CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 11.5 and Complete Movepool Submissions

Should we allow the new move?

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
@ X Presumptuous:
You forget that you can Heart Scale the moves at anytime. How do you think Breloom with Spore works?
 
Hyra said:
@ X Presumptuous:
You forget that you can Heart Scale the moves at anytime. How do you think Breloom with Spore works?
Click to expand...

Didn't know it worked that way. I thought you had to actually go through the whole "X is trying to learn Y!" thing to be able to re-learn a move. Thanks for cluing me in. I learned something new today. (:
 
Hyra said:
@ X Presumptuous:
You forget that you can Heart Scale the moves at anytime. How do you think Breloom with Spore works?
Click to expand...

X_Presumptuous said:
Didn't know it worked that way. I thought you had to actually go through the whole "X is trying to learn Y!" thing to be able to re-learn a move. Thanks for cluing me in. I learned something new today. (:
Click to expand...

Breloom can't get Spore from the Move Relearner (Heart Scales). Spore is not in Breloom's learnset. You have to level Shroomish all the way up to level 45 to get it. I've done it enough ingame to know. It's a huge pain in the butt. I haven't done it in D/P, but I don't think anything changed since ADV.
 
DougJustDoug said:
Breloom can't get Spore from the Move Relearner (Heart Scales). Spore is not in Breloom's learnset. You have to level Shroomish all the way up to level 45 to get it. I've done it enough ingame to know. It's a huge pain in the butt. I haven't done it in D/P, but I don't think anything changed since ADV.
Click to expand...

I think he may have been referring to Breloom having Spore but still retaining its own level-up moves from before level 45, such as Mach Punch. I'm keeping my list the same just in case he wasn't, though.
 
Well, tennis, it depends what you mean by competitive. Most of the moves that on other Pokemon would be considered competitive (Fire Punch, Ice Punch), won't be on DLL sheerly because of his movepool. He'll have 4MS rela bad, so it doesn't really matter. He won't use half the stuff we give him, but it is always nice to have them.
 
X_Presumptuous said:
I think he may have been referring to Breloom having Spore but still retaining its own level-up moves from before level 45, such as Mach Punch. I'm keeping my list the same just in case he wasn't, though.
Click to expand...

Got it. You're right. I misinterpreted Hyra's response. And yes, Breloom can re-learn his entire learnset (via Heart Scales) at any time. In fact, any decent Breloom learns most of it's moves that way because of the difficulty in learning Spore through pre-evo level-up. Which is exactly what Hyra was saying; sorry for me being dense...
 
Pre-evo Level-up List:
Code: 
1. [B]Gust[/B]
1. Leer
5. Acid
13.Rapid Spin
19. [B]Whirlwind[/B]
23. Poison Jab
27. Encore
32. [B]Tailwind[/B]
38. Blindingmire

I know this has 3 extra pre evo moves, but if its such an issue whirlwind can always be taken off and i can give DDL the roar TM.

Level-up List:

Code: 
1. Mud Slap
1. Leer
5. Acid
9. Dig
14. Rapid Spin
20. Poison Jab
24. Mud Bomb
29  Encore
32. Force Palm
36. Helping Hand
40. Block
45  Earth Power
52. Gravity
58. BlindingMire/Acid Wash/Acid Blind

Early moves are the standard low power moves added to establish the typing of the pokemon.
Dig seemed like a signature move to me and rapid spin seems like a natural progression from dig.

The middle section is about progression of how it uses its hands, as it matures it finds new ways to use them.

The end three are the signatures

If X-Acts move somehow loses the poll i will replace it with Gunk shot from the egg moves.

Egg Moves

Code: 
Arm Thrust
Fake Out
Pursuit
Disable
Follow Me
Me First
Toxic Spikes
Spikes
Wish
Counter
Gunkshot

Both variations of Spikes and Wish are the ones i consider 100% viable

TM List

Code: 
TM01 - Focus Punch
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day 
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance 
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM34 - Shock Wave
TM36-  Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract 
TM46 - Thief
TM48 - Skill Swap
TM49 - Snatch
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate 
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb

Stealth Rock - Stealth rock- Their is already enough bitching about this move and a lot of talk about it centralizing the game. Whether or not this is the case few things get spikes and toxic spikes this shouldn't be taken for granted and passed over just for another stealth rock abuser.

Roar- I have Whirlwind from the pre-evo instead.

Energy Ball- Its decent at best this pokemon will already have 4 move syndrome,it would fit on the inevitable gimmick choice specs set and is really only threatening Swampert.


Utlity moves

Follow Me,Spikes,Toxic Spikes,Disable,Gravity,Block,Encore,Helping Hand,Rapid Spin,Whirlwind,Reflect,Safeguard,Light Screen,Trick room,Wish=15
 
ParadOxymoron said:
Point taken. Although I'd always imagined it to be a Bug / Flying type or even a Poison / Flying type, not a Bug / Poison type.

Like, a spider with an abdomen so big it's like a balloon, with 8 little hands (or just arms with no hands) floating down. No wings.
Click to expand...

If it doesn't have wings - which is what I remembered from the previous discussion, Air Slash doesn't make sense anymore. Every single Pokemon that gets it has wings aside from Smeargle. Then again the discussion in the previous topics about a pre-vo centered around Tailwind entirely, I wish someone had brought up Air Slash in the last one instead of debate ending up here.

The fact that Daddy Longlegs *definately* doesn't have wings makes me more opposed to Air Slash.
 
Hyra said:
So anything in the concept that isn't already used competitively doesn't count? So, Tail Wind and Gravity are "not competitive" (Trick Room has some sets already).

Also, a place to work on this pre-evo would be nice, even though all it needs is the ability to use Whirlwind and Tailwind (Poison/Flying maybe?).
Click to expand...
Well chances are Gravity will end up being competitive on this Pokemon. It would be a major oversight to write an analysis without a Gravity set.
On the note of the analysis applications will open after the movepool poll.

tennisace0227 said:
Because most Bugs fly. Also, most things don't lose wings when they evolve, they gain them. You almost never see anything lose the flying type upon evolution. Also, we should wait for the evo poll before locking ourselves into prevo moves.
Click to expand...
Level up w/ Gravity evolution anybody?

Also my post seems to have been a tad mis-interpreted. The only reason I sugested paying attention to the pre-evo is to make Pre-evo moves work. You seem to think it should work the other way around.
 
hinode said:
If it doesn't have wings - which is what I remembered from the previous discussion, Air Slash doesn't make sense anymore. Every single Pokemon that gets it has wings aside from Smeargle. Then again the discussion in the previous topics about a pre-vo centered around Tailwind entirely, I wish someone had brought up Air Slash in the last one instead of debate ending up here.

The fact that Daddy Longlegs *definately* doesn't have wings makes me more opposed to Air Slash.
Click to expand...
No, I know. I'm opposed to it, too. You're right, it's fanboyish, and I shouldn't have said anything. That's what I meant by "Point taken."
 
I really like the idea of this guy having a Poison / Flying Pre-evo, allowing it to get Tailwind and possibly Whirlwind, and then like Sunday just mentioned, evolve by leveling up with Gravity, like how Aipom evolves with Double Hit. That would allow it to get Tailwind and it would work flavorwise - it starts out as one of those floating spider babies, then when it grows up it becomes a burrowing spider, losing it's flying typing and picking up a ground typing. So yeah, levelling up with Gravity for evolution sounds like a really great idea.
 
Mmm, came off harsher than I intended with that post. I didn't mean to single you out, just to point out that Tailwind and Air Slash shouldn't be lumped together for flavor purposes. A small floaty spider that glides on wind currents would be a good fit for learning Tailwind, but lacks the wings to use Air Slash.

As for the Gravity evo idea, I love it - it works well flavorwise, explains how it goes from a flying type to a ground type, and emphasizes Gravity as a signature move for the fully evolved spider.
 
hinode said:
As for the Gravity evo idea, I love it - it works well flavorwise, explains how it goes from a flying type to a ground type, and emphasizes Gravity as a signature move for the fully evolved spider.
Click to expand...
Okay, edited my movepool so it doesn't say this thing evolves at level 51 (since everyone would notice that and then not vote for me).
 
Isn't that the way I wrote my second prototype movepool? In fact, the pre-evo learns Tailwind at about the same time that the evo learns Gravity.
 
It's my first time, and I try to follow X-Act's guidelines as far as possible. -_-; I tried. I really did.

Pre-evo Level-Up List:
Code: 
1. Pound
1. String Shot
5. Acid
9. Helping Hand
13. Gust
17. Encore
20. Icy Wind
23. Toxic Spikes
28. Sludge Bomb
30. Tailwind
35. Gravity
39. Toxic
45. Protect
50. Spider Web
Going with the idea of a Poison/Flying pre-evo that evolves with Gravity. Ballooning spider FTW. I also gave the pre-evo and DLL diverging moves; Gust and Sand Tomb, Icy Wind and Bullet Punch, Protect and Counter, respectively. Spikes is in the Egg Moves slot because I can't cram it all in the Level-Up list. -_-;

Level-Up List:
Code: 
H. ThunderPunch
H. Ice Punch
H. Fire Punch
1. Pound
1. Sand Attack
1. Acid
1. Helping Hand
13. Sand Tomb
17. Encore
20. Bullet Punch
23. Force Palm
28. Poison Jab
35. Gravity
39. Dig
45. Counter
50. Earth Power
55. Fissure
TM List:
Code: 
TM01 - Focus Punch
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM04 - Strength
HM05 - Defog
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Bug/Fairy Egg Moves:
Code: 
Rapid Spin
Comet Punch
Whirlwind
Wish
Follow Me
Wake-Up Slap
Knock Off
Spikes
Signal Beam
U-Turn
EDIT: Thanks X-Presumptuous for pointing out Me First. I also tweaked up the movelists a bit.

Comments?
 
Level Up Moves:
Code: 
Pre Evo. Tail Wind
Pre Evo. Icy Wind
[B]Giving wind based moves to the pre-evo makes everything fit better flavour wise. They tie together nicely. If a movepool with specific pre-evo differences wins I'll open up a thread dedicated to fitting these changes onto the pre-evo. Some of the more dedicated Little Cup players could do it. Note a 2 move difference is the max between pre-evo's and final evo's.[/B] 
h. FirePunch
h. IcePunch
h. ThunderPunch
[B]Elemental coverage in the Punches is nice, but not all that useful in general. Some of the things you would have to use them on nerf you with Intimidate (Dos, Mence) and it doesn't even manage to 2HKO Chomp iirc. Not overpowering at all.[/B]
1. Tackle
1. Sand Attack
1. Rapid Spin
[B]Weak moves to start with. Albeit one very useful competitivly.[/B]
7. Mud Slap
13. Counter
[B]Being a support Pokemon, DLL would need to defend himself from attack at such low levels. As such Counter fits in very well. He can't attack well, so he hits the opponent with their own moves when a support move can't do better.[/B]
20. Sludge Bomb
27. Toxic Spikes
33. Fissure
40. Earth Power
47. Spikes
53. Earthquake
[B]Alternates between Offencive STAB moves, Spikes and Fissure.[/B] [B]The buisness end of his level up movepool. I wanted to seperate the spikes by a bit and not have attacking moves twice in a row on a support Pokemon. Fissure is cool because he digs holes and stuff ;P[/B]
Only Rapid Spin and the two Spikes are Competitivly Viable on 100% of sets. Sludge Bomb and Earth Power may make a rare apperance on Special Based sets looking for some STAB. Punches lack power so are only recommended if you completly lack coverage. Fissure is a gimmick at best. Counter is cool but situational. Earthquake is also a TM, hence doesn't count.

TM Moves:
Code: 
TM01 - Focus Punch [B]Giant fists...[/B]
TM05 - Roar [B]Whirlwind that doesn't hog a moveslot.[/B]
TM06 - Toxic 
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM65 - Shadow Claw [B]Hrm...[/B]
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish  [B]Tailwind that he can't pass to friendlies. Bleh![/B]
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
Ok, I cut out some of the more dodgey ones, and went over it killing the plain stupid ones (Natural Gift, obviously I missed that one first time around). It's got some decent options in there if it absolutly must use offencive moves, like Shadow Ball and Stone Edge. All the utility moves are, of course, included.

Egg Moves
Code: 
Gravity
Wish
Heal Bell
Encore
Pursuit
Me Fist
Follow Me
Swift
Fairy/Ground
(Pachirisu, Mawile, Breloom. All "Fairys". So don't tell me it could never be in the Fairy Egg group)
Exactly the same egg groups as Mawile, Pachirisu and Pikachu, for that matter.

The Egg Moves mainly focus on movs you would be more likely to see on "fairy" pokemon. This gives DLL the ability to get all the ground/poison moves in level up and the support options such as Heal Bell, Wish and Encore from it's Fairy counterparts. Gravity is learnt by a few fairys and there was no way I could not include it in my final movepool. Bear with me I'm working out the filler moves as we speak.




Comments/criticisms?
 
So let me get this straight. You guys want to completely skip an entire poll in the intrests of making this fit flavorwise? This is a competitive project. Since you are all so adamant about having Tailwind anyways, just put it on DLL for now, because this thing might not end up with evos. I don't want the movepools to be another Persistant, where we were locked into Tailwind just for the fact that we included it in the ability. I will not support anything that references future polls anymore, or hinges upon elements of the pokemon that are in future polls. Thats poll-jumping in it's finest form. So please, stop grasping at straws for a way to justify one move. Just put it on there and cry Wooper, ok? Just to make that clearer: I will not support any movepool that references an prevo because it is poll-jumping and non-competitive based.
 
Heres my go.

Code: 
Level Up Moves:
Pre-evo. - Tailwind
Pre-evo. - Icy Wind
h. - Fire Punch
h. - Ice Punch
h. - Thunderpunch
1. - Pound
1. - Sand Attack
7. - Mud-Slap
13. - Mach Punch
18. - Rapid Spin
25. - Endure
32. - Toxic Spikes
36. - BlindingMire
43. - Spikes
51. - Earthquake
60. - Fissure

This set seems to allow for quite a few good moves. Tailwind is good for the team almost anytime, so is rapid spin. It gets both types of spikes to set up with. And the Signature move BlindingMire. Fissure is usually not allowed and Earthquake already comes from a TM.

Code: 
Egg Moves:
Gravity
Wish
Heal Bell
Encore
Follow Me
Dig
Poison Jab

Groups: Ground, Fairy

Most of his utility moves come from Egg. Gravity can only really be used on select teams. Wish and Heal Bell are all around good and Encore can prove to be annoying. Follow Me only works in 2v2 though.

Code: 
TMs:
TM01 - Focus Punch
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM30 - Shadow Ball (not sure about this one)
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace (if Dugtrio can, why not him?)
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM61 - Will-o-wisp
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM89 - U-turn
TM90 - Substitute
TM92 - Trick Room
HM01 - Cut
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb
 
No one noticed my question from before, so I'll ask again in hopes of a response that can assist with the construction movepools for everyone.

What are the opinions regarding Encore-Trapping? Yea or nay?
 
I got no problem with it. Like I said before, umbreon can do worse things to you like ML -> Yawn -> BP.

The fact of the matter is: nobody falls for mean look/block/spiderweb, if they can't kill your trapper they tend to switch leaving you stuck with a trapped counter.
 
Just to make mine Official

Level Up Moves
Code: 
-: Fire Punch
-: Ice Punch
-: Thunder Punch
1: Poison Sting
1: Sand Attack
6: Rapid Spin
9: Mud Slap
12: Disable
17: Double Slap
22: Leech Life
27: Magnitude
34: Wake-Up Slap
41: Poison Jab
48: BlindingMire
55: Earth Power
62: Fissure
TMs:
Code: 
01: Focus Punch
06: Toxic
10: Hidden Power
11: Sunny Day
15: Hyper Beam
16: Light Screen
17: Protect
18: Rain Dance
20: Safeguard
21: Frustration
26: Earthquake
27: Return
28: Dig
32: Double Team
33: Reflect
36: Sludge Bomb
37: Sandstorm
39: Rock Tomb
42: Facade
43: Secret Power
44: Rest
45: Attract
46: Thief
56: Fling
58: Endure
60: Drain Punch
68: Giga Impact
71: Stone Edge
78: Captivate
80: Rock Slide
82: Sleep Talk
83: Natural Gift
84: Poison Jab
87: Swagger
89: U-Turn
90: Substitute
H4: Strength
H6: Rock Smash
H8: Rock Climb
Egg Moves (Bug/Field):
Code: 
Gravity (Smeargle)
Me First (Rattata, Sentret, Stantler, Smeargle, Poochyena, Absol, Riolu,
Wish (Eevee, Girafarig, Smeargle, Skitty, Illumise, Spinda)
Agility (Pikachu, Venonat, Growlithe, Ponyta, Farfetch'd, Scyther, Eevee, Ledyba, Spinarak, Aipom, Girafarig, Gligar, Sneasel, Smeargle, Torchic, Surskit, Nincada, Piplup, Buizel, Buneary, Skorupi)
Encore (Seel, Ledyba, Wooper, Shuckle, Smeargle, Slakoth, Volbeat, Illumise, Spinda, Spheal, Chimchar, Buneary
Haze (Ekans, Eevee, Wooper, Smeargle, Surskit, Seviper)
Spikes (Pineco, Smeargle)
Toxic Spikes (Nidoran F, Nidoran M, Venonat, Spinarak, Pineco, Smeargle, Skorupi)
 
iBojangles, I really like yours, but I really feel like Earth Power really shouldn't be overlooked, seeing as its one of the main reasons a Gravity user with Persistent and Maniaclyrisist's spread is so awesome. Maybe give it Earth Power instead of Earthquake at Level 51, since Earthquake is already a TM?

Also, I feel like for Gothic Togekiss's reasons if nothing else, it deserves Shock Wave and Energy Ball, but I can see how that could make its movepool crowded, and they're less important that its STAB.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top