CAP 32 - Part 5 - Primary Ability Discussion

[Amamama]

At this point I want to discuss, why I don’t particularly like Magic Guard for this Mon.

A lot of why I don’t enjoy it is summarized in this post from Snake, that was made during Astrolotus ability stage. Here they discussed the shortcomings of Magic guard on a Mon that for all intents and purposes has some key similarities to what we are trying to build right now.
Weak to stealth rock offensive pivot with a good offensive typing.

In this post Snake relates how Magic Guard+Life Orb will essentially hijack our stats stage.
Assuming that an offensive fire type with Magic guard will run any other item than life orb is very bold, which means we will have to account for this item in our calcs. Now looking at our concept that idea isn’t technically bad since it likely means we will be able to lower the effective attacking stat of CAP32.
BUT imo basing our calcs on MG Life Orb will have a negative impact on CAP32 in practice, as losing the item will cripple it to the point of making it useless, something I like to call „unacceptable Shrimp Syndrome“ In reference to Krilowatt, which needs its item to function as a breaker and pivot.
Even now that Kril is one of the hardest to check mons in the tier staying in on it with a Mon like Venom or argh and knock off its item and later recover the damage is a play worth thinking about, as it removes Krils ability to reliably offend threaten these two mons. Krill’s viability last gen tanked as one of the mons it was supposed to beat - Torn-T - was also one of the most notorious knock spammers.
I now fear that in our pursuit of low stats we will bind CAP32 to Life Orb and effectively make it a Mon that is very hard to pilot in game, fearing knock off as much as we would with any other ability and boots.
Now knocks distribution has been limited this gen so all this a little less worrying than it might have been during Astros process.
Still another issue I see with MG is that compared to other abilities it both gives less direction to create a viable niche for 32 and eats more of our power budget, which makes me wonder what exactly will allow CAP32 to stand apart from other fire type breakers and pivots that are able to hold boots and still be strong without lifeorb I.e cinderace, Volcarona, iron moth or skeledirge, hell even Astro.

Also quick excursion to the other semi banned ability that’s getting discussion.
Regenerator isn’t as good as it is on Torn bc we will have to run boots. While Torn made other items work with it, this was also partly due to its immunity to spikes. 32 on the other hand would take both stealth rock and spikes without boots.
That said I think even still is solid here albeit well treaded ground as Astro already does it.



So this isn’t a post that only talks about what I don’t like, I want to thrown in support for Pixilate, Prankster and Snow Warning.

All three of these are capable of opening niches, which nothing else can offer at this moment.
The absolute leftfield option is Snow warning.
Why is it good?
It carries two archetypes. Previous Hail teams used a combination of Aurora veil and Hail chip plus Slush Rush for a bulky offense team. This archetype doesn’t exist atm bc there’s no good hail plus veil setter.
Aurora Veil HO was huge at the end of gen of SS but with no viable setter is currently dead.
CAP 32 could carry both these archetypes on its own.
On top, with its defensive profile plus Hail 32 would be THE top switch in to Bao denying it basically all means of progress In walling it’s stabs, removing sun and nerfing Baos recovery, while threatening it with SE stab. What’s more it would be very effective at keeping up hail to set veil or pivot in a teammate, since Bao resetting the weather would mean potentially switching into a sun boosted fire move.
Snow warning plus veil plus Stabs plus pivoting is incredibly coherent in enabling Hail and HO structures.
Tho tbf there’s a lot of theorymonning at play here since none of this exists atm.

Prankster is a great ability to increase the threat this Mon presents to opposing teams.
Sableye demonstrated how far Prankster can take an utterly weak Mon in the right circumstances.
While I doubt that Sableyes particular brand of spamming burn works here with fire types being such good switch ins to 32, other utility moves paired with Prankster like speed control and fast encore could cary this mon to be a good anti offense mon.

My favorite of the bunch is Pixilate though. Particularly to open the possibility of unique fairy type priority.
Any type of priority is a good way to create a niche for a Pokémon, even if it’s not guaranteed to make something viable.
Moreover Priority means that its speed stat is less important for CAP 32s offensive presence.
The room you can create with strong priority against fast and frail mons means you might need less defense and could neglect speed for a possible stats spread. Breloom is an excellent example of this.
Now strong priority on its own might not cut it tbh, especially off a weaker attacking stat.
But if you consider the fast and frail mons that STAB Fairy Priority targets, you realize how much value CAP 32 could have as a form of speed control.
Dragapult, Valiant, Roaring moon, Greninja, Meowscarada, Baxcalibur, Miasmaw and Quaquaval are all mons that usually outspeed most of the meta (in some cases after a boost), that would be weak to fairy type priority, which would enable CAP32 as a revenge killer and speed control against these mons.
Targeting these offensive mons also would mean that we wouldn’t necessarily need as much power in our offensive stats to still be threatening enough to opposing teams as well as enable CAP 32 to use the space it could create against offensive threats to gain momentum with its own pivoting.

 

[ausma]

Quick thoughts on what I like, am whatever on, and don't like while I have a bit of time, as well as an ability submission or two of my own. Everything will be ordered from what I like the most to what I like the least.

1: Magic Guard is a pretty obvious and clear direction we can take. The benefits of it are useful for any Pokemon, but as a Fire-type pivot they are far more emphasized due to our Stealth Rock weakness. Not only being immune to hazards that would otherwise pressure us doing our job, but being able to pivot into Knock Off and having our item slot leveraged for utility like Leftovers/Rocky Helmet or a riskless Life Orb are truly exceptional. Clefable also is proof of how much of a gamechanger having this ability with a good resistance profile is, even without good stats. Magic Guard would make us good, no doubt about that, and the applications of a passive damage immunity alongside middling stats has some unique design space to explore in and of itself.

There is some discussion about Magic Guard being too good, such that some options like Life Orb would be leagues above others and the stat stage would be warped hard by these obviously optimal options, which inadvertently limits design space anyway. I think this is a valid point, but I think it's really important to consider our type here. Our unique and powerful resistance profile is not something we can dismiss, and in fact could be a defining reason people opt to use CAP 32 anyway. I can feasibly see teams opt for other items to better emphasize the strengths of it, such as Leftovers to stave off U-turn chip and better pivot into Kingambit or Rocky Helmet to take advantage of our physically-oriented resistances and make progress into the aforementioned Kingambit or Cinderace. With Magic Guard to bat it's far more feasible to use CAP 32 as an offensive check, which I think is worth considering.

2: Regenerator is good, like really good. Tornadus-T is the pinnacle of what pivoting, Regenerator, and good resistances does to a mf even with a Stealth Rock weakness. Much like Magic Guard we leverage our Stealth Rock weakness by outhealing it, granting us room to explore our item slot a la Torn, but with Heavy-Duty Boots we prime ourselves with asinine resilience. I feel it's a more conservative angle on the core merits of Magic Guard on an offensive pivot, with situationally more payoff. I really like it a lot and for me it's close behind Magic Guard if not for the fact we are vulnerable to Knock Off with Regenerator.

3: Levitate or Earth Eater are honest and very good options. Mitigating our Ground-type weakness is the second best thing we can provide CAP 32, as it means we actually consistently answer Baxcalibur, Great Tusk, Garchomp, and more reliably pressure Equilibra. Granting CAP 32 with more switch-in opportunities into dangerous Pokemon means it can do its job more overall and more consistently. Although it's somewhat generic, it is undeniably a strong choice.

4: Adaptability is kind of boring imo but I can't deny that it would be a good ability to have. It's Adaptability lol. This gives our STAB combo far more kick and most importantly, leverages the stat stage a lot, which is probably the ability's main draw for a Bang Average CAP. Honestly there's not a ton to say about it, it's fine but I'm not really crazy passionate about it since I feel we'd rather spend this stage to work around the unavoidable weaknesses given by our type as opposed to boosting our threat potential, which high BP/progress-making tools can help us do anyway.

5: Pixilate is a cute option. On paper it seems inconsequential, but STAB Body Slam to threaten status onto opposing Fire-types, Extreme Speed for insane priority, and/or Boomburst for an explosive STAB option are absolutely no joke. This would certainly be a beneficial ability but my issue with it is that it doesn't really provide anything for CAP 32 that necessarily addresses its core problems barring maybe Boomburst. We don't really need priority and we're probably pivoting out against a projected Fire-type switch-in anyway. It's a bit of a limited angle too since design space centers around taking advantage of a few specific Normal-type moves, which can work but it's not really worth our primary ability to do when there's more pressing matters for it.

6: Sharpness is pretty much all in on Bitter Blade. There are some really cool slicing options like Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge this could let us consider, but it's also fairly limited imo.

7: Electric Surge is a candidate to me mostly because I am a massive shill for Volt Switch on CAP 32 (aka impractical bias), but let's be real: this is kind of a really reductionist route. It's undeniable we'd be good as an autoset enabler of Paradox Pokemon with pivoting (see Pincurchin, who is viable with middling stats and without pivoting) but... that's kind of all we'd be, and I think that's really underwhelming and limiting, even if I think there's some merit.

8: Technician benefits Draining Kiss, Flame Charge, and Flame Wheel. Neat. In all seriousness, I don't really see what this accomplishes for us aside from giving Draining Kiss more kick, which, while nice, is immensely limiting and not really worthwhile at all given our role unless you want to advocate for Flip Turn I guess.

And now, it's my turn to submit something: Poison Touch. No, this is not a joke.

Poison Touch is a really interesting, very underutilized ability that in my eyes is a fantastic pick on an offensive pivot that is middling in immediate power and desperately craves progress to become threatening. Giving ourselves the ability to juice the potential mileage of Knock Off and options like U-turn simply by just doing what we want to do in the early game is seriously nifty. It is worth noting that this may be a bit awkward as it forces us to play more physical (which may not be ideal), though I don't think this is a necessarily bad thing as Knock Off is extremely useful into Venomicon and outright threatens Skeledirge, and there was prior discussion about Bitter Blade as well which makes very solid use of this ability. This could also be seen as a bit limiting as well, but I think that can be discussed.

--

edit: snow warning sucks, sorry i rly dont like it

 

[StarFalcon555]

If you've read my posts on Discord you know that I am a DIEHARD fan of Earth Eater. With all the Ground types in the metagame this is just such as solid ability which you can't go wrong with, turning our matchups against Pokemon like Great Tusk and Equilibra from "could check but most likely won't have the stats to" to "WILL straight up COUNTER" and I just really love that. I prefer Earth Eater over Levitate because of the recovery that Earth Eater provides, meaning that we won't have to sacrifice a moveslot for recovery and we can still increase our longevity.

Another option that I've recently grown strongly fond of is Psychic Surge. Psychic coverage was commonly discussed in the Defining Moves section for good reason - Fire/Fairy/Psychic coverage is near unresisted. By giving CAP32 Psychic Surge, we will basically have a Pokemon with three STABs without the need to Terastallize, with said STABs being unresisted coverage. We'd basically be a more cracked Indeedee. Of course, we'll have to handle our movepool carefully to balance this, but I think it could be possible, especially with our lower BST.

As for abilities that haven't been discussed yet:

Brown4Sides brought up Pixilate, which I do like a lot (and prefer strongly over the alternative suggestion Adaptability), but I want to bring up a very similar ability that could also work very well, that being Galvanize. can you tell I like the idea of triple-STAB no-Tera CAP32 a lot LMAOOOOOO Electric was another coverage type that was commonly discussed in the Defining Moves section, for good reason, as it greatly helps out against Water-types that this CAP would otherwise struggle with, specifically Snaelstrom and Toxapex. Caribolt's presence in this meta is a good enough case for why Galvanize would be good on this Pokemon - powerful Electric moves are really good in the metagame with the right coverage, and I think CAP32 has that potential.

On the more defensive/support side, an ability I think could be interesting that hasn't been brought up yet is Multiscale. I am aware that this will force us to run Heavy-Duty Boots in order to not have our Multiscale immediately broken by hazards, but this ability helps mitigate our lower base stats really nicely by letting us take one attack extraordinarily well guaranteed. We also have a pretty solid defensive typing in order to utilize this, and with some solid recovery it could definitely let us force progress (think Zarude in SS UU). Certainly an option worth considering.

Finally, I want to talk about Natural Cure here. As an offensive pivot with lower base stats, we're really going to need a good way of staying alive, and status moves do not help us with this in the slightest. Enter Natural Cure. It synergizes really well with our role as an offensive pivot, letting us easily make progress on status spreaders like Toxapex, Clodsire, and Snaelstrom, while also getting around sneaky Sludge Bomb/Gunk Shot poisons from Venomicon, sneaky Thunderbolt paras from Krilowatt, and other such RNG bullshit. Being immune to burn does make this a little less effective, as burn is the most common status in the tier currently, but I think Natural Cure is still worth discussing.

TLDR: throwing support behind Earth Eater and Psychic Surge, submitting Galvanize, Multiscale, and Natural Cure

 

[Scizivire]

Magic Guard and Regenerator.

In response to this, Magic Guard and Regen are strong options that seem to be quite popular, so as of now we will treat these as unbanned for this stage.

Not like everyone and their mother was already talking about Magic Guard anyways... C'mon guys, please read the OP.

 

[IronTemplar]

Breaking this up into 2 pieces
Offence
Sharpness: STAB Bitter Blade if considered. Doesn’t add much else, but provides a strong recovery option
Pixilate: Turns every Normal move into STAB. Notable moves include Extreme Speed and Boomburst

Defense
Earth Eater: 1 fewer weakness, in particular against Earthquake
Storm Drain: Same argument as above. I’m suggesting Storm Drain instead of Water Absorb to widen the applications further
Levitate: Like Earth Eater but keeps the lower hazards away

 

[honestabeman]

I agree with much of Brambane's post, specifically his grouping of abilities into (i) Immunities, (ii) Speed and (iii) Weird Niches. As obviously good as Regenerator is, I personally don't find it very interesting so will leave it to others to address that.

I think going with an ability that roughly falls in one of these three categories is the best way forward. I personally would prefer an ability that augments our speed or provides a "weird niche" as I think we have more to learn from that than using super-powered abilities like Magic Guard and Regenerator. We already have existing examples of those abilities placing average mons into OU, so we should go another direction.

---------
One ability not yet mentioned is Stakeout. This augments our attacking profile in a way that synergizes with our role of Offensive Pivot. This ability will force the opponent to make difficult decisions after CAP32 switches in, especially if we have greater speed or some type of priority move. The dual STAB combo of Fire and Fairy with high BP moves like Armor Cannon would make for an extremely strong offensive pivot that has a clear weakness in Stealth Rocks, which will help limit how often CAP32 can enter and threaten to finish off low HP mons while denying useful switches.

I also like Speed Boost for similar reasons. This allows us to provide CAP 32 a meager speed stat, understanding that our offensive profile can stregthen greatly if we take advantage of a good matchup/switch-in and are able to raise our speed +1 or +2. This is another way we can get around our "average" stats, fulfill our role of pivot by switching in and threatening to run away with big speed if played correctly.

---------

For abilities mentioned by others, I support :

Pixilate - Opens up our STAB options, which in turns gives us access to a variety of extra tools come movepool stage. I won't assume anything, but STAB priority moves, moves with strong secondary effects, etc.

Snow Warning - We instantly find our niche. This is a little weak and maybe not as "fun" as other options, since we are kinda throwing in our hands in the air at the concept and allowing our unique-ness to come solely from our ability.

Prankster - Again this gives us a lot of options come movepool stage, and a lot of flexibility. I easily see how this will help with pivoting and will give us situations that easily give CAP32 the upper hand in battle even with middling stats.

 

[dex]

Snow Warning - We instantly find our niche. This is a little weak and maybe not as "fun" as other options, since we are kinda throwing in our hands in the air at the concept and allowing our unique-ness to come solely from our ability.

I'm sorry, but what niche does this provide? There are no snow abusers that are viable in CAP currently unless you count Sub + Ice Body Baxcalibur (which would still rather have the burn immunity from Thermal!) If weather resetting is the goal, then Slowking is by far the better choice. If Aurora Veil is the goal, I'll take the chance to say that the majority of HO squads at the moment are shunning Grimmsnarl, a pretty crazy good screen setter, for Orthworm. I fail to see how Snow Warning will "find our niche".

 

[kenn]

I wanna put my thoughts out here on abilities I think could do us well (Prankster, Pixilate, Levitate) and one particular one that feels good but could be extremely warping (Magic Guard).

I wanna formally submit Prankster (despite it being mentioned I don't think anyone has formally submitted it) as the ability for CAP 32. The main idea behind this is to allow CAP 32 to not have to worry about its potentially subpar Speed thanks to the concept and thrive against fast threats by potentially pivoting out before they attack via Parting Shot (as this was slated in Defining Moves Part 1) or crippling physical attackers such as Great Tusk via Will-O-Wisp or Strength Sap, which also provides priority recovery. I also think it allows us to be more offensively focused on the utility side as our STABs alone are pretty powerful.

As for Pixilate, I think this could open up some neat avenues as we could get access to powerful physical STAB (our only option really if we don't have this ability is Play Rough which has a chance to miss) while also still having neat utility options like a Fairy-type Rapid Spin. We also gain potential access to STAB priority in Quick Attack or Extreme Speed; however, this could be seen as warping. It could also prove fruitful on the special side with powerful moves such as Hyper Voice or Boomburst to offset our average Special Attack.

If I were to choose an immunity ability, the one I would advocate for the most is Levitate. While Earth Eater seems like the better option, as CAP 32 would run Boots anyways and it provides recovery, I feel like Levitate gives us a bit more freedom to switch into hazards and Knock Off because if we are to lose our Boots, we would still only be weak to Stealth Rock instead of all hazards, making us a better check to Great Tusk in my opinion.

Now for the elephant in the room...Magic Guard. I really love the idea of what this ability could do for CAP 32 as it seems to check all the boxes, but my worry is that it is moreso because it a generally good ability rather than being the "perfect pick". I think with Magic Guard we just kinda "seal CAP 32's fate" as a "Fire/Fairy Clefable" but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I do see exactly why Magic Guard would be perfect thanks to avoiding status, entry hazards, and allows the freedom from having to run Boots 99% of the time. I'm just afraid that Magic Guard is overshadowing any other potential options that may allow CAP 32 to do what it wants as an offensive pivot so I am a tentative yes but I personally like the other options that I have mentioned as well as some others such as dex's Adaptability submission.

 

[honestabeman]

I'm sorry, but what niche does this provide?

The niche of setting up weather. Would Pelipper be in OU if it did not have Drizzle? Would rain-abusing mons have playtime in OU if Pelipper didn't have Drizzle?

Being the sole mon to be able to set a weather type is obviously filling a niche. You can argue whether that fits the concept for CAP32 or not, but to argue that it does not fill a niche, that also assists in raising our power level, is a weird hill to die on.

 

[dex]

The niche of setting up weather. Would Pelipper be in OU if it did not have Drizzle? Would rain-abusing mons have playtime in OU if Pelipper didn't have Drizzle?

Being the sole mon to be able to set a weather type is obviously filling a niche. You can argue whether that fits the concept for CAP32 or not, but to argue that it does not fill a niche, that also assists in raising our power level, is a weird hill to die on.

Pelipper and Torkoal are OU right now because there are excellent abusers of their weathers. That's the reason Abomasnow isn't. Snow doesn't have a Floatzel or an Iron Moth. Slush Rushers, which is limited to Cetitan and Beartic, are nowhere near the level of the other weathers' partners. Hell, Pincurchin saw OU usage and is viable in UU despite being, well, pretty trash because there are great abusers of Electric Terrain. Hail was great in SS because Arctozolt existed, but SV has nothing comparable. Snow doesn't have the sweepers and breakers it needs to be worth it, so it isn't really a niche that needs to be filled; the niche doesn't exist.

 

[Brambane]

Snow Warning's niche is pretty clear and distinct.

1. Would enable Aurora Veil - Grimmsnarl doesn't see nearly the same use on HO as Orthworm, but Grimmsnarl is also extremely strapped for moveslots and lacks complete and utter offensive presence, especially against anything that can block its Parting Shot (Hatterene, Kingambit, etc). CAP32 would be compressing both screens into a single moveslot, leaving two slots for STAB and free slot for some other coverage/pivoting/utility move. CAP32 would be far better equipped to contribute in other ways to the team, and that is on top of the fact it's STAB pressures the most common Defog user in the format, Corviknight.

2. Clearing Weather as a Fire Resist - Aside from the fact we switch into Jumbao easily by default, being able to switch into other Fire-types in the sun circumvents their breaking power. While Iron Moth does often need to swing with coverage, we would force it into a tougher time deciding what to click than just the simplicity of launching a Sun-boosted Overheat at anything, which does a metric fuckload. It would also remove Protosynthesis, which CAP32 could take advantage of against non-Booster Roaring Moon or help its team answer other Protosynthesis mons.

3. Increasing the Defense of Ice-type allies -... which is basically just Baxcalibur, who's benefit from increase Defense is fairly obvious and straightfoward.

So the niche does certainly exist. Snow Warning is not my favorite, not even in my top five, abilities for this project. But it is certainly valid. It provides a tangible and unique identity for CAP32 that is interactive with the metagame and obvious teambuilding synergies to facilitate.

 

[bigtibba]

The way I see it, there are two fundamental obstacles with CAP 32, both of which are addressed by Magic Guard.

1. Weakness to hazards. Admittedly, Heavy Duty Boots does mitigate this a bit. However, one big difference between the CAP metagame and the rest of Gen 9 is the prevalence of Knock Off. Several top Pokemon in the metagame, such as Venomicon, Arghonaut, and Great Tusk, commonly run Knock Off, to say nothing of the other Pokemon that carry it, such as Crucibelle or Iron Valiant. Additionally, since CAP 32 is intended to function as an offensive pivot, it will likely want to come in several times per game, and its weakness to hazards severaly hinders this. Magic Guard completely mitigates this.

2. Mediocre stats = mediocre pressure. This can be circumvented in some way by high base power moves such as Armor Cannon, but fundamentally CAP 32 cannot apply enough offensive pressure to stand out as an offensive pivot, especially with its lack of strong Fairy coverage. As proven by Krilowatt, however, an offensive stat of 83 is more than enough to apply offensive pressure when combined with a free Life Orb.

A lot of the other suggested abilities could be useful on a Pokemon with better stats, but I'm not sure they suffice on a Pokemon with mediocre stats. Additionally, some of them, such as Adaptability, are essentially worse versions of Magic Guard. For example, Boots+Adaptability is basically a worse version of LO+Magic Guard, as Adaptability only applies to STAB moves. Additionally, CAP 32 with Adaptability would be crippled by Knock Off. Since Magic Guard is probably the best ability in the game, and would be even more incredibly useful on a Fire/Fairy type, any other ability chosen feels suboptimal. The only reason not to run Magic Guard in my opinion is if it would be too powerful, and I don't think that would be the case if its stats are average enough.

Edit: Forgot to mention Pixilate. I really like Pixilate E-Speed, especially on a Pokemon without set-up moves. It would be very useful in the current meta, allowing it to check Pokemon such as Dragapult, Iron Valiant, or Roaring Moon. Would probably be my second choice, but again, it just feels suboptimal to Magic Guard.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Additionally, some of them, such as Adaptability, are essentially worse versions of Magic Guard. For example, Boots+Adaptability is basically a worse version of LO+Magic Guard, as Adaptability only applies to STAB moves. Additionally, CAP 32 with Adaptability would be crippled by Knock Off.

I'm sorry but I have to refute the bolded part, because it simple just isn't true for a few reasons

1: The most obvious one, which is that Boots + Adaptability is actually stronger than LO + Magic Guard in terms of just raw damage.

252 SpA Life Orb Mew Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 84-100 (24.6 - 29.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Adaptability Mew Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 87-103 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

2: While it is true that Adaptability only boosts STAB moves, that's really all it needs to be doing here. In almost every case a Pokemon has a coverage move in it's moveset, it's simply there to just hit something that has a resistance/immunity to your main source of dealing damage, which most of the time is going to be your STAB moves. Looking at the current threats in the metagame, the only things that resist our STAB combination are other Fire-types (Which with the exception of Skeledrige, either aren't super bulky and/or have a 4x weakness that can be exploited), Toxapex (Which is starting to fall off), and Crucibelle (Which is sort of fringle viable to begin with). On pretty much everything else in the metagame, we really don't have to resort to using a coverage move to hit them, our STAB should do just fine.

3: CAP32 with Adaptability is crippled by Knock Off yes, but so is CAP32 with LO+Magic Guard. Going back to Krilowatt, one thing we have to take into account is just how much it relies on Life Orb to have some sort of offensive presence, and the moment it gets Knocked Out, it pretty much loses any ability ability to do meaningful damage and sort of just becomes a damage sponge for the rest of the game (This is why "Unacceptable Lobster" is a meme btw, because that's basically what Krilowatt becomes as soon as it loses Life Orb). In terms of items that aren't Life Orb, I largely agree with Amamama that there is very little reason that CAP32 wouldn't be using Life Orb if it gets Magic Guard as its ability (Although to be fair, I do disagree with him on that being a bad thing or that it limits the project in any way).

 

[chartung17]

Snow Warning's niche is pretty clear and distinct.

1. Would enable Aurora Veil - Grimmsnarl doesn't see nearly the same use on HO as Orthworm, but Grimmsnarl is also extremely strapped for moveslots and lacks complete and utter offensive presence, especially against anything that can block its Parting Shot (Hatterene, Kingambit, etc). CAP32 would be compressing both screens into a single moveslot, leaving two slots for STAB and free slot for some other coverage/pivoting/utility move. CAP32 would be far better equipped to contribute in other ways to the team, and that is on top of the fact it's STAB pressures the most common Defog user in the format, Corviknight.

2. Clearing Weather as a Fire Resist - Aside from the fact we switch into Jumbao easily by default, being able to switch into other Fire-types in the sun circumvents their breaking power. While Iron Moth does often need to swing with coverage, we would force it into a tougher time deciding what to click than just the simplicity of launching a Sun-boosted Overheat at anything, which does a metric fuckload. It would also remove Protosynthesis, which CAP32 could take advantage of against non-Booster Roaring Moon or help its team answer other Protosynthesis mons.

3. Increasing the Defense of Ice-type allies -... which is basically just Baxcalibur, who's benefit from increase Defense is fairly obvious and straightfoward.

So the niche does certainly exist. Snow Warning is not my favorite, not even in my top five, abilities for this project. But it is certainly valid. It provides a tangible and unique identity for CAP32 that is interactive with the metagame and obvious teambuilding synergies to facilitate.

Most of those can be accomplished just as well by Chilly Reception, especially since we resist most sun-boosted moves. I would much rather give up Volt Switch for Chilly Reception than give up a powerful ability for Snow Warning. CAP32's stats are already mediocre, so unless we add something like V-Create to its moveset, I can't see it being viable with Snow Warning.

 

[razorsharp3000]

Thoughts on an accuracy-boosting ability like No Guard?

If we want to use high-power moves, instead of going say the Armor Cannon route, we could instead go for just 100% accurate Fire Blasts. A No Guard Inferno set would be very fun to use and give it an interesting niche.

We could go the more annoying route with stuff like Flame Body/Static/Gooey to punish the use of Knock Off, but I don't think it would be enough to salvage mediocre stats. Could be a secondary ability maybe?

I do like Magic Guard, but while it patches up a lot of holes both in offense and defense, it is too safe/boring. Do we really need another Clef? Maybe we can consider 2 great but not amazing abilities - one more defensive and 1 more offensive. So based on its role it needs to pick which ability it wants.

 

[Brown4Sides]

Thoughts on an accuracy-boosting ability like No Guard?

If we want to use high-power moves, instead of going say the Armor Cannon route, we could instead go for just 100% accurate Fire Blasts. A No Guard Inferno set would be very fun to use and give it an interesting niche.

We could go the more annoying route with stuff like Flame Body/Static/Gooey to punish the use of Knock Off, but I don't think it would be enough to salvage mediocre stats. Could be a secondary ability maybe?

I do like Magic Guard, but while it patches up a lot of holes both in offense and defense, it is too safe/boring. Do we really need another Clef? Maybe we can consider 2 great but not amazing abilities - one more defensive and 1 more offensive. So based on its role it needs to pick which ability it wants.

Regarding the Inferno route of No Guard, CAP 32 does not value burns at all. Every physical attacker ranked above B+ on the viability rankings is weak to our STABs except for Garganacl, Cinderace and Snaelstrom, with the former two being immune to burns, and unless Snaelstrom switches in for the first time in the match it's immune to burns too. I also don't think perfectly accurate Fire Blasts/Overheats is enough to make us stand out either given these moves are pretty accurate to begin with. If we were a Fighting type wanting to use Focus Blast we could talk, but 85/90 accuracy going to 100 won't really make us more usable.

I also think opting for Magic Guard won't necessarily give us another Clefable. Unlike Adaptability (which I am against), which is very one-dimensional and would likely just result in a Fire/Fairy Crawdaunt, Magic Guard is a very versatile ability which can be used very differently from the way Clefable uses it. For example, it patches up our weakness to Stealth Rock, and the only other Stealth Rock weak Magic Guard Pokemon is the irrelevant Sigilyph. It also allows for interactions such as recoiless Flare Blitz, as well as being able to use STAB Eruption without the fear of hazards cutting into its power.

 

[koista12]

I'm gonna add support for Pixilate - It's two major upsides are the ability for us to carve out a niche with unique moves as well as providing a lot of power. On the physical side, we have moves such as Body Slam, Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Facade, Rapid Spin, and more. The special side is much more limited- really only Tri Attack does something that other mons/moves cant replicate. However, this is where the power provided by the ability comes in - Extreme Speed would be a 96 BP priority move, and Pixiliate Boomburst would also be insanely powerful. It is worth noting that without knowing stats, we can't reliably know which powerful moves we can use that interact with this ability.

I would also like to open discussion on the soft-banned Parental Bond. This ability fulfills two purposes as well - providing a universal power boost to all our attacks, as well as its unique interaction with moves that have primary/secondary effects. In this sense, it's like a combination of Sheer Force, Serene Grace, and sometimes Simple. Mega Kangaskhan used this interaction to make Swords Dance a damaging Swords Dance, but we also can consider options like Flame Charge, Trailblaze, Rapid Spin, and Charge Beam (Aqua Step, Psyshield Bash, Esper Wing, and Scale Shot too, although these moves would likely be less valuable due to their signature status or awkward coverage provided). On the special side, moves like Lava Plume and Moonblast gain a 51% chance to proc their secondary effect. One notable downside here would be the double hit proccing Venomicon-P's Stamina boost twice, which admittedly takes away a lot of the appeal from physically focused versions of this concept. I realize stuff like Lava Plume isn't necessarily as valuable this generation with Garganacl in particular not caring at all about its effect, but I think the combined effect of boosting power and utility is something that warrants putting Parental Bond on the table.

 

[Karoshi]

Offensive:
Adaptability is probably my least favorite of all the offensive abilities. Would turn CAP32 way too linear and I fear could make it into a Wall Breaker instead of a pivot.
Pixelate is just cool conceptually. There is not a shortage of amazing normal moves that would see more play if they were another type (ex: E.Speed, Explosion, Boomburst, Last Resort, Fake Out, Hyper Drill). I feel like this in one note, but again would definitely give CAP32 options.

Mixed:
Magic Guard is a amazing ability. Immune to entry hazards, immune to passive damage, lack of Life Orb recoil, lack of damage from recoil moves; it is a great ability for any mon. I understand Amamama's concern of it taking over the stat stage but CAP32's entire goal is "This pokemon will attempt to circumvent average or below average stats to become viable." i.e. to make a viable mon with low BST. We have a hard cap on our allotted stats, so being able to take those stats that we would normally have to put into offenses and actually give it a defensive profile. It's not a bug, but a feature.

Defensive:
Immunity Abilities are boring but effective. Earth Eater is the best of them.
Sturdy I feel has a lot of potential. Even if we dump our defenses to normally unusable levels (ex 5/5/5), we are guaranteed to be able to survive a turn outside of Multihits and Mold Breaker. We have a hard cap on allotted stats, so we could use the extra stats on Speed and Attack and potentially hit harder then if we would with a offensive ability while also being way more reliable.

Utility:
Snow Warning is probably my favorite ability. Aurora Veil gives it utility and gives it a goal upon switch in, Snow turns off Sun and hinders Sun Teams, Gives us an even better matchup against CAP24 and helps gives an alternative play style (Snow Teams) more options. It honestly does alot and does alot to future proof CAP32 into being useful.

 

[mark6870]

The absolute leftfield option is Snow warning.
Why is it good?
It carries two archetypes. Previous Hail teams used a combination of Aurora veil and Hail chip plus Slush Rush for a bulky offense team. This archetype doesn’t exist atm bc there’s no good hail plus veil setter.
Aurora Veil HO was huge at the end of gen of SS but with no viable setter is currently dead.

Having the perfect setter was only half of the equation. Arctozolt was the other half. Without arctozolt or something of equivalent potency, Hail will probably still be bad (unless i'm severely underrating Cetitan.)

 

[faithviolet]

There are abilities that I think could work well for the intended goal but which either would be detrimental to the metagame or to the process . I'm choosing to not discuss them at the moment, and instead simply talk about abilities that I believe are good choices, and those which are unambiguously bad choices. Magic Guard and Pixilate I have not made up my mind on yet.


Earth Eater has been heavily discussed so I'll keep this short. I want to focus attention on how a ground immunity like Earth Eater enhances our role as an offensive pivot. Look at some specific top-tier threats that our fairy-typing allows us to threaten out - Garchomp, Roaring Moon, Dragonite, Great Tusk.

Unfortunately, our fire-typing sabotages these matchups. Assuming we're able to switch in safely, with their strong stats they're likely able to KO us anyways with super-effective Earthquake. Earth Eater nullifies this concern entirely, and lets us add them properly onto the list of Pokemon we check. Getting a 0-damage switch-in to Outrage or a negative-damage switch-in to Earthquake and forcing the opponent out, is exactly how an offensive pivot should function.


In my opinion, Electric Surge is the elephant in the room. Lots of viable low-stat Pokemon are distinguished by providing a field effect like weather that nothing else viable can provide, and we have several Quark Drive pokemon, as well as Caribolt, waiting in the wings to be enabled by something better than Pincurchin. Providing the electric field effect without being electric-type frees up team slots for stronger, more damaging, Electric-type attackers. Furthermore, a damage boost on Volt Switch makes CAP 32 potentially quite threatening to Venomicon, while we have Fire and Fairy stab to punish the best ground types in the metagame, Equilibra and Great Tusk, who can nullify the move's pivoting.


Grassy Surge. Notice in the Earth Eater section where it's Earthquake in particular that's useful to not be knocked out by? This ability is something of a middle ground between ground immunity and Electric Surge, removing a ground weakness while providing damage support for grass-types on the team, on top of giving us passive healing to counteract our lack of amazing bulk. Our typing means we aren't harmed by the opponent using the grass-move. While not the strongest, Grassy Surge is synergistic with our typing, and I believe it would create the most interesting future steps in the process.


Steam Engine. Fire-type attacks are extremely valuable in the current metagame, including Fire Lash (Astrolotl), Torch Song (Skeledirge), Overheat (Pyroak), Tera Blast (Jumbao), Fiery Dance(Volcarona). Steam Engine is a way for a pivot to exploit their use, and allows us to have low speed while still outspeeding these threats, many of whom set up and so need to be threatened out.


Rocky Payload. Rock-type STAB bonus will help CAP 32 by massively adding to the Pokemon it can threaten out with super-effective moves, making it really hard to switch in to. We'd have to avoid the Electivire problem but if we do this intentionally, it should be possible to make CAP 32 really threatening.

Less fitting choices:

• Misty Surge - we already have an immunity to dragon, and an inability to status hurts us as much as our opponent
• Sturdy - it's not strong, and we are a pivot who can't afford to run Leftovers
• Snow Warning - we don't want to cancel sun because it boosts our Fire STAB, we don't benefit from Snow, and the only Pokemon who really benefits from Snow is Baxcalibur. No synergy here.
• Speed Boost - we're a pivot, not a sweeper. Speed Boost heavily incentivizes staying in to build up those speed boosts.
• Psychic Surge - the damage boost is somewhat helpful, but its main utility is in preventing fast Pokemon from being outsped and KOd by priority. Since the concept requires us to not have top-tier speed, we've decided on being a pivot, and our type resists several priority moves already, we hardly benefit from this priority ban at all.
• Storm Drain - it's nice to have, but unlike for ground, most Pokemon with water-type attacks are not ones which we really benefit from switching in on. Strong but without synergy.
• Multiscale - again, best used on a sweeper, not a pivot. If we can't take advantage of the free turn provided by multiscale to the level that set-up moves allow, it's not a very valuable ability.

 

[Brambane]

Having the perfect setter was only half of the equation. Arctozolt was the other half. Without arctozolt or something of equivalent potency, Hail will probably still be bad (unless i'm severely underrating Cetitan.)

I promise I am not shilling for Snow Warning, but this statement isn't true. Arctozolt is a strong hail Pokemon for sure, but the defining hail team in CAP and arguably one of the most defining and iconic Gen 8 teams post-Pyroak/Saharaja was D2's Aurora Veil HO. It remains a sample team for SS CAP and has seen substantial tournament play and adaptation.

SV CAP has multiple set-up sweepers that appreciate screens when you can afford to fit them; Caribolt, Iron Valiant, and Roaring Moon immediately come to mind.

 

[skippergamez]

I’ve been of the firm belief that Magic Guard and Earth Eater are our best options for CAP32.

Magic Guard allows us to not run boots at all, and utilize possibly Life Orb. Look at how amazing Kril is as an offensive pivot. However, I doubt that CAP32 will be overshadowed by Kril as it covers Steel- and Dragon-types that Kril semi-struggles with. Earth Eater gives it a second immunity to its most common and prevalent weakness, allowing it to switch into Ground-types, most of which are weak to our STABs.

Anyway, comment time

SNOW WARNING IS MEGA EW

Sure, Aurora Veil is good, but slap chilly reception + stall on this thing and let it support a good veil setter. Snow Warning on its own is super sad considering our defining moves doesn’t support it.

STUFF THAT SHOULDN’T BE THE PRIMARY ABILITY BUT STILL FINE

Steam Engine: Cool, but super niche

Grassy Surge: Earth Eater is just better

Speed Boost: This would end up defining too much of the process at a level that’s healthy.

Parental Bond: see Speed Boost

Multiscale: Isn’t good on a pivot

Sturdy: See above



Lastly, I’ll throw my sprinkle of support towards: Adaptability (the ideal offensive ability), Water Absorb/Storm Drain, No Guard (not cause of Inferno but Fire Blast), and maybe Pixilate

 

[Explosion Badger]

Here are the options that I like:
Magic Guard: This is a very simple ability to understand the applications of. through ignoring residual damage, particularly to stealth rocks, CAP 32's defensive profile becomes far more impressive than its stats would let on, and its ability to switch in constantly makes its job as a pivot much easier. This ability allows us the most options when it comes to item choice and playstyle, and though free Life Orb boosts are a welcome option for boosting our damage, I see this ability as an easy way to give 32 options in how it can be run.

Adaptability: This is one of the biggest offensive tools at our disposal, and I can definitely see why people like it. having the ability to spam absurdly strong Fire and Fairy coverage without worrying about somehow losing that power is an incredible trait, and definitely something worth considering for powering up this mon. The one downside I have with this ability is that it will most likely mean we're not using coverage, meaning other fire types in the tier can use us for easy switch ins, but that's not necessarily a dealbreaker imo.

Sheer Force: While I know people are going to see this and automatically assume it's paired with life orb, I want to post the idea of running it both with and without the item. While running both at once gives us an absurd power boost, it also leaves us vulnerable to hazards, stealth rocks in particular, which, with our average bulk, will most likely give a tradeoff to that power in the form of very little longevity. without life orb, however, we can run an item such as HDB that boosts our longevity, while still keeping a boost to our power, one that's similar to life orbs power on its own in fact. this means that even in the face of knock off, we can still keep that power and use boosted coverage options against our switch ins.

Prankster: I see this ability as a way to allow 32 more freedom in its stats while still achieving its role as an offensive pivot. the ability to go first when using status moves means that 32 can use pivoting moves such as chilling reception and parting shot without having to worry about being outsped, as well as spread status or hazards, or heal with ease, thanks to the boosted priority. because of that, we can invest more into 32's bulk and less into 32's speed if we so wish.

 

[ryangregory78]

Just wanted to take the time (now that I finally have some) to talk about some abilities that I like for this project.

First of all, I don't think they're any doubt that Levitate or Earth Eater are incredible for CAP32. Fire/Fairy is, to no one's surprise, a phenomenal offensive and defensive combination, and notably smashes through all of the tier's bulky Grounds, which is an amazing feat to boast considering how ubiquitous the likes of Libra and Tusk are. The only problem with that is that you're also weak to Ground, so one stray Earthquake and your ass is dead. Levitate and Earth Eater fix this, allowing you to completely shut down the Grounds that would otherwise run you over and destroy them. While these two abilities are incredibly similar in what they provide for CAP32, there are some subtle differences between them that are worth considering, with Levitate nullifying Spikes damage even w/o Boots and Earth Eater provides you with extra recovery. Personally, I think that the recovery of Earth Eater is more impactful here because it allows you to better offset hazard damage in the event that you get Knocked Off, in addition to letting you stay healthy throughout a battle.

Regenerator is another no-brainer that, while not exactly the most daring choice in the world, still brings a lot to this project. As I mentioned earlier, one thing that I think our typing should help alleviate is the fact that we are a Fairy-type that's scared to death of Knock Off, which kinda sucks a lot. Regenerator doesn't magically cure us of our Rocks weakness by any means, but it allows us to mitigate the damage should we be forced to rake it. Torn-T is a prime example of this, being very viable and boasting incredible longevity with Regen in spite on a Rocks weakness. Now, of course, Spikes will still be an issue that we can't get around, but overall, having Regen serves to soften the blow of taking hazard damage in the event that we get Knocked. All in all, it's generally just a great ability for a pivot to have, letting us stay healthy throughout a game (something our competition can do as easily) and it's especially helpful in letting CAP32 function even if it gets Knocked.

Now Magic Guard is a tricky one. One on hand, this is absolutely the strongest option we have, hands down. Magic Guard provides us with immunity to hazards, free Life Orb boosts, an immunity to Toxic, and even an immunity to Salt Cure in one slot, completely eliminating some of CAP32's most glaring flaws and giving us a ton more freedom in the stat stage, given we no longer have to worry about our offenses. It's for these reasons that I absolutely support giving CAP32 Magic Guard, given just how much the ability does for it. However, that's not to say that it's without its faults. For one, going with Magic Guard would all but padlock us into orienting this CAP around Life Orb, given it has no business running any other item, meaning that anything we do regarding stats and moves would have to be based around that. Now normally I wouldn't mind this, but what really stings about this is that it means that we're not just hindered, but completely shut down by Knock Off. Of course, this could very well mean nothing and CAP32 could flourish just off the sheer power of MGLO and its type combo (I mean it's worked pretty well for Krilowatt this gen), but it's still something worth considering.

At this point, I was wondering if there was any way that we could circumvent our Knock weakness. Sure, it's not the end of the world, but being that we're not just a Fairy, but a Fairy that's already limited by average stats. How are we gonna compete with our competition if we can't even stand up to Knock Off? Enter Sticky Hold. Admittedly, this is a bit crazy and definitely a bit weak, but I think strikes a nice balance between keeping the benefits of Magic Guard and removing some of its biggest downsides. Sticky Hold means that our Boots aren'r getting Knocked no matter what the opponent does, giving us outstanding longevity especially in conjunction with recovery/draining moves. This lets us switch into Rocks and Spikes as we wish and actually switch comfortably into Pokemon like Meow and most Argh. Again, this ability is pretty weak, putting a really big onus on stats to back it up and probably mandating Armor Cannon to compensate, but I think that Sticky Hold still has a ton of potential that could really benefit CAP32 in practice.

Stakeout is a really cool one. Not only is Stakeout criminally underexplored, with only early-route goobers and Mabosstiff getting access to it, it should go without saying that it's also incredibly powerful. Doubling the damage dealt to switch-ins is absolutely devastating, and lends itself perfectly to a pivot. If our job as a pivot is to force something out and gain momentum from the switch-in, no ability capitalizes on switches better than Stakeout. This ability pairs especially well with Volt Switch, letting it force out Argh and Libra and rip a gaping hole into Venom and Snael on the switch, all the while bring in another offensive teammate to deal massive damage. Overall, I think this works great; it helps us compensate foe mid stats with explosive power, and lets us do our job as a pivot even better.

Mold Breaker goes all in on Parting Shot and Strength Sap, but it's still pretty good nonetheless. While Mold Breaker doesn't exactly have the widest reach of applications, being able to spam status moves like Parting Shot and Strength Sap unperturbed by Magic Bounce and Good as Gold works wonders for allowing CAP32 to soften up whatever switches into it. Mold Breaker also lets us go physical with Pyro Ball since we can now break through Bulletproof Libra reliably, which lets us stand out from Cinderace especially well. It's also pretty nice for not proccing Flash Fire which, while maybe not as important now, will have huge implications whenever HOME comes around with Heatran.

Lastly, I wanna bring Sheer Force to the table. The potential for Sheer Force on this 'mon should be obvious; any STAB move a Fire/Fairy can use is boosted by Sheer Force, and readily accessible Sheer Force-boosted coverage means we have next to no switch-ins. Nidoking is a prime example of what SF is capable of. Taking from the Nidoking example, SF gives us tons of freedom in the stat stage, meaning that we won't have to worry about our offenses much at all on account of the sheer power of Sheer Force. Now Sheer Force might not seem like a great move for a pivot, much less a Rocks-weak pivot, but no other ability in the game can force out so many Pokemon as Sheer Force. Threatening massive damage against almost everything in the game and abusing switches with Volt Switch or Parting Shot would make us an incredible pivot that not only serves as a horrifying wallbreaker, but a 'mon that can force its offensive teammates onto the field and let them apply continuous pressure that can be very hard to stop.

So yeah, those are some abilities that I like for this this. With all that said, I will be submitting Magic Guard, Earth Eater, Sticky Hold, and Stakeout.

 

[Etharia]

Some abilities I think would be good.
Earth Eater: This one is obvious. Multiple people in this thread have discussed this ability and explained why it'd be good much better than I can. Being able to switch in on a type you're normally weak to and heal is simply a winning combination.
Regenerator: Every pivot's dream. This ability is a godsend for a mon that wants to switch in and out frequently, and is especially useful given this mon's weakness to stealth rocks.
Magic Guard: Similarly useful for pivots, this one helps with hazards while also providing more offensive power in the form of the free life orb, not to mention toxic immunity.
Mold Breaker: Allowing its utility moves to ignore abilities is useful, especially given the mons that are currently popular in the metagame.
These are all abilities that have been thrown around a lot and if any one of them is chosen I'd be happy, but there's one more ability I'd like to suggest:
Regardless of how things turn out, it's likely that utility moves are going to play a large part in this mon's viability. As such, Aroma Veil is a possible option, being able to block the Taunts and Encores that could normally slow it down and force it to hard-switch.
Tl;DR supporting Earth Eater, Regnerator, Magic Guard, and Mold Breaker, as well as throwing Aroma Veil into the ring.