CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 10 (Movepool Discussion)

[Lawman]

Dragon Dance and all that aside, I am seriously wondering why in Lava Plume, of all things are not included. :(

If it makes you feel better, I had just typed that into my movepool right before I saw this post.


I actually agree here. Woodman has somewhat of a tropical/tribal thing going on here. Island > Volcanoes > Lava. Lava plume makes plenty of sense in my opinion.

 

[Nokocchi]

Dragon Dance and all that aside, I am seriously wondering why in Lava Plume, of all things are not included. :(

Also, give this guy Earthquake and I think it's safe to say every single Physical attack booster will be off the list. ;\

Just because it's a Fire Type doesn't mean it should get lava Plume.
It's Japanese name is "Smoke Erupt", btw. Has nothing to do with Lava.

 

[Lil Ant]

Karrot i see nothing wrong with Lava Plume, i think we should replace Will-o-Wisp with it. I do think Earthquake would just throw out all the offensive stat-ups out the window.

Just my thoughts, i think the BST was chosen from big names, Aldaron and Mekkah. I seriously think the BST was chosen for infamous reasons, but that is just my thoughts. Sure it has defensive stats, but it has offensive typing. You guys are MAKING it all defense by giving it all defensive moves. You would think a defensive Pokemon with offensive stats, would have a balanced movepool, offensive and defensive wise. But mostly everyone is just hammering down on chosing defensive moves. Hell, Swampert has offensive typing as well, but it's movepool diversity lets you use it as a Choice Band ( Earthquake, Waterfall, Ice Punch, Stone Edge/ Hammer Arm ), tanking set ( with Curse ) or a pure defensive set with Stealth Rock, Roar, Earthquake, Avalanche/Ice Beam. Sure its stats yell defense, but since Gamefreak gave it some offensive options, you can use it how you please.

 

[Nokocchi]

Karrot i see nothing wrong with Lava Plume, i think we should replace Will-o-Wisp with it. I do think Earthquake would just throw out all the offensive stat-ups out the window.

Just my thoughts, i think the BST was chosen from big names, Aldaron and Mekkah. I seriously think the BST was chosen for infamous reasons, but that is just my thoughts. Sure it has defensive stats, but it has offensive typing. You guys are MAKING it all defense by giving it all defensive moves. You would think a defensive Pokemon with offensive stats, would have a balanced movepool, offensive and defensive wise. But mostly everyone is just hammering down on chosing defensive moves. Hell, Swampert has offensive typing as well, but it's movepool diversity lets you use it as a Choice Band ( Earthquake, Waterfall, Ice Punch, Stone Edge/ Hammer Arm ), tanking set ( with Curse ) or a pure defensive set with Stealth Rock, Roar, Earthquake, Avalanche/Ice Beam. Sure its stats yell defense, but since Gamefreak gave it some offensive options, you can use it how you please.

My set is mostly offensive D:

*Hates being left out of discussion*

 

[Lord Gloom]

Dragon Dance and all that aside, I am seriously wondering why in Lava Plume, of all things are not included. :(

Also, give this guy Earthquake and I think it's safe to say every single Physical attack booster will be off the list. ;\

I think Lava Plume might be problematic simply because he's so bulky. We can't really get around WoW just because, but giving him an adequate STAB attack with added Burn would just be a coup to the game. You could argue that he might pack WoW/Fire STAB anyways, but this guy is really suffering from Four Move Syndrome, so allowing him such utility in a single move wouldn't be the wisest of decisions in my eyes.

It's the same call with Howl on my list. Sure, he could pack it, but there's a lot else he could use in that slot anyways, especially considering that with Earthquake he has a single free slot on a Physical set.

 

[Lawman]

Hm... how about... Eruption? Since it will probably be taking a few hits, it could be a powerful option, yet at the same time not too over powered. Plus, with limited recovery options, it also limits the power of it as well, helping to balance it out.

 

[Lord Gloom]

I don't think it needs that at all. It has Overheat as it is, and from a flavor standpoint, the only Pokemon that get it are directly related to volcanoes.

 

[Lil Ant]

Revised Movepool

Level Up Moves:
- Leer
- Twister
- Pin Missile
- Sand-Attack
1. Tackle
5. Tail Whip
7. Ember
12. Bullet Seed
16. Harden
21. Leech Seed
24. Haze
28. Seed Bomb
28. Lava Plume
39. Aromatherapy
47. Energy Ball
54. Overheat
59. Hyper Beam
65. Flare Blitz
71. Hyper Beam
Egg Moves: (???/???)
- Wood Hammer
- Grasswhistle
- Double Edge
- Rock Blast
- Tail Wind
- Camouflage
- Dragon Dance
- Take Down
- Teeter Dance

Illegal combinations
Dragon Dance + any move on that list
Rock Blast + Tail Wind
Camouflage + Teeter Dance

I just thought i would add some unique moves in there. Camoflage comes from his appearance. Warriors seem to have a great way of blending in with the surroundings, same can go with lizards as well. Tail Wind comes from his tail obviously. Lasty, Teeter Dance was chosen from his habitat. The tropic islands such as Hawiia are known for the dances they see the females use there. Maybe Leonin picked up on them while watching the ladies


TM/HM List:
TM06 Toxic
TM09 Bullet Seed
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM19 Giga Drain
TM21 Fustration
TM22 SolarBeam
TM23 Iron Tail
TM27 Return
TM28 Dig
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM37 Sandstorm
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Facade
TM43 Secret Power
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM49 Snatch
TM50 Overheat
TM53 Energy Ball
TM58 Endure
TM60 Drain Punch
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM68 Giga Impact
TM69 Rock Polish
TM82 Sleep Talk
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
HM01 Cut
HM04 Strength
HM06 Rock Smash

 

[Lil Ant]

Meh level 59 i meant Double Edge, not Hyper Beam >_>

 

[Fishin]

Using my movelist, if DD were an egg move, this would be accomplished. It would have to breed with Torterra or Abomasnow to get Wood Hammer, neither of which have DD.

That's what I said at the beginning of the topic, and I still think it's a good idea. Suddenly, something like Gyarados is a far better check since instead of recoil-less Wood Hammer it's only going to be eating Seed Bomb, which is 67% as powerful. Granted Gyara wouldn't be an ideal first switch into this anyways (and the best counters to the physical set, Salamence/Nite, are getting hit same power by Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer either way), but having the power of a move cut by 33% is always a nerf.

Curse could be an egg move from Torterra in the exact opposite fashion, so if you've got Curse on a set then you're stuck with Wood Hammer and Fire Punch.

Actually, we could even throw Hammer Arm on there as an illegal option with Flare Blitz (Swampert learns both Curse and Hammer Arm, though, so there's no making the two of them illegal together unless we take this out of the Monster egg group).

 

[XCPetro5678]

1. Should it learn any recovery move other than Rest?

I like Restalk as the only option along with Leech Seed. I could be talked into Synthesis, but good luck pulling that off.


2. Should it get any stat buffs at all? If yes then which one(s)?

NO Calm Mind NO Bulk Up. This should not be stat upper. Yes, they're the best pokemon, but let's do something different for once. Howl and maybe Growth. I'm not a fan of Swords Dance because we're just making another stat upper at that point.


3. Which theme related moves should fill in those slot with “Cannon/Beam related move” in them? If there’s no cannon/beam moves you want in those slots, then what moves do you want in them?

A lot of them have been covered already but Hyper Beam, Flash Cannon, Energy Ball, Flamethrower, and Zap Cannon should be in there. I like Eruption too!

4. Which Egg group this monster belong in?

Plant/? Whatever helps us spit up the egg moves to avoid any brokenness later on. Please no Ground group. Smeargle ruins our fun.

5. Saying of Egg groups, which egg move should it be able to learn? This question is most likely reflected on what egg group we will be in.

If we can get them in the egg groups I'd want to see Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz in the eggs. Separate Lava Plume and Synthesis in the egg moves if it gets either of those. I don't want stat up moves, but if this gets Curse or Dragon Dance, please, please, limit it to all hell by making its sets illegal.

 

[Dane]

I don't mind letting it keep both Fire Blitz and Hammer Arm, as long as they aren't getting any neat options along with it to boost the attack stat.

 

[XCPetro5678]

I don't mind letting it keep both Fire Blitz and Hammer Arm, as long as they aren't getting any neat options along with it to boost the attack stat.

I personally think we should avoid giving this ANY fighting type moves of any manner. NONE whatsover at all. Just my opinion.

 

[Meaty]

As i went through this topic, the movepools i liked the most were Lil Ants and Dane's. I think you two have looked pass that little argument earlier, so i'm suggesting that you two talk over a messenger or something like that and combine your sets, then proposed it to the topic as a whole and see how it fairs.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

The more and more I think about it, the more I want it to be able to learn both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time. Maybe that's another debatable issue we need addressing.

 

[Azacin]

No recovery outside of Rest/Leech.

Swords Dance, since howl is for doggies (arcanine, mighteyana)

Flash Cannon, Flamethrower

Double Edge/head smash?

 

[Kira]

I seem to be the only one that thinks Lava Plume + Will O Wisp should not be on our list.

With Burn (via WoW, or Lava Plume) + Leech seed our thing is going to be bulky as fuck. Only special attackers/Guts sweepers (though the latter is becoming less and less common) can safely switch into our Woodman. Still, even special attackers wont enjoy a burn followed by a leech seed.

 

[Lord Gloom]

The more and more I think about it, the more I want it to be able to learn both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz at the same time. Maybe that's another debatable issue we need addressing.

I don't think anyone is arguing against this. In fact, most people seem to be in support of it. Do you mean Hammer Arm?

 

[Lord Gloom]

I seem to be the only one that thinks Lava Plume + Will O Wisp should not be on our list.

I don't want Lava Plume, but WoW can't be removed because it's standard fare for every fire type.

 

[Deck Knight]

Random thoughts:

Stun Spore is gone because it generally cripples all the faster fire types that switch in. Plus there's no defense against Stun Spore not named Taunt or Substitute. Stun Spore seriously messes with anythng's ability to Counter this. How would you beat a Substitute/Leech Seed/Stun Spore/Flamethrower set? One full para and you're looking at breaking a 100+HP Sub. Stun Spore and Synthesis alone would be quite annoying.

I would have supported Swords Dance (and several other boosters) if this didn't get Rock Head.

Sorry guys, 180 BP 100 Acc no drawback moves that get doubled in power on a pokemon with more than enough defense to set Swords Dance up? I think not. Should have gone with Leaf Guard XP.

Curse is in the same category as Swords Dance. This is bulkier than Revenankh and yet we're going to let it just Curse up, then use 180 BP 100 Acc moves? No. Once again, thank Rock Head for no attack boosting moves.

No Dragon Dance either. Seriously guys, what is wrong with you? You forget that you've gven this Rock Head, and 70 Base Atk doesn't matter when you can throw out 180 BP 100% Accurate moves with NO DRAWBACKS. Not only that, after 2 DD's (If TTar can pull it off, this can), you can outspeed everything except Scarfchomp (which can't OHKO you).

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I don't think anyone is arguing against this. In fact, most people seem to be in support of it. Do you mean Hammer Arm?

Hammer Arm was taken up because of the counter things. Personally I don't really care if it's gone or not since I originally placed it on the old dummy movepool because bashing head with a cannon barrel is fun.

 

[Lil Ant]

Random thoughts:

Stun Spore is gone because it generally cripples all the faster fire types that switch in. Plus there's no defense against Stun Spore not named Taunt or Substitute. Stun Spore seriously messes with anythng's ability to Counter this. How would you beat a Substitute/Leech Seed/Stun Spore/Flamethrower set? One full para and you're looking at breaking a 100+HP Sub. Stun Spore and Synthesis alone would be quite annoying.

I would have supported Swords Dance (and several other boosters) if this didn't get Rock Head.

Sorry guys, 180 BP 100 Acc no drawback moves that get doubled in power on a pokemon with more than enough defense to set Swords Dance up? I think not. Should have gone with Leaf Guard XP.

Curse is in the same category as Swords Dance. This is bulkier than Revenankh and yet we're going to let it just Curse up, then use 180 BP 100 Acc moves? No. Once again, thank Rock Head for no attack boosting moves.

No Dragon Dance either. Seriously guys, what is wrong with you? You forget that you've gven this Rock Head, and 70 Base Atk doesn't matter when you can throw out 180 BP 100% Accurate moves with NO DRAWBACKS. Not only that, after 2 DD's (If TTar can pull it off, this can), you can outspeed everything except Scarfchomp (which can't OHKO you).

Well maybe you stop it or cripple it before it gets 2 DD'd? I mean damn if a lot of things get 2 DD's it would be unstoppable as well. Lets not get into a unrealistic panic just because this is a CAP Pokemon, i mean a lot of things can be difficult to stop with stat up moves. Also, just because it gets Rock Head doesn't mean it shouldn't get any stat up moves offensivly, you still have a realize it's only 70 Base Attack, that is Roserade's Attack stat. I mena i understand you may dislike Rock Head, but don't bash it just because Leaf Guard didn't get chosen. Because then i could argue you are making it even more broken by eliminating status so Toxic can't wear it down. You guys and your defensive Pokemon, the best defense is a good offense.

 

[Nokocchi]

Swords Dance, since howl is for doggies (arcanine, mighteyana)

B-day Charmander Cherish Event has Howl(And Quick Attack) :/

Others:
-Camerupt (Camel)
-Exploud (...thing)
-Luxray (Lion, which is a big CAT)
-Typlosion (Badger thingy-ma-jig)
-Charizard (Lizard/Dragon, ala Previously mentioned event)

Random thoughts:

Stun Spore is gone because it generally cripples all the faster fire types that switch in. Plus there's no defense against Stun Spore not named Taunt or Substitute. Stun Spore seriously messes with anythng's ability to Counter this. How would you beat a Substitute/Leech Seed/Stun Spore/Flamethrower set? One full para and you're looking at breaking a 100+HP Sub. Stun Spore and Synthesis alone would be quite annoying.

I would have supported Swords Dance (and several other boosters) if this didn't get Rock Head.

Sorry guys, 180 BP 100 Acc no drawback moves that get doubled in power on a pokemon with more than enough defense to set Swords Dance up? I think not. Should have gone with Leaf Guard XP.

Curse is in the same category as Swords Dance. This is bulkier than Revenankh and yet we're going to let it just Curse up, then use 180 BP 100 Acc moves? No. Once again, thank Rock Head for no attack boosting moves.

No Dragon Dance either. Seriously guys, what is wrong with you? You forget that you've gven this Rock Head, and 70 Base Atk doesn't matter when you can throw out 180 BP 100% Accurate moves with NO DRAWBACKS. Not only that, after 2 DD's (If TTar can pull it off, this can), you can outspeed everything except Scarfchomp (which can't OHKO you).

What about my Movepool? I don't have anything but Howl ;-;

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

-Typlosion (Badger thingy-ma-jig)

Wolverine actually.

You people keep making me forget what majority moves everyone wants, moves that need debating lol

 

[Kira]

Well maybe you stop it or cripple it before it gets 2 DD'd? I mean damn if a lot of things get 2 DD's it would be unstoppable as well. Lets not get into a unrealistic panic just because this is a CAP Pokemon, i mean a lot of things can be difficult to stop with stat up moves. Also, just because it gets Rock Head doesn't mean it shouldn't get any stat up moves offensivly, you still have a realize it's only 70 Base Attack, that is Roserade's Attack stat. I mena i understand you may dislike Rock Head, but don't bash it just because Leaf Guard didn't get chosen. Because then i could argue you are making it even more broken by eliminating status so Toxic can't wear it down. You guys and your defensive Pokemon, the best defense is a good offense.

You are not going to be able to cripple it if it comes out as a late-game sweeper and all your counters are dead which is what a good player would do... You can't just assume "I can cripple it before it gets a DD"


He is not bashing Rock Head, because his ability of choice did not get chosen... I think Deck Knight is above bashing a move because he "lost" in a pokemon poll.