I've toned down Blacephalon a bit so that the current walls and offensive pivots check it better. I removed Surf ( not Scald ), took away Iron Fist and Icicle Crash, and lowered the offenses and defenses a little bit. It still pressures Nihilego a lot, but it needs Modest and Stealth Rock to have a chance to OHKO a max SpD Nihilego with +1 Hydro Vortex. Flygon's Life Orb Draco Meteor now OHKOes +1 SpD Blacephalon every time. If it won and none of the new walls check it I could always nerf it more.
Depending on what walls win this will either be unbearable or perfectly balanced. Also make sure to list it as a scarf Wallbreaker, and Calm Mind sweeper as +Z-Surf can punch through non-unaware Nihilego pretty reliably (especially if Modest).
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Clean Slate
- Thread starter earl
- Start date
Voting begins in about 20 hours or so, Gravity Monkey Stitch98 The Cruelest tagging y'all to finish up (or in Cruel's case to buff) your subs.
Also comments on my subs would be cool
Also comments on my subs would be cool
If you ask for:
First, I believe some of these calcs are wrong:
Pokemon: Exploud
Roles: Special Wallbreaker, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf
Type:
Abilities: Sheer Force / Insomnia | Scrappy (HA)
Stats: 103 / 59 / 61 / 98 / 72 / 72 (465 BST)
Movepool Additions: None
Movepool Removals: None
Justification: Scrappy Boomburst is an incredibly powerful attack, and Exploud perfectly takes advantage of that. Pair this with decent coverage in Surf to hit Nihilego for good damage and Fire Blast for Steels, and this boy can go to town. Also, Nihilego has to creep 252 neutral Exploud, so that cuts away at some of its titanic special bulk. Cool!
252+ SpA Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 265-313 (77 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Scarf, Specs demolishes)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Nihilego: 99-117 (24.4 - 28.8%) -- 61.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Surf vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Nihilego: 172-204 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (This Nihilego is EV'd to outspeed Modest Exploud, and can recover before another attack and win the 1v1)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 204-240 (54.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ SpA Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 135-160 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
80+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Exploud in Grassy Terrain: 306-360 (88.1 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery (Assualt Vest Bulu can take a hit from Specs and OHKO back, while Scarf is solidly checked by Bulu)
-1 252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 277-327 (74 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ SpA Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 186-219 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Flygon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Exploud: 192-226 (55.3 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Flygon Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Exploud: 139-165 (40 - 47.5%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Flygon loses but can at least tank a single Specs Boomburst from full to deal some damage back)
252 SpA Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Raichu: 280-331 (111.5 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Exploud: 329-387 (94.8 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Raichu loses to Timid Scarf but otherwise wins if physical)
Also lmao Raichu has Magic Guard Volt Tackle wtf
252+ SpA Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cofagrigus: 253-298 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 195-231 (52.2 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ SpA Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 130-154 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
Second, Modest Scarf is not a set, you will run Timid 100% of the time to outspeed Raichu and Z-Sunny Day Tapu Bulu.
Third, Nihilego is no safe switch-in: 4 Atk Exploud Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 344-408 (84.9 - 100.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I also believe you focused a lot on Scrappy Choice Locked set but there are also Life Orb Sheer Force that is pain for defensive core:
Exploud @ Life Orb
Mild Nature / Modest Nature
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Zen Headbutt / Extrasensory
- Ice Beam / Taunt
Calcs:
4 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Exploud Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 177-211 (43.7 - 52%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Exploud Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Nihilego: 174-205 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Exploud Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 222-263 (64.7 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Exploud Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Flygon: 239-283 (65.8 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Meganium: 199-235 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Exploud Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 156-185 (45.4 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
However, I believe the submission is fine how it is since it's needs to beat its defensive counterplay, it has to predict well and that its check have already taken chip damages. If I show this set it's only because I want everybody to know it exists before voting starts.
This is one is fine.
Pokemon: Glalie
Roles: Physical Wallbreaker, Mixed Attacker, Priority, Choice Scarf, Hazard Setter
Type:
Abilities: Ice Body / Inner Focus | Protean
Stats: 70 / 110 / 70 / 80 / 70 / 80 (480 BST)
Movepool Additions: Shadow Sneak, Rock Slide, Psychic Fangs, Icicle Crash, Focus Blast, Psyshock, Power Gem, Vacuum Wave, Memento
Movepool Removals: None
Justification: While an initital typing of mono-Ice leaves it struggling to switch in and leaves it vulnerable to all hazard damage, a strong ability in Protean and an ok speed tier against bulkier teams allows it to pick and choose what it wants to beat. Additionally, access to various priority options gives it presence against offensive pokemon and Spikes nets momentum on switches. Extremely strong attacker with huge downsides.
All-Out Attacker (Glalie) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Psychic Fangs
Special Attacker (Glalie) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave
Suicide Lead (Glalie) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Shard
- Explosion252 Atk Protean Glalie Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 84-99 (24.4 - 28.7%) -- 50.3% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Glalie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cofagrigus: 103-123 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- 35.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Glalie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cofagrigus: 168-199 (48.9 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Cofagrigus Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Glalie: 186-219 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Glalie cannot break Cofag unless full Special LO but can at least set Spikes on it)
252 Atk Expert Belt Protean Glalie Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 410-485 (101.2 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Protean Glalie Psychic Fangs vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nihilego: 281-331 (69.3 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Glalie Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 317-374 (78.2 - 92.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Bops non-invested Nihilego, beats physical bulk Nihilego on the switch)
76 SpA Expert Belt Protean Glalie Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Raichu: 130-154 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Possible lure set but otherwise ass)
252 Atk Expert Belt Glalie Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 360-425 (96.2 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Expert Belt Glalie Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 168-202 (44.9 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Flygon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 196-232 (69.7 - 82.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Flygon Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 144-169 (51.2 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Flygon cannot switch into Glalie, Glalie cannot switch into Flygon)
252 Atk Expert Belt Protean Glalie Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 233-276 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
80+ Atk Tapu Bulu Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Glalie: 228-270 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery (Bulu cannot switch in 100% of the time, but beats it otherwise)
252 Atk Expert Belt Glalie Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Meganium: 221-264 (60.2 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Meganium Dragon Move (Moonblast) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 120-142 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (If running Icicle Crash Meganium cannot switch in, otherwise Meganium wins)
Basically these calcs show that, outside of Cofagrigus, Glalie can beat any mon with the right move choice. However, 4MSS!
I believe this mon has a way to high level of bulk compare to the rest of the cast. On its own it may not be broken, but with something that takes on steel and ground types and something that can absorb Knock Off, it will be unbreakable. I'm worried it becomes overcentralizing if the metagame developps.
Pokemon: Swalot
Roles: Mixed Wall, Special Wall
Type:
Abilities: Sticky Hold / Cheek Pouch | Dry Skin (HA)
Stats: 175 / 40 / 75 / 80 / 65 / 50 (485 BST)
Movepool Additions: Recycle, Dark Pulse, Snarl
Movepool Removals: None
Justification: A truly versatile defensive pokemon that can fill in any voids left in a defensive core. Overlap with Nihilego as a Poison-type, you say? Nonsense! In fact, Levitate Nihilego+ Dry Skin Swalot can be a potential core, sharing no weaknesses and covering each other for Psychic+Fire and Ground+Water type weaknesses, respectively. Sticky Hold ensures Leftovers remains while Cheek Pouch+Sitrus Recycle allows for big recovery (and Belch lol). Dry Skin adds even more immunities to the mix at the cost of a psuedo-weakness.
Mixed Wall (Swalot) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
Calm Nature
EVs: 104 HP / 92 Def / 76 SpA / 236 SpD
- Sludge Bomb / Belch
- Dark Pulse
- Recycle
- Toxic / Yawn
This Swalot set blanket checks a wide swath of the current meta while still be susceptible to very strong hits (Banded Bulu's Flare Blitz) and Knock Off (rip recovery).
This set's EVs seems pretty damn wonky at first look, but the EVs have a purpose. 104 HP + 92 Defense allows Swalot to avoid the 2HKO from Raichu's Wild Charge and Banded Bulu's Wood Hammer after rocks, 76 Special Attack means -1 Sludge Bomb always 2HKOes offensive Flygon and 2HKOes standard Meganium, and that -1 Belch cleanly 2HKOes Utility Flygon. 104 HP + 236 Special Defense alongside a Calm nature means that Specs Flygon cannot 2HKO with Moonblast after rocks (Draco Meteor is stalled out due to the ~58% recovery from Cheek Pouch Sitrus).Offensively:
76 SpA Swalot Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Meganium: 186-218 (50.6 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 76 SpA Swalot Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 158-188 (50.8 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 76 SpA Swalot Belch vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 210-248 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
76 SpA Swalot Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 68 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 132-156 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery (Chipped, boy has no recovery)
76 SpA Swalot Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 152-180 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery (Bulu is eventually poisoned/runs out of grassy terrain/runs out of synthesis)
76 SpA Swalot Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 212-252 (68.1 - 81%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery
76 SpA Swalot Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 118-139 (47 - 55.3%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO
76 SpA Swalot Sludge Bomb vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 79-94 (31.4 - 37.4%) -- 87% chance to 3HKO
Defensively:
252 Atk Meganium Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot: 182-216 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Meganium Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot: 328-386 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Even when not at +2 Meganium can mostly (depending on a low roll with rocks on hit one)/ high rolls with no rocks) beat Swalot with an EQ into Tectonic Rage, as the first Earthquake will not trigger the Sitrus Berry)
252 SpA Choice Specs Flygon Moonblast vs. 104 HP / 236+ SpD Swalot: 192-226 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Flygon Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 104 HP / 236+ SpD Swalot: 350-414 (67.6 - 80%) -- not a KO (Flygon can't do anything but U-turn out)
Assualt Vest: 192 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot in Grassy Terrain: 118-139 (22.8 - 26.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
192 Atk Tapu Bulu Fire Punch vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot: 99-117 (19.1 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
SpDef SD: +2 0 Atk Tapu Bulu Fire Punch vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot: 160-189 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
Band: 252 Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot in Grassy Terrain: 186-220 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Flare Blitz vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot: 249-294 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery (Counters more defensive Bulus but struggles with Band)
252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Wild Charge vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot: 187-220 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 104 HP / 236+ SpD Swalot: 153-181 (29.5 - 35%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Raichu Wild Charge vs. 104 HP / 92 Def Swalot: 214-253 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Solidly checks both physical and special LO pivot Raichu, only consistently beats physical Z-Celebrate if rocks aren't up. Loses to NP)
It's maybe a little bit to bulky compared to the other wall but otherwise it's perfect.
Pokemon: Carracosta
Roles: Physical Wall, Mixed Wall, Hazard Setter, Priority, Weather Setter (Sand), Shell Smash Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Sturdy / Solid Rock | Sand Stream (HA)
Stats: 74 / 98 / 123 / 83 / 85 / 22 (485 BST)
Movepool Additions: Bullet Punch, Slack Off
Movepool Removals: Earth Power, Earthquake
Justification: What's a pokemon metagame without bulky Steels? This strong Steel/Water type occupies several niches while also serving as a potent general wall. Firstly, it has access to fairly strong STAB priority, important to chip threats such as Raichu. Secondly, it can set up Sandstorm if it chooses to forgo Solid Rock, dealing chip damage and supporting teammates. Thirdly, it can abuse its bulk to use Shell Smash and aim for a surprise sweep by virtue of an... ok speed tier at +2 (outspeeds base 93 and below if +Spe, base 80 and below if not) and access to dual STAB priorities. In general, however, it acts as a grade A wall with great natural physical bulk and passable special bulk if invested. Scald and Knock Off alongside Stealth Rock further solidifies the utility of this ancient turtle.
Not sure if Swalot is that much more bulky than our other walls, Nihilego has more proficient special bulk and completely reliable recovery (Swalot’s functions on being below 50% and being vulnerable to Knock which blows as a dark resist or passively recovering with Leftovers) alongside a stupid speed tier for a wall:
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Swalot: 152-179 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Nihilego: 103-122 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
And physically, yeah, I think a point reduction could be justified as a fully physical Swalot walls any physical options we have a the moment. 65 defense makes it much more vulnerable to offensive Bulu sets and forces more investment overall. I'll do this, it should be less of an everything check due to this.
Carracosta is almost like a physical Nihilego with how its bulk works out, it's quite vunerable specially despite its type being geared towards special walling. But then again its a defensive steel so it'll be top tier anyhow because the Steel type is too good
I think I'm gonna shelve Exploud and sub something else
Last edited:
Finished my subs, do you guys have any thoughts on them? Also, sorry for the lackluster descriptions, I had to do this fast.
Pokemon: Liepard
Role(s): Physical Wallbreaker
Type:
Abilities: Limber / Unburden / Prankster
Stat Distribution: 55 / 115 / 60 / 50 / 60 / 110 (BST: 450)
Movepool Additions: Mach Punch, Superpower, Brick Break, Topsy-Turvy
Movepool Removals: —
Custom Elements: —
Justification: Priority spammer, with Fake Out and Mach Punch. It can break through Nihilego, and can easily revenge kill Raichu. It also has some utility options within U-turn, Taunt and Topsy-Turvy (with prankster). I guess you could also do an unburden set with grassy seed.
Pokemon: Landorus
Role(s): Wallbreaker
Type:
Abilities: Unnerve / Aerilate
Stat Distribution: 70 / 97 / 90 / 118 / 70 / 70 (BST: 515)
Movepool Additions: Hyper Voice, Taunt
Movepool Removals: Hammer Arm, Outrage, Brick Break, U-turn, Superpower, Focus Blast
Custom Elements: —
Justification: Really powerful mixed wallbreaker with a lot of special coverage. It obliterates Meganium and Tapu Bulu and it can work its way against Cofagrigus, but it's hard-countered by Levitate Nihilego. 118 Spa/97 Atk + Aerilate is something you can't really laugh at, but its 70 speed makes it really easy to be revenge killed by raichu or even full SpA Flygon.
Pokemon: Mamoswine
Role(s): Wall, Hail Setter,
Type:
Abilities: Boulder-Basher* / Snow Warning / Poison Heal
Stat Distribution: 120 / 75 / 80 / 75 / 90 / 40 (BST: 480)
Movepool Additions: Aurora Veil, Slack Off, Head Smash
Movepool Removals: —
Custom Elements: Boulder-Basher — Thick Fat clone for Rock and Steel
Justification: How can you make a rock/ice pokemon with 480 base stats viable? Give it 3 OP abilities! With those new tools, Mamoswine can run an big variety of different sets. It can pose Aurora Veil, it can go for a Poiso Healn/Substitute Stall set, and it could also go offensive, maybe even under trick room. Overall a pretty strong pokemon, but yeah, it's still rock/ice.
Pokemon: Flaaffy (Eviolite combatible)
Roles: Defensive Pivot, Cleric
Type:
Abilities: Natural Cure / Static / Volt Absorb
Stat Distribution: 100 / 55 / 80 / 70 / 70 / 40 (BST: 395)
Movepool Additions: Dazzling Gleam, Wish, Heal Bell, Earth Power, Moonlight
Movepool Removals: —
Custom Elements: —
Justification: Electric/Fairy is a typing that I found really interesting for a defensive pivot. It has only two weaknesses and a great number of interesting resistances (and even one immunity!). Unfortunately, in normal play, all fairy/electric mons are either offensive (Koko) or not viable in most metagames (Dedenne). I decided to merge this interesting typing with another underrepresented concept, an eviolite user. And from this union is born Flaaffy! With great supportive movepool with Thunder Wave, Volt Switch and some new things like Wish and Heal Bell, Flaaffy could work as a really potent pivot. Its abilities even furter reinforce this role: Natural Cure adds more value to switching out and Volt Absorb gives it more switch-in opportunities. Flaaffy is still far from invinvible, since it would be pretty much walled by Nihilego, but it would be an interesting addition to the cast.
Just to mention, I inverted its defense and its special defense, so it could tank more from Liepard.
Liepard and Lando seem fine, Liepard packs nice utility against set-up and Lando gives us an offensive rocks setter.
Flaaffy is a resub and I still think its cool
Rock/Ice is a supremely bad defensive typing no matter how you look at it, especially with neither Rock nor Steel being particularly prevelant attacking types and with Mamo being complete Bulu food. If you are going to try to make mamo work I think Ground/Ice would still be best, hard counters Raichu (especially if you give it some way to work around fighting type) and has more resistances and no 4x weaknesses compared to Rock/Ice.
Also The Cruelest if you have time make sure to label your Duosion as a Stallbreaker because of Magic Guard and Calm Mind (like Reuni in OU)
I modified Mamoswine, and added a lot of role labels
Metagross has a great typing based on the current walls and pivots we have. Cofagrigus and Tapu Bulu already make nice checks to it. Unfortunately Iron FIst does boost Meteor Mash, which seems to not be what you intended and would probably push it over the edge as I think it comfotably 2HKOs Cofagrigus with a Band.Finished my last sub, any thoughts?
Name of the Pokemon: Metagross
Role(s): Physical Wallbreaker, Choice Band user, Agility Sweeper
Type: Psychic / Steel
Abilities: Clear Body / Iron Fist
Stat Distribution: 80 / 125 / 105 / 65 / 65 / 75
Movepool Additions: N/A
Movepool Removals: Earthquake
Custom Elements: N/A
Justification: Did someone say discount Mega Metagross? Even if you didn't, here it is. Sky high attack and good physical bulk make Metagross a powerful wallbreaker, especially taking advantage of Choice Band and Iron Fist. Iron Fist is similar to Tough Claws, but doesn't boost the most spammable STAB attacks like Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt. It does boost useful moves like Bullet Punch, Hammer arm, and Ice Punch though. A reliance on contact moves and low Special defense make Metagross vulnerable to Cofagrigus. Metagross doesn't want to use it's bad SpA anymore meaning it will have trouble killing certain threats that it's physical coverage can't break.
The only one I'm concerned about is Swalot. Having such a high HP, it can really afford to run a spread like 80 HP / 252 Def / 176 SpD Bold, which, compared to Cofagrigus with a 252 HP / 252 Def Bold spread, is about 12% less physically bulky and 60% more specially bulky. It's also immune to Poison status, and has good recovery. Cheek Pouch + Sitrus Berry is even better than Gluttony and while it may have some disadvantages over Recover it also has some advantages, namely the fact that the first one activates without you needing to use a turn for it, making it a bit like a recovery credit card.
The other subs all look cool, Carracosta in particular looks like it would form a great stall core with Nihilego by providing it Sandstorm support and resisting its weaknesses, with Carracosta setting rocks and Nihilego providing spin support.
I'm a little troubled by Liepard because it can revenge kill both offensive pivots and 2HKO everything else but Cofagrigus with a Life Orb set. Knock Off / Play Rough / Superpower / Sucker Punch can accomplish this, but Gunk Shot or Taunt could be run to help it wreck Tapu Bulu or Cofagrigus. I get that it's quite the glass cannon, but the high speed and priority make it really powerful against offense despite also being a strong wallbreaker. All three abilities also seem primarily helpful for dealing with fast teams, rather than bulky ones.
For Landorus don't forget that it learns Psychic and Calm Mind, which probably threatens Nihilego a lot especially considering that it can't hit back very hard.
The walls look cool - Flaffy has stellar defenses but is a bit passive to balance it out, while Mamoswine is an interesting concept to turn a bad defensive typing into a wall. Aurora Veil on it is an interesting idea and I like that you went with a low speed because otherwise it will likely be pidgeonholed into a Veil / Stealth Rock setter for hyper offense teams. It could probably afford to be less offensively passive IMO, as it wouldn't be remotely too strong because it's slow and has many exploitable weaknesses. One of the benefits of its typing is strong attacking STAB types. Edit: just realized it's Ice / Ground now, although my comments are probably still somewhat valid for that typing.
As far as my own submissions I decided to remove Calm Mind from Blacephalon so that guessing its set isn't quite as unforgiving. It now has immediate power on one side of the spectrum and the ability to boost on the other, but not both on the same side.
Last edited:
I don't think that's necessary, Blace is 4x weak to rocks and very frail so setting up a Calm Mind without dying is quite difficult, plus Choice Specs achieves the same power with less risk (at the cost of Z-Scald).
As for Swalot I'm keeping an eye on him, I'm more basing his relative power off of Nihilego (as Cofag is the slightest bit underpowered in comparison and may stand to get a buff after playtesting). I'm entertaining the thought of removing Recycle- Pinch Berry+Cheek Pouch is virtually a full heal at the cost of consistent recovery and makes Cheek Pouch less of an auto pick.
Also if anyone here has experience with making custom damage calculators a Clean Slate damage calculator (akin to the Eternal Pokemon calculator) would be lovely for future submissions.
I didn't knew it could learn play rough, wow... I'm removing this right away. I'll also change Limber for Immunity since toxic is definitely more common on walls.
Thanks for pointing that out. I've decided to remove it because of these calcs:
96+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 187-222 (54.3 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Cofagrigus Dark Pulse vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 330-390 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Cofagrigus Foul Play vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 236-278 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Metagross can always 2HKO Cofagrigus so Cofagrigus can't switch in. Cofagrigus has a decent chance of OHKOing Metagross with Dark Pulse made even better by the Flinch chance, but I don't it should have to rely on RNG to beat Metagross.
Miscellaneous calcs related to Metagross (without Meteor mash):
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 127-150 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 175-207 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 504-594 (162 - 190.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Flygon Earth Power vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 264-312 (73.3 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Fair enough, I was on the fence about that so I'll keep it on.
I would definitely agree about Cofagrigus. If you do remove Recycle it would probably be fine to give it its old Def back or a new toy of some kind. Just be careful not to over-nerf it.
Finished ‘em!
Comments are highly appreciated :)
95/95 special bulk is quite adequate in this meta, and with investment this could be a very difficult special wall to take down (Ground and Fighting tend to be physical) and would most likely overshadow its role as a physical wall. A reduction in special defense would probably be wise, and I don't think Spikes is necessary on this guy, setting Rocks is already enough utility.Bastiodon 2.0: This is (not) a resub.
Name of the Pokemon: Bastiodon
Role(s): Physical Wall, Hazard setter, TR Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Sturdy / Heavy Metal | HA: Sand Force
Stat Distribution:
HP 95
ATK 100
DEF 120
SPA 50
SPD 95
SPE 30
BST 490
Weight: 620.0 kg
Movepool Additions: Gyro Ball, Dragon Hammer, Dragon Tail, Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Shore Up, Spikes, Pursuit
Movepool Removals: Rock Blast, Smack Down
Custom Elements: none
Justification: Another defensive pivot, physical this time. With a not-explored-yet type combo, a very strong one, it can function as many roles as setup sweeper, hazard setter, TR sweeper, tank. I gave it some strong STABs to give it have some offensive presence and versatility, but it can also use its two other abilities, of which Sturdy may be useful for a hazard setter set and Heavy Metal for a set with Heavy Slam (warning: any Low Kick can OHKO it).
Seems fine, a defensive Ground-type is always important in order to keep volt switch at bay. However remove Sheer Force, that ability will totally skew it towards the offensive (better special attacker than Nidoking with very strong STABs and coverage).
Name of the Pokemon: Nidoqueen
Role(s): Special Wall, Hazard setter, Support, Cleric, Calm Mind Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Serene Grace / Rivalry | HA: Sheer Force
Stat Distribution:
HP 85
ATK 75
DEF 85
SPA 95
SPD 120
SPE 70
BST 510
Movepool Additions: Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam, Draining Kiss, Moonlight, Misty Terrain, Wish, Heal Bell, Spikes, Calm Mind
Movepool Removals: Poison Sting, Poison Tail, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Venom Drench, Venoshock, Toxic Spikes, Bite, Crunch, Flatter, Hone Claws, Pursuit, Quash, Sucker Punch, Thief, Throat Chop
Custom Elements: none
Justification: 2 immunities for a strong Cleric with some very useful utility moves, such as Stealth Rock, Spikes and Moonlight. It also has Calm Mind to take advantage of its strong STABs, Moonblast and Earth Power, a combo that very few typing combination totally resists, such as Steel/Poison/Fire-Flying or Steel/Poison/Fire types with Levitate.
Interesting concept, Dark does lack really powerful attacks and Brutal Hammer is a nice custom move that can see use in future submissions. However Sheer Force alongside STAB and Coverage such as Crunch, Elemental Punches, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, Flamethrower/Fire Blast, etc allows it to abuse recoil-free LO on the physical side (with Crunch, EQ, Boost, Sucker/Coverage) while also hitting hard specially (has the same special attack as vanilla Nidoking who is a powerful special attacker even in OU.
Name of the Pokemon: Nidoking
Role(s): Physical Wallbreaker, Hazard setter, Setup Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Intimidate / Rivalry | HA: Sheer Force
Stat Distribution:
HP 85
ATK 120
DEF 95
SPA 85
SPD 75
SPE 70
BST 510
Movepool Additions: Knock Off, Bite, Crunch, Pursuit, Spikes, Dragon Dance, Swords Dance
Movepool Removals: Head Smash, Poison Sting, Poison Tail, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Venom Drench, Venoshock, Toxic Spikes
Custom Elements: Brutal Hammer (Dark-type | Physical | 130 BP | 90% Accuracy | Lowers user’s Attack by 2. )
Justification: Somehow similar to Colossoil in CAP, this strong monster can setup and become fast and dangerous. It also has Sucker Punch’s conditional priority and strong STABs, such as Earthquake and its new Dark-type physical copy of Draco Meteor.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 230-270 (67 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Too powerful for my taste, replace sheer force with a different ability such as Iron Fist or just a weak flavor ability because Intimidate is strong enough.
252 SpA Delphox Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Nihilego: 238-282 (58.7 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Name of the Pokemon: Delphox
Role(s): Special Wallbreaker, Calm Mind Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Blaze | HA: Pixilate
Stat Distribution:
HP 79
ATK 66
DEF 63
SPA 127
SPD 99
SPE 86
BST 520
Movepool Additions: Moonblast, Moonlight, Draining Kiss, Fairy Wind, Misty Terrain, Hyper Voice, Heal Bell, Nasty Plot
Movepool Removals: Switcheroo, Low Kick, Power-Up Punch
Custom Elements: none
Justification: Setup and sweep teams with strong STABs, such as Overheat, Pixilate Hyper Voice and Psychic.
+1 252 SpA Delphox Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Nihilego: 186-220 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Based on these calcs I'd recommend removing Psyshock and bringing its Special Attack stat down to 123 so that a +1 psychic cannot OHKO without LO or Z.
Tag me once you've edited these so I can open voting
I like these all in theory but they are probably too strong.
None of these things would break it on its own, but all together it can just wall / hit back / sweep / set up hazards all like a champ.
Anyway, I hope that helps. The concepts behind these are cool, I think they just have a bit too many things going for them in combination. Also these are just suggestions and you don't have to use them!
This has too much versatility I think. 95/120/95 defenses is titanic, especially with poison immunity and reliable recovery. 95 HP and 95 SpD is downright bulky if invested, and while very strong neutral Specs hits might still take it down with that typing it's going to be a very bulky mixed wall. Gyro Ball off of 100 base Atk is also really scary, and while it's not totally reliable a 150 BP attack coming from 100 base Attack is stronger than most of the current wallbreaker subs. Both of those things make a Curse set really scary, as I'm not sure what can break Curse / Gyro Ball / Earthquake / Slack Off once it gets going. Cofagrigus can burn it but it can't really beat it. Spikes is also extremely good on such a bulky mon.Bastiodon 2.0: This is (not) a resub.
Name of the Pokemon: Bastiodon
Role(s): Physical Wall, Hazard setter, TR Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Sturdy / Heavy Metal | HA: Sand Force
Stat Distribution:
HP 95
ATK 100
DEF 120
SPA 50
SPD 95
SPE 30
BST 490
Weight: 620.0 kg
Movepool Additions: Gyro Ball, Dragon Hammer, Dragon Tail, Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Shore Up, Spikes, Pursuit
Movepool Removals: Rock Blast, Smack Down
Custom Elements: none
Justification: Another defensive pivot, physical this time. With a not-explored-yet type combo, a very strong one, it can function as many roles as setup sweeper, hazard setter, TR sweeper, tank. I gave it some strong STABs to give it have some offensive presence and versatility, but it can also use its two other abilities, of which Sturdy may be useful for a hazard setter set and Heavy Metal for a set with Heavy Slam (warning: any Low Kick can OHKO it).
None of these things would break it on its own, but all together it can just wall / hit back / sweep / set up hazards all like a champ.
This one also has way too much offensive presence. A Modest Life Orb Sheer Force set is comparably threatening to the wallbreaker subs in this thread. Sheer Force should probably go as its effects in combination with a Life Orb and Nidoqueen's massive special movepool would make it very hard to not be a wallbreaker. Serene Grace Moonblast is already an incredibly useful tool and with solid typing, reliable recovery, and a wide support movepool, I think this could afford to hit a bit less hard.
Name of the Pokemon: Nidoqueen
Role(s): Special Wall, Hazard setter, Support, Cleric, Calm Mind Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Serene Grace / Rivalry | HA: Sheer Force
Stat Distribution:
HP 85
ATK 75
DEF 85
SPA 95
SPD 120
SPE 70
BST 510
Movepool Additions: Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam, Draining Kiss, Moonlight, Misty Terrain, Wish, Heal Bell, Spikes, Calm Mind
Movepool Removals: Poison Sting, Poison Tail, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Venom Drench, Venoshock, Toxic Spikes, Bite, Crunch, Flatter, Hone Claws, Pursuit, Quash, Sucker Punch, Thief, Throat Chop
Custom Elements: none
Justification: 2 immunities for a strong Cleric with some very useful utility moves, such as Stealth Rock, Spikes and Moonlight. It also has Calm Mind to take advantage of its strong STABs, Moonblast and Earth Power, a combo that very few typing combination totally resists, such as Steel/Poison/Fire-Flying or Steel/Poison/Fire types with Levitate.
This guy seems more balanced, as it doesn't have as many physical moves to use with Sheer Force ( although keep in mind that Nidoking is a wallbreaker in UU using its 85 base SpA ). I'm a little more skeptical of the setup moves, though. Dragon Dance outspeeds everything so far at +1 and Swords Dance boosts an incredibly strong priority attack. These setup sets might not be unstoppable but this pokemon already has wallbreaking power and superb coverage, alongside reasonable bulk.
Name of the Pokemon: Nidoking
Role(s): Physical Wallbreaker, Hazard setter, Setup Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Intimidate / Rivalry | HA: Sheer Force
Stat Distribution:
HP 85
ATK 120
DEF 95
SPA 85
SPD 75
SPE 70
BST 510
Movepool Additions: Knock Off, Bite, Crunch, Pursuit, Spikes, Dragon Dance, Swords Dance
Movepool Removals: Head Smash, Poison Sting, Poison Tail, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Venom Drench, Venoshock, Toxic Spikes
Custom Elements: Brutal Hammer (Dark-type | Physical | 130 BP | 90% Accuracy | Lowers user’s Attack by 2. )
Justification: Somehow similar to Colossoil in CAP, this strong monster can setup and become fast and dangerous. It also has Sucker Punch’s conditional priority and strong STABs, such as Earthquake and its new Dark-type physical copy of Draco Meteor.
I see Leonard has just posted and I don't much have much to add to what he said about this. It is still extremely strong in general with a huge SpA and 110 and 108 BP STAB moves. It has considerable defensive utility on top of that, and not so bad speed.
Name of the Pokemon: Delphox
Role(s): Special Wallbreaker, Calm Mind Sweeper
Type:
Abilities: Blaze | HA: Pixilate
Stat Distribution:
HP 79
ATK 66
DEF 63
SPA 127
SPD 99
SPE 86
BST 520
Movepool Additions: Moonblast, Moonlight, Draining Kiss, Fairy Wind, Misty Terrain, Hyper Voice, Heal Bell, Nasty Plot
Movepool Removals: Switcheroo, Low Kick, Power-Up Punch
Custom Elements: none
Justification: Setup and sweep teams with strong STABs, such as Overheat, Pixilate Hyper Voice and Psychic.
Anyway, I hope that helps. The concepts behind these are cool, I think they just have a bit too many things going for them in combination. Also these are just suggestions and you don't have to use them!
Last edited:
I agree. Nidoqueen from Type Optimization can also abuse Sheer Force with Life Orb despite the lower than average Special Attack. It showcases how powerful Sheer Force can be when you know that it stacks with Life Orb and suppress Life Orb's downside (saps HP away after each successful hit).
I'd recommend Stitch98 to remove Sheer Force or replace it with a much less useful Ability.
leonard (from big bang theory) Samtendo09 done, I did some changes here and there.
Oh lol can't really vote until I sort the mons into their respective categories, my bad
Wallbreaker 1 (Physical or physically biased mixed)
Samtendo's Wigglytuff
Brodaha's Metagross
Gravity Monkey's Liepard
Anaconja's Arcanine
Origin0's Poliwrath
Scoopapa's Onix
Leonard's Glalie
Jucherz' Guzzlord
Stitch's Nidoking
The Cruelest's Crobat
Tuther's Keldeo
Wallbreaker 2 (Special or specially biased mixed)
Samtendo's Camerupt
Brodaha's Magnezone
Gravity Monkey's Landorus
Anaconja's Clefable
Origin0's Pidgeot
Scoopapa's Blacephalon
Leonard's Cloyster
Jucherz' Charizard
Stitch's Delphox
The Cruelest's Duosion
Tuther's Noctowl
Wall 1 (Physical or physically biased mixed)
Brodaha's Buzzwole
Gravity Monkey's Flaaffy
Anaconja's Kyurem
Origin0's Forretress
Scoopapa's Registeel
Leonard's Carracosta
Jucherz' Sudowoodo
Stitch's Bastidon
Tuther's Mawile
Wall 2 (Special or specially biased mixed)
Brodaha's Claydol
Gravity Monkey's Mamoswine
Anaconja's Malamar
Origin0's Gastrodon
Scoopapa's Milotic
Leonard's Swalot
Jucherz' Vespiquen
Stitch's Nidoqueen
Tuther's Togedemaru
Once again, a big thanks to all of those who have subbed and also to those who commented on and helped improve other's subs, this is going great! Here are my votes:
Wallbreaker #1: Brodaha, Jucherz, Scoopapa
Wallbreaker #2: Leonard, Samtendo, Gravity Monkey
Wall #1: Tuther, Anaconja, Gravity Monkey
Wall #2: Leonard (Swalot is my child), Origin0, Stitch
Wallbreaker 1 (Physical or physically biased mixed)
Samtendo's Wigglytuff
Brodaha's Metagross
Gravity Monkey's Liepard
Anaconja's Arcanine
Origin0's Poliwrath
Scoopapa's Onix
Leonard's Glalie
Jucherz' Guzzlord
Stitch's Nidoking
The Cruelest's Crobat
Tuther's Keldeo
Wallbreaker 2 (Special or specially biased mixed)
Samtendo's Camerupt
Brodaha's Magnezone
Gravity Monkey's Landorus
Anaconja's Clefable
Origin0's Pidgeot
Scoopapa's Blacephalon
Leonard's Cloyster
Jucherz' Charizard
Stitch's Delphox
The Cruelest's Duosion
Tuther's Noctowl
Wall 1 (Physical or physically biased mixed)
Brodaha's Buzzwole
Gravity Monkey's Flaaffy
Anaconja's Kyurem
Origin0's Forretress
Scoopapa's Registeel
Leonard's Carracosta
Jucherz' Sudowoodo
Stitch's Bastidon
Tuther's Mawile
Wall 2 (Special or specially biased mixed)
Brodaha's Claydol
Gravity Monkey's Mamoswine
Anaconja's Malamar
Origin0's Gastrodon
Scoopapa's Milotic
Leonard's Swalot
Jucherz' Vespiquen
Stitch's Nidoqueen
Tuther's Togedemaru
Once again, a big thanks to all of those who have subbed and also to those who commented on and helped improve other's subs, this is going great! Here are my votes:
Wallbreaker #1: Brodaha, Jucherz, Scoopapa
Wallbreaker #2: Leonard, Samtendo, Gravity Monkey
Wall #1: Tuther, Anaconja, Gravity Monkey
Wall #2: Leonard (Swalot is my child), Origin0, Stitch
Last edited:
Wallbreaker #1: Samtendo09, Jucherz, Gravity Monkey
Wallbreaker #2: Leonard, Anaconja, Brodaha
Wall #1: Gravity Monkey, Origin0, Tuthur1
Wall #2: leonard (from big bang theory), Scoopapa, Tuthur
Wallbreaker #2: Leonard, Anaconja, Brodaha
Wall #1: Gravity Monkey, Origin0, Tuthur1
Wall #2: leonard (from big bang theory), Scoopapa, Tuthur
Last edited: