CAP 3D Modeling Project

Quanyails

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Ah, those! I always pictured them as being inset rather than suspended in the crystal, given the difference in shading on the diamonds and the lines around them. It is artistic license, though, given that the concept art lacks the diamonds at all.

I'd also love to see if you have a WIP. :D
 
The thing I was most concerned about that I brought it up was in most the art of Syclant including the official sprites currently used there are these little smaller crystals inside the main crystals that kind of look like eyes on peacock feathers.

Most the links for additional art on the front page are broken so here's a couple of what was linked there:

And I don't think just texturing them on would work very well. I'm probably inserting a tiny separate model for them to be seen through the translucence slightly...layering two seperate renders might be necessary for them to show well without making the crystals too transparent.
I'm with Quany I thought too the balls are stuck in from the outside XD
But yeah if you want, we can certainly do it like the blobs in Mollux!

Here's some more drawings from CyzirVisheen
As a tip I'd probably not use Cartoons!'s one (the first pic you posted) as primary reference, just because he's not the original designer of the mon.
 

DJTHED

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Necturna Wireframe WIP


I'm using a modeling technique I recently learned using Bezier Curves, which helps with a model like this. It keeps it looking nice and clean, and also helps with the slight asymmetry with the torso. Still working out the dress shape before I start adding detail to that. The hard part that I still have to start doing is to add in Necturna's "Hair".

OBJ File Download
 

DJTHED

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Necturna Wireframe WIP


Pretty much ready for QC now. I feel like I can still improve the "hair" quite a bit, though. It was tough to make look as good as it is right now too, but I may need some assistance pointing me in the right direction on how to improve it more. Other than that, I am very happy with how this model turned out.

EDIT:
Touched the hair up a bit.



OBJ File Download
 
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I'm using a modeling technique I recently learned using Bezier Curves
YES YES YESSS!!!! Good to see you're trying new things at last, not just sticking to the old habits omg. Compared to how you did Kitsunoh and Crucibelle, treating the wireframe as an art (not as a technical procedure) made a big difference! I think your work just got so much better :'D

Anyway here's some critique. I think the hair mesh should be separated from the head (1) so it's more flexible. Like if say when rendering and we find out the hair is too small or cluttery we can try scaling it up, but it'll be harder to do if it's stuck onto the head. I guess that's up to you though not a big deal I think. Same with the shirt and sleeves (2) they're probably better as separate meshes. EDIT- nevermind derp that's fine XD Anyway the hair is not spikes sticking out from the sides -- they should be strands coming off the midline of the head. (3) Yup, take a closer look at the supporting art and you'll see! The anatomy on the neck to the chest is terrible, but I'll let you off since it's hidden under the shirt >_> I think the part where the "branch" meets the "belt" looks a bit premature right now (4), maybe add some leaves to cover up like this pic? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/Yilx/Nana4.jpg I notice the arms are way too thin on the side view (5) especially the hands. Those hands are venus flytraps so I imagine the side view is gonna look like the front of a crocodile's mouth or something (though Yilx can correct me if I'm wrong :P) I think it needs to be a lot wider than that (6) and be able to open. The mouth should go all the way round to the back as well (7), not just showing up at the front....maybe think of them like pincers if that helps! I guess look at something like Scizor for reference.

On a side note, I think it'll be better if you cut a line through the front of the dress. (8) I know the official drawing has it closed off with teeth but I reckon having it open will allow better swaying animation for the dress. Some of the supporting art drawings shows how the dress can sometimes "flare out" from the front, I think it looks more interesting like that. Just a thought anyway :P

 
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Just dropping by to say I'm loving the new method, and I think it works great for Necturna. I can't wait to see the model progress so I can actually help in the stages I know about :P

I also second the opening at the dress idea. Necturna is statwise good at physical attacks, so biting things with the giant dress-mouth of doomsday seems like something that would happen.
 

DJTHED

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Anyway the hair is not spikes sticking out from the sides -- they should be strands coming off the midline of the head. (3) Yup, take a closer look at the supporting art and you'll see!
Just to clarify with #3... Do you want there to be bald spots with the strands on the back of the head? I know they're not supposed to be spikes like the other four on her head, but I tried using strands before for the backside and I couldn't get it to look right because of the bald spots or because of an oddly shaped strand. The hair here is pretty tricky... especially since there's not many high quality illustrations of the back of her head in the first place to understand how it's all laid out.

The mouth should go all the way round to the back as well (7), not just showing up at the front....maybe think of them like pincers if that helps! I guess look at something like Scizor for reference.
Yilx Can you confirm or deny this? I don't think I've seen anything showing the back of Necturna's hand other than the current BW backsprite (which doesn't have the mouth on the backside), as well as the other Necturna backsprite submissions (and some of them did have it, and some of them didn't). It's a bit unclear and I want to make sure it's right.
 
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Just to clarify with #3... Do you want there to be bald spots with the strands on the back of the head? I know they're not supposed to be spikes like the other four on her head, but I tried using strands before for the backside and I couldn't get it to look right because of the bald spots or because of an oddly shaped strand. The hair here is pretty tricky... especially since there's not many high quality illustrations of the back of her head in the first place to understand how it's all laid out.
On second thought I think you're right there should be bald spots. XD And there's definitely a few spikes on the back hair so what you have is okay, just that I think the "spike" at the bottom should be longer and more "hair like" if that makes sense. :|

Yilx Can you confirm or deny this? I don't think I've seen anything showing the back of Necturna's hand other than the current BW backsprite (which doesn't have the mouth on the backside), as well as the other Necturna backsprite submissions (and some of them did have it, and some of them didn't). It's a bit unclear and I want to make sure it's right.
Umm well,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/Yilx/nana1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/Yilx/nana2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/Yilx/nana5.jpg
^ I don't think it can open like that with your set up.
Also sprites are pretty moot cuz the spriters have artistic freedom too. Don't let them do the judgement for you, try doing that yourself! You're the artist not them =3=
 

Quanyails

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Necturna is looking awesome. Wonderful job, DJTHED. I'll need to look up how to use Bezier curves in modeling if I get a chance. :D I agree that spriters are given artistic license and permission to deviate from the original design. Same goes, though, for modelers.

If I may ask, is Mollux still in limbo? >_<
 

HeaLnDeaL

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I just want to say that, as QxC4eva pointed out, there's already an existing history of art where Necturna can open it's mouth hands. If for some reason it is better/necessary for the model not to have this included, then I can understand that. But from my personal perspective, it just seems like part of the design itself and I'd like to see it included (which isn't saying that it *has* to be, but to me it would make sense).
 

DJTHED

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I just want to say that, as QxC4eva pointed out, there's already an existing history of art where Necturna can open it's mouth hands. If for some reason it is better/necessary for the model not to have this included, then I can understand that. But from my personal perspective, it just seems like part of the design itself and I'd like to see it included (which isn't saying that it *has* to be, but to me it would make sense).
It's definitely possible, I just couldn't find anything from Yilx's work that gave me an answer. I guess I just don't know where to look.

I should have a new WIP up soon.
 
It's definitely possible, I just couldn't find anything from Yilx's work that gave me an answer. I guess I just don't know where to look.
Oh it's not that hard to find the final sub :P Just google for "cap 13 art poll 1" and look for Yilx's design in the OP. The up arrow next to FAT YILX SAID will take you there!

Anyway DJ, the "looks" of a design isn't the only thing to consider, there's also how it can possibly move. Movement is a big reason why many 2D designs get tweaked a bit when put to 3D. In a case like this probably won't help to use sprites for reference, cuz it's actually a 3D problem you should be able to solve yourself. Like for Necturna's design, it doesn't matter if the hand mouth goes to the back or not. What actually matters is if it can open or not. Notice the difference? That should be the question to ask the artist, because even if they say there's nothing at the back, I'd still be inclined to put it there so it makes sense in 3D. Remember 3D design =/= 2D design. We're allowed to deviate / make things up as long as there's a good reason for it. :)

I think it comes back to this problem you're very dependent on model sheets. The stuff I drew looks good in your model, but the stuff I didn't draw (back view, side view of the arm, the body under the shirt) don't look quite as good. Clearly you're very good at tracing the model sheets, but wireframing is more than just that! D: ~if only it were that easy~~ Idk, maybe take some time first to fully understand what you're trying to make I reckon.
but that's coming from someone who spent months trying to understand Tomohawk x_x


EDIT- yeah poor Mollux :(
 
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Quanyails

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Hey, exploudit! Don't worry about making any reservations until after you've gotten a WIP up. :) I'd love it if you took a stab at the model regardless.

That being said, there are no model sheets for Volkraken, and I'm not sure what Golurkyourself thinks about making them. :S
 

Quanyails

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I see, thanks a lot :) are there any other CAP with model sheets that are not reserved atm??
Colossoil has a model sheet here, and Spoiled Rotten never got around to working on it. I think all of the other CAPs with model sheets are in some stage of completion/limbo. I suppose if you think you can work on a model to completion those other CAPs may be options. See the spreadsheet for details. :)
 
x_x The weird perspective on Volk's art is giving me a headache and I'm not too happy with this, might tidy it up later. Might be more reliable if Golurkyourself draws one too :P



exploudit - I think the back view is a bit of a wildcard cuz I don't think anyone has seen his back yet :P So I blanked it for now.
Also some tips in case it helps!
  • Going by the smoothness of the design, I think the head and tentacles should be a single mesh. Everything else like the spikes and ears can be separate.
  • It'll be easier to model the tentacles and whiskers straight (not curled)
  • I notice the webbing around the head doesn't follow a circular shape - it seems a bit wide on the side, and I think there's more padding at the back comapared to front.
  • The tentacle suckers look like something to leave for the textures.
  • For the grey spikes under the tentacles, I think the front ones have 3, then the row behind has 4, and after that 2, but the back I'm not sure. So up to you :)
They're not rules or anything it's just what I think. Feel free to do what works for you :D

(and Golurkyourself can clarify if he wants :P)
 
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Okay good luck with that!

Anyway PS teambuilder is still using the older gen CAP sprites so I mucked around and got this.



Didn't do Krilowatt, Aurumoth, Cawm, Plasmanta or Navi cuz I wasn't the one who did the rendering :P (it's up to the other modelers if they want) but here's what I did....
  • render frame 1 at double res
  • scale down to 50% with bicubic interpolation
  • sharpen the image (pixel radius should be about 0.5 to 1)
  • crop to 120x120 px
  • add a linear feathering (6px) if any part gets cut off, like Tomohawk
  • save as 32bit transparent PNG


There's very small changes to the camera and lights too but oh well didn't look into that yet :P
 
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I'm gonna animate Mollux blobs in 2D first then trace it in 3D later, so it's easier to plan out the looping and stuff.
Not liking it so far I dunno what's wrong so any advice will be nice ;o;
 
I'm gonna animate Mollux blobs in 2D first then trace it in 3D later, so it's easier to plan out the looping and stuff.
Not liking it so far I dunno what's wrong so any advice will be nice ;o;
My first impression is that it feels weird because it creates the impression of the lava tracing a circular, anti-clockwise path, which feels too ordered and not organic enough. The curvature of all the blob paths is basically consistent; they're changing in direction, sure, but their curvature is pretty much fixed. Could you try having at least one of the major blobs trace an 'S' path, rather than being so circular?
 
Tsaeb XIII - thanks for your suggestions I curved up the blobs path a bit. :) About the anticlockwise thing, it's more of the problem I didn't draw the "static" blobs at the top and bottom of the jar (cuz the 3D model has them already) so I guess it looked like it was circling around :P But yeah. Not much I can do given the animation has to loop in like 2 seconds there's hardly room to vary the speed / emission rates to get it more organic, without it not looping properly >.>

How's this? :\
 
Tsaeb XIII - thanks for your suggestions I curved up the blobs path a bit. :) About the anticlockwise thing, it's more of the problem I didn't draw the "static" blobs at the top and bottom of the jar (cuz the 3D model has them already) so I guess it looked like it was circling around :P But yeah. Not much I can do given the animation has to loop in like 2 seconds there's hardly room to vary the speed / emission rates to get it more organic, without it not looping properly >.>

How's this? :\
The fact that it was anticlockwise wasn't inherently the issue; the problem is that the circular pattern pulls the eye towards the white space in the middle rather than focusing on the blobs themselves. What you've got now is definitely better, although it's still a tad too circular. Could you play with the possibility of a splitting/merging blob that traces a Y shape pattern through the middle? It needs some component that goes against the dominant curve (in this case something that moves clockwise), so having a Y shape forces one of the forks to push against the existing flow.

EDIT: Or even have the two major blobs trace the standard mathematical variable 'x' pattern, i.e. two crescents back to back, through the centre, giving you one that tracks a clockwise path and one that tracks an anticlockwise path.
 

Bughouse

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I don't know what the longest loop for an animation is in the games (are they all really 2 seconds?), but this would be a good case for using a longer loop. Lava lamps were literally used for generating random numbers, so having such a short loop just looks unnatural.
 

Quite Quiet

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I don't know what the longest loop for an animation is in the games (are they all really 2 seconds?), but this would be a good case for using a longer loop. Lava lamps were literally used for generating random numbers, so having such a short loop just looks unnatural.
Mega Steelix is the longest looped animation (I haven't looked at gen 7 animations yet) with about 240 individual frames (8 seconds at 30fps). Most loops clock in at between 50-80 frames, but it's not uncommon for them to go over 100 frames (Spritzee is 121 frames for example). Being under 2 second long is uncommon and is more often than not only seen in pre-evolutions of baby pokemon. Fully evolved Pokemon are basically never 2 seconds long before looping again, and when that happen the animation is very basic (Breloom).

I would not take 2 seconds as an absolute rule, and use a longer cycle if the animation will benefit from it.
 

Birkal

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Tsaeb XIII QxC4eva

Almost all lava lamps rise from the middle, whether in globular form or in a stream. This video demonstrates the latter in a time lapse. While I think Mollux is in the camp of the former (it has globs), the bubbles should still, for the most part, rise out of the middle. This can often create a circular motion, much like both of the animations QxC posted. The "blobs" tend to rise out of the center because that's where the heating bulb is, which heats the liquid, making it less dense, and causes it to rise. It depends on the make of the lava lamp to determine how it falls; if the glass siding is heating up, they will often fall back down the center and collide. If only the bottom is heated, then they could really fall from anywhere, but that will likely be on the coolest side of the lava lamp.

tl;dr, In lava lamps, most globs rise from the middle, and can fall from anywhere. Mollux is not most lava lamps, so it can probably justify the raising and lowering of globs however it sees fit.
 
I don't know what the longest loop for an animation is in the games (are they all really 2 seconds?), but this would be a good case for using a longer loop. Lava lamps were literally used for generating random numbers, so having such a short loop just looks unnatural.
I would not take 2 seconds as an absolute rule, and use a longer cycle if the animation will benefit from it.
It's mostly to keep the file size down so I don't get in trouble with Layell or the PS staff. My Mollux shader has this animated pattern which isn't file size friendly (compared to the other CAPs not named Stratagem :P) so there's gonna be some trade off with color palette, frame count and the file size. If turns out there's enough room for it later I'll make the loop longer :)

The fact that it was anticlockwise wasn't inherently the issue; the problem is that the circular pattern pulls the eye towards the white space in the middle rather than focusing on the blobs themselves.
oooh oh I see it now :D Also made the blobs trace an x like you suggested, I *think* it looks better but can't really tell anymore.. (everything is starting to look the same for me x_x)

tl;dr, In lava lamps, most globs rise from the middle, and can fall from anywhere. Mollux is not most lava lamps, so it can probably justify the raising and lowering of globs however it sees fit.
That's a handy tip TY :) I made the blobs rise a bit closer to the middle but not exact, for stylistic reasons.



Don't wana do too many edits for this, I might start tracing it in 3D and do the fixes there instead. Comments are still appreciated though~ *claims animation for Mollux*
 
It's mostly to keep the file size down so I don't get in trouble with Layell or the PS staff. My Mollux shader has this animated pattern which isn't file size friendly (compared to the other CAPs not named Stratagem :P) so there's gonna be some trade off with color palette, frame count and the file size. If turns out there's enough room for it later I'll make the loop longer :)


oooh oh I see it now :D Also made the blobs trace an x like you suggested, I *think* it looks better but can't really tell anymore.. (everything is starting to look the same for me x_x)


That's a handy tip TY :) I made the blobs rise a bit closer to the middle but not exact, for stylistic reasons.



Don't wana do too many edits for this, I might start tracing it in 3D and do the fixes there instead. Comments are still appreciated though~ *claims animation for Mollux*
At least in my opinion, that's a whole lot better. No other suggestions from me :)
 

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