Pokémon Charizard

[aVocado]

I am suprised nobody is running a mixed Charizard X. That thing hits hard, but you have to run a third attacking move for the DD-Set. Can't believe people ignore 130 base SpA.

What can mixed CharX do that the DD doesn't do better? Rip through physical walls? I doubt the mixed set would do more than a +1 Touch Claw-boosted Flare Blitz/Outrage to any wall.

252 SpA Mega Charizard X Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 237-279 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 246-289 (58.5 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[mrglass]

I've noticed that Mega Charizard Y has a very difficult time dealing with fellow Fire types unless is runs EQ. Dragon Pulse, Focus Blast, and Ancient Power hit decently hard, but a lot of Fire types have dangerous SE or alternate STAB moves like Rock Slide on Darmanitan, Thunder Punch on Infernape, Bolt Strike on Victini, or Shadow Ball on Chandelure. Zard Y's options aren't going to OHKO, but it can be OHKOed.

 

[fightnugget]

DD Charizard X is just too damned powerful.
As for Y, Careful 252 hp/40 att/216 spd Thick Fat Snorlax with leftovers or assault vest can avoid a 2hko from anything and OHKO back with rockslide. Maybe it's a bit gimmicky, but this snorlax checks Y, and also functions as a very potent special wall.

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax in Sun: 286-337 (54.5 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[mrglass]

I am suprised nobody is running a mixed Charizard X. That thing hits hard, but you have to run a third attacking move for the DD-Set. Can't believe people ignore 130 base SpA.

I've run it before as a wallbreaker. Flare Blitz/Dragon Claw/ Overheat/ Roost works wonderfully as long as you have something with ground coverage.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax in Sun: 286-337 (54.5 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 144-171 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- 72.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not that charizard should even run that anyway due to the massive recoil, but snorlax can handle it just fine.

 

[doughboy]

Not that charizard should even run that anyway due to the massive recoil, but snorlax can handle it just fine.

Charizard should take into consideration running Flare Blitz on either of its Mega-Evolutions. Flare Blitz allows Mega-Charizard Y to 2HKO both Blissey and Chansey after SR with max attack. Charizard-Y's purpose is to wallbreak, so his health isn't particularly important to conserve because it won't be used in the endgame like your sweepers, but in the early and mid-game. It actually makes for a pretty decent lure in conjunction with EQ for Heatran, Tyranitar, and Blissey so another pokemon like Sheer Force Lando-I, Latios, or Mega Mawile can do some work. Flare Blitz let's DD Mega-Zard muscle through bulky ground types.

edit: Shiruba max attack with flare blitz is really what i am referring to as well. you are right eq is standard on special attacker. EQ hits ttar a lot harder with investment

 

[Shiruba]

Is it really a lure if it's standard, though? If I'm not mistaken, Earthquake is the primary slash on its first set, correct? If not, it's mentioned highly. I wouldn't call it comparable to HP Ground Genesect, personally.

 

[chimpact]

Char Y with flare blitz is pretty cool, but I think you should team support (Ttar/taunt user/hazards) to help take out pink blobs. Charizard Y is just a big nuke and more often than not can get easy kills everytime it comes in.

 

[LittleTLK]

Charizard should take into consideration running Flare Blitz on either of its Mega-Evolutions. Flare Blitz allows Mega-Charizard Y to 2HKO both Blissey and Chansey after SR with max attack. Charizard-Y's purpose is to wallbreak, so his health isn't particularly important to conserve because it won't be used in the endgame like your sweepers, but in the early and mid-game. It actually makes for a pretty decent lure in conjunction with EQ for Heatran, Tyranitar, and Blissey so another pokemon like Sheer Force Lando-I, Latios, or Mega Mawile can do some work. Flare Blitz let's DD Mega-Zard muscle through bulky ground types.

edit: Shiruba max attack with flare blitz is really what i am referring to as well. you are right eq is standard on special attacker. EQ hits ttar a lot harder with investment

So are you suggesting an aegislash-like build for Mega Y?

Naive/Hasty 252 att/252 sp att/4 speed?
Fire Blast
Solar Beam
Focus Blast
Flare Blitz/EarthQuake

?

If that's the case, there's actually a lot more options for it to be revenged. I suppose you could get into speed-creeping, but if you're saying it should function as a wallbreaker, I guess that's not relevant.

That is very interesting, but it seems somewhat inferior, especially since it would need to switch in and out or get easily revenged from uninvested speed, and it hates SR.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

What exactly is EQ used for on CharY? Focus Blast 2HKOs both (AV) Ttar and Heatran already, I can understand Flare Blitz for killing the blobs but EQ I don't get.

 

[mrglass]

What exactly is EQ used for on CharY? Focus Blast 2HKOs both (AV) Ttar and Heatran already, I can understand Flare Blitz for killing the blobs but EQ I don't get.

A few reasons. Focus Blast does nothing against Chandelure or Victini, but I feel the main issue is Focus Blast's accuracy. 2HKOint T-Tar is great, but if you miss, you are screwed.

But yeah, Charizard w/o Earthquake also gets walled to hell and back by most bulky Fire types that aren't neutrally hit by Fire Blast.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

A few reasons. Focus Blast does nothing against Chandelure or Victini, but I feel the main issue is Focus Blast's accuracy. 2HKOint T-Tar is great, but if you miss, you are screwed.

But yeah, Charizard w/o Earthquake also gets walled to hell and back by most bulky Fire types that aren't neutrally hit by Fire Blast.

Like who? Chandelure and Victini are valid concerns I guess, albeit uncommon, what other bulky fire types exist? M-CharX is the only relevant one I can think of (which can be hit for SE with Dragon Pulse if you'd really want to), I suppose that's a pretty big one since it could turn your own sun against you.


So what is the 'standard' CharY Wallbreaker set?

Naive/Hasty 252 SpA(or Atk?), 252 Spe, 4 Atk(or SpA)
Flare Blitz/Fire Blast
Earthquake(/Focus Blast)
Solarbeam
Fire Blast(/Hidden Power Ice/Dragon Pulse?)

Flare Blitz for Blobs
Earthquake for Heatran/Ttar/CharX/Chandelure/Goodra/Victini/M-Amphy
Solarbeam for water types and ground types
Fire Blast for Physical Walls not weak to Solarbeam?
HP Ice for Dnite/Zygarde.
Dragon Pulse for Dnite/Zygarde/CharX

I guess I've been too focused on that 159 SpA :/

 

[aVocado]

So what is the 'standard' CharY Wallbreaker set?

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Hasty / Mild
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Focus Blast / Dragon Pulse
- Earthquake / Roost

Fire Blast and SolarBeam are staples and shouldn't be changed no matter what. Air Slash is usually shit, Dragon Pulse is unneeded coverage imo but I can understand why it's there, Focus Blast, as you said, 2HKOs Heatran and Ttar, but is a bit unreliable compared to Earthquake, which can take on Heatran much more easily. Roost is for further wallbreaking capabilities.

 

[LittleTLK]

I suppose mixed sets (ones that include EV investment, I mean) are viable on both mega 'zards.

However, call me old fashioned, but it feels like people are wanting one poke to do way too much. I'd stick with EQ on Y over flare blitz, honestly, and no att EV investment. Is team support overrated now?

If flare blitz's purpose on Y is solely for blobs, I think it's a bad choice. Blobs can cripple you with paralysis, for one, and they're best taken on by team mates anyway. That massive recoil from it also really limits your survivability.

 

[fightnugget]

i use this set:

charizard @ charizardite y
hasty
252 spa / 4 atk / 252 spe
- fire blast
- solar beam
- earthquake
- flare blitz / hidden power ice

i'm testing flare blitz now and honestly haven't really utilized it even though in theorymon it's a great answer to blobs. i've had a lot of fun with hidden power ice. fire blast will OHKO most lando-t and gliscor in sun, but you only get 8 and it might miss. it's also a nice answer to dragonite after multiscale. with a hasty nature however MCY is super frail on the physical side so make sure you have answers to strong priority and fast physical threats. nickname it DDX. if you're running hp ice over flare blitz you can probably go timid over hasty to retain bulk since eq willl 2hko what it needs to 2hko anyway.

I suppose mixed sets (ones that include EV investment, I mean) are viable on both mega 'zards.

However, call me old fashioned, but it feels like people are wanting one poke to do way too much. I'd stick with EQ on Y over flare blitz, honestly, and no att EV investment. Is team support overrated now?

If flare blitz's purpose on Y is solely for blobs, I think it's a bad choice. Blobs can cripple you with paralysis, for one, and they're best taken on by team mates anyway. That massive recoil from it also really limits your survivability.

this actually made me remember something i realized when i was laddering yesterday which was that the only thing that i'm afraid of in facing chansey/blissey is not guessing which status move they're carrying correctly. i have counters on my team to each wish protect seismic toss status move chansey/blissey build, and charizard y doesn't do that match up as well as those pokemon do and people probably carry one of them (landorus-t, genesect, scizor, mixed aegislash, guts conkeldurr, there's more i'm not thinking of) flare blitz probably shouldn't be considered. took it off my zard.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I'm guessing it's more so blobs can't switch into you:

4 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 205-243 (28.7 - 34%)
252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey in Sun: 459-540 (64.2 - 75.6%)

That's a garanteed kill after SR.


On Chansey this doesn't work however, you'd need to Flare Blitz twice:

252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO


Played around a little bit with this set:

Hasty 252 Atk, 4 SpA, 252 Spe
Fire Blast
Solar Beam
Flare Blitz
Earthquake

and I have to say it's pretty damn good, Air Balloon Heatran was a little awkward to deal with tough as I had to hit him with a Solarbeam to pop it first, eh I suppose someone else can pop the balloon for Zard.

 

[Vengeance417]

I've run it before as a wallbreaker. Flare Blitz/Dragon Claw/ Overheat/ Roost works wonderfully as long as you have something with ground coverage.

I ran Fire Blast, Outrage, DDance and Earthquake on my mixed Mega X. It worked pretty well for me.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I ran Fire Blast, Outrage, DDance and Earthquake on my mixed Mega X. It worked pretty well for me.

Does Fire Blast hit anything harder than +1 Tough Claws boosted Flare Blitz?

Edit: I guess not:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 440-518 (131.7 - 155%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard X Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 398-470 (119.1 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Does Fire Blast hit anything harder than +1 Tough Claws boosted Flare Blitz?

Edit: I guess not:

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 440-518 (131.7 - 155%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Mega Charizard X Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 398-470 (119.1 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It saves you from killi yourself by recoil, though. I'd still run will o wisp, though.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

It saves you from killi yourself by recoil, though. I'd still run will o wisp, though.

On a DD set?

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

On a DD set?

Well, it allows a fast burn to cripple some threats or provide more set up opportunities.

 

[doughboy]

I suppose mixed sets (ones that include EV investment, I mean) are viable on both mega 'zards.

However, call me old fashioned, but it feels like people are wanting one poke to do way too much. I'd stick with EQ on Y over flare blitz, honestly, and no att EV investment. Is team support overrated now?

If flare blitz's purpose on Y is solely for blobs, I think it's a bad choice. Blobs can cripple you with paralysis, for one, and they're best taken on by team mates anyway. That massive recoil from it also really limits your survivability.

This is the set I am referring to that uses Flare Blitz, which is currently being pushed into Charizard Y's analysis right now:

name: Mixed Mega Charizard-Y
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Earthquake
move 4: Focus Blast
ability: Blaze
item: Charizadite-Y
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naughty / Naive

No weird 252 Atk / 252 SpA spreads, you absolutely need that speed. If you aren't using max attack investment on Charizard Y don't use Flare Blitz because you won't be able to break through Chansey reliably even with SR and sun in play:

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 267-315 (37.9 - 44.7%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

meanwhile max attack...

252 Atk Mega Charizard Y Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The point is that max attack Charizard-Y is a lure. It is the team support. If you do not have an accompanying sweeper that is heavily walled by Blissey and Chansey, such as Sheer Force Landorus-I, NP Thundurus-I, QD Volc, or Tail Glow Manaphy; you are much better off using the standard max SpA wallbreaker.

Char Y with flare blitz is pretty cool, but I think you should team support (Ttar/taunt user/hazards) to help take out pink blobs. Charizard Y is just a big nuke and more often than not can get easy kills everytime it comes in.

I would agree. For the large majority of teams running max SpA will get you the most mileage out of special Charizard-Y. The big appeal about Flare Blitz Charizard-Y is that it can immediately remove Chansey from the game. Chansey isn't the most removable pokemon since it has huge bulk, reliable recovery, and a status immunity. While sandstream / hail, taunt, and hazards can all wear Chansey down, consider that Chansey is most likely going to be on very defensive / stall teams that can find lots of opportunities to rebound from those options with a lot more turns in game / high amount of support to Chansey. For example, the stall teams that Chansey is on will probably have a pretty solid defensive defogger to remove hazards multiple times in the match. It is a lot more work for you, so there is a lot more room for error. Charizard-Y's immediate luring removal of Chansey minimizes that room for error on your side.

 

[mrglass]

Like who? Chandelure and Victini are valid concerns I guess, albeit uncommon, what other bulky fire types exist? M-CharX is the only relevant one I can think of (which can be hit for SE with Dragon Pulse if you'd really want to), I suppose that's a pretty big one since it could turn your own sun against you.

In addition to Victini:
Mega Charizard X
Mega Charizard Y
Entei
Arcanine
Bulky Talonflames can be annoying as well.

Magcargo and Torkoal are also bulky fires, but they have no place in OU.

I ran Fire Blast, Outrage, DDance and Earthquake on my mixed Mega X. It worked pretty well for me.

I hate running outrage this gen though, as it makes you pure Aegislash fodder.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Mega Charizard Y
Arcanine
Bulky Talonflames can be annoying as well.

Uhm Earthquake helps you beat CharY and Talonflame? Outside of hitting them when they roost that doesnt happen, besides:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 288-340 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

You probably dont wanna stay in on that.


Arcanine only if it runs Flashfire which afaik most don't:

-1 252- Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 136-160 (35.4 - 41.6%) -- 78.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine in Sun: 187-221 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 182-215 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Magcargo and Torkoal aren't really specially bulky and the former even gets hit for SE dmg by Focus Blast (as well as 4x SE by EQ) and as you said aren't seen in OU.


I guess what spread you want to run depends on if you wanna be a wallbreaker or a special monster that needs team support to get things like Chansey/Blissey and possibly Heatran/Tyranitar removed before it can sweep.

nature: Naughty / Naive

Is there any reason why Naughty / Naive is preferred over Lonely / Hasty? CharY resists most common priority moves (Bullet Punch and Mach Punch) and is neutral to Aqua Jet (assuming sun is up) you lose out on more SpDef than Def with the negative nature as CharY's special defense is considerably higher.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Uhm Earthquake helps you beat CharY and Talonflame? Outside of hitting them when they roost that doesnt happen, besides:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 288-340 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

You probably dont wanna stay in on that.


Arcanine only if it runs Flashfire which afaik most don't:

-1 252- Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 136-160 (35.4 - 41.6%) -- 78.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine in Sun: 187-221 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 182-215 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Magcargo and Torkoal aren't really specially bulky and the former even gets hit for SE dmg by Focus Blast (as well as 4x SE by EQ) and as you said aren't seen in OU.


I guess what spread you want to run depends on if you wanna be a wallbreaker or a special monster that needs team support to get things like Chansey/Blissey and possibly Heatran/Tyranitar removed before it can sweep.




Is there any reason why Naughty / Naive is preferred over Lonely / Hasty? CharY resists most common priority moves (Bullet Punch and Mach Punch) and is neutral to Aqua Jet (assuming sun is up) you lose out on more SpDef than Def with the negative nature as CharY's special defense is considerably higher.

Because charizard has more physical resists, I'd imagine.