revenge me". no dude you dont kill this, imposter is in the back and he can just switch in on your wallbreaker. games are much more about controlling the game using field presence/hazards and poison heal, and something as fragile as zac feels useless outside of the endgame. against good teams this pokemon typically contributes next to nothing initially, then later on it either cleans up an already won game or makes a futile last stand before crumbling to the opponent's 2 healthy counters.

edit: oh yeah he also loses to dynamax lol

i might be wrong on this, but i challenge you to build with zacc and make it really work if you wanna convince me on this

 

[a loser]

Happy DLC release everyone! I don't know about you all, but I'm excited to get building with all the new and returning mons, mainly the legendary ones that will give us some much needed bulk. The council has put together a list of new mons in the meta and grouped them according to which ones we think will have higher or lower impacts on the meta. The list is shown below and also can be found at the bottom of the VR. If something isn't included, it doesn't mean it has no chance of being viable but this should hold us over until we know enough to vote on an updated VR.

New Pokemon (Upon Crown Tundra Release)
Higher Impact (listed alphabetically)














Lower Impact




















While we need some time to let this meta develop, I'll go ahead and propose a cleaning out of the D Rank. With our new options available, I think the mons listed below are either outclassed or just unviable now. So I'm proposing the each of these drop out of the rankings.
Corviknight
Gastrodon
Hippowdon
Jellicent
Lapras
Mandibuzz
Milotic
Rhydon
Vaporeon

 

[a loser]

Two quick bans and one suspect test later and the initial Crown Tundra Viability Rankings are finally up!

Things are still settling down from the Intrepid Sword ban, but this initial VR should give a good enough idea of what is viable in the metagame right now. Since lots of mons are still finding their true place and role, the council decided to forego subranks to start since there isn't quite enough definition in the metagame to decide between B+ and B- on things. Looking at the initial VR, you'll see it is quite bottom heavy in the C and D ranks. Many of these mons do have specific niches, but these ranks should clear up and/or filter out as the metagame further develops.
The speed tiers should be updated within a couple days to reflect this new VR (thanks willdbeast)

As always, feel free to share your thoughts on the rankings or give nominations to join the ranks.

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

The VR you've developed looks pretty solid overall. However I’d like to make a few suggestions:

Calyrex Ice Rider D --->C.: Calyrex IR is an incredibly potent pokemon on offensive teams. It can shatter opposing teams once checks such as FC, Imposter, and Prankster have been removed or weakened. Additionally it’s excellent bulk and low speed gives it the opportunity to set-up throughout the match.
Sample Set:
Shadowfax (Calyrex-Ice) @ Safety Goggles/Ground Drive
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Glacial Lance
- Precipice Blades/Multi Attack
- Spore/Photon Geyser/Strength Sap
Calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 454-535 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Precipice Blades vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 380-448 (97.9 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 708-832 (168.5 - 198%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 356-420 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 384-452 (81 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Swampert: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Umbreon D---> C
While Umbreon is Generally outclassed by Yveltal since Yveltal has an offensive presence it does have a few notable traits that make it an excellent choice on many builds. For one it lacks the weakness Yveltal has to Ice and Rock which makes it so it doesn’t need as much support with entry hazards and Knock Off users. Additionally since it doesn’t have Yveltal's Ice Weakness it can wall pokemon like Kyruem White and Calyrex with Ice Type Coverage.

Zygarde-C A---> B:
While Zygarde has amazing bulk it’s very mediocre this gen. Almost all physical attackers carry Glacial Lance which is an OHKO, or 2HKO depending whether Zygarde is Fur Coat. Thus Giratina and Swampert outclass it as a Physical Walls due to lacking the times 4 weakness to Glacial Lance.
On the special side Moongeist Beam/Photon Geyser on Specs 2HKOS Ice Scales and Xerneas one of the most common mons in the tier threatens it with Boomburst and Moonsblast. Thus in the role of a special wall it’s utterly outclassed by Dark Types, Ho-Oh and Ice Scales Steel types.

 

[Bean Man]

The VR you've developed looks pretty solid overall. However I’d like to make a few suggestions:

Calyrex Ice Rider D --->C.: Calyrex IR is an incredibly potent pokemon on offensive teams. It can shatter opposing teams once checks such as FC, Imposter, and Prankster have been removed or weakened. Additionally it’s excellent bulk and low speed gives it the opportunity to set-up throughout the match.
Sample Set:
Shadowfax (Calyrex-Ice) @ Safety Goggles/Ground Drive
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Glacial Lance
- Precipice Blades/Multi Attack
- Spore/Photon Geyser/Strength Sap

What's your plan for dealing with any Unaware physical walls? Or something niche like Prankster Topsy Turvy? That seems very easy to counter, what pokemon would you use to support it?

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

What's your plan for dealing with any Unaware physical walls? Or something niche like Prankster Topsy Turvy? That seems very easy to counter, what pokemon would you use to support it?

Unaware is almost never seen since moves like Photon Geyser and Moongiest Beam are commonly seen on Set-Up sweepers and they bypass abilities. Even so physical Unaware wall's like Zygarde and Giratina are 2 Koed by Glacial Lance and Zamazenta is 2 Koed by Precpice Blades.
252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 356-420 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 708-832 (111.3 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 192-226 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
So unless they are at nearly full HP they won't be able to do anything vs Calyrex.

If Calyrex is carrying Spore it can sleep Prankster Toppsy users. Otherwise Dark Type Set-Up sweepers can be used to pressure Prankster Toppsy Turvy users.

 

[Champion Leon]

The VR you've developed looks pretty solid overall. However I’d like to make a few suggestions:

Calyrex Ice Rider D --->C.: Calyrex IR is an incredibly potent pokemon on offensive teams. It can shatter opposing teams once checks such as FC, Imposter, and Prankster have been removed or weakened. Additionally it’s excellent bulk and low speed gives it the opportunity to set-up throughout the match.
Sample Set:
Shadowfax (Calyrex-Ice) @ Safety Goggles/Ground Drive
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Glacial Lance
- Precipice Blades/Multi Attack
- Spore/Photon Geyser/Strength Sap
Calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 454-535 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Precipice Blades vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 380-448 (97.9 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zygarde: 708-832 (168.5 - 198%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 356-420 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Melmetal: 384-452 (81 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Swampert: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Umbreon D---> C
While Umbreon is Generally outclassed by Yveltal since Yveltal has an offensive presence it does have a few notable traits that make it an excellent choice on many builds. For one it lacks the weakness Yveltal has to Ice and Rock which makes it so it doesn’t need as much support with entry hazards and Knock Off users. Additionally since it doesn’t have Yveltal's Ice Weakness it can wall pokemon like Kyruem White and Calyrex with Ice Type Coverage.

Zygarde-C A---> B:
While Zygarde has amazing bulk it’s very mediocre this gen. Almost all physical attackers carry Glacial Lance which is an OHKO, or 2HKO depending whether Zygarde is Fur Coat. Thus Giratina and Swampert outclass it as a Physical Walls due to lacking the times 4 weakness to Glacial Lance.
On the special side Moongeist Beam/Photon Geyser on Specs 2HKOS Ice Scales and Xerneas one of the most common mons in the tier threatens it with Boomburst and Moonsblast. Thus in the role of a special wall it’s utterly outclassed by Dark Types, Ho-Oh and Ice Scales Steel types.

What about just using something with a better typing, while being naturally bulkier, and faster?

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Fighting Memory
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Multi-Attack
- Glacial Lance
- Coil
- Shore Up / Sunsteel Strike / Anchor Shot

A replacement ability, in Hustle, mitigates its lack of STAB, giving it the equivalent for Glacial Lance, and for it's other offense, having Coil's +1 Atk + Hustle = x2.25, which is even better than +2 Attack at x2.

Beyond that boost difference, it's STAB Multi-Attack Fighting is stronger vs the Steels you listed for Precipice Blades calculations, and can break other types like Normal / Dark / Ice and it's Steel-type breaks Fairy without set-up.

It can also boost its Defense, in case Imposter comes along, and can use Sunsteel Strike to break Unaware / Fur Coat, similar to Photon Geyser. I prefer Shore Up for the longevity, especially with Coil's +Defense.

If the foe has Prankster Haze / doesn't let you set-up first, you still have Hustle's passive boost, while Simple relies on making a boost for it to make a difference. Plus, Coil, remedies accuracy issues and shouldn't be an issue 80% of the time, even without Coil.

Lastly, this set is completely Imposterproof, with Anchor Shot, as it can abuse the +Def to negate the +Atk that Imposter has. Overall, Zamazenta-C is self-sufficient, and doesn't necessarily need to set-up.

Calculations

Fairy:
252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 402-474 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

1-2HKO's vs Walls:
252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Glacial Lance vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 270-318 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 536-632 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 356-422 (91.7 - 108.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 536-632 (138.1 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 339-400 (83.9 - 99%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

VS Imposter: (Adjusted Def to 145)

252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 240-284 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

*********************

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

What about just using something with a better typing, while being naturally bulkier, and faster?

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Fighting Memory
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Multi-Attack
- Glacial Lance
- Coil
- Shore Up / Sunsteel Strike / Anchor Shot

A replacement ability, in Hustle, mitigates its lack of STAB, giving it the equivalent for Glacial Lance, and for it's other offense, having Coil's +1 Atk + Hustle = x2.25, which is even better than +2 Attack at x2.

Beyond that boost difference, it's STAB Multi-Attack Fighting is stronger vs the Steels you listed for Precipice Blades calculations, and can break other types like Normal / Dark / Ice and it's Steel-type breaks Fairy without set-up.

It can also boost its Defense, in case Imposter comes along, and can use Sunsteel Strike to break Unaware / Fur Coat, similar to Photon Geyser. I prefer Shore Up for the longevity, especially with Coil's +Defense.

If the foe has Prankster Haze / doesn't let you set-up first, you still have Hustle's passive boost, while Simple relies on making a boost for it to make a difference. Plus, Coil, remedies accuracy issues and shouldn't be an issue 80% of the time, even without Coil.

Lastly, this set is completely Imposterproof, with Anchor Shot, as it can abuse the +Def to negate the +Atk that Imposter has. Overall, Zamazenta-C is self-sufficient, and doesn't necessarily need to set-up.

Calculations

Fairy:
252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 402-474 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

1-2HKO's vs Walls:
252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Glacial Lance vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 270-318 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 536-632 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 356-422 (91.7 - 108.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 536-632 (138.1 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 339-400 (83.9 - 99%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

VS Imposter: (Adjusted Def to 145)

252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 240-284 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

*********************

While your set is a creative stallbreaker a huge problem with it is that it is that it's much easier to revenge kill. After a bit of chip Calyrex SR can simply revenge kill you regardless of how many boosts you have up. 252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 284-336 (73.1 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Additionally since you are faster than most walls there's nothing stopping opponents from just stealing your boost or Knocking Off your drive and forcing you to rely on moves with shaky accuarcy. Calyrex on the other hand is slower than most Spectral Thief users and having Safety Goggles removed doesn't make the set any less threatening. Your Zamzenta set wins in the long Game due to it's higher pp and typing I'll give that, but on many offensive teams you want to win the game as quickly as possibe and that Calyrex set outclasses Zamzenta in that regard.

 

[Champion Leon]

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While your set is a creative stallbreaker a huge problem with it is that it is that it's much easier to revenge kill. After a bit of chip Calyrex SR can simply revenge kill you regardless of how many boosts you have up. 252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 284-336 (73.1 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Additionally since you are faster than most walls there's nothing stopping opponents from just stealing your boost or Knocking Off your drive and forcing you to rely on moves with shaky accuarcy. Calyrex on the other hand is slower than most Spectral Thief users and having Safety Goggles removed doesn't make the set any less threatening. Your Zamzenta set wins in the long Game due to it's higher pp and typing I'll give that, but on many offensive teams you want to win the game as quickly as possibe and that Calyrex set outclasses Zamzenta in that regard.

Although I mentioned Precipice Blades for the 120 base Ground damage example since it is your first slash, this was more in regards to the alternative moveset slash you had with Multi-Attack. Zamazenta allows it to Attack with its Multi-Attack before an opponent can use Knock Off, (I.e. a Steel that can stomach the rest of Calyrex’s moves).

How do you handle Impostor when your other slashed version of the set doesn’t pack Spore + Safety Goggles? If they are Scarf they could hit you harder, and first to force you out; and if they are Eviolite, they can speed tie you and are more durable. You could argue Strength Sap, but that is the final alternative, which means it looks like you would prefer Photon Geyser over that.

Calyrex still attracts Spectral Thief because it is weak to it, and it can take Knock Off at the same effectiveness. Being weak attracts both, while Zamazenta doesn’t necessarily attract those utility moves as much, by its unpredictability, and doesn’t need to setup thanks to Hustle, bc when you see that Calyrex isn’t Choice Band, you likely know it will use a set-up move.

Ultimately, you can say it can underspeed Spectral Thief, but oftentimes, walls are slower than even naturally slow set-up, Calyrex-Ice needs to take a turn to set-up, and takes Stealth Rock, which reduces its natural bulk, while Zamazenta-C is 4x resistant.

Let’s compare apples to apples, Calyrex’s 3rd move is the Multi-Attack sets, and 4th move is Photon Geyser vs Sunsteel Strike.

I see what Calyrex is doing, but it requires a set-up turn to function, as it’s too slow otherwise, is weak to stealth rock, has a much weaker Steel coverage move, and Photon Geyser isn’t really super effective against anything relevant beyond Eternatus. While Sunsteel covers more.

To your point on Calyrex-Shadow being a threat: not if it comes in on Coil, as Zamazenta-C can KO Calyrex-Shadow after chip, while Calyrex-Ice is actually afraid of Calyrex-Shadow bc it is weak to Ghost.

+1 252 Atk Hustle Zamazenta-Crowned Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Calyrex-Shadow: 334-394 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Since it 4x resists Stealth Rock, it is much harder to chip Zamazenta-Crowned, than it is Calyrex-Shadow, so the chip on Zama-C is less realistic. Calyrex-S can only force it out if Zamazenta hasn’t Coiled, or hit it on the switch in for a 2HKO.

Edited for on-topic request.

 

[a loser]

Can we please keep the discussion on this thread to VR nominations and talking about the other resources like speed tiers and such? Back and forth discussion on theory sets does not belong here.

Also to clear up some confusion, feel free to nominate subranks for any future VRs. Subranks include A+, A-, B+ and B-.

 

[berry]

Some VR noms in response to Loser's post above

A -> S
Probably my most out-there nom, but also it's very grounded in truth. I've seen Xerneas as THE most consistent mon in the format at taking on multiple jobs since the beginning of DLC2. Its poison heal set can capitalize off of one or two quiver dances by outspeeding a gigantic chunk of the meta at +1, and STAB moonblast is possibly the best STAB to have, hitting omnipresent dragons for double damage and everything else not named crowned dog(s),a solgaleo derivative, or melm for full. Xern's immunity to dragon means it's able to avoid core enforcer counterplay entirely, giving it even fewer ways to be defeated once it's set up with a quiver or two. The addition of Thunder Cage boots its viability a gigantic amount: instead of having absolutely no counterplay vs mons like ho-oh when it used to run magma storm, Xern is able to click tcage (which has a higher PP than magstorm anyway) and trap mons, allowing for free quiver dances or healing turns while killing the opponent's momentum.
Pheal is far from the only viable set that xern can run: in this OMWC there has been very effective usage of xern as a pixilate user as well, since it has great synergy with mons like caly-s that lose to dark types. Its great defensive stats allow it to click rapid spin without any immunities, and fire off multiple high-powered boombursts with the speed boosts from spin. Xern is one of the most consistent mons in the format by far because it excels at filling multiple roles and it doesn't have a hard time blanket checking most of the format when the opponent's team is ridded of the very few existing switch ins.

B -> A-
I don't have as much to say about kyogre as I do about xern, but Kyogre has always been good in BH, primal form or not. I've seen a lot of instances of this mon running its bw and oras poison heal set (scald / qd / spore / filler) and it succeeds under many of the same conditions that I mentioned in xern's description above. Kyogre also has great typing this gen: pure water allows it to resist or take neutral damage from glacial lances and sunsteel strikes, two of the most common physical attacks in the format right now. It's noticeably not on the same level as xern, but it's still a super consistent option that I expect to see everywhere.

B -> A
This nomination pulls from a lot of omwc BH action in the past couple weeks: gigas is an incredible offensive phealer that capitalizes on the pseudo self-improofing move facade and a great natural immunity to spectral thief.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1242877585
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1242989146
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1243114329-xwexhtdfp4wy9gzlutlt22x9646ho38pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1240451286-twt7pvexjascu0iqaf4eo6cyd9yzncppw
all omwc week 2, lots of gigas winning action

B -> A
I have no idea why Etern is in B, this mon is an offensive and defensive powerhouse in all senses of the word. Upon Sugarhigh's dragon maw team being released into the wild, the mon has taken it's place as one of the single best offensive dragons in the format, boasting extremely high spatk and speed which allow it to absolutely level much of the competition. Its great dragon/poison typing also means it's one of the few mons who can actually afford to contest Xerneas while it's still setting up, since even at +1 spdef, Xern isn't going to want to take hits from a 145spatk poison user. While maw is the most common set right now, Etern can succeed with other sets such as regenvest and gambit, making the most out of its third super high stat, HP. The combination of offensive pressure and the amount of options that the mon can run definitely cements the mon as a super solid choice on many BH teams.

Last but not least

D -> C+ or B-
Now that we're playing in a species clause meta, substitutes to common mons once you've already used their slot are in high demand. Fini is by far the most effective pheal xern substitute, and what it lacks in offensive presence, it more than makes up for it with its incredible defensive typing and 115/130 defensive stats. The most important tool in this mon's kit is its water typing, which lets it resist moves that xern wouldn't really want to stay in on, such as sunsteels and glacial lances. It doesn't do everything xern does, but it's one of our best options as a fairy type who can fill roles once you've already used your xern slot.

EDIT:

B -> A
A-> A
OR consolidate both mons into one slot in A. There's no need to separate them, and there's no reason for blissey to be an entire tier below chansey.

Anyone who thinks blissey is a straight downgrade to chansey is literal years behind on their imposter item choice. Eviolite is only borderline viable and lucky punch doesn't even exist in this generation anymore. Alternate items such as scarf, shell, boots, or even torb are imposter's preferred items in this generation. The "running eviolite to trick my opponent into thinking that i'm running eviolite when i'm actually running scarf!" ruse is horribly outdated and it should have died out with the dawn of the alola region. No smart player risks a speed tie unless it's their only wincond, and people in this generation are actually competent when it comes to improofing (and calcing!) unlike players during the bw and oras eras. Just use blissey and claim your extra HP and better defenses. Your eviolite is going to get knocked anyway, and then you're just playing with a straight downgrade when you could have just brought the better mon.

 

[XxSevagxX]

Landorus: UR --> C- / D

A really solid choiced breaker (Adaptability / Mold Breaker) & Aerilate pokemon. Flying & Ground stab together are really good in the meta right now. Not much can switch into it safely and it also has a niche of being one point faster than base 90 pokemon. I've had varied success with it and I believe it at least deserves a place on the VR.