SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps

[Worldie]

Snow Cloak would've been better actually. Snow Cloak needs hail support which isn't the best thing in a 3v3 scenario (this Articuno is a nightmare on singles 3v3 battle tower format), whereas Pressure stalls you out of PP quicker without any previous support. This Articuno moveset is nasty too. Ice Beam spam is effective as an standalone move, and it'll freeze you for sure, because we all know how the hax is in the tower and other facilities. Bright Powder is broken and should be banned from the games and after a Double Team boost, if the game really wants to, you lose right there.

Despite its typing Articuno is bulky enough to withstand some flamethrowers are you are not hitting F-Blast, Stone Edge or Rock Slide on this one. Sure not. And your Scizor will be either frozen or sheer colded.

I take you've never actually played facilities properly, as I said, that is a set that isnt remotely as terrifying as some other bullshit Battle tree had.
Looking at you Ezra with your smug smile

In fact if it wasnt for the format memes, even SwSh Battle Tower had some pretty ridicolous sets that you'd have just cried against if the mode had streaks and there wasnt the dynamax disadvantage. Nothing quite like seeing Ditto or Shedinja and having to gamble on which of 6 items they have....

 

[Balanced Freakmons]

Snow Cloak would've been worse actually. Snow Cloak needs hail support which isn't the best thing in a 3v3 scenario (this Articuno is a nightmare on singles 3v3 battle tower format), whereas Pressure stalls you out of PP quicker without any previous support. This Articuno moveset is nasty too. Ice Beam spam is effective as an standalone move, and it'll freeze you for sure, because we all know how the hax is in the tower and other facilities. Bright Powder is broken and should be banned from the games and after a Double Team boost, if the game really wants to, you lose right there.

Despite its typing Articuno is bulky enough to withstand some flamethrowers are you are not hitting F-Blast, Stone Edge or Rock Slide on this one. Sure not. And your Scizor will be either frozen or sheer colded.

I always thought that in a Tower facility context, evasion moves/abilities/items are a complete bullshit. Such facilities are supposed to evaluate your battle strats and skills, and introducing that kind of strategy just feels unfair and just makes luck mind-games perform on a stage where the teams skill strategy should have the spotlight. Evasion has no skill.

 

[Sirya]

I take you've never actually played facilities properly, as I said, that is a set that isnt remotely as terrifying as some other bullshit Battle tree had.
Looking at you Ezra with your smug smile
View attachment 384350

In fact if it wasnt for the format memes, even SwSh Battle Tower had some pretty ridicolous sets that you'd have just cried against if the mode had streaks and there wasnt the dynamax disadvantage. Nothing quite like seeing Ditto or Shedinja and having to gamble on which of 6 items they have....

I take you should never talk about another random guy on the Internet wihtout knowing anything about said person, and thats the reason why im interchanging oppinions about the game without addresing you personally.

I've beaten every battle facility in the main series and just about 2 o 3 months ago I finished again all the gold symbols in Pokémon Emerald, sharing here the full playthrough through the Battle Factory and making a long post about its infame sets and my general thoughts.

You didn't say anything about that set not being as terryfing as others, you said that the set would've been better if Articuno ran Snow Cloak and that is objectively false. Snow Cloak needs hail support which Articuno doesn't have by itself and if it is running hail, its hurt by 4MSS. That means your only real option of achieving that goal is putting an Abomasnow in the team, and that hurts the team composition as a whole, therefor making the battle easier.

Bright Powder + Double Team is all you need to make the player lose any battle without a precise counterstrategy, and thats how half of the mons (im looking at you, aids Umbreon) on Pokémon Emerald are presented. In fact, you don't even need Double Team at all; bright powder itself is enough for the game to make you lose if it wants to. The fact that it doesn't have hail, but Double Team + Roost, means it synergizes even better with Pressure, stalling you out of PP quicker, and it left Articuno with 2 offensive moves in Ice Beam, which serves as an actual serious way of dealing damage and can freezehax you, and Sheer Cold, which we all know how it works in the battle tower/facilities.

Every single real threat on the facilities have always have either bright powder + double team, or OHKO moves + quick claw + double team. Stop assuming things, and even more if you are wrong.

 

[Balanced Freakmons]

Oh, I noted that there are no Mira, Marley, Riley, Buck and Cheryl rematch battles like in Platinum :(

 

[Worldie]

snip

Sure sir, I would point you that "beating a facility" is slightly different than actually trying to get streaks on them.
You can bruteforce the 50 wins (expecially in singles lol), slightly different is to actually try for more. I don't recall seeing you in the facility discord ever when I was in there, nor I recall a single streak from you on the leaderboards.

I also recommend you to calm down and take a deep breath cause you see personal attacks where there aren't.

 

[Sirya]

Sure sir, I would point you that "beating a facility" is slightly different than actually trying to get streaks on them.
You can bruteforce the 50 wins (expecially in singles lol), slightly different is to actually try for more. I don't recall seeing you in the facility discord ever when I was in there, nor I recall a single streak from you on the leaderboards.

I also recommend you to calm down and take a deep breath cause you see personal attacks where there aren't.

I am not on any Discord related to Pokémon or other games, so you won't remember me nor now or ever, and that doesn't mean anything.

Hail + Snow Cloak doesn't contribute to anything in a 1v1 scenario, since Hail provides unnecesary chip damage that you don't need (as in Sheer Cold) and gives you +1 evp, while just double teaming does the exact same thing but permanentely until death (its not changing). An hyphotetical Hail + Ice Beam + Sheer Cold + Roost, is objectively inferior to Doble Team + Ice Beam + Sheer Cold + Roost, and the second lets you not only not be weather dependant, but raise your evp even higher if you want to while PP stalling the opponent. There's no denying in this and this wont change no matter in how many Discords you are. And btw, yes, I've actively done streaks.

I would recommend you to actually fight logic with logic instead of making vague assumptions based on arbitrary criteria about someone you don't know anything about.

 

[Worldie]

I always thought that in a Tower facility context, evasion moves/abilities/items are a complete bullshit. Such facilities are supposed to evaluate your battle strats and skills, and introducing that kind of strategy just feels unfair and just makes luck mind-games perform on a stage where the teams skill strategy should have the spotlight. Evasion has no skill.

Sorta, by the way.

The bigger challenge of Facilities is being able to create a consistent team with limited options.
The existance of streaks that go in the thousands show it is indeed possible to do so.
These compositions do take in assumption bullshit like evasion, crits, bad matchups, etc.
Usually the hundred-thousand streaks die to a combination of multiple bad RNG elements going off at same time.

If anything, they still do prove skills. In teambuilding and decision making.

Besides, Gen 7 inherently had a easier time dealing with evasion hax as Z-moves ignore evasion boosts.

 

[Siggu]

I always thought that in a Tower facility context, evasion moves/abilities/items are a complete bullshit. Such facilities are supposed to evaluate your battle strats and skills, and introducing that kind of strategy just feels unfair and just makes luck mind-games perform on a stage where the teams skill strategy should have the spotlight. Evasion has no skill.

That's why I really appreciated that they did away with streak-based rewards in the Sword and Shield Battle Tower.

Unfortunately, they goofed up everywhere else (including the rewards themselves, which reach a cap way too quickly).

 

[Balanced Freakmons]

Sorta, by the way.

The bigger challenge of Facilities is being able to create a consistent team with limited options.
The existance of streaks that go in the thousands show it is indeed possible to do so.
These compositions do take in assumption bullshit like evasion, crits, bad matchups, etc.
Usually the hundred-thousand streaks die to a combination of multiple bad RNG elements going off at same time.

If anything, they still do prove skills. In teambuilding and decision making.

Besides, Gen 7 inherently had a easier time dealing with evasion hax as Z-moves ignore evasion boosts.

Yeah, what I meant is that the evasion strats are the kind of stuff that makes you lose just "bcz yes". The game literally says "I want you to lose". Normal RNG is fine, and it's natural that over a large number of battles it is a crucial factor, either in a ladder format or facility streak format. Everything that influences RNG pushing it to insane adverse levels it is what is wrong (like brightpowder, or double team, or even the 2 combined).

 

[Siggu]

By the way, upon checking on the encounter tables, I noticed, on the JSON file, that they've been so adamant to copy how DP worked that there are entries called gbaSapp, gbaRuby, gbaEme, gbaFire, and gbaLeaf, even though, of course, the dual-slot feature does not exist here.

That being said... a ROM Hacker might find these extra, unused encounter tables useful.

 

[Worldie]

Yeah, what I meant is that the evasion strats are the kind of stuff that makes you lose just "bcz yes". The game literally says "I want you to lose". Normal RNG is fine, and it's natural that over a large number of battles it is a crucial factor, either in a ladder format or facility streak format. Everything that influences RNG pushing it to insane adverse levels it is what is wrong (like brightpowder, or double team, or even the 2 combined).

Yeah don't get me wrong, I dont inherently disagree with you, I hate evasion spam and stupid full 70% accurate sets as well, but there is no denying that they do have counterplay and we're just too lazy (or in my case, too bad at the game) to actually deal with them.

Pokemon is already a inherently RNG based game anyway so there's a limit to how much skill expression there can be in game where 90% of the attacks and abilities in the game have "chance to" factors without even accounting for crits, hence why large majority of the skill expression comes from the teambuilding process.

 

[Balanced Freakmons]

Yeah don't get me wrong, I dont inherently disagree with you, I hate evasion spam and stupid full 70% accurate sets as well, but there is no denying that they do have counterplay and we're just too lazy (or in my case, too bad at the game) to actually deal with them.

Pokemon is already a inherently RNG based game anyway so there's a limit to how much skill expression there can be in game where 90% of the attacks and abilities in the game have "chance to" factors without even accounting for crits, hence why large majority of the skill expression comes from the teambuilding process.

Yeah, I understood :)


Also, how Cynthia goes from Nasty Plot + special set to No Nasty Plot + special set to a Full Physical set in the final rematch it's so incredible. The girl changes her lucario's set more than a person changes clothes a day

 

[Revelation]

Did we ever find out how move relearning works in the games???

 

[richi3f]

I have looked at the encounter tables to find which Pokémon are unobtainable.

Excluding fossils, special encounters (e.g., Drifloon, Rotom), and gift Pokémon (e.g., Riolu), the following Pokémon do not appear in any encounter table, so the only way to obtain them would be via in-game gift (AFAIK there isn't a list for this yet), event (there was a Tangrowth event in D/P), and/or special mechanic (Feebas was only catchable in 4 fishing spots in Mt. Coronet):

• Starters
• Tangela, Tangrowth
• Feebas, Milotic
• Tropius

Excepting Feebas, these Pokémon were not obtainable in the original D/P games. It makes sense to keep starters until Pokémon HOME compatibility allows transfers, but I am really puzzled by the exclusion of Tropius and (most notably) Tangela (who got an evolution in Gen IV)/Tangrowth (who we've seen in the trailers). Perhaps an oversight that will be fixed on the day-1 patch?

I am also terrified at the prospect of Feebas being locked under the crazy fishing spot mechanic. I am guessing this feature is still in, but coded differently so it is not reflected on the encounter table. Oh my, back in the day I spent hours trying to catch Feebas and I never succeeded. The only one I ever got was hacked using an Action Replay. Ugh, this is the worst mechanic in the games.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

what did I wake up to.

is this...life?

THEY MADE BERTHA ACTUALLY DIFFICULT.

also the mad devs made YacheChomp with Swords Dance a reality.

this game is bonkers, I think I'm gonna actually get it now.

We'll have to wait and see if it tops Gen 5 for me though. I'm not holding my breath, but a truly excellent modern Pokemon game would definitely be a breath of fresh air.

 

[Ironmage]

Well, that put my interest up a lot.

I don't actually consider the one-move choice sets to be full memes. The AI is known to choose moves randomly if they have multiple moves that can KO, which is not ideal on a choice set. I've used a lower move count to counterbalance that before when going through the Battle Palace, though I did have two (earthquake and rock slide) rather than only one.

I'm pretty sure the Banette on Fantina's rematch(?) was supposed to know Phantom Force and not Shadow force since the line actually learned that in gens 6 and 7. Or maybe the set writer was upset they didn't get to run Poltergeist and picked the strongest Ghost move available (would Poltergeist even be a good idea for an ingame opponent with how many casuals don't run items on most mons?).

 

[Siggu]

It's interesting that they actually bothered to give Pokémon with no physical moves an Attack IV of 0.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Wait, what? It doesn't start with the Lake or Rage/Red Gyarados report?

No, that's in.

I'm talking about the title screen one.

 

[The Crusade]

...but I am really puzzled by the exclusion of Tropius and (most notably) Tangela (who got an evolution in Gen IV)/Tangrowth (who we've seen in the trailers). Perhaps an oversight that will be fixed on the day-1 patch?

Wow, it really is an accurate remake. For those unaware, Tangela was completely excluded from classic DP too. Why they engineered a new evolution for a monster that doesn't even appear in the game is beyond me—Tangrowth was virtually unobtainable without (1) a Surf-capable FRLG save file, (2) Pal Park access in the DP postgame, and (3) a guidebook to point out the esoteric role of AncientPower in evolving it. At least Munchlax existed somewhere in Sinnoh (tree). Tangela just... didn't.

And apparently, if your list is accurate, the wise guys at ILCA are okay with things staying that way.

 

[Sirya]

I woulnd't say its lazyness. Any team that wants to reach streaks on the thousands have to rely on stagnating team compos, normaly relying in trick choice abusse followed by subs + anything that either boosts you or cripples the opponent to the point where every battle is 100% safe due to a combinacion of opposing AI limitations, inmunity to crits in the recepier (via shell armor, for instance), sturdy prior to gen 5 or a combination of all of this (+ flash, minimize, thief, memento and any kind of crippling you can think of). No balance team will ever reach an incredibly long streak if it dont eventually revolves around stall (which is significantly different here than in normal battling, because in this format you can allow to have just 1 pokemon that does all the insane crippling helped by other 2 instead of a full stall team), and that partially happens because of the sheer pressence of hax, normally in the form of ohko moves or evasion shenanigans. As a result of this, streaks on factory tend to be significantly shorter than in facilites that allow you to use this playstyle.

 

[Imperial Magala]

Some people believe these are NPC Dawn/Lucas teamsets, with the main pieces of evidence being the presence of Sinnoh starter aces and the last teamset.

If some of these Pokemon seem familiar, its because their apparently based on Dawn's anime team.

Move over Pachirisu, we need a Grass/Fire/Water core.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

It's interesting that they actually bothered to give Pokémon with no physical moves an Attack IV of 0.

OK, which one of ya'll did they hire to do these, fess up!

 

[Siggu]

OK, which one of ya'll did they hire to do these, fess up!

Isn't it funny, though? USUM and BDSP are the main series games with the most thoughtful teams... and (not so) coincidentally, those games had little involvement from the Game Freak veterans.

Perhaps it's time they left the teambuilding for someone else.

 

[PokemonTrainerLui]

Since when does Mr.Mime learn Power Whip?

 

[Siggu]

Since when does Mr.Mime learn Power Whip?

That's... new, actually.

How does it use the move, though? Does it pretend to use a whip? Or does it get an actual whip?