BH BH7 Suspect #1: Crystal-Free Z-Moves - Voter Identification & Discussion

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E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
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#52
Some important notes:
1)
I'm proposing a compromise option: Ban CFZ-moves on more than one Pokemon.
This is not a possibility as can be seen here when I first suggested this very idea:
Let's not limit them. They should be treated as any other moves. Would you limit Fire moves per team? Would you limit Physical moves per mon? No. As MAMP pointed out, we don't need a complex ban in this situation.
Either: ban specific Z-Moves, or prevent all Z-moves from being used directly (like Primals last gen).
2)
Congratulations on those who met reqs. Make sure to note that providing an image to your rank is good but you also need to provide proof that it's your alt. Make sure to edit it in by the deadline.
Some good examples:
1 2 3
I would greatly prefer if you use image hosters instead of links that I have to go and then download images of your rank from.
 
#54


Click the image for a bigger version. If you have trouble seeing it, lemme know, I have a full-sized image on my computer but image hosting sites keep downsizing it. If this isn't proof enough, prod me on the site and I'll arrange for a time to get on that alt and whisper you if you want. That or I'll figure out how to make a video of me swapping from Rumors to CFZ Science and back again.

...and no, I didn't get reqs with six Arcanines. I wish I did, but... my W/L would probably be closer to 50/50.

Anyway, I learned a few things during this req requirements.

1) I'm still pretty bad at playing frail hyper-offense. Deo-A spam just isn't my style. I need my bulky mons.

2) The meta is so fragile and offensively slanted that Guardian of Alola isn't as potent as I expected. But oh boy, when the right situation/opposing team rears its head, it really friggin' works way too well.

3) CFZ spam is not as bad as it sounds. You hear cries and think it one shots literally everything. Then you get in game and find you're two-shotting bulky mons instead if they're not weak to it. Or if they're really bulky, screwing them over with the right coverage move or CFZ. Although... it's still utterly ridiculous to CFZ + resisted move 2HKO a wall. I ran my Quick Feet Mega-Ray set, replacing Earth Power with Alola. Nuked an AV-Regen Solgaleo because of it. Probably woulda did the same to complete-Garde, but I had Ice Beam anyway, so meh.

4) Deo-A spam can counter your counters. I lost mostly because of misplays (because I don't make the greatest choices for frail HO teams), but also choosing the wrong lead, one time I forgot Water Shuriken was priority, and twice because the opponent was full-on anti-Deo-A spam, so had more counters than I had Deo-As. Teams with counters would often take me down 3-4 mons before I took it out and swept their team.

5) Playing Deo-A spam is boring. I couldn't be bothered to play more than 8ish games a day.

6) Also reminded me of why I hate laddering. Low ladder is no fun, mid and high ladder don't have enough good players and instead is filled with meta abusers (like myself this time), and worrying about ELO and crap leads to going for boring, unfun strategies in pursuit of winning at all costs rather than trying to have a good match.
 
#56
If there's anything this suspect has taught me how to do better, it's gaining an instinct for when your opponent's Deoxys-A is running Genesis Supernova. Because being able to switch in a Dark type and have it fail is just too satisfying and having every non-immune wall take more than 50% is sad.
 
#63
http://imgur.com/SEOblON
Sorry if this image doesn't work. Idk why I can't upload on mobile.

I've observed through this experience that I need a therapist some CFZs are extremely powerful, like Genesis Supernova in conjunction with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt to nuke most tanks in the meta. Other ones, however, like Darkest Lariat and Pulverizing Pancake, have hindering factors that prevent them from being very useful. In a sense, I believe some CFZs should be banned because they are obviously exploitable, but I wonder if some of them are not overpowered.

Basically, Genesis + 10 million + Coverage + Boosting/Even more coverage can be impossible to stop and make the game come down to whoever has the faster CFZ user. Who wants to use Volt Absorb Yveltal, which is weak to Ice Beam anyway? Maybe you could use Thick Fat Krookodile.

But who would use Harvest Tyranitar, or Harvest Yveltal, or Gyarados, or Regigigas, or Lopunny (users of Malicious Moonsault and Pulverizing Pancake)? What would they even function as, anyway? They're all either too slow or lack the same Attacking stats to threaten nearly as many things.

This is one of my first few forum posts, so please don't tear me up if I'm doing something wrong. Also sorry for textwall, idk why so much is on my mind.





Bad w/l cause my team auto-loses to deo-a spam, rip.
Vote: BAN (Mostly because I don't like playing 50/50's all the time)

Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Lovely Kiss
- Rapid Spin

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Psystrike
- Moongeist Beam
- King's Shield

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Night Shade
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Gengar-Mega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Sludge Wave
- Shell Smash

Registeel @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Haze
- Destiny Bond
- U-turn
- Roost

Chansey @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- First Impression
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit
Wow, how did you get reqs with Deoxys-Speed?
 
#66
That is so fake look at that five it's all like 1511.

Nice try.
Hey sorry my computer's fonts are messed up
Anyways luckily for you, I played a couple more games and my elo fell out of the 1500s so now there's no more suspicious 5

Happy now???????????????

edit: Here are a couple more alts for good measure:

(bad screenshot but the account is fore encorcer)
 
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#69


Will definitely vote DONT BAN
I don't think they are anywhere close to overpowered, and if they are as strong as people think, there is counterplay.
Alongside that it comes with some downsides, wastes a move slot and wastes an item if you want to use it twice. Imposter Chanseys and Blisseys can usually tank them and also use them.
 
#73
Had to actually make a forum account finally.

Ban these monsters so I can get back to enjoying BH pls
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Defog
- Final Gambit
- Lunar Dance

Kyurem-Black @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Lax Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Rapid Spin
- Fake Out
- Spectral Thief

Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Water Spout
- Oblivion Wing
- Light of Ruin

Solgaleo @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Parting Shot
- Recover
- Sunsteel Strike

Zygarde-Complete @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Thousand Arrows
- Power Trip
- Acupressure

What we learned: Chansey is still busted, especially when it can copy a CFZ spammer, tank a hit, and proceed to kill 3 more things before it has to switch.
 
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#74
Alt Proof.png
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(Note: Wrong Alt, but cant help that now)
I will be voting ban on CFZ because they take minimal skill to use and can warrant a very high reward
A lot of people want one per team, but its really just an instant wall breaker or sweeper killer with no real skill to use

I used kind of a strange team except for 3 matches where i used deo-a spam (Sry Everyone)

Evanescence (Pheromosa) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust
- Beat Up

Rachel (Furret) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Destiny Bond

Senor Fluffles (Zygarde-Complete) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Lax Nature
- Heart Swap
- Core Enforcer
- Thousand Arrows
- Defog

?sychicSwee?er (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Stored Power

Regi Giygas (Regigigas) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Spectral Thief
- Sunsteel Strike

Splashy Splashy (Groudon-Primal) @ Water Memory
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Naughty Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Thousand Arrows
- Leaf Blade
- Ice Hammer
 
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#75
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So, the above are my reqs for the suspect test, and on the subject of CFZs, I vote ban. Why? Because playing 5 Deoxys-attack and a Chansey that just use the same moves every single time is A) Literally 0 fun to play with and against, B) Requires no skill to play on the part of the person using that team, and C) Needs to be VERY specifically counterteamed if one wants any chance of winning, and even then, one must play to utter perfection and win several 50/50s to win. Shoutout to MaceMaster and PDT, I used their teams to get the reqs to vote on this!
 
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