Chandelure

With all this tiering/shadow tag being OP stuff aside, I think a colbur berry shanderaa would be a very effective set. It checks many possible threats, such as a lead machamp or tyranitar.

Shanderaa@Colbur berry

Timid Nature (+spd, -att)
4 def/252 sp att/252 spd
-Calm Mind
-Fire Blast
-Shadow Ball
-HP Ground


By running a colbur berry, shanderaa could switch into a fighting move from machamp and be able to set up a CM while taking a payback nicely. This could work even after you have trapped and killed a certain member of the opponents team and he sends out a scarf-tar to revenge kill. Assuming you still have your berry, and maybe even a CM, you could take a pursuit/crunch, OHKO w/ HP ground and continue to sweep. Just a suggestion, but I think a Shanderaa that can handle potential counters is pretty epic :D
 
My point exactly. I love this thing, and before it got Shadow Tag, I kept thinking Shanderaa would be BL. Amazing SpA but meh stats everywhere else, at least by some this generation's standards. I'm expecting to see Scarves everywhere, as well as Swift Swim and other stuff. Shanderaa may be broken with Shadow Tag (who knows?) but still, without it, it isn't that threatening.
That's something I didn't even consider. Rain kills this thing outright by crippling Fire attacks and making it easier to KO thanks to abilities and boosted Water attacks.

Heck, the new Sandstorm abilities can help too. That Steel mole outspeeds Shanderaa as I remember, and a STAB EQ isn't going to go over well for Shandy.
 
That's something I didn't even consider. Rain kills this thing outright by crippling Fire attacks and making it easier to KO thanks to abilities and boosted Water attacks.

Heck, the new Sandstorm abilities can help too. That Steel mole outspeeds Shanderaa as I remember, and a STAB EQ isn't going to go over well for Shandy.
Another gimmicky counter I can think of, Physical Houndoom.
Sucker Punch (priority ftw), pursuit, AND resists both Shadow Ball and (Fire-type move). Tyranitar also resists both STABs, but lacks sucker punch.
Shanderaa pretty much needs a sub to survive super effective priority or anything that outspeeds it (Swift Swim, Sand Throw, Scarf). Shande can easily trap and murder anything, but afterwards, there's a lot of stuff that can revenge it back.
 
Another gimmicky counter I can think of, Physical Houndoom.
Sucker Punch (priority ftw), pursuit, AND rasists both Shadow Ball and (Fire-type move). Tyranitar also resists both STABs, but lacks sucker punch.
Shanderaa pretty much needs a sub to survive super effective priority or anything that outspeeds it (Swift Swim, Sand Throw, Scarf). Shande can easily trap and murder anything, but afterwards, there's a lot of stuff that can revenge it back.
Again, never thought about those.

Although I'm assuming for coverage that Shandy might be carrying a Fighting attack (Ghost/Fighting FTW) in the form of HP Fighting, which poses a problem to T-Tar if it's not Jolly. Regardless, Shandy is not invincible, and it is certainly not game changing.
 
Ironically, Dugtrio can trap it back and EQ for the kill, as well as an opposing Shande. Choice Scar Shan is plain bullshit,since anything that resist your locked move will switch in and pursuit you to death. So, Shandera is pretty much forced to go Shadow Ball / Hidden Power or Fire Blast. While HP has perfect coverage, it lacks an amazing fire stab (assuming you're carrying Calm Mind / Sub / 2 offensive moves).
 
I was going to get around to making a post with a similar theme to the recent posts: without shadow tag, I question whether this would be the ghost of choice this generation. The main failing point of Shandera seems to be its speed. With that speed lots of things will be able to outspeed it and take it down, as Sajak said. I haven't seen a youtube video yet in which shandera managed to kill something. It generally just got outsped and sacked. (During writing this post I've seen one; Shandera took down a Jalord, but the Jalord decided to leech seed instead of run away).

So, although its special attack is amazing, I suspect that Gengar might still be the ghost of choice due to its much higher speed & a SpAtk not too much lower than Shandera's at 130. Shandera basically needs to OHKO any counters that try to switch into it, otherwise it will just be forced out again (or pursuited to death). Although Gengar's defenses are lower, the fact that its faster than a lot of pokemon means that it could in principle score a 2HKO on something that switches in, instead of having to retreat.

So, though Shandera has potential, it could take some effort to use it well, if it's to be used over other, faster ghosts like Gengar.
 
Ironically, Dugtrio can trap it back and EQ for the kill, as well as an opposing Shande. Choice Scar Shan is plain bullshit,since anything that resist your locked move will switch in and pursuit you to death. So, Shandera is pretty much forced to go Shadow Ball / Hidden Power or Fire Blast. While HP has perfect coverage, it lacks an amazing fire stab (assuming you're carrying Calm Mind / Sub / 2 offensive moves).
Riiiiiiight. Too bad it's already guaranteed a kill.
 
My bad, let me rephrase that.
Scarf Shan comes in a locked Close Combat, for example. You proceed to KO your foe. Then, Dugtrio or a Pursuit user comes it, and OHKOs back.
Run Nitro Charge on your moveset replacing substitute.

He resist every priority attack bar aqua jet, if you take out an aqua jet user on the foes team, its game.

Anyways I'm both excited and scared for this little chandelier thing.
 
I think this pokemon is great, a bit to low on the speed side but that can be helped with choice scarf, or baton passing speed to it,
It still has fire type meaning water, rock and ground weak. I think Cradily is the perfect counter for it in a sandstorm, unless the chandelier ghost runs HP Ice, but then again with a massive Sp.Def investment and the boost in sandstorm, I think this thing can outstall it easy..
Haven't done calculation's though.
 
I am kinda confused at your logic.

Shanderaa comes in on a choice Fighting move. It substitutes and gets 6 Calm Minds in, then kills your mon. Then Dugtrio does what exactly? The sub breaks and it dies. Shanderaa does choose which pokemon it comes in on, after all.
 
I am kinda confused at your logic.

Shanderaa comes in on a choice Fighting move. It substitutes and gets 6 Calm Minds in, then kills your mon. Then Dugtrio does what exactly? The sub breaks and it dies. Shanderaa does choose which pokemon it comes in on, after all.
Not to mention, if it comes in, it's likely on something the rest of your team can't handle, thus it has accomplished its purpose by neutralizing the threat. Any kills after that are just bonuses.
 
Aren't choice fighting moves kind of rare? I mean, come on, when was the last time you saw a Fighting-type with a Choice Band in 4th Generation OU?
 
Lucario and Infernape would rather run Life Orb, and don't most Machamp run Leftovers?

Most but still, there are some that like the extra power CB gives.

Anyways it's not just choiced fighting but choiced anything that Shanderaa resists.
 
A Shanderaa subbing down to a salac berry, perhaps? I'm not entirely sure how it'd work (it probably can't for something locked into something that can't even damage you... although I guess if you wait patiently enough you can get your damage through struggle), but the +1 of a choice scarf without having to limit yourself to 1 move, or sacrifice a moveslot just for nitro charge, for that matter, seems useful provided it can pull it off in the first place.
 
I personally have high hopes for this cute little ghost/fire. If it drops to uber I'll kinda be sad... I've been looking forward to using this even before the Shadow Tag.
 
A Shanderaa subbing down to a salac berry, perhaps? I'm not entirely sure how it'd work (it probably can't for something locked into something that can't even damage you... although I guess if you wait patiently enough you can get your damage through struggle), but the +1 of a choice scarf without having to limit yourself to 1 move, or sacrifice a moveslot just for nitro charge, for that matter, seems useful provided it can pull it off in the first place.
Yeah, I don't think that would work well. You'd basically have to switch into something that could hit you break your subs in order to sub down to the berry, and if your foe is faster than you, they're hitting you before you sub up again.

To make a self-sufficient shanderaa, a possible strategy, as Klaus mentioned above, is to put nitro charge on it. Although nitro charge is physical and won't do much damage, it will still net shanderaa a speed boost. So, for shadow tag varieties they can come in on something that can't hit them (or won't hit them for much), nitro charge a couple of times to boost speed, then calm mind if desired, and go to town. Substitute wouldn't fit on this set as the other two spots would go to a ghost move and special fire move. For non-shadow tag varieties, shanderaa comes in on something it threatens, nitro charges on the switch, and hopefully outspeeds whatever the foe brought in. In this case you probably wouldn't want to be calm minding, so you could use that moveslot for HP fighting or ground to try and take down something like Ttar or Heatran if they switch in.
 
ok granted shanderaa cant sub down while it sets up but it will activate salac if it just subs up during its counter right... first att breaks sub... you use substitute and etc until a salac activates... leaving you with 2 moves a sub and cm boosts

problem would be sandstorm of course though but that would only limit your time available to sweep multiple pokemon
a possible 420 speed would be epic with this guy, but still prey to scarfers, but priority moves wont be killing it instantly
all the speed boosting weather pokemon would be a pain to handle
 
As much as I want to deny that "guaranted kill" I must admit I can't. So, I can just focus in possible counters.
If shandy carries nitro charge instead of sub, sturdy pokemon can counter it easily. They can actually counter almost everything if played correctly. For example (regardless of tiers), Donphan and Aggron. Sturdy kicks in, they survive, and proceed to EQ. If for some odd reason Shanderaa has a focus sash and there's no sandstorm (I've never seen this happen), donphan can just Ice Shard. I'm also pretty sure Thick Fat snorlax can take a hit and counter with EQ, but I haven't done calcs. I'm sure a somewhat bulky heatran can survive a +6 shadow ball and just ohko back with Earth Power.
 

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