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CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 2 (Secondary Type)

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Can people please stop rushing three and four polls ahead? It's fine to discuss rough ideas about the next poll or two. But in reading the last few dozen posts, I thought I stumbled into the BST thread. People are submitting BST's as if there is some rush to get a BST spread submitted. We haven't even polled on concept?!? How can you possibly be making reasoned predictions about BST's when we haven't even determined it's second type yet?

I'm sure everyone is eager to get all their ideas out on the table, but this is clearly off-topic. When the discussions wander this far off course, it gives an impression that this pokemon is going to be finished in a few days of discussion on a single thread. That is not going to happen. And don't try to argue that you are "just throwing out ideas". No you aren't. You are subverting the creation process through some misguided perception that if you post your idea the soonest, then perhaps it will have more impact and convince more people of your idea.

The defining characteristic of the CAP project is that we build pokemon one step at a time. This discussion has become way too erratic and looks nothing like a discussion of the second type. Perhaps we can throw out some early discussion on the style and build polls. If people are bored with talking about type and would prefer to throw out BST's, art submissions, and movesets -- DON'T DO IT. Just keep your ideas to yourself and wait for the proper poll.

If people continue to make off-topic posts, I will start handing out infractions.
 
Agreeing with Doug, I'd jump in but really, there's no point. There's plenty of time, and this only runs the risk of convincing people to join a side or jump onto a bandwagon so that the polls are decided before they are posted. We were already risking that by discussing Fire/Grass in the Type 1 topic. Let's try to stop doing it altogether.
 
Even better would be a Parasect evolution. The ability of the status problems that it could use would be near limitless! Never thought of a fire type that could do that. This thing would absolutely rule with Flame Blitz (sp?) and Sunny-Beam. Aromatherapy, good typing, and good stats could make this "Parascorch" own, hard.
 
Even though it has absolutely no chance of winning, I'm voting for Psychic. Grass is just fine for me and is my second choice, but ever since I saw Chimchar, I wanted a Fire/Psychic. What would it do to the typing? It can now hit Fighting and Poison super effective, but it is now hurt by Ghost and Dark while neutralizing the Bug. Other than that, nothing, so Grass makes more sense competitively, but I just like the idea of Fire/Psychic. I'm not entirely sure of a concept, but I'm sure people with an imagination could think of one.
 
EDIT: I misinterpreted both Mekkah's and Doug's intentions, so I apologize to both of them. I agree with what they are saying, that we shouldn't allow any influential capabilities to subvert a creative process dependent upon the community.

I do however believe that in order to successfully "push" for our typing combination, that we should discuss possible strategies that utilize that typing. If giving spreads that optimize these strategies is too far into the future, then I can compromise there, but I definitely believe that strategies should be considered when looking at type combinations.
 
The thing is, there's time for all that later, but I'm afraid you guys will rush other people into the concept and that it'll all be decided before the actual poll is up. That, too, is hurting variety and creativity. I'd really appreciate it if it was just taken to PM or something if you enjoy it so much.

There will be plenty of time to discuss concepts and BSTs in their own poll. There is no hurry.
 
I also agree with Doug on this one, hell I should be the one telling everyone to stop getting off topic but I've been too involved in the discussions to noticed. Peoeple please, just because you're eager to get to the other poll doesn't mean we have to jump ahead of ourselves. That feeling is and going to ruin the feeling you get when we finally finished this project.

Fire/Bug: 0
Fire/Dark: 1
Fire/Dragon: 4
Fire/Electric: 3
Fire/Fighting: 0
Fire: 0
Fire/Flying: 0
Fire/Ghost: 1
Fire/Grass: 41
Fire/Ground: 0
Fire/Ice: 0
Fire/Normal: 4
Fire/Poison: 2
Fire/Psychic: 2
Fire/Rock: 1
Fire/Steel: 0
Fire/Water: 3

Yeah, everyone had their mind so dead-set on a certain thing that judging on the vote count above, not much stood a ghost of a chance of even making it to second and third place.

Doug~ Got your PM.
 
I think curbing future discussion is the foremost detrimental action to take against creativity, but meh, I can also see how influence could affect the whole process.

I'd just like to state that out of the possible secondary types for Fire, Grass definitely seems to allow for the most varied options. You could go the subseeding way, the support way, the sweeper way (with Chlorophyll) all with the same spread of stats, something not necessarily gained through the other types.

EDIT: I agree that we should try not to insinuate that our ideas must be taken as canon, and emphasize that these are merely possibilities for the typing combinations, to ensure the creative process maintains its dignity. However, I think we should discuss potential strategies that are direct results of the type combination (that is phenomenally ahead of the others). Discussing viable Fire / Grass strategies and supporting them with potential spreads is helpful.I discuss the Fire / Grass combination's exciting potential to Leech Seed + Will-o-wisp and I discuss how in Sun and with Chlorophyll the type combination brings great balance to this game in order to support my pick of Fire / Grass, not to hurt the creative process at all. I hope that wasn't what the impression was.
 
Aldaron said:
Uhh, since when did I mention that your idea was inferior, lol? You claim that having low HP and mediocre defenses (that are truthfully worse than Spiritomb's) has utility outside of Subseeding, but I don't see it.
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You didn't mention it, but I got that impression. I shouldn't have written that out of an impression, so sorry.

Aldaron said:
I don't agree with Doug or Mekkah at all here. I don't see anything wrong with going off topic here. And I certainly don't appreciate the insinuation that we are trying to "subvert the creation" process by getting our ideas out there soon.
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I'm culprit of writing a BST here, but I agree with them: It is way too soon. I felt complied to reply with my own idea to not be left behind, but I shouldn't have taken the bait, honestly.


And now on topic, I think that if Fire/Grass wins, and it looks like that, the Style that would benefit it the most would be "Balanced", to be able to exploit the lack of major weaknesses that the combination provides, as well as giving a good use to the very good STAB moves Fire/Grass possesses.
 
The main reason I was discussing BST and roles (not so much movesets, that isn't too important at the moment) is because it has a direct impact on the next poll. It's not like we're debating for the poll three away.

For example, by discussing as have, it seems the idea of a fire/grass variant of Kingdra or Swampert would be intriguing. This leads the style to be "balanced". In the previous thread, we were talking about bulkyness, so it likely would've led to "defensive" instead.

So while it definitely looks like we're only talking about BST (and probably accidently have for the last page or so), it's a direct discussion about style as well. We haven't truely discussed build yet though.
 
DRAGON

I see a trend of people just go along with the majority, Grass, but think about this... Fire/Dragon would be awesome, since most fantasies that include dragons are Fire Dragons... Yet, we don't have a Fire/Dragon pokemon. Plus, a useful dragon that is NOT weak to Ice!


 
But we don't know if this pokemon will be balanced, defensive, etc until we get there and even then, things may change. I understand I did say that you could write up in-depth details on the type/type combo you're voting on to show why you should vote for this type combo and possible roles, appearance, whatnot.....okay I just realized that majority of that is my fault since I did said you were allow to do via OP, but I didn't think we would go this far off-topic. We can have discussion if we can discuss them within the topic at hand.
 
But if you don't discuss the possibilities a style offers, then what discussion is there? You'd basically just be having an unofficial poll on what people wanted.
 
Indeed, but yet, we do not have a single OU Dragon that is NOT BST 600...

If this Dragon, however, goes for high attack, then we'd have a high-attack Fire type, which is quite rarely seen (as most people don't use Flare Blitz Infernape anymore), or high-special-attack Dragon Type, which is only now Salamence, but Salamence's speed isn't super wonderful... Oh right, as of now, Garchomp is the fastest Dragon... We have no Dragon above 102 Base Speed either, but Weavile, Gengar, Starmie, etc. all take leads... We should have faster Dragon.... Or maybe we'll make a defensive Dragon, better than Garchomp? We don't know now but it's up to the committee. However, what we do know is, there are VERY MANY WAYS to set up a FIRE/DRAGON type... So...
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Fire / Dragon is my vote :).

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Like I said, I have EVERY intention of speaking of viable strategies this Fire / Grass Pokemon that I am proposing could use.

If this involves showing spreads that help these strategies, then I will also do that. However, I will make sure to emphasize that is solely to display the effectiveness of my strategy for this specific type, that is all.

Anyway, I am going to continue giving my opinion on viable Fire / Grass strategies, since that is, after all, the point of this topic.

So far we have discussed its ability to sweep (assuming Chlorophyll), support (Leech Seed + Will-o-wisp and Lava Plume are givens, while Reflect and Light Screen and Stun Spore could be added), and SubSeed. The great thing is that any spread could essentially allow this typing to do all three, which introduces a wonderful diversity variable for this Pokemon, which I like a lot.
 
Dane&Aldaron~ I just realized that when I looked at my original post as I did mention you were allow to make in-depth explanations to back up your reasoning on why you voted for that typing. It's more of figuring out which discussion are on topic and which are not.
 
Yes

I must suggest Fire/Grass or Fire/Normal!

I am suggesting Fire/Normal because a lion would really be badass, and it would also be the only Normal-type other than Blissey, Togekiss, and Porygon-Z in OU! Fire/Grass would also be kickass since it would be cool, and because of of it's resistances/weaknesses. The only downfall of Fire/Grass is that it would be like Swampert!
 
I'm agreeing with Tsukikage, a Psychic / Fire would be awesome... Hell, Psychic / anything is awesome. With Psychic, Psyco Cutter, Lava Plume and Overheat (not all on the same moveset, mind you,) would be 100% pure ownage. While this type combonation wouldn't balance out many of the weaknesses / resistances, it would be a fun Pokémon to make and play with.
 
Bug

While Fire/Grass would indeed be cool, I've always wanted to see a kind of Fire-Fly Pokémon, so naturally I'll choose Bug. I'm guessing Grass will win though... (However, this causes another x4 Stealth Rock weak with Bug, and we can't go making another ability for it to avoid the damage, but I wouldn't be too bothered..)
 
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