Umberon's slow, and it doesn't take entry hazards well. Toxic Spikes aren't covered by Synchronize, methinks. Besides: We haven't had a Dark-type CAP yet anyway, and Umbreon still can't take Trick very well.
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CAP 9 CAP 9 - Main Typing Discussion
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agreed with Tort, its slower than what we'll probably do. (Slow Taunt)
Also, Umbreon has a very weak Pursuit, coming from base 65 attack.
Umbreon is mono-Dark, and this CAP would certainly not be.
Synchronize does not stop Sleep, but CAP9 will certainly find a way to get around sleep.
Ummm, umbreon can't pursuit trick users on the switch or anything, and it doesn't particularly want to get locked into any of its common moves.
I think that the Pokemon that most fits the role of Trick punisher in the current metagame would be Tyranitar. It's bulky enough to come in on, say, Rotom's Thunderbolt, doesn't really mind getting Tricked a Choice Scarf, and gets lovely STAB on Pursuit and Crunch coming off an insane Attack stat.
I haven't read the entire thread, sorry. However, I'm going to put my two-cents in. The concept is "Stop the Secondary". This is supposed to stop a plethora of secondary effects through typing, blah blah blah. However, I mostly see (since the typing poll came out) the discussion of trick. And, with the discussion of trick, it seems the only way people are purposing to stop trick is to kill the tricker. This isn't stopping trick in any way, shape, or form. There are many pursuit users you can use, and none of them combat the secondary in many other means. So, why is only trick being tossed about as a secondary to stop? We still have poison, paralysis, weather, entry hazards, etc.
Also, why is the only way people are purposing to stop trick through the use of Pursuit? Yes, many tricksters are weak to dark, but that doesn't warrant changing the entire concept to basically, "Stop the Trick". That is severely, in my opinion, underplaying the role of the CAP. Yes, we haven't decided on movepool, stats, ability, etc. But still, atm all I'm reading about is Trick stopping. I think people are losing sight of the fact that there are many more Secondary Effects than trick, and that by choosing to make the main type Dark simply to get a STAB pursuit could severely limit other aspects of the concept. Yes, Dark gets resistances, but that's really all it has going for it. I'm voting (futilely) Normal for the potential movepool we could give the CAP.
EDIT: (From other thread)
Also, which direction are we going with "Stop the Secondary" Because at the moment it seems we're proposing to just beat the shit out of any user of Secondary Effects, which is supremely flawed, IMO. Yes, pursuit hits Celebi, so no more leech seed, it hits Psychics and ghosts, so no more trick. But how are we going to stop status effects? How are we going to stop weather? How are we going to stop entry hazards? Aromatherapy? Cloud Nine? Rapid Spin? If so, we're REALLY missing the potential of this CAP! And, in a way, making another T-Tar. He stops weather with Sand Stream. He pursuits. Then, just throw Fidgit or something into your team, and you're all set.
Also, why is the only way people are purposing to stop trick through the use of Pursuit? Yes, many tricksters are weak to dark, but that doesn't warrant changing the entire concept to basically, "Stop the Trick". That is severely, in my opinion, underplaying the role of the CAP. Yes, we haven't decided on movepool, stats, ability, etc. But still, atm all I'm reading about is Trick stopping. I think people are losing sight of the fact that there are many more Secondary Effects than trick, and that by choosing to make the main type Dark simply to get a STAB pursuit could severely limit other aspects of the concept. Yes, Dark gets resistances, but that's really all it has going for it. I'm voting (futilely) Normal for the potential movepool we could give the CAP.
EDIT: (From other thread)
Also, which direction are we going with "Stop the Secondary" Because at the moment it seems we're proposing to just beat the shit out of any user of Secondary Effects, which is supremely flawed, IMO. Yes, pursuit hits Celebi, so no more leech seed, it hits Psychics and ghosts, so no more trick. But how are we going to stop status effects? How are we going to stop weather? How are we going to stop entry hazards? Aromatherapy? Cloud Nine? Rapid Spin? If so, we're REALLY missing the potential of this CAP! And, in a way, making another T-Tar. He stops weather with Sand Stream. He pursuits. Then, just throw Fidgit or something into your team, and you're all set.
Definitely read the whole thread, there's been compelling arguments for both sides.
If it gets an ability that could hamper Trick users (like Sticky Hold or Klutz, as examples,) then it would be able to make them waste a turn locking in Trick (since most Trick users are carrying Choice Scarves or Specs) and then hit them with Pursuit when they try to switch out (or pound them with a strong dark move.) And, if not, it could still potentially benefit from grabbing a Choice Scarf (or Specs too, depending on its stats.) It might force a switch eventually, but it's still helping to keep this from being too much of a "defensive/passive" secondary absorber and more of "offensive/active" secondary destroyer.
If CAP 9 had, hypothetically, this in conjunction with a move that could make it benefit from being hit with a status move as well, and with the correct move pool, this would vastly discourage a lot of the secondary effects users from coming in and trying to cripple the rest of your team.
If it gets an ability that could hamper Trick users (like Sticky Hold or Klutz, as examples,) then it would be able to make them waste a turn locking in Trick (since most Trick users are carrying Choice Scarves or Specs) and then hit them with Pursuit when they try to switch out (or pound them with a strong dark move.) And, if not, it could still potentially benefit from grabbing a Choice Scarf (or Specs too, depending on its stats.) It might force a switch eventually, but it's still helping to keep this from being too much of a "defensive/passive" secondary absorber and more of "offensive/active" secondary destroyer.
If CAP 9 had, hypothetically, this in conjunction with a move that could make it benefit from being hit with a status move as well, and with the correct move pool, this would vastly discourage a lot of the secondary effects users from coming in and trying to cripple the rest of your team.
There's more than Trick and Status effects. Did you miss the whole purpose of the concept? Honestly.
We KNOW how to stop trick and status effects. Guts, vital spirit, Natural Cure, pursuit, Klutz... Blah blah blah. Why not figure out how to stop different status effects than just these two, and, I dunno, do something productive?
We KNOW how to stop trick and status effects. Guts, vital spirit, Natural Cure, pursuit, Klutz... Blah blah blah. Why not figure out how to stop different status effects than just these two, and, I dunno, do something productive?
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