CAP 9 CAP 9 - Concept Submissions

[Illithian]

dropped support for my concept, but i imagine the same complaints were present during Syclant, Stratagem and Kitsunoh's due to their unique abilities/moves. unless the complaints were made in regard to programming them in? at any rate, unless something's changed i didnt think new abilities were against the rules, just easier and more faithful to the game and thus avoided.

Syclant didn't have a concept in the first place, and those three each had a custom ability/move that was designed NOT to fit the concept but so those pokemon could work properly in a competitive environment.

Stratagem is bog standard sweeper, he needs a STAB; Syclant wouldn't have been used at all without some kind of SR help; and Kit could use some power.

= bog standard.

What you were suggesting was a completely new move and mechanic just to fit the concept, let alone how the pokemon would work.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

Name: Suicide Non-Lead
General Description: A pokemon that has no real potential as a "classic" suicide lead but can but send in mid- or late-game, help the team but often die or become useless in the process.
Justification: In the current metagame, suicide leads are rampant but we almost never see "suicidal" pokemon out of the lead position.
Questions to be Answered:

• Can a suicide non-lead pokemon be as effective as a suicide lead to do a specific job?
• How would an opponent react against a pokemon that he knows will probably commit suicide?
• Is using a whole pokemon only to do one specific job and die worth it or would that slot be better used with a standard pokemon to fill one of the team's weaknesses?

Explanation: Such a pokemon should be able to perform multiples suicidal jobs to prevent him from being too predictable. He could be able, for exemple, to use screens, aromatherapy and Healing Wish on the defensive side, to pull off a great baton pass (for example, a reliable Ingrain), but losing too much HP in the process to be reusable on the supporting side, or to use moves like Destiny Bond or Memento on the offensive side. He could have abilities such as Aftermath or Effect Spore in order to hurt the opponent even if it is killed, but Skill Swapping a bad ability is also an interesting option.
That said, he souldn't be able to revive another pokemon, even by commiting suicide, because such a move doesn't exist and wouldn't make us learn anything about the "real" metagame.

 

[Nik S D]

Hmm...suicide non-lead...it looks pretty interesting, but there are too many options that you give for it. Care to elaborate?

 

[Walvren]

I'm not too sure about a suicide non-lead.
Lets see... Suicide sweeper? We have tons of sweepers that don't kill themselves in suicide fashion (though a sweeper with Explosion is a thought).

Suicide tank/stall/wall? Nope.

Suicide utility is probably the most lucrative option but probably not quite so good as a suicide lead which would use entry hazards where it's most useful- at the start of the battle.

 

[Objection]

After six concept ideas, I finally found one I liked.

Name
High risk, high reward

Description
A strong pokemon that relies almost entirely on non-100%* chances of move success.

Justification
Here we discussed the merits and drawbacks of moves like Fire Blast and Stone Edge, the powerful yet inaccurate moves. A lot of people said that they would use Flamethrower and Surf rather than Fire Blast and Hydro Pump simply because it only takes one miss to turn the tide of a battle. What if the option of a decent 100% accurate move was not available though? What if the pokemon had the stats, typing and ability of a perfect sweeper but relied on high power, inaccurate moves to do any significant damage? What we will hopefully learn from this concept is the viability of inaccurate moves.

Questions To Be Answered

• Which is generally more desirable: accuracy or power?
• Can a high-risk pokemon be used effectively in certain stages of a battle with few if any good reliable moves?
• Will people use this pokemon in conjunction with means of making its moves more accurate (Gravity, Wide Lens, Rain Dance for Thunder, etc.)?

Explanation
The idea is that (almost) all of this pokemon's movepool consists of moves with less than 100% accuracy, or the pokemon has the ability Hustle or something similar that reduces the accuracy of its moves. If such an ability is not chosen, then we may have to stop this pokemon from getting Hidden Power, although I hope it doesn't come to that. If such an ability is not chosen, then this pokemon should certainly not get any 100% accurate moves with over 70 base power. I would also object to any 100% accurate status like Thunder Wave moves and any 100% accurate stat-reducing moves like Screech as such moves are both significantly rewarding (the stat-reducing moves less so) and virtually risk-free. No Guard and Compoundeyes are off the list because they defeat the concept. If certain low power, 100% accurate moves such as Rock Smash are required, then Technician should also not be an ability option. This kind of pokemon would be offensively oriented since high defences would take most of the risk out. Typing could be anything, although getting STAB on some of the more powerful or popular inaccurate moves could prove beneficial.

*For the sake of this concept, 0% chances of a move hitting (eg, using Infernape's Close Combat vs Gengar) are disregarded.

Also, regarding the Berry Boost Abuse concept, would that also affect the type-resist berries? For example, would Occa Berry reduce damage from fire-type attacks by 75% instead of 50%?

 

[Masamune]

Name: Berry Boost Abuse

General Description: A pokemon that has nice and even stats, but could pose as one of the most unique, unpredictable pokemon in the entire metagame, do to its ability to double its berry boosts - either through ability (activates berry on 25%/50%/75%, and doubles the boost) or a custom move (that uses up the berry instantly, and doubles the boost). It'd also increase the number of quality teams out there (building teams that can counter most sets, for example).

Justification: This concept allows us to try out an incredible array of sets on one pokemon, rather than have it limited to one 'job' - it can sweep, wall, tank, scout, and so on, depending on what berry is held. It'd naturally requite a very large movepool to be effective, yet not a broken one.

Questions to be Answered:
Which often-underrated berries can now shine?
How does your opponent react to this when the boost hasn't been activated?
How does your opponent react after the boost has been activated?
What can your opponent do to stop the boost from taking effect in the first place?

Explanation: It could explode with a double liechi. It could heal an insane amount of health with a double sitrus. These are but a fraction of the possible combos usable with this pokemon. A pokemon like this would be able to do anything - literally. For this concept to be effective, it would have to have even stats - such as a spread of base 90s, for example. Imagine this scenario: It's your last pokemon. It's on half health. They still have six, full health pokemon (god knows how you got into this mess). You sub and activate a double custap (evasion). They miss, the sub's still intact. You stat-up and proceed to sweep their entire team. Alright, maybe that's a bit of an over-exaggeration, but it's certainly possible. A pokemon that could fill any role? A pokemon that could increase our current knowledge of the metagame? A pokemon that's fun? Count me in :naughty:

P.S. - I suck at writing up wall-o-texts, but I hope you get the general idea.

P.S.S - I love Santa Clop.

 

[Walvren]

I don't like the high-risk high reward idea. There are already sweepers out there in the world which already employ Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Hydro Pump and are effective with more reliable moves in the mix. Low accuracy moves aren't always for sheer power. It can be a matter of coverage that can deliver a xHKO.

The doubling of berry effects is an interesting idea. Its basically a stat boost you don't need to activate yourself (like Porygonz's Download). Nobody can say this concept is broken: the sacrifice is that you can't use other items.

 

[Objection]

I don't like the high-risk high reward idea. There are already sweepers out there in the world which already employ Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Hydro Pump and are effective with more reliable moves in the mix. Low accuracy moves aren't always for sheer power. It can be a matter of coverage that can deliver a xHKO

If they have more reliable moves of the same type, why don't they use them? If you say it's to get an OHKO or 2HKO that the accurate move would miss out on, then isn't that the same as using them "for sheer power"?

I think you kinda missed the point of the concept though. We all know that users of inaccurate moves are effective when they have accurate moves as well, but we don't know how effective users of inaccurate moves are without accurate moves in their movepool.

 

[Masamune]

The doubling of berry effects is an interesting idea. Its basically a stat boost you don't need to activate yourself (like Porygonz's Download). Nobody can say this concept is broken: the sacrifice is that you can't use other items.

And the gain is that you can have it in any stat you want. Seems like a fair trade to me.

 

[Walvren]

If they have more reliable moves of the same type, why don't they use them? If you say it's to get an OHKO or 2HKO that the accurate move would miss out on, then isn't that the same as using them "for sheer power"?

You're misinterpreting. When I said There are already sweepers out there in the world which already employ Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Hydro Pump and are effective with more reliable moves in the mix, I meant that along with Fire Blast/Stone Edge/Hydro Pump, they also had effective STAB moves. I mentioned later that unreliable moves are sometimes used for coverage.

 

[Tint]

excuse the format, this is being typed on my iphone.

NAME: Multitype user. (i hope this isn't illegal)

GENERAL DESCRIPTION: A Pokemon who, via the ability Multitype, can use the type plates to change types.

JUSTIFICATION: As a metagame adapts and evolves, often our CAPs lose their role in the metagame. As seen with Arceus, Multitype lets you run almost an infnite number of set, allowing CAP 9 to almost surely stay at the top of usage. This also allows it to always be an anti-meta game pokemon, something often described as a gimmicky set, but when used in the correct metagame, counters very specific sets or strategies. One example may be TormentTran or SubToxitran. They are used to dismantle the main switch-ins (bulky waters) or the main method of taking down Heatran (super effective attacks) I personally think we could make this CAP great, and it will have to be our most involved building yet. Also, it will be a fresh twist to the CAP metagames, and maybe bring more battlers to the server.

QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED:

-How much does typing affect a pokemons usage?

-Which types are the best offensivley? Defensivley?

-How will you counter a pokemon who can be any type, and run a variety of sets?

-When the intial wave of countering pokemon arsise to challenge CAP9, how well will it adapt to these counters?

-Can a pokemon with multiple types be countered effectivley?

-How will bulky offense adapt due to losing the "type synergy" it needs to switch around?

EXPLANATION: If you look at our past CAPs, you see two things. Some are almost useless due to metagame shifts (Scylant, Pyroak (but he was always useless) and Revy.) and some have caused metagame shifts (most notably Arg, maybe Fidgit.) CAP 9 will always be a changing force, you can try to counter set 1, but then it runs set 2. Set 2's start becoming popular, you use set 1 etc. We'd really have to work hard as a community to keep it strong, bulky, and fast enough to function, but keep it from becoming broken.

 

[Walvren]

Yes, saying that it uses Multitype is illegal. What you could say is that it could change its type using whatever method (in this case, you specified ability)

 

[Nik S D]

No offense Objectin, but I agree with Walvren. A Pokemon with moves that miss a lot, but are very powerful just sounds...unreliable. Besides, it sounds like the kind of strategy I used before I knew about competitive battling (and I kept wondering why I lost at the Battle Frontier...). Again, no offense.

 

[Atlas]

Name:best healer

General Description: best use being to heal teammates hp and status

Justification: we've yet explored the ways of making a healer

Questions to be Answered:
what qualities make the best healer; movepool, stats, stat distribution, ability, everything?
can it outclass other healers currently used? (i have no idea stats for cap metagame, im assuming the only ones used are blissey, celebi, jirachi and maybe cresselia. three of those belonging to the 600 club too)
can this type of pokemon earn a spot on any team, even replacing common staples? for the better? worse?

Explanation: there are many healing options available (wish, leech seed, aqua ring, aromatherapy, lunar dance, etc), what else can this pokemon do. how should it best use itself to heal its teammates. maybe using safeguard to protect them from incoming threats, using uturn of baton pass to damage while letting its teammate safely switch in or passing defence boosts to ensure that the receiver can take advantage of the healing.

all of the above can make this a healer but how can we make this the best healer. should we give it a moderate attacking stat and movepool to not be a drain on a team cohesion. by doing that are we going to lessen its healing capabilities or worse, neutering it. to be the best should it be able to beat the best.

 

[zarator]

Name: Berry Boost Abuse

I don't think this concept is acceptable as it is. It pretty much implies that either we give it a custom ability (which is an illegal thing to ask in the description of a concept), or a custom move, which is a more borderline case, but still borderline. We already stated in the past that we don't want to create moves that aren't a ripoff of already existing ones (barring power, PP and accuracy). So I suggest you to keep the thing more general, although the concept itself would require one of those anyway. So you may as well broad the concept a bit more.

 

[Walvren]

I don't think this concept is acceptable as it is. It pretty much implies that either we give it a custom ability (which is an illegal thing to ask in the description of a concept), or a custom move, which is a more borderline case, but still borderline. We already stated in the past that we don't want to create moves that aren't a ripoff of already existing ones (barring power, PP and accuracy). So I suggest you to keep the thing more general, although the concept itself would require one of those anyway. So you may as well broad the concept a bit more.

Thinking about it now, yes, it is totally implied we need to put custom stuff in. It would appear the concept is too narrow method-wise. But apart from that, I quite liked the concept.

 

[scampy]

Guess I'll give this a shot! Sorry if it's not the kind of thing you guys are looking for.

Name: Chaotic

General Description:

A Pokemon who can act either as a defensive wall or a frail sweeper (note: Not an offensive tank).

Justification:

When we think of unpredictability, it is usually limited to a simple change to a standard moveset. It could be Lucario running Choice Specs, or a mixed Tyranitar using Expert Belt. These sets have different counters to their standards, but ultimately the nature of the Pokemon itself does not change (Lucario will still be a frail sweeper, Tyranitar will still be a tank). So I would like to suggest a Pokemon that can not only run wildly different movesets, but be able to change its "nature" as well.

Questions to be Answered:

How will opponents react to a Pokemon that can either passively wall or sweep at a moments notice?

If a new Pokemon than can be either offensive or defensive is introduced, what direction will the metagame turn to? Offense, Stall, or some kind of middle ground?

How important is unpredictability when it comes to a Pokemons success?

Would the offensive and defensive sets cycle in and out of fashion? If defensive sets become popular for example, would people start using the offensive sets to catch people off guard?

Explanation:

Like I mentioned before, the current Pokemon in the game express their unpredictability as different forms of offense (such as special, mixed or physical Infernape). A Pokemon able to function as either a wall or sweeper takes the idea of randomness one step further. Its versatility would also allow it to fit into pretty much any team.

---

I realise that the main flaw in my suggestion is that you would probably need to invent some sort of ability or hold item for it to work to its fullest potential, though. Just a thought.

 

[Nik S D]

Personally, I don't see how we could actually create a Pokemon like Chaotic. It's a pretty good concept, though. I'd look forward to seeing it created.

 

[Stagnant]

Name:

• Hold Item

General Description:

• A Pokemon who influences it's or it's opponent's item(s) in several ways, whether it is from his Ability or movepool.

Justification:

• Hold-Items are a HUGE part of competitive Pokemon and seeing them become the sole focus of a Pokemon will show how advantages they really are.

Questions to be Answered:

• How influential is an item?
• Would a item focused Pokemon become more defensive or offensive?
• Would moves, aside from Trick/ Switcheroo, that involve item usage become viable?

Explanation:

• Covet, Embargo, Fling, Judgement, Knock Off, Recycle, Switcheroo, Thief, and Trick are moves that pertain to Items.
• Abilities that pertain to Items are Frisk, Klutz, Multi-Type, Sticky Hold, and Unburden.
• I personally think that it would be interesting to see an ability that doubles the users item potency (Eg: Doubles Leftover recovery, Doubles Liechi Boost, and maybe LifeOrb@ 60% damage boost 20% Recoil o.o; ).
• There can be a lot of creativity here as well as answering some questions.

 

[Witnessed]

Oh, it's ok. I had no idea they had been tested before, pardon me.

 

[mushtool]

Name: Indirect Damage Master
General Description:
A pokemon that isn't powerful, but can use a variety of moves, along with its ability, to wear down its opponent

Justification:
Many moves, such as toxic, sandstorm, leech seed, and entry hazards are designed to wear down the opponent, rather than take them head on. However, most pokemon that learn these moves, such as torterra and celebi, do not have abilities that help wear down the opponent. A not so obvious ability in the game that can work with these moves is rough skin, learnt only by the defensively lacking sharpedo.

Questions to be Answered:
How influencial is indirect damage in the metagame?
What affect do these moves have on switching?
What pokemon become more used when indirect damage is involved?

Explanation:
This pokemon should be a defensive pokemon, as it would know many indirect damaging attacks to help heal itself and hinder the enemy.It could be a majority of types, but steel and grass is a plausible combo. Rough Skin is a good ability, but others such as aftermath and mabye even bad dreams if it knew a sleep inducing move.

 

[VKCA]

Chaotic

Custom items/abilities isn't the only way this could work, Power trick and the slightly more risky power swap/guard swap could also make it semi-viable. I really like the idea, but it restricts us unfortunately.

 

[Chomz]

Name: The ultimate team player
description: A pokemon that solely relies on team-mates to peform efficently
Justification: A pokemon that could actually make some use of moves such as "assist" or "beat up" and possibly have an ability to make them worthwhile, adding a different twist to the metagame
Questions to be asked:
How well could it perform late game?
Would the randomness really be worth it?

Explanation:
The "team player" could be a fast powerful pokemon utilising its speed to get the upper hand, or a defencive tank, able to recover, should it choose the wrong move or slip up, but I am happy for it to go anyway.

Assist and Beat Up are terrible moves. Assist replies too much on luck in its execution and is unreliable to the point to utter uselessness, while Beat Up is just... weak, especially when you consider how half your team members can't contribute much offensively anyway. A Pokemon which relies on these moves would be terrible. I don't see how a new move could even capture the essence of those two examples without radically changing the game mechanics or becoming a programming nightmare.

If you intended this concept to be interpreted from a "looser" standpoint, all existing Pokemon require a certain degree of help from their team mates. Some of the most common examples are already widely used today. While Baton Pass teams are the most obvious examples of this, they certainly aren't the only ones; sweepers, for example, need team mates to remove their counters and set them up for a successful sweep. A team has 6 Pokemon for a good reason. Every Pokemon can't function solely on its own, and the synergy between it and the others are what make Pokemon such a fun game. Therefore, to a certain extent, every single existing Pokemon fulfills your current concept. It's not anything new.

Furthermore, I don't see how your explanation supports your description in any way. A fast Pokemon using its speed to get an upper hand... how does that make it a team player? A defenSive tank that can recover should it slip up... how does that make it team-reliant?

 

[Maci12]

OU ARCEUS

Description

A pokemon that, like Arceus, changes its type based on a certain factor. This means its STAB could be any type based on said factor.

Justification

In the OU metagame, pokemon usually serve only one purpose, and therefore are extremely predictable. An example of this is Scizor. The majority he is brought on, he is Choice Band and is going to Bullet Punch / U - Turn, which makes him extremely easy to predict and switch to the appropriate pokemon. Another example of this is Salamence. He is almost always one of two things; Mixmence or DDmence, and both carry very similar counters. A pokemon that is unpredictable type-wise would add another dimension of prediction to the game.

Questions To Be Answered

1) If an extremely unpredictable pokemon is put into the metagame, will over-centralized sets become less used in favor of unpredictability?
2) How would walls such as Blissey or Skarmory deal with the presence of a sweeper who could hit unpredictably with a certain attack type or certain attack spectrum?
3) Would a pokemon with this chance to have any STAB start to have its own predictable set?
4) How will the metagame change around to combat a threat that could be anything

Explanation

Scizor, Weavile, Salamence, Metagross, Suicune, Vaporeon, Blissey, Skarmory, Infernape, and Lucario are just some of the examples of pokemon that are used for the same thing almost every time. Scizor, the CB Technician abuser, Weavile, the revenge killer, Metagross, the suicide lead/late game Agili sweeper, etc. These pokemon can thrive despite being overly predictable in the OU metagame because almost everything that counters them is also extremely predictable, (Cresselia for Salamence & Metagross, Heatran for Scizor, etc.) and therefore they have partners to take down these things that stand in their way. A pokemon that couldn't be predicted until the majority of the set was revealed would greatly increase the amount of mind games that occur in the metagame.

==============
Example A.
==============
Salamence forces a Choice Banded Metagross locked onto Earthquake out. (This happens often)

Salamence uses Dragon Dance. (Of course.)

CAP 9 comes in. (If CAP 9 hadn't been revealed up until this point in the battle, Salamence has no way of knowing whether this version of CAP 9 is tailored to defeat him, or if its something that he could beat easily, oh the mind games. This means that he can't risk an attack. If he uses Earthquake, they might be Flying, he can't risk if CAP 9 is Steel and get locked into Outrage, etc.)

+1 Salamence switches out.
==============
Now if they switch out, they still have no idea what the type CAP 9 is, so they will have to take some risks in order to find out.

This is just one example of how, if CAP 9 went in this direction, overly centralized sets such as DDmence would have to be on their toes to be successful.

Hope you like the idea, if there is anything illegal, please tell me and I'll fix it.

 

[Darkflagrance]

Name: Berry Boost Abuse

General Description: A pokemon that has nice and even stats, but could pose as one of the most unique, unpredictable pokemon in the entire metagame, do to its ability to double its berry boosts - either through ability (activates berry on 25%/50%/75%, and doubles the boost) or a custom move (that uses up the berry instantly, and doubles the boost). It'd also increase the number of quality teams out there (building teams that can counter most sets, for example).

Justification: This concept allows us to try out an incredible array of sets on one pokemon, rather than have it limited to one 'job' - it can sweep, wall, tank, scout, and so on, depending on what berry is held. It'd naturally requite a very large movepool to be effective, yet not a broken one.

Questions to be Answered:
Which often-underrated berries can now shine?
How does your opponent react to this when the boost hasn't been activated?
How does your opponent react after the boost has been activated?
What can your opponent do to stop the boost from taking effect in the first place?

Explanation: It could explode with a double liechi. It could heal an insane amount of health with a double sitrus. These are but a fraction of the possible combos usable with this pokemon. A pokemon like this would be able to do anything - literally. For this concept to be effective, it would have to have even stats - such as a spread of base 90s, for example. Imagine this scenario: It's your last pokemon. It's on half health. They still have six, full health pokemon (god knows how you got into this mess). You sub and activate a double custap (evasion). They miss, the sub's still intact. You stat-up and proceed to sweep their entire team. Alright, maybe that's a bit of an over-exaggeration, but it's certainly possible. A pokemon that could fill any role? A pokemon that could increase our current knowledge of the metagame? A pokemon that's fun? Count me in :naughty:

P.S. - I suck at writing up wall-o-texts, but I hope you get the general idea.

P.S.S - I love Santa Clop.

This idea may seem borderline illegal, but a slight tweak of it might solve those problems.

The concept remains Berry Abuse. But the "Berry Abuse" is not necessarily an ability or move designed to increase the berry's quantitative effectiveness by some numerical percent, but rather a pokemon like Garchomp or Heatran, that uses its berry strategically to set-up at a key moment. Thus, this CAP concept forces us to examine the strategic possibilities offered by different berries in depth, while at the same time not necessarily implying a particular move or ability.

Thus, this pokemon can be effective due to its moves and ability, and it does not have to run the berry to be effective. But because it is capable of running several berries, all effectively, it becomes a prediction conundrum.