How much minimum damage does Lee's Blaziken do with Hi Jump Kick to a 252/252 Swampert after one Swords Dance?
If it doesn't KO, how much does 2 HJKs do?
If it doesn't KO, how much does 2 HJKs do?
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Blaziken
- Thread starter manav95
- Start date
Ah, poor OP. He got banned. Anyways.
I can't find a Lee set with Swords Dance anywhere on this thread, but if you are aware of where it is, use this for Swampert: http://www.smogon.com/calc/
I assume this Blaziken is using Swords Dance + 252 Attack EVs + Adamant Nature + Life Orb, so here it goes:
+2 Blaziken @ Life Orb w/ 252 Attack Ev's + Adamant Nature Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Relaxed Swampert = 83.9% - 99%
You need a couple of Spikes to guarantee a kill on Swampert, assuming Swampert ever does use a physically defensive spread. Stealth Rock is required if you want a chance to OHKO Swampert. Obviously, you're going to 2HKO Swampert with Hi Jump Kick assuming minimum damage.
I can't find a Lee set with Swords Dance anywhere on this thread, but if you are aware of where it is, use this for Swampert: http://www.smogon.com/calc/
I assume this Blaziken is using Swords Dance + 252 Attack EVs + Adamant Nature + Life Orb, so here it goes:
+2 Blaziken @ Life Orb w/ 252 Attack Ev's + Adamant Nature Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Relaxed Swampert = 83.9% - 99%
You need a couple of Spikes to guarantee a kill on Swampert, assuming Swampert ever does use a physically defensive spread. Stealth Rock is required if you want a chance to OHKO Swampert. Obviously, you're going to 2HKO Swampert with Hi Jump Kick assuming minimum damage.
It didn't have Swords Dance. I got the idea to replace Hidden Power with Swords Dance and am using this as proof that Blaziken doesn't really need Hidden Power and benefits more from Swords Dance. Being able to 2HKO Swampert is really great even if it can't OHKO it.
By the time you get Blaziken out, you will probably be able to get at least one Swords Dance in.
When speed boost becomes available, will there any reason to use the blaze blazikens from the fourth gen?
Speed boost blaziken did lose a good few move tutor moves
Superpower (but can be replaced by hi jump kick)
thunder punch (used for coverage, will be missed.)
Vacuum Wave (blaziken still has quick attack, and it might not need priority so much with speed boost)
magic coat (might have been interesting to keep now that it reflects stealth rock)
Speed boost blaziken did lose a good few move tutor moves
Superpower (but can be replaced by hi jump kick)
thunder punch (used for coverage, will be missed.)
Vacuum Wave (blaziken still has quick attack, and it might not need priority so much with speed boost)
magic coat (might have been interesting to keep now that it reflects stealth rock)
None of the aforementioned moves are required due to the exitance of Stone Edge, Hi Jump Kick, Speed Boost, and Baton Pass to escape counters.
This is not the case. It could be that you switch Blaziken in and Swords Dance only to have ScarfChomp switch in and force you out immediately; you have accomplished nothing. Using Fire Blast or HJK right off the bat would have netted you some significant damage.
The issue is really how you want to use Blaziken; late-game sweeper or more of a mid-game wallbreaker.
I would blast and kick it first, just in case, and after it beats Garchomp, I would then do a victory dance with some swords after the wall has no other choice but to come in.
Besides, I would see it coming thanks to the fact that I see their party. I would only send it out after Breloom and Latios are incapacitated or ineffective.
Besides, I would see it coming thanks to the fact that I see their party. I would only send it out after Breloom and Latios are incapacitated or ineffective.
You're argument is basically "I would use prediction."
The fact is, SD Blaziken requires a turn of set-up to take out bulky grounds/waters/etc, while the Mix set does not. You can look up Lee's set for some calcs if you are still unconvinced; Pokemon like Slowbro and Swampert are much more easily dealt with compared to the SD set.
Now that Blaziken has all this speed and power at his disposal, not to mention the ability to pass it, a Mixed set sort of seems like a waste of his potential. Going for an outright sweep is both very tempting and very tangible. I think it is for this reason that most players opt for an SD set.
I don't disagree with this at all, I'm just pointing out that there are differences / advantages to each. Priority is even more rampant than it was last gen, notably in forms that Blaziken is either neutral or weak to (don't get me wrong, Bullet Punch is still around, but Mach Punch seems much more common), so setting up a SD is very heavily reliant on eliminating these threats.
Furthermore, Blaziken's ability to pass SD and Speed Boost may never be realized, as so far all DW event pokemon have been exclusively male. More likely than not, it'll be one or the other, not both.
Finally, MixKen is actually quite capable of sweeping on its own, but it doesn't really need SD to do it. SDKen doesn't really have the means to take on various threats, and functions best as the late-game sweeper once everything has been weakened (admittedly, they don't have to be weakened much). MixKen can come in throughout the match, fire off a Fire Blast or HJK every now and then, and then possibly even pull off a mini-sweep with its great coverage. Both have their uses, though I do admit that SDKen is personally more appealing to me.
The set I was talking about was Lee's set with SD instead of hidden power to make up for the Attack EVs put into Speed.
Is Hidden Power really that vital to Blaziken's ability to sweep, when it could just use its other moves, and maybe even get a Swords Dance in, or would that not work?
Is Hidden Power really that vital to Blaziken's ability to sweep, when it could just use its other moves, and maybe even get a Swords Dance in, or would that not work?
SD Blaziken is great, but how about Bulk Up? We all know how great boosting Attack, Defense, and Speed at once can be on a sweeper (I'm looking at you Ulgamoth).
Blaziken@ Wide Lens/Black Belt
Adamant
78HP/252Atk/180Spd
- Bulk Up
- Hi Jump Kick
- Blaze Kick
- Baton Pass/Shadow Claw/Stone Edge
This set sacrifices some power for survivability, making Blaziken a tough SOB to revenge kill.
After a Bulk Up, Max Attack Choice Banded Azumarill's Aqua Jet, the most threatening priority attack Blaziken will see, does 67.5- 79.3%.
HJK is primary STAB. Blaze Kick over Flare Blitz, as the latter ruins Blaziken's newfound survivability. BP allows Blaziken to escape bad situations and pass it's boosts to a teammate.
Shadow Claw grants perfect coverage, but Stone Edge is superior against the likes of Gyarados (too bad T-Punch is illegal with Speed Boost.)
180 Speed EVs allows it to outrun base 115's after a Speed Boost.
Blaziken@ Wide Lens/Black Belt
Adamant
78HP/252Atk/180Spd
- Bulk Up
- Hi Jump Kick
- Blaze Kick
- Baton Pass/Shadow Claw/Stone Edge
This set sacrifices some power for survivability, making Blaziken a tough SOB to revenge kill.
After a Bulk Up, Max Attack Choice Banded Azumarill's Aqua Jet, the most threatening priority attack Blaziken will see, does 67.5- 79.3%.
HJK is primary STAB. Blaze Kick over Flare Blitz, as the latter ruins Blaziken's newfound survivability. BP allows Blaziken to escape bad situations and pass it's boosts to a teammate.
Shadow Claw grants perfect coverage, but Stone Edge is superior against the likes of Gyarados (too bad T-Punch is illegal with Speed Boost.)
180 Speed EVs allows it to outrun base 115's after a Speed Boost.
I was thinking Blaziken's physical moves kick ass except they all have a chance to miss so why not run this set:
Blaziken@ lifeorb/blackbelt
Adamant
252attack/252speed
Claw Sharpen
Blaze Kick
High Jump Kick
stone Edge
after one claw sharpen w/ lifeorb
stone edge vs
Bulky dragon dance Gyarados (equal attack after intimidate) 85.9% - 101.6% so thats a OHKO after SR
252hp/252def Dragonite 93.8% - 110.4%OHKO after SR
I mean to me if Blaziken misses an attack than her sweep is over. So the increase in accuracy seriously up her game. Also HJK wont miss nor will blazekick.
Blaziken@ lifeorb/blackbelt
Adamant
252attack/252speed
Claw Sharpen
Blaze Kick
High Jump Kick
stone Edge
after one claw sharpen w/ lifeorb
stone edge vs
Bulky dragon dance Gyarados (equal attack after intimidate) 85.9% - 101.6% so thats a OHKO after SR
252hp/252def Dragonite 93.8% - 110.4%OHKO after SR
I mean to me if Blaziken misses an attack than her sweep is over. So the increase in accuracy seriously up her game. Also HJK wont miss nor will blazekick.
This has been said before, but Wide Lens + Swords Dance is more powerful, almost as accurate, and you don't take LO recoil, so it's pretty much superior.
A Focus Sash set should be put somewhere up there.
Blaziken (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Stone Edge/Hi Jump Kick
Guaranteed to get 1 SD up, as well as two Speed Boosts. He can then pass or deal massive amounts of damage with stab. Getting +2 in both Atk and Spd is absolutely great for any physical sweeper, and Blaziken is nearly guaranteed to get both. Yes sash is broken by Sandstorm, but BP teams basically rape stall regardless. Rarely every deal massive amounts of damage and usually pass anyways, since ken is so frail he's usually down to 1 hp by this time. Unless I face a team which clearly doesn't think i'm using a BP team and has a mischevious heart taunter as a lead.
Blaziken (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Stone Edge/Hi Jump Kick
Guaranteed to get 1 SD up, as well as two Speed Boosts. He can then pass or deal massive amounts of damage with stab. Getting +2 in both Atk and Spd is absolutely great for any physical sweeper, and Blaziken is nearly guaranteed to get both. Yes sash is broken by Sandstorm, but BP teams basically rape stall regardless. Rarely every deal massive amounts of damage and usually pass anyways, since ken is so frail he's usually down to 1 hp by this time. Unless I face a team which clearly doesn't think i'm using a BP team and has a mischevious heart taunter as a lead.
I tested Blaziken on PO and i have got to say that it is not a bad Pokemon..The metagame just needs to stabilize so this thing can rule.
I used a simple set of:
Blaziken Life Orb
Naive 252 Spe/ 240 Atk/ 16 SAtk
Speed Boost
-Baton Pass
-Stone Edge
-Fire Blast
-Hi Jump Kick
252 Spe is for that Basterd Shandera who is now always scarfed.Well most fo the time anyways.I have noticed that even without a boosting move this is the best set since it can sweep with just the three attacks once everything is weak and during the battle baton pass speed to counters.Blaziken is one hell of Pokemon even though there are Garchomps avoding Ice Beams everywhere and that basterd Shandera picking on choiced Pokemon.Even in these dark times Blaziken is a hell of a choice and i expect it ot be OU once the clearly Ubers are banned(freaking Garchomp and Shadow Tag Shandera..Immunites and Shadow Tag should never be in one Pokemon) or when Smogon's version of PO comes out and only released dream world Pokemon are available.In that invironment i see Blaziken easily top ten considering passing +1s so easily is just too damn awesome.
Anyways, anyone think of a good lead i can use?I have no lead.So far Choice Scarf Garcomp with Stealth Rock is the one i use.
I used a simple set of:
Blaziken Life Orb
Naive 252 Spe/ 240 Atk/ 16 SAtk
Speed Boost
-Baton Pass
-Stone Edge
-Fire Blast
-Hi Jump Kick
252 Spe is for that Basterd Shandera who is now always scarfed.Well most fo the time anyways.I have noticed that even without a boosting move this is the best set since it can sweep with just the three attacks once everything is weak and during the battle baton pass speed to counters.Blaziken is one hell of Pokemon even though there are Garchomps avoding Ice Beams everywhere and that basterd Shandera picking on choiced Pokemon.Even in these dark times Blaziken is a hell of a choice and i expect it ot be OU once the clearly Ubers are banned(freaking Garchomp and Shadow Tag Shandera..Immunites and Shadow Tag should never be in one Pokemon) or when Smogon's version of PO comes out and only released dream world Pokemon are available.In that invironment i see Blaziken easily top ten considering passing +1s so easily is just too damn awesome.
Anyways, anyone think of a good lead i can use?I have no lead.So far Choice Scarf Garcomp with Stealth Rock is the one i use.
This is all on paper, but here’s an idea.
Blaizken @ Life Orb
252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Hp
Adamant Nature
Speed Boost
--Protect
--Swords Dance
--Hi Jump Kick
--Stone Edge
I like this set because it solves some of the problems of the original swords dace set by using protect for an extra speed boost. Basically, you’re goal is to get this in on something that will switch out, swords dance on the switch, then use protect to gain +2 Attack and +2 Speed, solving the problem of choice scarfers.
Without a speed beneficial nature, the extra speed boost puts you at 568, making you faster than everything except +1 Ninjask and +2 Kingdra according to speed tiers. Heck, you could even lower the speed EV’s without causing yourself a problem. Ghosts and priority attacks are still an issue, but this thing gives choice scarfers who think they’re going to revenge a big surprise and gives you the ability to scout the priority move and switch appropriately. You also give up a fire attack, but that hardly matters because you want the threat to switch out and because fighting/rock is a good enough attack combination to take care of most things with the +2 attack boost. This thing is basically a late-game sweeper, best played when you know your opponents team already.
Blaizken @ Life Orb
252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Hp
Adamant Nature
Speed Boost
--Protect
--Swords Dance
--Hi Jump Kick
--Stone Edge
I like this set because it solves some of the problems of the original swords dace set by using protect for an extra speed boost. Basically, you’re goal is to get this in on something that will switch out, swords dance on the switch, then use protect to gain +2 Attack and +2 Speed, solving the problem of choice scarfers.
Without a speed beneficial nature, the extra speed boost puts you at 568, making you faster than everything except +1 Ninjask and +2 Kingdra according to speed tiers. Heck, you could even lower the speed EV’s without causing yourself a problem. Ghosts and priority attacks are still an issue, but this thing gives choice scarfers who think they’re going to revenge a big surprise and gives you the ability to scout the priority move and switch appropriately. You also give up a fire attack, but that hardly matters because you want the threat to switch out and because fighting/rock is a good enough attack combination to take care of most things with the +2 attack boost. This thing is basically a late-game sweeper, best played when you know your opponents team already.
The only problem with Blaziken at this point is predictability. 90% of Blazikens Protect first (some Sword Dance), so I never bother attacking and switch to my counter right away. Gliscor is an amazing counter who you can Taunt/Toxic/EQ/Acrobat with no issues. There's always Ditto of course, Burungeru for the HJK miss, and things with Aqua Jet. Dragonite works well to with Marvel Scale and resisting both STABs, and many carry Extremespeed. And finally there's Mischievous Heart users.
Blaziken is deadly, you just can't be overzealous with him like I see a lot of people on PO being. I think his safest and best bet is a late game sweeper after many counters are gone. Or, say, switch into a Nattorei to scare and then do a Baton Pass set.
Blaziken is deadly, you just can't be overzealous with him like I see a lot of people on PO being. I think his safest and best bet is a late game sweeper after many counters are gone. Or, say, switch into a Nattorei to scare and then do a Baton Pass set.
Blaziken doesn't have "many" counters, since he can theoretically beat just about anything. I've had this guy reverse a sweep on Rain teams, for goodness's sake.
But like you pointed out, predictability is a big issue right now. Most Blaziken have Protect, and players don't hesitate to spam it the first chance they get, giving you enough time to counteract.
However, 90% of battles would end a lot quicker if players would stop being greedy with the speed, set up on the switch, and go for a sweep. I don't even remember the last time I've been in danger of a Blaziken sweep, as a lot of people would rather Baton Pass to something not quite as threatening. Pity, really.
But like you pointed out, predictability is a big issue right now. Most Blaziken have Protect, and players don't hesitate to spam it the first chance they get, giving you enough time to counteract.
However, 90% of battles would end a lot quicker if players would stop being greedy with the speed, set up on the switch, and go for a sweep. I don't even remember the last time I've been in danger of a Blaziken sweep, as a lot of people would rather Baton Pass to something not quite as threatening. Pity, really.
I never said many, so I'm not sure what part of my post you're contradicting. Blaziken doesn't have many counters in terms of quantity, but the counters it does have are becoming regularly popular, like Burungeru or Sand Throw Doryuzuu.
I agree, they seem to try to get a +2 at least in speed before doing much. This gives me more time to prepare my countermeasure, of which I have a few. My Gliscor isn't threatened by anything a common Blaziken carries, I have a Mach Punch Roopushin, and a Mischievous Heart Borotorosu if need be.
I agree, they seem to try to get a +2 at least in speed before doing much. This gives me more time to prepare my countermeasure, of which I have a few. My Gliscor isn't threatened by anything a common Blaziken carries, I have a Mach Punch Roopushin, and a Mischievous Heart Borotorosu if need be.
Blaziken is awesome.
I run just enough speed to outspeed dorry with +3, and often find time to SD on a random attack which it can survive. Then, unless somebody is ballsy enough to switch doryuuzu in on a protect, it will get to +3 speed. The only real walls it has are burungeru and maybe gliscor, but prior damage will wreck them. Also, it's one of the few sweepers that beats ditto, because +2 blaze kick fails to KO and protect beats ditto that use HJK (switch to a ghost after or something)
I run just enough speed to outspeed dorry with +3, and often find time to SD on a random attack which it can survive. Then, unless somebody is ballsy enough to switch doryuuzu in on a protect, it will get to +3 speed. The only real walls it has are burungeru and maybe gliscor, but prior damage will wreck them. Also, it's one of the few sweepers that beats ditto, because +2 blaze kick fails to KO and protect beats ditto that use HJK (switch to a ghost after or something)