I don't know what this post is implying but if it's implying that everyone and their grandmothers knew Fire/Grass was sure to win and that it wasn't even a contest to begin with, then yes I agree lol.
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CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 2 (Secondary Type)
- Thread starter Gothic Togekiss
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But do we really want that? Swampert would be annihilated if this was made, because of grass attacks, and if it similar to Swampert it wouldn't be originally. It would be make a Swampert clone then just changing his typing =/
Right because thats just what we need, a Garchomp without an ice weakness. Another Dragon to spice up the metagame.
This poll was made to give the illusion that all the other options had a chance. =D
Grass. Just 'cause I can.
Grass. Just 'cause I can.
yes seconding that ^^
A Lion would be so awesome :D
If we were to go with grass though, I think a desert
animal would be a good choice
The only real similarities to Swampert are that it's dual typed, and fills all three roles so some extent. Swampert doesn't die because we made a fire/grass pokemon, otherwise he'd be dead with all the Sceptile, Celebi, and Shaymin out there.
Knew it. Fire/Grass is winning
Just as well that I finished drawing my guy
Just as well that I finished drawing my guy
I'm late.
Do I really need to vote?
Honestly....
And for those saying the typing was determined in the last poll, it wasn't. It was determined before we knew Revenankh would even be a /Fighting type. That is how much people wanted Grass/Fire; Grass lost to Ghost by less than 5 votes last time, with a majority of the people supporting Grass/Fire. That's also probably why we focus on the Grass-type, we had this same discussion before with Grass as the main type.
Anyways, as long a Fire type uses Fire Blast, it is doing its job. That move rips through anything not resistant when backed by STAB. I know this from using Choice Specs Heatran. The 30% Burn rate doesn't hurt either. And since it is impossible to create a Fire-type without Fire Blast, it will always achieve its goal as a Fire type (unless we pull a Flareon, but I doubt that since both Fire and Grass lend themselves to a Special-Based offensive).
Basically, I want a Specially Offensive Fire/Grass type with nice Speed (preferably >100), good Special Attack, and the ability to rip the game up.
All this reminds me of Charizard destroying RB in-game. Does anyone else agree?
Do I really need to vote?
Honestly....
And for those saying the typing was determined in the last poll, it wasn't. It was determined before we knew Revenankh would even be a /Fighting type. That is how much people wanted Grass/Fire; Grass lost to Ghost by less than 5 votes last time, with a majority of the people supporting Grass/Fire. That's also probably why we focus on the Grass-type, we had this same discussion before with Grass as the main type.
Anyways, as long a Fire type uses Fire Blast, it is doing its job. That move rips through anything not resistant when backed by STAB. I know this from using Choice Specs Heatran. The 30% Burn rate doesn't hurt either. And since it is impossible to create a Fire-type without Fire Blast, it will always achieve its goal as a Fire type (unless we pull a Flareon, but I doubt that since both Fire and Grass lend themselves to a Special-Based offensive).
Basically, I want a Specially Offensive Fire/Grass type with nice Speed (preferably >100), good Special Attack, and the ability to rip the game up.
All this reminds me of Charizard destroying RB in-game. Does anyone else agree?
According to Deck Knight's calendar, we are now allowed to discuss whether it should be offensive, defensive, or mixed. I favor mixed because I like the idea of letting it be a wall or a sweeper dependent upon the EV spread.
Each discussion has a topic clearly labeled at the top. The topic of the current discussion is Secondary Type. The topic does not say "Interesting ideas about new pokemon". The rule is clearly stated in the Forum Rules:
A wall of text follows, so feel free to skip if you understand and agree with the rule. If not, read on.
Since there are a lot of new people on the project and Aldaron's opinion may be shared by many others, I'd like to explain why we do not allow the discussion to wander too far.
We've seen the problems with this in the past. An early-bird off-topic idea gets posted and it gains support. So much support, in fact, that many people think that the early off-topic idea was essentially voted for and adopted. Then when the REAL poll comes around, and something else is decided -- people bitch and moan about the decision and feel like they've been cheated.
Here's an actual example -- On the Syclant project, during the typing polls, many, many people voted for Bug because they liked the idea of an OU pokemon with STAB Megahorn not named Heracross. Despite the fact that moves are voted very late in the process, the idea of Megahorn was discussed and supported ad nauseum in the typing poll. So, Bug won.
Well, BST's were later decided and we arrived on the marvelous idea of 116 atk with 121 speed, and the artwork we chose didn't really have a horn on it. So when movesets came around, people rightfully acknowledged that those stats could not be paired with a 120bp STAB move like Megahorn, and the artwork didn't suggest the move anyway. Megahorn was not added to Syclant's movelist.
People screamed bloody murder over it! Many people claimed that the ONLY reason they voted for Bug in the typing poll was because they assumed that it would get Megahorn. They felt like they were duped, when in fact, the process simply played out that way. What could we do? Go back and overturn the BST poll? Ask for new art submissions? Redo the typing poll, even though we had completed the art and everything else? No. The mistake was allowing a movelist idea to take hold during the typing poll.
For this reason, we need to evaluate each poll on its own merits. Of course we all have ideas about where this pokemon is headed. It's even OK to vocalize some general ideas about it. But, when off-topic discussions start gaining steam and specificity, they have to be shut down because they give the appearance of a poll that has not yet taken place. People then start voting in the current poll based on assumptions about later poll results.
I'll pose a few rhetorical questions: "How many people will feel cheated if Chlorophyll isn't selected as an ability?" "Would you still vote for Grass if you knew that Chlorophyll would not be allowed?" Chlorophyll has been mentioned A TON. Despite the fact that we have a specific poll dedicated to abilities -- many people are assuming that one ability is already decided. Well, it hasn't been decided. Far from it. I can think of a million reasons that Chlorophyll might not even be a voting option. But, honestly, I don't care about it because it is a discussion for later.
This is not the first time we have done this. As much as you might think this process is restrictive, it really isn't. The process is not perfect. But, if we are going to create a pokemon through community voting -- we've learned the hard way, that it is best to take it step by step.
For newcomers to the project, your input and participation is welcome. But, we have rules for a reason. Be patient. There will be plenty of time to cover every competitive aspect of this pokemon. There's plenty of time for creativity from everyone. We don't have to cram it all into the first two threads.
A wall of text follows, so feel free to skip if you understand and agree with the rule. If not, read on.
Since there are a lot of new people on the project and Aldaron's opinion may be shared by many others, I'd like to explain why we do not allow the discussion to wander too far.
We've seen the problems with this in the past. An early-bird off-topic idea gets posted and it gains support. So much support, in fact, that many people think that the early off-topic idea was essentially voted for and adopted. Then when the REAL poll comes around, and something else is decided -- people bitch and moan about the decision and feel like they've been cheated.
Here's an actual example -- On the Syclant project, during the typing polls, many, many people voted for Bug because they liked the idea of an OU pokemon with STAB Megahorn not named Heracross. Despite the fact that moves are voted very late in the process, the idea of Megahorn was discussed and supported ad nauseum in the typing poll. So, Bug won.
Well, BST's were later decided and we arrived on the marvelous idea of 116 atk with 121 speed, and the artwork we chose didn't really have a horn on it. So when movesets came around, people rightfully acknowledged that those stats could not be paired with a 120bp STAB move like Megahorn, and the artwork didn't suggest the move anyway. Megahorn was not added to Syclant's movelist.
People screamed bloody murder over it! Many people claimed that the ONLY reason they voted for Bug in the typing poll was because they assumed that it would get Megahorn. They felt like they were duped, when in fact, the process simply played out that way. What could we do? Go back and overturn the BST poll? Ask for new art submissions? Redo the typing poll, even though we had completed the art and everything else? No. The mistake was allowing a movelist idea to take hold during the typing poll.
For this reason, we need to evaluate each poll on its own merits. Of course we all have ideas about where this pokemon is headed. It's even OK to vocalize some general ideas about it. But, when off-topic discussions start gaining steam and specificity, they have to be shut down because they give the appearance of a poll that has not yet taken place. People then start voting in the current poll based on assumptions about later poll results.
I'll pose a few rhetorical questions: "How many people will feel cheated if Chlorophyll isn't selected as an ability?" "Would you still vote for Grass if you knew that Chlorophyll would not be allowed?" Chlorophyll has been mentioned A TON. Despite the fact that we have a specific poll dedicated to abilities -- many people are assuming that one ability is already decided. Well, it hasn't been decided. Far from it. I can think of a million reasons that Chlorophyll might not even be a voting option. But, honestly, I don't care about it because it is a discussion for later.
This is not the first time we have done this. As much as you might think this process is restrictive, it really isn't. The process is not perfect. But, if we are going to create a pokemon through community voting -- we've learned the hard way, that it is best to take it step by step.
For newcomers to the project, your input and participation is welcome. But, we have rules for a reason. Be patient. There will be plenty of time to cover every competitive aspect of this pokemon. There's plenty of time for creativity from everyone. We don't have to cram it all into the first two threads.
No, one
For offensive, defensive, or mixed, I've already stated my optimal spread. I hoping for mixed with an emphasis on defensive over offensive and an emphasis for Special Attack over Attack.
That way, the plethora of support options a Grass / Fire can bring to the table are emphasized, while, depending on your team, it can run offensively as well with the boosted speed. A lot of potential there ;D
And I would absolutely vote for Grass again should Chlorophyll not be decided as the ability lol. I said I voted for the type, first, not the ability. If people screamed bloody murder in the first topic because Megahorn was not added after Bug, that was their own fault for not realizing the consequences of their votes. I am fully aware of the consequence of my vote. I am merely discussing why I am possibly considering this type. That isn't off topic.
EDIT:
That way, the plethora of support options a Grass / Fire can bring to the table are emphasized, while, depending on your team, it can run offensively as well with the boosted speed. A lot of potential there ;D
And I would absolutely vote for Grass again should Chlorophyll not be decided as the ability lol. I said I voted for the type, first, not the ability. If people screamed bloody murder in the first topic because Megahorn was not added after Bug, that was their own fault for not realizing the consequences of their votes. I am fully aware of the consequence of my vote. I am merely discussing why I am possibly considering this type. That isn't off topic.
EDIT:
Key part here is the "random ideas." I agree with that, but since you happened to refer to me specifically, I'll respond appropriately. My "ideas" have not been "random." They have all been statements regarding why I choose that typing, and then discussing the most relevant part of the Pokemon, the competitive aspect. Discussing support options such as Leech Seed + Will-o-wisp or sweeping options such as Chlorophyll when viewing a Fire / Grass combination is certainly not random.
I agree with Hyra, if it is going to be a Fire/Grass it should have those stats and attributes
Agreed, totally too early to start discussion of these sorts of things, especially when it's not even certain that Fire/Grass will be the final type (though I have no doubt that it will be). As for what the pokemon job will be,
remember that the primary type is Fire, not Grass. Powerful, not stallish. Fast, not bulky. Any possibility of a subseeder will be in shadow of its potential as a sweeper. Think Infernape, not Venusaur/Tangrowth in other words.
I don't believe Fire needs to be a sweeper. It can be bulky just as well. Especially when backed by a more passive type, like Grass.
Darn it, I want to see Fire make use of those awesome resistances.
Darn it, I want to see Fire make use of those awesome resistances.
I object to the fast bit. I'd rather have a bulky Pokemon that can take a ton of hits than one that outspeeds a bunch, only to die to someone that can either take the hit or outspeed (either or), and then kill it.
agreed, fusing those two is what I want. 104.5 SAtk (yay averages!) and 114 Speed sounds nice. The other stats don't matter as much to me, Subseed works with any amount of HP besides enormous, Fire+Grass don't lend themselves to Physical (even Infernape only really uses his Special side), and defenses are defenses.
Of course, I don't want Infernape's movepool, outside of the standard and Encore (wait Jumpluff likes Encore too...). No Swords Dance or Nasty Plot or stat-up moves in general. Support moves yes, stat-ups no.
Btw, its called Sceptape.
Uh wow Cooper, that is about the most close minded approach you could possible take, lol.
Fire is associated only with sweeping and fast Pokemon? OK, but so what?
This doesn't mean we should stick within that mold...Fire / Grass opens up so many options for team support that going bulky is almost more intuitive than going offensive (unless of course, Chlorophyll is brought into play).
Fire is associated only with sweeping and fast Pokemon? OK, but so what?
This doesn't mean we should stick within that mold...Fire / Grass opens up so many options for team support that going bulky is almost more intuitive than going offensive (unless of course, Chlorophyll is brought into play).
What about Torkoal and Magcargo, and to some extent, Ninetails and Heatran? ;p
What about Arcanine and Flareon (lolz), plus there's always Belly Drum ;)
Inseptail
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