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CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 2 (Secondary Type)

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It dosen't, but your sorta wasting a few team slots if you use bronzong to set up rain just for kingdra when bronzong's got heaps better things to be doing.
 
Uhh, I disagree. Beating the opponent is the key to the game, and once I eliminate threats like Empoleon, Gyarados (most waters in general), and Thunder Waving threats like Celebi / Blissey / Cresselia, that victory is essentially guaranteed should Kingdra get time in Rain. If Bronzong (though I mentioned Jirachi) can set up that Rain effectively, then it sure as hell better be Rain Dancing rather than anything else. And besides, Bronzong can Hypnosis and Stealth Rock...but how are Explosion / Reflect / Light Screen / Calm Mind any better than Rain Dance? The first one and the last one could potentially hurt the opponent, and the middle two support your team...Rain Dance does all of the above :D
 
Aki said:
It dosen't, but your sorta wasting a few team slots if you use bronzong to set up rain just for kingdra when bronzong's got heaps better things to be doing.
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Yes it does if team on a whole does better because of the bronzong being slightly gimped.
 
Aldaron said:
Uhh, I disagree. Beating the opponent is the key to the game, and once I eliminate threats like Empoleon, Gyarados (most waters in general), and Thunder Waving threats like Celebi / Blissey / Cresselia, that victory is essentially guaranteed should Kingdra get time in Rain. If Bronzong (though I mentioned Jirachi) can set up that Rain effectively, then it sure as hell better be Rain Dancing rather than anything else. And besides, Bronzong can Hypnosis and Stealth Rock...but how are Explosion / Reflect / Light Screen / Calm Mind any better than Rain Dance? The first one and the last one could potentially hurt the opponent, and the middle two support your team...Rain Dance does all of the above :D
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With Tar and Hippo running around OU, i don't see the point of anything bar auto weather teams =\

But taking your points into consideration: Kingdra is overrated, it simply has too low base stats. 95/95 Offenses aren't gamebreaking. Sure, under rain it simply owns bliss with waterfall, but you've also gotta take into consideration Mixed walls. Then you've gotta worry about other Weather, random scarfers (Unless max speed EV's) and Airlock/Cloud nine. Btw, once you've taken out Waters, Water resists, Dragon resists and weather changers, you've really won anyway. And even THEN you've gotta take into consideration the skill of the opponent. If you take out your opponents Water resists, dragon resists, weather changer and Mixed walls, you've won/your opponent deserves to lose. I still think that this typing deserves Mixed wall; a better Sweeper would be Grass/Elect or Grass/Ice, Or come up with some other Ability which increases speed in the sun. Countering Bulky Waters/grounds/steels, mix walling and potentially countering Breloom is just too hard to pass up.

EDIT:
Luck said:
Yes it does if team on a whole does better because of the bronzong being slightly gimped.
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Counter argument to this is that we're discussing the viability of a 2 poke combo on a team; a rain dance team with everything benefiting is completely viable, but a Sunny Day one isn't because the only decent pokes that work on a sunny day team are:
-Hypothetical Sweeping CAP
-Tangrowth
-random SunnyBeamers

Apart from this the team Sunny Day selection isn't very good. At all.
 
GRASS, yadayadayada...

agreeing we should go bulky-ish, and i want it physical. special fires and special grassers are old hat. now that d/p opened up physical moves (good ones too!) for both those types, let's use em!!

something mammalian. something that could get blaze kick (next best physical move outside flare blitz). and something that could get wood hammer/seed bomb. AND LEECH SEED.

physical recoil attacker with leech seed ftw!!! suicide semi-bulky sweeper, what?

megaloceras as the inspiration. deer are severely underrepresented, as much as i love dimetrodon, fire/grass screams mammal to me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e5/Megaloceros.jpg/457px-Megaloceros.jpg

look at those fucking antlers!!! physical is the way to go!
 
Not enough reasoning for my tastes.

EDIT: to T-tar/Arm

@Urza: Check my post on page 13 in part 1.
 
I still wanna see a Grass / Fire come into fruituon.

Aki said:
Not enough reasoning for my tastes.

EDIT: to T-tar/Arm

@Urza: Check my post on page 13 in part 1.
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Fuck Aki. People don't have to provide reasoning for every little thing they say and they are under absolutly no obligation to back up anything they say. If they think Fire / Ice is the coolest type in the whole entire universe and everything else sucks just let them think that. Stop being so argumentative and trying to pick fights with everyone, then rejecting their reasoning.
 
But taking your points into consideration: Kingdra is overrated, it simply has too low base stats.
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you're talking to aldaron who is a great battler and has used it to success. I'm also pretty sure he knows it's base stats. have you ever used it?
 
While I also thought the porcupine idea was good at first.
I realized there is already a fire porcupine.

porcupine%5B1%5D.jpg


quilava.jpg


Looks like a Pokemon porcupine to me!

I still stand that a Dimetrodon with long chilis out of its back in the shape of the sun and the fire frill would be best candidate for an automatic drought for OU. Which would definitely make for anti sandstorm or a little bit more diversity at least. Tyranitar is pretty dinosaur like, so it would also make an awesome rival for it.
 
I can't believe I'm the first one to say this...

Yes, Dragon.

Seriously. We're making all these comparisons to Kingdra but no love for it's Dragon typing? Dragon adds so much to the Fire type: Removes the water weak, adds extra resistance to Fire and Grass, and adds an entirely new Electric resistance. Dragon also only gives this Pokemon one extra weakness. Compare that to the Grass typing, which lumps on extra weaknesses with Flying and Poison and removes Bug, Fire and Ice resistances. And for what? STAB Grass attacks and EQ neutrality? Grass/Fire might be a really unique type, but everyone has wanted a Fire/Dragon since Charizard and I think its about time we made one.

Seriously, Fire/Dragon!
 
Here comes what we've got so far:
Typing: Fire/grass

 (Debatable moves/stats are in Brackets)

Proposition 1:

 Stat distribution: Balanced
Stat Bias: Defences
Physical/Special Bias: Balanced

BS Spread: 110/90/110/90/110/40
BST: 550

Ability: Insomnia
User cannot be slept.

Ability: Flash fire
Powered up by Fire moves

Notable Movepool(Attacking):
Flamethrower, Flare blitz, Energy ball, Needle Arm (Seed bomb?), Grass knot, (FFang/IFang/TFang?)

Notable movepool(Defending/recovery/Stat boosting):
Synthesis, (Slack off?) Leech seed, WoW, Substitute, Toxic, (Stockpile?)

Notable Movepool(Support):
Reflect, Light screen, (wish?)

Breeding groups: Plant/Ground

Egg moves(Plant): Leech Seed, Synthesis (Jumpluff Family)
Egg moves(Ground): WoW, Flare Blitz(Rapidash Family) (Stockpile?) Mawlie

Proposition 2:

 Stat Distribution: Attack
Physical/Special bias: Special

BS Spread: 80/110/75/125/75/85
BST: 550

Ability: Chlorophyll
Doubles speed in sun

Ability: Solar power
Increases attack at the cost of HP In sunlight.

Notable movepool(attacking):
Seed bomb, Flamethrower, Flare Blitz, Energy Ball, Seed bomb, EQ, Stone edge, (Cross chop?) Sucker Punch (95 BP physical fire move?/Blaze kick?) (Power whip?)

Notable movepool(Defending/recovery/Stat boosting):
Bulk up, (Nasty plot?) (Swords Dance?) Taunt

Notable Movepool(Support):
(Not much?)

Breeding groups:
Plant/ground

Egg moves(Plant): Seed bomb (Breloom), Sucker Punch (Cacturne)
Egg moves(Ground): (Nasty Plot?), Flare Blitz (Infernape), (Swords Dance?) (Lucario, Can’t learn TM cause it makes it too easy =P), (Cross Chop?) Not sure if something can pass an egg move…


Proposition 3:

 Stat Distribution: Attack
Physical/Special bias: Physical

BS Spread: 50/140/80/80/80/105
BST: 535

Ability: Adaptability
Doubles STAB.

Ability: Solar power
Increases attack at the cost of HP During sunlight.

Notable movepool(attacking):
Seed bomb, Blaze kick/Fire punch/95 BP Physical fire move, EQ, Stone edge, Needle arm, Grass knot, Cross Chop, X-Scissor, (Power whip?)

Notable movepool(Defending/recovery/Stat boosting):
Swords Dance, Agility

Notable Movepool(Support):
(Not much?)

Breeding groups:

Need moar suggestions.

Art suggestions:
Panda
Hedgehog
Lion
aslan.gif

Flower (Sunflora Evo)
normal_x8_optic_sunflower_3d.jpg

Venus Flytrap thingy (Carnivine Evo)
vftRD.jpg

Zebra
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I'll update it as we get more suggestions.

Needing suggestions for Breeding groups/moves in the third one!
 
which post on page 13 aki? for the record i read them all before posting. CAP is the single largest reason i joined smogon midway through the syclant project. i've made a lot of quiet suggestions that have influenced how it unfolds...it was my suggestion that syclant get fangs not punches, was the first to suggest a movepool and breeding group for revenenankh, etc. my suggestion on certain aspects of how this process has unfolded as far as voting went have been influential (reverse voting, voting against certain moves rather than for them being one of the most notable). dont doubt my devotion here. i read your post. i know you want a panda...i'm proposing other ideas.

and this isn't flaming, just responding. i read the posts.
 
Yes, Grass.

And why Grass? Well, I'm mainly interested in the "ultimate subseeder", but it has so many other possibilities that I think I'll be happy with whatever comes out of this.

And regarding the design, if it's not a funny-yet-cool dancing chili pepper, (could be the fire brother of Ludicolo, one being Water/Grass, the other being Fire/Grass, both being ridiculously funny), a flaming lion would be cool.

Imagine this: A dark green lion, with a fire mane, thorns as claws, a thorny vine as the tail, and a fur consisting of grass, with longer and wider leaves near the shoulders and the tail. Oh, and crimson red eyes, in contrast with the dark green face.
 
love the idea of the lion...but i want to make sure this is something that can get wood hammer. that's my biggest problem with a feline design...meet that challenge, and i'm sold
 
Urza said:
which post on page 13 aki? for the record i read them all before posting. CAP is the single largest reason i joined smogon midway through the syclant project. i've made a lot of quiet suggestions that have influenced how it unfolds...it was my suggestion that syclant get fangs not punches, was the first to suggest a movepool and breeding group for revenenankh, etc. my suggestion on certain aspects of how this process has unfolded as far as voting went have been influential (reverse voting, voting against certain moves rather than for them being one of the most notable). dont doubt my devotion here. i read your post. i know you want a panda...i'm proposing other ideas.

and this isn't flaming, just responding. i read the posts.
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Nevermind, just read the first proposal above. Nither am i flaming you.
 
didn't think you were. just clarifying.

for the record i like your ideas, and it's the only way to advance the project to keep throwing them out. but...let's save movesets and stat spreads for a bit later eh? art has to come first.

as far as the movesets do go though...careful with your options. most of the things suggested so far are pretty damn aggressive sounding. wish is out. reflect/light screen i can see, but only if i stretch my imagination. stock pile? slack off...meh..................if this thing is going to get the typing i think it's getting, it has plenty of recovery options, even the probably novelty giga drain. if it was a panda i can even see it getting drain punch. but no 50% recovery move. too easy. and it's not going to get played defensively in that sense. it wouldn't be broken, just kind of boring...

and agreeing with whoever said no nasty plot/swords dance. agility might be intriguing though...if we give it a high enough attack stat (or special, but im definitely cheering for physical) then an agility sweeper might be in order. think blaziken with better than craptastic defenses and better resists and only the ability to attack from one direction.

i cant wait to see the art get going. this project really makes me wish i were an artist....
 
Urza said:
didn't think you were. just clarifying.
Mmk.

for the record i like your ideas, and it's the only way to advance the project to keep throwing them out. but...let's save movesets and stat spreads for a bit later eh? art has to come first.
We can still discuss stuff; You can really stretch art if you give enough reasoning.

as far as the movesets do go though...careful with your options. most of the things suggested so far are pretty damn aggressive sounding. wish is out.
In brackets.
reflect/light screen i can see, but only if i stretch my imagination. stock pile? slack off...meh..................
In brackets.
if this thing is going to get the typing i think it's getting, it has plenty of recovery options, even the probably novelty giga drain.
I'm suggesting notable movepool XD
if it was a panda i can even see it getting drain punch.
I can't for some reason ._.
but no 50% recovery move. too easy. and it's not going to get played defensively in that sense. it wouldn't be broken, just kind of boring...
Stall = good for bulkier things.

Everything that is either Overpowering or Controversial is in brackets for the record.
and agreeing with whoever said no nasty plot/swords dance. agility might be intriguing though...if we give it a high enough attack stat (or special, but im definitely cheering for physical)
Expand on this and i'll add it; I didn't put Agility due to Chlorophyll.
 then an agility sweeper might be in order. think blaziken with better than craptastic defenses and better resists and only the ability to attack from one direction.
I can see your point...Just needs that little bit more expansion. Think the straw that broke the camels back.

i cant wait to see the art get going. this project really makes me wish i were an artist....
Draw shit sketches or take IRL Pics and edit in paint to get some concept art going. For the record, nither can i seeing as KoA has loads of ideas >=)
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I cannot argue with the sheer awesomeness with that post. However, the typing itself fails due to weakness to some of the most 3 attacking types: Fighting, Rock, Ground.
 
Fire/Normal. This is a badass typing. No question. I see a lion/panther working excellent as a character design here.
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Normal does nothing for Fire, really, except Ghost immunity and adding Fighting weakness. It just hits neutral on a lot of things. I don't see why we'd need a Normal typing for it to be a lion either.

Fire/Rock maybe giving Magcargo a useful evo like Togekiss was from Togetic
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It will take a 800BST to make such a thing usable. Have you looked at its weaknesses? Ground (4x), Water (4x), Fighting, Rock. Resistant to a few things too, like Ice, Normal, Flying, Fire (4x), but all the Pokemon that carry such moves also have one of his weaknesses packed.

Friendly request to Aki to stop replying to every single post in the fucking thread, especially if it's not adding anything.

Yes, Fire/Grass
 
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