CAP 25 - Part 8 - CAP 25w Stat Spread Submissions

[Quanyails]

Following the results of this thread, it is time to submit stat spreads! This is the submission thread for CAP 25w. Please pay close attention to our stats leader, jas61292!

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NEW: This is a Celebration CAP, meaning that we are going out of our way to break some rules. We'll be creating a set of three Pokemon this time around, a set of Fire, Water, and Grass-type starters! You can read exactly which rules we'll be breaking here and the logic behind Celebration CAPs here. Give these a read-through to get some context.

CAP 25 Grass-type stat spread submissions: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-25-part-8-cap-25g-stat-spread-submissions.3641269/
CAP 25 Fire-type stat spread submissions: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-25-part-8-cap-25f-stat-spread-submissions.3641270/
CAP 25 Water-type stat spread submissions: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-25-part-8-cap-25w-stat-spread-submissions.3641271/

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In this thread, you may post work-in-progress and final stat spreads for the community and the TLT's consideration, and make comments on other peoples' submissions. The Stats Leader, jas61292, will decide on a slate for voting based on the community's input. In the Stats Limits thread, the Stats Leader decided on the following limits:

Limits:

Physical Sweepiness: Limit is 125
Physical Tankiness: Limit is 180
Special Sweepiness: Limit is 115
Special Tankiness: Limit is 160

BSR: Limit is 290

BSR ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND WILL NOT BE SLATED!

BSR abuse is doing things like 150 HP and 70 Def/SpD to create a theoretical optimum with the limits that you have. The purpose of the stat rating limits is to restrict what submitters can do, not to give them a license to game the system. If you cannot justify your stats legitimately and have not proven that you aren't just making the best stats within the limits, you will not get slated.

A spreadsheet for calculating the biases can be found here. The formulas themselves can be found here. Do not use the BSR calculator on-site, as it is designed for DPP BSR. To use the spreadsheet, you will need Microsoft Excel 2007 or higher, OpenOffice.org Calc 3 or higher, or a similar spreadsheet program that can handle .xlsx files. Alternatively, you can upload the spreadsheet onto Google Docs. You must have the stat rating values listed correctly in your submission or it will be ignored for the slate.

When you are satisfied with your stat submission, mark it as finished by writing "Final Submission" (bolded) at the top of your post.

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CAP 25 so far:

Topic Leader: reachzero

Topic Leadership Team:
EpicUmbreon29 - Typing
snake_rattler - Ability
jas61292 - Stats
cbrevan - Movepool

Name: Starter Trio CAPs

Description: This CAP is not one Pokemon, but three seperate Pokemon, based off of a Grass/Water/Fire starter trio.

Explanation: There is rarely such thing as a competitively viable starter Pokemon in the OU metagame, rare exceptions being Serperior, Greninja, and Blaziken for their insanely powerful abilities, and Infernape for his speed and movepool. Running three seperate CAP Processes with different Concepts can be loads of fun, and a nice way to celebrate CAP with our own starter trio! I'd love to see what the artists can come up with, and what pre-evos will be made alongside this trio, as well.
I've spoken to Birkal about this framework, and I've decided that this framework would definitely limit the Typing stage of each CAP, but not necessarily limit the Abilities stages, as Overgrow, Torrent, and Blaze aren't very competitively viable, and not necessarily limit the Stats stages, as starter trios tend not to share the same BSTs, giving us flexibility with where and how we want to place stats, especially with each "starter" most likely having a different concept from the others.

Possible Questions:
Is it possible to create a fully competitively viable Grass/Water/Fire trio?
What can be learned from a trio of Pokemon that will mostly likely check, if not counter, each other in a Rock Paper Scissors manner?
Exactly what does it take to create a fully competitively viable starter trio, something unprecedented in all of official, competitive Pokemon?

Of course, feedback is all but begged for as we work to flesh out this framework!

Starter Fact Sheet

Final Submission

• Name - Astounding Ability Actualization (Triple A)
• Description - These Pokemon each maximize the potential of their given, separate abilities by coordinating their movepools and that ability's competitive effect.
• Justification - This is an Actualization concept much like Cyclohm's original "Neglected Ability." In my research on what made Pokemon with "Starter Level" stats effective, the common denominator was they all had abilities they used to full effect with their other competitive aspects. This framework gives us a unique opportunity to A-B test some fairly powerful abilities we usually shy away from and bring out an effective competitive starter trio.
• Questions To Be Answered -
  • Which Abilities are best suited to a full, comprehensive exploration of their specific mechanics?
  • Why does Ability seem to be the common factor in taking "starter-esque" Pokemon into prominence (e.g. Protean and Battle Bond Greninja, Contrary Serperior, Speed Boost Blaziken to Ubers, etc.)
  • What is the threshold where maximizing an ability goes toi far, such as Blaziken's combination of Swords Dance, strong attack and mid-grade speed, and high BP STABS with Speed Boost or Protean Greninja's huge speed and just-varied enough movepool in prior Generations?
  • How will introducing three specialized Pokemon into the metagame at once impact it overall?
  • Which type combinations along with the starter types are best suited to maximizing the potential of a specific ability, and why?
• Explanation - Competitive Pokemon has suffered from a massive power creep for a long time. In order for a Pokemon to be effective, not only does it have to be fairly good generally, it also can't be directly outclassed. Considering our Framework, our Pokemon are already competing against Heatran/Volcarona, Toxapex/Keldeo/Greninja, and Ferrothorn/Kartana for offensive or defensive roles. However, each of those Pokemon have their own flaws that give our FWG CAP Trio space to explore if we are focused on a key niche for each of them.
  
  Let's take Grass for example, and Tough Claws. Tough Claws boosts one of the most incredibly CAP-relevant moves, Grass Knot, because it is a special contact attack. Only Mega Metagross ever even came close to utilizing this combination, and Mega-Meta was banned (for other reasons, of course). Grass could also use it's huge number of healing options with Triage, including priority Strength Sap that even outruns Bullet Punch. Nearly every Fire attack has a secondary effect chance perfect for Serene Grace or Sheer Force. Water has a few specific moves that would also love Serene Grace, but would also appreciate breaking through Gastrodon and Mollux with Mold Breaker. Suffice it to say, this concept gives us an ability to meet our Framework demands and think through a huge combination of synergistic types and abilities in a single project.

CAP 25g

Typing: Grass/Electric
Threats and Counters: https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/7875516
Abilities: Overgrow/Galvanize


CAP 25f

Typing: Fire/Ground
Threats and Counters: https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/7870058
Abilities: Blaze/Technician


CAP 25w

Typing: Water/Bug
Threats and Counters: https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/7872739
Abilities: Torrent/Poison Heal

 

[jas61292]

Hi again. Before we begin this thread, I just want to say a few things about starters, their inherent limitations, and how I will be judging them. This post is going to be identical in all three submission threads, so if you have read it in one of them, feel free to skip over it and get right to the submissions.

So, as you all know, the Pokemon we are creating are starters. If you look at the existing starter Pokemon, there are some obvious trends that exist. The most important of these is probably the Base Stat Total, with every single starter Pokemon falling between 525 and 535. This, along our stat limits, is the greatest limiter that we have with regard to stats. Beyond this, there are some other notable facts about starter stats. No starter has any stat below 56 or above 126, and more generally, the vast majority of starter stats fall between 80 and 110. No starter has all its stats outside that range, all but one have two or more in it, and over 70% of them have half or more fall in that range.

You can find even more precedent if you look at one type more specifically. Some examples include every Fire starter having at least one offensive stat of at least 104, or how no grass starter has a special defense of more than 100. The more you look and analyze the statistics of starters, the more trends I am sure you will find.

With that said, not all trends are absolute, and most of them will have shifted significantly over time. 126 being the highest starter stat was not true until the current gen, as it is Primarina who hits that mark. I think it will be important for us to remember that these trends are not some super strict pattern. So with regard to my judging and slating of stat spreads, I am not going to be setting any limitations other than the Stat Limits noted in the above post. You should use existing starter stats to help guide what you do, but you do not have to treat them as a straitjacket. Above all, just use your best judgement when creating your spreads, and I will used my best judgement when deciding what to slate. And, as always, back up your submissions with solid competitive reasoning, especially if you are straying from the established norms.

Now, have at it.

 

[Deck Knight]

Final Submission:

104 / 92 / 104 / 73 / 71 / 86 (530 BST)

PT: 174.16
ST: 123.38
PS: 121.40
SS: 103.57
BSR: 279.52

Metagame Role:
25g will provide the CAP Metagame with an excellent physical tank that shares many of the qualities Gliscor possesses: Good general bulk with a focus on physical defense, an effective mid-range speed tier, and longevity / status immunity from its ability. Where it differs from Gliscor is it exchanges immunities and hazard resistance for the broad debuff oriented movepool of Bug and Water-type moves. 25W is singularly effective at dispatching threats like SubToxic Zygarde and with the right movepool has the potential to break past passive threats with its unique combination of focused defense and an offense with decent power and some speed behind it. 25W's role is as a true Tank: A Pokemon that both takes and receives hits throughout the battle and wears the opponent down while attacking (or via Toxic for opposing defensive threats).

Where this shines most in actualizing the concept is the debuff attacks and status immunity combine to make 25W particularly effective at physical defense. Against special attackers it does not really do enough damage with the debuff to cause them much trouble, however it can soften them for a check. Poison Heal removed a number of defensive checks that will now succumb to a SubToxic set, so the real meat of 25W is status-immune physically defensive prowess.

Stat Overview:

HP / Defenses: HP Maximizes at 412, which is 4 above a Poison Heal number and a Stealth Rock number, so it will generally run 248 HP EVs for 411 total. High physical defense and mediocre special defense balance out the spread by making CAP's effective and ineffective matchups very clear. Even the strongest attacks from bulky Ground types in CAP require Stealth Rock down to break 25W, whereras special attackers easily break 25ws Subs and pressure it out or KO it.

Attack / SpA: "Defensive does not mean passive" is a mantra I've been saying throughout the process in regards to 25w. While 92 Atk is by no means high, it does provide some bite to the multitude of Water and Bug moves that require Attack to operate well. Bug's most powerful and versatile attacks are all physical. Two of the most useful physical Water STABs have a chance to lower defense, and there is really only one Bug special attack that actually would need a decent offensive stat to be threatening. All the others operate primarily as support moves.

Speed: 86 Speed is situated in a very good place for facing a multitude of threats. This is important because one of the single best moves that interact with Poison Heal is Substitute. Being able to Substitute before Scalds, Substute before other status moves, Substitute to activate Toxic Orb against slower threats if you haven't yet. Finally, a maximum speed without nature gets up to 271, which is just enough to outspeed Mega Lopunny/Mega Manectric with one stage of Speed control (-1 opponent or +1 CAP). There is also some merit to using the typing as a slow pivot, and 25w's minimum speed with a negative nature is 159, which will move after anything with 65 or more Base Speed.

86 Speed also creates a number of pressure situations that force opponents like defensive Tomohawk and defensive Cyclohm to attack rather than stall, making 25W less of a momentum sink against them even though it loses the direct matchup. Any spread with the ability to speed creep these threats can achieve this, having Base Speed set this high allows CAP different options with its initial move, and makes 25W more susceptible to the EV creep rather than the other way around.

Sets:
Cap 25w can mostly expect to have defensive sets, particularly a physically defensive set with Toxic Orb. It also has enough speed to run a fast offensive set that can either use Toxic Orb for the status immunity or another item for more offensive capability.

Physically Defensive: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD, Impish or Bold Nature [411 HP / [220 or 198] Atk / 337 Def / [163 or 182] SpA / 184 SpD / 208 Spe]

Assumptions: The best part of Bug's movepool is debuff options, so in the Pressure and Checks List I will provide -1 Calcs for attacks. Water also has offensive debuff moves so on occaision there will be -1 Calcs there as well. CAPw's sets will tend to revolve around Substitute or Protect, a debuff offensive STAB, a coverage slot, and a filler utility move [Toxic, Haze, Clear Smog etc.] to complete the set. I will assume STABs and Ground, Ice, and Poison coverage as they are necessary to fulfill the Pressure list.

Physically Defensive vs Threats:

Physical Defensive vs threatlist

Switch Ins:
Landorus:
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 328-386 (79.8 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 182-216 (44.2 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 68-81 (16.5 - 19.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal l
0 SpA Golisopod Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 244-288 (76.4 - 90.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Golisopod Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 216-256 (67.7 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Golisopod Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 162-192 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Golisopod Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 144-170 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Landorus's second most powerful attack can't OHKO from full health. Obviously Stealth Rock is a big problem for 25w, but if they aren't up Stone Edge from offensive Landorus can't even 2HKO through Poison Heal. All of Landorus's other moves are so pitiful they cannot even break a Substitute. Scald 2HKO's offensive Landorus as long as you don't use a -SpA nature.

Zygarde:
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 189-223 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 85-100 (20.6 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 SpA Golisopod Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 208-248 (58.1 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Golisopod Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 188-224 (52.5 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Choice Band Zygarde needs rocks down to 2HKO 25w with Outrage. It's other attacks can't break a Sub.

Colossoil:
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 169-199 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 175-207 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 222-264 (54.5 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
0 Atk Golisopod Lunge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 210-248 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
0 SpA Golisopod Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 174-206 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
0- SpA Golisopod Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 156-186 (38.3 - 45.7%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

Colossoil also needs Stealth Rock to take down 25W in 2 hits with Flame Orb Facade. You can pretty much pick your choice of STAB to 2HKO it in return, just be careful as Careful Scalds don't quite hack it.

The rest of the Switch In list is either so much weaker than these threats that calcs aren't necessary, or they are defensive Pokemon like Revenankh and Arghonaut that can't break 25W, but 25W needs a move like Toxic or Taunt to break past them. 25W is faster than anything in that category.

Pressure:

Hawlucha:
252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 218-260 (53 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 SpA Golisopod Ice Beam vs. 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 144-170 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Hawlucha with Koko is incredibly aggravating. It 2HKOs after the Electric Seed setup and OHKOs after SD, and can even survive uninvested Ice Beam after rocks. There are ways to deal with it, but direct attacking to pressure it is unlikely to work. Hawlucha will have to be solved with other moves.

Necturna:
252+ Atk Necturna Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 208-246 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Necturna Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 144-169 (35 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 Atk Golisopod Lunge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Necturna: 81-96 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Golisopod Lunge vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Necturna: 120-142 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Lunge is a great suppressant to Necturna even without other support moves. Necturna needs to get to +2 Attack to KO 25W with Never-Ending Nightmare. Since it's on the Pressure list, it will always be behind and Shell Smash only makes Lunge stronger against it. Megahorn also works if you are behind a Sub when Necturna comes in, but generally speaking use Lunge or a move like Haze to keep Necturna suppressed.

Mega Crucibelle:
252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 354-416 (86.1 - 101.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
-1 252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 236-278 (57.4 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 Atk Golisopod Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-Mega: 340-404 (96 - 114.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-Mega: 218-258 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Difficult to believe, but Head Smash doesn't actually KO 25W after rocks if you hit it with Lunge on the switch or from behind a Sub. This is still very shaky without Earthquake to OHKO or a priority move to finish up, but Mega Crucibelle does not want to come in on 25W even with its extant weakness to rock.

Stratagem:
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Stratagem Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Golisopod: 478-564 (116.3 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Golisopod Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stratagem: 242-288 (75.3 - 89.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

CAP needs a little more investment for the clean OHKO, but Stratagem is only coming in as a revenge killer, it's not coming in when CAP could be setting up a Sub.

Tapu Bulu:
252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 302-356 (73.4 - 86.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, Grassy Terrain recovery, and Poison Heal
-1 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 202-238 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Grassy Terrain recovery, and Poison Heal
+1 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod in Grassy Terrain: 339-400 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock, Grassy Terrain recovery, and Poison Heal
0 Atk Golisopod Lunge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 72-85 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
0 Atk Golisopod Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 192-228 (68.3 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
0 SpA Golisopod Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 208-248 (74 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
0- SpA Golisopod Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 188-224 (66.9 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery

Tapu Bulu is another mon on 25Ws Pressure list that hates Lunge with a hot fury, although Lunge isn't sufficient to deal with Bulu on its own. To beat Bulu Defensive CAP needs to run Poison coverage, otherwise Swords Dance can overwhelm Lunge. It's still reluctant to switch in as it hates racing against its Terrain and 25W recovering 18% a round isn't doing it any favors, precluding AV B
ulu from being a threat at all.

Checks

252 SpA Jumbao Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 393-463 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Jumbao Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 255-302 (62 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 SpA Jumbao Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 160-190 (38.9 - 46.2%) -- 24.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 Atk Golisopod Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Jumbao: 188-224 (48.4 - 57.7%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Poison Heal

Offensive Jumbao can OHKO with Bloom Doom or 2HKO with LO Moonblast, however Poison coverage for Bulu means it's only a check as it can't come in twice. Defensive Jumbao actually wants to roll Poison to help it survive, though it's not as good a matchup.

0 SpA Mollux Lava Plume vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 144-169 (35 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 Atk Golisopod Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 316-372 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Mollux has to be careful exclusively of Earthquake with its defensive set, but it laughs at every other option. Unlike Plasmanta which also needs to worry about Earthquake it doesn't have a OHKO option against 25W.

Counters

4 SpA Cyclohm Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 282-332 (68.6 - 80.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
4 SpA Cyclohm Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 218-260 (53 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 374-439 (90.9 - 106.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 SpA Mollux Lava Plume vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 144-169 (35 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 300-354 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 507-595 (123.3 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 240-284 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod in Electric Terrain: 696-822 (169.3 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod in Electric Terrain: 468-552 (113.8 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 420-494 (102.1 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 399-469 (97 - 114.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 243-286 (59.1 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golisopod: 272-324 (66.1 - 78.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

Summary:
CAP 25W has very strong matchups against every strong ground physical attacker in the metagame and can even pressure Crucibelle. To achieve success against the strongest attacks it needs teammates that can keep hazards off the field, as hazards severely cut into its ability to switch in. It easily comes in on weaker or secondary attacks that are not super-effective.

CAP 25W has very difficult matchups against the many strong special Electric and Flying type Pokemon in CAP, the very threatening Volkraken and also Toxic-immune special attackers like Mollux and Plasmanta. It is also walled effectively by Ferrothorn and Toxapex. However, most defensive counters can't break through its Sub after a Lunge and they eventually succumb to Sub + Toxic. Volt Switchers in particular are extremely effective at breaking CAP 25W's Sub and resetting Toxic damage or just damaging it generally.

 

[Roland le preaux]

WIP

87 / 70 / 120 / 96 / 100 / 57 (BST: 530)

Physical Tankiness: 178.287
Special Tankiness: 152.0124
Physical Sweepiness: 75.66542
Special Sweepiness: 100.4628

BSR: 269.08224


Offense: After many initial iterations attempting to make a mixed attacker, I finally settled on a special attacker that I felt could appropriately pressure what we need to force out in order to not be too passive in the metagame. The deciding calc for 96 special attack was:

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 204-240 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

A 70 Attack stat is not much, but with a Relaxed nature it is enough to always 2HKO offensive Latios.

0 Atk Surskit Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 156-186 (51.8 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Other Offensive Calcs and Explanations

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 212-252 (52 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Flame Orb Colossoil would need 160 EVs in Sp. Def to even have a chance live two Scalds after burn damage and Stealth Rock.

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Fidgit: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
This is another nice calc that I think justifies a fairly high Special Attack stat.

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Stratagem: 144-170 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yes, we get stomped by Paleo Wave, but we aren't pure setup fodder given that we can deal decent damage even after Calm Mind.

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 252-300 (62.3 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ice Beam on a Water-type is pretty likely to happen anyway.

0 Atk Surskit Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Malaconda: 388-460 (89.4 - 105.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
In the unlikely event we run a physical Bug-type STAB, it could have some uses.

0 Atk Surskit Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 132-156 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We also nearly always 2HKO Hasty Mega Latios without rocks.

Bulk: 87/120/100 would actually make us the bulkiest starter yet, but I feel it is not an over-the-top amount of tankiness and we really need all the help that we can get, given our Stealth Rock weakness. Physical bulk becomes the focus, helping us wall most variants of Zygarde, Landorus, Swampert, Colossoil, Arghonaut, Revenankh, and Excadrill. Special bulk helps us versus Aurumoth, Tapu Fini, Keldeo, Jumbao, Kerfuffle, Manaphy, and Volkraken. A relatively low HP stat and high defenses allows us to take advantage of draining moves and certain recovery moves, and 377 total health (with 248 HP EVs) puts us just above a Poison Heal number, which is ideal given our ability.

Defensive Calcs and Explanations

Physically Defensive Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 171-202 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO
I believe we should at least usually counter CB Zygarde, regardless of which move it is locked into, if the opponent doesn't have rocks up.

252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 171-202 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
If the opponent gets up rocks against us and correctly predicts to lock itself into Outrage, I feel they should be rewarded with a 2HKO unless the we are running Protect. It seems fair given how risky it is to click Outrage in a metagame full of fairies.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 150-178 (39.7 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We will die to two Stone Edges after rocks. I think this is fair given that Choice Scarf Landorus's Stone Edge is not particularly strong or accurate, and most teams will have multiple resists that they can switch into the move once it has been revealed. So I don't expect many 25w players would need to stay in and survive another Stone Edge anyway. But if the 25w player has Protect, the option is always there to stall out for more healing.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 272-320 (72.1 - 84.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
If we switch-in on the turn Landorus gets up rocks, we will live a Rockium Z. If we switch-in to Rockium Z after rocks are up, we probably won't. This seems fair and promotes healthy predictions.

252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 159-187 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
We can switch-in to Knock Off from a burned Guts Colossoil, but not when Rocks are up.

252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 81-96 (21.4 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
If we switch into Guts Colossoil's Earthquake, even after rocks, we can always live a Knock Off afterwards, which correctly rewards prediction.

252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 120-142 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Switching into Scarf Kartana's Leaf Blade is a rare feat for a non-resist, especially one that is weak to rocks. We have an excellent chance of surviving two hits and chewing through the Ultra Beast with one of our Bug-type moves.

252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 140-166 (37.1 - 44%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We aren't a safe switch in to Life Orb Sand Rush Excadrill, unless the opponent has failed to get up rocks. We are a safe switch in to Steelium Z variants, however. We wall every common variant of Swampert, which means we generally have a better matchup vs rain than we do vs sand. This fits into the overall CAP goal of balancing out the relative power of the weathers.

I excluded Naviathan calcs because we likely won't do much to it beyond spamming Haze or forcing it to take additional recoil/burn damage.

Specially Defensive Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Aurumoth Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 175-208 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We aren't much of an Aurumoth check, but it doesn't OHKO us without setting up... which it can't do without taking a lot of damage from a supereffective Bug-type attack. So at least we aren't setup fodder.

252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 184-217 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Surviving Scarf Volkraken's Fire Blast is obviously very important in this metagame.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 301-355 (79.8 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
We only survive Modest Specs Fire Blast if rocks aren't up, which is fair if we are building physically defensive.

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 203-239 (53.8 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We survive a Psychic after Tail Glow, even when rocks are up. We don't usually survive a +3 Waterium Z, but the Manaphy player would have to risk us having Protect.

+1 252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 223-263 (59.1 - 69.7%)
We wall Keldeo to hell and back, although a +1 Waterium Z can hit us for some decent damage. Again, using that Z-Move is a big risk for the opponent.

0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 97-115 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
We are a nightmare for Stallbreaker Fini to deal with, as we can't easily be taken down to Moonblast range via Nature's Madness and Taunt. We will be recovering too much with Poison Heal for it to simultaneously whittle us down and prevent us from using status moves.

Kerfuffle and Jumbao both easily 2HKO us with Life Orb Moonblast after rocks, which is unfortunate but really unavoidable given our stat limitations.

Speed Tier: A 57 Speed tier is honestly intended to free up as many stat points as possible for our mixed bulk and offenses, with the intended goal of being a wall than can exert offensive pressure if it so chooses (much like Gliscor). It is within the limits set by Torterra so I believe it is appropriate. It also outspeeds Malaconda by 2 points and allows 25w to OHKO it with a physical Bug-type move after rocks.

Finally, I tried to keep these numbers as starter-like as possible, with some clean, divisible-by-ten numbers and a balanced overall aesthetic. No Water-type starter yet has any of the same base stats as this 25w spread, and I didn't push for a 535 BST as I really feel that is really unique to Swampert. Anyway, I’ve really enjoyed this stat submission process so far! Feel free to comment/criticize as these numbers may not be final. Thanks!

 

[gibygiby]

Final Submission

103/93/108/70/83/78 (Sum=535)

PT: 179.5
ST: 142.1
PS: 113.2
SS: 94.4
BSR: 283.8

Metagame Role:

• Bulky Physical Wall that acts as a reliably switch in to some common physical attackers (Ground spam)
• Utilizes Poison Heal, Substitute and Toxic damage to wear down opponents, along with STAB attacks
• While Special Bulk is good, it can be taken advantage of by strong special attackers
• Offenses, while not exactly passive, can be taken advantage by those that have good bulk/resist them

103 HP

• 248 EV's hits 409 HP, enough for a substitute that survives Seismic toss, Poison Heal number, and avoids a Stealth Rock number

108 Defense

• High to tank hits, specifically what we resist but also some powerful moves from our what we want to check list

Defense - Things we can Take

Zygarde
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 289-342 (70.6 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 184-217 (44.9 - 53%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
Colossoil
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 171-202 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
Mega-Gyarados
+3 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 255-300 (62.3 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Mega-Scizor
+6 64+ Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 311-366 (76 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Tapu Bulu
+4 0 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 310-366 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and Poison Heal
Landorus-T
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 66-78 (16.1 - 19%) -- possibly the worst move ever

• Some powerful physical hits are still threatening, especially super effective hits

Defense - Things we Fear

+2 252+ Atk Necturna Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 405-477 (99 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Necturna Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 277-327 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Tyranitar
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 374-444 (91.4 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after sandstorm damage and Poison Heal
Landorus-T
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 464-548 (113.4 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal

83 Special Defense

• High enough to survive some special attacks

Special Defense - Things we can Take

Greninja
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 195-231 (47.6 - 56.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 258-304 (63 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Volkraken
252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 216-255 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Heatran Inferno Overdrive (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 343-405 (83.8 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

• Special Defense still has some issues with strong special attackers/super effective moves

Special Defense - Things we Fear

Volkraken
252 SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 322-381 (78.7 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Tomohawk
0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 212-252 (51.8 - 61.6%) -- 56.6% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
Jumbao
252 SpA Jumbao Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 177-208 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
Cyclohm
4 SpA Cyclohm Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 252-296 (61.6 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

78 Speed

• Hits a nice middle region of out speeding several things, but still slower than things that should threaten it without investment
• Some investment allows us to hit certain bench marks

93 Attack/70 Special Attack

• Both are in a workable region where either could be used, or both depending on what set is desired but neither are strong enough to threaten anything significantly
• Attack is higher to maybe play with some of Bug's interesting move options
• Special Attack allows Scald to have some bite if chosen

 

[G-Luke]

Final Submission

HP: 91
Attack: 94
Defense: 110
Special Attack: 80
Special Defense: 97
Speed: 63

PT: 168.46
ST: 151.89
PT: 99.70
SS: 93.43
BSR: 273.67

Bulk: 91 HP is a great number to maximize PH healing. Its physical bulk allows it to stomach hits like Landorus-T's Earthquake with no effort, and still tank hits like 2 Knock Offs from Guts Colossoil (as long as PH is activated first!). Its special bulk, when invested, allow it to survive a Specs Volkraken's Fire Blast after rocks and PH does its job, and even without investment, narrowly misses the OHKO from Scarf's Fire Blast after rocks.

Speed: Unlike most subs, I don't see the need for high speeds, and its current speed allows it to move first against prominent walls like Clefable and Pyroak.

Offense: Water Cappo should not be a passive boi, so giving it solid 94/80 offenses allow it to put pressure on Pokemon it walls.

Wall of Calcs

Defensive

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 60-71 (15.5 - 18.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 288-340 (74.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 160-190 (41.4 - 49.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 160-190 (41.4 - 49.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 90-107 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 121-144 (31.3 - 37.3%) -- 51.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 121-144 (31.3 - 37.3%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 288-339 (74.6 - 87.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 112-133 (29 - 34.4%) -- 5.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 169-199 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 121-144 (31.3 - 37.3%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
200+ Atk Seaking Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 73-87 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 162-191 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
4 Atk Life Orb Syclant U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 75-91 (19.4 - 23.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 90-105 (23.3 - 27.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 338-402 (87.5 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 312-367 (80.8 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Analytic Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Araquanid: 246-289 (63.7 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Araquanid: 223-264 (57.7 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Araquanid: 289-342 (74.8 - 88.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volkraken Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Araquanid: 111-132 (28.7 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

252 SpA Life Orb Jumbao Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Araquanid: 181-214 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Jumbao Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Araquanid: 142-169 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Necturna Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 138-163 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Jumbao Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 253-300 (65.5 - 77.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Necturna Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 201-237 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Necturna Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 274-324 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Necturna Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 399-471 (103.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
60+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 190-225 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Grassy Terrain recovery, and Poison Heal
60+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 190-225 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 219-258 (56.7 - 66.8%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and Poison Heal
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 126-148 (32.6 - 38.3%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal (it cant do anything back)



Offensive (Please notify if including Ice Beam calcs constitute as polljumping)
0 SpA Araquanid Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 174-206 (45.5 - 53.9%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Araquanid Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 260-308 (68 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Araquanid Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 224-268 (62.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Araquanid Ice Beam vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Necturna: 138-164 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Araquanid Lunge vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Necturna: 123-145 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Araquanid Lunge vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Seaking: 114-135 (34.6 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Araquanid Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-Mega: 218-260 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Araquanid Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crucibelle-Mega: 120-144 (33.8 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Araquanid Lunge vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Latios-Mega: 186-218 (61.7 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Araquanid Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 105-124 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[deimos]

120 / 90 / 93 / 73 / 74 / 86 (535 BST)

1 point too many (536). Looks good though! :)

 

[BlueRay]

Final Submission

HP: 100
Attack: 88
Defense: 110
Special Attack: 73
Special Defense: 82
Speed: 82
BST: 535

HP: 100 is the highest amount of HP among water starters (for example: Swampert), and it's an ideal number to make use of Substitute and swithstand Seismic Toss from Chansey.
Attack: 88 is enough to 2HKO Mega Gyarados with Leech Life after Stealth Rock and allows room for a Facade set.
0 Atk Araquanid Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados-Mega: 146-174 (44.1 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Defense: This is its maximum, and there's only a 1.2% Chance to 2HKO our Water starter with +1 Crunch from Mega Gyarados after Stealth Rock.
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 151-178 (37.3 - 44%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
So you don't have to use Protect to decrease the chance of a 2HKO. If you didn't have enough Bulk and if you had to use Protect, Mega Gyarados might use this chance to use another Dragon Dance. Then you would have to deal with +2 Crunch while you still haven't attacked Mega Gyarados.
Special Attack: It only needs 73 to safely 2HKO Landorus-T with Scald.
0 SpA Araquanid Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 162-192 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I did chose a higher physical Attack than a Special Attack because I actually wanted Araquanid to pressure Mega Gyarados. Burn from Scald is rather unreliably, but having enough power to threaten Mega Gyarados with Leech Life is important. First of all, Araquanid can heal some damage off, which makes it even more difficult for Mega Gyarados to sweep even if it is at 1+. Second, after having dealt with Mega Gyarados, it will have more HP left to deal with other opposing Pkm. We don't want Araquanid to be completely useless after Mega Gyarados, especially when it doesn't have Regenerator. And then, there's the fact that having a somewhat decent Attack stat might actually surprise the opponent. Mantine, for example, usually doesn't have to fear to switch in into Araquanid's move, aside from Toxic. But if Araquanid invests in its Attack,
252 Atk Araquanid Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Mantine: 147-173 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Furthermore, there might be some boosting options such as Swords Dance, which turns Araquanid into a more threatening Pkm, which is quite similar to Gliscor.
Special Defense: I put the rest into its Special Defense, which is enough to survive strong special moves from Choice Spec Keldeo that requires a 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Protect.
Speed: It's fast enough to out-speed Mega Venusaur. If you invest into its Special Defense, you will be able to set up a Substitute that is not destroyed by Sludge Bomb. Your opponent has to guess whether or not it should use Leech Seed or Sludge Bomb. You can use this chance to PP stall a bit or set up with Work up or any other Boosting moves if might get. In this way, it won't be passive. 82 Speed is also good for outspeeding Gyarados and other Pkm that are able to disrupt Stall Pkm such as Heatran; this if, of course, if you choose to run a Timid/Jolly nature on Araquanid.

PT: 179.11
ST: 137.62
PS: 112.25
SS: 100.51
BSR: 284.06

Interaction with Checks, Counters, and Switch-Ins

Hide

Landorus-Therian
a) 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 160-190 (39.6 - 47%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

However, if Araquanid's hidden ability is already activated and if it uses Protect after it has switched in, then Landorus-Therian's Stone Edge is not a shaky 2HKO. Let's calculate.

Turn 1: Araquanid switches in
404 HP - 101 (Stealth Rock damage) = 303 HP left
303 HP - 190 (Stone Edge's highest damage output from Jolly Landorus-Therian) = 113 HP left

Between Turn 1 and Turn 2: Poison Heal
113 HP + 50 (HP regeneration) = 163 HP left

Turn 2: Protect
163 HP + 50 = 213 HP left

Turn 3: Landorus-Therian attacks again
213 HP - 190 = 23 HP left

- - -

b) 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 288-340 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

However, it's a 68.8% chance of OHKO if Stealth Rock is on the field.

- - -

c) +2 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 350-412 (86.6 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
d) 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 60-71 (14.8 - 17.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

e) 252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
f) 252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
g) 252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Poison Heal
h) 252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 68-81 (16.8 - 20%) -- possibly the worst move ever

The only way for Araquanid to survive 2 Banded Outrage after Stealth Rock is for it to use Protect twice succesfully. It would have 189 HP left. However: Zygarde's possible damage amounts: (181, 183, 186, 187, 190, 192, 195, 196, 198, 201, 202, 205, 207, 210, 211, 214) .
So, in other words, you need quite some luck to survive a second Banded Outrage from Adamant Zygarde.

i) +2 64+ Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 154-182 (38.1 - 45%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
j) +2 64+ Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 103-122 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and without Toxic Orb
k) +4 64+ Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 155-183 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
l) +2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 243-286 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
m) 0 Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 73-87 (18 - 21.5%) -- 97.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

So, Araquanid only fears a boosted Bug Bite, but that is rather uncommon.

n) 252+ Atk Colossoil Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 58-69 (14.3 - 17%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
o) 252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 87-102 (21.5 - 25.2%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
p) 252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 162-191 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

With the exception of a Facade set, Araquanid can safely switch in on Colossoil's moves.

q) 252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 103-121 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

r) 252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 105-124 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
s) +1 252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

However, Choice Spec Hydro Pump is a 3HKO after Stealth Rock if Araquanid's hidden ability is already activated and if it uses Protect.
404 - 101 = 303
303 - 186 (Keldeo's Hydro Pump) = 117
117 + 50 (regeneration when it switches in) = 167
167 + 50 = 217 after Protect
217 - 186 = 31 HP left after Keldeo's second Hydro Pump

t) 252 SpA Life Orb Technician Stratagem Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 429-507 (106.1 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
u) 60+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 190-225 (47 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
v) +2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 324-382 (80.1 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 271-321 (67 - 79.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
w) 252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 338-402 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Crucibelle-Mega needs Stealth Rock to achieve a OHKO

z) 0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
ä) 0 SpA Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 314-372 (77.7 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
ö) +2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 422-498 (104.4 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
ü) 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 344-408 (85.1 - 100.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I did not include other Pkm from the Switch-In list such as Mega Swampert and Fidgit because they do laughable damage, and the only way for the former to actually do some damage to Araquanid is to use Stone Edge but that is very uncommon.
As for Ferrothorn, it's not strong enough to break Araquanid's Substitute. It has to rely on Leech Seed.
Scald and Leech Life when it comes to Landorus-Therian and Mega Gyarados are already addressed in Attack and Special Attack.

 

[NumberCruncher]

HP: 100 is the highest amount of HP among starters (for example: Swampert), and it's an ideal number to make use of Substitute and swithstand Seismic Toss from Chansey.

Emboar actually has the highest HP stat at 110 HP.

 

[Scoopapa]

HP: 90
Attack: 110
Defense: 118
Special Attack: 77
Special Defense: 75
Speed: 65
BST: 535

PT: 179
ST: 117
PS: 118
SS: 94
BSR: 281

Overall a very flexible spread that gives us room to explore different movepool options later on in the project. 90 / 118 / 75 defenses is enough to have either superb physical bulk or decent mixed bulk. 110 attack allows us to abuse the plethora of good physical Bug-type moves that exist. It's speed had to take a hit in order to accomodate all of this, however. Aesthetically it's one of those "slow physical brute" spreads that are pretty common.

 

[reachzero]

I realize that most of these submission posts are in an early stage of development, but please make sure you include an adequate section on this Pokemon's place in the metagame: this means showing us how the stat spread interacts with it's switch-ins, checks and counters. If your spread is designed to overcome many of our listed checks and counters, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the spread will open up additional counterplay options, to ensure that we are not left with no avenues of counterplay. Any submission post that does not indicate its spread's relationship to the metagame in a meaningful way will be disregarded.

 

[GMars]

Final Submission

HP: 95
Attack: 78
Defense: 114
Special Attack: 106
Special Defense: 80
Speed: 62

Been working on spreads with Drapionswing, here's our spread for the water starter. It provides an attractive choice for a unique physical wall in the meta, handling titans from Colossoil to Zygarde, while ensuring it can pressure its Pressure list with good special offense and maintain its C&C list through middling special bulk (balanced to still handle switchins like Specs Keldeo). Constructed this spread with the following idea in mind - would I want to use this when building, and would I not want to bang my head against a desk when facing it? This way we can introduce a solid defensive mon while keeping a healthy and fun meta. With that said, here’s more in-depth descriptions of each stat choice:

Physical Bulk: Here, maximizing physical defense is important to allow CAP25w to handle its Switch-in list as solidly as possible. Most importantly, Landorus-T Stone Edges need to become 2HKOs after Poison Heal according to our threats list, and Flame Orb Colo's Knock shouldn't 2HKO after SR.

252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 165-195 (41.9 - 49.6%); 252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 109-130 (27.7 - 33%); Rocks do 98 HP; Poison Heal gives 49 HP (potentially two rounds with protection but just checking one for now) -- max damage over 2 turns of 374 out of 393 HP if fully invested and wallable from there.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 158-186 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- 92% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 280-330 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Mega Crucibelle still pressures heavily, OHKOing after a little chip or SR, and Z-Gyaras are still able to effectively counter:

252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 332-392 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Golisopod: 500-590 (127.2 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal

The little bit of flex room in the Colossoil and Lando-T matchups allow for a bit of mixed EV investment (i.e., something like 248 HP / 236+ Def / 24 SpD). 248 HP investment off of base 95 gives 1 point above a Poison Heal number, good for an SR-weak Pokemon that will be easy to force out.

Special Defense: The majority of the offensive C&C list is assumed special if not coming in to setup hazards (like Ferrothorn). CAP25w must switch into Syclant, Fidgit, and Keldeo on the special side while losing to all Tomohawks, Kokos, Jumbaos, Cyclohms, Zapdos, and Plasmantas. Weakest neutral hitter here is Jumbao, also need to check how much damage defensive Tomohawk and defensive Cyclohm do to make sure they can break past recovery variants of 25w:

Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump should fail to 2HKO after poison heal, and should definitely fail to 2HKO in the case of Stealth Rock + a turn of protect:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Golisopod: 156-184 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- 89.8% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

184 + 184 + 98 from Stealth Rock - 98 from Poison Heal and a Protect turn = 368 damage vs 393 max HP.

Should beat Syclant without Bug Buzz:

+3 252 SpA Syclant Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Golisopod: 195-230 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

+3 252 SpA Syclant Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Golisopod: 379-447 (96.4 - 113.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal

This can beat Focus Sash Syclant, but struggles with Icium variants. Defensive Jumbaos should be able to pass Wishes on 25w as its way to take advantage of it (uninvested Moonblast won't be able to 2hko a CAP25w that can handle specs Keldeo and Sash TG Syclant), but Scarf Jumbao should be able to 2hko 25w with Solar Beam.

252 SpA Jumbao Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Golisopod: 222-262 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

This is the highest Special Defense that allows for Solar Beam to 2HKO through Poison Heal. CAP25w cannot simultaneously switch into Icium Z Syclant and have offensive Jumbao as a check without factoring in Stealth Rock for Jumbao, but as Icium Z could be played around and Syclant is a situational switch-in for 25w regardless, maintaining Jumbao as a check is preferred.

Defensive Tomohawk has the benefit of 30% flinches with Air Slash, so it only needs to be able to solidly 3HKO protect variants without SR up.

0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Golisopod: 212-252 (53.9 - 64.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

This works great, so all that's left to check is that defensive Cyclohm can 2HKO through Poison Heal with TBolt:

4 SpA Cyclohm Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Golisopod: 252-296 (64.1 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

This Special Defense does a solid job of maintaining CAP25w's Switch-ins and its Checks and Counters.

Offenses: A Special bias offensively is nice for a few reasons when looking at the threatlist and the defensive spread we've chosen to go with. Many Pokemon we should switch into have sets that can boost Defense, like Bulk Up Revenankh, Coil Zygarde, and Curse Mega Scizor (though this is rarer in the CAP metagame due to the prevalence of Haze Tomohawk, it's mentioned explicitly in the switch-in list). Additionally, generally physically defensive Pokemon like Landorus-T which we're supposed to switch in on are easier to deal with from the special side, and our physical bulk and typing gives CAP25w the ability to defensively check most Kartana, which again is easier to force out or even OHKO with special moves and is a pretty solid niche over most other bulky Water-types. Base 106 Special Attack specifically hits an OHKO on Kartana with a base 90 special Bug move after SR: 0 SpA Golisopod base 90 BP Bug Move vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 246-289 (94.6 - 111.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Most importantly, through Scald (which I mention directly due to it being on every Water starter and the vast majority of Water-types, please let me know if I this is not considered universal enough and I can remove this part), CAP25w can maintain its pressure relationships with Necturna, Hawlucha, and Tapu Bulu better than it could by going Physical. It would be difficult to have a pressure relationship with these Pokemon physically due to wanting to invest heavily in defenses to perform well enough to earn a teamslot in the CAP metagame. Hawlucha is undeterred by physical Water STAB off of base 106 Attack and Necturna and Tapu Bulu feel the same from physical Bug STAB, none of these mons being 2HKO'd or seriously hindered by the potential secondary effects from physical moves. The threat of a burn pressures all of these mons and Crucibelle while not impacting the majority of CAP25w's checks and counters list, which tend to be specially offensive or want to exploit 25w through hazards. Physical offense isn't a complete dump in order to keep the option for interesting physical Bug moves there and to stay in line with starter precedent, where secondary offensive stats rarely go into the low 70's.

Speed: I chose not to focus heavily on Speed with this stat spread, as none of the switch-ins really mandate it and the limited BST is better spent in other stats. 62 Speed gets the jump on Clefable, uninvested Pyroak, can choose pretty easily whether to outspeed or underspeed Trick Room Cresselia, and finally can get the jump on uninvested Celesteela and Tyranitar.

PT: 179.31
ST: 129.83
PS: 86.09
SS: 114.05
BSR: 270.94

BST: 535

 

[Dogfish44]

Final Submission

82 HP / 71 Atk / 106 Def / 106 SpA / 106 SpD / 64 Spe (535 BST)
PT: 152.170
ST: 155.029
PS: 80.678
SS: 114.856
BSR: 266.703

Oddly enough, our closest mon in terms of BSR and whatnot is Walrein. However, we have a better ability, a toxic immunity, stronger offenses, a Ground resistance... and if people get their way, like 5000 support moves :P

64 Speed
Highest relevant number that's an option via my choice on SpA, lets us pip past Celesteela and utterly wall it with Substitute sets, and reducing the difficulty in outpacing the Base 65 mons if that's desired on any given set. Obviously as with pretty much every submission, 64 Speeds lends itself rather decently to Trick Room teams.

106 SpA
SpA is superior when it comes to designing 25w in my mind. Much of the threats we're going to end up looking at are much more easily hit from SpA, including the likes of Zygarde, Landorus, and Mega Scizor - and this even stretches to looking at threats like Hawlucha after an Electric Seed.

82 HP
I wanted a HP that was capable of receiving wishes well - at least within the confines of our other limitations - and was also capable of working well with draining moves as a potential option. Put another way, I wanted this as low as I could, and 82 feels like it fills that mold well.

106 Def, 106 SpD
As I said in stat limits, roughly equal defenses makes broad sense for 25w - Physical Aspects are already inherently stronger due to Scald Burns and the higher number of options available to tackle physical attackers. High natural bulk, but can still be pinged by SE Threats. Biggest Special Calc is Specs Koko TBolt, biggest Physical Calc is avoiding the 3HKO from Facade Colossoil.

71 Atk
Dump stat (sorry). Still, places a smidgen bit of power behind a handful of moves with useful effects, by virtue of starter minimums.

Calculations
In my calculations I have assumed Bug Buzz, Scald, and Ice Beam. The latter is common to all starters. I've also added in Hidden Power calculations for a handful of matchups.

Wall Of Calcs

25w Switches In

Landorus-Therian
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 93-109 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 226-266 (61.4 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 248-292 (67.3 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Fly vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 332-392 (90.2 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 164-194 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Fly vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 242-288 (65.7 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 328-388 (102.8 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 218-260 (57 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 218-260 (68.3 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 328-388 (85.8 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Lando is threatening with Stone Edge and Fly, even on 252/252+, but the former isn't too common, and the latter literally shouts "Use Protect fcr Free for +12.5% HP!". Meanwhile we don't need to invest to sufficiently remove it from play.

Zygarde
140+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 58-69 (15.7 - 18.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 94-112 (23.2 - 27.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 106-126 (26.2 - 31.1%) -- 9.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Zygarde gets clonk'd by Ice Beam, whilst being walled by SpD 25w.

Mega Scizor
0 Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 102-121 (27.7 - 32.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 44-52 (11.9 - 14.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor-Mega: 91-108 (26.5 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

An easy switch-in for us whilst causing Mega Scizor to Pivot, allowing us time to either stall with Protect for some cheap healing, or set up a Substitute.

Revenankh
4 Atk Revenankh Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 43-52 (11.6 - 14.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 Atk Revenankh Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 40-48 (10.8 - 13%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Revenankh: 61-73 (15.8 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Easy to switch in, easy to threaten a Burn/Toxic. A strange matchup, indeed.

Colossoil
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 172-204 (46.7 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 166-196 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 115-136 (31.2 - 36.9%) -- 38.1% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 236-282 (57.9 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 270-318 (66.3 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

I detest Colossoil's stupid statline. Thankfully, 25w can beat it over the head with it's STAB options, and can bulk out some of Colo's more spammable moves. AV meanwhile is less of a headache.

Syclant
252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 82-97 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Syclant: 130-154 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Syclant: 147-174 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Syclant is switched in against and 2HKOd.

Mega Swampert
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 94-111 (25.5 - 30.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit in Rain: 114-135 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 25.7% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit in Rain: 84-99 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO Substitute after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert-Mega in Rain: 127-150 (37.2 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert-Mega: 94-112 (27.5 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Surskit Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert-Mega: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

Resisted hits are resisted, switches in easily. Swampy's not quite Sub-Setup-Bait, but you can pull it off against Waterfalls on Bold 252 around half t'time, or once Rain fades.

Fidgit
0 SpA Fidgit Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 42-50 (11.4 - 13.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Fidgit: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Fidgit doesn't threaten, and Trick Room isn't exactly massively threatening 25w.

Keldeo
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 104-123 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 62-73 (16.8 - 19.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 84-100 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 55-66 (17 - 20.4%) -- possible 5HKO
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 49-58 (15.1 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO

25w switches in without any hassle, and we get a matchup that sort of stalls out, with 25w getting a free Substitute etc. out of the deal on Specially bulku sets, whilst PhysBulk gets the sub up 43.7% of the time, with 252/100 being enough to guarentee the Sub survives.

Arghonaut
4 Atk Arghonaut Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 37-44 (10 - 11.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 Atk Arghonaut Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 42-50 (11.4 - 13.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arghonaut: 37-44 (8.9 - 10.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

With the possible exception of Choice Band Gunk Shot (/s), this matchup looks like you'd expect of any bulky water matchup. That is to say: Painful, except one of us can get Toxic up.

Jirachi
252 Atk Jirachi Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 65-77 (17.6 - 20.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 51-61 (13.8 - 16.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 103-123 (27.9 - 33.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 91-108 (26.6 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 102-121 (29.9 - 35.4%) -- 27.3% chance to 3HKO

Given ZH Jirachi isn't an actual thing, this matchup broadly boils down to either Fire Punch being responded to with a 4HKO... or Iron Head doing at most 4% Overall Each Action paired with a flinch.

Mega Gyarados
252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 142-168 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- 60.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 103-123 (27.9 - 33.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 154-183 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 36-43 (10.8 - 12.9%) -- possible 8HKO
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 164-194 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
16 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 168-198 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's almost as if we're making a Bulky Water here. Either way, Bug Buzz needs minimal investment to lock in the 2HKO, whilst Gyarados finds us difficult to break through, even at +1.

25w Pressure

Hawlucha
252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 218-258 (59.2 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 432-510 (117.3 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 96 HP / 36 SpD Hawlucha: 126-148 (39.2 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 96 HP / 36 SpD Hawlucha: 188-222 (58.5 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Perfectly pressured - we can't switch into Haw, but the feeling is very mutual, as the most common Haw in CAP is almost always KOd by Scald --> Ice Beam, and Rocks or any other source of chip damage is sufficient to bring it to an end.

Necturna
252+ Atk Necturna Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 141-166 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- 49% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Necturna Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 280-331 (76 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Necturna Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 204-241 (55.4 - 65.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Necturna Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 408-481 (110.8 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Necturna: 116-138 (42.9 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Necturna: 87-103 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Necturna: 174-206 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. -1 4 HP / 0 SpD Necturna: 130-154 (48.1 - 57%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO

Right, Necturna. Important calcs! First off, surviving +2 Power Whip is really useful, marking a good stat benchmark. The threat of Ice Beam makes it very difficult for Necty to get a sub up - and if it opts to Shell Smash, then you're 2HKOing the thing, whilst it's forced to NEN against a mon that feeds off of having Protect for it's PHeal recovery.

Mega Crucibelle
252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 348-410 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk burned Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 174-205 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Crucibelle-Mega: 152-180 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

I think that MCruci (135 Atk) OHKOing us with the game's strongest STAB Rock Move is perfectly healthy tbh. As with Haw, Cruci can't switch in - if it gets Burnt, then it goes from potential OHKO to a 3HKO, not factoring in the likes of Protect. We threaten a 2HKO (Though would need 184 SpA Investment to guarentee it) in exchange. As with Haw, neither is happy to switch into the other.

Stratagem
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Paleo Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 328-385 (89.1 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Paleo Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 237-281 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Stratagem: 242-288 (75.3 - 89.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Life Orb Damage

Strata can't switch in + attack if rocks are up, though it can always attack twice with min 1 HP left if Rocks aren't up barring a burn.

Tapu Bulu
60+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit in Grassy Terrain: 267-315 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit in Grassy Terrain: 192-226 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 142-168 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

I think we were drunk when we put Tapu Bulu on our pressure list. Bulu struggles a bit to switch into Ice Beam if Rocks are up, even if AV doesn't have such concerns, whilst Bulu clobbers us in return.

C+C to 25w

Tomohawk
0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 128-152 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 328-385 (89.1 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tomohawk: 164-194 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tomohawk: 109-129 (26.3 - 31.1%) -- 11.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tomohawk: 164-194 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tomohawk: 109-130 (31 - 37%) -- 77.8% chance to 3HKO

Tomo quite happily Roosts us out.

Ferrothorn
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 117-138 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 54.8% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Surskit: 63-75 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 124-148 (35.2 - 42%) -- 80.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 69-82 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Knock Off makes switching in questionable, Leech Seed leaves us unable to deal proper damage, and we can't even Poison the thing.

Tapu Koko
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit in Electric Terrain: 368-434 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit in Electric Terrain: 246-290 (66.8 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 115-136 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Koko is not only capable of always OHKOing our 252/252+ SpD Spreads, but it's also capable of 2HKOing us 100% of the time, even if we stall for time with Protect.

Krilowatt
252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 198-234 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 268-320 (72.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Krilowatt: 130-154 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 6.3% chance to 3HKO

Krill is 2/3HKOing us, we're slower and barely able to 3HKO, and we can't Toxic it either.

Jumbao
252 SpA Jumbao Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 180-213 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Jumbao Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 144-169 (39.1 - 45.9%) -- 71.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Jumbao: 132-156 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Jumbao can heal us out easily, whilst making use of the fact that it can slowly whittle us away.

Pajantom
252 Atk Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 93-109 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Pajantom Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 138-163 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Pajantom Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 219-258 (59.5 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Choice Band Pajantom Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 207-244 (56.2 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Choice Band Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 138-163 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pajantom: 124-148 (40 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Pajantom: 62-74 (16.6 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO

SpD Paj walls us pretty hard, whilst Offensive Pajantom can break through us.

Tornadus-T
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 306-360 (83.1 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 510-602 (138.5 - 163.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 148-176 (49.4 - 58.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

We're outsped, OHKOd by the Z-Move, and we then move on.

Cyclohm
4 SpA Cyclohm Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 204-242 (55.4 - 65.7%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cyclohm: 182-216 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

We're outsped and outdamaged, even factoring in PHeal.

Zapdos
0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 200-236 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 148-176 (38.6 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

See above, add on Roost screwing us over two ways.

Gyarados (SSSS)
252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 354-416 (96.1 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 186-222 (50.5 - 60.3%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 68-81 (20.5 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Almost always OHKOd, though obviously as with any mon reliant on a Z-Move to break us, highly reliant upon not hitting Protect. Still, minimalistic damage output means Gya can afford to use us as DD Bait.

Naviathan
252 Atk Life Orb Naviathan Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 159-187 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Naviathan Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 315-372 (85.5 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
4 SpA Naviathan Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 39-47 (10.5 - 12.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 48 HP / 0 SpD Naviathan: 72-85 (20 - 23.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 48 HP / 0 SpD Naviathan: 64-76 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO

Naviathan vs 25w is pretty clean. Scald Burns mean very little to Naviathan, who relishes the opportunity to break us. CM Navi is a lower matchup, but the Poison Immunity can reduce 25w to nothing.

Pelipper
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 452-534 (122.8 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pelipper: 90-107 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Offensive Peli OHKOs us from it's faster speed, before promptly switching to something to whale on the rest of the team with Rain. Fun stuff!

Mollux
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 117-138 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 54.8% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 18-21 (4.5 - 5.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mollux: 24-28 (6 - 7.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Get a dictionary, and look up "walled". You will see a picture of 25w trying to break a Mollux -_-'

Plasmanta
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 367-432 (99.7 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 265-315 (72 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 69-82 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 51-61 (19.4 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO

Plas makes for a reliable response to 25w's shenanigans.

Tapu Fini
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Surskit: 67-81 (18.2 - 22%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 41-48 (11.9 - 13.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Outsped, outdamaged, though it's not exactly a fast one (Nature's Madness helps, as does a fast Taunt)

Azumarill
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 492-580 (133.6 - 157.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 354-417 (96.1 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 61-72 (17.8 - 21%) -- possible 5HKO
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 54-65 (15.7 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO

The Rabbit uses us as Drum bait, then OHKOs us.

Arghonaut
4 Atk Arghonaut Circle Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 24-29 (6.5 - 7.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arghonaut: 37-44 (8.9 - 10.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arghonaut: 33-39 (7.9 - 9.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

"Arghonaut used Spikes!"

Toxapex
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 25-30 (6.7 - 8.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 29-34 (9.5 - 11.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 25-30 (8.2 - 9.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever

"Toxapex used Toxic Spikes!"

Gastrodon
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Surskit: 38-45 (10.3 - 12.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Gastrodon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 32-38 (8.6 - 10.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever

0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 84-99 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Surskit Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 152-180 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- 85.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

In which neither of us do anything. I'm not of the mind that Gastro is a particularly solid check though, and that's okay! After all, Poison Heal mostly broke that, removing it's strongest option against us.

 

[Wulfanator]

WIP

unfortunately haven't had time to work out more calculation so I won't be submitting.

HP: 91
Attack: 96
Defense: 117
Special Attack: 72
Special Defense: 90
Speed: 64
BST: 530

PT: 178.911
ST: 141.297
PS: 101.824
SS: 87.2317
BSR: 270.92320

HP: With 248 investment it maximizes both the healing done by poison heal and number of times 25w can come in on rocks (despite it not wanting to come in on rocks)

Defense: I originally decided to go base 116 to have guts colossoil knock off do less than 50% with 252+ def investment. Since it was one point shy of the PT limit, I opted to max it.

Special Defense: (I'll reexplain this in the morning)

Speed: 64 speed allowed me to add more points into offenses. Plus, the ground resistance makes 25w an excellent addition to TR teams. If we wanted to explore that route, I figured out slowing magearna was a good option without it being ridiculously slow.

Attack: I believe attack is the strongest offensive option for 25w as most of the big threats have better special defense. There is no specific reason for why 96 base. It will probably change as I continue to run calcs.

Special Attack: I wanted to leave an alright special stat to use moves like scald. I really doesn't need a fantastic special attack stat to make use of it though. Alomomola is fine using it with 40 base special attack. I refuse to drop it any lower than 69 base which is the smallest offensive stat of any starter. (Delphox)

Calcs to come

 

[NumberCruncher]

Final Submission

107 / 73 / 105 / 100 / 91 / 59 (BST: 325)

PT: 179.19
ST: 159.16
PS: 78.49
SS: 104.27
BSR: 278.68

Speed:

So unlike everybody else, I actually chose to underspeed Clefable. The threats and counters list doesn't actually specify how that match-up should go, so by underspeeding Clefable, we beat any non-boosting set, while losing against its less common boosting sets. It lets us outspeed Cresselia and Magearna under Trick Room, it lets us reset Substitutes after Volt Switch against Rotom-Wash, and it lets us outspeed Chansey and Mega-Mawile.

Defense:

Our HP at 248 EVs is 417, which maximize our Poison Heal recovery, and number of Stealth Rock switch-ins. It also gives us Substitutes that Chansey can't break with Seismic Toss.

Our Defensive spread makes us an incredibly effective Colossoil counter. A Modest variant can't be 2HKOd by Flame Colossoil if its Toxic Orb gets Knocked Off, and a Bold variant can't be 2HKOd even if its Orb is still on.

The Bold variant of CAPw can also avoid 2HKOs from Banded Kartana (and by extention, Scarfed Kartanas that have already taken their first life). This also means that we avoid a 2HKO from Mega Mawile's Play Rough, which lets us beat that as well.

Special Defense:

When you invest 248 in HP and 252 in either Defense or Special Attack, that leaves 8 EVs left over. If you invest those EVs into Special Defense, CAPw can't actually be 2HKOd by Volkraken's Fire Blast or Syclant's Bug Buzz or Greninja's pre-Ash Dark Pulse.

Besides those two, we lose to the vast majority of Special Attacker in the tier based on typing, so trying to force Special seems unwise.

Special Attack:

If you told me before I started calcing whether CAPw should lean physical or special, I would have said physical. Bug has easily the worst Special movepool in the game, all the utility moves with STAB are physical outside of Scald, and it opens us up to offensive healing moves and priority.

The issue therein is that most of the mons CAP is trying to beat (Defensive Lando-T, Coil Zygarde, Mega-Scizor, Bulk Up Revenahnk, etc.), they all have way too much defense. When you take into account that we also now have Mega-Mawile as a mon we might want to beat, between it and Lando-T, we're going to spend most of our time stuck under an Intimidate. That normally wouldn't be a problem, as you can just switch out and the Attack debuff goes away. Unfortunately, we have an active Stealth Rock weakness and no immunity to Spikes, so switching actually hurts quite a bit. This leads me to believe CAPw might actually not have enough stats to create a viable physical attacker without completely dumpstering its Special Attack stat. Therefore, I experimented with a few Special Attack totals and found 96 Special Attack.

At 100 Special Attack, our Bold set guarantees a 2HKO on Leftovers Lando-T and Flame Orb Colossoil with Scald, as well as Mega-Scizor with HP Fire. Our Modest set 2HKOs Mega Mawile with Scald and 2HKOs Zygarde with Bug Buzz if it sets up a Substitute (legit this and Greninja are the only half decent reasons to have Bug Buzz that my calcs could uncover).

Attack:

As I said in the analysis above, using physical attacks is usually going to be bad with this CAP. Therefore, this is on the low end. Its enough to make utility moves worth using, but that's about it. Attack stats on starters don't really go below 70, so I hit the mark above.

Meta Match-up:

This is a list of relevant calcs against mons we want to beat and mons we want to lose to in the metagame. The Zygarde one in particular is particularly in depth, because boosting shenanigans. For the Modest variant, assume a 248/0/0/252/8/0 spread was used. For the Bold variant, a
248/0/252/0/8/0 spread was used.

For a tl;dr of the calcs, refer to the meta match-up tab to see if our match-up is great, good, or bad.

Relevant calcs

(vs Offensive Tomohawk)
252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 507-595 (121.5 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(vs Defensive Tomohawk)
0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 198-234 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tomohawk: 103-123 (24.8 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

(Bold vs Orb Colossoil)
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 174-205 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal (with Toxic Orb)
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 127-150 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 9.4% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal (After Orb gone)
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 228-270 (56 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

(Modest vs Orb Colossoil)
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 240-283 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (With Toxic Orb)
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 160-190 (38.3 - 45.5%) -- 62.8% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal (After Orb gone)
252+ SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 354-416 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after burn damage
252+ SpA Surskit Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Colossoil: 432-510 (106.1 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Modest vs Defensive Landorus-T)
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 72-84 (17.2 - 20.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 288-342 (75.3 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Surskit Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 396-468 (103.6 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Bold vs Defensive Landorus-T)
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 206-246 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

(Bold vs Flyinium/Rockinium Landorus-T)
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 326-384 (78.1 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 474-560 (113.6 - 134.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 206-246 (64.5 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Modest vs Flyinium/Rockinium Landorus-T)
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 448-528 (107.4 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 654-770 (156.8 - 184.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 288-342 (90.2 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Surskit Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 396-468 (124.1 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Bold vs Zygarde)
252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 56-67 (13.4 - 16%) -- possibly the worst move ever (No Buff)
+3 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 139-164 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- 98.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal (3 Buff)
+6 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 222-262 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal (Attack won't go higher)

252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 126-148 (30.2 - 35.4%) -- 3.7% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
+3 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 312-367 (74.8 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+6 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 499-588 (119.6 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Zygarde Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 198-234 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
+3 252+ Atk Zygarde Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 493-582 (118.2 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Poison Heal

(--- 0 HP ---)
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 102-120 (28.5 - 33.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO (secure 3HKO if Zygarde Subs)
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 91-108 (25.4 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (breaks subs)

(--- 160 HP ---)
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 102-120 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 91-108 (22.9 - 27.2%) -- 47.1% chance to 4HKO (Only 44% chance to break Sub)

(Modest vs Zygarde)
252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 77-91 (18.4 - 21.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever (No Buff)
+3 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 192-226 (46 - 54.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal (3 Buff)
+6 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 306-360 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (Attack won't go any higher)

252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 172-204 (41.2 - 48.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal (No Buff)
+3 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 430-507 (103.1 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (3 Buff)

252+ Atk Zygarde Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 271-321 (64.9 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

(---0 HP EVs---)
252+ SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 141-166 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (2HKOs if it Subs)
252+ SpA Surskit Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 126-148 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Breaks Subs)

(---160 HP EVs---)
252+ SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 141-166 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (2HKOs non-Lefties sets if it Subs)
252+ SpA Surskit Scald vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 126-148 (31.7 - 37.2%) -- 88.4% chance to 3HKO (Breaks Subs)


(Bold vs Kartana)
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 132-156 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 49.5% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal (No Kill)
+1 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 198-234 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal (1 Kill)
0 SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 234-276 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Surskit Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 416-492 (160 - 189.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Modest vs Kartana)
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 181-214 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal (No Kill)
+1 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 271-321 (64.9 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (1 Kill)
252+ SpA Surskit Bug Buzz vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 324-382 (124.6 - 146.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Bold vs Mega Mawile)
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 91-108 (36.2 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Surskit: 195-229 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

(Modest vs Mega Mawile)
252+ SpA Surskit Scald vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 126-148 (50.1 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Surskit: 267-315 (64 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

(Bold vs Scarf Volkraken)
252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 198-234 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volkraken: 87-103 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Surskit Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volkraken: 87-103 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

(Modest vs Scarf Vokraken)
252 SpA Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Surskit: 198-234 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Surskit Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volkraken: 120-142 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Surskit Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volkraken: 165-195 (48.2 - 57%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Surskit Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Volkraken: 165-195 (48.2 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Meta Match-up

Tomohawk-bad
Jumbao-bad
Colossoil-great
Mega Crucibelle-bad
Landorus Therian-great
Pajantom-bad
Krillowatt-bad
Scylant-great
Tapu Koko-bad
Ferrothorn-great if HP Fire, bad otherwise
Heatran-good
Arghonaut-great
Revenahnk-depends on coverage
Kartana-great if HP Fire, good otherwise
Fidgit-great
Magearna-great
Stratagem-bad
Mollux-great if HP Ground, bad otherwise
Pyroak-bad
Clefable-bad against boosting sets, good otherwise
Aurumoth-good
Necturna-good against sets that don't have Super Effective coverage, bad otherwise
Zapdos-bad
Tapu Lele-bad
Mega Mawile-great
Mega Scizor-great
Ash Greninja-great pre-Ash, good post-Ash
Plasmanta-bad
Kitsunoh-good
Tapu Bulu-depends on Bulu set and CAPw coverage
Tornadus Therian-bad
Kerfluffle-good
Cyclohm-bad
Zygarde-great
Naviathan-bad
Mega Latios-great
Toxapex-bad
Mega Swampert-great
Pelipper-bad
Jirachi-good
Hawlucha-bad, but does prevent SD
Keldeo-great
Gyarados-bad
Mega Gyarados-good
Azumarill-bad
Tapu Fini-bad
Gastrodon-bad

Meta Role:

My idea is that CAPw fills the same role in the CAP metagame that Skarmory filled in the Gen 3/4 me,tagame. If the opponent has a physical mon in, CAPw can switch in and now the opponent needs to switch. It's as good as we're going to get as a defensive wall, sine CAPw has easily the worst special defensive typing in the format outside of Bug/Flying. Being weak to Flying and Electric is already a hard sell, and we don't even resist Fire, so switching in in a special attacker is nigh on impossible.

I've also left it open to a defensive set-up Cro-style set by balancing it around losing to set-up Clefable with an underspeed.

 

[Roland le preaux]

I don't want to call anyone out in particular, but I feel like people are bringing some weird calcs to the table. For example, how likely is it that we will be switching into Guts Colossoil's Knock Off at 100% health when we are already poisoned? Does that mean we led with 25w, clicked Protect to get poisoned by Toxic Orb without taking any damage, and then immediately switched out? Because that's a pretty ridiculous way to start a game.

 

[G-Luke]

I don't want to call anyone out in particular, but I feel like people are bringing some weird calcs to the table. For example, how likely is it that we will be switching into Guts Colossoil's Knock Off at 100% health when we are already poisoned? Does that mean we led with 25w, clicked Protect to get poisoned by Toxic Orb without taking any damage, and then immediately switched out? Because that's a pretty ridiculous way to start a game.

Switch in on a resisted hit and soak up with recovery or something. On my set for example, Landorus-T does leftovers level damage with EQ. Comes in on EQ (or any attack really), Forces out said Landorus-T, and we are left with a practically 100% health CAPw with activated. Besides, its not weird to show that it can stomach two Knocks anyways.

 

[Roland le preaux]

Switch in on a resisted hit and soak up with recovery or something. On my set for example, Landorus-T does leftovers level damage with EQ. Comes in on EQ (or any attack really), Forces out said Landorus-T, and we are left with a practically 100% health CAPw with activated. Besides, its not weird to show that it can stomach two Knocks anyways.

Ok, fair point. I just turned off Poison Heal for most of my calcs once I realized the calculator didn't take into account the initial Poisoning turn which doesn't heal. Things like Lando's Stone Edge are honestly going to be 2HKOs after rocks (even with 179.9 physical tankiness) outside of those specific circumstances where we've managed to activate Toxic Orb and get right back up to 100% health.

 

[jas61292]

Hey everyone. I don't have as much to say here as I did in the other two threads, as I believe that we have a lot of solid reasoning in the submissions already, and not as many contensious points. There is, however, one thing I do want to touch on. The offensive side of our Water Pokemon is something people seem to disagree the most on, as we have a number of submissions that are more physical, as well as a bunch that are more special. While I think most people have already done this, I will absolutely be looking for submissions that try and make a good case as to why we should prefer one offensive side over the other (or why we don't have to prefer one, if your spread is farily even in that regard).

The only other thing I want to touch on specifically here is the special bulkiness. While most spreads here are hitting a ST of 130 or above, a few are comparitively low. For those people who are not putting their special bulk that high, I'd be interested in hearing why you don't think it is as important, or how your spread helps mitigate that weakness.

---

Finally, I just want to make a general statment about reasoning and calculations. As reachzero said above, it is important that you are showing how your Pokemon fits into the metagame. A submission should be taking a stance on how we should try and fit in, and then should demonstrate how the specific stats help make this the case.

Calcs exist as the evidence to back up your arguments. You absolutely should be showing calculations, and (without getting to ridiculous) more is usually better than less. But that being said, they are ultimately just evidence, not an argument in and of themselves. So, when it comes to making a slate I will be looking for submissions that take a strong position on what our Pokemon should be doing, AND show calcs to illustrate how we will achieve that goal, not simply one or the other.

Keep these above things in mind while finishing up your submissions. You will have 48 more hours or so before this thread is closed and the slate is made. So get to it. And be sure to mark your post as a final submission when you are done.

 

[jas61292]

With the limitations that have been put on the stats stage of this project, my biggest concern, when making a slate, was that submissions really presented a picture of how our Pokemon is going to fit into the metagame, and interact with the Pokemon on our threats list. Beyond that, I am interested in making a slate of options that is diverse, to better allow the community a choice in the direction we want this Pokemon to go. So, with that in mind, here is the slate for CAP 25w:

Deck Knight (104/92/104/73/71/86) - While the overall direction of every submission is defensive, what sets this spread apart from the rest is its comparatively high speed and low special bulk. It argues for using that speed to the benefit of its defense by allowing it to pressure other defensive mons more effectively. It also makes an argument for lower special bulk to help better define matchups and more directly focus on what it is best at.

G-Luke (91/94/110/80/97/63) - The other spread on the slate to use its physical attack, this spread has a much greater defensive focus, trading off speed for special bulk. This spread also has arguably the best mixed offenses of any submission, allowing it to potentially utilize a few different offensive options, depending on what it wants to try and check.

GMars (95/78/114/106/80/62) - This spread makes a case for a strong physical wall with special offensive power. It has exceedingly high physical bulk, and looks to utilize special offensive power with moves like scald to further pressure physical Pokemon. At the same time, it places less emphasis on special defense than the other special attack oriented spreads.

Dogfish44 (82/71/106/106/106/64) - The standout feature of this spread is its mixed bulk. It is the only submission where special bulk is prioritized as highly as physical, but it does so both by increasing the special bulk and by decreasing the physical bulk relative to other spreads. It also packs a significant punch on the special side and again argues that moves like scald will help us with physical mons, as we intended.

NumberCruncher (107/73/105/100/91/59) - The all around bulkiest and slowest of all the spreads, this spread takes the defensive focus to its extreme, with lower offensive power, but the ability to tank even some very powerful special hits from some of the tier's top threats.

 

[reachzero]

Slate approved! 25w is ready to go to the polls.