BSS Teambuilding & Help Thread (SuMo Edition Reloaded 2.0)

Hello there Smogon community, this is my first team in a long time and ive worked really hard on it. Now, im not the greatest player, or an expert on the game, ive simply been playing pokemon for years, as well as other deck building RPG's. Considering my lack of knowledge when it comes to the super effective chart, I think this deck has been performing awfully well for me, with terrific coverage and tempo when played carefully. Anyway, heres the team:

IMPORTANT!!! I have been practicing in OU on pokemon showdown, so maybe the results will differ once brought into the battle spot.


mega_latios_by_theangryaron-d6slzqg.png
Latté (Latios-Mega) @ Latiosite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power
- Energy Ball

Energy Ball hits consistent threats/switch in's, such as Ash Greninja. I've ruined people's day with this move...


Zapdos.png
The Chair (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hidden Power Grass
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Roost

HP Grass, again more useful than any other hidden power, ive found, for taking out the consistent threats that zapdos has been facing.


landorus_sacred_beast_forme_by_xous54-d528mrm.png
Dirt (Landorus-Therian) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Defog
- Explosion

Should be pretty self explanatory... Fly + Flyinium Z is never not useful for me. Explosion, instead of U-turn, stone edge, and knock off.


terrakion_by_xous54-d37tnid.png
Terra (Terrakion) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head

Great set, Steelium Z allowing Terrakion to stand up to, or even OHKO what he normally couldn't. Iron head still being a useful coverage move for my team, even once the steelium z has been used up.


magnezone_by_hardvector-d3h2pi4.png
Big Glock (Magnezone) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion

Hidden Power Water, another day ruiner of a move. explosion + focus sash because i found that everything else lacked "umph" and magnezone was getting wasted away too easily, without making a real dent. This could just be because i suck tho haha


shiny_clefable_global_link_art_by_trainerparshen-d6t9ltg.png
Fable (Clefable) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 200 HP / 52 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Standard as fuck. EV spread to even out the defenses, i dont know if this is a good idea or not...

Sorry for the short analysis. Like i said, i am no pro, and i took a break for a while before coming back to competitive play, recently. I feel most of this is standard, if not self explanatory, however, and i am only looking to see what people think, and learn a thing or two, while maybe bettering my team before i get it in-game. Anyway's, thank you all ahead of time for any attention you give this post, and any responses you share with me :) Let the critique, begin!
 
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Psynergy

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Hello there Smogon community, this is my first team in a long time and ive worked really hard on it. Now, im not the greatest player, or an expert on the game, ive simply been playing pokemon for years, as well as other deck building RPG's. Considering my lack of knowledge when it comes to the super effective chart, I think this deck has been performing awfully well for me, with terrific coverage and tempo when played carefully. Anyway, heres the team:

IMPORTANT!!! I have been practicing in OU on pokemon showdown, so maybe the results will differ once brought into the battle spot.


View attachment 123014
Latté (Latios-Mega) @ Latiosite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power
- Energy Ball

Energy Ball hits consistent threats/switch in's, such as Ash Greninja. I've ruined people's day with this move...


View attachment 123018
The Chair (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hidden Power Grass
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Roost

HP Grass, again more useful than any other hidden power, ive found, for taking out the consistent threats that zapdos has been facing.


View attachment 123017
Dirt (Landorus-Therian) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Defog
- Explosion

Should be pretty self explanatory... Fly + Flyinium Z is never not useful for me. Explosion, instead of U-turn, stone edge, and knock off.


View attachment 123019
Terra (Terrakion) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head

Great set, Steelium Z allowing Terrakion to stand up to, or even OHKO what he normally couldn't. Iron head still being a useful coverage move for my team, even once the steelium z has been used up.


View attachment 123016
Big Glock (Magnezone) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion

Hidden Power Water, another day ruiner of a move. explosion + focus sash because i found that everything else lacked "umph" and magnezone was getting wasted away too easily, without making a real dent. This could just be because i suck tho haha


View attachment 123015
Fable (Clefable) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 200 HP / 52 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Standard as fuck. EV spread to even out the defenses, i dont know if this is a good idea or not...

Sorry for the short analysis. Like i said, i am no pro, and i took a break for a while before coming back to competitive play, recently. I feel most of this is standard, if not self explanatory, however, and i am only looking to see what people think, and learn a thing or two, while maybe bettering my team before i get it in-game. Anyway's, thank you all ahead of time for any attention you give this post, and any responses you share with me :) Let the critique, begin!
Hi! Moved this here since we have an existing thread for team help. First off let me state that PS actually has a ladder for BSS and I would recommend trying that ladder for testing before jumping onto the 3DS ladder, BSS and OU are actually very different so the OU ladder honestly isn't going to be too helpful here. The mention of Ash Greninja tells me you're probably not super familiar with the rules of BSS since it's actually not a legal Pokemon here, so I'd highly suggest reading this short introduction real quick.

As for the team itself, there's not really a ton I can say but most of this team is actually fairly non-standard for the BSS metagame. Zapdos and Landorus-T are fairly solid picks, though Zapdos tends to lean towards physically defensive spreads and wants HP Ice more than HP Grass, and the Landorus-T set you're using is fairly non-standard. I'd recommend Swords Dance instead of Defog if you're sticking with the Z-Fly set though. Defog (and by extension Rapid Spin) is also a worthless move in this meta since the utility of removing hazards is significantly reduced when you can only bring 3 Pokemon to a game. This is made worse by the fact that hazards as a whole are basically not relevant outside of Stealth Rock and occasional Sticky Web, with the latter being only used on very specific team setups.

The rest of the team tends towards the lower end of the spectrum in terms of viable threats though. Outside of possibly Magnezone, you could probably replace just the rest of the team to make it more meta relevant. However, rather than give major team change suggestions, there's a few set improvements that can be made if you'd rather stick with some of these. Mega Latios is basically not a relevant Mega whatsoever in BSS though, but if you're sticking with it I would suggest Shadow Ball over Energy Ball so that you can hit Aegislash. Realistically you're better off using Calm Mind Mega Latias here though, or Dragon Dance Mega Salamence if you want a physical Dragon-type. Terrakion is not that bad, though I would suggest a Focus Sash set with Rock Tomb over Stone Edge and Earthquake over Iron Head. This makes it a fairly reliable SR setter with a useful speed control option that can push speed tiers in your favor. Furthermore I'd switch Magnezone to an Electrium Z or Assault Vest set here and use Sturdy or Analytic instead of Magnet Pull, with Volt Switch over Explosion. Hidden Power Water is iffy over HP Ice though it's workable, whatever works for you. Lastly, I think Clefable is bad in this meta but some people still find it to be an acceptable pick with a Calm Mind set using Moonlight and Stored Power. Wish and Heal Bell are usually not good moves in this meta since switching tends to be more difficult and the utility is significantly reduced when you aren't bringing your whole team.

Hope this helps you out, and if you have more questions extending beyond this thread I'd suggest checking out the Battle Spot room on Showdown or the Battle Spot Discord, both linked in this thread.
 
Thank you! I had a feeling this wasnt necessarily the right place for the post. Also I'll be sure to get going on the correct showdown battles. Ill probably come back and make a new post once i REALLY refine the team! maybe ill create a whole new one, cuz im not really attached to anything specific...
 
I just got back into the USUM Showdown ladder, and I'm using chemcoops sample team?

Salamence-Mega (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 84 HP / 220 Atk / 204 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Roost

Hippowdon (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn
- Roar

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

Aegislash (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 29 Spe
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Toxic

Suicune @ Waterium Z
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 172 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Roar
- Calm Mind

Rotom-Heat @ Firium Z
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]


However, I still lose with it a few times. Not too much, but just enough to ask for advice. I was wondering if you guys could give me any advice, either in playing the team well, or adjusting moves, EVs and such
 
Does anyone know of any good teambuilding guides and playstyle guides for the BSS meta? I am new to it and I would like to play BSS on both cartridge and PS but I have absolutely no idea where to start.
 
I just got back into the USUM Showdown ladder, and I'm using chemcoops sample team?

Salamence-Mega (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 84 HP / 220 Atk / 204 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Roost

Hippowdon (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn
- Roar

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

Aegislash (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 29 Spe
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Toxic

Suicune @ Waterium Z
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 172 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Roar
- Calm Mind

Rotom-Heat @ Firium Z
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]


However, I still lose with it a few times. Not too much, but just enough to ask for advice. I was wondering if you guys could give me any advice, either in playing the team well, or adjusting moves, EVs and such
Hey man, the best place to start in my opinion is going to what Chemcoop himself wrote about the team:

https://pastebin.com/nUhKveVL

You could debate about the sets and EVs, but I'd just start there for now.

Does anyone know of any good teambuilding guides and playstyle guides for the BSS meta? I am new to it and I would like to play BSS on both cartridge and PS but I have absolutely no idea where to start.
I can't give you specific advice for that, but a good place to start is just to practice to be honest. There aren't actually any updated teambuilding guides and I struggle to teambuild myself, though the below are useful:

Role compendium: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-spot-singles-role-compendium.3601658/
Good Cores: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-spot-singles-good-cores.3602082/

As for playstyle, general pokemon fundamentals I think works fine in BSS and beyond that, just practice. If you have specific questions, I'd go to the battlespot channel on Pokemonshowdown which seems to be the best place to get advice.
 
Hi everyone, does anyone recommend a team page or any team they know? I have a mental block that does not allow me to builde well lately and I need inspiration
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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Hi everyone, does anyone recommend a team page or any team they know? I have a mental block that does not allow me to builde well lately and I need inspiration
http://nouthuca.com/

I don't recommend relying on it though. once you get back in your groove it's always better to build! plus some of the teams are tricky to use properly unless you can read Japanese and can understand their team descriptions.
 
http://nouthuca.com/

I don't recommend relying on it though. once you get back in your groove it's always better to build! plus some of the teams are tricky to use properly unless you can read Japanese and can understand their team descriptions.
thanks, if you do not worry maybe when I started playing in BSS if I used other teams but now I prefer to use my own equipment than other people I just need to see something outside my "zone" to inspire me and better when it comes to build
 
Venusaur ; item:Venusaurite
Ability:Overgrow(Thick fat)
Nature:Impish
Giga drain
Sludge bomb
Earthquake
Synthesis
It's my favorite pokemon, I create my team for he.Mega stats after M-evo!

Milotic ; item:Leftovers
Ability:Marvel Scale
Nature:Calm
Ice beam
Toxic
Recover
Scald

Recover, two weakness, best tank pokemon!

Garchomp ; item:Firium-Z
Ability:Rough skin
Nature:Jolly
Stealth rock
Fire blast
Outrage
Earthquake

It's my own moveset for Garchomp, I choose he with Stealth rock for kill M-Char-Y(X)

Zapdos ; item:Rocky helmet
Ability:Pressure
Nature:Modest
Thunderbolt
Volt switch
Heat wave
Roost

Blaziken ; item:Blazikenite
Ability:Blaze(Speed boost)
Nature:Adamant
Flare blitz
High jump kick
Protect
Swords dance

If M-Venu is not good for other team, I choose he, Ultra stats,ability, super pokemon, Milotic and Mimikyu remove his ground and flying weakness, M-Lopunny killer

Mimikyu ; item:Mimikyum-Z
Ability:Disguise
Nature:Adamant
Swords dance
Shadow claw
Shadow sneak
Play rough

I choose he for kill M-Meta and M-Sableye,free Swords dance,Shadow sneak, own Z-Cristal
 
Hi there!
I'm trying to build a team based on Blaziken + Celesteela and any help is welcome. Beneath are the sets that I intend to use.
The concept of the team is that Blaziken could baton pass speed boosts to Celesteela so that it can optimally use Leech Seed and then repeatedly Substitute to slowy whittle the opponent down. Blaziken is arguably one of the best users of the move Baton Pass since it isn't as passive or predictable as other such Pokémon (like Scolipede or Eevee). Blaziken often forces switches on Steel Types (such as Celesteela, Heatran and Aegislash) that could otherwise use Substitute on the turn Baton Pass is used which would mean that Celesteela couldn't use Leech Seed.
Celesteela has a great typing as a receiver because it will often be facing Salamence, Landorus-Therian or Psychic Types that try to beat Blaziken.
Air Slash is the preferred move on Celesteela because it can hit Grass Types that are immune to Leech Seed. This is especially important versus Ferrothorn. It is also extra satifsiying to flinch someone when the opponent is affected by Leech Seed. The EV spread on Celesteela allows it to outspeed up to Mega Lucario and Adamant Mega Salamence when it has received 1 speed boost. It also lets Porygon2 get an attack boost should it have the Download ability.

Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Protect

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect

The first problems of this strategy that I can think of, are:
-Volt Switch users because they don't take Leech Seed damage and usually resist Air Slash
-more encounters with the same opponent on the ladder so that he/she is aware of Baton Pass
-defensive teams that stall out PP by switching out constantly and healing back any lost HP
-whirlwind and roar for obvious reasons

My guess would be to first add a Stealth Rock user because it punishes switching in general (with or without Volt Switch). I've seen people running Landorus-Therian and even Nihilego (running Toxic Spikes and Thunder Wave). Since most Stealth Rock users are Ground or Rock Types they have a good matchup versus Fire Types and the team really needs that. At the same however, they also add an extra Water Type weakness to the team which has to be compensated.
Last but not least it would be great to have another Pokémon that is a great receiver of speed boosts. This isn't necessary per se but I'd like to hear what you guys use with Baton Pass Mega Blaziken.

If you might have solutions to the aformentioned problems, don't hesitate to post it here because I'll surely appreciate it!

-Koekkoekokjekoiekokejikeoekojkeokjoekejkje
 

Jhon

Show me something eternal
is a Tiering Contributor
When I'm building M-Blaze speed-pass, and I do frequently, I'm generally looking at mons which blend well with Blaziken in particular.
A two things which are standout to me; speed receivers not being too hindered by Intimidate and the ablility to come in on common attacks aimed at Blaziken (Earthquake, Scald, Psychic, and some of the other general hard hitting stuff). Celesteela works with those criteria.
Of your two proposed SRers, sash-rocks-explosion lead Lando can work really well with an offensively leaning mode. And Nihilego, though a poor speed receiver, can help with with the Charizards significantly. I think other strong SR options can include Mamoswine, likely best with sash, and Garchomp. Mamoswine can help with the Salamence problems Blaziken has and Garchomp has the strong matchup with the Charizards.
For additional strong speed receivers, I really like Thundurus-T. Able to capitilise on the speed boost with a Nasty Plot and often sweep. Bulky varients have a decent matchup with common Salamence (basically any set without Draco) and other pokemon which plague Blaziken like Fini and Toxapex.

As for playing around Whirlwind and Roar, try not to go in with the setup stuff until it's dealt with. If they're leading with something like Hippowdon, setting rocks and spamming Yawn/Whirlwind then landing Leech Seed on it will neutralise much of the damage you're taking from rocks while weakening the Hippo until it's in range of a strong attack from Blaziken or some other pokemon on your team.

Last year I did this RMT for a Blaze-pass team, with Celesteela, which could be worth a look at. It was built for the SM meta, I don't think it has a stella Naganadel matchup, but is still fairly strong and worth looking at for ideas. I wanted every mon on the team to work as a speed receiver on this team, but that certainly isn't a must for this archetype.
 

Psynergy

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Since Jhon brought up Celesteela and Nihilego I want to add a little more insight on that approach in the current meta. I've actually used that trio recently and I'm having solid results with it.
Blaziken-Mega @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Protect

Celesteela @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Autotomize

Nihilego @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot / Thunder Wave / Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock

This is a more offensive approach that I've seen on a few recent teams and I've enjoyed it. Nihilego is somewhat interchangeable with Landorus-T depending on the team's needs, I just like Nihilego helping out with the Charizard matchups. This puts a bit more focus on Celesteela's ability to lure foes that expect it to be passive and snowball with Beast Boost + Stealth Rock damage after Blaziken bullies their team a bit. A typical defensive Celesteela or Choice Scarf Nihilego can work just as well or even better if your team prefers those options, but Skystrike Celesteela is a solid approach to a Speed passing core that's at least worth mentioning here.

This is also one of the few times you will ever see me list Toxic Spikes as a viable option, but Sash Nihilego can really provide a ton of support here and I'm a fan of the flexibility it can provide with the coverage slot.
 
Not saying you should use it over celesteela, but one of my favourite hippowdon annoyances on blaz-pass is my boy gourgeist. Everyone who talks to me a bit knows how big of a fan I am of this little guy:

Gourgeist @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Insomnia
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 108 SpD / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain (you can put a variety of moves here, I like giga)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

This is a Baton Pass recipient that can wind up hippo, snorlax and lando as well as deals with breloom, another annoyance to bp teams.

There are multiple things that make Gourgeist so good:

Insomnia allows Gourgeist to be not affected by hippowdon or snorlax's yawn. In fact, hippo really struggles with gourgeist in the head to head. Hippo, a typical bane of BP teams without a specific taunter or magic bounce espeon, does 15-18% with earthquake and allows gourgeist to get fast will-o-wisp and leech seeds for free. Even if Hippo phases out gourgeist, leech seeds mitigates stealth rock and sand damage whilst also wearing down hippo. With a whirlwind into gourgeist, you can get off a willow-wisp or giga drain, further accelerating the process, before proceeding to go back into blaziken and start the train again. The speed allows it to get to 202 speed at +1, allowing it to substitute on key meta leads.

In terms of specifics, landorus-t's rock tomb does a max of 24.2% to this spread above, whilst also simultaneously subs being able take volt switches from weaker kokos and all rotoms. It is important to note that explosion from sash lando does a grand total of 0 damage to gourgeist. Dedicated sash Lead lando is pretty useless vs. our boy. It is also a great recipient vs. Breloom, walling it even if it swords dances (lol) on a blaziken. Unaffected by spore, can put on the will-o-wisp onto loom even if it SDs, breaking sash and neutering the mon. The ghost typing in general is great for BP recipients, it isn't perish trapped by mega gengar, it can 1v1 mega kang, especially if it doesn't have fire punch. It is actually a mon that can 1v1 z-torrent greninja as well which can really threaten BP chains. It can even be used to get key willo-wisps on the likes of mega gyarados.

Gourgeist is better on the attacking side, but giga is better vs. defensive hippo and cloyster, so it's your choice there.

The main reason I use it is for hippo/lando.

I was using bp into skystrike celesteela quite a bit this week, for what it's worth, I think it is pretty effective. I quite like 4 attack steela, though it is harder to bp into. The speed tier can be a bit weird though at times, you want the tankiness of a typical steela yet speed above koko. Hitting 101 speed seems the way to go, but it's not an easy task by any means.
 
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So... I finally want to try out Doubles. I've been holding this off for a LONG time. But, I caught a Pokemon I feel I want to make the central Pokemon of this team....

Cresselia @ Kee Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Moonlight

And so far... I have this Megazard Y to accompany her.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Overheat
- Protect

But, now I'm wondering who I should also use. I'm thinking Landorus-T.... As much as I hate it, it just seems to be a good fit for this team. But, are there any other suggestions?
 

Jhon

Show me something eternal
is a Tiering Contributor
But, now I'm wondering who I should also use. I'm thinking Landorus-T.... As much as I hate it, it just seems to be a good fit for this team. But, are there any other suggestions?
Landorus-T is a very strong partner for Charizard-Y + Cress. I would definetly reccomend it. Having two ground immunities along side Lando can give you a lot of flexability while using Earthquake, which makes using the Choice Scarf set easier, and Band too though that's rarer.
Another very good mon to pair with those is Tapu Koko. Offensively it can fit into these Charizard cores very well. It would also let you use Electric Seed on Cresselia to raise it's defense instead of Kee Berry. Terrain seeds have been the general preference over Kee and Maranga berries this gen.
 
Landorus-T is a very strong partner for Charizard-Y + Cress. I would definetly reccomend it. Having two ground immunities along side Lando can give you a lot of flexability while using Earthquake, which makes using the Choice Scarf set easier, and Band too though that's rarer.
Another very good mon to pair with those is Tapu Koko. Offensively it can fit into these Charizard cores very well. It would also let you use Electric Seed on Cresselia to raise it's defense instead of Kee Berry. Terrain seeds have been the general preference over Kee and Maranga berries this gen.
Ah, okay then, I have a few HP Ice Tapu Kokos. One from my Moon version, and one from the Shiny event.

As for Landorus-T, I need to catch one.... I need to see if I have a Thunderus, so I can catch it in Ultra Space.

Now, I assume Adamant, or Jolly are the best natures for Lando, yeah?
 

marilli

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Ah, okay then, I have a few HP Ice Tapu Kokos. One from my Moon version, and one from the Shiny event.

As for Landorus-T, I need to catch one.... I need to see if I have a Thunderus, so I can catch it in Ultra Space.

Now, I assume Adamant, or Jolly are the best natures for Lando, yeah?
The nature kinda depends on what you're using it for. Actually lot of people have actually been switching to a Special Lando-T instead, for its ability to do damage unhindered by Intimidate, Grassy Terrain, and other damage debuffs and actually do bigger damage to the big Ground-weak Pokemon like Metagross, Gengar, Incineroar, etc. without having to pay attention to your partner damaged like you would with Earthquake. Most notably it always one-shots Mega Gengar, which Earthquake cannot do with all these counterplay. On the DS ladder these special sets account for 20% of all Lando, and 15% of Landorus-T are Modest. That's actually pretty close to the 19% of all Lando being Jolly instead, and I believe Special Landos do get a lot more representation on higher-profile tournament play over ladder play.

I would use Adamant for the Zard-Y team, that unhindered Earthquake spread damage with 2 levitating partners is quite nice and Charizard itself has a pretty good offensive matchup against stuff like Mega Gengar or Mega Metagross teams, which is the main draw of Earth Power. Specially oriented Scarf / AV sets should use Modest. Jolly feels marginally effective on non-scarf offensive sets like Z move Lando, as that Jolly Scarf speed is a bit overboard, but on stuff like Z-EQ or Z-Fly, it seems situationally useful depending on whether your team needs that speed tier control around the fairly contested speed tier.
 
The nature kinda depends on what you're using it for. Actually lot of people have actually been switching to a Special Lando-T instead, for its ability to do damage unhindered by Intimidate, Grassy Terrain, and other damage debuffs and actually do bigger damage to the big Ground-weak Pokemon like Metagross, Gengar, Incineroar, etc. without having to pay attention to your partner damaged like you would with Earthquake. Most notably it always one-shots Mega Gengar, which Earthquake cannot do with all these counterplay. On the DS ladder these special sets account for 20% of all Lando, and 15% of Landorus-T are Modest. That's actually pretty close to the 19% of all Lando being Jolly instead, and I believe Special Landos do get a lot more representation on higher-profile tournament play over ladder play.

I would use Adamant for the Zard-Y team, that unhindered Earthquake spread damage with 2 levitating partners is quite nice and Charizard itself has a pretty good offensive matchup against stuff like Mega Gengar or Mega Metagross teams, which is the main draw of Earth Power. Specially oriented Scarf / AV sets should use Modest. Jolly feels marginally effective on non-scarf offensive sets like Z move Lando, as that Jolly Scarf speed is a bit overboard, but on stuff like Z-EQ or Z-Fly, it seems situationally useful depending on whether your team needs that speed tier control around the fairly contested speed tier.
Alright, whenever I get around to catching Landorus, I'll bring an Adamant Synchronizer.

Alright, so far the team is Cressilia, Megazard Y, Landorus when I catch it, and Tapu Koko.... Now I need to figure out two more Pokemon for the six total Pokemon. These will likely be backups to deal with Pokemon the main 4 can't handle.

Okay, I probably need another Physical Attacker, since Landorus might be my only one at the moment. But the last one is a complete mystery to me.... Another support Pokemon of some sort?
 
Hi _Data_Drain_!
Be careful with sun and Flash Fire boosted Heat Waves from opposing Heatran! The sets you came up with for Charizard and Cresselia are not quite ideal versus Heatran as they can't touch it at all. There are several ways you can deal with Heatran:

-Have Hidden Power Ground on either Charizard or Cresselia (instead of Solar Beam or Icy Wind respectively);
-Enable your team to function without Charizard so that you don't always have to bring it on the field and deal with sun boosted Heat Waves. This can be done by using an alternative Mega Evolution on the very same team. It works well to add a Water Type like Tapu Fini or Milotic alongside this alternative Mega Evolution because they have a strong matchup versus Heatran, but also versus Incineroar and Landorus-Therian. These 3 Pokémon are top threats to Charizard teams!
-Use bulky Dragon/Rock Type switch-ins that can tank a few boosted Fire Type attacks and retaliate the next turn. Assault Vest users like Landorus-Therian could work too. I personally like Kommo-o as a teammate of Charizard because it resists Rock Slide and beats Incineroar. Keep in mind that when using Kommo-o Solar Beam is preferred over Hidden Power Ground on Charizard because otherwise Tapu Fini is too hard to deal with.

I hope the above suggestions help you with the teambuilding process. They should be useful when preparing for Fire Types in general.

Since you asked for a (supportive) physical attacker, I'd like to suggest Assault Vest Incineroar as it pairs really well with Calm Mind Cresselia. It's ability, Intimidate, helps Cresselia to tank physical hits even better. Fake Out gives Cresselia the opportunity to set up Calm Mind, use Icy Wind or heal off damage with Moonlight (which means 75% health back if the sun is shining). Furthermore, Incineroar beats Aegislash and with Low Kick it can threaten Tyranitar and Heatran too. Thanks to its Assault Vest it can switch into sun boosted Heat Waves (and then use Fake Out) too.
 
Hi _Data_Drain_!
Be careful with sun and Flash Fire boosted Heat Waves from opposing Heatran! The sets you came up with for Charizard and Cresselia are not quite ideal versus Heatran as they can't touch it at all. There are several ways you can deal with Heatran:

-Have Hidden Power Ground on either Charizard or Cresselia (instead of Solar Beam or Icy Wind respectively);
-Enable your team to function without Charizard so that you don't always have to bring it on the field and deal with sun boosted Heat Waves. This can be done by using an alternative Mega Evolution on the very same team. It works well to add a Water Type like Tapu Fini or Milotic alongside this alternative Mega Evolution because they have a strong matchup versus Heatran, but also versus Incineroar and Landorus-Therian. These 3 Pokémon are top threats to Charizard teams!
-Use bulky Dragon/Rock Type switch-ins that can tank a few boosted Fire Type attacks and retaliate the next turn. Assault Vest users like Landorus-Therian could work too. I personally like Kommo-o as a teammate of Charizard because it resists Rock Slide and beats Incineroar. Keep in mind that when using Kommo-o Solar Beam is preferred over Hidden Power Ground on Charizard because otherwise Tapu Fini is too hard to deal with.

I hope the above suggestions help you with the teambuilding process. They should be useful when preparing for Fire Types in general.

Since you asked for a (supportive) physical attacker, I'd like to suggest Assault Vest Incineroar as it pairs really well with Calm Mind Cresselia. It's ability, Intimidate, helps Cresselia to tank physical hits even better. Fake Out gives Cresselia the opportunity to set up Calm Mind, use Icy Wind or heal off damage with Moonlight (which means 75% health back if the sun is shining). Furthermore, Incineroar beats Aegislash and with Low Kick it can threaten Tyranitar and Heatran too. Thanks to its Assault Vest it can switch into sun boosted Heat Waves (and then use Fake Out) too.
I was planning on using some form of Landorus-T. Either a Choice Scarfed one, or something. But, Assault Vest might also be a great option.

So far the team is Cressilia, Megazard Y, Tapu Koko, and Landorus-T. I just need to figure out two good picks for the last two slots. Another Mega might be a good choice here. Or possibly Incineroar?
 
I've been lurking here for a while and have found some of these resources to be very helpful for me learning how to battle competitively (making several teams in the process). I play on cartridge and happened to catch Guzzlord and thought I would have a crack making a team revolving around him as I never see it in use and thought it could be interesting. I decided I would focus on a defensive variant as I have plenty of viable attacking mons better suited to that role. I hate stall teams but decided I would make a semi-stall team of my own that can counter other stall teams that come up but also allow me to play an attacking game with the rest of my team.

Guzzlord @ leftovers
EVS 40 ATK / 212 DEF / 212 SDEF / 44 SPEED
Adamant nature
- knock off
- toxic
- iron defence
- rest

To be honest I haven't done the damage calcs or w/e yet but I wanted to go with decent mixed defences whilst still having enough firepower with knock off. I will adjust these later after I get a better idea of how my final team will look and what is required. The speed EVS allow guzzy to outspeed hippowdon. In use he is a generally annoying type mon to deal with with the ability to pp stall and recover from status. I wanted iron defence to shore up my defence in the face of the plethora of dragon and sword dancers that come up and prevent my team from getting overwhelmed. Knock off is particularly useful for chansey/toxapex or an incoming gliscor/porygon-2

I wanted someone similarly annoying to deal with to pair up with this bad boy and decided I would go with Celesteela to cover for Guzzy's fairy weakness and not take too much damage from fighting and ice.

Celesteela @ Rocky helmet
EVS 252 HP / 4 ATK / 72 DEF / 180 SDEF
Relaxed nature
- leech seed
- protect
- flamethrower
- heavy slam

I opted again for mixed defences but I would need to fine tune these EVS over time. With these EVS defence is one point higher than SDEF so any beast boost gains increase defence over special defence. Rocky helmet serves as a hindrance to physical mons such as kangaskhan. Leech seed/protect provides a form of recovery and the toxic support from guzzy makes the opponent question staying in.

Obvious problems at the moment are tapu koko and charizard.. From here I've kinda been lazy and just slapped the rest of the team together with mons I already have and work well in other teams and went with:

standard focus sash excadrill with stealth rock to make things more awkward with celesteela and guzzy and provide a decent check to koko. Adamant nature with mold breaker sorts out mimikyu pretty well. Iron head, earthquake and rock tomb complete his moveset

Choice specs modest tapu fini with trick to provide control over status and provide an alternate means of dealing with mons such as snorlax/porygon/chansey/toxapex etc. Moon blast, hydro pump and surf are the other moves

Choice scarf modest rotom-heat with trick provides speed and another mon to mess with the same bulkier mons

At the moment I seem to be needing something to deal with water types and went with mega gardevoir with grass knot, thunderbolt, psyshock and hyper voice. Can revenge killer mega swampert through tracing swift swim on switch in and nail it with grass knot.

--

I will update details on the rest of my team later (gotta bounce to go to a gig) but looking for suggestions mainly for team mates for the first 2 mons as my core team? The team is okay so far but I could use a better water killer (to be honest gardevoir very rarely even gets used). Fini/rotom/excadrill really decimate a lot of teams with several different partners but I would like to make a different team as I already use these mons a lot in another team I've been ranking up with on cart
 
Hey mate, I'll try help you out here.

Firstly, I have to be honest about your team. I love Guzzlord as a design, in fact it is probably my favourite ultrabeast, however it is competitively shite. This is probably why you aren't finding it used much. This is because it has HP and very little else going for it. The defences aren't enough to call it a tank (and it does not have consistent recovery), the typing is horrible defensively, whilst it is too weak offensively to break through stuff with no setup. It's also even slower than a fat hippopotamus. If you want to use something that is decent vs. stall with that typing, hydreigon with perhaps a taunt + roost set with dual stab or perhaps even dark/fire coverage is far better. You are realistically never going to get your iron defence/rest combination going because a moonblast from anything is going to drop Guzzlord and pretty much every fairy switches into your set for free.

If I'm getting it correct your team is:

Guzzlord, Celesteela, Rotom-H, Tapu Fini, Excadrill, Mega Gardevoir

I'm not sure where to go with it as I'm a bit tired, but the team is wonky and weak to a lot of things. For example, standard Naganadel on team preview just wins. Protean Gren also has no switch-ins other than celesteela which takes a ton from water moves. You rely on Rotom-H far too heavily to check Thundurus-T, Ferrothorn, opposing celesteela, Tpunch mega metagross and zapdos. Rotom-H isn't the most bulky of mons, especially with a scarf and I feel that you will find it overpressured (and inflexible due to scarf) in practice. Volcarona also has a field day. I feel like mega gardevoir does nothing for your team at all other than perhaps beat mega venusaur, but it can't switch into poison moves, meaning that venusaur just sits in forever vs. your team. Rotom-W is another mon that is really problematic for you, less so with sash drill, but drill cannot switch into rotom other than on a predicted electric move. I honestly do think that your team struggles with mega salamence and mega blaziken and that is despite having Tapu Fini, as well as steela for the former and Excadrill for the latter due to the nature of your build.

What I think you need to do is decide where you are going with your team. You can make a balance or bulky offence build theoretically with guzzlord and celesteela (though I think hydreigon would be better as it actually hits harder, has levitate, has a far better speed tier, access to recovery and is nearly as bulky). If you are using guzz over hydreigon, the one main thing guzz has over hydrei is its poison coverage (I know z-belch exists) and the fact it can run assault vest better (though the type is awful specially defensively so thats a bad idea in general). You need to though cater your sets to the fact that it is that, you can't have a fini set for example that is both pretty weak and not bulky nor can it really cheese opponents that well like scarf.

Thats just my advice though, people may disagree with it.
 
Yeah that's the team (you're right in that it's wonky as). I've been trying it out on showdown and all of those exact issues have come up pretty early on. I still haven't found any use for Gardevoir yet (unsurprising really) and all of those mons mentioned have proved problematic so far. Guzzy hasn't been too bad so far but as soon as it takes a leech seed/runs into blaziken or any fairy etc it can't really do much. I don't really want to go offensive with it (as you said hydreigon would be better at this anyway) but it's looking like it's not quite gonna cut it as a defensive type either. I happen to have hydreigon on cart.. a taunt set could be interesting to try out.

You found those holes pretty easily, I guess that just comes from experience? Are there any guides worth viewing about teambuilding (or even just competitive battling) in general? I haven't really developed much of a style in my teams so far and it's only through use that I become aware of what poses a threat. I'm getting better through trial and error but I feel like I've missed some crucial info at some point
 

chemcoop

When in doubt, Rock Slide out!
is a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
You found those holes pretty easily, I guess that just comes from experience? Are there any guides worth viewing about teambuilding (or even just competitive battling) in general? I haven't really developed much of a style in my teams so far and it's only through use that I become aware of what poses a threat. I'm getting better through trial and error but I feel like I've missed some crucial info at some point
Gaining experience is definitely one of the most important parts of developing as a BSS player. You learn to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of certain cores, common sets, and team preview management as you play more and more. You're also right that trial and error is an important aspect of teambuilding. Even after building for BSS for years, I still find that the best way to develop/improve a team is to play lots of games against good opponents.

That being said, there are certainly lots of resources here that you can use to help get better. Forum posts are by nature a pretty slow way to get teambuilding help from the community, so I recommend checking out some of the live chat options for better help. Our Discord server is probably the best place to get help as it is more active than forums or PS!, but you can certainly get help on Showdown if you prefer that. You can find links to both our Showdown chatroom and our Discord server on the first post in this thread. The second post in that thread gives a link to Battle Spot usage stats, which you can use to help your teambuilding by checking "standard" sets for common BSS Pokémon and their top partners.

As for other "crucial info," I'm not sure how much you've lurked on the forums, but definitely check out the sample teams thread to get some inspiration for teams that you can use by looking at teams that have been proven to do well. Devilican has done a great job creating pokepastes of some of the top teams from the most reason BSS cartridge seasons here and here, so check those out as well.
 

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