BSS Teambuilding & Help Thread (SuMo Edition Reloaded 2.0)

masibu said:
Alright cool thanks for that. I've never looked at Discord but I'll keep it in mind. Forums are a slow way of interacting but make for good reading. I have checked out some of the usage stats and quite a few of those sample teams although I'm yet to use any of them extensively. I like to try lesser used mons if only to understand for myself why they don't get much use but perhaps I should re-evaluate that decision until I've become more familiar with standard teams.
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I personally think using lesser used mons is good and I'm definitely someone who prefers that. The difficulty, assuming you are building a serious team to use on Cartridge, which I believe you are, is finding a niche for that pokemon to fit within the meta and within your team. A lot of lesser used mons aren't neccessarily bad, there are just often better alternatives available.

Take Empoleon, which is 70th in usage in S13. I personally believe that it is an excellent pokemon in the meta. It both has a great defensive typing, a reasonable movepool and is very bulky. The problem with Empoleon is that you also have Hippowdon which is, in general, a better sr/phazer, Tapu Fini which is a better bulky water and Greninja which is a more reliable torrent nuker. What if my team needed a bulky water type that could check some forms of Mega Salamence but also could switch into Volcarona or Naganadel? What if my team needed a mon that could fulfill the same role as Hippowdon whilst beating Greninja and shutting down opposing Hippowdon?

Empoleon's your boy.

You then have to think, how important is that niche within the meta and how often you'd prefer Empoleon over Hippowdon or Tapu Fini within the context of your team composition. If you'd rather always have something else, it isn't fitting either within your team or the meta. That's the major problem with your Guzzlord, I can't think of a reason you'd ever want it over Hydreigon. There are pokemon though, even in the 100s and 200s in usage that have a niche.

The best way in my opinion is to build your team is to choose your pokemon based on what synergy you think they have, keeping the top 20-30 or so pokemon and their most common sets in mind, then you can fill out the movesets based on that. It's best for your pokemon to have a role within a composition, rather than thinking in terms of pure typing. Building FWG or FDS cores for the sake of having the type coverage is not very good unless those pokemon also have proper roles. As Chemcoop says, most of this just comes with time and experience. I cannot say that I am the most experienced with this myself, but keeping pokemon and their most common sets in mind will actually help you a lot I feel. You talk about stall and whilst it is cool to have an answer to stall, having a focus on beating stall when it is not a particularly common playstyle (or that good in general) is not so good.

I think after you build your team, bring it to showdown ladder and then start looking at team matchups and lead scenarios and tweaking your team accordingly. You can do this both theoretically and see it unfold in practice.

Take Koko-Aegi-Mence-Hippo cores which you are likely to find on the ladder, your team is actually somewhat naturally decent vs. them. Rotom-H is a pokemon that just naturally pressures that matchup a lot, most specifically with firium-z, but also to a lesser extent with scarf. If you were personally uncomfortable in the matchup, a bulky firium-z set on your rotom-h might be an adjustment you could make to shore up the matchup.

Overall it's just all up to practice and experience.
 
Devilican said:
I personally think using lesser used mons is good and I'm definitely someone who prefers that. The difficulty, assuming you are building a serious team to use on Cartridge, which I believe you are, is finding a niche for that pokemon to fit within the meta and within your team. A lot of lesser used mons aren't neccessarily bad, there are just often better alternatives available.

Take Empoleon, which is 70th in usage in S13. I personally believe that it is an excellent pokemon in the meta. It both has a great defensive typing, a reasonable movepool and is very bulky. The problem with Empoleon is that you also have Hippowdon which is, in general, a better sr/phazer, Tapu Fini which is a better bulky water and Greninja which is a more reliable torrent nuker. What if my team needed a bulky water type that could check some forms of Mega Salamence but also could switch into Volcarona or Naganadel? What if my team needed a mon that could fulfill the same role as Hippowdon whilst beating Greninja and shutting down opposing Hippowdon?

Empoleon's your boy.

You then have to think, how important is that niche within the meta and how often you'd prefer Empoleon over Hippowdon or Tapu Fini within the context of your team composition. If you'd rather always have something else, it isn't fitting either within your team or the meta. That's the major problem with your Guzzlord, I can't think of a reason you'd ever want it over Hydreigon. There are pokemon though, even in the 100s and 200s in usage that have a niche.

The best way in my opinion is to build your team is to choose your pokemon based on what synergy you think they have, keeping the top 20-30 or so pokemon and their most common sets in mind, then you can fill out the movesets based on that. It's best for your pokemon to have a role within a composition, rather than thinking in terms of pure typing. Building FWG or FDS cores for the sake of having the type coverage is not very good unless those pokemon also have proper roles. As Chemcoop says, most of this just comes with time and experience. I cannot say that I am the most experienced with this myself, but keeping pokemon and their most common sets in mind will actually help you a lot I feel. You talk about stall and whilst it is cool to have an answer to stall, having a focus on beating stall when it is not a particularly common playstyle (or that good in general) is not so good.

I think after you build your team, bring it to showdown ladder and then start looking at team matchups and lead scenarios and tweaking your team accordingly. You can do this both theoretically and see it unfold in practice.

Take Koko-Aegi-Mence-Hippo cores which you are likely to find on the ladder, your team is actually somewhat naturally decent vs. them. Rotom-H is a pokemon that just naturally pressures that matchup a lot, most specifically with firium-z, but also to a lesser extent with scarf. If you were personally uncomfortable in the matchup, a bulky firium-z set on your rotom-h might be an adjustment you could make to shore up the matchup.

Overall it's just all up to practice and experience.
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Some very good points being raised here (Empoleon happens to be one of my favourite mons..I definitely enjoy using it more than Hippowdon) and I think I'm starting to get the picture. Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I'm guilty of spending a lot of time fussing over typing without having a clear role for said mon. Mons like Eelektross/Electivire have nice type coverage for example but don't seem to pressure opponents at all so remain pretty middling. Greninja might have (slightly) less coverage but creates a ton more pressure due to how many varied sets exist that can punish you for mispredicting. It's up there with mimikyu as one of the most frustrating mons for me to deal with for that reason.

My team has been performing pretty well against that very core mentioned but I don't have the knowledge (yet) of why that has been the case. I certainly feel like I have way more control of a game when using rotom but that may just be because I'm more familiar to using it in several different forms (I've bred and raised several different ones to use on cart). Guzzy by comparison hasn't provided nearly the same level of pressure against any team I've come up against. Outstalling other mons is a tedious way to win (something like gliscor will eventually get the OHKO anyway) and doesn't help improve my overall battling skills either. There have been a few times where I would think "Pokemon x would have been useful in this situation". As mentioned previously, Hydreigon can pressure teams as it has has that offensive nature and it doesn't seem to have much less bulk than Guzzy either.

Something else I've been thinking about - am I creating a disadvantage to myself if I create a team without utilising both a mega and a z-slot? Sometimes I feel like I'm adding a mega just for the sake of adding a mega and other times I rely on a mega too much. Some teams I've come across have 2 mega Pokemon in their team but I would have thought that to be detrimental. There have also been times I've created a team and realised afterwards it might be slightly more specially based than physical based and end up changing it so that it's more balanced (even though the original team might have been more useful). Is that something to even be overly conscious of when building? I feel like maybe it isn't and I should just trial and tinker with it and change things as I go.
 
masibu said:
Something else I've been thinking about - am I creating a disadvantage to myself if I create a team without utilising both a mega and a z-slot? Sometimes I feel like I'm adding a mega just for the sake of adding a mega and other times I rely on a mega too much. Some teams I've come across have 2 mega Pokemon in their team but I would have thought that to be detrimental. There have also been times I've created a team and realised afterwards it might be slightly more specially based than physical based and end up changing it so that it's more balanced (even though the original team might have been more useful). Is that something to even be overly conscious of when building? I feel like maybe it isn't and I should just trial and tinker with it and change things as I go.
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To answer your question on whether you are creating a disadvantage for yourself when you use both no mega and no z-move, it is a more difficult question than a yes or no answer since theoretically you could be fine without either. The reality is that the vast majority of teams have both a mega, often multiple megas as well as a z-move user and sometimes multiple z-move users. To use an example planted in reality, there are 50 articles covering different teams that came in the top 150 on cartridge in Season 10. Out of those, all 50 teams have a mega pokemon and 47/50 have a z-move user.

Mega Pokemon are often built around due to their superior numbers to regular pokemon and therefore their strength is worth more than most non-mega pokemon and therefore they are more clear win conditions. Higher numbers essentially means that they can dish out more damage, take more damage but at the sacrifice of that mega slot. You cannot get pokemon with the base stats of Mega Salamence or Mega Metagross for example from a non-mega pokemon. This is not always the case, Mega Gengar is a pokemon where you are building around its fantastic ability rather than its base stats. You can have two megas if you want and often it is good (though not essential), since BSS is a team of 6 and then choose 3, you could have two completely separate cores of three for different matchups each of which have their individual mega. It's more complex than that, but that's a very simple example to understand. This logic essentially follows too for Z-Moves, you want that extra oomph on your attacks, especially for pokemon that set up or lack that power innately. You can even run 2 Z-moves because you might have a lot of situations where you can bring one or the other.

With regards to special vs. physical based, I wouldn't think about that too much. I don't think pokemon is a game where if the opponent has a defensive P2, your physical attackers are all useless or if the opponent has a chansey your special attackers are all useless. You can play around special and physical walls, the key is whether your team has the ability to do so. If it has the techs where you can beat special walls like chansey or perhaps it baits special walls so your physical attacker can win, then it is fine to have a specially heavy team or vice versa. Sometimes it can be good to be balanced and definitely it is good to have both physical and special attackers, but I do think that having key offensive typings/coverage, especially fire, ground, electric, water, ice, rock and fairy are more important in a team.
 
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Devilican said:
To answer your question on whether you are creating a disadvantage for yourself when you use both no mega and no z-move, it is a more difficult question than a yes or no answer since theoretically you could be fine without either. The reality is that the vast majority of teams have both a mega, often multiple megas as well as a z-move user and sometimes multiple z-move users. To use an example planted in reality, there are 50 articles covering different teams that came in the top 150 on cartridge in Season 10. Out of those, all 50 teams have a mega pokemon and 47/50 have a z-move user.

Mega Pokemon are often built around due to their superior numbers to regular pokemon and therefore their strength is worth more than most non-mega pokemon and therefore they are more clear win conditions. Higher numbers essentially means that they can dish out more damage, take more damage but at the sacrifice of that mega slot. You cannot get pokemon with the base stats of Mega Salamence or Mega Metagross for example from a non-mega pokemon. This is not always the case, Mega Gengar is a pokemon where you are building around its fantastic ability rather than its base stats. You can have two megas if you want and often it is good (though not essential), since BSS is a team of 6 and then choose 3, you could have two completely separate cores of three for different matchups each of which have their individual mega. It's more complex than that, but that's a very simple example to understand. This logic essentially follows too for Z-Moves, you want that extra oomph on your attacks, especially for pokemon that set up or lack that power innately. You can even run 2 Z-moves because you might have a lot of situations where you can bring one or the other.

With regards to special vs. physical based, I wouldn't think about that too much. I don't think pokemon is a game where if the opponent has a defensive P2, your physical attackers are all useless or if the opponent has a chansey your special attackers are all useless. You can play around special and physical walls, the key is whether your team has the ability to do so. If it has the techs where you can beat special walls like chansey or perhaps it baits special walls so your physical attacker can win, then it is fine to have a specially heavy team or vice versa. Sometimes it can be good to be balanced and definitely it is good to have both physical and special attackers, but I do think that having key offensive typings/coverage, especially fire, ground, electric, water, ice, rock and fairy are more important in a team.
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I'm not really surprised that all 50 teams contained a mega and vast majority a z-user as well. That's a pretty solid indication that I'm probably going to want the same if I'm going to continue ranking up. I would have thought multiple z-users and mega Pokemon in a team would be wasteful but I guess you're only bringing 3 anyway so having a variety to choose from could be pretty handy.

Good points regarding special/physical attackers. In that case I will move my focus to having key offensive coverage and make changes if I'm consistently getting walled by something.
 
masibu said:
I'm not really surprised that all 50 teams contained a mega and vast majority a z-user as well. That's a pretty solid indication that I'm probably going to want the same if I'm going to continue ranking up. I would have thought multiple z-users and mega Pokemon in a team would be wasteful but I guess you're only bringing 3 anyway so having a variety to choose from could be pretty handy.

Good points regarding special/physical attackers. In that case I will move my focus to having key offensive coverage and make changes if I'm consistently getting walled by something.
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It should be noted that not every pokemon with a z-move is defined by it.

Some pokemon love the power of the z-move, especially the likes of Mimikyu, Naganadel, Porygon-Z and Thundurus-T where you could argue that the ability to use a z-move is an important part of their competitive viability and strength. Other pokemon can use z-moves but even if you were never to use them throughout the entire battle, they wouldn't suffer too much by not using them in the battle. Protean Greninja might be an example of this, where even Z-gren would probably do its job without ever needing the Z-move.

I find quite a few people are restrictive in their team choices because they follow rigid rules of not bringing 2 megas or 2 z-move users. Whilst I wouldn't suggest bringing regular Mawile into a game, bringing a regular tyranitar, gyarados or blaziken and not megaing it is perfectly fine as these are great pokemon in their own right. It's not something to do in most battles, but if you do come into a situation where you would really want both megas or both z-move users, you can still bring both. You just have to think about which Z you want to use or which mon you want to mega.

It would be cool if there was a list of reasons for having certain offensive coverage on every team, but it essentially boils down to this and when you are looking for pokemon that have these coverage, you want them to be able to beat/pressure these mons so don't keep just in mind the coverage, look at the mon and compare it to what it is supposed to hit:

Fire type coverage: Mega Metagross, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Celesteela, Kartana, Scizor
Ground type coverage: Mega Metagross, Tapu Koko, Aegislash, Blaziken, Heatran, Gengar, Tyranitar, Naganadel, Charizard X
Electric type coverage: Greninja, Tapu Fini, Gyarados, Toxapex, Suicune
Water type coverage: Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Blaziken, Heatran, Volcarona, Gliscor
Ice type coverage: Landorus-T, Mega Salamence, Garchomp, Gliscor (to lesser extent Naganadel + Thund-t)
Rock type coverage: Charizard X + Y, Thundurus-T, Volcarona
Fairy type coverage: Mega Salamence, Greninja, Garchomp, Tyranitar

Ghost type stab is also important to mention here, though it does not hit much significant super effectively that aren't better covered by other types, it has very few resists. Asides from that, Fighting type can be used for the three big normals (p2, snorlax, chansey) as well as ferrothorn but often it is better to knock off/toxic bulky normals to neuter them unless you are using a fighting type mega.

You could fill out a similar matrix defensively, the four most important defensive types are steel, water, ground and normal.
 
Devilican said:
It should be noted that not every pokemon with a z-move is defined by it.

Some pokemon love the power of the z-move, especially the likes of Mimikyu, Naganadel, Porygon-Z and Thundurus-T where you could argue that the ability to use a z-move is an important part of their competitive viability and strength. Other pokemon can use z-moves but even if you were never to use them throughout the entire battle, they wouldn't suffer too much by not using them in the battle. Protean Greninja might be an example of this, where even Z-gren would probably do its job without ever needing the Z-move.

I find quite a few people are restrictive in their team choices because they follow rigid rules of not bringing 2 megas or 2 z-move users. Whilst I wouldn't suggest bringing regular Mawile into a game, bringing a regular tyranitar, gyarados or blaziken and not megaing it is perfectly fine as these are great pokemon in their own right. It's not something to do in most battles, but if you do come into a situation where you would really want both megas or both z-move users, you can still bring both. You just have to think about which Z you want to use or which mon you want to mega.

It would be cool if there was a list of reasons for having certain offensive coverage on every team, but it essentially boils down to this and when you are looking for pokemon that have these coverage, you want them to be able to beat/pressure these mons so don't keep just in mind the coverage, look at the mon and compare it to what it is supposed to hit:

Fire type coverage: Mega Metagross, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, Celesteela, Kartana, Scizor
Ground type coverage: Mega Metagross, Tapu Koko, Aegislash, Blaziken, Heatran, Gengar, Tyranitar, Naganadel, Charizard X
Electric type coverage: Greninja, Tapu Fini, Gyarados, Toxapex, Suicune
Water type coverage: Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Blaziken, Heatran, Volcarona, Gliscor
Ice type coverage: Landorus-T, Mega Salamence, Garchomp, Gliscor (to lesser extent Naganadel + Thund-t)
Rock type coverage: Charizard X + Y, Thundurus-T, Volcarona
Fairy type coverage: Mega Salamence, Greninja, Garchomp, Tyranniser

Ghost type stab is also important to mention here, though it does not hit much significant super effectively that aren't better covered by other types, it has very few resists. Asides from that, Fighting type can be used for the three big normals (p2, snorlax, chansey) as well as ferrothorn but often it is better to knock off/toxic bulky normals to neuter them unless you are using a fighting type mega.

You could fill out a similar matrix defensively, the four most important defensive types are steel, water, ground and normal.
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I see what you're saying about Z-moves. I happen to like grassium-z on greninja as a cheeky means of scoring a ko on other water types. There will be several games where it might not see that much use but that doesn't mean it becomes dead weight because of that (and I can bring along another Z-user whose Z-move would be more useful in particular matchups).

I do happen to be a little rigid in that regard when creating a team and you're right - those 3 mons are great with or without going mega. I probably actually prefer regular gyarados to it's mega form to allow me to use intimidate to my advantage and usually run Z-bounce instead of a mega stone (depending on the make up of the rest of my team).

That coverage list is incredibly helpful, thank you. That's an area where I'm a little forgetful as to why I should be running certain moves/mons over others. Knock off is certainly a helpful means of dealing with those normal or passive type mons (I try to have at least 1 user of it in my teams). I'm surprised you mention normal as in important defensive type but I guess with only a fighting weakness p2 and chansey are always going to turn up sooner or later (p2 in particular) and if not prepared for they can be difficult to deal with.
 
People overlook normal as a defensive typing. When you have a pokemon as bulky as P2 or Chansey and you can only hit them super effective with one type, that makes them a decent wall even if they have little resistances because practically nothing can 2hko them with non-super effective moves. Also on the special side, fighting type is kinda crappy due to focus blast missing tons and fighting types struggle due to fairies. Normal I think only makes sense within the context of the most important normal defensive pokemon (P2, Chansey, Blissey, Snorlax) rather than the typing itself giving a huge amount of resistances. So these pokemon can be very annoying if you only have attacking moves.
 
Since you've mentioned it I've been playing around with Empoleon again and decided to go with a team centred around that plus (something). I checked out some Japanese teams on nouthuca and found this to be decent http://kyon1101.hateblo.jp/entry/2018/11/06/213153 although I haven't had nearly the same success as the creator (probably doesn't help I don't speak Japanese). I can post the team here in full if required. I've played like 100 games and although it did give me a better idea of what most of my teams lack (a dependable wall breaker) I don't feel like I'm really progressing much with it so I'm considering adapting parts of this team to my own. I'm floundering around 1600 on cart. Some games are pretty straight forward others.. not so much.

I consistently found a number of Pokemon to be problematic.. Heatran, Breloom, Xurkitree, Tapu Lele and Mega Heracross were constant thorns as were meta gross, Gliscor and Mimikyu. The only way to get around Chansey is taking it out with Sal or getting it to sleep and somehow managing to get Volcarona in to dance away and then take it out. Rain teams can be worked around although they are still quite troublesome (even though the strategy is so obvious before the game begins). Stall teams are annoying as hell but that could just be me being bad at the game. These are my amateur thoughts on the mons in the team (in order of least useful to most useful)

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I've found that whilst Choice Scarf Diggersby allows me a KO on metagross/xurkitree/heatran and has ice punch/return for switch-ins immune to earthquake it's a bit of a gamble in terms of predicting and backfires heavily if I mispredict (if I end up ice punching meta gross or heatran I can kiss that game goodbye).

If I see Breloom on page preview I only have Mega Salamence that can reliably substitute to prevent spore (which can easily be taken down via rock tomb if mispredicted). If I attack it then Salamence is good as dead once the sash activates and get spore'd. Since this particular (defensive) Salamence doesn't have earthquake either and rocks substitute and roost instead it is pretty much useless for heatran (and fairly mediocre for xurkitree). I'm not getting a huge amount out of salamence outside of dealing with blaziken/charizard y and I feel like it sits on the bench looking threatening more so than actually doing much. Most teams are prepared for Sal anyway.

Defensive Porygon-Z is nice for gyarados/tapu fini and the EVs keep mimikyu in mind (it's designed to be a mimikyu counter according to the bad google translating) and has enough guts to take a hit and recover (although it has to be wary of earthquake after using z-conversion as it transforms into an electric type mon). It's won me some games but it is pretty easily taken down by blaziken or a +1 gyarados for example. Given how common those threats are it warms the bench pretty frequently.

Defensive Mesprit was the biggest surprise, I didn't mind using it at all. Ice beam for lando and psychic for blaziken/gengar/venusaur in particular are nice. It's main role is to set up stealth rock for Empoleon so I can yawn/icy wind/scald mons depending on whether I can set up on what's been put to sleep with the 3rd mon on my team (usually Volcarona or Porygon-z). It's a decent lead but can be taken advantage of easily by Breloom and Xurkitree so I don't usually bring it along if either of those mons are on team preview

Empoleon I've been very happy with as either a sash lead or secondary pick in most match ups (depending if a stealth rock user such as Hippowdon is likely to lead) but again has trouble with Breloom or Xurkitree making some matchups pretty awkward. Icy wind does enough damage to fellow dragons and prevents being dragon dance fodder. Usually lead this against blaziken to get a torrent scald in for the KO

Volcarona has been a champ. I've personally never lost a game due to an opponent using Volcarona (somehow I've managed to avoid it ever being a problem for my teams to handle) so I didn't really know what to expect when I started using it. It has probably seen the most use alongside Empoleon and I can see why it's so popular. This particular model runs with swarm and substitute and is able to fire a nuke with Z-Bug Buzz (bug buzz is nice in itself for bypassing substitute). Even resisted hits take extreme damage thanks to Quiver Dance and Swarm although priority moves or a cheeky switch from the opponent can be troublesome if you haven't got any mons to back you up after Volcarona goes down.

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I've been mostly positive with this team but would like to have an easier time with the aforementioned mons (especially stall teams as I usually just forfeit for not wanting to waste my time). I like Tapu Fini for dealing with status but I don't know if that really works in the context of the team (especially if I'm using yawn Empoleon anyway). Immediate changes I was thinking of psyshock on mesprit for chansey although that would make it weaker vs Venusaur (not that it's hugely common) and something else to replace diggersby that can take on meta gross fairly comfortably, preferably isn't fighting weak and can possibly deal with breloom and xurkitree as well but it wouldn't shock me if such a mon can't do all that
 
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Hello! This is a team I built and am about to bring on cart any changes? https://pokepast.es/d2fd10900681ab5c Ive already had help on ps so thanks for the people who helped em there but i want to see if there is any more possible improvement for now.

I wnated to build around gknot mega metagross. Which can also be known as best hippo lure in the game (imo). Volcarona beats cress. Sub is for glalie and status. IN the slot of volcarona i wanted to beat cress. This is also a really cool sweeper and I wanted to try sub Zbug in BSS. Scarf lando I thought of knock but i like the pressure of rokcs withmy team making switch ins wiht stall not free. Z kart. Lures zard and many other stuff. I love the power. MIMI is MIMI. ika said u should run jolly but chem and puff said ada and thats what i originally had so im keeping it like that. Koko is cool on this team. With two z users im trying cm althouhg i might make it lo later wo/ cm. Any tips?

Edit: lando spread outspeeds pheromosa with +speed nature. Also underspeeds other scarf lando uturns. Koko spread helps set up vs p2 and lets it live a hippo eq form full.
 
Though the u-turn underspeed is nice, a good chunk of scarf lando are slower than yours (adamant). Going max speed jolly lets you out speed +1 Porygon-z and quite a lot of your team can other wise struggle to deal with it. Likewise charx looks very dangerous, your current lando is at 150 speed while adamant charizard can hit 152, so with a dd/flame charge you could end up in some trouble.
The spread I’ve been using on scarf lando is this:
44 HP / 196 Atk / 12 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | Jolly
The key calc for the bulk here is:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 44 HP / 12 Def Landorus-T: 144-169 (84.7 - 99.4%)
You’re faster than adamant, so surving +1 dd (+intim) from jolly is the important one. Surviving flame charge + outrage/blitz is also a given if you have the intimidate. It’s nice for low investment.
I think this spread fits your team better for reasons above, and it’ll let you be a little les reliant on mimi to handle some of these big threats.
 
Alright, so I’m new to battle spot, kind of, my win ratio is a perfect 50% and I wanted to change my team a little, here it is, thank you :).

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Fang
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

He’s my sweeper with ice fang over crunch to defeat those Landos and Mega Salamences

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit

He’s my tapu killer as I have a little weakness to them, he’s my special tank as well.

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
Level: 50
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch

He’s my celesteela check as gyarados can’t touch her, also my steel trapper.

Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Throat Chop
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn

I don’t know, I needed something to outspend both tapu koko and greninja.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Bone
- Flame Charge

He’s my thundurus-T check and my electric immunity alongside Hippo.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Yawn
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock

My Defensive wall who likes to annoy with yawn.

What I can see is that I’m a little weak to mimikyu, also to gren, bit it’s hard to me to see flaws until I lost about 20 times already.
 
Howdy! I made some quick observations, hopefully you will find them useful. But even if you don't, it would be cool if you can find the time to visit the battle spot rooms on showdown and discord for further ladderee commiseration and the freshest memes...I mean teams.

If you are running a one mega team with Gyarados as your mega with a Hippo in tow and you still feel like Mimikyu is a problem, it might be the case that something is going wrong in your team select screen or in the way you try to get to your lategame (Gyarados). Nothing grinding out more games won't sort out, I trust. You also seem to have entirely forgone the option of running a Z-move, one of the most disgusting (read: powerful) mechanics introduced in gen7. Most people run at least one, but stuff like this with 3 Z-move users has made it to 2k on cart in the past.

Gyarados: Beacuse of Mold Breaker going through Mimikyu, which most people use as a one-time blanket check against other set-up sweepers, you could be going all in on Gyarados greed. For a newer player, this might also be an easier playstyle to execute instead of relying on playing defensively with semi-niche stuff like Magnezone and Marowak right off the bat (master the basics before abandoning them, I always say). How you would go about doing this would be by running a dedicated cripple lead, dual screens or even a Baton Pass setup.

Muk: I submit that you would rather be clicking Knock Off or Poison Jab rather than an attack uninvested Pursuit almost irresepctive of the situation. You could therefore consider Fire Blast or even Rock Tomb to keep speed control. Gunk Shot as an alternative to Poison Jab is not entirely unthinkable either.

Magnezone: Gyarados with Substitute or Taunt just clicks Dragon Dance a bunch of times against most Celesteelas, does it not? But having Magnezone as an option for Ferrothorn as a Gyarados team can be nice, though.

Pheromosa: Well, if you are in the business of outspeeding 200 speed mons like Mega-Gengar and Koko, might as well bring something like Drill Run that can actually kill them, methinks. In Drill Run, you also gain a move you can safely click against things like mindgamey Protect Heatran/Blaziken and an alternative to clicking U-turn or doing a hard switch against a likely incoming Aegislash. Also, Throat Chop in general is almost unheard of outside of something like Baton Pass Scolipede seeking to prevent Perish Song and the occasional Roar.

Marowak: If you want to check Thundurus, you could always go Thundurus yourself, since one of the biggest selling points Marowak has aside from walling electric is walling most Blaziken, which you already do with Hippowdon and Gyarados. Bulky Thundurus would also patch up the lack of Whirlwind on Hippo against Salamence, Gyarados and the like (this is also why Rock Tomb on Muk would help). Maybe you could squeeze some additional mileage out of Marowak by giving it a secondary role as an anti-stall wallbreaker with Swords Dance, similar to things like bulky SD Z-Wild Charge Diggersby.

Hippowdon: Leftovers on Hippo is usually seen as being completely outclassed by FIWAM (figy iapapa wiki aguav mago) and Rocky Helmet; the former because unboosted physical stuff struggles to 2hko and big nukes to 1hko, making it a safe bet to switch in and/or recover momentum with Yawn/Whirlwind; and, the latter because you instantly punish the likes of standard offensive Metagross, Blaziken and Kangaskhan.
 
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Hey there! Tox has done a pretty good job of suggesting changes to the mons that you have but I have a few more things to add:

1. You have a big weakness to Volcarona. This gets a boost on Muk, Phero, and Magnezone and can just blow through any combination of mons on your team with the right coverage, especially if they manage to deny your Stealth Rock for whatever reason ... Gyarados can do it if you hold off on Mega Evolving but Giga Drain variants can still be scary and not even Gyarados can hold up forever against a boosted Volcarona.

2. You can't break Bulky Water + Ground/Flying cores. Fini by itself is super scary for four of your six slots, and if you pair it with a Lando then your Muk and Magnezone are suddenly far less useful as well. I know from experience that Choiced Electric-types are not the hard Fini answers that you expect them to be :/ Your prediction would need to be absolutely perfect in order to crack that core and that's a losing battle over multiple games.

The first change I would suggest is to second Tox's Drill Run > Throat Chop change on Pheromosa. Throat Chop is pretty useless on Phero as its main Ghost-type targets are also weak to Ground (Aegislash, Mega Gengar, Marowak-A) and you're already punishing Psychic-types with the free U-Turn into Muk. Another option for this slot is Poison Jab, as it gives you an out for the Fini+Lando problem as long as you keep Ice Beam, and you can easily pivot into Muk or Hippo to deal with a lot of the threats that Drill Run would hit. Also consider changing out the Life Orb for a Focus Sash - not that a flat boost is bad or anything, but Focus Sash is an incredibly valuable second wind that'll make Phero a lot more useful in many more situations, especially against priority users. If you want extra power, I'd suggest a Z-Crystal such as Fightinium Z to immediately remove a threat and get the Beast Boost ball rolling. With that in mind, I'd also just run 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe Naughty - I feel like speed boosts aren't particularly useful for a pivot like Pheromosa, especially when compared to a potential increase in damage output that's easier to take advantage of with Focus Sash or a Z-Crystal.

Secondly, I would try to replace Magnezone with something that can deal with Volcarona and Tapu Fini a bit better. As I mentioned above, Choiced Electric-types make for poor answers to Tapu Fini due to the high incidence of Landorus and Gliscor that are paired with them in a core, and as Tox mentioned even further above, Gyarados already uses Celesteela and Scizor as setup bait (and Ferrothorn is smooshed by Marowak) so I feel like Magnezone's Steel-trapping niche doesn't bring much to this team structure. I'm gunna suggest offensive Zapdos as a replacement because it has a bunch of similar tools to Magnezone but a) can forgo a Choice item for far more flexibility when dealing with Fini, b) can run both Fire and Ice coverage on the same set, c) has a far superior typing and ability that allows it to heavily disrupt scary meta threats such as Kartana, Landorus-T, Mega Metagross, Mega Salamence, Breloom etc. etc. that could just run their Steel-killing coverage (or STAB) of choice to blow past Magnezone without any issue. An Electrium Z set with Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, HP [Ice] and Roost would patch quite a few holes for you.

Thirdly, Volc is still a big problem for you. As I mentioned before, Gyarados can do a fair job of holding off but I'd still consider Tox's suggestion of Rock Tomb > Pursuit on Muk, just for a little extra insurance. Sash Pheromosa can take one hit and do around 60% back with High Jump Kick if Volcarona is weaked as well so that's useful to keep in mind.

i hope this rambling word salad is useful to you <3
 
Hey I am new to this form and I have a question so here I go.

If I am going for a mix attacker Mega Salamence what IVs spread should it have because if I am going to a mix attacker it must have six IVs but I am getting tired of breeding to have a Salamence with six IVs so tips for creating a mix attacker and if this question doesn't belong here which form it should go too?

Thank you
 
Alright I am done creating my Battle Spot Single Team so time to showcase them:

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Return
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Blaziken @ Firium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adament Nature
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Protect
- Thunder Punch

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 140 HP / 116 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Fire Punch

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
- Horn Leech

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Protect

So please tell me which move/ pokemon to replace on this team to make them more effective in the higher tier, thank you
 
Tenno said:
Alright I am done creating my Battle Spot Single Team so time to showcase them:

So please tell me which move/ pokemon to replace on this team to make them more effective in the higher tier, thank you
Click to expand...

Start with a core of two (or 3) mons that complement each other, either having good offensive synergy or defensive synergy. Once you choose those 2 or 3 from your team (with an explanation of what you hope they do and maybe an idea of what they are weak against), i'll give you ideas.
 
1_TrickPhony said:
Start with a core of two (or 3) mons that complement each other, either having good offensive synergy or defensive synergy. Once you choose those 2 or 3 from your team (with an explanation of what you hope they do and maybe an idea of what they are weak against), i'll give you ideas.
Click to expand...

This team is using Alola-Muk as a special wall with Rotom-Wash and Celesteela as defensive wall depending on the match up with the rest of the team to take advantage Alola-Muk, Rotom-Wash, and Celesteela defensive capability with there offensive present and power.
 
Tenno said:
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Sassy Nature
Click to expand...

This is an inefficient spread. I know you were probably going for a "mixed defensive spread" but it's pretty easy to see that it's not efficient to apply a multiplicative boost to an uninvested stat. For instance, EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD Relaxed Nature lets you have the same amount of Defense stats, but you have 3 more extra special defense stats at no cost. I'm not saying this is the best Celesteela spread, but just that this is flat-out better than what you're using at no downsides.

stuff about special wall physical wall
Click to expand...

You don't have to make your team about 1 special wall 1 physical wall 1 special attacker 1 physical attacker. That's not how teams are called 'balanced'. Cover yourself against threats, not check for walls and attackers of each type. Check not for resistances to a type, but whether you can check specific relevant threats.

Currently, your team has decent defensive synergy but you are still quite weak to Naganadel, Gliscor, and you may be having a lot of issues playing around Volt Switch Tapu Koko due to a lack of Ground-types. I also think Double-Edge is better than Return on Mixmence. Other than that though your team's generally quite solid for a first team. No amount of talk and theorymon beats practice, though, so I encourage you to try it out yourself.
 
marilli said:
This is an inefficient spread. I know you were probably going for a "mixed defensive spread" but it's pretty easy to see that it's not efficient to apply a multiplicative boost to an uninvested stat. For instance, EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD Relaxed Nature lets you have the same amount of Defense stats, but you have 3 more extra special defense stats at no cost. I'm not saying this is the best Celesteela spread, but just that this is flat-out better than what you're using at no downsides.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that Celesteela spread will start cooking on it as soon as possible.


marilli said:
Currently, your team has decent defensive synergy but you are still quite weak to Naganadel, Gliscor, and you may be having a lot of issues playing around Volt Switch Tapu Koko due to a lack of Ground-types. I also think Double-Edge is better than Return on Mixmence. Other than that though your team's generally quite solid for a first team. No amount of talk and theorymon beats practice, though, so I encourage you to try it out yourself.
Click to expand...

For the match up with Naganadel and Gliscor the only of improving my match up against them is having Alola-Muk learn ice punch other than that what pokemon should I used that stop Naganadel, Gliscor, and volt switch Tapu Koko plus other pokemons that I may possibly face with this team?
Edit: Salamence learning return is an assurance of being good fighting condition and not weaken itself from recoil damage.
 
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I was thinking of running a team where Politoed could support both Mega Swampert with Drizzle and a Perish Trap Mega Gengar using its own Perish Song and an Eject Button to disrupt U-Turn/Volt Switch. Does this have potential? What could be some good team members for these three?

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Substitute

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Perish Song
- Substitute
- Protect

Politoed @ Eject Button
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Encore
- Perish Song
- Protect
 
@TyRayDew5

Probably want something to check zard-y, for a start.

The problem with eject button into mega gengar from someone who used to run eject button pex into gar/gothitelle is that mega gar does not start out mega'd so the guy can just switch out if he wants (yes you can sub but then you might be going into a disadvantageous matchup. I guess you can sort that somewhat by leading with gar.

Mega gyara, kommo-o, rotom-w and ferrothorn also just straight up beat your team with generally a lot of water/grass/ types being problematic. Some of the bulkier normals like kang/snorlax can also be issues.

Probably start from there
 
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