CAP 18 CAP 18 - Part 6 - Stat Spread Submissions

Status
Not open for further replies.
But analytic is meant to be a switching punisher not a reliable power boost. With a high speed you have offensive presence and a bonus boost from switching. Which is the point of this Cap's analytic ability I thought, right?
hmm. I never thought of it that way but it makes sense. I always thought analytic was good because it was on things that weren't fast and did not need to be because they could take hits to boost their attacks and essentially be a bulky sweeper. e.g. beeheeyem, magnezone, or porygon-z.
 
Final Submission

Okay, now I have my own spread. Unfortunately it has to be final because I won't be able to post again until after the deadline. Tell me what you think.
99 Hp/49 Atk/94 Def/147 SpAtk/ 105 SpDef/ 81 Spe BST: 575

PT: 159.708
PS: 71.5298
ST: 178.603
SS: 195.477
BSR: 333.1943

One of the main differentiations to my spread is the base speed. No one else has a base speed of 81. My reasoning for this is in my earlier post. (#31)

Another thing I want in our CAP is the ability to have more than one viable spread. In particular, I wanted to have Modest with Leftovers and Timid with Life Orb. I will show what both can do.

Note: I sometimes use Sludge Wave in my Calculations. I am not assuming CAP will have Sludge Wave, but rather it is a stand in for coverage, either SE or neutral where appropriate.

Leftovers, Modest, 248 Hp, 4 Def, 244 SpAtk, 12 SpDef

Here are the calcs, in a hide box to make the wall of text collapsible.
It beats Aegislash: the strongest Shadow Ball you'll normally face, on fast versions: 252 SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD CAP: 179-212 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Sheild: 392-464 (149.6 - 177%) -- guaranteed OHKO
For Lefties versions: 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 153-180 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 306-360 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

It can beat Azumarill 1v1 with either Sludge Wave (or any other SE coverage) or Burning:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 250-295 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 125-147 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 298-352 (73.7 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 153-180 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 390-460 (114 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Excadrill:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 390-458 (97.2 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Mega Mawile:
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 145-171 (36.1 - 42.6%) -- 95.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 173-204 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 291-342 (72.5 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 145-171 (36.1 - 42.6%) -- 95.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 450-530 (148 - 174.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Landorus-T:
16+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 348-410 (86.7 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 408-482 (101.7 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 674-794 (176.4 - 207.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gengar:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 181-214 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 355-418 (135.4 - 159.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 242-286 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Clefable:
defensive:
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 46-55 (11.4 - 13.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 192-228 (48.7 - 57.8%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
offensive:
252+ SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 65-77 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 235-277 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 180-214 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Clefable Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 248-292 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Clefable Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 166-196 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Togekiss:
4 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 91-108 (22.6 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 164-194 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 121-144 (30.1 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 220-260 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sylveon:
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 65-77 (16.2 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 150-178 (38 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mega Charizard Y:
4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 158-186 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 144-170 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 248-294 (83.5 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Heatran:
defensive:
4 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 156-184 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 218-258 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
offensive:
252 SpA Choice Specs Heatran Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 280-330 (69.8 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 390-458 (120.7 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
tank:
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 204-242 (50.8 - 60.3%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 300-354 (77.7 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 408-482 (105.6 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Talonflame:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 246-291 (61.3 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 552-650 (185.2 - 218.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hippowdon:
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Volcanion: 252-296 (62.8 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Volcanion Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 278-330 (66.1 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Latios:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 301-355 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 151-178 (37.6 - 44.3%)
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 149-176 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

Latias:
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 231-274 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 117-138 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 216-255 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244+ SpA Analytic Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 130-153 (43 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

Goodra:
252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Volcanion: 182-216 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
but more importantly:
244+ SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 58-69 (15.1 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO

Chansey:
244+ SpA Volcanion Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 102-120 (14.4 - 17%) -- possible 6HKO
Toxic kills CAP in 5 turns, and Chansey can heal off the damage easily.


Unfortunately, I don't have time to go through all the calcs, so instead I'll just make it a list: The calcs are above, in the hide box.
-Beats Aegislash, it can take 2 shadow balls from fast variants and 2 shadow balls + 1 sneak from lefties versions.
-Beats Azumarill 1v1, both fast versions and CB ones, unless the fast ones got a belly drum. But then it makes it much easier to revenge kill, lacking bulk and one quarter of its HP.
-Dies to Excadrill, who just outspeed and OHKOs, 81.3% of the time.
-It can beat Mawile, by switching in on both a SD or a Play Rough. With SD it can burn and kill, and switching in on the unboosted PR it can take both it and the Sucker Punch and OHKO.
-Usually can take defensive Lando-T's Earthquakes (18.8% chance to OHKO with 16+ Atk), but dies to offensive ones that easily OHKO.
-Counters Gengar lacking Thunderbolt
-Beats Clegable 1v1, but if offensive variants get a CM boost you will probably lose as it boosts and heals, until it has the firepower to kill you.
-Beats Togekiss, but without SE coverage hax is against you, with it you can still get into a pp war vs roost.
-You beat Sylveon, but like Togekiss, without SE coverage hax is against you, and you will get into a pp war.
-Beats MCharY 1v1 and can counter him if he's taken a little bit of damage (16.5%)
-Easily beats Heatran without Earth Power. With Earth Power, fast specs are OHKO'd by Scald, tanks are OHKO'd by Hydro Pump, and defensive ones are 2HKO'd by Scald, all while never being able to KO back.
-Beats Talonflame 1v1, but cannot counter it, as talon is OHKO'd by Scald and 2HKO's CAP
-Beats Hippowdon 1v1 by being faster and both getting 2HKOs
-Loses to Latios, who can 2HKO with Draco Meteor, while you usually would 2HKO but are outsped.
-Laitas just misses the 2HKO with Draco Meteor, but with SR or Thunderbolt she'll 2HKO, and you almost always fail to 2HKO her back.
-Goodra has a 2% chance to 2HKO, but you can only 6HKO with Sludge Wave
-The blobs beat it. Chansey can Toxic it to death while healing off the damage CAP can do easily. Blissey has an even easier time.



Life Orb, Timid, 4 Def, 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed

-Beats Aegislash, surviving a Shadow Ball + Sneak, but then dies to LO recoil
-Beats Azumarill 1v1 with Burns, or Sludge Wave + SR
-Beats Adamant Excadrill by outspeeding and OHKOing
-Can take a burnt +2 Mega Mawile's Sucker Punch
-Beats non-Jolly Landorus-T 1v1
-Checks all Gengar but counters none
-Against Fairies gets into a stalemate if you have Sludge Wave
-Counters Charizard Y 87.5% of the time without SR
-Beats Heatran and Talonflame
-Beats Hippowdon, sometimes can counter
-Latios kills him but is hurt a lot
-Latias may actually have trouble against CAP
-Goodra crushes it
-The blobs beat it

EDIT: I am editing in the calcs as I have time. Hopefully I'll get them done by the deadline. [crosses fingers]
Edit2: The tank spread has it's calcs done!
 
Last edited:
I want to point out that spreads with boundary-hugging Physical Tankiness accomplish a lot against our threat list that others don't. For instance, we can just survive Scarfchomp Earthquake, +6 Azumarill Aqua Jet, and +2 M-Mawile Sucker Punch if we hug the 160 PT limit. The latter two are particularly important as it lets us switch in on two threats we really want to be able to switch in on. It also lets us deal with any cheeky Aegislash who go for Shadow Claw instead of Shadow Ball; at around 160 PT we can take two Shadow Claws and a Shadow Sneak, assuming leftovers on both sides. We don't need more than ~170 ST to take a couple hits from Aegislash and Gengar, so I'm leaning towards spreads that have more balanced defenses.
 
Final Submission

75 HP / 48 Atk / 75 Def / 138 SpAtk /136 SpDef / 96 Speed
568 BST

106.9934 PT (Above Average)
190.4289 ST (Excellent)
75.9993 PS (Below Average)
213.3624 SS (Fantastic)
323.1668 BSR (Very Good)


Speed: I chose this for a few reasons. First off, it is higher than virtually all Ground types that this CAP is meant to handle. The only ones it underspeeds is Landorus-Incarnate and Garchomp, both of which are better handled by Latias. Furthermore, the only Aegislash that can outspeed it would require it to not increase its offensive stats through its nature. This would result in the CAP surviving the hit, triggering a guaranteed OHKO against Aegislash-Sword.

Special Attack: This is enough to hit hard (slightly higher SpAtk than Alakazam's, but significantly lower than Chandelure's) without being absurdly high and overpowered, also preserving a good bit of the Pokemon meant to check the CAP.
252+ SpA Expert Belt CAP Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 346-410 (106.7 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Goodra: 93-111 (24.2 - 28.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Analytic CAP Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 107-126 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- 87.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Analytic CAP Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 207-244 (28.9 - 34.1%)

This would still be the highest non-HP stat of any CAP thusfar, beating out Mollux by 7 points. I think an overly high offensive stat would make this Pokemon unbalanced and the SS limit would lower our Speed, allowing several key Pokemon (Landorus-Therian) to outspeed and tear the core apart.

Special Tankiness: Here is its ability to survive Aegislash's Shadow Ball.
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 160-188 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 160-188 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This is enough Special Bulk to effectively counter Aegislash, but ONLY if there are no entry hazards. I feel like this further increases our synergy with Defog Latias. Also, this still allows Rotom-Wash to come in and hit the CAP hard and also completely countering Mega-Charizard Y when there are no hazards and doing to same 87.5% of the time if Stealth Rock is up.
252 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 152-180 (42.9 - 50.8%)
4 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 156-186 (44 - 52.5%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 117-138 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 117-138 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
Physical Tankiness: Honestly, this CAP needs a weakness and it has been heavily implied throughout the last couple of steps of creation that we will have access to effective and efficient Burn methods, so that will provide an effective way to help this relatively low Physical Bulk. This Pokemon resists both of Mega Mawile's STABs and can potentially Will-o-Wisp through Sucker Punch, easily negating its most common sets allowing it to switch in (somewhat) safely, only really fearing Knock Off or a predicted Swords Dance.
252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def CAP: 104-122 (29.3 - 34.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def CAP: 252-297 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Choice Band Azumarill threatens a possible OHKO with both Waterfall and Superpower (which Latias can rather take safely) while Play Rough (the move that most threatens Latias) is still only a 2HKO after SR.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def CAP: 301-355 (85 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def CAP: 169-199 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 130-153 (43 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rather than having the CAP be able to single-handedly take all of Azumarill's attacks, it only has to be able to take the hits that Latias can't take from Azumarill. In the event of the Azumarill being Belly Drum, it will be up to Latias or possibly Lucario to get the revenge kill.
For (Mega) Tyranitar (whom neither core Member can switch in safely for), burns are incredibly critical for the CAP. Without the burn, it will have a guaranteed OHKO on the CAP or possibly either of our core members that switches in.
252+ Atk burned Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def CAP: 270-318 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def CAP: 464-548 (131 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 320-380 (105.9 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 328-388 (116.7 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I'm having to do all of this by hand with a calculator and a pen. I'd like to thank Elite Lord Sigma for pointing out that I was using the BW2 BSR, Albacore for extracting the formulae for me to use and DetroitLolcat for helping check my numbers. I couldn't have done this without them. <3
 
Last edited:
Final Submission

Wasn't sure if I wanted to post this but finally decided to.
82/50/106/128/111/93

PT: 158.992
ST: 167.358
PS: 77.1239
SS: 190.221
BSR: 325.6547
BST: 570

The basic idea of this spread is to focus on Physical Tankiness as much as possible; it has just enough in the special stats to deal with Aegislash (and by extension most of our threat list) and enough speed to deal with Landorus-T however we need to. With the PT just about maxed within the limit, this spread can survive most of the boosted physical attacks our threats list can throw at us, including +6 Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Scarf Garchomp's Earthquake. It also helps us utilize Will-o-Wisp on powerful physical attackers. At the same time, the ST is not incredibly high, meaning that Goodra, Lati@s, and Rotom-W all have an easier time dealing damage to this spread. The HP is lowish, encouraging a 252 HP EV investment. Speed could be invested if needed, but going max speed Life Orb with no Latias support would leave it without much bulk and only okay speed.

I'm mostly thinking of a 252 HP / 252 SpA Modest EV spread, with Leftovers, Assault Vest, and Specs being viable options. 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid could work, especially with Specs or Assualt Vest, but would mostly be for outspeeding Jolly Landorus-T. The ST is enough not to need Assault Vest to do what it needs to, which naturally leaves it high enough to be good with AV equipped. 252 HP / 252 Def or 252 HP / 252 SpD could also be viable with this spread; whichever way you invest, your other defense won't be too shabby, and either way works well with Will-o-Wisp.

I'll try to use calcs to convince you that the Special stats are indeed sufficient, and that the high PT is a good idea. You've already seen a lot of calcs for similar SpA stats, so I'll focus on defensive calcs.

252+ SpA CAP18 Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 324-384 (100 - 118.5%)

This is important, and what 128 SpA just allows us to do.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 147-174 (39.9 - 47.2%)
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 58-70 (15.7 - 19%)

factoring in 2 turns of leftovers, CAP18 will almost always survive two Shadow Balls plus a Shadow Sneak. So that's two switch-ins to Aegislash where it is forced to switch or die. The same is true for physical Aegislash using Shadow Claw + Shadow Sneak.

252 SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 173-204 (47 - 55.4%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So this spread stands a good chance of not being 2HKOed by Life Orb Aegislash, as well.


252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 120-142 (32.6 - 38.5%)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 156-185 (42.3 - 50.2%)

CAP18 can KO back with Surf or Flamethrower. This spread has the ST necessary to switch in on Gengar and force it out.


+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 313-369 (85 - 100.2%)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 303-357 (82.3 - 97%)

By extension, you are never 2HKOed by AV Azumarill's Waterfall or CB Azumarill's Play Rough. Will-o-Wisp is still better vs. Mega Mawile but this way it's not necessary.


252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 176-208 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 190-225 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

AV Goodra is more likely than not to KO this spread with Thunderbolt + Draco Meteor. Considering that we outspeed it, it's important that it can 2HKO and not have to take 4 attacks when trying to counter us.


252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 312-368 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 312-368 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 228-270 (61.9 - 73.3%)
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 354-416 (96.1 - 113%)
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 372-438 (101 - 119%)

We can't take all of the Earthquakes, but a small investment in Def EV's could help a lot with Excadrill (or a large investment in Speed EV's). Checking Scarfchomp and M-Char X when SR is not around is pretty superb.
 
Last edited:

DetroitLolcat

Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
All right, I've been sort of busy for the last couple days and haven't been able to respond in this thread, but it's time to give some feedback about some of the spreads that have been posted. I'm only going to respond to spreads that are Final Submissions in the interests of time, but please send me a PM if you'd like some additional commentary/questions answered. Speaking of Final Submissions, remember to make your spread a Final Submission if you want it considered for slating by the Stats TLT.

jas61292 - I was originally not a fan of this spread, but the reasoning makes too much sense. This is one of if not the only spread that maximizes our ability Analytic, and it still lets us check Aegislash because it creates the incentive to run 252 HP rather than 252 Speed. I'm not the biggest fan of losing to Excadrill 1v1, however, especially since the "[Excadrill] is not the greatest threat to either of our other two mons if they are already in" argument falls flat if Latias isn't carrying the rare Surf. If Excadrill is holding an Assault Vest or Choice Scarf, we're in deeper trouble. One other concern I have is that Choice Specs were barely taken into account in the calculation section, as this spread seems very conducive to Choice Specs just as much as it is to Leftovers. With Choice Specs, this spread crushes Rotom-W, and I'm a bit concerned that Analytic, Choice Specs, 147 SpA, and 110 BP moves might combine for too much power. On the positive side, I love this spread's unique approach to Aegislash and the reasoning behind the Speed stat. Well done.

Deck Knight - As far as "fast" spreads go, this is a good one. Although I'm a bit concerned that combining the Special Attack required for this project and 103 Speed will just make for a very good Pokemon, at least the raw Special Attack stat is more limited than others. The reasons for 103 Speed are pretty clear: outspeeding Garchomp and Mega Charizard, making this really the only set well-equipped to run Choice Scarf (at the very least, it's the best set for running Scarf). I'm not too convinced CAP18 will make for a great Scarfer with this spread, as it might not be able to revenge the Charizards or Garchomp without coverage, and any Scarfer is by default Sucker Punch bait.

Albacore -I like this spread's versatility, and the calculations back up what we want this concept to fulfill. I believe Bulk is being greatly overlooked in this debate, but your spread lets us actually switch into Shadow Ball whether or not we decide to invest. That's a big positive. This Pokemon can switch into Mega Mawile, Azumarill if it's feeling risky, and Aegislash and force them all out, and that's really what we're looking for in this CAP. A Pokemon like this is going to lure in Pokemon such as Chansey that Lucario can threaten, as well. Very nice spread.

alexwolf - I agree with srk1214's assessment of this spread. I like that this spread is limited where it needs to be; it can't muscle through its supposed counters without weather up, and it's pretty clear that you looked over the Threats Discussion well. Although this spread doesn't really fit in with the Build Triangle, it doesn't violate it either. The only part of the Triangle this spread definitely fulfills is Powerful, as 95 Speed isn't particularly "Fast" without priority (that isn't to say CAP18 won't have priority, but at the moment we do not and our STABs aren't conducive to a priority attack) and 100/80/100 is only moderately Bulky with the mediocre defensive typing we have. I like this spread a lot, the only concern I have is the high Special Attack stat, as that sort of power combined with Analytic or Choice Specs (or both!) makes CAP18 into a nuclear reactor capable of beating Latios and more.

hendrix96 - The Speed concerns I have are similar to those I have with Deck Knight's spread, i.e., I don't really believe that sort of Speed is necessary. Garchomp runs Choice Scarf or Garchompite so often that speed creeping Garchomp can be a futile effort, and our typing isn't particularly great for a Choice Scarfer to outspeed Garchomp with. You mention that your spread is capable of OHKOing Aegislash with a Life Orb, but remember that your proposed Special Attack stat of 125 is on the low end compared to some of the other spreads posted, and forcing CAP18 to run Life Orb is a massive damper for its bulk. You talk about being a perfect Aegislash counter, but your own calculations belie this: Aegislash can do nearly 90% damage to this spread with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak, and a Spell Tag/Spooky Plate Aegislash set will beat this set or at the very least force a double KO with Life Orb recoil. A high Special Attack set can't really be a selling point of this spread when most other submissions are even more powerful. What I'd like to see is why we only need 125 Special Attack as opposed to 130 or 140, as that's going to be a contentious issue in the polls. Furthermore, this set has pretty average bulk compared to others; can we really counter Aegislash with only 99/91/85 defenses? Are you expecting CAP18 to invest in these defenses?

gangl4f - This set is predicated on creating the incentive to run 252 HP and no Speed, but why is that a good thing? As I was reading your post, I was thinking "yes, I definitely agree that I would run bulky EVs on this Pokemon", but I didn't really understand why that's a benefit for the concept. Not running Speed on this spread means we're not going to be faster than Excadrill or Landorus-Therian, two Pokemon we would like to threaten. Although those Pokkemon definitely don't want to switch into CAP18, they beat your spread one-on-one if we use the EVs you suggest. You propose that we want to be a slower, bulkier pivot-like Pokemon, but the higher-than-average Speed and lower-than-average bulk on this spread hardly help that case.

Pata Hikari - Looking at your Physical Tankiness rating, I believe you've neglected to comment on Pokemon such as Mega Mawile and Azumarill, who we need to do well against because of how well they deal with Lucario and Latias. Writing off Physical attackers as a whole doesn't seem to benefit our core when Mawile and Azumarill are such problems to the Pokemon we're building our core around. Your Speed stat mentions Landorus-T as the Pokemon you want to outpace, but most Landorus-T either don't run max Speed or run a Choice Scarf, meaning CAP18's max Speed investment is either going to be overkill or insufficient depending on the Landorus-T we're facing. There are some good ideas here (Assault Vest, outspeeding Mega Garchomp), but I need to see some of the above concerns addressed.

finnaggann - There needs to be more here. A few calculations about Aegislash are not sufficient in explaining your spread. There are numerous other Pokemon we need to threaten and be threatened by, and although Aegislash might be public enemy #1 it's certainly not the only scourge of Lucario and Latias. 120 Special Attack definitely does not speak for itself, especially since it's the lowest Special Attack posted so far. This needs specific justification, and right now that's not there.

Yoshuriken - Unfortunately, I do need to see the calcs that go along with the spread you've posted. I don't doubt that your spread does everything you're saying it does, but some of the terms you used ("Beats Aegislash", etc.) are ambiguous and need to be supported by calculations and supplementary text. I'd like to know exactly what you mean by "Beats Aegislash", as the question really isn't whether or not CAP18 should beat Aegislash (it should), but to what extent should we beat Aegislash? Can you switch into Shadow Ball once? Twice? What about Shadow Sneak, or if Stealth Rock is down? A list of attributes isn't going to be enough for this spread to move on, is there more you can add?

Dragonblaze052 - For starters, there are a few mistakes/unclear points in the first two paragraphs. Aegislash can increase its offensive stats and outspeed CAP18 by running a 252 <attacking stat> / 252 Speed spread with a Speed-boosting nature, but I agree that doing so leads to a nice KO against Aegislash-S. You say that base 138 Special Attack isn't "overly high", but concede that it's a historically high stat by CAP standards and it's one of the highest Special Attack posted so far. I need to see some calculations that back up your claim that this Special Attack stat isn't overly high, especially since it's on the high end by OU, CAP, and this thread's standards. The Special Tankiness and Physical Tankiness explanations need to be further explained, especially the latter. How does this Pokemon fare against Mega Mawile? Azumarill? Just how important is it that we Burn specific opponents if Burn is our main source of Physical bulk? There are some good ideas in this spread, but some time with the Damage Calculator would make this spread much nicer. (Also, for the record, Alakazam has base 135 SpA, not 138.)
 
Finally got a chance to make changes to mine, mainly a sizable reduction in Physical defense because I found it wasn't necessary for it to be so high. It shouldn't be on the edge of BSR abuse anymore.
 
Regarding the point about Aegislash not being able to increase its offenses, I meant via natures. I've editted my post to clear that up, thank you.
When I say my SpAtk is "not overly high" I mean in relation to the other submitted spreads. I did a quick scan of the other submissions just now and saw 6 posts with more SpAtk and 14 with less SpAtk and 5 of the ones with less were within 3 points of mine (I probably counted some of them more than once due to quoting or revisions). I feel that this puts mine more or less towards the middle of the suggested SpAtk's rather than being one of the highest posted so far.
I'll run a few calcs to support my bulk and update it in a bit.
I was doing some last minute tweaks while typing out my post. I thought I had caught all the mentions of 135 SpAtk, but it seems I missed the Alakazam one. Thanks for catching it. XD
 
hendrix96 - The Speed concerns I have are similar to those I have with Deck Knight's spread, i.e., I don't really believe that sort of Speed is necessary. Garchomp runs Choice Scarf or Garchompite so often that speed creeping Garchomp can be a futile effort, and our typing isn't particularly great for a Choice Scarfer to outspeed Garchomp with. You mention that your spread is capable of OHKOing Aegislash with a Life Orb, but remember that your proposed Special Attack stat of 125 is on the low end compared to some of the other spreads posted, and forcing CAP18 to run Life Orb is a massive damper for its bulk. You talk about being a perfect Aegislash counter, but your own calculations belie this: Aegislash can do nearly 90% damage to this spread with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak, and a Spell Tag/Spooky Plate Aegislash set will beat this set or at the very least force a double KO with Life Orb recoil. A high Special Attack set can't really be a selling point of this spread when most other submissions are even more powerful. What I'd like to see is why we only need 125 Special Attack as opposed to 130 or 140, as that's going to be a contentious issue in the polls. Furthermore, this set has pretty average bulk compared to others; can we really counter Aegislash with only 99/91/85 defenses? Are you expecting CAP18 to invest in these defenses?
okay let me set up and example, you have latias out your foe switches aegislash in, on the switch you defogged. But now latias is going to die if she stays in and lucario to frail to take shadowball on the switch, but Mr.C.a.p can comes in takes a shadowball to the face and then ohko with a modest nature taking into account the evasion drop, fire blast is generally going to hit and since your faster then him, as long as he doesnt run a choice item you can pretty much consistently Kill Aegislash.You menationed a spooky plate aegislash, how does that beat my set? Leftovers aegislash is ohko from fire blast so how does spooky plate do anything that the life orb doesn't do offensively or left overs do defensively. A life orb ball sneak combo does have a chance ko cap before attack but its 10% chance, so yes I took away perfect counter but it is a great counter in my opinion. that speed stat although can be used to outspeed is really meant to justify a tank set with bulk and SpA investestment and no speed investment you have speed stat of 244 that outspeeds fully invested jolly t-tar, and 252+ Spe aegislash so although yes it relatively high it allows to out speed slow powerhouses with out investment and gives you ability to invest in bulk an power which gives you a chance at taking an scarfed garchomp's earthquake ohko chomp after because of the analytic boost. Or take An outrage from garchomp and Ohko him with analytic boost.
like I said to finnagin i think analytic is not meant to be a sheerforce for slowmons but more of a lenient shadow tag. I see the cap like mega gengar it comes when it can and traps the foe(although gengar actually traps the foe)by punishing switches, this allows it to act as a pokemon that can take the cores threat down, sort of like destiny bond. without speed it loses some of it's offensive presence in the meta, sure the cap could be nuke with the other spreads which has it benefits for sure. But with a high speed you are more of a roleplayer being just bulky enough to take some decent hits and having enough speed and spa to put some major offensive pressure.
so yeah
hopefully that clarifies why I feel the way I do about speed and aegislash.

thanks for your insight it's greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I wanted to bring attention to a discussion we had on IRC a while ago. The fact of the matter is, Aegislash isn't guaranteed to be at full HP when our CAP comes to attack it. It switching in on Latias to trap it is a very likely scenario, and it won't necessarily switch in on Defog. At one point, we actually calculated how much Special Attack it would take to KO Aegislash after taking a Draco Meteor from Latias as it switches in to trap it. I think it's important to know exactly which SpA stat can do against Aegislash in each scenario before deciding which spread to go for.

Therefore, I've decided to post some "power tiers". We all know the relevant speed tiers : outspeeding Excadrill, Landorus-T, Garchomp, etc. Power tiers actually show how much SpA we need to OHKO Aegislash in certain scenarios. I'll only do it for Live Orb and Leftovers and either 252+ or 252 SpA investment, and i'll assume Fire Blast is the move of choice. The Latias in question has Life Orb. The Aegislash we're trying to beat has Leftovers. The "3 turns of Leftovers recovery" are because the first turn, Latias will hit, the second, it will switch out, and the third, Aegislash will use King's Shield.

With Leftovers and a Modest nature :
  • 106 SpA is enough to OHKO after a Life Orb Shadow Ball from Latias and 3 turns of Leftovers recovery
  • 130 SpA is enough to OHKO after a Life Orb HP Fire from Latias and 3 turns of Leftovers recovery
  • 144 SpA is enough to OHKO after a Life Orb Draco Meteor from Latias and 3 turns of Leftovers recovery
  • 147 SpA is enough to OHKO after a Life Orb Thunderbolt from Latias and 3 turns of Leftovers recovery
  • 160 SpA is enough to OHKO at full health
With Life Orb and a Timid nature :
  • 102 SpA is enough to OHKO after a Life Orb HP Fire from Latias and 3 turns of Leftovers recovery
  • 115 SpA is enough to OHKO after a Life Orb Draco Meteor or Thunderbolt from Latias and 3 turns of Leftovers recovery
  • 128 SpA is enough to OHKO at full health
With Life Orb and a Modest nature :
  • 101 SpA is enough to OHKO after a Life Orb Draco Meteor or Thunderbolt from Latias and 3 turns of Leftovers recovery
  • 112 SpA is enough to OHKO at full health
I hope this helps.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Hm, so I was supposed to comment last night before my roommate decided to become so drunk that he more or less needed nurse srk1214 to keep him alive #springfling

DetroitLolcat covered most of the things I would have wanted to say about a few of the spreads that I hadn't yet commented on. There are many others neither he nor I touched on in this thread. However, as we are closer to the deadline now, I'm not sure me adding comments on other spreads will be of much use. I will say however, that I went back and reconsidered all spreads that got edits since my last post, and my slate has changed substantially. I'll provide a clear summary of all the spreads that I slate and a few that narrowly miss the cut in a few hours.

This is one final reminder to MARK YOUR POST AS A FINAL SUBMISSION! Going to be a nice guy and specifically tag those who seem to have missed DLC's warning:

Elite Lord Sigma wh0sy0urpapa Albacore all 3 of you put in good work that might merit slating, but it can't happen if you don't mark as Final.
 

Birkal

We have the technology.
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnus
CAP Head Mod
FINAL SUBMISSION

130 HP / 50 Atk / 76 Def / 140 SpA / 76 SpD / 93 Spe
565 BST
PT: 151.383
ST: 159.465
PS: 77.124
SS: 208.668
BSR: 332.105


Hello! Birkal and ginganinja both reporting in for the collaboration of this spread. My comments start with orange text (Birkal), while his begin with green (ginganinja). We took a similar sort of approach to creating the stats for CAP16 (Malaconda), and thought it'd be fun to create a spread together again for this CAP.

The two of us were talking on IRC the other night. While we like many of the spreads already presented, we felt them all to be a bit lacking in a few departments. A bit more physical bulk is something I've been pushing for in combination with fearsome Special Attack, while ginganinja has been searching for a spread that hits a specific special tankiness situation and moderate speed. Our common goal with this spread is to force CAP18 to choose which threats it wants to beat based on EV distribution. I'll let him explain with more detail.

So this spread was created by Birkal and I, and it resolved around my preference of creating a spread that required certain trade offs. Currently, I looked at most of the spreads available, and saw that this CAP would very likely be running a Modest Nature, which, with Analytic, could nuke our switch-ins heavily. I wanted to avoid a situation where this CAP could just run a 4/0 spread, avoid a 2HKO from Aegislash, and nuke utterly everything switching in with a STAB Fire Blast. I was particularly concerned that this CAP's offensive prowess could easily get out of hand with both Charizard-Y and Politoed being decent choices in this metagame, which would naturally boost this CAP's power through the roof thanks to its STABs. I wanted there to be trade-offs somewhere.


Defenses

For starters, this is the most physically bulky spread currently out there, which was unplanned but I don't see it as an issue. It allows this CAP to take some strong hits without investment, letting it take some decent hits from Pokemon on our threatlist.

48+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 422-500 (90.9 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 413-486 (89 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 300-354 (64.6 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 302-356 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 199-235 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 410-486 (88.3 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO


As you can see, this CAP still doesn't take STAB Super Effective moves very well, though it can barely survive some if required. Notably, it can switch into Azumarill fairly easily, which is very helpful. Calculations such as this allow this CAP to switch up its EV spread. It can run physical bulk, and act as a defensive pivot, while perhaps catching out the odd Scarf Chomp if it wants to be gimmicky and run 252 HP 252 Def 4 SpA Modest / Bold, and troll it with a WoW, but again, this requires power sacrifices elseware, such as speed and (some) power.

I'm a big fan of the physical bulk invested in this spread. 130/76 is no joke, and it allows CAP18 to take on some physical threats given the right EV spread. Our usable base 93 speed also provides feasibility for Will-O-Wisp down the road, meaning this Pokemon can actually tank some physical hits thanks to the burn. Azumarill's got nothing on CAP18 thanks to this spread, which is great considering how threatening it is to our core currently. Being able to tweak EVs to avoid OHKOs from Landorus-T Earthquake and +2 Mawile's Sucker Punch is also advantageous. Let's check out some special calculations.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 201-237 (43.3 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 242-285 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 347-409 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Yes, this CAP doesn't take hits as cleanly as perhaps some of the other spreads do, but in my view, that's fine. We set out with the goal of this CAP being able to survive two Modest Shadow Balls from Leftovers Aegislash, with Sandstorm being factored in, provided this CAP ran 252 HP. This was to provide a trade off for those that want to run 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed CAP 18. You can still run a set like this, and with 140 SpA + Modest + Analytic + LO, you still have massive power, but you can no longer expect to handle Aegislash, as I said, you have choices. Likewise if you want to be able to handle LO Thunderbolt Gengar, you can run a 252 HP 252 Calm set and have a 75% shot to avoid the 2KO with Leftovers, or you can run 252 HP / 72 SDef / Rest in SpA Modest with Assault Vest and avoid a 3KO while still having nice power.

I'm convinced now that losing to Aegislash without investment is the way to go for this CAP. Letting this Pokemon run around with Analytic and great SpA is frightening, so setting up an intentional boundary where it loses to our number one threat is advisable. Sandstorm is frequently up when Aegislash is on the field, and it's important to consider that hazards might play a role in CAP18's entry. Being intentional about EV spreads is going to make all the difference here. If a battler handles Aegislash outside of the core, then feel free to invest EVs in a powerhouse distribution, great. But if you're looking to stop Aegislash from murdering this core specifically, running full HP EVs with Leftovers is going to be your best bet.

As a quick side note, 130 HP gives this spread a lot of distinct advantages. Reaching 464 HP with a maximum EV spread is a magic Leftovers number, which further supports the notion of using CAP18 primarily for bulk. Setting up 101 HP Substitutes with only 12 EVs is pretty cute as well. This thing can also pass off massive Wishes to its teammates, which would certainly play an interesting dynamic with Analytic. Finally, having such a large HP stat gives us the flexibility to tinker with both physical and special defense. While the Aegislash calculations are arguably the most important, let's not forget our other threats, many of which are primarily physical.


Offenses

Yeah so I can add more offensive calcs, but Aegislash is really the crucial one I wanted to mention, because since we threaten to basically OHKO it, its not staying in, ergo we can nuke something else.

252+ SpA CAP18 Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 294-348 (90.7 - 107.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA CAP18 Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 288-342 (74.6 - 88.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Agree with ginganinja here. I'm also running out of time to post, but 140 SpA with Analytic is a nuke. If you've been following this thread, you know how nuts this CAP is going to be with Fire Blast and Hydro Pump as main STABs. Of course choiced items and Life Orb are going to be useful on this Pokemon, but we'd like to think that it won't see much use inside the core unless it's going with a defensive item like Leftovers or Assault Vest. The important point here is that CAP18 can hit like a truck without any sort of offensive item, which gives it more flexibility to invest in defenses (which it needs to to beat our threats).


Final Thoughts

In developing this
spread, we decided upon three different EV spreads. You can go 4/0 sweeper style, and abuse Analytic and your excellent SpA, as well as your decent speed, to nuke through things, especially with the help of a boosting item. You can partner yourself with Zard Y, or Politoed, and end up doing around 70-80% to 4/0 Latias (Latios takes 95% max switching in), and act as a rather solid wall breaker with LO. You can run Choice Specs with sunlight/rain, and abuse that glorious SpA, and end up doing 95% max to a Latias as it switches in, also very nice. With all that said, you suffer trade offs. If you want to hole punch for Lucario, you have to accept that Aegislash can and will 2KO you with Shadow Ball, if you want to switch into Aegislash, you (ideally) want to run Leftovers, and give up some of that power while lowering your speed enough to be revenged by a large number of pokemon. If you want to utterly wall the everloving shit out of Aegislash, or if you really don't want to be destroyed by Garchomp, you can try running 252 / 252 defensive spreads, and go tanky, with Assault Vest always being a nice option. Basically, you have the customization with this EV spread, which you might not get with another spread, which is what I particularly enough about it, since you can pick and choose what role you want this CAP to have in your core, with relation to Lucario.

This spread has much to offer that you can't get anywhere else at the moment. Being build specifically on tradeoffs means that CAP18 is going to need to choose what it wants to beat within the context of the core. There's no way to prevent a Water / Fire Pokemon with huge Special Attack and Analytic from being used as a powerhouse unless you force it to run some defensive investments to beat its primary threats. 93 speed lets us break through Mega Garchomp and Excadrill if you decide that's what is important. But ultimately, this spread is all about picking and choosing our fights in order to balance out CAP18 in relation to this core's primary threats.
 
Last edited:
Pata Hikari - Looking at your Physical Tankiness rating, I believe you've neglected to comment on Pokemon such as Mega Mawile and Azumarill, who we need to do well against because of how well they deal with Lucario and Latias. Writing off Physical attackers as a whole doesn't seem to benefit our core when Mawile and Azumarill are such problems to the Pokemon we're building our core around. Your Speed stat mentions Landorus-T as the Pokemon you want to outpace, but most Landorus-T either don't run max Speed or run a Choice Scarf, meaning CAP18's max Speed investment is either going to be overkill or insufficient depending on the Landorus-T we're facing. There are some good ideas here (Assault Vest, outspeeding Mega Garchomp), but I need to see some of the above concerns addressed.
Hmm? I did address Mega Mawlie and Azumarill. While CAP can't switch into Azumarill, it can't switch into CAP either as it fails to OHKO with Aqua Jet with a bit of HP investment so it will be burned, and Mega Mawlie can be switched into, as with the same HP CAP can take a Play Rough and put Mawlie in a tough spot. If it tries to Sucker Punch it can get burned, it's outsped otherwise and if it tries to use a set up move like Swords Dance it could just get OHKOed with SE STAB.

Azumarill will have to be covered at the movepool stage mostly. There's only so much we can do with it from stats alone since it resists both of CAP's STABS.

And if the CAP is good enough Landorus-T will start running Max Speed. I was kind of preempting that.
 
Last edited:
I updated my submission with more reasoning
hopefully this helps people understand my thinking a little better although I already know that my stats are not going to win, I do really hope they get slated.
 
Final Submission

HP: 84 / Attack: 55 / Defense: 99 / Special Attack: 130 / Special Defense: 99 / Speed: 103

570 BST

PT 150.93/ ST 152.1/ PS 88.87/ SS 214.7

BSR: 334.03

It is at 103 speed because it outspeeds garchomp and still outspeeds jolly excadrill even when using modest nature.

With 130 Special attack it can OHKO aegislash using fire blast while holding a life orb. It can also OHKO using fire blast while holding an expert belt with a modest nature.

Physical Tankiness is at a spot where it can tank play rough and sucker punch very well with 252 HP EVs and can OHKO with fire blast even while holding leftovers.

Special tankiness might seem low but it's really not. When you can OHKO aegislash all you need to tank is one shadow ball and a shadow sneak and this is enough to do that, even without HP investment.

3 viable EV spreads i can see with these stats:

252 SpA/ 252+ Spe
Basic sweepy spread.
252+ SpA/ 252 Spe
Alternate sweepy spread for when more power is needed.
252 HP/ 252+SpA
Bulky Offensive spread to beat the likes of mega mawile.

not enough time to explain very well because the thread closes in like 3 minutes and i don't expect to be slated but i thought id at least try.

252 SpA Life Orb Volcanion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 330-390 (101.8 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 160-190 (51.6 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 63-75 (20.3 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 140-165 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 166-196 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Volcanion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 410-486 (134.8 - 159.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Last edited:

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I tried to represent a wide range of opinions in this slate, while still keeping in mind our concept's goals.

On the slow side, jas61292's spread demonstrated by far the most restraint overall, except for in its nuke power. Yoshuriken's spread was pushing it for me on being too good overall in bulk and power, as more or less a souped-up version of jas61292's spread. Although I think that can possibly still be kept in check by its low speed, I am concerned by the fact that it would have little reason not to just run a Choice Specs set and function outside of this core entirely. As a result, it ended up being cut, although I wanted to provide a range in speed. It just didn't make enough of a sacrifice in bulk to justify such a nuke power. jas61292's spread falls into the "very powerful, not bulky or fast" category, but Yoshuriken's unfortunately has too much power to be merely powerful instead of "very powerful." And once you cross that threshold, neither speed nor bulk can be particularly good. This spread has too much bulk for that to be justified, and so it regrettably was cut.

Speedy spreads next. Though it had some support, and I know he's a CAP veteran who has won many polls, in the end I had to disqualify Deck Knight's spread as it just doesn't really have much of a downside. It was the most powerful spread submitted here by far, and as enough people provided good reasoning for why their less powerful spreads were sufficient, I couldn't get past 103 speed without a notable drawback elsewhere. Going to 103 speed is nice for outspeeding Garchomp, but as many Garchomp are Scarf or Mega, I’m not sure how important that will be. Much more important however is outrunning the 100s and Landorus-I, two things I’m not positive we need to or should be doing. In exchange for beating something like Landorus-I, which is a massive benefit, there really needed to be some sort of drawback. Deck’s spread didn’t have one. The manipulative 41 attack didn't do it many favors either. The more I thought about it the more I wondered if I should slate something that looks like borderline BSR abuse. As more diverse spreads continued to come in over this last day, I became more and more convinced I should leave it off. This is a particularly strange feeling for me, given how frequently in the past Deck Knight and I have agreed in this stats stage. I definitely contemplated putting hendrix96's spread in its place so we'd have a fast spread, but 146 ST was very low to be justified as having community support when the average was so much higher (around 180). This was the single largest deviation from the consensus on any of the individual categories of the spreads that I heavily considered. That's just too far off for my taste. A similar spread with higher ST in place of lower PT definitely would have been slated, but this version is just too frail to reliably switch into Aegislash and Gengar multiple times. So even though it was the only fast spread I had left to consider, I still had to think very long and hard about it. In the end, providing at least one 103+ option prevailed, and so hendrix96's submission will make the slate, though it is the spread about which I am least certain.

The middling speed spreads were much harder to sort through. Albacore's spread was an easy one to slate since it was the only that sat at 89 speed and it provided by far the clearest preference for bulk over power. alexwolf's was the next to be added, being the most balanced spread in the middle speed group. Scoopapa's spread and the combo spread of Birkal and ginganinja occupied a similar space, focusing on a higher PT. Birkal and ginga claim being dissatisfied with the other options, but after a good long talk with DetroitLolcat about this, I personally concluded that their fears are misguided (DLC was less certain one way or another). Scoopapa’s offers marginally less MORE (oops I made a typo initially) bulk, while Birkal/ginganinja’s offers considerably more power. That’s not an even trade off. I don’t personally feel nuke power is justified at this middle speed range unless there is a notable weakness in bulk. Therefore I am slating Scoopapa’s spread but not Birkal/ginganinja’s. (pls don’t loathe me birkal.) Clankenator007's spread was then the most powerful and most physically frail in the bunch, offering the sort of downside I wish I had seen in Birkal/ginganinja’s spread but wasn’t there. I am a little worried it is too frail on the physical side, but his calculations showed it to just narrowly get by my threshold in that respect. ganj4lF asked his not be slated, and Pata Hikari's and Dragonblaze052's were definitely too frail on the physical side, as DetroitLolcat pointed out. Finally, wh0sy0urpapa and Salt the Flesh occupied a similar space, focusing on lower power and bulk very skewed towards ST. As wh0sy0urpapa’s was more unique, selling itself on high ST, I chose that one for the slate.

Any other spreads not mentioned here just didn't have enough explanation for me to really consider them. For future reference, if you're going to make stats submissions, you have to lay out a clear case. It's not the job of the Stats TLT to plug your spreads into calculators to get results nor is it their job to interpret those results and why they are good. The spreads that were slated all did a good job of that.

So here's my slate, organized by speed to avoid showing any personal biases in ordering:

jas61292
Albacore
Scoopapa
wh0sy0urpapa
Clankenator007
alexwolf
hendrix96
 
Last edited:

DetroitLolcat

Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I talked with srk1214 extensively about this slate and am very pleased with the decisions he's made with these options. The only modification I considered making to this slate was removing Clankenator007's for the low PT, but CAP18 will likely have ways around its low PT in the form of Burn spreading and the possibility of investing in HP or Defense. Furthermore, deleting that spread from the slate would greatly marginalize the crowd who wish to sacrifice (Physical) Bulk in the Build Triangle, and I believe that's something the polls, not the TL, should decide.

So no changes to this slate. Thank you all for a very nice discussion, both here and on IRC. See you all in the polls! :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top