-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Blissey
- Thread starter Mario With Lasers
- Start date
This might seem a tad irrelevant, but Blissey's higher special attack means that it can use moves like Ice Beam and Flamethrower effectively, while Chansey cannot. Just something to keep in mind. This also allows it to deal with some of the new Taunters and MH users more effectively than Chansey, which can only Seismic Toss. Ice Beam is SE against all of the new MH pokemon, IIRC, so that is actually pretty useful.
Not the Dark Cat thing. But he's pretty much outclassed by Erufuun.
Anyway, I've been using Blissey on my teams (Standard WishPasser) and I can say that she is very helpful. I usually can stall many things out with Toxic + Wish + Protect, and her Wish Passing is very helpful for my team, especially Nattorei. (who doesn't have reliable recovery) Being able to use Leftovers is really helpful, since I have Protect to essentially gain a free 12% every 2 turns.
Yeah, Wish passing is one of the best things Blissey can do. I've also noticed that Leftovers really helps with stalling, but that could be offset by Chansey's higher defenses.
It seems to me that Chancey is just plain easier to grind down than Blissey thanks to a lack of leftovers. Each time they switch in Blissey is down 6% to SR while Chancey is down 12%. If there is Sandstorm or Hail Blissey remains stable while Chansey loses 6% a turn. Blissey loses less Hp total a turn to poison/burn than Chansey. Any time the enemy does not attack Blissey with a damage move (due to switching or using status or recovery or entry hazards) she gains back another 6% and every turn she Protects she gains 6%. Chansey on the other hand must heal herself at some point or she will die, and while her defenses are better they need to be better (thanks to those free heals Blissey gets that I mentioned).
Add to this Blissey having a wider selection of viable moves (she could potentially use something like Ice Beam or Flamethrower to some effect) and the option of Shed Shell if the meta moves that way, and I think Blissey still comes out on top.
Add to this Blissey having a wider selection of viable moves (she could potentially use something like Ice Beam or Flamethrower to some effect) and the option of Shed Shell if the meta moves that way, and I think Blissey still comes out on top.
Are you sure? I've not used Counter Blissey since advance, but I used Counter Chansey in UU a few months ago, and it survived a surprising amount. I have fond memories of people switching Dugtrio in to KO Chansey, only for her to survive Dugtrio's Earthquake, and OHKO it back. :D
But hitting Blissey with a non-boosted non-fighting move generally doesn't do enough for Counter to KO; +0 Adamant Dory EQ does 45.5% - 53.8% to Blissey, and that's probably the strongest hit Blissey'll take, outside of an Outrage. And yes, Chansey can take an Infernape CC.
EDIT: lol I forgot Counter does HP, not percentage. Yeah, Counter could work, but I've never found it to be too successful; most physical attackers just stat up on Blissey, after which they can OHKO.
EDIT: lol I forgot Counter does HP, not percentage. Yeah, Counter could work, but I've never found it to be too successful; most physical attackers just stat up on Blissey, after which they can OHKO.
Scared for what?
Blissey will just get killed next turn, the amount of damage dealt is too much for the chick to soft boiled over.
Max Attack Infernape's CC does 89.8% - 106% to max/max Chansey (not all of them will be using that), so it can KO. That other calc was from Nape's NP set. And of course Blaziken always OHKOs with Hi Jump Kick.
yeah, but I mean if a stab cc barely does more than 50%, then even some non-stab super powers from stuff like mamoswine or wargle won't be able to keep up with it. Even a non-stab fighting move from a strong attacker will be enough, you'll need to have stab physical fighting on your team.
This viewpoint is becoming more and more outdated and irrelevant...5th gen's on PO, a lot of people are playing it, and it's silly to outright ignore on the simple say-so of a handful of people.
And besides, Blissey not changing isn't really important. What really matters is that the playing field is drastically different this time around and heavily offensive to boot. Her niche this time around is probably going to be similar to that of Chansey's in 4th gen UU: she may be the best at what she does, but at the price of being massive setup bait for many of the metagame's top offensive/defensive Pokemon.
I should make this my quote:
I'm sick of every Pokemon and every set being measured for how it can take on Shandera. I'm sick of it. For one, Shandera hasn't even been released!! Number two, we don't even know tiers yet, so we don't even know if it will be allowed. Finally, its just plain annoying. Someone can come out with a great set, and then the next post will be "yeah, too bad it will never actually work because it loses to shandera"
I'm sick of every Pokemon and every set being measured for how it can take on Shandera. I'm sick of it. For one, Shandera hasn't even been released!! Number two, we don't even know tiers yet, so we don't even know if it will be allowed. Finally, its just plain annoying. Someone can come out with a great set, and then the next post will be "yeah, too bad it will never actually work because it loses to shandera"
We weren't really talking about Shanderaa at all on this page, until SJCrew made that point about PO having implemented Shadow Tag already. Also, SubCM Shanderaa sucks; and Blissey can wall Choice sets easily.
@SJCrew: Blissey's access to Ice Beam and other good offensive moves means that it will never be as much setup bait as Chansey was. However, due to the the plethora of of new physical threats, as well as sturdy special attackers like Urugamosu, Blissey will definitely be more a liability than it was last gen.
@SJCrew: Blissey's access to Ice Beam and other good offensive moves means that it will never be as much setup bait as Chansey was. However, due to the the plethora of of new physical threats, as well as sturdy special attackers like Urugamosu, Blissey will definitely be more a liability than it was last gen.
Well, Blissey can protect, which means heavy damage for Blaziken.
maybe gamefreak has just been trying to get the attackers of the game over skarmbliss for 3 gens... that would explain all the mixed stat spread fire/ftg's...
btw this thread is about blissey not shanderaa beating blissey. just sayin...
btw this thread is about blissey not shanderaa beating blissey. just sayin...
And is then KOd next turn. Blissey would much rather switch out against Blaziken.
Everyone is saying that Shadow Tag Shandera will kill Blissey. Well, first of all, most people I've battled use Flash Fire over Shadow Tag, so in most cases you could just switch out. Second, Shandera has five weaknesses, Water, Ground, Rock, Dark, Ghost. Those are the most common attacking types in the game (besides fighting and fire, which it is immune to) Third, it ain't that bulky. I mean 60/90/90 is decent, but who would put EVs into those stats? I usually 2-3HKO it with a neutral attack, and 1HKO it with one of its many weaknesses.
Shandera isn't that good. Sure, 427 max sp attack is great, but Marowak has 568 attack, and it was in NU last gen. Even Medicham is more powerful, and it can work off a 205 power Hi Jump Kick. Let me ask you, how can a special attacker stop Blissey? Medicham and Marowak completely pwn Blissey (of course, Game Freak decided not to give them Shadow Tag), and all Shandera can do is calm mind. Why not just use psych up and shadow ball/ hp ground?
Shandera isn't that good. Sure, 427 max sp attack is great, but Marowak has 568 attack, and it was in NU last gen. Even Medicham is more powerful, and it can work off a 205 power Hi Jump Kick. Let me ask you, how can a special attacker stop Blissey? Medicham and Marowak completely pwn Blissey (of course, Game Freak decided not to give them Shadow Tag), and all Shandera can do is calm mind. Why not just use psych up and shadow ball/ hp ground?
Why does everyone continue to babble about Shandera? I thought this was the Blissey thread?
"Shandera is a special attacker so its relevant lol."
Yeah we get it. Blissey can be trapped; catch in on the switch with Toxic or Thunder Wave. Otherwise, run Shed Shell like Skarmory has had to for the past generation. It really isn't that difficult.
I'd much rather talk about other special threats that can get past Blissey, both old and new.
-Lucario: With Nasty Plot in its arsenal, Blissey is easily 2HKOd by +2 Aura Sphere - Calm 252/252 Blissey, that is. Lucario really doesn't need much more, with Shadow Ball giving it perfect coverage and STAB Vacuum Wave for priority.
-Voltolos: This pokemon actually has a one-third chance to 2HKO Blissey after Stealth Rock and Lefties by using a +2 Timid LO Thunderbolt. If that isn't enough for you though, simply change the nature to Naive and run Hammer Arm, which will always 2HKO 252/252 Bold Blissey.
-Kerudio: The Water/Fighting type pony laughs in Blissey's face, obliterating the pink blob with a +1 Sword of Mystery, which hits Bliss's defense stat but runs off of Kerudio's SpA. It doesn't even need a boosting item to do so, letting it supplement its bulk and resistances with the Leftovers item.
-Azelf: A Life Orb and Nasty Plot allows Azelf to OHKO 252/252 Bold Blissey 74% of the time with Psycho Shock, assuming Stealth Rock. The powerful pixie no longer needs to blow itself up to take it out, and it gives the Nasty Plot set new life and use.
Those are just a few others; Shell Break rain sweepers, Solar Power SpecsZard, and more are all capable of inflicting severe damage on the blob. It looks like Blissey is becoming more and more of a liability with each generation that goes by. I wonder whether a specially defensive EV spread will become the standard, since physical sweepers are plowing through it regardless.
"Shandera is a special attacker so its relevant lol."
Yeah we get it. Blissey can be trapped; catch in on the switch with Toxic or Thunder Wave. Otherwise, run Shed Shell like Skarmory has had to for the past generation. It really isn't that difficult.
I'd much rather talk about other special threats that can get past Blissey, both old and new.
-Lucario: With Nasty Plot in its arsenal, Blissey is easily 2HKOd by +2 Aura Sphere - Calm 252/252 Blissey, that is. Lucario really doesn't need much more, with Shadow Ball giving it perfect coverage and STAB Vacuum Wave for priority.
-Voltolos: This pokemon actually has a one-third chance to 2HKO Blissey after Stealth Rock and Lefties by using a +2 Timid LO Thunderbolt. If that isn't enough for you though, simply change the nature to Naive and run Hammer Arm, which will always 2HKO 252/252 Bold Blissey.
-Kerudio: The Water/Fighting type pony laughs in Blissey's face, obliterating the pink blob with a +1 Sword of Mystery, which hits Bliss's defense stat but runs off of Kerudio's SpA. It doesn't even need a boosting item to do so, letting it supplement its bulk and resistances with the Leftovers item.
-Azelf: A Life Orb and Nasty Plot allows Azelf to OHKO 252/252 Bold Blissey 74% of the time with Psycho Shock, assuming Stealth Rock. The powerful pixie no longer needs to blow itself up to take it out, and it gives the Nasty Plot set new life and use.
Those are just a few others; Shell Break rain sweepers, Solar Power SpecsZard, and more are all capable of inflicting severe damage on the blob. It looks like Blissey is becoming more and more of a liability with each generation that goes by. I wonder whether a specially defensive EV spread will become the standard, since physical sweepers are plowing through it regardless.
one problem with chansey, 35 base special attack........., that means your limited to sizemic toss.