Metagame Convergence [(New Bans post #361)]

A few potential sweepers I came up with.

(This is my first time using this format so I don't know if these are very good)

Dragonite @ Throat Spray
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst (Noivern)
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost

It's funny how one move can turn Dragonite into a powerful special attacker.

Persian @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Facade
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn

So far I've only had success decimating a few Blisseys, I think this could be a good set

Beartic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

I've have pulled off a sweep or two with this because of the sheer force it provides.
 
Just got #1 on ladder, my team's not perfect but there's 2 sets I want to post here:

Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Jet Punch
- Recover
- Drain Punch/Substitute/Whatever

This set's pretty self-explanatory, it's a great wincon that also helps into the plethora of setup in the meta currently. Unaware's really useful both offensively and defensively, as it lets Dondozo brute force its way through defense boosts from opposing bulky setup like Gogoat. Tera Steel's really useful to take down Speed Boost Espeon and tanking hits from Grass types.

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rage Fist
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I haven't seen anyone run anything like this set, so I thought it was worth posting. You get Prankster from Riolu and Rage Fist from Primeape, slap it onto the fattest pure Fighting-type there is, and there we go. Behind screens Hariyama is near impossible to OHKO, letting you abuse Prankster RestTalk + Rage Fist to cheese through most teams that don't have a Normal type. Nothing too special about Tera Water, but it's tried and true from OU Annhilape's days.
1675302509316.png
 
This is a nice funky tauros no retreat set https://pokepast.es/4c4f3d94a9853661 . Tera ghost evades no retreat downside and gives it famously incredible stab on rage fist (from primeape) gunk shot (also from primeape) is cool incase a wigglytuff or a grass type appears. Ice punch or stone edge is another option for kilowattrel or the massive fan. Guts flame orb blocks status but intimidate is another option.
 
Notagamer said:
This is a nice funky tauros no retreat set https://pokepast.es/4c4f3d94a9853661 . Tera ghost evades no retreat downside and gives it famously incredible stab on rage fist (from primeape) gunk shot (also from primeape) is cool incase a wigglytuff or a grass type appears. Ice punch or stone edge is another option for kilowattrel or the massive fan. Guts flame orb blocks status but intimidate is another option.
Click to expand...
I was trying to combine this with Prankster Copycat (also gives priority to no retreat) but yeah guts flame orb is far more practical I reckon, lol.
 
Will espathra, rage fist, or quiver dance be looked at? I feel like out of the three, espathra is the one most deserving to go due the already skilless win con being even better due to bulkier psychic types.

Rage fist is another potential problem due to the bulk some mons provide (tauros and haryana mostly) which let them stack up even more boosts.

Quiver dance is mostly just annoying, but the pretty large pool of mons that get it along with with the supportive moves it gets can be a lot. I don't even thing the flying types are the best abusers, it's liligant with queenly majesty. That thing is built different
 
Staraptor @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Roost

A beast in my opinion, guts and roost from Squakabilly, the EVs could be improved


Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wish
- Teleport
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp / Nuzzle

Teleport ensures the safety of the wish reciever, and knock off and will o wisp/nuzzle punish pasive play and seriously harm sweepers. Scream is very passive, so beware
 
D34D_M4n14 said:
Will espathra, rage fist, or quiver dance be looked at? I feel like out of the three, espathra is the one most deserving to go due the already skilless win con being even better due to bulkier psychic types.

Rage fist is another potential problem due to the bulk some mons provide (tauros and hariyama mostly) which let them stack up even more boosts.

Quiver dance is mostly just annoying, but the pretty large pool of mons that get it along with with the supportive moves it gets can be a lot. I don't even thing the flying types are the best abusers, it's lilligant with queenly majesty. That thing is built different
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I think instead of talking about Espathra, we need to consider what we are really frustrated with: Speed Boost. That is the one option that it is currently providing teams. Several other pure psychic types have access to Calm Mind and Stored Power, but it is the speed on top of that which makes these sets oppressive.

I would argue we should look at that ability, rather than Espathra itself. It has another useful ability in Opportunist that could probably find some use if it wasn't overshadowed by Speed Boost, by far the superior ability to run.

As for Rage Fist, yes that appears to be a move that is quite imposing to deal with, especially when paired with No Retreat. Considering the ban on Last Respects, this move likely remained due to the lack of STAB without going into Tera-Ghost, unless you are Annihilape, who gets nothing new. Until Hisuian Zorark comes out, there is nothing that resists the combination of Rage Fist and a fighting-type move, usually Drain Punch, and this combo is as effective for fighting types here as it is for Annihilape in regular play.

As for Quiver Dance I will just say that I love the move, but I can see why the increased distribution may be frustrating for some people. As much as I love how the Oricorio forms get to pass on the move to Pokemon that could enjoy it (Rotom-Fan, Charizard, Drifblim), some offensive threats have emerged thanks to the move. Only time will tell if this will become dominant, but I think there are bigger threats than this move at this time.
 
I tried making a team yesterday... And my mind completely blanked. Is there a list of all the type combinations in Gen 9? Is there a way to search for single-typed Pokémon using the /ds command?
 
:ss/Espathra::kings-rock::ss/Dondozo:

Speed Boost, King's Rock and Dondozo have been banned from Convergence!
​

Welcome everyone! Now that Convergence has gotten a ladder, the player base has greatly expanded and we have been able to get auch better grasp on the current standings of our fledgling metagame. As such, a few notable problematic elements have so far reared their ugly head, and the council has convened to vote on their fate. Also, a formal welcome to Giagantic to our council team!

G-LukeTaplerKaenSoulkennukemGiagantic
Speed BoostBanBanBanBanBan
King's RockBanBanBanBanBan
DondozoBanBanBanBanBan
Extreme SpeedAbstainDo Not BanBanDo Not BanBan
PalafinDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not BanAbstainDo Not Ban
Rage FistAbstainDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not Ban
BarraskewdaDo Not BanAbstainDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not Ban
​
:ss/Espathra:
Speed Boost has quickly turned almost every single mono typed Psychic type into a death machine, snowballing VERY quickly with Speed Boost + Calm Mind. It caused every single team to run an Unaware Pokémon with the ability to Tera Dark, heavily restricting team builds. At first Espeon, the main abuser, was the topic of discussion, as it's stat distribution was seen as a direct upgrade to Espathra. But as time went on, users have gotten success with multiple different Pokémon to very similar degrees of centralization. Thus it was deemed that the ability itself was the root of the issue here and action was thus decided to be swiftly carried out.

:Kings-Rock:
King's Rock was simply deemed an uncompetitive aspect of our metagame, and with the distribution of Population Bomb, it became an unbearable method of playing requiring Helmets or Covert Cloaks on every defensive Pokémon less they wish to be flinched to death. Thus it was swiftly banned.

:ss/Dondozo:
Oh Dondozo. What can't you do? Dondozo was put up on the chopping block due to it's extremely warping hold it has in regards to physical attackers in the tier, and the wide variety of sets it has under it's belt. It's most common sets are physically defensive Regenerator sets, which basically blank every single physical Attacker and Unaware Bulk Up sets, which have the pleasure of reliable Recovery, a strong STAB priority option in Jet Punch, and heavy special defense investment making it very difficult to break through on both sides of the field. If that wasn't enough, multiple differing subsets, like Adaptability offensive sets utilitizing Dondozo's respectful Attack and undying bulk to be a powerful bulky wallbreaker or AV sets to fully take on special attackers. Often matches came down to who can get off a Bulk Up first with their Dondozo and in some cases losing your special breaker simply meant losing the game outright. We decided that these are enough grounds to have Dondozo banned from our metagame.

Tagging Kris to get these banned implemented on ladder, have a great weekend everybody!
 
Forget about Espeon as a Stored Power sweeper

:ss/Vaporeon:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware Shell Armor :chewtle:
Tera Type: Steel / Psychic / Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 8 SpA / 144 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Whirlpool :Alomomola: / Dazzling Gleam :lumineon: / Surf
- Acupressure :barraskewda:
- Roost :quaxwell:

This thing can boost way beyond Espeon can ever achieve, along with better bulk and defensive typing to easily set up even w/o screens.
Unaware makes it win a Stored Power war most of the time, as long as you get a spdef boost

+6 252+ SpA Espeon Stored Power (380 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 144+ SpD Unaware Tera Steel Vaporeon: 140-165 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I prefer Whirlpool as my coverage move to be able to set up freely vs some mons, and hits Dark types pretty well at +6
But a Tera fairy DGleam is always an option

Edit: wow just got that Unaware and Speed Boost ban so forget about this lol
 
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AIPS said:
Forget about Espeon as a Stored Power sweeper

:ss/Vaporeon:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware :dondozo:
Tera Type: Steel / Psychic / Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 8 SpA / 144 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Whirlpool :Alomomola: / Dazzling Gleam :lumineon: / Surf
- Acupressure :barraskewda:
- Roost :quaxwell:

This thing can boost way beyond Espeon can ever achieve, along with better bulk and defensive typing to easily set up even w/o screens.
Unaware makes it win a Stored Power war most of the time, as long as you get a spdef boost

+6 252+ SpA Espeon Stored Power (380 BP) vs. +2 252 HP / 144+ SpD Unaware Tera Steel Vaporeon: 140-165 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I prefer Whirlpool as my coverage move to be able to set up freely vs some mons, and hits Dark types pretty well at +6
But a Tera fairy DGleam is always an option

Edit: wow just got that Unaware and Speed Boost ban so forget about this lol
Click to expand...


Sorry to inform you, but Unaware can't be used due to Dondozo's ban
*Converge Clause - Prevents Pokémon from converging moves and abilities from banned and illegal Pokémon.
Click to expand...
 
AForgottenEvent said:
I'm testing a few gimmick sets and just had this happen: replay
On turn 23, why did Lycanroc's Anger Shell not activate? I've tested this with alts and couldn't get it to happen again.
Click to expand...
It was most likely Sheer Force Glaceon, SF moves break pass some abilities that require to be hit to trigger (Anger Shell, Berserk, Color Change, Emergency Exit, Pickpocket and Wimp Out)
 
[You awaken, the last thing you remember is entering the Dark Type Gym, your backpack has been emptied of its contents save for 3 pokeballs.]

"Hello Trainer."

[You turn around to face a the monitor that has just activated behind you.]

i-want-to-play-a-game-play-time-gif.489033

You pokemon trainers tend to make decisions some would call ... questionable. Make decisions based only on what you see with your eyes and not with your mind. You press a move and do not consider the consequences of your actions. You will ignore the fact that your opponent possess a feasible switch-in or another option that could easily put you and your pokemon in a bad position; throwing away your win condition. I feel you do not truly value the team of 6 that you call your "partners". It stands to reason that you like to gamble the lives of others when yours is not on the line. Well, trainer, I too like to gamble.

Within your head I have placed 2 ... insightful contraptions. If you wish to recieve the
tumblr_pr5j394Tla1up3upfo1_1280.png
gaze badge, you will need make your way through my gym and battle 3 other trainers who are also looking to recieve my badge. Your backpacks contain 3 pokeballs that hold the pokemon you shall use to defend yourself.

All of which are choiced-locked with pre-selected move pools consisting only of super effective or resisted attacks. They will all OHKO'D by super effective attacks and 3HKO'd by a resisted.

2 of which are dark types, which are immune to psychic, resist both itself and ghost.

:sv/zoroark: :sv/mabosstiff:

1 of which will be allowed to change their typing due to gen 9 standards and regulations.

It is up to you to decide whether to hit what is infront of you or what will be switching in. The door to my chamber requires you to have 3 victories to open. Succeed and you shall reclaim your pokemon, items, as well as face me in battle. Lose a battle and well I'd ... keep an eye out.

Will you see through the darkness that blinds you or forever see the dark? The timer is ticking. You have 15 seconds to make a move or lose by default. You have 15 minutes to reach my chamber. Good luck.
 

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this is an incredibly interesting meta! thats why instead of finishing my Book of Enigmas sub (check Pet Mods out ;D) I've stayed up all night theorymonnin' w my bf, and we've come up with all of this: (warning: long ass post)

:sv/bombirdier:
Bombirdier @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: ? who care, maybe dark?
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Haze
- Sucker Punch / Brave Bird
- Parting Shot / Stealth Rock / Taunt
- Roost
Haze, Prankster :murkrow:
This bird is the suboptimal user of this set, but it can use sucker punch more effectively than the superior option, even if thats the only advantage it has over it.

:sv/iron-jugulis:
Iron Jugulis @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: lol lmao
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD \\ 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot / Haze
- Taunt / Dark Pulse / Hurricane / Earth Power
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
Haze, Prankster :murkrow:
Parting Shot, Taunt, Stealth Rocks, etc. :bombirdier:
ah yes, the optimal user, with a much higher bulk, and the chance to not be almost entirely passive, this is an incredibly viable support that can either set hazards or disrupt, and even remove enemies occasionaly.

Iron Jugulis @ Heavy Duty Boots, Life Orb, Choice Specs
Ability: Rocky Payload
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot / Dark Pulse
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
- Hurricane
Power Gem, Rocky Payload :bombirdier:
what? 3 STABs but actually viable :0?

:ss/lycanroc::ss/lycanroc-dusk::sv/garganacl:
Lycanroc / Lycanroc-Dusk / Garganacl @ Choice Band / Scarf / AV
Ability: Rock Head / Tough Claws / No Guard / Anger Shell / Regen / Etc.
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe / whatever
Jolly Nature / whatever
- Head Smash / Stone Edge
- Wood Hammer / Knock Off / Salt Cure
- High Horsepower / Crabhammer
- Accelerock / Sucker Punch
Wood Hammer, Head Smash, Sucker Punch, Rock Head :Sudowoodo:
Crabhammer, High Horsepower, Knock Off, Regenerator, Anger Shell :klawf:
The Rocks stay winning! the plethora of tools all of the pure rocks present is simply astonishing, both lycanrocs (the third one is suboptimal despite being the coolest sorry) can effectively run both choice sets to incredible efficacy, and garg can not only sport the terrific regenvest thats been terrorising the ladder, it can also run CB No Guard / Tough Claws to delete otherwise checks!

:ss/gyarados:
Gyarados @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Dragon Dance
- Liquidation

Gyarados @ Assault Vest / HDB
Ability: Intimidate / Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Liquidation
- Knock Off / Roost
- U-turn
Brave Bird, Liquidation, Knock Off, U-Turn, Drizzle :pelipper:
The terror of the Fury Lake now get a way to show off its true power! between drizzle liquidation and BB shes capable of 2hkoing or even ohkoing most of the meta!
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Garganacl in Rain: 404-476 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Gyarados Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tablets of Ruin Brute Bonnet: 456-536 (107 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Gyarados Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 249-294 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO (still doesnt 2hko regen dondozo at +2 lmao)

:ss/goodra:
Goodra @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Draco Meteor
Sheer Force :bagon:
yeah, this is real. and I haven't seen it anywhere somehow. out of all things, BAGON gives beasts such as Goodra and Haxorus Sheer Force, turning them into, in this case, an incredibly bulky wallbreaker.

:ss/haxorus:
Haxorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Dragon Dance
- Iron Head
- Thunder Punch / Waterfall / Fire Fang? Rock Slide?
Rock Slide, Fire Fang, Sheer Force :bagon:
Waterfall, Dragon Rush :dragonair:
honestly might be one of the most terrifying sweepers in the tier, thunder punch 2hkos unaware dondozo ALWAYS (after rocks) didnt see the ban before posting X D

we got more ideas (Illusion Umbreon lmaoooooo) but the post is already too long lol, GL on the ladder!<3
 
Momblast said:
I was bored today and I haven't seen anyone else do this, so I decided to do it.

Here's a link to a Google Spreadsheet that shows a list of moves that pokemon of each type can use in Convergence.

As of 1/22/2023 I've finished the doc! It accounts for all pokemon currently coded into the game. Any pokemon that are not currently available, or any moves that are provided to the pool by banned pokemon, are crossed out (Slaking and Flutter Mane specifically have notes added to their moves, while the legendary Rhydons don't since they are the only pokemon of their type combinations).

Big thanks to Clastia who helped make this take a lot less time than it would have otherwise :)

(I've been updating this post as I worked on the doc but now that it's finished I deleted most of the fluff)
Click to expand...

ty for this, I made a site based off this spreadsheet to make it easier to search for moves, linked here

It only works with mon typing, move typing, move category, and move BP/accuracy/PP/priority right now so no searching by effects yet (except for recovery). Also probably doesn't play well with a bunch of people using it at once since idk much about webdev (chatGPT the mvp).

Please lmk if it's ever not working cuz that probably means I changed something and broke it
 
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Allllllrighty, you know the deal already, these sets are far from perfect but still vastly potent.

With the way stall has been running rampant(the bozo ban helps but still solid) offensive teams need ways to break stall. Here’s a few options!
Tauros-Paldea-Combat @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Drain Punch
- Rage Fist
With the tauros rage fists sets, not a lot of people realize riolu’s potency. Prankster taunt is one of the best ways to avoid status, and a priority bulk up can help live some serious threats. The investment can be traded out for a fast bulky set, but when everything’s bulky, you don’t need extra investment for speed. Only thing this set fears is prankster spiritomb.


Brute Bonnet @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Brave Nature
- Knock Off
- Flower Trick
- Synthesis
- Clear Smog
With knock off being so rare in sv, meowscarada getting both it and a way to deal significant damage is very good for your fav imposter. ToR is still amazing on it, since it becomes a significant wall, long enough to reset your stat changes.


Iron Jugulis @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Super Luck
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Cutter
- Dark Pulse
- Heat Wave/Hydro Pump

the only thing holding jugulis back was a lack of boosting. The Honchkrow line gives it this AND a better ability, allowing air cutter to crit 50% of the time. With water/fire coverage, it can be pretty scary. Feel free to mess with Tera type here.


Vespiquen @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Sticky Web
- Toxic/Defog
- U-turn

The bee is good. Intimidate+slow, bulky uturn is already good, but it also gets sticky web now! Toxic can help break down some problematic walls, defog can get rid of hazards yourself.

Might look into bruxish/veluza or glaceon, stay tuned for guts slither wing and other shit I don’t have access to on this device.
 
Why are moves that the Pokemon can't directly get, but a pre-evo can get due to the mechanic, unavailable for the evolved mons?

If this restriction were relaxed, this could allow for nifty combos, like:
  • :ceruledge: Pyro Ball, Wild Charge, Extreme Speed, Play Rough
  • :gholdengo: Shell Smash, Will-O-Wisp
  • :armarouge: Electro Ball, Eruption
  • :hatterene: Lumina Crash, Morning Sun
  • :sylveon: Boomburst
  • :gyarados: Wave Crash, Triple Dive, Jet Punch
  • :lokix: Fell Stinger
  • :lucario: Smart Strike
  • :pawmot: Volt Tackle
  • :drednaw: Ice Spinner, Wave Crash, Body Press
  • :coalossal: Salt Cure, Accelerock, Head Smash
  • :cloyster: Jet Punch
  • :flareon: Population Bomb? (could take advantage of Guts for this to work)
Here, I only covered moves because Abilities can't be passed on through evolution.

Additionally, no pure Normal-types get phazing moves, which would force a quickban for Komala (and/or Comatose).
 
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