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Community Create-A-Team: Heracross (OU)
- Thread starter Stagnant
- Start date
- Status
I think Latias would be a good addition for the team because not only is it naturally bulky, but it also brings a much needed fire resist to the team and can make a nice Scizor lure if you run Hp Fire.
I'm a little confused, this is supposed to be hyper offense?
if it is, I suggest pairing it with the standard hyper offense mons. I would definitely support LO gyarados and agiligross as additions. agiligross is often walled by things like rotom and zapdos which it can weaken in preparation for hera. LO gyara can set up on things that would revenge kill hera.
assuming this is going to be hyper offense, I see 2 good leads: ds azelf and encore infernape. they both set up SR and ease the set up of your sweepers.
if it is, I suggest pairing it with the standard hyper offense mons. I would definitely support LO gyarados and agiligross as additions. agiligross is often walled by things like rotom and zapdos which it can weaken in preparation for hera. LO gyara can set up on things that would revenge kill hera.
assuming this is going to be hyper offense, I see 2 good leads: ds azelf and encore infernape. they both set up SR and ease the set up of your sweepers.
the nature of the team is Balanced, with Hera as a wall breaker, however after testing the team with varios team members i feel that Scarflatias helps a lot and better than scarfzone, everytime i wanted to trap a steel they exploted and killed me, and scizor simply U-Turned away, porygon2 was a great Sala,Gyara, Tran counter and to spread para all over but in today metagame the lack of speed makes him sometime useless, also i found this team in a need of a status absorber and a t-wave absorber, Sleep Talk Champ was a great adittion switching into Toxic/T-Wave and just rest and attack, but the most problems i had was with DDers, nothing is fast enough to kill them, mostly something that setup for speed is a problem, SubAgility Empoleon swept me when my Scarfed poke was killed, also i found quite difficult to set up with Hera outside of stall so probably a Choice Band/Life Orb and abusing the T-Spikes that you may found on the way fir him better, also tested Kingdra and fit great the team if he is suppose to be the star of the show because he acts a wall breaker and under the rain is better than hera however is usefull when i faced a stall hail team, killing Abomasnow and seting up the rain so Stallrein didn't function at all, so after testing with some of the candidates i feel that:
Jirachi (Awesome Lead)
Machamp (ResTalk set works better)
Heracross (Choiced may fit better)
Zapdos
Latias (Revenge Killer works good)
Flygon/Kingdra
So maybe replace Zapdos with say Mamoswine for priority to kill DDers, use latias as a support and flygon as revange killer could work better
Jirachi (Awesome Lead)
Machamp (ResTalk set works better)
Heracross (Choiced may fit better)
Zapdos
Latias (Revenge Killer works good)
Flygon/Kingdra
So maybe replace Zapdos with say Mamoswine for priority to kill DDers, use latias as a support and flygon as revange killer could work better
For the record, Kingdra is not the only pokemon that can change the weather. In fact, most pokemon can change the weather, including the majority of the suggested teammates. Some people are rather fond of having Latias on this team and Latias can change the weather as well as support with Thunder Wave.
Perhaps something like: T-Wave/Dragon Pulse/Rain Dance/Thunder ?
since heatran seems to be a huge threat to this team by most people's standards, i think it should probably use surf over dragon pulse in the above set; and if we're going to utilize thunder, we may be able to drop thunder wave for another attack, reflect, or recover.
Hmm, no posts in a few days. Well, I've been playing around with the team a bit and it's working pretty well.
The team I've been using is:
Lead Jirachi@Leftovers (Stealth Rock/Wish/Body Slam/Iron Head)
I haven't been too impressed with Jirachi to be honest, it spread paralysis very well, but even with a spread of 252 Hp/252 Def it still takes almost 50% from a Metagross Earthquake and is forced out by a lot of leads. Feigning Scarf against Azelf and Aerodactyl leads is fun, though. (I haven't seen too many of those unfortunately)
Machamp@Leftovers (Substitute/Dynamicpunch/Stone Edge/payback)
Machamp has been performing okay, it does a good job of luring in the opponents ghost types (though Heracross doesn't have much of a problem with them because I run Night Slash). I defiantly agree with sir_arthur that Restalk Machamp is a better idea here because Machamp does go down sooner than I'd like sometimes. I'm probably going to make that change now with my team with Dynamicpunch and Ice punch as my attacks because I've been seeing a hell of a lot more Gliscor for some reason.
Zapdos@Leftovers (Thunderbolt/Roost/Heat Wave/Thunder Wave)
With the team I'm currently running, Zapdos is pretty much my only defence against things like Lucario and Scizor and its been doing a pretty good job at keeping them at bay, but the Stealth Rock weakness really hinders him (I originally had U-turn on Jirachi but I switched to Wish for this very reason.) I've considered Rotom-A in this slot but lack on recovery outside of rest and the fact it can be easily pursuited by Tyranitar, especially when resting put me off. Thoughts on this?
Heracross@Flame Orb (Swords Dance/Night Slash/Facade/Close Combat)
Well, I don't really need to expain about this guy, but it does have a difficult time sweeping if I'm unable to paralyse the faster members of my opponents team (it's not always that simple!). Fortunately, it doesn't always need a Swords Dance boost to sweep though a weakened team thanks to Flame Orb + Guts.
Porygon2@Leftovers (Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Ice Beam/Recover)
Porygon2 is here to counter things that the rest of the team have trouble with: Gyarados, Jolteon, DD Salamence, Heatran etc. Not much else to say really, it helps spread paralysis and with decent special defence it can also do fairly well against the weaker special attackers (Tracing Magnet pull and killing off a Magnezone, for example. Since Magnezone has no recovery Porygon2 should come out on top if Magnezone lacks Toxic).
Latias@Life Orb (Grass Knot/Recover/Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power Fire)
Well, I noticed that someone said that this team needed a way to either lure or trap and kill Scizor a few pages back and I couldn't really see Magnezone fitting onto this team so I tried out this Latias that I saw in Jumpluff/EW's RMT and it has been working quite well Hidden power Fire is quite uncommon on Latias so Scizor often switches in to be Ohko'd, Tyranitar is a little harder to deal with if it's the Specially Bulky varient since it can survive a Dragon pulse + Grass Knot, the reason Grass Knot is used over Surf is because it deals slightly more damage to Tyranitar and it also maims Swampert who can be annoying when it comes in to absorb Thunder Waves.
So, that's the team and like I said it's been performing fairly well but there are a few pokemon that give the team a problem that I thought of off the top of my head.
Infernape - Latias is the team's only defence against Infernape. The rest of the team is either 1 or 2 hit Ko'd by Mixape and it's often paired up with either CB Scizor (deals a hefty amount with Bullet punch so it's still a threat even though I run Hp Fire) or Tyranitar who can survive a Dragon pulse + Grass Knot if it has a Specially Bulky Spread.
CB Scizor - Zapdos (and maybe Jirachi) are the only team members that will can really take U-turn and Zapdos is already losing 25% of its health every time it switches in. Latias does make a nice lure for it but it can still cause problems.
Specially Defensive CB Tyranitar - For the reasons mentioned above, Resttalk Machamp should help this though.
Starmie - Annoying because it can hit everything on the team hard. Latias can beat it if I can get her in on anything that isn't Ice Beam but she'll still take quite a bit of damage.
SubToxic Heatran - Hate this thing. Usually comes in on Zapdos and I can't Thunder Wave it because it's faster and can Substitute to Guard from Status. If I let it get a substitute up then I'm forced to let Porygon2 poisened. :(
Okay, well. Hopefully this will spark some discussion because this took quite a while to write :p. Thoughts?
The team I've been using is:
Lead Jirachi@Leftovers (Stealth Rock/Wish/Body Slam/Iron Head)
I haven't been too impressed with Jirachi to be honest, it spread paralysis very well, but even with a spread of 252 Hp/252 Def it still takes almost 50% from a Metagross Earthquake and is forced out by a lot of leads. Feigning Scarf against Azelf and Aerodactyl leads is fun, though. (I haven't seen too many of those unfortunately)
Machamp@Leftovers (Substitute/Dynamicpunch/Stone Edge/payback)
Machamp has been performing okay, it does a good job of luring in the opponents ghost types (though Heracross doesn't have much of a problem with them because I run Night Slash). I defiantly agree with sir_arthur that Restalk Machamp is a better idea here because Machamp does go down sooner than I'd like sometimes. I'm probably going to make that change now with my team with Dynamicpunch and Ice punch as my attacks because I've been seeing a hell of a lot more Gliscor for some reason.
Zapdos@Leftovers (Thunderbolt/Roost/Heat Wave/Thunder Wave)
With the team I'm currently running, Zapdos is pretty much my only defence against things like Lucario and Scizor and its been doing a pretty good job at keeping them at bay, but the Stealth Rock weakness really hinders him (I originally had U-turn on Jirachi but I switched to Wish for this very reason.) I've considered Rotom-A in this slot but lack on recovery outside of rest and the fact it can be easily pursuited by Tyranitar, especially when resting put me off. Thoughts on this?
Heracross@Flame Orb (Swords Dance/Night Slash/Facade/Close Combat)
Well, I don't really need to expain about this guy, but it does have a difficult time sweeping if I'm unable to paralyse the faster members of my opponents team (it's not always that simple!). Fortunately, it doesn't always need a Swords Dance boost to sweep though a weakened team thanks to Flame Orb + Guts.
Porygon2@Leftovers (Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Ice Beam/Recover)
Porygon2 is here to counter things that the rest of the team have trouble with: Gyarados, Jolteon, DD Salamence, Heatran etc. Not much else to say really, it helps spread paralysis and with decent special defence it can also do fairly well against the weaker special attackers (Tracing Magnet pull and killing off a Magnezone, for example. Since Magnezone has no recovery Porygon2 should come out on top if Magnezone lacks Toxic).
Latias@Life Orb (Grass Knot/Recover/Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power Fire)
Well, I noticed that someone said that this team needed a way to either lure or trap and kill Scizor a few pages back and I couldn't really see Magnezone fitting onto this team so I tried out this Latias that I saw in Jumpluff/EW's RMT and it has been working quite well Hidden power Fire is quite uncommon on Latias so Scizor often switches in to be Ohko'd, Tyranitar is a little harder to deal with if it's the Specially Bulky varient since it can survive a Dragon pulse + Grass Knot, the reason Grass Knot is used over Surf is because it deals slightly more damage to Tyranitar and it also maims Swampert who can be annoying when it comes in to absorb Thunder Waves.
So, that's the team and like I said it's been performing fairly well but there are a few pokemon that give the team a problem that I thought of off the top of my head.
Infernape - Latias is the team's only defence against Infernape. The rest of the team is either 1 or 2 hit Ko'd by Mixape and it's often paired up with either CB Scizor (deals a hefty amount with Bullet punch so it's still a threat even though I run Hp Fire) or Tyranitar who can survive a Dragon pulse + Grass Knot if it has a Specially Bulky Spread.
CB Scizor - Zapdos (and maybe Jirachi) are the only team members that will can really take U-turn and Zapdos is already losing 25% of its health every time it switches in. Latias does make a nice lure for it but it can still cause problems.
Specially Defensive CB Tyranitar - For the reasons mentioned above, Resttalk Machamp should help this though.
Starmie - Annoying because it can hit everything on the team hard. Latias can beat it if I can get her in on anything that isn't Ice Beam but she'll still take quite a bit of damage.
SubToxic Heatran - Hate this thing. Usually comes in on Zapdos and I can't Thunder Wave it because it's faster and can Substitute to Guard from Status. If I let it get a substitute up then I'm forced to let Porygon2 poisened. :(
Okay, well. Hopefully this will spark some discussion because this took quite a while to write :p. Thoughts?
Maybe Gravity on something but thats about it. This topic seemed interesting enough, but its not really going anywhere now...
Gravity is an interesting option, but I don't know where it would fit in with the team. What happened to this thread guys? Did the HGSS update drive everyone away from this? Either way, we really need to get this team finalized, as I would like to have the RMT up by the end of the month. :D
no one really takes electric attacks that well on the team though, as many will also carry HP ice... those with HP grass will be easy to wall, but where would you put CB Gyara?
we need someone to step up with a full RMT and we can work from there i think.
we need someone to step up with a full RMT and we can work from there i think.
This is kinda fizzling out so I'm just going to slap a deadline down (in accordance with justinawes intentions) of the end of the month. If it's not finished by then I'm going to lock it down. It was a nice idea and I think it deserved a fair shot so lets get something out there.
Also bringing attention to the fact that I've restored post 261 by AtheistCult. He posted it a few days ago but deleted it as he wanted to get more playtesting in before making such a post. It's a good post - that's what we need to see.
Also bringing attention to the fact that I've restored post 261 by AtheistCult. He posted it a few days ago but deleted it as he wanted to get more playtesting in before making such a post. It's a good post - that's what we need to see.
Justin asked me to play with the team and I used it for a few dozen matches on shoddy. Its a pretty good team, but I find myself overwhelmed by heavy special offense like Specs/LOtran, LOmie, mence and such. CB Scizor always tries to U-Turn/Pursuit on Latias and gets KOd by HP fire so I haven't found it to be a problem. I've never actually gotten more than 1 KO with Heracross though and I probably won like 70% of the time. The biggest problem is that it can't switch into much, its easily revenged and faints too early from burn/SS/SR damage. I tried using SD Empoleon over Porygon and its done pretty well also.
The RMT is now up - http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61788. Please move discussion on this team to that thread.
Thanks to everyone who was involved with this, it was interesting to overlook!
Thanks to everyone who was involved with this, it was interesting to overlook!
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