Blaziken

[DriggerEX]

Wondering if anyone considered My Lovely Combat Chicken [who makes a great anti-lead Gen 4... well mine does!] to be a Baton Passer... Provided you can breed Speed Boost... Which would be unfair I know but really cool...

Blaziken @Leftovers
Nature of Choise... [ Any Def/SpD Boost ]
Evs :252 HP 252 Spe 4 Def
- Baton Pass
- Claw Sharpen/ Substitute
- Blaze Kick
- Hi Jump Kick/ Protect/ Substitute

I think it actually works better than Ninjask ... Sacrifice Pure Speed for more bulk... a great partner for the Combat chicken would be Shibirudon Checks Ground Counters and will greatly benefit from the boosted stats... Blaziken actually goes with any counter for its weaknesses perfectly.

I am soo glad that that dumn monkey finally got outclassed! I always hate the immitation ape! Blaziken FTW

 

[Elfam]

YES I HATE THE STUPID APE TOO! but i dont beleive that it is able to bp but i can only get specualation on this note which is frustrating, but passing sharp claws could be a lot of fun.

 

[Omnipresent]

I am definitely happy with this. Blaziken was my favorite third gen pokemon because of his first appearance on the show, but when I found out he was not as fast as he was on the show, I was crushed.

My only wonder now is which one to use.. Swords Dancer or the Wall breaker because I like both very much, for both the differet reasonings behind them. Swords Dance has raw power that I love, but the strategy behind breaking pokemon down and sweeing up the rest in the end goes with my strategy.

Can't wait to try them both out, which is more effective for you guys?

 

[Charlemagne]

I am definitely happy with this. Blaziken was my favorite third gen pokemon because of his first appearance on the show, but when I found out he was not as fast as he was on the show, I was crushed.

My only wonder now is which one to use.. Swords Dancer or the Wall breaker because I like both very much, for both the differet reasonings behind them. Swords Dance has raw power that I love, but the strategy behind breaking pokemon down and sweeing up the rest in the end goes with my strategy.

Can't wait to try them both out, which is more effective for you guys?

Claw Sharpen. Boosts Attack and Accuracy. SD is great, but not if you miss.

"Blaziken kept going and crashed!" is not what you want to see on your screen after launching a +2 195 BP LO boosted Hi Jump Kick.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Um, you're forgetting something: Late-game sweeping.

I'm well aware we're talking about the late game, but the late game isn't an ideal place for Blaziken either. Lucario was in part, a fantastic late game sweeper due to SR resistance and poison immunity giving it the resilience to last well into the late game. Breloom, Flygon, Metagross and Empoleon were other pokemon who performed well in the late game by having the natural bulk and resistance to passive damage to help preserve them into the late game while still giving them the chance to help teammates early and mid.

Blaziken lacks any type endurance, though at least it is not SR weak.

The very fact that Lucario is such a powerful late game sweeper makes me concerned about Blaziken's ability there.

I never denied that Blaziken couldn't sweep-- I just pointed out that it really doesn't need to risk Swords Dance to do so. I can throw it back and point out that late game, the whole enemy team will be hurting anyway, in which case SD's power is no where near as important as having a 3rd coverage move, especially with Blaziken's already impressive offensive stats.

In other words, Blaziken still has great wall breaking potential early game and sweeping potential late game with sub + 3 moves, which imo, is a less risk less reward plan with more potential than the high risk, high reward plan of SD.

After all, there is always the chance that the Skarmory you are trying to force out could always just Brave Bird you into oblivion. :/

 

[Charlemagne]

A Sturdy, full HP Skarmory? Otherwise, it's OHKOed by Blast and possibly Blitz.

 

[Chou Toshio]

A Sturdy, full HP Skarmory? Otherwise, it's OHKOed by Blast and possibly Blitz.

You are totally missing the point. I'm saying that if you're trying to setup a move not named Substitute, there's always the chance Skarm will just Brave Bird you into oblivion as you Swords Dance/Sharpen Claw expecting it to switch.

 

[Charlemagne]

You are totally missing the point. I'm saying that if you're trying to setup a move not named Substitute, there's always the chance Skarm will just Brave Bird you into oblivion as you Swords Dance/Sharpen Claw expecting it to switch.

I totally missed the point.

But, knowing that it can Brave Bird you, why would you try that on Skarmory? Just Blast the danged thing and get a Speed Boost.

I can envision a similar situation with Blissey T-waving 'Ziken. Substitute might be a good idea.

 

[GLS]

I totally missed the point.

But, knowing that it can Brave Bird you, why would you try that on Skarmory? Just Blast the danged thing and get a Speed Boost.

I can envision a similar situation with Blissey T-waving 'Ziken. Substitute might be a good idea.

Won't protect be more useful in also helping prevent Blaziken from being killed by scarf users, as well as this kind of thing?

 

[Epic Cherubi]

If you Sub as the Scarf user switches in, you accomplished virtually the same thing.

 

[Omnipresent]

Claw Sharpen. Boosts Attack and Accuracy. SD is great, but not if you miss.

"Blaziken kept going and crashed!" is not what you want to see on your screen after launching a +2 195 BP LO boosted Hi Jump Kick.

I didn't even know that was a new move that's awesome, it can increase Fire Blast (just sayin) as well.

 

[RedSceptile.]

Well, I dont know if a set like this would be viable:

Blaziken@Life Orb
Lonely or Naughty
220 Atk, 48 SpAtk, 240 Speed
Claw Sharpen
Hi Jump Kick
Fire Blast
Earthquake/Stone Edge

Possibly have Substitute as a scout, but as obvious this would be perfect for late game. I guess Claw Sharpen over SD since crashing your Blaziken wont be too fun :S

 

[red12345]

It is simply amazing... it doesn't even need that many speed EVs now. It can actually force something out and sub until it gets desired speed...

 

[Santa_Clauz]

Much as I love the idea of a SD Blaziken, I have to agree with Chou, it lacks the natural resistances and defences against passive damage and priority, of Lucario. In my mind, there are only two sets that can work.

Either a 4 attack mixed set, or a Sub + 3 Attacks.

These two have shown to be consistently reliable for something with great power and paper defences, and decent-good speed, and Blaziken fits into this perfectly. With +1/2 speed and a sub, you will always get 2 hits in, and thus, you have the capability to KO all your potential counters, as was evidenced by the calculations done by Lee for his MixKen.

In addition, Claw sharpen WILL NOT WORK. It has all the drawbacks of the SD set, and none of the pros, that is, the overwhelming power after a single turn setup. It gets a little more accuracy, but I have seen more people fail their sweep because they take too long to set up than because they missed with Fire Blast or Stone Edge. If Gyarados can't get 2 DDs, what hope has Blaziken got?

 

[latenlazy]

I wonder how effective a sub reversal set would work on blaziken...

 

[Lee]

Um, you're forgetting something: Late-game sweeping.

This + this:

I never denied that Blaziken couldn't sweep-- I just pointed out that it really doesn't need to risk Swords Dance to do so.

The best team I used in DPPt also featured the best late game sweeper I used in DPPt.

Infernape @ Life Orb
Naive
12 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Close Combat
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Ice

In case you can't see where I'm going with this - you don't need to boost to be a late game sweeper. If a Pokemon has excellent mixed attacking stats, massive base Power moves, fantastic coverage and speed and a Life Orb then you're pretty much good to go already. Swords Dance only serves to cost you a coverage moveslot, emphasise your poor defenses and resistance and make you more one-dimensional.

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Rash
60 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Spe

- Fire Blast
- Hi Jump Kick
- Hidden Power Grass / Electric
- Stone Edge

This set gets most of the important KO's in 'the late game' that the SD set gets but doesn't require a turn of set up and isn't limited to late game sweeping purposes - it can function as a powerful stall-breaker/hit and runner in the early-mid game and then clean up later. The SD set doesn't offer that reliabilty...it forces you to throw all your eggs into one basket and build your entire team around Blaziken and ensuring his sweep and even with all that I'm not entirely convinced it will do it any better than the mixed set which you can pretty much just slap on any balanced/offensive team.

In other words, Blaziken still has great wall breaking potential early game and sweeping potential late game with sub + 3 moves, which imo, is a less risk less reward plan with more potential than the high risk, high reward plan of SD.

My main concern with the Sub + 3 Attacks set is that I truly hate Sub + LO sets for the fact that if you switch in, use Substitute and then attack in a common battle situation you've just lost 60% of your health (-12.5% for SR, - 25% for Substitute, - 10% for LO recoil and -12.5% for two rounds of Sandstorm buffeting). You could choose to use Leftovers over Life Orb but, just like his monkey bretheren, a Blaziken without a Life Orb is like a face without a smile. ;(

Screw Wide Lens. Just Sharpen your Claws, man.

We've been through this already. Claw Sharpen sucks. +2 Wide Lens has a higher damage output than +1 Life Orb whilst also boasting a 99% accurate Hi Jump Kick and not costing you 10% of your health every turn.

 

[Little Battler]

what is this? my favorite fire starter got speed boost?

dohoho I'm so fucking high right now. Scizor class base attack with speed boost, move away you stupid ape.


Blaziken @ Expert Belt / Life Orb / leftovers
Speed Boost
EV's the way you like it
-Claw sharpen
-Substitute
-Hi Jump Kick
-Blaze Kick

some nice dual stab with an accuracy boosting move to ensure HJK's hit? yes please. Physical only, so it can be walled by physical walls, obviously. I'm going to use this for my physical heavy offense team, where the whole point is to bring down the physical wall then proceed the heavy physical slauther. In this case, the chicken will roast the steel bird. Switch on something that you can scare away (blissey etc), sub up, claw sharpen as your sub fades, and proceed to rip things up.


GIMMICK SET:
KamikazeKen
Life Orb / Expert Belt
Speed Boost
252 atk / 252 spe / 4 HP
-FLAREBLITZ
-CLOSECOMBAT
-BRAVEBIRD
-swords dance?

Basically kills with sheer brute force, especially if you get that swords dance in. 3 140 BP moves, 2 of them are STABs. It will get revenged easily, but it will do massive damage to anything in its path before falling down.

Oh well that's all I can think of.

 

[Elfam]

doesnt learn cloose combat thats why we keep mentioning hjk... plus its 130 bp

but yeas that is one of the most suicidal pokemon without explosion i have ever seen

still think that sub+3 beats dual stab... plus this gives blaze ability to take ditto down(weirdest generation yet)...

Edit: holy crap i looked at your team Lee and for getting #1 i think you officially become the most credible person here because undeniably ape and blaze are almost the same pokemon

 

[Elfam]

I believe that Lee here seems to make most impressive arguement and i agree with him but I'm wondering which new pokemon do you feel that Blaziken need to be most prepared for because i feel like salamence and garchomp are coming down a tier beacuase the insane quantity of new overpowered pokemon so Who do you think has best chance of being Blazes nemesis?(please note giving a pokemons typing helps me remember which ones they are because DONT have game yet... waiting for spring)

My votes:
ditto(fyi new ability allows instant transform however i dont know any way to counter him besides sub...),
i also feel like shanderaa(fire/ghost w/shadow tag) needs to prepared for so a rock/ghost/ground move seems ideal,
still all those bulky waters need to be handled because a non set up version lacks adequate brute force, but most will be hurt enough late game(ex vap, suicune, swampert), but hp grass would be fairly useless unless heavily phys def(minus swamp) ((70*2=140)<(130*1.5=195)), but gyrados isnt threatened much by a set withought stone edge or electric
Uber Dragons gallore may justify hp ice(ex flygon, dragonite(especially extremespeeders),garchomp,salamence )...

 

[Omnipresent]

Stone Edge for Shadow Tag Shanderaa and for Salamence switch-ins is what I see if those come in.

I'd also like HP Grass on instead of Elec, just for the better coverage.

 

[Elfam]

isnt hp grass"for coverage" pointless? blaze has so much power that, without it being an hp for a 4x weak foe, i dont think it would be worth it

 

[Jumpman16]

I'm surprised a Cheer Up set has not been mentioned more. It goes perfectly well with Blaziken's new found Speed Boost, and mix attacking capabilities. You're losing a slight bit of coverage that would be found with a four attack set, but late in a match resisted Hi Jump Kicks / Fire Blast can cut through opponents regardless.

Me either, it is almost seemingly made for Blaziken and its 120Atk/110SpA, decent STAB coverage and "mediocre" speed. It may almost become a guessing game on which poke to send in on a decent Cheer Up Set, because you could easily run Fire Blast/Hi Jump Kick/Stone Edge/Cheer Up to cover basically everything.

I almost feel that Claw Sharpen is interchangeable with Cheer Up on this set since it makes every move 100% accurate and boosts two of them, improving 5/6 of the moves' (all accuracy and two base power) to 3/6 with Cheer Up (just all base power). Blaziken stands to play similarly to Garchomp in OU in that you know what's coming in its standard set but you can't really do all that much about it.

 

[Elfam]

yeah but setting up is always a gamble and am i the only one who fears ditto?

Note: i dont Really think a cheer up set is as necessary as a sd mainly because sd gives crazy overwhelming force that cheer-up and claw sharpen lack... plus on the switch i feel like you would be very susceptible to a a scarfgon or chomp(or DITTO) and that leaves you at a disadvatage where as sub buys u time and still gives you the coverage you crave.

 

[Charlemagne]

This + this:

We've been through this already. Claw Sharpen sucks. +2 Wide Lens has a higher damage output than +1 Life Orb whilst also boasting a 99% accurate Hi Jump Kick and not costing you 10% of your health every turn.

Very slightly higher. it's 2x vs 1.95x. No LO recoil does make Wide Lens seem more appealing, though.

But if you're gonna use Wide Lens, you should run Cheer Up over SD. Fire Blast is better than Flare Blitz IMO, especially with the accuracy boost.

93.5% Fire Blast and 99% HJK are less than 100%, but accurate enough.

 

[Elfam]

agreed everyone please acknowledge that cs sucks... unless it can be bped(i totally want to use purgatory with shanderaa)