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CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 2 (Secondary Type)

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People, let's not discuss about possible names now, its not like this place will close soon.

Azacin~ Yes, wrong place to post pictures yet, in fact...where is the art poll going to be held anyway?

DougJustDoug said:
Big wall of text is big, but informative
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Took me awhile to read all that you said and I agree with you fully. I actually remember how everyone freaked out when it was told Scylant wasn't going to have Megahorn when everyone had their heart set for it. We're all jumping too far ahead of ourselves despite what most say. I think what's happening was that they were explaining their reasoning for what they voted on so well via using semi-submitted stat spreads and build/roles that everyone got caught in the hype.

Dane said:
Well that, and that being a reason why we were discussing style and, by extension, BST. It was such a landslide that no discussion was really needed for this particular topic.
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But that still didn't mean we could go far off-topic with it. Is one full day really that hard to wait?

Magmortified said:
This poll was made to give the illusion that all the other options had a chance. =D
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They did had a chance to win, but after all the discussion over Fire/Grass they're chances of winning were slim.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
People, let's not discuss about possible names now, its not like this place will close soon.
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It was a joke, since you wanted some crazy ass Infernape/Sceptile name joke I tried to combine them and still make a word. It ended up being a horribly butchered version of Insecticide, which looked nothing like the word.

in fact...where is the art poll going to be held anyway?
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Why not in this forum? Maybe when the time comes, ask Doug to put a message on the main page since it's probably the biggest lure for those who wouldn't otherwise participate?

Took me awhile to read all that you said and I agree with you fully. I actually remember how everyone freaked out when it was told Scylant wasn't going to have Megahorn when everyone had their heart set for it. We're all jumping too far ahead of ourselves despite what most say.
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Agreed, which is why I didn't want to discuss moves outside of SubSeed, since I think nearly everything gets sub, and the seed part... gave something to talk about.

But that still didn't mean we could go far off-topic with it. Is one full day really that hard to wait?
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I admit it started going too far off, but it started off with good intentions. And when between jobs, classes not discussing anything new to study (I blame spring break...), and my other hobbies being stalled until the end of the month... yes =P
 
Hi, I'm new here, and I'm wondering if I could possibly help with the "Carnivine evo" idea?

250px-Hunter_ing.jpg

This work? Metroid Prime 2 artwork FTW!

Fire/Grass is pure coverage win.
This lends itself well to Power Whip, Solarbeam, and Fire Blast.
 
Well I'm not exactly as agreeable as Dane is. We discussed moves because the potential moves and strategies based off of these potential moves are both significant in deciding the type.

SubSeed, general support, sweeping (with Chlorophyll) were brought up because they lent to discussion for our choice of Fire / Grass.

Anyway, the naming was obviously a joke, haha.

I would like to discuss the problem with falling into the traps of "Type stereotypes," however, since this type topic seems to be the most appropriate ;D

Why should we assume that the Pokemon of the type combination we choose should stick to the general trend of Pokemon that Gamefreak has created?
 
Gothic Togekiss:

I came up with an idea/possible solution to the "early bird idea" problem. Maybe have two checklist polls that list what people want and don't want, along with a seperate discussion forum. For example, if people really want the pokemon to have chlorophyll, or not as the case maybe, you can have that shown in a checklist poll. Then when base-stats and movepools are made by users, they have a concise list of things to consider balance-wise.

Lets say that theoretically there are two checklist polls, one that shows what people want, and another that people dont want. Lets say that as a result of voting we see that people want a bulky, mid hp, chlorophyll pokemon that doesn't learn synthesis, but can use physical and special both, and doesn't sub-seed. Obviously such an outcome is unlikely, but you get the point.

From this the people who make BST and movepool submissions can glean what they can do to make a balanced pokemon. We could probably approximate what people are considering after this poll closes, and then open the suggested checklist polls while polling for base stat levels.

Its not perfect, and this post probably belongs in the process workshop, but it could maybe help balance the community feeling, the bandwagon, and balance.
 
i think im a bit late once again, Grass [/bandwagon] because i guess it would only have a couple of weaknesses.
 
Dane said:
It was a joke, since you wanted some crazy ass Infernape/Sceptile name joke I tried to combine them and still make a word. It ended up being a horribly butchered version of Insecticide, which looked nothing like the word.
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I was too busy reading Doug's huge post and talking to something to noticed the joke.

Dane said:
Why not in this forum? Maybe when the time comes, ask Doug to put a message on the main page since it's probably the biggest lure for those who wouldn't otherwise participate?
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Originally I was believing that the best place for the art poll(s) was in Smeargle Studio since it's art related but since it's also CaP related it could fit here as well.

Dane said:
Agreed, which is why I didn't want to discuss moves outside of SubSeed, since I think nearly everything gets sub, and the seed part... gave something to talk about.
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Understandable but still, it doesn't have to go way off topic. Next time, try to keep it slightly closer to the topic at hand.

Dane said:
I admit it started going too far off, but it started off with good intentions. And when between jobs, classes not discussing anything new to study (I blame spring break...), and my other hobbies being stalled until the end of the month... yes =P
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Again understandable.

Master of the Six Kings said:
Red Panda
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Seen one before, it's a interesting animal to base a pokemon on.

Death Meanie~ That idea is nice and I wish you was here to suggest that before this whole thing got started.
 
Darth Meanie said:
Its not perfect, and this post probably belongs in the process workshop, but it could maybe help balance the community feeling, the bandwagon, and balance.
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This is the crux of the matter. We've made rules, and we need to stick with them. We can't change in the middle of the project, but please do bring it up again before the next one.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
Originally I was believing that the best place for the art poll(s) was in Smeargle Studio since it's art related but since it's also CaP related it could fit here as well.
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Ah, so that's where the confusion came from. I knew there was an art section, but didn't know where it was or what it was called. Hmm... is there maybe a way to have a shortcut (ala windows) from there to a post made here, without being an outright "Hey, come post art in this thread!"?
 
Aldaron said:
Uh wow Cooper, that is about the most close minded approach you could possible take, lol.

Fire is associated only with sweeping and fast Pokemon? OK, but so what?

This doesn't mean we should stick within that mold...Fire / Grass opens up so many options for team support that going bulky is almost more intuitive than going offensive (unless of course, Chlorophyll is brought into play).
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Anyone who thinks fire can only be sweeper needs to take a good look at ho-oh >>
 
As far as what I'll support for sytle/build?

I'll be going with Defensive Special.

If I had to do a rough sketch of defenses:

70 HP/95 Def/120 SDef

Subseeders should not be able to create 101 HP Subs. Not only does it neuter Subseeding as a strategy, but it is just counterintuitive to most grass pokemon.

The only pokemon that uses Seismic Toss anymore is Blissey. You get so much HP from Blissey after Leech Seed that it doesn't even matter. You could have Shuckle's base HP and as long as Bliss was seeded it would be unable to beat you. However, you should at least have competent HP on a defensive pokemon.

70 HP is enough to Subseed competently while still being able to take generic hits. If you really hate Seismic Toss, 338 HP is enough to take 4 Seismic Tosses while Leftovers are equipped. 70 HP maxes at 344. The High SDef is to make this a competent special wall, seeing as the only common special attacks it has a weakness to are Sludge Bomb and Air Slash. 95 Def will let it switch in on random EQs and Waterfalls.

I haven't figured out attacks or speed yet, but I'd probably be leaning 70 Atk/110 SA, with 55 Speed. The total BST with those numbers would be 520. If you really wanted to put Chlorophyll on it, you could still break 404 speed without nature.

Those stats would give us a slow but defensive fire type that still had enough SA to say "Hey Guys would like like FB?" It could also at least attempt to use Seed Bomb or Fire Fang, although maybe only after a Swords Dance.

As far as Fire/Grass envision:

1417.jpg
 
I question a Fire/Grass's capability to be truly bulky when we've got the bane of nearly all Fire-types, Stealth Rock, looming over every damn corner.

That said, I still vote Grass, because I really like the idea of a Kingdra-for-Sunny Day.
 
Dane said:
What about Torkoal and Magcargo, and to some extent, Ninetails and Heatran? ;p
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The problem here is that two of the four you named have additional typing that are known for their bulkiness. I'll give you Torkoal though.

As for close-mindedness, I prefer to think of it as sticking to the stereotypes GF gave us to work with. even their attempt at making a special Fighting type in Lucario didn't work so well, as Vacuum Wave and Aura Sphere have proved useful only in some mixed sets and with Specs. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with breaking the mold here, but just that tradition dictates a frail sweeper with an awesome movepool.
 
Cooper said:
The problem here is that two of the four you named have additional typing that are known for their bulkiness. I'll give you Torkoal though.

As for close-mindedness, I prefer to think of it as sticking to the stereotypes GF gave us to work with. even their attempt at making a special Fighting type in Lucario didn't work so well, as Vacuum Wave and Aura Sphere have proved useful only in some mixed sets and with Specs. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with breaking the mold here, but just that tradition dictates a frail sweeper with an awesome movepool.
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The fire stereotype isn't always fragile sweepers, even though every single fire type has an offensive stat at or over 100 (bar Torkoal and Magcargo) There's nothing particularly "fragile" about Arcanine (95/80/80 w/Intimidate) or Ninetales (73/75/100). It's mostly the EQ weak that gets them.

As for grassers, those are all over the map from annoyers like Venu to Aromatherapists like Vileplume and Meganium to sweepers like Sceptile and Roserade. If anything, Fire could benefit from Grass stereotypes far more than Grass could from fire.
 
I vote for Grass.
And damn school again, I was preparing a thing for why people should vote Grass.
I'll finish it up anyways.
 
@Meta ridley:
No Hunter Ing! They're simply to bitchy to fucking kill, especially with low light beam ammo. The Hunter Commando's are worse. I'd suggest Emperor ing First form / Last form for MP2:E Artwork for a Fire/grass. I'll post pics later.

@Everyone else:

List is still coming.
 
if voting is still open... it's pointless but I'm voting fire/poison because I think poison types aren't represented enough in OU and it would be an interesting typing. Obviously it isn't happening but I thought Fire/dragon would also be interesting, add on to the physical sweeping dragons or make it a special sweeper, fun possibilities.
 
As for grassers, those are all over the map from annoyers like Venu to Aromatherapists like Vileplume and Meganium to sweepers like Sceptile and Roserade. If anything, Fire could benefit from Grass stereotypes far more than Grass could from fire.
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Wait, how is Fire benefitting from Grass stereotypes when you just stated there aren't any?

I suppose we still have to wait for the stat polls before officially deciding what type of spread it's going to have, but I like the general idea of decent speed, with average/slightly below hp/atk/def, and good special stats. I'd still like to see a usable attack stat, though, especially given the shortage of good physical grass attackers.
 
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