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Blaziken

speed boost though *cough* *cough8 i want that too... *cough* *cough*
no person has really confirmed or denied the breedability of dw abilities. Plus purgatory needs 3 acc boosts to be perfect... 2 at 83.3%.. one would be 66.6% and no way in hell can blaze get 3 cs off... but if he had speed boost and bp id do it anyway
 
Jumpman16 said:
Me either, it is almost seemingly made for Blaziken and its 120Atk/110SpA, decent STAB coverage and "mediocre" speed. It may almost become a guessing game on which poke to send in on a decent Cheer Up Set, because you could easily run Fire Blast/Hi Jump Kick/Stone Edge/Cheer Up to cover basically everything.

I almost feel that Claw Sharpen is interchangeable with Cheer Up on this set since it makes every move 100% accurate and boosts two of them, improving 5/6 of the moves' (all accuracy and two base power) to 3/6 with Cheer Up (just all base power). Blaziken stands to play similarly to Garchomp in OU in that you know what's coming in its standard set but you can't really do all that much about it.
Click to expand...

The main things that appeal to me with Cheer Up/HJK/SE/Fire Blast over Swords Dance/HJK/Flare Blitz/SE are:

- The Cheer Up set seems to function better 'pre-boost' due to it's mixed attacking capabilities.

- The Cheer Up set isn't quite as susceptible to Intimidate because you can always fall back on Fire Blast.

- Fire Blast is a much better sweeping move than the suicidal Flare Blitz (losing nearly 60% of your health to kill Celebi is frustrating) .

I still have my doubts about Blaziken's ability to find the time to stat up and then do worthwhile damage before being forced to switch out but if I were to go down that route I think I'd opt for Cheer Up over Swords Dance.

As for Claw Sharpen vs Cheer Up, it's an interesting thought. I mentioned that 'Claw Sharpen sucks' earlier and I stick by that if it's being used as a direct substitute for Swords Dance on the all physical set because like I said before, +2 Wide Lens has a (admittedley slightly) higher damage output than +1 Life Orb while also bringing HJK up to an almost perfect 99%, Stone Edge up to an acceptable 88% and Fire Blast to a respectable 93.5%. Most importantly you're not losing 10% of your health every turn that you attack. However Claw Sharpen does have it's uses if you're going mixed for the reasons you stated and with that in mind, it's interesting to compare:

Claw Sharpen/Hi Jump Kick/Fire Blast/Stone Edge @ Life Orb

to

Cheer Up/Hi Jump Kick/Fire Blast/Stone Edge @ Wide Lens

Honestly, all things taken into account, the Claw Sharpen set seems to be a little better on paper. The physical attacks are much stronger thanks to the Life Orb, and Fire Blast is only slightly weaker than a +1 Wide Lens FB. A few calculations to expand on that:

252 Atk +1 Life Orb HJK vs 252/252+ Swampert - 74% - 87%
252 Atk +1 Wide Lens HJK vs 252/252+ Swampert - 57% - 67%

4 SpA +0 Life Orb Fire Blast vs 252/0 Zapdos - 51% - 61%
4 SpA +1 Wide Lens Fire Blast vs 252/0 Zapdos - 59% - 70%

The x-factors here are that the Claw Sharpen set will never miss whereas the Cheer Up set can still let you down, in spite of Wide Lens. The Cheer Up set has the advantage of added longevity due to the lack of Life Orb.

If, like me, you're not an accuracy freak you can always just go balls-to-the-wall and use the Cheer Up set with Life Orb but 95/85/80 accuracy attacks aren't to everybodys tastes and will, at some point, let you down at the worst possible moment. Guess it comes down to preference.
 
Yeah, it does...and it also comes down to thoughtful, objective considerations like you just laid out. I did not post about Wide Lens because I didn't give it much though for this post, even though I am as big an accuracy freak as you can get (the reason I've been pimping Claw Sharpen for like two months now). I will also note, though, that I'm personally very put off by Life Orb and I think I've literally never used ever it in standard or BT play whereas I have used Stone Edge and or Fire Blast a few times (though the former is "the worst move in DP" and the latter directly cost me a Smogon Frontier Factory match). So since the sets I posted assumed Life Orb it's only fair to give Wide Lens a fair look given people already feel Claw Sharpen is just as "gimmicky". Blaziken will like to stay alive, so there are two strikes against it (LO recoil and "lol you missed you're probably dead), but the damage output the Cheer Up set will miss quite a few OHKOs in comparison, especially with HJK. Really comes down to whether you prefer killing slightly more pokes to actually connecting on them more often.
 
The fact that Blaziken has so far 3 very powerful sets that are so close to each other that their use comes down to personal preference is amazing. Excellent work on helping out Blaziken, Game Freak.

For me personally I will be sticking to the SD + wide lens set. I'd much rather worry about getting Blaziken in once and set up once and sweep an entire team with OHKOs than I would worrying about getting revenge killed by bulky things like Swampert who the other sets don't pack the power to OHKO.
 
I was just wondering, would Vacuum Wave be of any use right before you die just to kill a priority opponent? After killing 1-2 Pokemon or whatever, and they bring in their...say Lucario, would just hitting him with a priority move before dying be good? I'm not sure how much damage vacuum wave would do with a mixed set with maxed sp atk EVs.

Can anyone do some calcs for vacuum wave?
 
Ndota said:
I was just wondering, would Vacuum Wave be of any use right before you die just to kill a priority opponent? After killing 1-2 Pokemon or whatever, and they bring in their...say Lucario, would just hitting him with a priority move before dying be good? I'm not sure how much damage vacuum wave would do with a mixed set with maxed sp atk EVs.

Can anyone do some calcs for vacuum wave?
Click to expand...

Cheer Up + Flare Blitz + Vacuum Wave + Coverage?
 
Unboosted Vacuum Wave does 60%-71% to Lucario.
A Cheered Up Vaccum Wave would be a likely OHKO.

I can't really see him making room for Vacuum Wave though.
 
It wouldn't help against Lucario, because Extreme Speed is now a +2 priority. Dragonite will be a counter to Blaziken, barring a switch into Stone Edge.
 
Alright then, theres kinda no point in using it then. Maybe against Scizor haha. Prob just blast it in the face with fire though, if i survive.
 
honestly i think the only real defense against priority would be a sub but i doubt he will have room for it with other things... i wish his mirror move could copy priority, but arent there going to be a lot of me first users too?
 
looks like people wil not be using infernape much now since blaziken is faster AND has higher Atk and SpAtk.

this is like bullet punch scizor all over again, before scizor had bullet punch. it was ok but not that good, now its one of the most used pokemon.

Adamant SD blaziken + 1 speed boost has 744 attack and 388 Speed which is a huge threat

now if only there was a speed boost absol, :(
 
I can see blaze replacing infernape too (though I love the flaming ape so much <3) yet blaziken will face some stiff competition from the new water/ghost thing, predict well when using it people!
 
I'm kind of unhappy about this. I never liked Blaziken and now it overtakes basically every other pokemon in its genre (Infernape especially, who i don't like either but oh well).
 
A few things,

1: Dragonite is in no way a Blaziken counter. Max + Att banded Dragonite's ES fails to OHKO and Dragonite is 2HKO'd by switching into a STAB move + Stone Edge. He is a check at best. The same applies to Lucario, only Lucario does less damage and can't switch into a STAB move. On top of this, Blaziken can afford to invest in HP now that he has speed boost, if he so chooses, to prevent that.

2: Blaziken is one of the few pokemon who doesn't fear ditto as much as most, if it works as is being theorised, because unless Ditto comes in when Blaziken is at +6, Blaziken gets a speed boost at the end of the turn, and now speed ties. (Unless scarf works differently to boosts, could someone confirm this for me?)

3: I don't like SD and NP sets even more than I dislike most setup sweepers. It is because when you set them up, people, even good players such as myself(so modest), feel obliged to stay in a do as much damage as possible so as not to waste the +2 boost. It just seems like a waste when you could just do damage with a mixed non boosting set, and either sweep late game, or do damage and get out, possibly with a kill in the progress.
 
Scarf does work differently to stage boosts. it is multiplicative to other stage boosts, while stage boosts are additive.

And if ditto switches in, he gets the speed boost ability as well, meaning that he also gets a boost at the end of the turn, and will always outspeed with scarf. So therefore no speed tie, regardless of what stage blaziken is at.
 
Speed boost really helps a reversal set. You can have a blaziken with liechi, and sub to 1 health, then reversal the shit out of everything.
 
I'm excited about this. I'm not going to overhype, but the new blaziken is going to be so much better. And now that its confirmed that Dream World abilities can be bred, we not only have swords dance/claw sharpen(to be safer on accuracy)/cheer up sets or mixed non boosting sets, but also endure reversal sets that don't need salac berry. This means one could use liechi berry or focus sash to gain even more advantage and use a move like swords dance when he would normally use endure. (and not revealing his identity as an endure/reversaler if fs doesn't activate) He can also hide behind protects and/or endures/subs if needed and baton pass a +2 bonus to attack and speed to just about any good sweeper to clean up the game. Plus other stuff I haven't thought of yet! I was mad when my favorite pokemon was 1uped by infernape, but the 5th generation put blaziken back on top. The best pokemon end up being sets that are either predictable and nigh unstoppable, or unpredictable with a bunch of varied potentially lethal options. I hope blaziken ends up filling one of these niches.
 
I think that both Blaziken and Infernape will be used. Reason being is that they are a tad different because of speed boost. As said before, Infernape has the immediate speed and is more of an immediate threat whereas Blaziken needs atleast 1 more turn to get more speed. Thats not to say that Blaziken and Infernape can't just both attack on the first turn and do hit and run tactics. Although they do pretty much the same thing, they may each have their own niche based on the sole reasons of speed now and speed later.
 
PK Gaming said:
So... Speed Boost Baton Pass Blaziken has been confirmed.


Get hyped.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79340&page=10
Click to expand...

Ninjask just basically got fucked. With Blaziken now able to do literally everything it ever could, and better (50% Stealth Rock Damage no more!), I see Ninjask falling to BL in a matter of weeks. The only thing Ninjask can do now compared to Blaziken is...use STAB U-Turn or Aerial Ace to deter Phazers? I'll take a Fire Blasting Baton Passer over that, any day.
 
In respose to the Cheer up vs. Claw Sharpen discussion, I am probably in favor of claw sharpen. If I am using 3 moves of questionable accuracy that could really benefit from a boost, I will take the boost in accuracy bacuse I love the certainty it carries with it. And statistically, if one is looking at the expected damage of a move, they should multiply the damage by the accuracy percentage. This is because Expected value = prob(success)value(success) + prob(fail)value(fail). A move with higher expected value is more like to do more dame over a long period of time. Even though I usually err on the safe side if it gets close, I find this formula to be helpful. Even after the formula is applied, the cheer set ends up doing more damage, but only slightly so.
 
MapleSandwich said:
Ninjask just basically got fucked. With Blaziken now able to do literally everything it ever could, and better (50% Stealth Rock Damage no more!), I see Ninjask falling to BL in a matter of weeks. The only thing Ninjask can do now compared to Blaziken is...use STAB U-Turn or Aerial Ace to deter Phazers? I'll take a Fire Blasting Baton Passer over that, any day.
Click to expand...

Oh how I long to see Blaziken on my team.

Blaze Kick
Claw Sharpen
Baton Pass
Protect

ohhhh yeaaaaah :D
 
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